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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica 5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Poobah, Senator, Pagoda, and Bam Bam.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar. Drink some bourbon, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 140th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We're going to smoke a New World cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating.
We hear critical emails and a voice memo on gizmoaccountability. We share the international journey of our bourbon pairing, and we discuss a recent video interview I did, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair Jefferson's Ocean Aged at Sea Kentucky Straight Bourbon with the Dunbarton Tobacco Trust Sobremesa in Cervantes, Fino.
A Corona Gorder tonight on the pod from [00:01:00] Dunbarton Tobacco Trust. It's called the Sobremesa. In Cervantes Fino, it's a 46 ring gauge cigar by six and six and a quarter inches long. And boys, we are back to some Saka.
**Bam Bam:** Oh yeah.
**Gizmo:** So we've really enjoyed his cigars and the Sobremesa is one that some of the guys in the room have been enjoying.
Yes. Outside of the podcast, so we decided to do another one.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. On the pod. Admittedly in the Robusto Vitola, but I'm excited to smoke this tonight.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, I've heard good things about this, so. Yeah. I'm going to peel off the foot band here, and let's cut this thing boys. It's a nice looking cigar. It is.
Should we get on the cold draw on the wrapper?
I love a cigar of this size, 46 ring gauge.
**Bam Bam:** Wide open draw.
**Rooster:** Soft flames only.
**Gizmo:** The wrapper is very, very smooth. You notice that? It's like, it's [00:02:00] like fine weather.
**Bam Bam:** There's a slight toothiness to it, and the color's beautiful. But it's, I wouldn't call it an elegant wrapper. But it is good looking. It's
**Gizmo:** very smooth.
**Bam Bam:** What
**Gizmo:** are you guys getting on the cold draw, anything?
**Poobah:** As Rooster would say, some sweetness.
**Gizmo:** I got a little fig
**Poobah:** on
**Bam Bam:** the cold draw. A little fig, yeah.
**Poobah:** Hmm.
**Rooster:** Kind of like dried fruit a
**Bam Bam:** little bit.
**Rooster:** A little
**Bam Bam:** bit.
**Poobah:** It does though. This one actually does taste. You know, I'm proud of you. Say more rooster.
**Bam Bam:** I got to tell you something. I'm proud that you're not avoiding that terminology. I'm not, I'm
**Gizmo:** not
**Rooster:** gonna.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's light this thing. The Dunbarton tobacco and trust Sobremesa in Cervantes Fino. Again, it's a 46 ring gauge Corona Gorda by six and a quarter inches long. And it is the third entry from Dunbarton that we're doing on the pod. Do we
**Bam Bam:** know how much the cigar is?
**Gizmo:** This cigar was about 13 bucks.
Okay.
**Bam Bam:** Wow. Flavorful right off the light. [00:03:00] It tastes a little aged to me on the light. And honestly, it's not as dessert like as the Robusto is for me. Initially. Great smoke output. Oh, this is, this is a good cigar.
**Gizmo:** This is nice. I'm getting a, a, uh, it's almost like a cherry. Yeah. Type of note with a little salt.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Or like a raspberry for me maybe.
**Gizmo:** Could be a raspberry.
**Bam Bam:** And the salt's there too.
**Rooster:** Yeah, definitely a salty note. I like it. Salty twang.
**Poobah:** Tastes like BAM after the gym.
**Bam Bam:** Come over
**Poobah:** here
**Bam Bam:** and take a lick. Oh please, come on. Salty. Poobah,
**Gizmo:** how is it on the light for you? It's really good. Have you had, uh, any of the Dunbarton stuff before, Poobah?
Were you here for the Bewitched? I was not, no. So this is your first Dunbarton?
**Poobah:** It is, and it's very, on the light, it's fantastic. I
**Gizmo:** [00:04:00] anticipate that you're going to enjoy most of what Steve makes.
**Bam Bam:** I agree. Like, has he had the Sin Compromiso? I don't think so. That's an excellent cigar, you would love that.
This
**Gizmo:** is really nice.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Really nice. Senator, what are you, what are you getting on the light?
**Senator:** I'm having a slightly a difficult time pinpointing each note. Um, there's definitely the sweetness. There's a little kind of saltiness that I think one or two of you have mentioned. Um, there's a faint bit of cocoa.
But I, I'm struggling with like the fruit, like there was fig on the cold draw, but now I feel like there's a another type of fruit in the background, I'm just not picking out exactly what, but it's definitely complex, like I'm getting several different flavors, I'm just trying to parse out each one. So
**Bam Bam:** cherry, I think cherry's accurate, cherry and raspberry have these unusual like aftertaste, not like There's like
**Senator:** a tart
**Bam Bam:** aftertaste.
Yeah, and I get that in this, for sure. That could be one or the other. But do you think this is as dessert like as the Robusto? [00:05:00]
**Senator:** No, I think the Robusto Largo has a bit more cocoa, some more coffee on the light than this does. I
**Gizmo:** mean,
**Senator:** it's mild.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, I'm kind of liking the The retro
**Bam Bam:** though is The retro is awesome.
The retro is good, but it's pretty medium. That's, that's a, that's a Hefty, virtual hell, honestly.
**Poobah:** Yeah. It's off to a good start. Not a great, not aggressive at all.
**Gizmo:** The cigar feels very good in the hand too. I like this size. When they came in, I was very happy. They, they seem pretty densely packed. You know, there's, there's not a lack of tobacco in the cigar for that's for sure.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Nice Vitola. Yeah.
**Senator:** The thing I think I like about Saka cigars as we've kind of started this journey with Marestro de Saka, the Sin Compromiso, and now this, all of them, and he talked about this, are very flavorful, but with a smooth delivery. Like I can't, there's not one Dunbarton cigar I've [00:06:00] lit yet that I would say is like full and aggressive in strength.
It's always full of flavor, but the delivery is just super smooth and like medium in terms of like the body that the cigar has. And I, I like that. I think we pursue that a lot of the time. That's why Padrone is a favorite. I think it's why Davidoff's a favorite. So I, I think from that perspective, he's done a very nice job.
Well,
**Bam Bam:** the quality of his products off the charts and if that delivery is consistent across his catalog.
**Senator:** I also have to say, I even love the boxes. That's something to say, man. The boxes are great. Have you seen his boxes? I mean, we, the fact that we talked, we spent a shocking amount of time talking about Cuban cigars with him when we interviewed him at PCA, which we obviously, Did not anticipate.
Yeah. And I remember the first box I ordered after we had met with him and I'm looking at the bottom and he has box codes just like Cubans and, um, the month and date kind of, uh, the year stamped on the, the bottom of them. I think that's cool. It's really cool. And even just the, [00:07:00] the style, everything about it, I really love the boxes and the artwork.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Pagoda:** So I guess he's anticipating that with age, they'll improve. That's right.
**Poobah:** I also like the band. Um, I like that it's understated and not over the top. And there was a foot band on here, but there is, but I don't mind that because it does offer some protection. Um,
**Gizmo:** and I like when it's easy to get off like this.
Oh, it comes right off. It's not ripping the wrapper. Yeah, it's properly applied. So I have no complaint when it's,
**Bam Bam:** you know, but it wasn't,
**Poobah:** but it wasn't like a quarter inch foot band. It was just a protective foot band, which I'm okay with. I mean, if you're traveling with a cigar and cellophane you put in your pocket, it's, it does protect it.
Absolutely. I also,
**Senator:** like Poobah was saying about just the, the regular band on this, I think it's super elegant. Like it's simple, understated, but also just really elegant. Like looking at this cigar, I think this is one of the better, if not one of the best looking cigars just with the way [00:08:00] that they've done the artwork for the band.
Agreed. It's just understated. It's
**Rooster:** just because, yeah, it's classic. The gold with the brown, I mean, just, you know, looks nice. It's sharp.
**Bam Bam:** His logo is great too. I like everything he's doing. It's right on the money.
**Poobah:** It's not too much. I mean, you could have put a big foot band on this. You could put a bigger band on it.
And, um, you know, who really wants that? I really like the way. And then when you feel the band, it's an, it's not a cheap band. It's they, they invested in it. There's an embossing there for sure. Yes. There's, there's raised embossing. It's, it's
**Bam Bam:** really, it's really cool. I don't think there's another new world cigar maker that puts a box code or a date on a box.
And. I would like to think, because of the conversation we had with him, he's not afraid to talk about Cuba and the Cuban cigar like many of his competitors are. I think he respects it. I think he has an affinity for it. And I think he probably is going in that direction to not mimic, but to kind of pay homage to it.
**Senator:** You know who [00:09:00] else I recently discovered does it? Uh, Rafael Nadal of Aging Room. And he is Cuban himself. He's a Cuban American. Are there stamps on those boxes? I didn't see that.
**Bam Bam:** Oh.
**Senator:** No.
**Gizmo:** It's funny, I have a, I have a box of the, uh, the sonata we did. And I didn't even notice that there was a, it's funny. New world cigars.
I don't even look for, there's a date
**Senator:** in year. I'm not sure if there's a box code, but there's definitely a date you're stamped,
**Gizmo:** which is
**Bam Bam:** cool.
**Gizmo:** That's
**Bam Bam:** cool.
**Gizmo:** A lot of people don't know this too. And every box of Patrons, there's a little white piece of paper stuck in between the border that has the, the date that the cigars were boxed and it has the, person that I think sorted and the person that boxed the cigars.
I don't, I don't think it's roll. I think it's, I may be wrong,
**Bam Bam:** but I don't think the thousand series cigars have that. I don't think that's
**Gizmo:** a good point.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Could be definitely 64 and up too. Oh yeah. But you have to dig for it. It's not a, it's not. In front of your face. But I guess that's helpful if you have a, an issue with your cigars.
**Poobah:** I think for, I think for a smoker who does like a Cuban cigar [00:10:00] profile, um, that they'd like this because it's so far it's just, it's medium in its delivery, but it's got, it's got full body. Um, and that's a merit if, if, if, if that's in your wheelhouse. Um, so I don't know if he's paying homage to that or not.
Or maybe not homage, but, um, if there's any influence there, because what is this blend? So can you talk about what the, um, what the wrapper, the binder and the filler is?
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So the, the cigars were rolled in Nicaragua, as we know, the wrapper is Nicaraguan, Pennsylvanian. The binder is San Andreas Negro, and the filler is Ecuadorian Habano.
Ecuadorian. Ecuadorian Habano. So, Sobremesa, which loosely means, quote, over the table, as he says, has no precise English translation because, as they say here, there's no cultural equivalent in the U. S. It's an idiom used among the Latin culture to describe the leisurely time spent table side right [00:11:00] after you have finished dining, but before you rise, before you get up.
It's the experience of lingering casually with family and friends in conversation, relaxing, drinking, smoking, and enjoying each other's company. Sobremesa is one of life's simplest. Yet greatest pleasures. I would wholeheartedly agree with that great sentiment right there.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, have you got the to get the aroma?
Oh, it's wonderful right on that foot of the cigar. It is creamy. And I dare I say a little bit of honey It's it's unusual.
**Senator:** No, it's so funny. You say that pagoda just like a minute or so ago Took a draw and just the smoke wafted over my good. It smelled incredible I mean the flavor just from the aroma of the smoke for me was even more robust and flavorful than what I was getting on my own drop of the cigar.
And
**Bam Bam:** occasionally in the club you get that depending on what a guy smoking next to you and when you get that, that's pretty cool. Special moment, I think.
**Gizmo:** I do, I do like the subtle approach to the flavor in this cigar. I like that nothing's punching you in the face. It's [00:12:00] all very smooth, but there's a lot here.
**Bam Bam:** You
**Gizmo:** know, there's a lot of, I think there are a lot of notes here. Mm hmm. And I think as it develops and heats up a little bit, it's, it's gonna prove to be very interesting where this goes. I
**Poobah:** agree. I think there's body and complexity, um, and it's showing that early on, which I predict will only get, hopefully only get better.
**Gizmo:** So there are quite a few Vittolas in the Sobremesa line. There's the Grand Imperialis, which is 54 by 7, the Elejante Encedros, 50 by 7, Cervantes Fino that we're smoking now, 46 by 6 14, the El Americano, 52 by 6, the Robusto Largo that Senator was just talking about having, 52 by 5 14, and the Short Churchill, which is a 48 by a little under 5 inches long, 4 34 inches.
So that's the line. So, there is a sister line to this called the Sobremesa Brulee. And I know, Senator, that you've had [00:13:00] quite a few of those, uh, over the past few months. Earlier in the day, I think. It's kind of a lighter cigar. How would you compare that? What's your experience been with the Brulee?
**Senator:** Yeah, I mean, they're both really well made beautifully constructed cigars.
The Sobremesa brulee has like a lighter kind of Connecticut shade wrapper meant to be a much milder cigar. And I think even Saka, when we met with him was talking about how for the mild cigar smoker, that was meant to impart kind of as much flavor as you would get in a mild cigar. And so. You know, in his estimation, anyone should be able to enjoy it.
I was pleasantly surprised that I don't really pursue many mild cigars, but I thought it did have enough flavor to be really enjoyable to start a day. Would I smoke that in the evening? Definitely not. Maybe for a mild cigar smoker, that's really all they smoke throughout the day. But. I thought the flavor was really great and it was super, super creamy.
Nice. Like, with a coffee, just unbelievable. Do you remember the Vittola that you had? The Robusto? [00:14:00] I also bought the Robusto. Oh, nice. I honestly, I love that size. Yeah, it's a great shape. Even how this is smoking, I prefer that size to this. Um, but, you know, Gizmo's on a war against, uh, you know, 50 plus Bigger re gigs.
**Gizmo:** We'll get to that. We will get to that. This is going to be an anti Gizmo episode. I can feel it.
**Bam Bam:** I'll be honest. I'm having a tough time choosing which one's, Better the ribo or this, I love that rib robusto. This is very good. But that, that ring gauge, I think just imparts more flavor. I don't know.
**Senator:** And the smoke output.
Yeah. It's like the whole experience for, oh yeah.
**Rooster:** So you have the, so MEA and Rib Robusto Center gave sous larva. Yeah, yeah, right. It's nice. You got a, you got a box. Nice. So it tastes different.
**Gizmo:** A little bit
**Rooster:** different. Bit a bit different.
**Gizmo:** So Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust has quite a few lines. We can go through a few of them.
The Meida and the Meida Black. They also have, uh, the one that. Steve Saka mentioned on our interview with him at PCA. We did on episode [00:15:00] 128, the Mi Querida Tricky Traca, which is I think a pretty full, strong cigar. We also have the Red Meat Lovers, which is a popular cigar. Uh, I've seen a lot of people talking about that.
We'll have to do that at some point. Rooster will
**Bam Bam:** abstain.
**Gizmo:** The Stillwell Star, the Umbagog, the Todos Las Dias, the Unicorns, the Sin Compromiso we did on episode 128, the Muestra de Saka, the And the totals last Diaz. So, like I said, this is the third cigar we've done on the pod from him. The other two are the moisture to SACA, the bewitched and the sin compromiso number four.
So if you're looking for a little bit of history on Steve SACA, we did do a deeper dive on episodes one 10 and on episode one 28, alongside smoking that cigar and talking about Don Barton and his history. We also pieced in an interview with Steve that we did at PCA 2024, which was beyond our expectations.
We had such a great conversation with him and we're looking forward to having him on again soon. So check those out if you'd like to learn a little bit more. about what Sokka is doing at [00:16:00] Dunbarton Tobacco Trust, and of course, about his history. It can all be found there.
**Bam Bam:** Now, his place is located in New Hampshire, is that right?
Yeah, he's up north, yep. It's a good three and a half hour drive. Could be worth it. Yeah, we
**Senator:** have to head up there. I have to say, this is getting better and better as I smoke it. I'm kind of now in Bam's camp of debating between the Robusto Largo and this. I, I think They're different and there are kind of merits in each format.
There is,
**Bam Bam:** um, like that, um, honey caramel thing kind of happening on the finish for me on this. And the retro enhances it. It's, uh, it's, it's quite good.
**Senator:** I also just like, I feel like Pagoda always says this about certain cigars, Pagoda will say it's an easy smoke. And that's what I feel like with these cigars, whether it's the Robusto or this, yeah, they're just, it's so effortless, like they're, they're so well constructed where the draw is always nice and open.
You're never fighting the cigar, the combustion's great. The flavor always makes itself clearly known. I just never have to like, [00:17:00] Put so much effort when I'm smoking one of these, which I love, you know, it sounds like it should be the case for every cigar, but it's not for every cigar that we smoke.
**Poobah:** It's 100 percent not for every cigar that we smoke.
And what's cool about this, um, to build on what you're saying is that You're not putting, I'm not putting many puzzle pieces together, like saying, how do I figure out what the cigar is trying to present to me? Meaning, um, not muddled. Um, there's, there's distinct flavor notes that you can pick out of this.
Of the cigar. They're very distinct. And in any cigar to me, that's a huge merit because it's presenting itself and it's there and you can pick these notes out and people express them in different ways. But, um, and it's extremely approachable and the finish, um, is long. So that tells me body it's, it's got, it's, it's a [00:18:00] full body, medium strength cigar.
Um, And I like that. That's kind of in my wheelhouse. You can retrohale it. It's not too peppery. So it fits in, it fits in a slot, I think for all of us somewhere.
**Gizmo:** I'm wondering, I'm wondering, you know, going off what you're saying about where it slots in for you guys that have smoked the Robusto and I know that we're only, you know, an inch in here, right?
But just based on where it is now, does it find itself in a different slot as of right now than the Robusto would, you think?
**Bam Bam:** This could be the start of a sit, if I'm gonna have three or four cigars. This would be a great, great, great way to start. Or an end of the night cigar. Yeah, if you want something that's mild, that's kind of medium, mild and medium and flavorful, that's a great, that's a great point.
**Pagoda:** I think what's interesting is if you were to hand the cigar to somebody, he'd be expecting something stronger with a richer, you
**Bam Bam:** know. But hold on, would a cup of coffee in the morning? A little cream in that coffee. This would also be very good.
**Pagoda:** So you think it's approachable? Very approachable. I'm [00:19:00] like really, uh, pleasantly surprised because I was expecting something very different, you know, obviously, with Steve Saka, you know, the League of Nine.
It started off really earthy, and I said, oh, it's going to develop into something very, you know, Cocoa coffee, but it hasn't at all. In fact, I'm trying to identify the flavor and I think the closest thing I come to it's very Mild for me, and I know I it's it's a bit of tangent, but you might recognize it.
You know, oh, it's a black salt We'll be right back. Remember the black salt? Is it cardamom?
**Rooster:** No, it's not. No.
**Poobah:** back to the old country. Yeah,
**Rooster:** exactly right. .
**Poobah:** No, it's, you know, it is back to, back to, we're going back to India. You,
**Rooster:** you turn, turn their mics off and me and Pagoda are
**Pagoda:** talking about No, no, you do. It's like everybody
**Rooster:** I know.
I know exactly what you're talking about. Yes. Black salt, a little
**Pagoda:** bit of that flavor is, and um, it's, you know. I think for everyone, right? We tend to identify [00:20:00] flavors. We've kind of grown up with what we can immediately recognize, like that's true, bam. Love, you know, the dried fruit. Of course, uh, uh, for us it's, uh, you know, slightly different.
Um, and, uh, yeah, it's giving me some kind of, uh, nostalgic, really, really flavor can, I was actually
**Rooster:** gonna say that the, the salty note is the most prominent note on this ago. I agree. For me so far. It is. Everything else is kind of in the background, but the saltiness is kind of in the front.
**Bam Bam:** But what Poobah said earlier, though, those.
Even though those notes are secondary, they're very distinct. Like I'm getting a little cream, a little bit of honey, caramel, not much fruit on this thing at all. Yeah, I
**Rooster:** get some honey and saltiness. That's,
**Bam Bam:** that's a great combo. Yeah,
**Rooster:** I'm not, I'm not getting any like a cherry or Early on.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah,
**Senator:** I'm not getting in the chair.
**Bam Bam:** That evaporated. Yeah, it's early on. That was early on. Yeah.
**Senator:** Poobah, which kind of doll are you picking up
**Bam Bam:** in this?
**Senator:** A doll? Oh, my
**Bam Bam:** lord.
**Pagoda:** Oh, my [00:21:00] lord. A little tikka? Bleh. Uh,
**Poobah:** well played. Uh,
**Gizmo:** you know, it's funny about you saying that, you know, based on the name of the cigar and what that means. So Bermesa having a cigar after dinner, this would actually be wonderful after dinner
**Pagoda:** and you just hang out and talk.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Some, some, a great meal like that, some tikka masala or some, uh, some black doll, some lentils. That'd be amazing.
**Bam Bam:** Absolutely. Rooster, what are you thinking here?
**Rooster:** I want your opinion.
**Pagoda:** He says, I just edited in game.
**Rooster:** I mean, Pagoda just mentioned about the black salt and stuff. Black salt. What is that? Black salt has a very distinct flavor and smell.
**Pagoda:** It's
**Rooster:** kind of like, almost like sulfur. If you like, The smell is really bad. The smell is bad. It's kind of like
**Pagoda:** Anybody getting sulfur tonight on this thing? No. No. [00:22:00] No. No. No. It's got the It's got like a little
**Rooster:** You know what it looks like? It looks like Himalayan salt. Like pink. Yeah. Kind of. But it's more It's like really potent.
Yeah. Okay. I don't know
**Poobah:** what that is, but it is a little salty.
**Rooster:** We'll bring it next time.
**Bam Bam:** I will say though, we're about an inch in and it is very, very good.
**Gizmo:** I'm really enjoying the cigar. I like, I like Pagoda just said, I, Think when we got these in, hearing more about the Brûlée, honestly, than I did about the Sobremesa, just because Center had been talking quite a bit about the Brûlée experience over the last few weeks.
I was definitely expecting this to be a little bit more full and a little stronger, and I'm pleasantly surprised. This is a very, very easy smoke. But don't
**Bam Bam:** you find aroma to be Extremely easy to detect. I mean, it's, there's no harshness at all. There's nothing biting about this.
**Poobah:** I'm going to predict that it's going to build a little.
I hope so. That's my [00:23:00] prediction. Cause I feel a little bit of build happening, a little bit of build and strength. And hopefully in the last third, maybe it picks up and gives and gives a little punch. Hope so.
**Senator:** Yeah, the, the main reason I was excited to, to pick this up, and I had this before the Brulee, this was the first cigar that Sokka ever put out under Dunbarton.
**Bam Bam:** Is that right? So
**Senator:** for me, when I was just, when I had read that, you'd think you kind of have to hit a home run out of the gate to build a successful brand like that. And um, once I tried it, you know, I think what we're all talking about is how versatile this cigar is. How, You know, for, um, someone who doesn't like, you know, a full strength cigar could, uh, still enjoy this.
It's full flavor, but it's more medium in its delivery. Someone who likes full flavor, there's enough flavor, even though it's not as strong as some cigars they might pursue. You could have this. I mean, Bam went as far as the morning, afternoon, evening. There's something pretty much for everyone in this cigar, which I think was really smart for his first stick to put it out.
to be able to do that.
**Poobah:** That's [00:24:00] interesting. Um, this, so this is how he started this, this particular Vitola. No, just Sobremesa. Sobremesa, the blend. Oh, the blend of this. Well, the blend of this, this, it was this that he introduced first. The Sobremesa
**Gizmo:** came out in 2015. That was his first cigar under a Dunbar.
**Poobah:** This 46. This one, it comes in a whole bunch of atolls. Oh, okay. I didn't, okay. I thought you were saying that he introduced this particular, this blend. Okay.
**Senator:** Yeah. This cigar, this blend, not this Vitola. There's several of them, right?
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I'm finding this to be a shockingly easy cigar to smoke. I don't know why I'm surprised because we've had some great experiences with soccer.
I mean, that, that, that. Sin compromiso rated really well. We spoke two of them, one with him at PCA and then one here in the, under the microscope in the room. Fucking
**Bam Bam:** cigars. Delicious.
**Gizmo:** Unbelievable. Yeah, that was great. So, and what I like about this is this is quite a bit different than both the moisture to soccer we did and the sin compromiso we did.
So what we're finding is there's not this [00:25:00] consistent flavor profile. And I mean that as a compliment, it he's offering something a little different in each of the lines, which I think is really making a well rounded. Palate of cigars, you know, that he's putting out, which I think is great.
**Rooster:** Yeah, I mean, this cigar, like you said, Sobremesa means having it at the table, like after a meal.
I think, I also had the Brulee. Um, I think that would be a good fit also as a dessert cigar. Not only in the morning, but also as a dessert because it's, it's got a sweet note. That's nice. I,
**Senator:** that I feel differently about just with the dessert. I can't smoke that anytime other than the morning. Really?
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Senator:** Early afternoon at the latest. Wow. You need
**Poobah:** a, a stronger cigar after a meal for your palate. Right.
**Bam Bam:** It's hard not to want to continue to take a pull. Yeah. It's, it's very, it's very good. It's delicious.
**Gizmo:** My cigar has a slight bit of resistance right now. And it's actually good. It's slowing me down a little bit.
It's kind of making me pace, you know. And, and like you said, [00:26:00] Senator, it's effortless. You know, I'm not having to work too hard to smoke the cigar. And some of the new worlds we have, you know, you're constantly fighting it and pulling it and, you know, trying to make something happen. But this is, this is really easy.
**Poobah:** I have a slight construction issue going on. But. I, I wet it midway down the cigar. It looked like it was coming unraveled a little bit. And I'm, I don't think it's because of the pace I'm smoking it, but I think it's repaired. Spit goes a long
**Gizmo:** way.
**Poobah:** Yeah, it does. It does.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys. Let's talk about our pairing tonight.
We have the Jefferson Ocean aged at sea. Kentucky straight bourbon. Apparently this thing has quite a story about it. I've never heard of this bourbon before tonight. I actually haven't tried it yet. So I'm very, very interested to understand what this aged at sea thing is. Senator
**Bam Bam:** and Poobah have good experience with this.
I've had
**Poobah:** a lot of experience, drank a lot of it.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Poobah:** Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Shall we have a taste? [00:27:00] Cheers boys.
**Gizmo:** Oh, that's really
**Bam Bam:** nice. That's unlike, it's almost unlike any bourbon I've ever had. It's very different.
**Gizmo:** It's very complimentary to the salt thing that we're getting in the cigar. There's no, there's something,
**Bam Bam:** but also like a little caramel, maybe vanilla in the bourbon. That's a salted caramel.
**Poobah:** Yeah, it is vanilla.
Yeah, that's what it is.
**Gizmo:** Which by the way, when you go to like a, like an elegant Candy shop. I always go for the salted caramels. That's my that's my go to.
**Poobah:** It's distinct and when senator goes through the process It'll be become very apparent why um this particular voyage along with the other voyages of jefferson ocean jefferson's ocean so very very
**Rooster:** similar notes on the cigar and in the It's very complimentary.
**Gizmo:** We're getting very good at accidentally pairing these things. This was not accidental. I've had the
**Senator:** Sobremesa and I've had [00:28:00] Jefferson's before, and I knew this was going to be perfect.
**Bam Bam:** There are no accidents in the world of the Senator up here, okay? He's
**Poobah:** a Virgo. He's very fascinating. He's fastidious.
**Bam Bam:** Everything's planned. There's a cubby for everything. Very fastidious. All the food's separate on a plate. Nothing touches.
**Poobah:** Do you fold your underwear? Of course he does. By
**Pagoda:** color. Who doesn't? He color matches it. I
**Gizmo:** don't. We haven't heard the word fastidious in quite some time. That's an old school call out.
So Senator, take us on the, uh, as Poobah said, the voyage here of, uh, Jefferson's Ocean.
**Senator:** So, just a little bit about Jefferson's, and there's not a ton because this is a newer brand and distiller within the space. It was founded in 1997, so we're talking about not even 30 years history they have. It's the brainchild of Trey Zoller and his father Chet, a famed bourbon historian.
They continued a family whiskey tradition that goes back to Trey's 8th generation grandmother, who was arrested in [00:29:00] 1799, um, for, uh, moonshining. I like this woman. So that's a badass right there. You've got a history of lizards in that family. That's for sure. So I read an interesting interview with, uh, Trey Zoller in Forbes, kind of about how he started this whole thing.
And I thought he was really candid, which I loved. He was basically saying, they asked him your idea to blend whiskey, which unheard of when he started this, uh, but now many brands do it. And what's funny is, I mean, most whiskeys are blended, yet they don't really talk about it that way. You know, you see things on the bottle like straight Kentucky bourbon whiskey.
It doesn't say blended when It is blended. I mean, we've talked about even Pappy is like, you know, lot or batch this from, uh, uh, Buffalo, uh, trace and something else from somewhere. Like it's all a blend of some form, but for some reason they just don't really talk about it. So, uh, Trey Zoller was saying, I realized if I.
Did do it like the other [00:30:00] people up the street. I didn't have a shot for several reasons. One, you know, there were only eight urban distilleries left in Kentucky in 1997. They had built up a considerable inventory because demand had decreased over the last 25 years. So they could undercut me every day of the week.
And they had the inventory to bear me. Plus they had their long heritage to lean on to sell their product. I mean, some of these distillers have been doing this for hundreds of years. And so he said, as a newcomer, um, he had to try to evolve, The spirit. And so his philosophy and I love he talks about he took kind of a winemakers approach to making a whiskey and bourbon.
And so small batch stuff was not big when he started doing this. Now you hear a lot of distillers talk about small batch bourbons. Back in 1997, that was not a thing. It was about how it was about mass production, how much volume you could produce. So he went against the grain with a lot of small batch, highly experimental stuff.
And this I think is probably one of the most fun experiments he's [00:31:00] really ever done. So this is the 26th iteration of Jefferson's ocean, uh, Aged at sea launched in 2012. They send a different batch of bourbon, literally across the world on ships. And what they just load it up in like shipping containers or something.
Pretty much. I'll get into more detail about exactly how they do it, but they take barrels of bourbon that were aged six to seven years. Load them onto ships, which then sail around the world for six months, a process that Jefferson's claims develops the bourbon more quickly through the motion of the waves and the extreme changes in temperature accelerate the maturation process for the whiskey.
Now you would read something like that and say, that's a bunch of marketing bullshit. I think, you know, there I've seen bourbons that talk about some musician came out with Metallica.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, they play the
**Senator:** music
**Bam Bam:** while they're, they
**Gizmo:** play, they play Metallica while they're still singing, singing to the bourbon [00:32:00] louder, louder, James, louder.
**Senator:** There's another one too, that's done this, that talk about the vibrations of the noise and the music, uh, you know, impact the maturation process. But when you try this, I think Bam immediately said, this is unlike any bourbon I've had. It's different. It is different and it definitely works, so I, I think clearly there's merit to, um, uh, Trey's whole idea around doing something different.
**Gizmo:** Bam, you know what they say about the motion in the ocean?
**Senator:** Oh yeah. What do they say, Bam?
**Bam Bam:** I don't know, but it's a Bam approved activity. It's not about the size of the ship,
**Senator:** it's about the motion in the ocean. It's a Bam approved activity. So a little bit more just about how they, how they produce what they do.
Um, Trey basically buys barrels from a bunch of different distillers. They don't do a lot of stuff on their own. Like I said, his, his thing is kind of blending that that's his specialty. They actually did not, they still don't own a distillery. So they actually have it distilled offsite at another location.
**Gizmo:** That seems like an important part of the process to put in someone else's [00:33:00] hands.
**Bam Bam:** Well, a lot of cigar makers do the same thing. Exactly right.
**Senator:** Yeah, and he was very candid. When he started the brand, I mean, he just didn't have the money to buy a distillery. And he was saying that, you know, most go and invest all their money into getting a distillery and kind of starting there.
And he's like, that really leaves you not much money to experiment and market the product. And so he kind of took the opposite route and invested in being able to expand in the experiment with these really crazy blends, market his product, outsource the distillation to a trusted distiller, and over time, his goal was to then be able to afford his own distillery to be able to do that.
And they got a huge investment from Pernod Ricard, obviously giant, you know, uh, conglomerate, and they're now building their own distillery. So his, his whole vision has evolved. 30 years later now, but um, they, I think within the next maybe few [00:34:00] years should have their own distillery to make all of their own product.
Right now they work with Kentucky artisan distillers where their tasting room is located in Kentucky and that's where all their bourbons. That's cool. So he invested money in
**Rooster:** the ships. You mean he bought ships? No, no, the wrong, the raw material. I'm guessing. No, but
**Poobah:** the, no, but the interesting thing is, is that When you look at the, so I've had a lot of this, a lot.
Um, and some of our have been smaller batches with markings on the bottle and things like that. There's different, I've had a lot of iterations of this, these voyages. And this doesn't, it's the kind of all in the same family. It makes sense that they're not. It's in the same style. All of these bottles, whether it's voyage, 24 voyage, 15 voyage, whatever, all have a little bit of a different spin.
It's not always exactly the same. And from what you call voyage to voyage or release to [00:35:00] release. Um, but there's a consistency to, there's like a red thread that goes through. The style, so it's all in the same style, but they're definitely distinct. Um, these different, these different releases.
**Senator:** And the cool thing to what Pooh was saying, on each bottle, they actually put a tag with the ship's log describing the journey that that specific voyage took.
to basically get to our glass. And so the interview informs I was reading at that point, they were, there were 26 of them. Now there have been 28 voyages that have made it around the world to make this stuff. And so just for fun, I'll read what it says is the ship's log. It says it was 6 a. m. when Ocean Voyage 28 headed out into the restless seas of the Atlantic.
The agitated ocean was steely gray and the red sky was ominous, looking in front of a tropical depression like a bug moving north. Our
**Bam Bam:** eyebrows are sticking out. Scowling. It sounds like a movie
**Gizmo:** script. Did I write this? Then we hit a bridge in Baltimore. It must've been[00:36:00]
**Senator:** heat and humidity continued to build as we made our way south and the clouds threatened rain at any moment. We were dock sided, uh, Manzanillo for 18 hours and another 24 hours. Holding position just outside the Panama canal, waiting for a time to transit. Wave action was slight, but the heat and humidity was oppressive through the canal and below the equator ocean voyage 28 made its long run to its anchorage in Auckland, crossing the international date line and advancing the calendar.
One day, the seas were very rough from Auckland to Spain and around Australia. The seas were angry that day, my friend, nice little visit to Rob Isla, um, to a free mantle. Heat and humidity was replaced with sea spray and cold air that defined our journey through the North Australian Basin headed for Singapore.
Air temperatures and wave conditions modified again in the South China Sea. Ports in Shanghai, Masan, Kobe, Nagoya, Makahoma, and Hitachinaka were hot and the waters were moderate, giving us a chance to [00:37:00] thaw out and regain our balance before crossing the North Pacific to Tacoma and Long Beach. Ocean Voyage 28 made another long run off the Baja Peninsula.
Through the Tropic of Cancer down in the Baja and down.
**Bam Bam:** Don't get him started.
**Senator:** Please. Puma definitely wrote this. Puma, you gotta
**Pagoda:** say it. No. You have to. Not tonight. Well, it did go.
**Poobah:** Look, I've been, I've been to the Tropic of Cancer. It's the humidity is, is, is oppressive. You're
**Bam Bam:** freaking me out, dude.
**Senator:** So through the tropic of cancer, I feel like we're still on day one of the journey. This is crazy. We're, we're, we're nearing the end. Down the coast of central America, the air was hot and heavy with moisture. Rain had been a relief, but it never came. Our transit back through the Panama canal was swift and smooth while it remained hot and sticky.
Our final days through the Caribbean and up the [00:38:00] Atlantic coast were smooth and clear. The humidity dramatic swings in temperature and ever changing sea conditions. Had the effect of bringing balance and richness to the complexity, array of flavors and tastes you'll find in Ocean Voyage 28. You see, if
**Pagoda:** it would have gone by the Indian Ocean, we would have tasted a little bit of black salt and spices.
And a little tikka.
**Bam Bam:** You
**Poobah:** know, as, as a, as a frog, as a frog, as a frog man, I can, I can, I can relate to the adventure. Uh, and I can taste the adventure in the spirit. You
**Gizmo:** can taste the adventure.
**Poobah:** I've traveled all around the world in combat and deployments.
**Gizmo:** I wonder what happens if like the ship like hits a hurricane, like of a hurricane, like conditions, like is the bourbon better? Yeah. I wonder if there's like a,
**Bam Bam:** well, there's temperature fluctuation, like you said. So it's getting hotter. It's getting cooler.
It's more humid, less humid.
**Gizmo:** It's very interesting that they've tapped [00:39:00] into the physics of, So I have a
**Bam Bam:** question. How much, how much is that bottle? 65.
**Senator:** 99 a total wine by us. And the funny thing is Poobah, Poobah had a reaction to that price. I do think that years ago this used to be more and it's come down in price.
They must be now able to make more of it because I think this used to, I, I've bought a bottle of this before. And I want to say it was 80, if not even 90 bucks at one point. Holy moly. It
**Poobah:** was, um, I remember there being, so when I picked up the bottle, I remember there used to be more like, um, markings on it, like, uh, numbered almost bottles, smaller batch bottles.
Maybe they're producing more good for them. Um, I, I think it's very, very good and it's, it's, it's becoming more ubiquitous and available. Good for them. Um, yeah. It's a great spirit. You can find it in bars. You can find it in more places now than you could, um, many years ago. I've, I've had this many [00:40:00] times over going back before COVID.
I mean, I've had this quite a bit.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Poobah:** Um, yeah. Cause I have a friend who absolutely loves it and it's always at his house. And then I started buying it myself on my own. I love it. I think it's really good. It's I think it's
**Gizmo:** 65. I think that's a very fair price for the spirit. Excellent spirit. And I think it's a wonderful pairing to the cigar.
It's working
**Rooster:** great tonight.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, it's really cool what they do with it.
**Rooster:** I mean, yeah, it's pretty unusual voyage and stuff. I mean, that's, that's very, I'll be honest.
**Gizmo:** I buy the physics of that way more than I buy Metallica playing songs as they still black and I mean, black and there's a fine whiskey. We, you know, we rated it well, but that's a good
**Bam Bam:** song.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, that's a great. I believe this a little more. I don't
**Poobah:** know how much like bourbon purists or what their point of view would be on it. We're not those people. I just really like the spirit and it's unique. And it's to me, it's differentiated. Um, Versus anything else. Nothing really tastes exactly like this for me.
Again, not a [00:41:00] huge bourbon guy. I, you know, um, not huge, but this is one that I do, uh, go for, especially around the holidays. So it's got this kind of, um, it's got, it's when you, when you taste it, it has cinnamon, it has vanilla, it's got, um, it's salty, it's got, it's got the salty component to it and I don't, it's not marketing, uh, well, The flavor profile plays right into the narrative and you know what, that's, that's good commercialization of a product.
I respect that. It
**Bam Bam:** works.
**Senator:** And I'll say for me, why this has been interesting. I think this is one of those bourbons. That also pairs really well with a Cuban cigar. Apartagus D4, the cinnamon notes and the saltiness that you get in this bourbon, I think are a home run pairing. Or a Monty. Super. Hold on. Monty too.
Monty also agreed.
**Bam Bam:** For me, a schwa would pair beautifully with this. With that ice, a schwa I
**Gizmo:** think the thing is, I think we've had [00:42:00] other bourbons that are, have a similar profile to this. But I think the thing that this is lacking versus those others, which is a good thing, is there's zero bite. There's no back of the throat burn.
There's no harshness going down. It's it's rounded out with that sweet caramel type flavor. Very easy to drink. If you, I don't know if you guys have hit the nose on this, just in the glass. Yeah. It just smells like caramel.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. And a bit of vanilla.
**Gizmo:** It's a really wonderful pairing for cigars. And I agree.
I agree. I think Cubans. Would do really well with it.
**Senator:** And the thing is, it's 45%, so it's 90 proof. It's not like it's a weaker, you know, 40 percent bourbon. It has the alcohol, you know, a volume there, but it's just delivered in a nice, smooth way.
**Bam Bam:** I can't wait for a refill. I'm kind of ready. Bottles yours.
Yeah, I mean, I'm ready too. No ice needed at this point.
**Gizmo:** So boys, we're at the halfway point here on the Sobremesa in Cervantes Fino from Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust. How's everybody feeling?
**Bam Bam:** Very satisfied. I agree with you. I think it's proving to be a very complex cigar. [00:43:00] So smooth. But simultaneously very easy to smoke.
**Poobah:** It's a little stronger through the retrohale, which is nice. Mm hmm. Little bit more, little bit more pepper, which is nice. I'm
**Gizmo:** really enjoying it.
**Poobah:** No
**Gizmo:** complaints. Would you say it's earthy? Definitely. I would say, well, I would say it's, it's, if you're going to compare earthy versus sweet, I think this is tipping to more to the earthy side than sweet, for sure.
Midway through, you're saying? Yeah, at this point. Yeah, like now. Yeah. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** I think it's a great melding of the both earthiness and a little sweetness for me at this point.
**Rooster:** Yeah, I'm not really getting sweetness right now. I'm still getting the salty twang and the earthiness has come on.
**Pagoda:** Did you have some tiki masala before?
Creme brulee. By the way, there's no such thing as tiki masala. Can you correct these fuckers? No, I want them to go and read when they go back. We'll have
**Bam Bam:** a [00:44:00] good leave that for another episode.
**Poobah:** I'm going to be out that day. Go do a tutorial at whole
**Gizmo:** foods or some shit. Senator, what do you think about the cigar halfway through?
**Senator:** I think it's great. I think it's building a little bit. I do agree that it's earthy or midway through. I don't, I still wouldn't describe this as like a very earthy cigar. Like I actually think there are Padrones that are much more earthy than this is. Um, so I think it's, it's really balanced, but, um, it's, it's developing into something a little different, which is nice here, you know, it's kind of, maybe this is its second act.
**Poobah:** Yeah. It's a little, it's getting a little bit of a barnyard kind of maybe thing going on. Um, A little bit, a little earth barnyard kind of deal, which I like, I liked it. It's, I think it, to me, this is kind of a two act play. I'm halfway through and it's changing up a little bit. It's building in strength, um, a little bit.
And I
**Gizmo:** like
**Bam Bam:** that. What about you guys? What are you getting?
**Gizmo:** So I, I'm feeling [00:45:00] very similar to what, what you guys have said. I think the barnyard thing is a very good call out. I'm not getting as much sweetness now as I was earlier on. I think that even
**Bam Bam:** in the retro, you're not getting a touch, just a touch of sweetness, but it's not as much as it was at the beginning.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** So I definitely think it's changed and I'm, I'm almost hoping, I mean, based on the conversation we had with Sokka, His appreciation for taking the smoker on a journey, you know, a couple of acts, kind of like a Cuban, like That's a
**Bam Bam:** great way of describing it. This cigar is a journey. It's a journey so far.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** I'm hoping for a third act in the last third, for sure. But I think that this is a very, very strong performer. And I like how different it is from the Sin Compromiso and the Muestra de Saca. I think this is a very, very good cigar. It's a
**Poobah:** little, I'm not saying grassy like fresh grass. I'm saying more like hayish, a little bit of earth, but not earthy like deep earth, like soil, like, like you'd get a deep earthy flavor.
Grindr would
**Pagoda:** [00:46:00] come up
**Poobah:** with the right, uh, kind of the right analogous, uh, you know, Nature, uh, volcanic ash. I mean, you mean to
**Rooster:** say miracle grow potting soil?
**Poobah:** No, but it is, it does feel, it, it, it tastes very natural to me. Kind of, it's, it's got this kind of earthy kind of organic thing going on. And it's, but it's not.
Pushing it so far where you're like, it's like, it's overpowering in a way that's not pleasant. That doesn't overpower the kind of some of those underlying sweeter notes that were present at the beginning of the cigar.
**Gizmo:** And I think the, the, the subtlety, the way the flavors are all blending together, the complexity of it, very similar to the pairing tonight.
There's zero bite in the back of your throat. I think in a lot of Nicaraguan cigars that we smoke, it starts to get a little harsh or a little bitey. And sometimes we enjoy that, but I'm really enjoying the absence of that tonight. I think that this [00:47:00] is a really, really smooth Nicaraguan cigar. And I think that it's a excellent right now.
So boys, let's go into a little bit of listener feedback on the pod tonight. Let's start with, uh, let's start with them. Let's start with some Mezcal feedback from our. Episode with Chef Ricky Camacho four weeks ago on episode 136. I mean, it was overwhelmingly positive. That was an incredible episode. He was Top to bottom.
Awesome. And he brought in some really great mezcals. Chef Ricky, kudos to you. So, I'll read a couple, uh, these, uh, two on FOH that I really liked. I just wanted to share these. This one was from Crispy Bacon. Hands down, one of my favorite episodes. I love hearing that, especially when we have Chef Ricky on.
This one is certainly from a guy who loves, uh, Mezcal. This is from Gerard Michael, Texas. Definitely love the fact that Chef Ricky Camacho recommended the Vago Espadin. I also think the Vago Elote is a pretty darn good too. I have those along with a bottle of [00:48:00] Mezcal. Jaegel Joven sitting on my bookshelf right now.
Fantastic Mezcals. Had too many Mezcal to remember when my buddy came back from Oaxaca. I can't pronounce that. Oaxaca.
**Senator:** Jesus. Ricky said it like 20 times on this.
**Bam Bam:** I like the way he said it though. Oaxaca. I think that's it. Gizmo's going to Japan instead of Mexico.
**Poobah:** It's like, it's like, it's like he's playing uh, uh, Tecmo or whatever, or baseball and it's like, it's like Josie Arribe instead of Jose Arribe.
**Pagoda:** Laughter.
**Gizmo:** Arribe. Just came back from Oaxaca. Laughter. But the ones I sampled were all pretty good. Definitely a better flavor profile than tequila. He said they made a good point about the complexity of the mezcal being more interesting than the cigar. Honestly, it will be since mezcals are overpowered versus cigars.
This is his opinion. Of course, he says that may have also been a major factor in the T 50 Tuesday. We're smoking, not being as enjoyable. So I wanted [00:49:00] to ask you guys, do you think that the mezcals, and we talked a little bit about this on the episode, but you know, a couple of weeks later now, looking back at it.
Do you think that the T 52 was just weak in general? Do you think that the Mezcals impacted our appreciation or lack of with the T 52? How do you think that that played out?
**Bam Bam:** I thought it was very, also pretty complimentary, but the Mezcal was the star of the show. No doubt about it for me.
**Senator:** I maintain that the T52 is just weak.
**Bam Bam:** I
**Pagoda:** agree with you. Mezcal was the star of the show. We were looking for the strength and it just wasn't there.
**Gizmo:** So we had some listeners also write in that they went out and purchased a bunch of the Mezcals, on, on, that, that Ricky recommended. So we had some really positive feedback. So I'm sure we'll get more as, People continue to drink that.
So, if you have any thoughts on the Mezcal Deep Dive, let us know, uh, shoot us an email. So, we have another one here. This is from Lizard Drew. He says, Brother Gizmo, I haven't finished the latest episode yet, but as I was getting out of my car, I [00:50:00] heard some statements I feel the need to comment on, as this isn't the first time statements like this have been made.
It was said that rye whiskey and foolproof bourbons don't pair well with cigars as they overwhelm the palate. These types of overarching statements do a disservice to the listener.
**Senator:** We agree. Definitive gizmo statements.
**Gizmo:** Now, in your defense, You and the other lizards admit that these spirits are the ones you have the least experience with in the past.
I was drinking barrel proof bourbons long before I picked up my first cigar. I don't put ice in anything, but I have added a few drops of water to see if I could pick up subtle changes with some. To me, these overarching statements are the same as saying, quote, don't smoke a Padron because they are too spice, spicy smoke, something more mild to pick out the best flavor notes and quote, this simply isn't true.
Initially, this may be the case for a novice smoker. But it doesn't apply to a seasoned smoker. I just feel like you need to appreciate [00:51:00] the cigar, the bourbon, the rye for what the blender and distiller is trying to present you, even if it doesn't align with your personal preferences. Anyway, keep doing what you're doing, but try to appreciate that not everyone has the same pallet of preferences and making general statements like that could sway someone away from trying something that Or a pairing they may truly enjoy.
It's a
**Bam Bam:** very fair statement.
**Gizmo:** To consider an alternate view, I think to my neighbor who drinks bourbon rye every night, but only has a cigar once a week, he may want to smoke a mild cigar with a rye as he's trying to have the cigar not impact the flavor notes he is trying to get from the spirit. Until next time,
**Bam Bam:** Drew.
Woo, a poop is teed up.
**Poobah:** Oh, I think, I think that it's a very well articulated point, and uh, he's right. We need to try
**Bam Bam:** more rye whiskeys.
**Gizmo:** We do, I just haven't had a good experience with it. I was joking when I said that. Does
**Rooster:** he give any recommendations?
**Bam Bam:** That's a good
**Rooster:** point.
**Gizmo:** No, I will ask him for some. Ask him for some.
I will. I wanted to read that to you guys, [00:52:00] and get your thoughts on it. Um, you know, certainly, I, you know, I always think about the cigar first, and I think about the spirit second. Um, obviously, we've, we've done a much deeper dive in a lot of spirits. Obviously, we've done a Mezcal deep dive, a tequila deep dive.
We've really gone down the rabbit hole in a lot of spirits. So, I appreciate what he's saying. You know, there's not much I mean,
**Rooster:** but
**Gizmo:** we
**Rooster:** are a cigar
**Gizmo:** podcast, so we do Cigar first, of course. Cigar
**Rooster:** first. No, I know, but look,
**Senator:** uh, when Giz made this statement, he did I mean, I, even as someone who, I don't love rye, but I, I don't believe that Rye as a category does not pair well with cigar.
I don't buy that at all. That's true. Like, these categories are so expansive, right? There, there are plenty of scotches that I have no interest in having with a cigar that are extraordinarily peaty, that I think would just overpower the hell out of most things that we smoke. So, to me, it's just finding, I think that there are some, like, well balanced ryes.
I can't remember these brands off the top of my head. Like, I know I've tried when I'm with, guys who love bourbon and love Rye different stuff, and I've been really pleasantly surprised, [00:53:00] but we definitely need recommendations because I do believe that there are rise out there that would actually work.
**Rooster:** You guys have done that many rides. So it's a very small sample for
**Bam Bam:** me. It's a, it seems like a niche category, but for many people, it's a very vast category because they know more about it.
**Pagoda:** I think we've done only one, right? The angels envy. No,
**Senator:** I think we've done more than more
**Pagoda:** than we did a whistle. We did a
**Senator:** whistle, pig, piggyback, right as well.
Or that did not
**Pagoda:** score well.
**Senator:** No,
**Pagoda:** I really liked the angels and me, right.
**Gizmo:** But yeah, that was a great email. I appreciate the constructive feedback, you know, because like we've talked about, you know, um, certainly a generalized statement like that. I understand what everybody's saying, but we look at the cigar first and that's how my brain and what we're doing here.
I'm always thinking, how does this compliment the cigar? Not the other way around. So, you know, that's just how I felt about rise. But, um, We have to try more and hopefully we'll find some that we love because I feel like in every category We have found spirits that we love.
**Poobah:** Yeah, because bourbon bourbon aficionados are In loving bourbon is a thing.
It's not [00:54:00] just a thing. It's a huge thing. Um, it's
**Gizmo:** bigger
**Poobah:** thing than cigars. I would argue Yeah, well, maybe, um, a hundred percent, I think, is it, I don't know. Yeah, it probably is. So, you know, there's a lot of folks out there, um, who really appreciate, um, bourbon in a way that, You know that we don't, I mean, we're not, we've always proclaimed, we're not, we're not bourbon aficionados.
We don't claim to be, it's not something that we're, we claim to have a whole lot of expertise in, but we're trying these things and we're experimenting with this, these things and trying to just grow and learn with it. And, um, so it's, I think it's a good email just to give some perspective to it. But again, those, some of those, you know, I guess it takes a lot of trial and error and it's a different kind of commitment to that kind of a spirit, you know, some of the high proof stuff, you know, yeah, is, is maybe it's a different kind of hobby.
**Bam Bam:** Every [00:55:00] bourbon guy that I know that I've talked to, they love that high octane experience that they get from the heart of the barrel. Right. The deep bourbon guys, they love that high proof experience. It's unlike anything that I've ever had or want to have for me personally. I mean, I can, I can appreciate it.
Of course. I appreciate it
**Poobah:** for what it is. And we've had some of those good high proof bourbons, but it's, I think it, you know, like anything else, Like cigars, I mean, um, you know, you start with cigars and you start with mild cigars and you build and you know what I mean? And you kind of, your palate develops.
And I think it's, I would hypothesize that it's the same with bourbon, the more sophisticated and the more deep dive you go down the rabbit hole of it. You're, you're, you're kind of searching for more. And I, I would suspect with that hobby, you know, you're, you're, you're searching for more, you're searching that higher proof that whatever they call it, the heart, the heart of the, you know, the heart, the [00:56:00] real true heart of the barrel or whatever they call it.
Um, you know, so I
**Gizmo:** get it. Well, this is also a call out to listeners. If you're a bourbon, a passionate listener out there, please send us some recommendations that you think we would love. I mean, out of maybe all the spirits we've done, we have not gotten many wry, Bergman recommendation. We that would pair well with cigars.
Yes, exactly. Right. Yeah. So change my opinion. I would love to have some wonderful experiences with Ryan. So boys, let's continue with the gizmo accountability hour. I hesitate to play this, but we have another voice memo.
**Bam Bam:** Are we continuing? Our beginning, we're only started.
**Gizmo:** Here we go. Here's a voice memo from our friend tuxedo Timmy.
**Bam Bam:** So now I will not play into this. I'm moving my mic.
**Tuxedo Timmy:** I'm not exactly sure how you guys pick cigars, but. I have this inclination that Gizmo kind of leads the charge in which cigars you guys are going to review. And I did a little [00:57:00] audit of Not true. All the podcasts that you guys have done. And I figure you guys have done About 140 reviews.
It's not surprising to me, because we all know Gizmo just despises anything over a 50 ring gauge.
**Bam Bam:** Correct. That's true.
**Tuxedo Timmy:** But at least 82 of the 140 episodes that you guys have done, have been a ring gauge of 50 or less. And we could actually say that number is closer than 92 or 95 given all the pyramids and belly cosos that you guys have reviewed, because those are truly not 52 ring gauge in the mouth.
They're more like a 48 or a 50 in the mouth or even less. And so, you know, I, I, I find it just a little preposterous. that there's such a, uh, bias amongst the lizards for ring gauge of 50 or less. [00:58:00] Lanceros, Petit Coronas, Lonsdells, Robustos, and we all know there's, there's so many fabulous cigars out there, like the Connie B, which you guys loved.
That's a ring gauge of a 54, I believe. There's so many great cigars out there that are greater than 50 on the ring gauge. And I just think you guys are doing a big disservice to the community. By only reviewing or primarily reviewing cigars that have a ring gauge of 50 or less. So, um, I'm expecting all of you guys to hold Gizmo accountable and select more cigars that have a ring gauge of greater than 50.
**Pagoda:** Yes, Timmy. Like that. Gotta
**Tuxedo Timmy:** hold this guy accountable.
**Poobah:** Well, all I have to say is quote unquote. Another Lancero boys, another Lancero tonight [00:59:00] for the pod, another Lonsdale, another Lonsdale tonight.
**Senator:** Uh, even Gizmo looked at this cigar before he cut. And he's like, is this a Lonsdale? No, it's
**Poobah:** a 46. I said, no, it's 46.
And I never even saw the cigar before. Um, Timmy. I mean, that's a shot over the, a shot over the bow. It's pretty right on the money. It's pretty right on
**Senator:** the money. I, I just think Tuxedo Timmy needs to add Esquire at the end of his name. I also
**Bam Bam:** think he has way too much time on his hands. That was
**Senator:** perfectly articulated the case and Gizmo is guilty as charged.
**Bam Bam:** Totally. He's totally guilty as charged. I mean, for
**Senator:** instance, this cigar. In
**Bam Bam:** my book, you're innocent.
**Senator:** Thank you
**Bam Bam:** ba. All right. I
**Senator:** appreciate
**Bam Bam:** you. Correct. I am guilty. I am careful. Giz sequestering myself out of this commentary.
**Senator:** Careful Giz. He expects an Opus Dubai in Return. .
**Bam Bam:** I got plenty of those by, by the way.
**Senator:** Speaking of tuxedo, Timmy. So what did he think of the Opus Dubai that you sent him? You, you would've sent it by now, right? He said it by now. He had it on
**Bam Bam:** his golf cart. I [01:00:00] saw it, so, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what do you say the, the glove fits so
**Gizmo:** you
**Bam Bam:** can't
**Gizmo:** equip . Alright, let me ask a question. So, obviously, I love Lanceros, Lonsdales, et cetera.
Coronas, we know that. We had a good run of Lanceros and Lonsdales, and I felt A good run? We felt We felt An eternity. An eternity run. That's true. I feel like that's an under celebrated Line of cigars. Everybody loves to smoke big ring. I know, but you went a
**Poobah:** little
**Gizmo:** far.
**Bam Bam:** I mean, let's just, am I wrong? You are the recruitment master.
**Poobah:** He went a little far, but, but, but, but so in, but in Gizmo's defense, he does a lot of work for the show. He does a lot of, this is not an atonement. I'm
**Senator:** not, it's not a, and also, also in Gizmo's defense, as we've seen with his photos, he has small hands.
**Poobah:** He does actually. Come on. That is not true. He's
**Bam Bam:** like an Ewok.
Okay. I
**Poobah:** wish you guys, it's not, it's not, [01:01:00] it's
**Bam Bam:** not a lie because when he sends a photograph of a cigar, it looks like a baseball bat in his hand. There is something that is true. No, that's correct.
**Gizmo:** Measured our
**Poobah:** hands are yours. About the same. No, a half Corona looks like, looks like a Corona Gorda in his hand, in his Ewok hand.
**Bam Bam:** So Louisville slugger in his hand, dude,
**Poobah:** he's an Ewok, his hairline is an Ewok. He's got a beard. He's like an Ewok, but, but, but anyway, I think that the point is well taken. Uh, and, uh, Maybe we'll make a conscious effort as, as a group to, uh, to do some larger rings, ring gauge cigars. Uh, I think it's, I think it's duly noted.
**Senator:** I think, look, even just taking. A listener's perspective out of this. If you just, we've talked about where the global market is headed in cigars. It is larger ring gauge stuff. And so I do think we have responsibility to review some larger ring gauge sticks. And I even think like for this cigar, like, you know, I could have bought a box of any size that they make.
And my preference was to have this [01:02:00] in a 52 ring gauge Robusto Largo. And even smoking this, I do prefer that Robusto Largo to this cigar. And so I think there's some merit to what Tuxedo Timmy is saying there. And I really think that we ought to be
**Poobah:** keeping that in mind. We should do more, more larger, uh, ring gauge cigars and explore some of these things.
And, uh, I think it's constructive feedback. Thank you, Tuxedo Timmy. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Um, I'd like to hear some recommendations from the listeners on some larger, larger ring gauge cigars. I agree. Absolutely. I mean, we could
**Rooster:** have done this in a Robusta. I think it would have taken the same amount of time. Yeah, it would have for sure.
For sure.
**Poobah:** Definitely.
**Gizmo:** Totally. For Tuxedo Timmy's point, I think there's definitely validity in the new world space. There's no question about that. When I'm looking for a new world, I'm always looking for something a little leftist center, you know, that, that's not a standard Robusto. I'm always looking for that.
We do Robusto sometimes. We did the Davidoff a couple of weeks ago. And
**Senator:** every time we do a Liga, Gizmo's like, I ordered the Corona Viva. Every time that's your like go to, when Pagoda is the one I was [01:03:00] saying, like the larger ones are much better.
**Bam Bam:** And then he sits down disgruntled. He's got a small ring gauge cigar in his hand.
**Rooster:** You know, bigger ring gauge cigars are also, but also cooler. You know, the smoke cooler.
**Bam Bam:** Are there many, are there many Cuban cigars in the larger ring gauge?
**Rooster:** Now there are. Sure there are, you got the Connie
**Poobah:** A, you got the Connie B. We did those. I think we've done, I think we've done more Cuban bigger
**Gizmo:** ring gauge cigars than we've done New World.
By the way,
**Pagoda:** I did ask a couple of guys about this, like, why do you prefer the larger ring? And it's pure economics. They'd rather get a larger cigar, which may be just a couple of dollars more than something really small. So you're
**Gizmo:** saying it's like a value thing?
**Pagoda:** It's a value thing.
**Rooster:** It's also, I think, different, different time of the day.
You want a different, you know, different size of a cigar. I mean, it could be a petite Corona in the morning. You want a little bit larger cigar maybe after lunch. Correct. Maybe a Churchill after dinner. There are
**Pagoda:** very few of us who [01:04:00] smoke four or five cigars a day. Is that right? Yeah. It's uh, you know, typically like, it's really interesting.
I was at Carnegie the other day and I was speaking to the manager and I said, do you see a lot of the repeat crowd coming? He said, you'd be surprised. It's uh, There are very few repeat customers. So a lot of people come.
**Senator:** You are the repeat customer? I am, that's why
**Pagoda:** we treat it really well. But what's surprising is there are a few.
It's just as a total percentage, it's a lot of people will just come once in a while or, you know, to celebrate or for an event. And it's really interesting that if you really Try and get an understanding of what the real market is. Uh, you don't have people who are smoking every day. Maybe that percentage is probably lower.
**Poobah:** Well, that's why they don't repair the furniture in the Carnegie. Thank you. The furniture, the furniture,
**Bam Bam:** it's not that bad. Well, not that bad. It's
**Pagoda:** better now. It's better now. It is better now. Remember the last time you went there? [01:05:00] Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** it's
**Poobah:** 1950s,
**Bam Bam:** 50s, 50s.
**Poobah:** No, you're talking rooster. I was there maybe like, I don't know, a year and a half ago.
**Pagoda:** No, no, it's, it's what they fixed the rip furniture. Yeah, no, they did reupholster everything. Reupholster. Well, I got to say it like it is.
**Poobah:** Hey man, look, the, look, the Grand Havana Club, I mean, their furniture made that place look like, uh, made the Grand Havana room look like the Taj Mahal. I mean, and their furniture was getting beat up, uh, towards the end, but that place was fantastic.
I, I, I, I had so many great times at the grand Havana room. Um, me too. Every time, uh, every time you were up there, you saw two people.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. All we know who
**Poobah:** you saw Al Sharpton and Giuliani Rudy Giuliani. They were there every time. Uh, Donald Trump jr, uh, Eric Trump, big [01:06:00] A list crowd. Oh yeah. Well, well. Well, let's not get political now.
This is a cigar. It's on both sides. He
**Gizmo:** started with Sharpton and Giuliani. I'm loving them both together. By the way, I like this because the heat's off me. Correct. So, so, yeah, but also
**Poobah:** the whole CBS golf, like crew, like when the U S open would be in town at like wing list. Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, I'm just saying you see a lot of people up there and it was a great place to get a DC
**Rooster:** with me
**Poobah:** Know the Grand Havana room had a lot of that was a great cigar lounge.
I'm sorry. It was I spent a lot of me
**Bam Bam:** too I'm there.
**Senator:** I was up there a lot. It was great. Yeah food was great. Yeah, everything else Needed. That's why they were looking to update that place. And they just got kicked out. They couldn't get their lease. That's right. There were
**Rooster:** some impressive names on the lockers, I must say.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Who, who never came. No. Arnold was on there and he never came. Yeah, he was, Mel
**Rooster:** Gibson never came, was not there. The Baldwin, [01:07:00] his name was on there. They're on a lot of Yeah. Who don't
**Poobah:** come, they don't actually show up. But, but, but, but in all due respect, Senator, it, there were all there. I've been up there where there's a lot of people who, um, let's just put it this way, who are power players who aren't famous?
that were in that lounge a lot. I'm talking like huge, huge hedge fund managers and real estate,
**Bam Bam:** big real estate,
**Poobah:** huge bankers, huge power players that have more, actually more power, um, to move markets and, you know, Do shit than fucking Rudy Giuliani and Al Sharpton. You would see people in there. It's like, that's that guy.
That's that guy. It was a place to go. And it was an experience. I mean, I, I enjoyed, I never had a bad night there, so I'll go with that. I mean, my bet, one of the, there's nothing better than going to, Going to a night and sitting down at Rao's taking a car [01:08:00] downtown and then, and then going to the grand Havana room.
I mean, it's just, what a fantastic, I wish I got to
**Gizmo:** experience it. I never did. It was cool. It was really, really cool spot that much. I was all
**Poobah:** right. I thought it was very New York and very different perspectives. I take
**Bam Bam:** the elevator up. You're anticipating your cigar. You sit down that I do. I always had a good time.
**Senator:** Desperately needed to be replaced. Correct. And the drop ceiling was
**Bam Bam:** awful.
**Senator:** It's. See ceiling was awful. The, the, the TVs were smaller than the Davidoff lounge. We used to be members at the, the service was spotty. Sometimes it was good. Sometimes it was not. The only things that were consistent was that view was always spectacular and the meal was always great.
The meal is good, but everything else outside of that, like, you know, it's usually a bunch of like seedless people,
**Poobah:** sorry. It wasn't, I mean, I don't know. I never had that experience. I mean, I'm the more.
**Senator:** Sorry, the hedge fund celebrities. How
**Poobah:** did we get into this?
**Gizmo:** I'm
**Poobah:** [01:09:00] loving
**Gizmo:** it because
**Poobah:** we totally bounced off of a tuxedo.
Timmy's a voice memo. I don't know. I always had good times there. Um, I'm not saying it's a bad time. I'm
**Senator:** just saying for, for what it is meant to be, it, it, it left more to be desired as far as the aesthetic and the full experience, I'm not saying that I went there and had a bad time. I mean, the people that you're with usually dictate a lot of that.
I'm just saying that that's the most expensive place you could smoke a cigar in the city. They have another location in LA that is dramatically better in terms of the experience. And I just think that, you know, they knew they needed to do more. Yeah. So they were literally going to update that entire space.
They had a
**Bam Bam:** whole plan for it and they just lost their lease. Yeah. Yeah,
**Poobah:** exactly. I mean, it was, I have a lot of good memories there. So I'll leave it at that. I mean, I enjoyed it. Um, kind of
**Gizmo:** cool. So back to tuxedo, Timmy.
**Bam Bam:** Okay.
**Gizmo:** I will be more mindful of getting bigger re engaged cigars for us.
**Bam Bam:** This is a very weak [01:10:00] atonement.
I'm
**Gizmo:** loving it.
**Bam Bam:** Okay.
**Gizmo:** This is
**Bam Bam:** fantastic. Very, very poor.
**Poobah:** Thank you. Tuxedo Timmy.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Very poor. This is, this is, this is, this is, this is,
**Poobah:** we're like arguing about the merits of the Grand Havana room, which has been defunct for like four years.
**Bam Bam:** This is like a soft hug of an atonement. Okay. I
**Poobah:** mean, like, there's like no cigar bars left in New York City.
This is a soft hug. It's like based on what was available and he's going
**Bam Bam:** off on a tangent, but no,
**Poobah:** but here's the thing though, but based on like best available experience to smoke a cigar, what are we talking about? We're talking about the grand abandonment. We're going back to pound on him, but we're avoiding him.
What I'm saying is, is that like best available experience? Like what was better than that? You're going to go to Hudson bar and books and like jam yourself into it. What was the, what was the ring gauge there? That
**Pagoda:** shit hole.
**Poobah:** What was the ring gauge of the Hudson Bar and Book Cigar?
**Pagoda:** That's true. You know what
**Poobah:** I'm saying?
The Hudson Bar and Book Cigar? You've been there? In Chelsea? Fucking, you know what I'm talking about. I know,
**Pagoda:** exactly. You're gonna
**Poobah:** jam yourself in the Hudson Bar and Books and have [01:11:00] a cigar? Where are you going? The Carnegie Club? Can I get a resale? Sucks in there too.
**Pagoda:** That's all I want.
**Poobah:** The
**Pagoda:** Macanudo Club, it sucks too.
Yeah, but they're like, you know, they're less than 11. I think last of 11, now I think they're nine cigar lounges in the city. Right, there's no place to go. I mean, you
**Poobah:** know.
**Pagoda:** And soon there'll be just one.
**Poobah:** You got merchants. That place sucks too. I mean, it kind of sucks. Does it not kind of suck? Am I wrong?
Used to be better. That was uh, right. It used to be back in the day, Matt Sherman was a great place to go. Love that.
**Pagoda:** Yeah.
**Poobah:** To have a smoke. I mean, you, you know, that was a better lounge, but it wasn't a restaurant.
**Bam Bam:** This is unbelievable. You are getting off easy. Puma. You need to go to a
**Rooster:** metropolitan social club.
**Bam Bam:** And this guy, he can't like keep himself from supporting what he's saying. And when this guy's over here just hanging out.
**Rooster:** All right. Let's get back to Gizmo. Okay. So what are we doing? I [01:12:00] mean, uh, are we going to smoke some big cigars or what? Are we, I don't want to see another fucking Lansero again.
**Poobah:** Another Lansero tonight. No more
**Rooster:** Lanseros. Nothing, nothing under a 54. All right. You get that. I just feel
**Senator:** very vindicated that I wasn't alone in saying another Lansero. It was just endless. You need to
**Bam Bam:** put a jawbreaker in your mouth. Okay. You don't need to feel vindicated. The whole group felt like that.
Okay.
**Senator:** Well, thank you. Gizmo gave
**Bam Bam:** me a lot
**Senator:** of
**Pagoda:** shit about this. Right, Pagoda? I totally agree. Some
**Gizmo:** of those Lanceras were good. No, no, they were. They were great. That's all I was going to say to round it out. You look at the ratings, we've made some good choices. We found some great stuff. That's all I'm going to say.
But we will bring in some bigger ringage stuff. And we have been. We've moved away from those. We had a good stint, a good run of those. But, uh, we've moved away. So, we'll be heading into Giz, would you be able
**Pagoda:** to fit a six earrings? Six earrings?
**Gizmo:** 60 ring gauge cigar. G cigar. I don't know. I'm a little nervous about it, but we're gonna do it for you guys.
We're gonna 60 ring gauge
**Pagoda:** cigar. [01:13:00] The placencia, ,
**Poobah:** the octagon, the, when I was in the octagon,
**Gizmo:** was never in the octagon. We're in the last third here on Sobremesa. Yeah. Let's get back. Thanks Sino. What's everybody thinking about the score?
**Pagoda:** Thinking. Yeah, I really like it. Uh, it's, uh, I, I didn't find the flavor profile changed that much.
It was, you know, reasonably very similar. There was some development, but, um, overall really enjoyed, enjoyed it. But you know, like for me, I liked the really. good smoke output, you know, the, the easy draw, uh, you know, something within my flavor profile. And I think it's, it's just right there. So, um, I really enjoyed it.
**Poobah:** I enjoyed it very much. I just put mine down, um, because I was at the end. It didn't change a ton, but for me, I [01:14:00] liked it a lot. I mean, uh, I would, I would buy these. I would recommend these to a friend. It's an approachable cigar. It got stronger down the stretch, but nothing really offensive. So I liked it. I mean, it was, this is very good.
**Senator:** Yeah. I feel the same way. I think the final third of this, I lost a lot of the sweetness and it really just was primarily earthy.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. There's a lot of minerality now, which I like.
**Senator:** I like, but I wish it would have kept some more. And I just say that again, I mean, I think the Robusto Largo in this, for anybody who likes a cigar, I think they really ought to try it.
It's a completely
**Bam Bam:** different experience,
**Senator:** right? Gizmo didn't, didn't listen. He's intimidated
**Bam Bam:** by the ring gauge. I mean, what can I, what are you going to say? It's a little pick.
**Senator:** Those, for those hands,
**Gizmo:** I have the same size hands as bam, so you say bam, would you agree that we have the same size [01:15:00] hands? Did we measure one?
Yes, we did. No, I think we were very drunk that night
**Poobah:** though. No kids, kids can't palm a tennis ball.
**Gizmo:** We're going to do it right now.
**Poobah:** No, we're not. I'm not getting up.
**Bam Bam:** I am. You're going to come over here. I ain't doing it. He can't palm a mini ball,
**Poobah:** a pinky ball, a mini basketball. He there's no way he can palm.
I have a
**Bam Bam:** pretty big hand. We're pretty much a marble and we're, we're there. We're pretty much there. No. Yeah, we are. No, it's, it's about there.
**Pagoda:** That's like a love story. His hand is like half
**Bam Bam:** your size.
**Poobah:** It's like a love
**Bam Bam:** story. I
**Poobah:** wish the listener could see. That was very, that was relatively gay. Very touchy.
You know, I will say I
**Bam Bam:** got aroused a little bit there.
**Gizmo:** Hey, not that there's anything wrong with that. Bam and I have the same hands and he's formidable as we know.
**Bam Bam:** I
**Gizmo:** just am very bad at taking photos with my
**Poobah:** phone. Except Bam has like sausage fingers and if he fucking puts them around your throat, you're gonna die.
**Gizmo:** So boys, on a positive gizmo note. [01:16:00] Very
**Bam Bam:** gentle.
**Gizmo:** Positive gizmo note talking about another program I wanted to share with our listeners that I did a video interview with our friend Rob Isla from Friends of El Habano on the FOH member deep dive. Wonder what the ring gauge was you smoked during that. I had, I smoked a, uh, I smoked a Cohiba Siglo 4 to start.
Nice. And then I went into a, Uh, Pyramiddy from the nudies program from, uh, Mofo. Now, now Rob,
**Rooster:** Rob was smoking a big ring gauge cigar. There was a big cigar. There
**Gizmo:** we go. I don't, I didn't have access to that one. I've been smoking it with him. He didn't smoke that one. Well, you, you, 54 by seven. It's so little to choose from in your tower.
You couldn't
**Senator:** have possibly found anything over 50 ring gauge. You only have like eight Lucy cabs. Yeah, you need to have access.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, it's a meager collection. How long was that? Overall, you know, about two hours, two hours. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. It was a great conversation. He asked me to do it. It was the first time, obviously I've been on video.
Uh, so if you want to check that out, it's the FOH member deep dive [01:17:00] episode. Number two. With lizard gizmo on FOH TV on YouTube. Check that out. Um, I've got some great feedback. It was really nice. Poobah actually called me. It was cool.
**Poobah:** Oh, it was, uh, I thought I really thought the interview that you did with Rob Iowa was exemplary in all seriousness.
I, I, I watched it from, from whistle to whistle and I thought. All sincerity, you represented the ethos of, of like what, you know, what we talk about here and what we do, um, what this podcast is about in, in, in such an accurate way. Also, you know, you've lived the life. That's very interesting. A lot of people don't know, uh, Cosmos, you know, was a Grammy nominated producer.
Artist manager, an artist manager, um, you know, and has a lot of talent. He's our Grammy nominated. That was before us. But, but in all seriousness has lived a very interesting life and they had a great [01:18:00] personal conversation about their journey into cigars and, um, uh, how that developed. And also, just really exemplified the ethos of this, of this podcast.
So dare
**Bam Bam:** I say that his cigar journey really began with us as a group. And I said that. Oh, we know. Yeah. I think that's the same for all of us. Yeah.
**Poobah:** Well, of course we all have been on this journey together. That's what I'm, that's the point of making it. You know, he really, he really painted a picture that was very accurate of our journey as friends.
Yep. Um, and have. The, you know, the genesis of this podcast. So, so I thought it was, I thought it was fabulous. Agreed.
**Pagoda:** I listened to about 10%. I was just really, really surprised to learn.
**Gizmo:** Thanks Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** That you had some economics and finance in your background. I
**Gizmo:** was like, what?
**Pagoda:** Should have been
**Senator:** a banker. This honest, that's where he learned to do payroll at
**Poobah:** 2 a.
m. That's true. That's true. I also thought that the, the, you know, for the [01:19:00] listener, I would highly recommend watching it because I think, um, Rob Isla as kind of, as an experienced YouTuber did a very good job of, of, um, Uh, with the interview and, and, and the chemistry between the both of you, I thought was, uh, was really, really, it was, it was really terrific and I'm not blowing smoke.
It was, it was really nice.
**Bam Bam:** Agreed.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, I got some, I got some amazing comments, you know, from in the room here and also from, from listeners and folks on FOH and on the YouTube comments. So it was very, very kind. So check it out. The FOH member deep dive. On, uh, FOH TV on YouTube. All right, boys, we're coming to the end of our evening here with Jefferson's Ocean, Aged at Sea, Kentucky Stray Bourbon, and then Dunbarton, so Burmesa.
And Cervantes Fino. Any final thoughts here before we move into our ratings?
**Bam Bam:** So, for me, the bourbon stole the show as I get into really the final third of the cigar. This, the cigar is good, but it, it didn't end, it's not ending very well for me. [01:20:00] But the bourbon is spectacular. And it's really, I think, holding up the cigar very well.
**Pagoda:** I do think the pairing was great. It was excellent. And, you know, like for me, I did not get a lot of the sweetness. I think some of you guys got and, you know, considering that this is a San Andreas filler, it's definitely a wrapper. Yeah, you know, typically they can have a little bit of the chocolatey coffee along with the earthy minerality, uh, components to it.
So, you know, I was, Somewhat expecting that. I didn't get that. But I think the bourbon really complimented it really well with, you know, obviously the caramel vanilla. And it was just overall very, very good. I think the pairing was fantastic. Like if we could rate the pairing, that'd be another thing. Sure.
**Gizmo:** The thing about the bourbon Please Pagoda, let's rate the pairing. The thing about the bourbon is Steve Saka, as we know, is a big bourbon guy. Yes, he is. Always drinking bourbon with cigars. He's got bourbon
**Bam Bam:** bottles at his feet. Yeah,
**Gizmo:** he loves it. So it's a very appropriate how well I think the [01:21:00] bourbon pair with this.
I'm curious what he thinks of this specific bourbon. To answer your question, Pagoda, one more time. The wrapper is Nicaraguan Pennsylvanian. The binder is San Andres Negro. And the filler is Ecuadorian Habano. Those are the, uh, the three components of this cigar. All right, boys, let's move into the formal liquor rating now on the Jefferson's Ocean Aged at Sea Kentucky Straight Bourbon.
Bam Bam, you're up.
**Bam Bam:** So I think I'm at a 10 with this bottle. It's the one of the most, for me, the unique bourbons that I've ever had. Started off beautifully and it was very easy to drink. And my second glass was neat. Extremely enjoyable. 10.
**Pagoda:** A nine for me. I, I think it was a great bourbon for me because I'm not a big bourbon drinker, as you know, but there was no sharpness to it at all.
And with, you know, a chip of ice, I think it cooled it down and it was just fantastic and paired really well with the cigar. So it's a nine for me.
**Senator:** Senator. I'm, I'm also at a nine. [01:22:00] I mean, I love this bourbon. I think Bam describing it as so unique is exactly right. You know, correct. It's, it's so flavorful yet such a smooth delivery.
It's versatile. I, there are countless cigars that I would pair this with. And I don't say that about many bourbons. So I think it deserves a lot of credit for that. I think as much. As it's tempting to look at the whole by the sea thing as a marketing gimmick. I think it, because it imparts such a unique flavor
**Bam Bam:** and
**Senator:** experience, I think clearly there's merit to it.
And I do respect what they're doing at Jefferson's. And, um, I would definitely recommend this. I mean, I had a bourbon drinker recommend this to me years ago. Um, they have this at Shelly's in DC and a number of places I go. And so, uh, every now and then I'll get a glass. It's a strong nine. And I think kind of a staple
**Bam Bam:** that touch of saltiness just makes it so different.
And Senator, you said it earlier, it would pair great with the right Cuban [01:23:00] for sure. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** So I think for me, it's a nine. It's been a nine since we started. I don't think it, it, it touches that 10 for me where I think about some of the other bourbons that we have that were just like an instant 10, especially the two Wellers we did the special preserve and the Weller 12.
I gravitate closer to this than the Weller for
**Bam Bam:** me personally. Yeah. Because it's so different. High praise. That's interesting. That is high praise. It's
**Gizmo:** just, it's just a little different. I love, I love the saltiness of this bourbon. I think that is a very unique note that I don't know if we've ever said that about a bourbon before.
Obviously pairing very well with this cigar tonight, to what you guys just said, I think it pairs, could pair very well with a Cuban cigar. I like that it doesn't have a bite. It doesn't, it's not harsh at all. So I think even with something that's mild, medium, like a, you know, like a Cuban few that we noted earlier.
I think it would do very, very well. So I'm looking forward to trying it with a Cuban and seeing how it does. But for me, it's a nine.
**Poobah:** Yeah. For me, it's a, it's a solid nine. Look, it's not, um, it's not Weller. Okay. It's, you know, [01:24:00] we've had great Weller aged with, you know, age statement. Weller. Um, I think that that's, uh, that, I believe that that ranked at a 10 almost all around, um, And there's more to explore there, uh, with Weller.
Um, it's not that okay. So, but it's different and it's really, really good. It's a solid nine for me. Um, it's, it's very approachable. It's, it's, it pair really pairs well with cigars. Um, it, like everyone said, I'll, I'll echo that. It has that kind of salty caramel. It's like a salty caramel vanilla. Flavor. And I think it's approachable for, you know, anyone who likes scotch.
If you like scotch, you'll like this. The proof is, you know, it's not hot. So for me, it's a nine. I think it's really terrific. But is it, is it like a classic expression of [01:25:00] bourbon? No, it's not that kind of classic expression, but it, but what, what gives it merit is that it's differentiated. It's different.
Oh yeah. And, um, in a really, really good way. So it's a nine for me.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, that puts the formal liquor rating tonight on the Jefferson's ocean aged at sea Kentucky straight bourbon at a 9. 2.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Good rating.
**Gizmo:** That's a perfect rating for this. I
**Bam Bam:** agree. It
**Senator:** is. I'm glad Ben gave it a 10.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Honestly, that unique, that uniqueness just.
Put it over the edge for me.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, well, that's a wonderful spirit.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, you're not getting those notes in a weller No, you're just not it's different. It is it's different it is
**Gizmo:** and I'm curious now that we're you know that I've had this I'm gonna buy a bottle of this how it me too where it's gonna stack when I you know Reach into my humidor and grab something how it's gonna pair with with a variety of different cigars.
Yeah,
**Poobah:** right It's it's not a classic. It's not a classic expression of it If you were to say like a classic expression of, of what Cabernet should be like a, a classic expression of what a California Cabernet, [01:26:00] the kind of structure that that has, it doesn't have the same kind of structure that, that a classic bourbon perhaps would have.
It's a different, it's a kind of a different thing, but I think on its own feet, it stands
**Senator:** up. And I think that's why it pairs so well with cigars. Because, again, there's a reason that we're not pursuing bourbon as aggressively as we are many other spirits. Because a lot of bourbons don't pair as well with cigars, and some do.
Hey, be careful. I got yelled at for that. Yeah. No, no, no. That's what I'm saying. That's why your
**Bam Bam:** ratings are a little low. Not, not all.
**Senator:** But I think that, because of the saltiness and some of those different notes that you get, I mean, that's what I'm saying. To me, that was a Cuban of any bourbon that we've done outside of like a 200 bottle of Weller 12 year, right?
Well, we're special reserve though. That's well with a Cuban. Yeah, absolutely. It does. It does. But the notes, the actual flavor notes in this, I would pair this with a Partagas [01:27:00] D4. I think that would be a more ideal pairing than the Weller special reserve. I'm taking out the 12 year. That is the best bottle of bourbon.
I've ever had no price point is a whole other stratosphere compared to this or the Weller special reserve. But just I'm thinking of like a specifics Cuban cigar that obviously I love. I would put this with that D four. Um, I'd give this a notch above just from a pairing standpoint than I would the Weller special reserve.
And I think, you know, when Poobah says it's not a classic expression of bourbon, he's right. And I think that's what makes it so, you know, ideal to pair with cigars. Because I think A very just traditional bourbon doesn't have some of those notes that we would want to pair with tobacco that might have some of that salty twang or some of those, um, you know, dried fruit, you know, not to make a joke about them, but just dried fruit notes.
Correct. I, I just think, you know, a lot of, Traditional bourbon is [01:28:00] just very like corn kind of sweet and very straightforward. And I think that some either higher age statement bourbons or just more complex, very excessively priced bourbons. are done in a more complex way that just lend themselves better to pair with a Cuban cigar or a New World cigar like we just smoked.
**Bam Bam:** There is a bit of a journey in that glass of this. A voyage, if you will. Yeah. Okay. I love that.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's move on to the formal wizard rating now on the Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust Sobremesa. And Sir Bontes Fino, Rooster, you're up. So the,
**Rooster:** the cigar didn't really blow me away. I mean, it was, uh, the cigar was earthy and, and the prominent note for me was that saltiness that kind of lasted throughout the cigar.
It kind of felt like it, like I needed a little bit more from the cigar. So I was kind of at like an, maybe an eight till about the halfway point, but the last [01:29:00] third, Kind of lost it. You know, I wanted more out of the out of the cigar. I was hoping for some other kind of distinct note that would come out or maybe it would pick up in strength and it didn't really pick up in strength.
It kind of got more muddled and muted towards the end. Um, so for that reason, I'm at a I'm at a seven. Wow.
**Poobah:** For me, I thought the cigar was very good and it's a high recommend for me. I, I, I, I'm going to give it a solid recommended an eight. I really enjoyed the retro handling the cigar. I, I enjoyed the, I thought it was a two act play where the, the, you know, the, the first part of the cigar had so much, it had this creaminess.
It had, um, the, the, these honey notes, which I thought had a lot of merit. Um, and it, and, and there was a, there was a sweetness to it, but not too sweet. Um, and, uh, it was [01:30:00] medium, but full bodied. Um, it's a cigar that I would buy absolutely for sure. Um, and that I could slot in, um, maybe not after a huge, not after like a huge meal, but certainly slot in within a rotation during the day.
Um, or as a first cigar of the night, or maybe as a last kind of cigar of the night. of the, of the night after, uh, you know, having a, having many, um, I really, really enjoyed it. I really liked the cigar. So it's a, it's a very solid eight for me,
**Senator:** Senator. So I'm in lockstep with Poobah. I'm at an eight. I think the construction, I'll just start there.
What was really good. I had no issues really throughout the combustion was good. I think there's complexity in the flavor profile, particularly in the first half of the cigar. I do agree with Rooster that the final third, um, is where I kind of went from considering a nine down to an eight. I kind of lost that complexity of flavor and it just [01:31:00] became very earthy and that was really all I got there.
But I think overall, it's a great cigar. I will say we're going to have to do the Robusto Largo. I'm frustrated about that.
**Bam Bam:** It's a bigger ring gauge though. So we'll see,
**Senator:** we'll see about, Oh no, we're definitely doing it because now the tuxedo Timmy has validated my frustration with Gizmo's ring gauge choices.
Did
**Gizmo:** you say that's a 52? Um, no can do 52. No can
**Senator:** do absolutely doing it. What are
**Gizmo:** we talking about? I'm just kidding.
**Senator:** And the sad thing, like for, for the Robusto Largo, that there's no doubt The lowest score in this room will be a
**Bam Bam:** nine. Yeah, a nine. I agree. And I,
**Senator:** when I hand that score, I thought Rooster would love that.
And so I'm just bummed that this is the size we chose. Yeah. I, I really think the Boosto Largo will blow everybody away. Um, nonetheless, in this particular vitola, I would still give it an eight. I would still recommend it. I think that plenty of people would enjoy it. I just think probably the best expression of this cigar is in the ribo.
**Gizmo:** So for me, it's also an eight. I was definitely in the first two thirds at a nine.
**Bam Bam:** [01:32:00] I
**Gizmo:** was really loving it. The last third is we're talking about, it fell off quite a bit. The last inch and a half was really, really weak for me. I mentioned that earlier, which is unfortunate because it, my expectation was that it was going to either sustain or improve from where it was in the first two thirds, and it just didn't do that.
So it is what it is. Um, I'm very comfortable at an eight. I think it's a, a recommend for sure. But uh, I'm interested, you know, very interested to try the Robusta because you've talked so highly about it. So we'll have to do that on a future episode. But it's an eight for me. Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** Uh, it's an eight for me as well.
Um, I do think that it's a very easy smoke, great smoke, smoke output. You know, it's, um, when you're smoking the cigar, it's, uh, It's really enjoyable. Like, I think, like most people said, it's about, you know, the first two thirds is great. I did get a lot of the salty flavors, which I think I agree with Rooster on that.
When I was, um, it's really interesting that I think, uh, [01:33:00] Poobah bought about the barnyard. I was getting a little bit of that, but I think it was also when I, uh, Smelt the cigar right before, before we started smoking. The aroma and the wrapper had a little bit of the barnyard, uh, kind of, uh, aroma to it. And, uh, uh, overall a very enjoyable experience.
But I think I was seeking probably a little bit more of, uh, the sweetness of cocoa, the coffee, contouring that. I was expecting that as well. I think, I think I'd heard there was a San Andres, but I guess it was a filler. Um, it's an eight for me. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Alright, Bam
**Bam Bam:** Bam. Yeah, I think overall it's a good cigar, but I was expecting my experience that I had with the Robusto in this cigar tonight.
I didn't really get it. I think like we said, the first two thirds were fantastic. A little bit of cherry or raspberry in that first third, that initial light. And it was really enjoyable until the final, the final third. And I mentioned earlier, the minerality got really, really strong toward the end. So I'm [01:34:00] at a solid eight.
Now look, an eight is a strong recommend. It's still a very good cigar, but when we do that Robusto, That would, that's a completely different experience.
**Senator:** We're going to, we're going to teach Gizmo a lesson.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Yeah. I might have to be absent then. We've got to work on that, man. I'm at an eight tonight.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, that puts the former lizard rating on the Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust, Sobremesa and Cervantes Fino.
At a 7. 8. I think that's a little light. A bit. I think it's fair. Especially given the experience in the last third. I think it's a fair score.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, and I think we need to redeem ourselves with that Robusto. I agree. We have to do that. We'll put that on the calendar. Correct.
**Gizmo:** Alright, boys. Let's compare this to the other two cigars we've done from DeBarton Tobacco Trust.
We did the Muestra de Saca, the Bewitched. On episode 110, scored an 8. 7. And the Sin Compromiso Seleccion No. 4 on episode 128, that was our PCA episode with our interview with Steve Saka, that scored a 9. 4. That was [01:35:00] an excellent cigar. And that was a great, great cigar. Delicious
**Bam Bam:** cigar.
**Gizmo:** Now, let me ask you guys a question now that we've rated this.
How do you compare the Sobremesa in Robusta that we're talking about doing on a future episode with the Sin Compromiso number four that we did, uh, both with Steve at PCA Weed and Rate and here under the microscope, you know, in our normal setting, giving it a 9. 4.
**Bam Bam:** It's a different experience. That Sin Compromiso for me was very berry forward.
It was very fruit, not dried fruit, but very fruity. But it had a lot of coffee. It was very earthy. I love the clarification. Yeah. I have to now clarify everything I say when I get to that fruit. But that Cincompromiso was really incredible. It
**Rooster:** was wet
**Bam Bam:** and
**Rooster:** fruity.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, it was, it was, it was delicious.
**Senator:** I'll just say for me, the, the Sober Mason Robusto Largo was the best Dunbarton cigar I've had, period.
Yeah, agreed. Is that good? Yeah. Wow. Is that good? And that's taking nothing away from the Cincompromiso. That's an excellent cigar. [01:36:00] But when I had this for the first time in Robusto Largo, that solidified me a fan of Everything that Dunn Barton is doing. That's why then after that, I had bought the Sobremesa Brulee because I had confidence that even for a mild smoke that that would probably be satisfying and it was.
So, um, it's a crime gizmo you've committed tonight that we did not choose the 52
**Bam Bam:** gauge selection. But again, that, that's sin compromiso. That's a different cigar. Then this particular line, even in the robust, though, it's a completely different experience.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, a great night tonight. Again, on the Jefferson's ocean aged at sea, Kentucky straight bourbon.
We had a 9. 2 and on the Dunbarton tobacco and trust Sobremesa and Sir Bonta's Fino, we had a 7. 8. So that's that boys. We want to thank the listeners of course, for writing in, sending us voice memos, even though they were a little critical of me, you know, I appreciate the difficult atonement hour, especially because [01:37:00] was it
**Bam Bam:** really a difficult atonement?
**Gizmo:** I struggled through it.
**Bam Bam:** I don't think he did. Oh no, not at all.
**Gizmo:** So I encourage everyone again to check out my conversation with Rob Isle on the FOH member deep dive. Of course, support fabric of five. Uh, who support our podcast. We really appreciate it. And, uh, we'll see everybody next week.
**Poobah:** Keep smoking.
**Gizmo:** Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod. com. That's lounge lizards, P O D dot com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking.
Email us hello at lounge lizards, pod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.