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On the road training schools in Trust-Based Observations trainings, we periodically see absolute teaching brilliance during our 20-minute observations. It dawned on us that we have an obligation to share this brilliance with all teachers so they can learn and grow from one another. Each episode is an interview with one of these teachers where we explore their strengths as they share their tips and tricks. Tips and tricks that definitely lead to improved teaching and learning.
Welcome to 20 minutes of teaching brilliance on the road with Trust Based Observations.
Every week while training school leaders, Craig Randall, the developer of Trust Based Observations, witnesses brilliant teaching during their 20 minute observations.
Wanting to share that teaching brilliance with others, we talk shop with those teachers, learning what they do that is so impactful.
We hope you enjoy.
Craig: Hi, and welcome to another edition of 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance on the Road with trust-based observations.
This winter on the road, I was in Sarasota, Florida at Cardinal Mooney High School, and I was able to see some amazing teaching there.
While I was in there, I was able to see a ninth grade English class taught by Lauren Turley, and I really wanted to have her on the podcast.
So what I'm gonna do now is allow Lauren to introduce herself to you and maybe tell her a little bit about her, what she does and her journey and how she got here.
So, hi Lauren.
Lauren: Hi there.
Hi Craig.
Thank you for inviting me onto your podcast.
I told you I was happy to talk shop anytime.
So here we are making this happen.
This is almost my 20th year teaching.
I taught 15 years at incarnation Catholic School, which is a KI mean a K through eight school.
I taught middle school sixth through eighth.
And then I. That I would challenge myself further and jump into high school.
This is my fourth year teaching at Cardinal Mooney, and it's another fantastic experience with another set of challenges, which has, they have all encouraged me to become a better educator.
By you know, learning new curriculum IMP implementation to meet the needs of a ninth grader different than the needs of a sixth grader.
And so I'm continuously learning and growing researching best practices and it's just yeah, encouraging me to really become the best version of myself.
And there's always something new to learn.
Just like TBO.
Craig: So, so I've got two questions in for you.
How, what made you decide to get to teaching?
Lauren: Okay.
Long story short I went to college with a focus on advertising, a minor in Eng in English.
And my first internship, my only internship senior year, second semester, I. At a well-known music company in New York City did not prove to be what I had intended that to be.
I personally did not work well in the corporate environment.
And so I desired then to go back on my English minor pursue my Masters of Arts and teaching.
And I'm so grateful I did it.
It led me to a fantastic lucrative career.
In education and it was the best mistake I ever could have made.
I began sixth grade and then worked up to the eighth, and I remember thinking, oh my goodness, middle school students, can I handle them?
Then I remembered I got to eighth grade and I'm thinking.
Kids are kids.
They love to learn.
They're eager to learn.
And I get to show them creative ways, you know, to kind of, contain that passion.
And it's great having student clients.
I love it.
And yeah, so that, that road led me to where I am now.
And I don't regret any of it.
It's been wonderful.
It's been a great
Craig: somehow some way though from advertising, like teaching must have been looming somewhere in there.
And then it was like, I mean, it just
Lauren: So yeah, so I had always let's see.
I think I began well babysitting and then that moved into working in a daycare center.
So I just have always been working with children in some capacity.
Yes.
So that's, I guess, where all that stemmed from.
Craig: Right.
It's like, well, this doesn't work.
Oh, I work with kids,
Lauren: Yes.
And just having that, you know, nurturing, I guess, personality too.
Yeah.
Craig: Yeah.
Yeah, right.
And
Lauren: It's why we're educators, we're nurturers.
Craig: I think so.
I think so.
Alright, let's dig into it that you guys are doing The hero's journey.
The day I was in there, not just the day I was in there, but the day I was in there and I think.
One of the things that really stood out to me right away is and this is, it's gonna be under relationship classroom, student relationship and behavior management kind of combined, but maybe in a non-traditional way that people don't think about it as, and that really relies to re relates to two.
High expectations and relentlessness around some skill building that people wouldn't necessarily think of to me as relationship, but I think it is because it's, I care enough to set you up for success.
And it was really like, it was about organization and like, whether that was MA formatting or organization with their notebooks and everything we know.
One, lots of kids aren't very organized and we know there's a range and we know that poor organized kid.
If they're not it's a lost battle already.
And so that's a key piece of what I feel like you realize is important to them, that I see as relationships and behavior management in a nontraditional way.
I just want you to talk about that.
Lauren: So I think that also stems from, as a mother, knowing that my children need that kind of organization.
And I look at these, my students as my own children, thinking, okay, they, they like think of Maslow's hierarchy.
Let me go to that direction instead.
I can't expect them to start learning this heavy content, applying the Hero's Journey by Joseph Campbell to the Odyssey.
Unless they know where their pencil is, they know where their I, their iPad is charged.
They have a Google Doc in front of them that's properly headed and formatted with the right punctuation marks if they don't have, if they haven't perfected and mastered and shown proficiency in those basic skills.
And feel confident.
In those skills, then I can expect them to learn higher level concepts.
So yes, I take a step back and maybe it's all those years teaching middle school, which applies now to the high school level too.
Is that yes, I need every student to be on task in the minuscule details that tend to get overlooked.
So yeah.
Do you have your heading proper?
Is it, did you capitalize your name?
In a world where they're constantly texting, they don't capitalize.
They take those for granted.
They don't put a period where they're supposed to, and I know they can, and I say to them, I don't wanna use the L word, but I will.
Don't be lazy.
I know you know how to capitalize and punctuate, but we're not.
And so, yes, at the high school level, we still need to take a step back and ensure, and expect accuracy because they cannot move forward.
Unless they have that solid foundation and expectation, they'll know, all right, Mr.
Charlie's gonna ask for my name, teacher course and date on the top left corner of every paper.
And you make that a routine and then they won't have to, you know, think otherwise they'll know immediately start.
And once that procedure is in place, then we can get to the good stuff, the learning, the application.
So tho those procedures.
Are in place.
Expectations are set early on.
And that shows, you know, I care.
I, it's not that.
Okay.
Can you learn this concept and take a test on it and score?
Well, it's so much more than that.
We're trying to teach them to become productive human beings and apply these skills beyond the classroom.
Craig: in the adult world, it's gonna be the reality.
Real soon.
Lauren: yes.
Craig: Oh, there's so much to unpack in that answer.
One, I love the idea of my learning as a parent, as a guide to, well, if my kids need it, then my other kids need it too.
I love the twist on Maslow because it's still, you've gotta have the core.
It's the food, clothing, shelter of writing, right?
Of that and to get to the meat of the really fun stuff that they were doing with the Hero's journey.
And I think it's really easy
to assume our kids know more than what they know and inadvertently.
Set them up for failure by over assume, by assuming they can do things that they can be organized and can like, so we can just jump right into it.
And then inadvertently they're missing all these others.
So using your Maslow analogy, they're not with you on that because they're lost in the weeds on all the other stuff and not really joining what you're into what the deep fund work that you're doing.
I remember my first year as a basketball coach I thought.
The kids would know how to do all these things already.
And a few weeks in, I'm like, oh my God.
They don't, I, and I was, so, I'm having them do all these plays when they're like, well,
Lauren: What's a line of scrimmage?
Yeah.
Craig: or dribbling or whatever.
And then so, and then the other thing about it too and I think this ties into high expectations and relentlessness, and sometimes people will say, Craig, why is that on the relationship?
Section and I, you said it, it's from a place of care, and if I care enough that I'm doing everything I can, and you tied it to setting them up for adult success,
That's the ultimate relationship.
It's not necessarily the way we think about it in, in the buddy friendship knowledge of individual students, all those, and I'm not discounting those.
Those are super important, but I think in some ways it's the highest form of relationship.
I love it all.
Lauren: Yeah.
It does.
It shows we care and that you're not getting away with it.
Right.
It's, I, I.
Craig: If I teach you this now and you know, to do this, you're not gonna be like, like, oh my gosh.
I know in middle school you had that kid where you'd open up his desk and there's like 300 papers all strewn around.
Lauren: It's pigpen from Charlie Brown.
Yes.
We have those students, and they're the ones that need that TLC, and that has to be addressed immediately.
Otherwise it continues and then they're not going to feel confident.
They're not going to feel successful.
And I know
Craig: Well, there's low grade anxiety that accompanies that, that mess
Lauren: Of course
Craig: then that gets in the way of learning, like the Maslows that you were talking about.
Lauren: Sure.
And I wanted to address what you had said about the relationship building.
When I take the time after school to sit with a high school student to organize his backpack, and they know it comes from a legitimate place of care and concern that they then would understand the re the respect between the teacher, student rapport, you know, it only increases from there.
And they're more willing to, you know, to listen, to be engaging during class, knowing, okay, my teacher does care about me beyond, can I do well on this test?
You know, he or she wholeheartedly wants me to improve as a young man, a young woman, to be prepared to be confident.
And they pick up on that.
These students are smart and they understand if you care or don't care about them.
And if you don't show respect for them, then unfortunately they're not going to respect the teachers in the classroom.
If all we're focusing in on is grades and you know, accomplishments.
It's about the the little stuff too.
It all adds up.
They understand that.
Craig: I agree.
I agree.
Let's shift forward now to more into the work you were doing that day on the Hero's journey and really that day.
Like on the, on our form for people that haven't seen it and those that wanna see it, you can go to trust based.com and there's a tab that says observations form, and then you can get it downloaded and see it.
And it's a little daunting when you first look at it.
I know.
But then it, it has a lot of power to and so one of the sections in there is on questioning and higher order thinking skills.
And it's really a, an inverted blooms.
Pyramid, and I'm just pulling up my picture from that lesson that we had and so your lesson was totally spent.
In the top four areas, and I don't mean to level it at higher or lower, depends on what's going on in the lesson, but it was analyze, evaluate, synthesize, and create the activities that you had.
And there were like, they were analyzing the cave with the hero's inner journey.
They were evaluating the effects of the hero's journey on their life.
And then they had to doing synthesize, they had to apply it to their own life.
And then lastly, they had to create their own connected journey.
Like that's, oh man, it's just like my heart is stirring with excitement at living in that higher order thinking on, and it's so rare that I, and it's okay that I don't see it all the time, but it's so rare that I see all four of those top areas all hit in the one 20 minutes that I'm getting to observe.
And oh my gosh.
I'm just giddy actually thinking about it.
I know I'm weird.
But anyway.
Talk about that.
Lauren: So, it stemmed from a place of applying the heroes, applying the Odyssey, Greek mythology to their lives.
I know in their mind they're thinking, what's the point?
Why are we learning Greek mythology years and years later?
This guy who goes on this journey and meets all these monsters, what's the point?
Craig: And hard Greek mythology.
Not just like Zeus and the things that, all the stories that we know of that you can read in a four page storybook.
You're talking about deep, hard, challenging mythology.
Lauren: not only because it's part of the curriculum and I'm supposed to teach it, we want them to learn life lessons through literature.
And so I personally tried to make connections so that I find value because I know they're think that they will buy in if they find value into what they're learning.
So just like Odysseus went through the hero's journey, which we spent time learning the stage, the hero's journey applying that to, you know.
Pop culture to every hero movie, Spider-Man, you just fill in the blank.
So right away I had their attention with.
Action movies, right?
Then we move into the stages of the hero's journey, refusing the call, cross the threshold, meeting the mentor you know, tests, allies and enemies.
Once they had a firm understanding of those stage the hero's journey and was able to apply them to Odysseus' journey, then the application to their lives ensued.
How can you, apply the hero's journey to their own lives, to their journey.
And because we're in a Catholic school, I put the Catholic spin on it.
You know, the journey of fortitude, which is one of our, the gifts of Christ that we include as a gospel value in our lessons.
And so this journey of fortitude, what is it that God is calling you to do?
That maybe you are refusing God's call.
God wants you to be a better version of yourself.
And everyone's journey is different.
But I ask them to dig into their own personal lives.
What is a journey that you should be on that you know you need to take, but you're reluctant?
And that would be the refusal of the call.
At some point, something happens where the student says, okay, in my life I must cross the threshold, that point of no return and go onto my journey.
And on that journey here, she has a mentor.
Maybe it's a basketball coach, maybe it's a teacher, maybe it's you know, a band director, whatever journey they're on, they have someone who can guide them through.
And then the overall purpose, not to get to the end of the journey so far was this cave You fear to enter holds.
The treasure you seek, says Joseph Campbell.
And the idea was you are reluctant to get through that cave, but in doing so.
You'll have the treasure that awaits you, whether it is a scholarship, whether it's playing D one at your college of choice.
Maybe it's getting all a's in a difficult Spanish course.
It's just some, a journey of confidence becoming more outspoken.
Students wrote about, you know, fantastic personal ideas and their narratives came out so well because it's easy to write about yourself.
But then in, in this lesson, they then learned how to relate Odysseus's journey to their own journey, making the whole lesson so much more meaningful and of value.
Craig: I love all of that.
And again, you like I read a whole page of notes to unpack.
First, it's so important that we tap into their interest, especially with something like this, that which they could just zone out, right?
And be blank stares.
And so you start out with like hero movies that like, like you said, Spider-Man or whatever, but anytime we can tap into their interest to pull them in and draw a connection between this.
Thing That's really cool.
Oh, it's the same thing.
It's just different.
Lauren: Yep.
Craig: And then we get into the real, like learning my own learning.
And there's just so much value there in terms of like, how does it apply to me?
And you.
There's relevance and like, 'cause we all have areas in our life.
In our own life journeys, you, me and everybody that there's things out there and something's holding me back.
I know I should do it, but whatever it is there that, so that to get them at 14 or 15-year-old to maybe start to think about and use this literary vessel and explore their own personal areas.
Cross that threshold as it were.
And then like you said, using a mentor, throwing out the idea of mentors you're talking about process, you're talking about if we can overcome that obstacle fear, whatever it is to it, that on the other side there's this new.
Learning if we can just get over our own hurdles and then applying that to their own lives and thinking about what is in my life that's similar to this journey.
It just, I just find it so stirring,
Lauren: And they really engaged with this lesson.
Again, like you had just said, Craig, they enjoyed talking about writing about themselves and then they.
Craig: we all like to talk and write about
Lauren: of course, and it's easy to do that.
And the students of the course are more confident in their writing abilities when they're writing about what they know themselves as a ver as opposed to having to conduct research or, you know, find text evidence.
This is just their own personal narrative.
So, it made it for a easy application for them.
They didn't, I think, struggle as much as I had expected.
If they knew those stages well enough going into this lesson.
Craig: And there's still amazing learning for the kids on the writing process and improving the quality of their writing if we're informatively assessing along the way and giving them a chance to what ee, maybe it's not text citation stuff, but I'm still, there's probably some of it that ends up building itself into there anyway.
But I can still become a better writer through this process, but because I'm tapping into something that they wanna write about.
Like even if that's my intro to, then I'm going into something that's not necessarily, 'cause not everything I'll write will get to be writing about myself.
We're still growing their writing at the same time as we're doing all of this other amazing human being, learning about myself.
I'm also building your writing and literacy skills at the same time.
Lauren: Yeah, and any time you can get the students excited about their learning, well win-win.
Craig: Yeah, I mean, you've you're 90% of the battle through on that one.
Alright, so, Then the last area I want to talk about before I, before we dig into trust-based observations itself is you had a couple of times in the process of the 20 minutes where students were self-assessing.
There was a little intro activity, it was a crossword kind of an activity, and it was just a, I can't remember the details of what it was, but they had to self-assess their work on that.
And then there was another work with their writing and their reading, and I think it was back going through their notebooks about like, what do I still need to learn?
Lauren: Yes, it was a graphic organizer to analyze one of the scenes from the Odyssey and in.
Reviewing their homework, I had noticed that many students had the same question incorrect.
So I took the moment at the beginning of class to ask them to revisit that one question and to make sure that they had corrected it and they understood the correct answer and why.
Since that was an area of improvement for most majority of the students.
Craig: And so what I particularly like about that is I, Lauren, I see more teachers through the lens of observation, I can say with confidence than any human being each year.
And so I see patterns a and so.
Formative assessment.
Any type of formative assessment we're doing is good.
I mean, there's, we can get stronger at it for sure, but 90 some percent of what I see is teacher-led formative assessment where I'm looking at your work.
There's so much power in peer-to-peer.
When I'm looking at my partner's work and.
There's equally so much power when I've got some kind of a criterion of looking at my own work as well, as opposed to just having my teacher do it.
And so in that 20 minute period, whenever I see peer-to-peer or student, because I don't see it a whole lot it really.
It excites me because I wanna see more of it out there and so as you're doing that and the kids are having a chance to self-reflect and even as they're self-reflecting, you're also going around the room and you were looking at what they were doing and chatting with them and having your own descriptive, pre progress feedback, conversations with them in the midst of their self-assessments too.
It's just, it's another way to tap in besides just my doing it that I think deepens their learning.
Lauren: Sure.
And if I don't provide them with immediate feedback what's the point?
They're not going to be learning either.
I could have just marked it wrong and moved on.
But I wanted them to understand, you know, that assignment and yeah, to correct it, to, to show, you know,
Craig: you keep it
Lauren: of course accuracy and yes.
Craig: now it's done.
Lauren: Sure.
And if they know I am looking at your work, I'm not just check, check, checking it off.
So that also increases or encourages them to put forth their best work, knowing, okay, the teacher really is looking because it's easy just to go, okay, credit, no credit check plus check minus.
So we always have to, you know, ensure that, that we care enough to they, if we expect them to put forth.
Effort.
They have to know that we have to expect them to grade it appropriately and provide, you know, timely feedback.
Craig: Yeah.
Like, how am I and even taking the grading part out of it, just like, look, I wanna help you.
Let's talk about this and let's talk about, and when you do that, man, they get excited.
'cause then they learn right in the moment.
They're they, oh, that next step.
Right that zone of proximal development.
Now I've got a new zone of proximal development 'cause I've just hit a new level because of whatever my self-assessment and or combined with our conversation around my self-assessment.
Yeah, it's good stuff.
Let's jump into, let's finish by talking about this new way of observing and I think you, I don't know if you were our very first one that week, you were dying close if you weren't and, so you've been observed different ways along the way.
I know the diocese has had their way, and you've taught in different schools, and you've been teaching for, like you said, almost 20 years.
So you've experienced a lot.
And so I'm just curious what your thoughts are on this new style of trust-based observations.
Lauren: Well, the name says it all, it's this trust between the educator and the evaluator, whether it's administrator or, and it's just.
The idea that the evaluator is not there to criticize, which has always been, I think a preconceived notion of observation.
You know, the admin walks in and your heart drops and you're like, oh no, I'm being observed today.
I do this, or My objectives on the board.
Do I have an essential question?
Oh, what is he or she going to ding me for on my evaluation form?
And yes, it did have that.
You know?
Yeah.
Preconceived notion of, it's a criticism.
What did you not do well in trust-based observation?
It, it's not meant to be a criticism.
It's meant to be feedback and it's to encourage the teachers, educators, of course, to celebrate what they're doing well, as you've been doing with me all along and through this podcast, of course really celebrating the fantastic teaching that goes on in the classrooms that it's not always prevalent in a lesson plan or, you know, the day that you're observed.
And it's, and then the teachers can feel confident knowing that, okay, I'll be receiving feedback.
I can receive you know, recognition of all the hard work that went into this lesson or all that I do and it's being acknowledged.
You had completed a nine page form that really showed that you had dug in deep into this 20 minute lesson and still were able to regurgitate nine pages of notes.
Going into, I think, deep concepts that even I hadn't thought about when I wrote that lesson plan or when I had executed that lesson that day, and I'm thinking, wow, did I really do that?
Apparently I did.
I didn't realize I had touched upon so many levels of higher level thinking in that one lesson.
And so, it didn't even seem like an observation to me.
It was more of a celebration of abilities and skills and and talent and best practices.
And letting teachers know you're doing a great job and continue and here are some strategies to get even better at what you do.
And so that's the heart I think, of trust-based observation.
And it's the complete opposite of the original feeling of being, of criticism.
It's about inspiring, encouraging
Craig: And I think when we're doing what you would say, criticism or I might call the got what people oftentimes will say is the gotcha or whatever model is, I'm not saying it's not well intended, but but like intent and impact and they don't always align.
And the impact is it causes me to be a little fearful and not want to take risks.
And, but when we've.
Start by working on strengths and focusing on what you're doing.
Well, one.
Just like our kids want recognition for what they're doing, right.
Lauren: We too.
Craig: positive, constructive, specific feedback, like it's meaningful to them, and then that inspires them to further growth.
So why would we do something so contrary to that in the way that we do work with teachers?
And that's really what we've been doing for the last quarter century.
And just like you said.
All of a sudden when I'm, when I can feel good about what I'm doing, which I need some of the stuff I didn't even realize, like I know I do some things, but, and just have somebody tell you that now what am I doing?
As a result, I'm thinking even more about my practice and what I can do even better.
And isn't that the bottom line of what we're doing?
They're supposed to
Lauren: Of course.
And I look at that, you know, the the inverted triangle of the higher order thinking.
And I am encouraged to ensure I'm touching upon those.
And when I write my lessons, I'm thinking, is this application or is this just basic recall of facts and re recognition?
Am I really meeting their needs?
Are they being challenged?
Is this rigorous enough?
And so that there's a great reminder to, to keep my lesson planning, you know, to the analyze, evaluate, synthesize levels as much as possible.
And then when you know, a educator, I mean, an administrator might pop in one day and instead of feeling anxious.
It's, Hey, come on in.
Look what I'm doing today.
Look what I can do.
Look what my students are learning.
And you're excited to share, you know, your lesson with students beyond the students, but with your peers or with administrators.
And it should be an inspiring feeling.
Craig: And because we see you so much more, and not every lesson is going to be designed to be that way because there's different ways along the progress of a unit.
So also, if I happen to come in and it's one of those days where I. It's more recognize, understand, and apply because that's just where we have to be today because of the strengths-based nature of where it's at and the frequency with which we see you.
You're not thinking, oh no Dr. Iig is only seeing this today.
He's gonna think this, because, you know, that's not the case too.
So it doesn't cause fear.
If you happen to be seeing a day, that's not my most engaging 20 minutes.
'cause that's just the reality too.
Lauren: Of course, yes, of course.
Craig: So listen, I think Lauren, some people are going to want to reach out and maybe dig more into your hero's journey stuff and all that higher order thinking stuff you're doing, and so would you be willing to share your professional contact information in case somebody wants to reach out?
Lauren: Of course I would, I'd be more than happy to address any questions, comments about that lesson or anything else we talked about today?
My email address is l. T-U-R-L-E-Y-L, turley@cmhssarasota.org.
And again, I'm Lauren Turley, and I'd love to hear from you.
Craig: And that will be in the show notes, so you can look it up on there as well.
So Lauren, thank you so, so much for letting me come in and watch your class a couple months ago and even more so for engaging in this chat today.
I'm super grateful.
Thank
Lauren: Oh my pleasure, Craig.
Anytime.
Thank you for what you do.
Craig: Thanks.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
Lauren: Bye-bye.
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