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Join the Youthworks Ministry Support Team as they discuss how to have an effective youth and children’s ministry in every church in conversation with local ministry workers as well as national and international voices.
Get in touch - effectiveministrypodcast@youthworks.net
May: Welcome back to another episode
of the Effective Ministry podcast.
You're with Megan Gates,
and today I have with me-
You're not with Megan Gates.
Annemarie: No.
No.
I was like, "Really?"
Cam: I thought you just
forgot Anne-Marie's name.
I didn't even realize.
May: Well.
Cam: Who are
May: you?
It's Cindy.
Apparently I'm still Megan Gates.
Cam: I wrote that in an
email last week for you, so
May: Welcome back to another episode
of the Effective Ministry podcast.
You're with Megan Turner, and I'm one
of the children's ministry advisors
with Youthworx here in Sydney.
And today, I have another couple
of children's ministry advisors
on with me, talking about the new
curriculum called New Creation Kids.
I've got Anne-Marie Rivers
and Cam Hart with me.
Hey, guys.
Hello.
Hello.
Can you tell me a little bit about,
um, this new curriculum, and why
you guys decided to write it?
Cam: Uh, yes, I'd love to.
So we kinda started thinking
what is a curriculum?
Um, every children's ministry
has a curriculum they are using.
Uh, some of them are well
thought through and planned.
Um, some of us are kind of picking and
choosing as we go, um, a little bit.
Uh, but as we looked at the curriculum
that is being used, uh, in churches around
Sydney, uh, it's hard to find a curriculum
that aligns with, uh, the principles
that we see in what a good children's
ministry, uh, looks like and what it
involves, and the way and the style
that we teach and those kinds of things.
Uh, so that really set us on a journey,
um, to go what would it look like,
uh, if we were to put together a
curriculum, um, that is driven by what
we think best practice in children's
ministry, in, uh, teaching kids, in
training leaders, in engaging with
families in the local church looks like?
Uh, so that kinda set us up to start
thinking about, uh, what is a curriculum?
What would it look like?
How do we package one, um, up together
to give churches the resource, uh, to
disciple and teach the young people
in their churches, uh, in really
the most effective way that helps
them engage deeply, uh, with the
Bible, um, each week in their church.
May: Great.
So what is New Creation
Kids as a curriculum?
What can you expect?
Annemarie: Well, it's a three-year,
um, cycle, um, that takes, uh, kids
and their leaders and families through
the whole Bible story in that time.
It's subscription-based, so,
uh, kids minister can check out
the website, uh, look at all the
options, the overview, and then, um,
give logins to all their leaders.
Uh, yeah, designed for primary school, but
also with a preschool add-on, um, so that
it means- Mm ⦠from, right from sort of
three-year-olds up, uh, to the end of year
six and probably even beyond actually-
Yep ⦠if people wanted to use it.
Um, yeah, kids can be learning the
same thing and, and get that whole
Bible message in those three years.
May: That's brilliant.
So Cam, you were saying before that it's,
um, principle-led- Mm ⦠so you wanted
to think about the why behind why we do
things and how that informs what we do.
Um, what sort of principles are behind
the New Creation Kids curriculum?
Cam: Yeah, great.
So we have, um, seven principles as a
ministry support team, um, to say this is
what kind of effective good kids and youth
ministry looks like in the local church.
Uh, and there's a bunch of those that
kind of are informing- Mm ⦠uh,
how we think about, um, writing
and packaging up a curriculum.
Um, particularly, uh, there are four
of the seven principles that are kind
of driving, um, what we are doing here.
Uh, so principle one, um, is that
we will see young people engage in
the, in Bible-centered relational
discipleship with young people.
I think we're kind of
on common ground there.
So we actually just want young people in
relationships with their leaders, digging
deep into God's word together, um, making
it suit their group and their kids, uh, to
see them grow and engage with the Bible.
Annemarie: Oh, yeah.
Well, it's Bible-centered-
Mm-hmm ⦠which, I mean, sounds
really obvious, and of course that's
what lots of us are expecting to see.
Um- Mm ⦠but it's particularly obvious,
I think, in this content because we've
moved a whole lot of s- decision-making
around wha- what happens in a kids
program to, uh, the whole series level.
So what games you play, what
memory verse you do, and how
you do the memory verse, um, uh,
a few other things like that
are sort of decided at the
beginning of, of the series.
Yep.
Um, but then each week we really want
leaders just to be focusing on crafting
a teaching time around the Bible that
helps kids engage with it directly as much
as possible and in an interactive way.
Mm.
Um, and so all the preparation is
around, round the Bible message.
May: Sure.
So does that mean that
there's no sort ofâ¦
It's not theme-based and then you're
getting the Bible to fit into the theme?
Mm.
Does it have any themes to it?
You know, when I hear you say that, is
it sort of a dreary small group that just
looks directly at a Bible passage and-
Annemarie: They'd be
doing it very wrong if
May: yeah . Yeah, yeah.
Okay
. Cam: So yeah, so themes, um, but
themes that are driven from the pas-
the Bible book that we're looking at.
So kind of over the three years-
Sure ⦠um, yeah, as Emery mentioned,
they'll get through the whole Bible
story, but next year, so in the first
year, um, of this, they'll look at
Luke, Acts, Genesis, and Exodus.
Mm.
Uh, so term one we'll look at Luke.
Uh, you can't do all of Luke in 12
weeks, uh, but there's a particular
theme that we've picked up that
is kind of a narrative thread, uh,
driving through Luke, for example.
Mm.
So that's the theme of, uh,
Jesus coming to set people free.
Uh, so we're thinking a lot about what
sets us free, what are we set free
from, what does that mean that Jesus
has done to set us free from sin and
death and the consequences of that in
the world and all those types of things.
Um, so yes, there is a theme for each- Mm
um, kind of unit.
Uh, but each theme is kinda derived
from the Bible work that we have done-
Mm ⦠uh, to then package kind of
the unit together as a cohesive whole.
Annemarie: Sure.
Yeah, and I think also each, like each
unit and each week within- Mm ⦠that
unit is always thinking sort of in
a, with a biblical theology mindset.
Mm.
So keeping in mind the big picture of
the Bible and how it all fits together.
So I mean, it's very easy when we're
in Luke, um- Mm ⦠and even in Acts,
to be pointing and talking about Jesus
and keeping Him front and center.
But also, even when we're in Genesis and
Exodus, to be always looking forward.
How does this, how does this fit
with the big storyline of the Bible?
Mm.
That's another thing that we've, um,
yeah, really wanted to keep central.
May: Yep.
Mm, mm.
Great.
Um, and so I can see that you've also
thought about some more principles.
What are some of the other ones
Cam: that you've- Yeah.
Great.
So, um, principle two for us is that we
would see kids and youth ministries that
effectively partner with the home- Mm
um, as the primary place of discipleship,
and that's just a recognition that
God has so structured the world and
humanity, um, that parents and the
home kind of bear the kind of primary
responsibility of raising young people.
Mm.
Um, but they're also, we do, they
are to do that in partnership with
a local church, um, that parents
can't do it on their own, the
church can't do it on their own.
Yeah.
Uh, but together, uh, we would see young
people growing up as disciples of Jesus.
Um, and that just means that we just
wanna give churches the resources
that they need, uh, to be able to
disciple their, their kids well in
partnership with their families.
Uh, 'cause this is something
everyone struggles with.
Mm.
So there are very few churches
who we will have a conversation
with, and they just say, "We are
knocking this out of the park."
Mm-hmm.
Um, but as we've put together a
curriculum, uh, we wanna say we're not
just interested in kind of the Sunday
morning teaching experience for kids,
but how do we actually provide more of
a cohesive kind of package, um, that
actually resources parents and develops
that partnership, um, with them.
So, so some of the things they've
put together are things like kind
of weekly reading guides for kids,
discussion guides for families, parent
devotions, uh, for parents to read
along with what kids are learning.
Uh, there's gonna be kind of more
in that space, um, as, as we keep
developing this and as we hear from
churches and they start to share, as
people start to share with us, this
is something we would love to have.
Um, yeah, we would love to build this out
even more, um, than what it currently is.
Annemarie: Oh, that's- Yeah
⦠May: so exciting.
Annemarie: Yeah, I think we wanna
see, uh, leaders making choices-
Mm ⦠about what works in their context.
So like that's also why we're
not including a script actually
with, with the Bible teaching- Mm
preparation content, is because we
think that, uh, the best and most
faithful teaching is the one that's
coming from a disciple, uh, him or
herself who is growing and spending
time in God's word, and then knowing
their kids, um, and putting something
together based on their own time in God's
word and, um, with the input of that.
But that also feeds into the
family discipleship space.
Yep.
Mm.
So going, "Actually, I know the
parents in my space need this or that."
So there'll be, there will, as Cam
said, be a whole pile of resources
in that space, but we're not
expecting people to use everything.
Mm.
More just to make a choice based on what's
already, like already the communication
pathways happening in their context- Mm
and what parents are asking for.
Um, and so it's sort of a choose your
own adventure, but well-resourced.
Mm.
Instead of struggling with, oh, who's
doing what, and what could I possibly do?
It's actually, you've got a lot of
options- Got options ⦠and you can
choose and try things, and keep trying
things, um, and making this something
that is actually happening in an
ongoing and, you know, faithful basis.
May: Yeah.
Sure.
So one thing I just picked up on that
you just said, Anne Marie, was you
said something like, um, we don't
actually give the leaders a script.
Annemarie: Mm.
May: What can the leaders expect
then, and what's the thinking that's
gone into- Um, providing that and
not just handing leaders a script
Annemarie: Yeah.
Well, one of the really exciting
things about this content is that
we're using the LIT teaching target.
Uh, so that's a particular approach to
exegesis, to understanding a Bible passage
and, um, how to teach it faithfully.
And so leaders that are already
familiar with LIT have gone through
it or have been leaders there, um,
it'll be very familiar for them.
Um, but we want, um, yeah, we want them
to be able to look through that content.
We've already give them, given
them some content there for those
that are not familiar or don't
wanna just start from scratch.
Um, and then there's ideas about,
um, a clear, big idea, but also ideas
about how to teach that and ideas about
how to teach that in engaging ways.
So, um, so it's not just
stand and deliver- Mm
but actually things that help
kids participate and interact.
Um, there's discussion questions.
There's kind of all the pieces that you
need to put together a good teaching time.
May: Mm.
Annemarie: Um, more than you need really,
because we want them to make choices
based on the kids in front of them.
Um, making the best choice according
to whether you're teaching a
group of K to 2s or 3, 3 to 6s.
Mm.
Um, you'd choose according to knowing
your kids and what they're like.
Cam: Mm-hmm.
I think that, that kind of comes
also from, like, again, another
principle of ours- Mm ⦠which is we
actually want leaders being trained-
Trained ⦠in how they handle God's word.
Um, that we're not just imparting
kind of information to kids.
But part- Mm ⦠of what we do in kids
and youth ministry is we see leaders
trained and developed and equipped
and growing in kind of their skills,
their convictions, all of those things.
Uh, and so as they use this curriculum,
we're actually training them to
be better teachers of the Bible-
May: Mm
⦠Cam: and understanding God's word and
handling God's word faithfully in as
much as we're helping them have the
content to give and teach kids each week.
Uh, a big part of it is let's help
leaders grow and develop themselves
as they then go and teach, um, the
kids in their ministry each week.
Annemarie: Yeah, that's right.
'Cause if they are growing as a disciple,
then they can grow little disciples.
May: Mm, yep.
That's so helpful as well.
I think of my time in parish and
thinking about training up junior
leaders, and it does take a chunk of
time to do that and to do it well.
And so to have this, um, as something
that actually helps you- Mm ⦠to train
leaders, um, as well, it sounds amazing.
Cam: I think one other thing that's
worth kind of mentioning as part of
the curriculum package is- Mm ⦠uh,
we're planning to have a podcast episode
for every week of the curriculum.
So this is, again, in the
leader training, uh, space.
Mm.
Uh, we actually want leaders to be able to
listen to the Bible just get talked about.
So what are the conversations that are
being had as we open up Luke chapter four?
Like, what are the questions we have?
What are the kind of rabbit holes we might
chase, or, um, what are the things that
we notice that you can't always write
kind of on a page in a curriculum, uh,
but to be part of the conversation- Mm
and for leaders to be
able to listen in on that.
So that's kinda one part of what will
be the New Creation Kids podcast, and
then each episode will then also have
kind of a discussion around how might
we teach this part of the Bible to kids.
So just thinking through, you know, if
I've got a ministry of three kids, what
are some of the things I'm thinking about?
If I've got 40 kids, if I've got 100
kids over four different groups, uh,
what are some of the things that are part
of the discussion and decision process,
um, yeah, for leaders as they do that?
So the real hope is that leaders do
a lot of their preparation each week
by listening to a podcast episode,
uh, which will help them engage
with the Bible, think about how
they can engage and teach this with
kids, um, any coming week as well.
Annemarie: Mm.
Cam: Um, and part of all of this is
to really just help the children's
minister in the church- Uh, have the
time to do what only they can do.
Annemarie: Mm.
Cam: Uh, so one of the things that
we wanna do is give the local church
all the resources they need, uh,
so that the kids minister, the
volunteer, the leadership team, um,
they can do what only they can do.
So they can be in the church, meeting
with families, discipling kids, having
all of those great conversations.
So how do we give them all of the
resources they might need, uh, to do that?
Uh, to do the on-the-ground ministry work
of training leaders and discipling kids.
So we actually wanna have a whole
lot of other resources for the
kids minister, uh, to be freed up.
Um, so whether that's kind of annual
plans, whether it's templates for terms,
whether it's planning documents and
whatever else we might come up with.
Mm.
How do we just give people stuff,
um, so that they can do what only
they can do in the local church?
May: That's really helpful too,
'cause it sounds like it frees them
up for a lot of the relational- Yes
side of stuff particularly.
Like, you're not spending hours in
the holidays writing curriculum if
you've got something that you can
trust that's got everything you need.
Yeah, absolutely.
You're freed up.
You can meet with families during
the holidays- Yeah ⦠and yeah,
have those relational connections,
Cam: which is good.
Yeah.
And we can't come and meet with
every family in every church.
May: Mm.
Cam: But we can give you the resources
so that you can go and meet with
all the families in your church.
Annemarie: Yeah.
Brilliant.
I think one thing, though, is that, um,
the way that we've put this together, it
doesn't actually make it easy, though.
No.
Like, it doesn't make it easy for leaders.
It's not like a pick up and go kind of,
um, curriculum, but it's because we think
this is the best way to do kids ministry.
Yeah.
It's not ⦠Good ministry, faithful
teaching is never gonna be easy.
Um, but it does mean, again, people are
spending time doing what matters- Mm
which is like time in the Bible,
time thinking about how to teach it
clearly and age appropriately, um, to
the age group, the kids, specifically
those kids sitting in front of them.
May: Mm.
Annemarie: Um, like again, whether there's
three or 40 or- Mm ⦠or whatever it is.
And so I think that will sometimes
might be an uphill battle for some
places that are not used to this.
They're used to being given a
script or being able to just
pick it up on the morning.
May: Mm.
Annemarie: But we're actually
thinking that's not the best
way to do kids ministry.
Mm.
They are our littlest disciples, um,
members of our church family that
we need to look after and care for
by teaching faithfully and well.
Mm.
And so we want the leaders to be growing
as disciples, and we want them to be,
yeah, helping these little disciples grow.
Mm.
May: Um,
Annemarie: even though
it's not super easy.
May: Yeah, and that's really helpful
to know about the curriculum itself,
I guess, going in, so that if you're
a kids minister looking to transition
to this curriculum at some point-
Annemarie: Mm
May: um, being able to be there for
your leaders and help walk them through
the process the first couple of times
they do it, in particular, is going to
be really helpful, um, rather than just
assuming you can kind of dump it and run.
Yep.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
After we've just sort of
said it, it will free you up.
Maybe don't think it will
free you up straight away.
Um-
Annemarie: Well, again, it's freeing
them up to do what we want them- Exactly
⦠like, what most kids ministers want
to be doing anyway, which is actually
training their leaders and spending
time with their leaders- Mm ⦠and
also with families and kids and-
Yeah ⦠and all those relational bits
that just can't be done by anybody else.
May: Yeah.
Um, so, okay.
I've decided I'm going to use this
curriculum, New Creation Kids.
How, what has it got in it?
How do I know whether I
want to sort of jump all in?
Um, yeah, what can I expect, I guess,
from a unit of New Creation Kids?
Annemarie: Well, there's a whole
pile of stuff, but I would say
even before getting to that- Mm
um, that we do actually want
people to jump in for good-
Mm ⦠like for at least a year-
May: Mm
⦠Annemarie: because it actually
takes time to get used to using
new content, and especially the
way that this is put together.
It will take a little bit of time, and
there'll be good weeks and bad weeks-
Mm ⦠which is actually normal anyway.
But, um, yeah, just learning how to use
it well, um, and for the kids to get
used to it, like there's home reading
cards, as Cam mentioned earlier, in
the family discipleship side of things.
Um, like for kids to get used to taking
their card home, actually doing it and,
and talking about it the week after.
There's probably gonna be plenty
of weeks where they lose it and-
Mm-hmm ⦠or it gets forgotten orâ¦
So establishing a new
normal will take a while.
Mm.
So we're really hoping people will jump in
for a whole year and give it a good shot.
Cam: Mm.
Annemarie: But where do we start?
Yeah.
Cam: Uh, where do we start?
So yeah, the starting point
is really, what we've put
together is a online platform.
Annemarie: Mm.
Cam: Uh, so before anyone accesses any
particular lesson, um, the idea is that
this is a kind of digital online resource
for churches, uh, so that kids' ministers,
you're not having to kinda download the
200-page PDF of the curriculum for the
week, upload that somewhere else, cut it
up, make sure the leaders have all the
right access, and those types of things.
Um, but what a church gets is with
your one online subscription, um, to an
account, is you can add as many leaders as
you need to, uh, into kinda your platform.
So every leader, uh, in your kids'
ministry has their own login.
Um, you don't need to give them
anything other than access, and
then they can find everything they
need for any particular given week.
So that's kind of the starting point.
So every leader, own login, get
everything they need, uh, for their
teaching, uh, for the upcoming week.
Uh- But every unit, so there's unit
overviews, so if we're looking at
Luke, there's a big overview to Luke.
Uh, here's the kind of theology of Luke.
Here's how we're packaging up
the 12-week series of Luke.
So we kind of put 12-week series together.
Mm-hmm.
Um, the kind of aim for that is that it
would be in Australia world, um, that
we're in kind of 10-week school terms
most of the time- Mm-hmm ⦠couple
of weeks of school holidays.
Uh, but however you structure your kind
of leadership schedules, um, there's
no reason not to just keep teaching,
um, the same part of the Bible through
the holidays and through the year.
Um, so kind of 12 weeks, um, gets
us through, um, the main four units,
and then we have a kind of holiday
series and an advent series for
a coup- four weeks each as well.
Uh, but that's the intention.
Mm-hmm.
Um, kind of 12 weeks at a time.
Um, in that kind of unit level,
uh, there's a whole lot of m- game
suggestions, song lists, uh, activities
to use over that 12-week block, uh,
memory verses and ways to teach our kids
and help them remember memory verses.
Uh, but all of that kind of sits in
the unit level before- Mm-hmm ⦠we
get into e- each individual week.
So we're making all of those
decisions, uh, like Anne-Marie said,
at the start of a kind of unit.
Go, what are the games we're gonna do?
What are the songs we're gonna sing?
What are the activities we're gonna do?
How are we gonna help our leaders engage
with this over the next block of time?
And then once we do that, we then jump
into, um, what each week looks like.
Annemarie: Yep And so i- for each week
of the content, there's a clear big idea.
Um, and this has been particularly
designed for primary age
kids, but can we adapt that?
Yep, definitely.
Like again, at all levels, we're sort of
giving leaders the pieces to put together.
Um, but all of, all of the
different components are hopefully
teaching that one clear big idea.
Mm.
Um, there's Bible reading cards.
Uh, so there's two per week, and this
is aimed at helping kids read ahead
a little bit so that they're reading
with their families what they're
going to learn about the coming
Sunday, but also the in-between bits.
So like, um, as Cam said, we
can't do all of Luke in 12 weeks.
Mm.
And so you get to read a little
bit of the bits that are not
covered in the weekly content.
Um, and that, I mean, those could
be used in a whole variety of ways.
Like for younger kids, then
they're probably doing it
with a parent or with family.
May: Mm.
Annemarie: But for upper primary, we
really hope that they're, the kids
are sort of starting to develop their
own Bible reading habits of reading
the Bible directly for themselves
and having a go at the question.
Mm.
And then being able to come back
to their leaders on a Sunday and
go, "Oh yeah, I found this out."
Mm.
Um, and to be able to celebrate that
together and have that accountability and
that encouragement to keep going with it.
May: Howâ¦
Can I just ask how specific
they are in regards to needing
a particular translation?
Mm.
Like, are you expecting that
the kids are gonna have a CEV
or a Jesus Storybook Bible,
Annemarie: or?
Great question.
Uh, we've based it on the NIV.
Sure.
Um, and there are places where we might
recommend having a look at the NIV.
Um, but like, you could actually
use it with any- Yep ⦠of
those good translations.
May: Mm.
Okay.
So you don't have to have a
particular one to use it at
Cam: home, I guess is what I'm thinking.
No.
Kids reading the Bible, I don't really
mind what translation they're using.
Yeah, yeah.
We wanna encourage kids to
be developing that habit.
Mm.
So what do you use at church each week?
Get kids reading that at home.
If kids have a different
one at home, great.
Yeah.
Just kids and the Bible
is kind of the goal- Yeah
in this space.
Annemarie: Yep.
Great.
Yeah, definitely.
And I think like, you know, the,
the decision really was ESV or NIV.
Mm.
Um, but we found that NIV is
generally a little bit more
accessible for primary age kids.
Yep.
It's just a, that little bit
easier to read and flows better,
um- Mm ⦠and still a really
accurate and helpful translation.
Cam: Yep, absolutely.
May: Yeah, sure.
Just yeah, mostly asking 'cause sometimes,
you know- Mm ⦠those questions are
like, what does this particular word mean?
And that particular word
isn't in the translation-
Mm ⦠you happen to be reading.
Um, but if it's not that
specific, then that's helpful.
Annemarie: Yeah, no, we're
helping ⦠Like, the questions
are generally designed to help kids
just engage with the content- Mm
at a fairly s- simple level, um, without
the big theological questions that they
might wrestle with in the group time.
But the home reading is really just
designed to help them just, just get into
the habit of reading- Mm ⦠and thinking
about the content in a way, um, that
makes it practical and personal for them.
Mm.
Cam: Yep.
Annemarie: Great.
Cam: Uh, so we've done all that prep work,
and then we finally get to a week program.
Uh, and the curriculum is kind of
really structured in three sections.
Uh, so any kind of week,
um, that you would look at,
there'd be a launch activity.
Uh, so in the curriculum itself,
there'll be a few suggestions here.
It's kind of choose one.
Uh, a launch activity to help the
kids, uh, connect from where they
are at the moment, um, to move into
the world of the Bible story and make
that initial connection, so launching,
um, into the lesson for the week.
Annemarie: And that content too can
also be used, uh, in different ways.
So there's, uh, always at least two
suggestions for that launch activity.
Um, so some churches might have a
kids spot in their service before the
kids go out or something like that.
Mm.
Mm.
Or they might have a big group
time, like with all of preschool
to year six together before they
then separate into smaller groups.
Yep.
And that launch activity could be
used in those settings as well.
Yes.
Mm.
So really, again, adaptable.
Some of them are very much designed so
that there might be a couple of kids
engaged or kids involved at a group level.
Um, so it would work with bigger
groups, and then other ones are
more, um, yeah, designed to suit
smaller groups- Mm ⦠where every
kid might have a go at something.
Mm.
And so again, the aim of that section is
just to connect, to make that connection
between what they already know, um, at
some level, whether it's a feeling or
experience or, um, knowledge in some
area, but where we're gonna go with the-
Cam: Mm
⦠Annemarie: what the Bible is teaching
in that- Mm ⦠particular week.
Great.
Cam: Great.
So we launch, and then we get into our
teach or engage section, uh, which is
really where we want kids in the Bible.
Mm.
Uh, so for this section, um,
we'll have our kind of big idea.
Uh, in here there are a few kind of dot
points for leaders as they prepare that-
And then from there, we get into
kind of the teach, uh, section, where
this is where you really want kids
and leaders engaging with the Bible.
Uh, so first off, there'll be a
little section called the big idea.
So this is a set of kind of dot
points, um, for leaders as they
think about their preparation.
Uh, so this could be, you know, as you
prepare to teach in a large group setting
or with a small group of kids, like watch
out for this, or make sure you highlight
this point, or use a particular personal
example, um, or story to illustrate this.
Uh, then from there, um, we flow into kind
of the engage section, uh, which is, yeah,
working through how do we teach the Bible
in a, a way that kids are engaged with.
Um, they're interacting
with the Bible story.
They're thinking deeply
about it for themselves.
And with that, there's a bunch of visual
aids that are provided, uh, suggestions
about how you might do that, uh, well
with your particular group of kids.
Now again, bit of a
choose-your-own-adventure here.
Mm.
We'll give you as much scaffolding
as we can with here are some
ideas, here are the few different
ways you might wanna go about it.
But the goal is leaders are then making
the decisions to think, "How will I
teach this to this group of kids in
the most engaging and effective way?"
Annemarie: Yeah, that's right.
Mm.
And they, there are definitely
options in those sections.
Mm.
So it's kind of like, um, you could
do it this way, or you could do it
this way, or you could design your
teaching time around these three
points, or you could choose to useâ¦
Like in some cases, there is
actually a drama script provided- Mm
or other things.
But the other thing which
I keep overlooking is, um,
there's lots of pictures.
May: Mm.
Annemarie: Mm.
So for every single week, I know that's
sometimes a really big thing for leaders,
is they just don't have enough pictures.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, for every single week of this
curriculum- Mm ⦠there is, um, a series
of pictures which are provided as, um,
JPEGs, so they can be shown on a screen
or printed out, or like w- I used to print
out in A3 for my preschool groups- Mm.
Mm ⦠and laminate them and
make- Great ⦠nice big books.
Like however they- Mm ⦠need to be
used, um, there's plenty of pictures.
Cam: And then final section, uh,
for our kind of main teaching time
is we actually want to help leaders
apply the Bible, um, with their kids.
So we're thinking through, uh, the model
of how does what we've looked at affect
my head, what I think, my heart, what
I feel, and my hands, what do I do?
Uh, and so for each kind of teaching
time, uh, there'll be some ideas
to go how will this apply to the
young people, I mean, your church?
Now again, as we've written a
curriculum, we don't know the
young people in your church.
Mm.
Uh, so these are very much suggestions
to get leaders thinking about
how will this apply, uh, because
we- application can't be generic.
May: Mm.
Cam: Um, application matters for
the particular kids that are sitting
in front of you on any given week.
Um, but there is a kind of framework
to think through how do we apply
what we have looked at, um, to
the kids in our group each week.
Annemarie: Yeah, that's right.
And it- it's also a helpful guide to
avoid- Mm ⦠some of the mistakes that
are sometimes present in especially older
style, um, kids church curriculums, which
can tend to be a little bit moralistic.
Mm.
Mm.
Um, it's like we've really
tried to be very explicit about
avoiding those mistakes of- Mm.
Mm ⦠like let's lift our eyes to go,
yes, Jesus is, um, our Lord and Savior,
and we can always come back to Him.
Um, looking for the grace in stories,
looking for, yeah, all the ways in which
we can, um, motivate- Uh, from the gospel.
Mm.
Like from seeing what God has done and
His promises kept and His big salvation
plan across all of the scriptures.
Um, and the other thing is in that apply
section there's discussion questions.
Um, so there's, uh, four
different categories actually-
Mm ⦠of discussion questions.
Um, and we're suggesting that
leaders choose from those, uh,
four categories, the number
according to what suits their group.
So if they have, you know, 20 minutes,
they might need four to six questions.
Um, but if they've only got 10 minutes,
they might only choose one or two
or- Mm ⦠or something like that.
But the four categories look at context,
uh, so particularly revision, how
does this connect with other things?
The second category is understanding.
So this is sometimes where we might
do most of our questions around
comprehension, but we've deliberately
tried to not just have comprehension
questions- Mm ⦠like we want
discussion time to be more than that.
May: Mm.
Annemarie: Uh, there's big idea questions
which help kids grapple a bit more with
the big concepts and the main point,
and then there's application questions.
And so again, we're hoping that leaders,
like, look through those and choose
the ones that will suit the age and the
stage of th- those kids in their group.
And it also includes a lot of,
um, sort of more interactive ones.
It's not all just talk.
Uh, leader asks, kids answer-
Mm ⦠right or wrong.
It's more like, you could draw a map
or create a comic strip, or let's p- do
some kind of more interactive activity
that helps them engage directly with the
content, but in a way that helps them,
you know, uh, revise what they know or
d- dive into the deep understanding of
what's going on in the passage, or think
about what or how it applies to them.
May: Mm.
So the flexible nature of this is,
um, making me think that it's really
helpful when people are thinking
through, um, neurodivergence as well
in their groups, um, and just thinking
through different personalities and
multiple intelligences and all of
those kinds of things that impact the
different way that God has created us.
Um- Mm ⦠it might also be a little
bit daunting- Yes ⦠for people.
Um, so do you have any advice for
those of us who might be thinking,
"Wow, this is so flexible," like, is
it gonna be tricky for me to jump in?
Is there support?
What does it look like on that side?
Cam: Um, yeah, lots of support.
So we wanna give, um, yeah, leaders as
much as we can to help them to do this.
Mm.
So whether it's templates, whether it's
⦠There'll be a series of videos about
how to engage with this, how to use it.
Great.
Um, and yeah, really just to go, how do we
give them everything they need- Mm ⦠uh,
so that they can do what only they can do?
So I think it just comes back
again to that conviction, um, that
leaders who are knowing the kids
they are leading each week- Mm
and doing the hard work in the Bible,
um, is going to set them up for an
excellent conversation around who Jesus
is and what it means to follow Him.
Uh, 'cause that's what the
whole point of a curriculum is.
Um, it's, the point isn't to
work through a curriculum.
Uh, the point is to help kids engage with
Jesus and think about what does it mean to
live a life of discipleship following Him.
Uh, so for every um, discussion question
or teaching activity suggestion or
launch activity or anything, anything
that's in the curriculum, the goal
isn't that you do the curriculum.
Mm.
The goal is that you help kids engage with
Jesus and think about following Him well.
Um- Yeah ⦠so that's, that's the point.
So yes, flexible, kind of daunting,
but also hopefully a little freeing-
Mm ⦠to go, I don't have to
follow the blueprint script here.
I've got everything I need to
help my kids and me have a great
conversation about Jesus this week.
Annemarie: Yeah, that's right.
And I think, like, it's kids ministry-
Mm ⦠so it's gonna be a bit messy.
Mm.
And that's actually part of the joy
of it- Mm ⦠is some weeks you'll
go, "Oh, wow, that was excellent," and
other weeks it'll be like, "Oh, I'm not
really sure if that was exactly right."
But, like, hopefully all of our leaders,
all of the leaders who'll be using this
will be doing that in a team context.
Mm.
And so work together.
Like, work with your, um, other leaders
and, and have conversations about it.
I think sometimes we make the mistake
of thinking, oh, well, I'm on next
week, so I have to do all the work.
Mm.
But help each other.
Mm.
Have a conversation.
And we're kind of hoping that's also how
the podcast functions- Mm ⦠is just as
an encouragement that you're not alone
in this, and you can, like, get some
inspiration and encouragement by listening
to that and, um, yeah, hearing how other
kids ministers think about passages or
think about things that they'll try.
May: Mm.
Um, do you guys have a particular
favorite part or favorite,
um, unit or favorite lesson?
Like, is there one that as, as it
was being written you kind of thought
Cam: Yeah, term for me- Yeah ⦠uh,
term four of volume three is what
I'm looking forward to, so that's
a couple of years away for us.
May: Okay.
Cam: Uh, but when we get
there, um, I'm really excited.
When we get to year three, uh, volume
three of this, uh, we'll be kind of
in the Old Testament period of the
exile and the kind of post-exilic
period, uh, which I personally think
that's a bit of a black hole in our-
Mm-hmm ⦠kids' ministry teaching.
Um, we, we aren't great at helping
kids think about this mysterious
exile that happened, and then what
did it mean when they came back.
Mm.
Um, because that's the world
that Jesus shows up into.
Annemarie: Mm.
Cam: Um, he shows up into that post-exile,
what is the hope of God's people?
Um, so I'm kinda living hopefully,
um, that in a couple of years' time
as kids engage with that part of the
scripture, uh, we will kind of lift
their eyes a bit to see a bit more
of God's story, um, through history.
But it'll also help kids really understand
who Jesus was, the world Jesus comes into,
um, and yeah, their place as young people
following him, um, when that's the, that's
the part of history Jesus showed up in.
So my hope is a couple of years away,
but I'm really looking forward to it.
Annemarie: Yeah.
I think Iâ¦
Oh, it's so hard to pick, but, um,
I really loved the Acts series- Mm
which is, um, yeah, in year one,
that's, uh, second term if you're
following- Mm ⦠an Australian pattern.
But yeah, Acts is another area
where, like, we sometimes do the
first half or the first little
bit, and then we don't do the rest.
Mm.
But actually seeing how that
whole book fits together and
how God's at work, it's, yeah.
I mean, it's really hard 'cause I also
love Genesis, and I also love Exodus.
And it's just so much fun.
There's so much good stuff.
Um, but yeah, Acts is
one of the good ones.
Cam: Mm.
May: Mm.
Um, so there obviously is a particular
plan and structure to how you guys
have- Mm ⦠um, planned this curriculum
and at least the rollout of it.
Um, what's the thinking
around the structure?
Like, you're saying sort of it fits
with the Australian kind of structure
of four terms across a year, um, when
you're thinking about it like that.
But is there anything else that's-
Mm ⦠spoken into why you started
where you started, where things
lead to seasons, any of that?
Cam: Yeah, great.
Um, yeah, so as we thought through,
um, how do you build a kinda scope and
sequence for a kids' ministry curriculum,
uh, we kinda landed on a three-year cycle,
um, to really say over the three years,
that's enough of a repetition, uh, for
kids in our ministry, uh, not necessarily
to be doing the same unit again, but to
be getting the whole story of the Bible.
Mm.
So for someone in preschool, as they
go through kids' ministry, if they
follow this, they'll kinda do the
whole story of the Bible two, three
times, um, as they move through
a church's children's ministry.
Mm.
Um, so that's kinda the first peg in
the ground, is to go three years is
a pretty good, um, length of time to
then come back and, um, yeah, go back
into the parts we looked at previously.
Mm.
Our second part of that
is to go- Over a year.
Um, we decided that it was b- It
would work well to break up, um,
the year into kinda two halves.
Um, so to be able to go first half of
the year, um, let's spend that in the
New Testament, um, or a kind of a topic
kind of series, uh, the second half
of the year to do the Old Testament.
That works well, um, as you think
about the Old Testament series,
kinda six units works pretty well
to cover that, um, whole narrative.
Um, so that kinda gets us six
units over the three years.
Um, start of the year we'll
always do a gospel in term one.
Uh, and that just fits pretty well in
the rhythms of a, of a year with the
other kind of seasons around churches.
So we'll do a gospel that'll mostly
take us from kinda Christmas to Easter.
The life of Jesus, uh, fits well there.
Uh, second term, um, in
volume one we'll do Acts.
Um, volume two we'll do
like a biblical theology.
Volume three in term two we'll
do an epistle, so we'll just get
kids reading an epistle together.
Uh, and then, um, in the Old
Testament series we'll kinda cover
two units of the Old Testament.
So, uh, next year in volume one
we'll do Genesis and Exodus.
Mm-hmm.
The following year we'll pick up kind of
the Judges through to the Samuel books.
Uh, and then like I said, in term three,
or, uh, in volume three, uh, we'll pick up
the kind of exile, post-exile, um, period
of the kings and those types of things.
And the hope is that over that
time kids are picking up the
whole narrative of the Bible.
May: Mm-hmm.
Cam: Um, but then when they come
back to year one again, um, they'll
be back into the Gospel of Luke.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but it'll be a different kind of
type of working through Luke together.
So it's not just a, "Oh, once
we've done the three years we don't
need New Creation kids anymore."
Um, we'll- Mm ⦠be back in Luke,
but we'll be doing Luke in a new,
engaging way, um, as we kinda come
back into the fourth year through.
Annemarie: Yeah, that's right, 'cause
we really wanna make sure that kids
cover the basics- Mm ⦠enough.
Like, we don't want kids to get
to, um, to have been in kids church
for like three or four years and
have never heard the Exodus story.
Yep.
Or never read about Adam and Eve.
Like, that's what we're
really trying to avoid.
Mm.
Um, yeah.
Mm.
May: Yeah, and I guess if, if I'm five-
Mm ⦠if I'm a kid and I'm five and we're
starting in Luke, then we won't get back
around to Luke until I'm, what's that,
nine, because it'll be in the- Yep ⦠the
fourth year that we are back into Luke.
Yep.
Um, and that will look very different
even in the way that- Mm ⦠the
leaders are approaching teaching.
Yeah,
Cam: everything's changed by then.
So- Like, history moves so fast.
Yeah.
The kids are different.
The leaders are different.
Yeah.
The world is different.
Mm.
Um, and so we need to engage with
the Bible and apply it in a new way.
Mm.
And the other thing that's worth noting
here is there's a question that, or
people often ask is, what if my church
follows what the adults are preaching?
Mm.
Uh, and this is, what we're coming from
is a conviction that let's give kids a
foundational understanding and knowledge
of the whole sweep of the Bible narrative,
um, as they go through our kids ministry.
Um, and that's a, a recognition that
kids and adults, they need a different
kinda timeframe on some of this stuff.
Uh, so a kids' ministry curriculum
could kind of roll around every three
years but three years is probably pretty
quick for an adult preaching program
Annemarie: Mm.
Cam: So as a, a senior pastor or someone
planning the preaching program in a
church, um, they might be working on a
six, eight, 10-year kind of program- Mm
to go, what are the things we're
gonna preach- Mm ⦠over the
next five, eight, 10 years?
Whereas in kids ministry, uh, we feel
we need, you need to go a bit quicker-
Annemarie: Mm
⦠Cam: um, than that, and how do we actually
help kids see the narrative of the Bible
in a developmentally appropriate way for
them as they grow up, um, in our church?
Annemarie: Mm.
Yeah, and I think too, like sometimes,
like I've done this when I was in
parish ministry- Mm ⦠like followed
the sermon series, and part of my
motivation at that point was I want
to help families- Mm ⦠have those
conversations when they go home.
Like, that's a big part of
why people do that, I think.
Yep.
Um, but I think by itself it doesn't
actually achieve that purpose.
May: Mm.
Annemarie: Um, like there actually needs
to be more in place for home discipleship
to be, um, kicked off or to be sustained.
If they're not doing it already in
their own steam, then just having
the sermon series match- Mm ⦠the
kids program is not enough.
Um, and so again, why we included so much
family discipleship in this curriculum
is to support that and make it normal
and part of what's sustainable- Mm.
Mm ⦠um, in a way that means parents
can still have those conversations and
do have something to bounce off, um, but
kids are also getting what they need.
Mm.
Um, they, they're getting all those
key ideas and the key teaching, um,
and not aging out without hearing
some of the really core stuff.
Mm.
Cam: Yeah, and the, the other part
of that is to say there's nothing to
stop a church's preaching program kind
of aligning at moments with what- Mm
kids ministry is doing.
So even the last month I've had
conversations with senior ministers who
have said, "Can I, can I get a copy of
the three-year scope and sequence so
that I can know that, you know, in term 3
2027 our kids are gonna be doing Genesis?
We were thinking of doing
Genesis at some stage soon.
Let's do it in term three next year."
Yeah.
So kind of not retrofitting the kids
ministry curriculum to follow the
adults, but actually thinking about
how might the adults' curriculum
in their preaching program-
May: Mm
⦠Cam: align with what's
happening in kids ministry.
Now, you're not gonna
do that every term- Mm
but to think through over the years,
you know, when are kids doing John?
Well, let's do John in church if
we're doing a gospel that year.
Yeah.
Um, so there's some way you can
work both ways at that point.
May: Yeah, that'd be so great.
Cam: Yeah.
May: So encouraging.
Cam: It is.
May: Um, so this new curriculum-
Cam: Mm
⦠May: it's brand new.
How can I trust it?
Annemarie: Yeah, great question.
May: I mean, it's, it's a hard question
to ask you guys 'cause you wrote it.
Yeah.
So of course you trust it.
Well, we think it's great.
But yeah, exactly.
Um, objectively though- Mm ⦠have you
got any other feedback or, like, other
eyes that have- Mm ⦠been in on it?
What's-
Annemarie: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, definitely.
Um, it's gone through
quite a few hoops actually.
Uh, so, um, it has taken a few
years to get to this point.
Mm.
Like, we have done a lot of tweaking
around exactly what's included and
what's not, and all those things.
Um, it has been trialed by a, a
variety of churches, um, both in
their Friday afternoon groups and
their Sunday morning programs.
Um, churches of different sizes,
um, and different kind of, yeah,
skill levels of their leaders- Mm
and that sort of thing.
Um, and we also have
our theological editors.
So, like, this is something we were really
excited about- Mm ⦠actually, is to
get, um, really the people that are even
more qualified than us, um, like the PhDs,
uh, the, you know, the college lecturers
to, to go through- Mm ⦠the content.
Um, and that was actually a
fantastically encouraging process.
Um, so we've had, um, yeah,
a Moore College lecturer-
Yep ⦠an, an SMBC lecturer.
Um, at the moment, Andrew Spalding
from Youthworks College is, is
going through the Genesis content.
Um, and they've just provided
really helpful, um, encouragement-
Mm ⦠and just little tweaks
to help us be really sharp.
Um, and it's also just a
comfort for us to know that- Mm
we've had that level of, um, scrutiny
on the content so it can be trusted.
Cam: Yep.
. May: Um, so just going back to what you
were saying before about having, you
know, particular years- Yeah ⦠and
the way the curriculum's written is
based off sort of starting with Luke
s- Luke and then going to Acts- Mm
and then Genesis, Exodus.
For next year, for instance, does that
mean that anyone who starts using New
Creation Kids next year is going to be-
Mm ⦠using the same stuff so that,
you know, if I know someone across
Sydney that's using it, I can just
be chatting with them about things?
What does that look like?
Yeah.
Cam: Yeah.
So that's the plan.
So the intention for the
curriculum is you kind of follow
the order, um, that we go in.
Now there's no kind of requirement
that someone does that.
Mm.
Um, but if you wanna do Genesis
and Exodus in the first half
of the year, kinda go nuts.
Um, that's fine.
Uh, but yeah, the plan is that if
people are using New Creation Kids
next year, uh, term one, uh, most
of the churches who are using this,
we're all teaching Luke together.
Uh, so I'm actually excited
about what that might look like
to, yeah, help churches just
work together a little bit more.
Um, a whole lot of collaboration,
community around this, um, can get built.
Um, it's a big kind of open-ended
question of what that looks like.
Um- Mm ⦠but it does mean that
hopefully, uh, there's a whole lot
of churches are all teaching the same
part of the Bible, um, each kinda term.
I mean, they're churches.
Uh, and there can, there might be
a whole lot of flow on effects from
that, whether it's leaders talking
together, uh, whether it's just kids
ministers chatting to one another.
Okay, here's what we're doing
with Luke, um, what are you doing?
Whether it's training leaders, so
there might be four or five churches
in the same geographic area- Mm
and you're all about to
teach Acts in term two.
Um, what does it look like to get
together and together train your
leaders, uh, in the next series of
Acts together or something like that?
So, um, yeah, there's-
Annemarie: Mm
⦠Cam: opportunity there, I think that
this type of thing, um, creates.
And it also means that if your, you
know, your church isn't near anyone else
who's doing the same thing, um, there's
actually still other people kind of in
the country or somewhere close by that
are a phone call or a conversation away,
or whether it's creating some discussion
forums or whatever it might be, um, yeah,
that, that you're not on your own, um,
as you use this, um, in your church.
Annemarie: Mm.
Yeah, and it was encouraging actually- Mm
⦠even with the churches that trialed, uh,
the Luke series, um, as they shared, like
how it went- Mm ⦠with them, um, for
them to hear each other's encouragements
and see the- Mm ⦠pictures.
Like one leader brought in
pictures of all, all the work
that their kids had done.
Um, and it was just,
yeah, really encouraging.
Mm.
So we're hoping that's the kind of
community we can create around it.
May: Yeah, that's really interesting.
I wonder if they'll end up being sort
of cohorts of people that use it-
Mm ⦠one year and then start the next.
I'm just thinking through, like in my
region down in Wollongong, there's a
lot of sharing of giant resources- Mm
that people might use once a year or
for an assembly or something, um, and
then they pass it on the next year.
Yep.
I imagine a similar thing could
be done- Mm ⦠when it comes to,
like, blowing things up and yeah,
um, what that could look like.
Cam: Yes.
We are very open to lots of these ideas-
May: Yeah.
About
Cam: what that could be like.
May: Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
Awesome.
All right.
So you were talking before,
how do people access this?
Mm.
It's through an online subscription.
Yep.
Um, it's ready to go for next year.
Cam: Yep.
May: If people are keen,
they can just sign up online?
Do they need to contact us as advisors?
Cam: No, no need to contact us, even
though we'd love to talk to you about it.
We would love to chat.
Um, if you have questions, um,
yeah, please, like, reach out to
us at the ministry support team.
Uh, but online there's a website
there now, newcreationkids.org.
Uh, that's kind of a landing and
information page at the moment.
So you could go there and download
a sample of some of the lessons,
uh, get a bit more of an overview,
um, of what the curriculum involves
and all of those types of things.
Mm.
Great.
Um, our launch date is the 2nd of
November, is that's what we're working
towards, to have kind of the whole site
live where people can then kind of log
in and preview, um, what they will see.
You can sign up for next year
and all those types of things.
So, um, yeah, 2nd of November,
2026 is when we're hoping that
the actual site goes live.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but for now, you can still
go to newcreationkids.org,
uh, and yeah, download samples
and get a picture of, um, what
the curriculum will look like.
Annemarie: And if you are in, um, in
Sydney and have a regional advisor-
Mm ⦠whether you're Anglican or not,
uh, we're very happy to chat about it.
Mm.
Um, so yeah, we're around.
May: Mm.
Annemarie: Um, and there, there will
be the New Creation Kids podcast coming
out soon, and so you can check that out.
Mm.
That'll just be another free
podcast, um, as well as available
through the, um, website.
Mm.
Um, but it also will, you'll
see a bit more if you're in the
training ministry team space.
Mm.
So, um, w- that's one
thing we didn't men- Yep
mention actually, but the LAT teaching
target that we talked about, that's
also integrated into our training.
And so if you're using training ministry
teams to train your leaders, then this
new curriculum is gonna align with that.
Cam: Mm.
Annemarie: Um, but also we're
hoping to give discounts.
Cam: Yep.
Hopefully.
Annemarie: Yeah.
Cam: Uh, and the last thing I'll say,
if you're not sure who to reach out to,
actually on the New Creation Kids website-
Annemarie: Yeah
Cam: um, there's a button you can
click just to book a call, and that'll
just book a call with one of us.
Uh, just a kind of online kind of
quick catch up, um, that'll just
fi- you find a time in your calendar
that works for us, and we will be
l- happy to jump online and chat.
So, um, that's one way.
If you're not sure who to
reach out to, that's one of the
easiest first point of call.
Yeah.
Um, if, and that's just a,
"Let's have a chat about what
this might look like for you."
So you can do that online right now.
May: Sure.
And so we've talked a lot about how it's
suitable for, um, Australian settings.
Mm.
But is there any reason why our overseas
friends couldn't be using it either?
I'm assuming the subscription,
the website works internationally.
Yeah,
Cam: it works wherever you are.
Yep.
Um, so yeah, if you're in the UK, or
the US, anywhere else, um, around the
world- Mm ⦠this will work for you.
Uh, it's not a particularly- Um,
Australian-centric curriculum- Mm ⦠in
that it's written from our context.
Mm.
Um, but you're not going to find, you
know, the Australia Day celebration- Yeah.
True ⦠to do as a kids
ministry or something like that.
So it's written by us in Australia,
uh, but is not dependent upon being
in Australia- That's right ⦠um,
to write the, use the curriculum.
Annemarie: Yeah, you don't
May: need kangaroos or koalas or
anything like that to make it work.
Cam: Yes.
Great.
May: So hopefully it's pretty
universal, and I guess if people
are using it internationally- Mm
and then have feedback on what
could help with improving it-
Help to do that ⦠yeah, you guys
would be able to- Yep, absolutely.
Yeah.
Great.
All right.
Well, thanks so much, guys, for joining us
today on the Effective Ministry podcast.
Um, if you wanna find out more
about either our podcast or New
Creation Kids, feel free to contact
us here at Ministry Support.
Cam: Thanks.
May: Thanksâ¦.
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