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Wendy Frase 0:00
Welcome to wake up call for the soul with Bill and Wendy, thank you for joining us today for our episode six, as we talk about and discuss and ask who is source. But before we begin with that, Bill has some cleanup from our prior episode. And in the last episode, we were talking about practice. So Bill, what would you like to say about that again?
Bill Frase 0:30
Well, it's good to be here with you, Wendy, for cleanup from our prior episode. I wanted to just mention a few things that might be helpful to listeners at this stage in the conversation. So if you're interested in hearing verbalized expressions that reflect I'll call it my practice. Check out prayers for a new world podcast. That's a new podcast that I've published. There's an introductory episode where Wendy and I have a conversation about what this new podcast is about, and then everything that follows are prayers, and most of them are by me, but now I'm getting some of my friends involved to share their recorded prayers too, so I'm excited about that. All right. The second thing is, is that if you listened to that episode on practice and you're thinking, I need help still that I just wanted to mention this plant, this seed, that sometimes the first thing that makes sense to do is to ask source. So maybe this episode will be helpful. Ask source for help. If you don't know how to express these things within yourself, then ask source for help. Or if you're someone who connects with other, we could call them spirits, beings, energies, entities, they would be happy to help you, too. And if you want human help, maybe the best thing to do would be to go check out my website, wakeupcallforthesoul.com and actually there's a sign up form there for the soul fire, circle of light, that I do every week on Wednesdays. But if you wanted to connect with me directly, you can connect with me over email by putting in bill@wakeupcallforthesoul.com that's my email associated with that website. And you can get a hold of me directly if you're looking for help or guidance or support in your own or questions, or Yeah, questions related to your practice and things. So just wanted to let you know that that was available as well, that yes, there is human help here, along with all the awesome invisible or mostly, for most people, invisible help that's available. And the third thing I just wanted to clean up here was, in the last episode, we talked about these things, the practice. We talked about practice in a way that might have made it sound like it was some kind of linear process or progression, and it just felt it well, it may not be helpful, but it's true for me that I don't, I don't follow a process. I just do it. It's a flow of desire. So my practice is all that stuff we talked about at once and again that may be overwhelming. Maybe that'll get me more people sending emails like what I can't? wait? you can. I just wanted to express, to let you know that I'm not following a linear process when I engage in my practice, it's just what I do.
Wendy Frase 3:29
Okay, wonderful Bill, that sounds good, and that kind of leads into our conversation today, because we're talking about source, holy one, creator, this divine entity being. So Bill, it might be helpful to talk about what source is not
Bill Frase 3:48
Well, as I'm thinking about this conversation, I think the first thing that I'll say before I even talk about that is that we humans were never intended to be alienated from source in the beginning, but our species has chosen kind of the tough road of saying thanks, but really no thanks, source and so that has brought us to this situation where on this planet, we can even have this conversation, because it was never intended to be this way. But again, source being source honors free will, choice and so I just kind of want to put that out there that we're going to talk about source as something separate, but as is a theme throughout this entire podcast, source is not separate from us. We are choosing to prioritize our perceptions of Separation from Source, which is very different from actually being separated from source. So we're going to talk about source and use language that suggests somehow sources separate from us. This is not actually or literally true. So I just kind of want to put that as a maybe a frame around this whole conversation, as we are going to talk in ways that people are going to be like. Sounds like they think source is separate. No, that's how we're playing the game right now.
Wendy Frase 5:05
Yeah, I know that the most important thing, and what I have learned over the years, is to not put God in a box. So source in a box, because we have these preconceived ideas, even if I say we're going to talk about what sources is and is not. We're still sort of, as you said, putting that frame around and so that is helpful to understand, because we don't want to put source in a box. We don't want to put a frame around it. We don't want to define this is what it is. This is what it isn't.
Bill Frase 5:39
Yeah, but the history of humanity has been putting source in a box.
Wendy Frase 5:43
That's what religion is, yeah, and we've been told to believe this way, or even the creeds and the doctrines and the things we repeat, and the prayers and everything has been pointed in a direction of what is and what is not.
Bill Frase 6:04
Right, ao maybe that's the first thing, that source is not, source is not human. People have ideas that source is like a human being, that maybe, and there are scriptures that say that human beings are made in the image of source, and I'm not going to disagree with that, but most of the people, most of the time, when I hear them speaking or expressing about source from, I'll call it a more mindful or intellectual perspective, what I see Are people imposing their ideas of limitation based on their experience as human beings, upon source, then saying, well, because I'm this way, that makes source this way. So we as humans, oftentimes we reverse it. We have it wrong. Instead of saying, oh, in what ways am I like source, we say, oh, source must be like me, and that is, it is somewhat the case, but it is not even close to what most people consider to be the case.
Wendy Frase 7:07
For example, people and humanity and human beings. We get angry, we get vindictive. We want to punish people.
Bill Frase 7:16
Judge,
Wendy Frase 7:19
Judge, criticize,
Bill Frase 7:23
become jealous. I've heard the all of these words applied to God, source, ground of being. And for me, I, in my communions with source over the past quarter century plus, I have never experienced source to be any of those things, not one.
Wendy Frase 7:43
And we also had an episode on sacrifice, and source does not expect sacrifices, or in the traditional sense, when we're murdering someone, because that's what the whole episode was about.
Bill Frase 8:00
Yeah, I mean, people think that source wants or demands things from us that we have to pay a cost, and that has not been my experience at all. My experience of source has been the complete opposite of that, that source simply desires to give me everything that I deeply desire, and that source desires to give me, and I haven't had source come to me yet saying, you know, I expect you To make good on this thing I gave you. So I guess another difference maybe, is that, because human beings exist in this world of sacrifice, of cost and loss and price, we think that source operates that same way. And my perceptions of source up to this point is that source operates in what I would call a gift economy, a gift economy where source is constantly gifting. And the real problem with our world is that human beings continually refuse the gift. They return the package to sender. They don't accept what is sitting on their doorstep, saying, Hey, I'm here. Let me in. We're like, No, you go back to the warehouse.
Wendy Frase 9:24
I feel very blessed, though, because even as a child, I didn't see And back then, I called Source, God. That was the language that I used growing up at the church. But I didn't see God as angry, vindictive, mean, I only saw loving relationships, so I am very blessed to have grown up that way and to see that picture of source that way.
Bill Frase 9:56
And have you experienced anything that has led. You to believe that that that idea, image or concept of God that you received in your childhood is somehow wrong or flawed.
Wendy Frase 10:07
No Never, and I always saw source as all around me as well, not some distant, far away place that is only there when we call upon or need
Bill Frase 10:23
Source is always available to us, always at the ready to respond directly and also through the workings of all of the laws of the cosmos as well. So these ideas, I'll see these things on Reddit where people say, Earth is a prison planet. Earth is an experiment. Earth is a school. I am like. I think Earth is our home? I'm really confused by these things, because I don't see this distant, experimental deity looking down upon us and kind of tisk, tisk tisking and shaking his, her, their finger or shaking their head saying, "Ah, what am I going to do with these people?" I feel very confident that source knows exactly how to handle us and is handling us in the way that is best for us given source's great knowledge and understanding of who we are. So, yeah, these ideas of the distance of the the the and a lot of people, I think they have this idea about source too, that source maybe was more involved in human history, in the past, and is just totally backed off. It's this kind of deist idea that the clockwork universe of Sir Isaac Newton, that, Oh, the deity has set up all the laws, and now everything just plays out. And I see this all the time, even in people that I will call people who consider themselves people of faith, I don't really see them seeing the divine working through human history now, whereas I see it everywhere, I see it all the time. And it's amazing to me how people, the stories that they tell themselves, are stories about people and matter, and where perceptions of spirit being involved in any of these things are non existent. And so I guess maybe that's another thing, right? Source, for me, is very involved. Source is involved in everything, whether we're able to perceive it or not. This is a very, we could say, hands on, God,
Wendy Frase 12:42
yay. Well, that that's good news.
Bill Frase 12:43
Oh, but some people don't like that. They they want, they don't want someone meddling in their lives.
Wendy Frase 12:48
And there's free will choice, though, I feel that we as humans have been granted this gift and this curse of free will choice. I also wanted to talk a little bit about forgiveness, because that came up in just your talking there, because this idea that we have to ask forgiveness and to go to source, because source will grant us forgiveness of all our sins. And that I am challenged by that, but I have always enjoyed things that you have said about this idea, because you have said and maybe this isn't the way to say it. I don't believe in forgiveness, because now we know about belief, but you don't feel you don't know this term of forgiveness is pretty interesting.
Bill Frase 13:44
Yeah, we can talk about that here. I had an experience years ago. I was doing laundry or something, or putting things away, I don't know, and I, I was, wasn't having a conversation with God. I just I said, God, thank you so much for forgiving me. And in my head came a voice. I don't know whose voice it was, but they said ,"I didn't forgive you." And that gave me pause, thinking, really and whoever told me this must have known me pretty well, knowing that I'm big on definitions. So I went to my Merriam Webster dictionary, and I looked up the word forgiveness, and I looked at every definition of that word in that dictionary, and I thought, well, this is very interesting, because every one of those definitions was about human beings and about how human beings we have a tendency to, we've talked about this in a prior episode, turn our love off to say, "I'm only going to love you if you do what I want. I'm only going to love you if you stop doing this." Off and on faucet of love, conditional love goes and when I read those definitions, I realized, oh, wow, God, at that time for me, the language I was using, words aren't important. God was saying, I never stopped loving you. I never turn I never turned it off, you know, meaning source never turned off the flow. And, you know, and I was so grateful, because it's like, oh, so I would say that I have had an experience of divine forgiveness from source, meaning that I experience healing, I experience greater wholeness, because source has gifted me with this unconditional love. I have accepted and received it, and it has given me what, what I or others might call forgiveness, but it's not like human forgiveness, because again, I was the one shutting off the flow of God's love. I was the one saying to source, no thank you. Return to Sender, either because I didn't feel worthy. I didn't feel good enough, because whatever excuses or defense systems I had with these things and so yeah, that's why I say I, I don't believe in this. Whatever forgiveness God gives us is not like human forgiveness. And I think a lot of people think that God, divinity's, forgiveness is like human forgiveness. And I know from personal experience that it is not that, that we're the ones who control the valve, the valve for source is always open, wide open all the love you want. It's there. It's like the ocean and but we have to want to take it in.
Wendy Frase 16:52
Yeah. And I always like that story because it opens my eyes, and hopefully opens my heart to this more expansive, wider version of source, and my understanding, because, wow, that's much more bigger and powerful love and forgiveness is A made up human concept,
Bill Frase 17:21
because we created the these illusions of separation, shut off the flow of love. If we hadn't done it in the first place, we wouldn't even have a word for forgiveness. The word wouldn't exist if we hadn't created the initial separation with source from the beginning. Yeah. So something that we believe is absolutely rock solid, real, as we've talked about in prior episodes, is a human concept that there is no actual reality to except as human beings have invented it and perpetuate it through their language and their thinking about it, and that's why I don't believe in forgiveness.
Wendy Frase 17:59
Well, this whole part is kind of going to our next area, because it makes me think, well, then why Connect? Because we have this separation. So why Connect? How does connection or disconnection to source really change our lives?
Bill Frase 18:20
I just look at the human experience on this planet, and I see disconnection from source, running around all over the place, and I don't want more of that for myself or anyone else, hence this invitation to connect, reconnect, commune with source, because I don't have another answer to all of the problems that we experience personally, individually and collectively, what we might call social problems.
Wendy Frase 18:53
Well, that's that's the best answer for why do we want to connect and repair, restore this connection with source, because we are separated, and I almost feel like we can connect, even with your practice. And then we disconnect because we do something, we pivot in another direction. We get distracted by all the craziness and things going around. So you even spoke last time about you. You do your best to constantly be in connection, even while driving I mentioned so it's like a constant connecting, reconnecting, plugging in is a good metaphor.
Bill Frase 19:40
We're here for this existence to experience the awesomeness, the joy, the freedom of this communion with the one from whom we come.
Wendy Frase 19:53
Do you think we can experience love without connection to Source?
Bill Frase 19:58
It's an interesting question,.
Wendy Frase 20:00
I know, because I think that that is for me, when I am plugged into source, more I do feel and sense and experience more love, and I just don't know how I do it without source.
Bill Frase 20:22
Yeah, I think it goes back to the initial frame for this conversation that we as human beings have the free will choice to attempt to separate ourselves from source, but there is no absolute separation. We cannot achieve this on our own. If, if our connection with source is to be severed, it's coming from sources. And I see no evidence that that's coming anytime soon for anyone. But if it does, it has to come from source, saying you're cut off. Until that point, human beings have the capability of really pushing separation to the limit, and that's what I would call the various shades of hell, that as we push this desire, this very superficial desire that we have as human beings, to separate ourselves from source as much as we can, Then we are blocking that flow of love and potential unity in our experience with source more and more and more until a point where it's probably darn near impossible to see.
Bill Frase 21:31
This idea of natural love that we talked about in a prior episode, that substance, The what I consider to be the essence of our beings as naturally created beings, comes from source as well, that all that exists somehow that I don't understand comes or flows from Who source is as a creator and not as a passive I created this stuff once, and I'm done, but as someone as, yeah, I'll just say, I'll say someone, although it seems kind of small,
Wendy Frase 22:05
seems kind of putting in the box
Bill Frase 22:08
Yeah, as a, let's say, as a beingness, who is very intimately involved in the details of what is happening throughout the cosmos, and who cares very deeply about promoting peace, harmony, unity throughout all of creation, the earth included. So I guess the short answer is no, not really.
Wendy Frase 22:34
I don't, as you said, I don't see any other way to improve move forward and not just improve myself, but the world, because, as we said before, we're all connected unless I go to source and do my best to stay in connection with source, And that's probably where your practice leads that we talked about last week.
Bill Frase 23:05
Yeah, my practice is intended to help me increase, gradually over time, my communion, my union with source, so that not only I as unique being, am, changed, healed, developed, but I also have this deep desire to allow myself to be used as a channel, as an instrument. Source love is constantly around us, like you said, Wendy, early on, when I was younger, I just felt like God was all around me. Well, what is around you is that the source's essence of unconditional divine love surrounds all of us all the time. We're swimming in a sea of it constantly. But most of us, most of the time, are refusing to drink the water. We're not letting it in, because source honors our free will choice. Source says, "This is for you. You can have it whenever you want, but I will not force it on you," because source recognizes the importance of a gift being accepted by the recipient. This source essence is all around us and but because of the conditions on the planet, because of the persistent choices of billions and billions of people on this planet over millennia, saying "No thanks, no thanks, no thanks," we're now in the situation where we have to make an effort to allow it in, because we have our own barriers to it, our own blockages. We have our own limiting ideas about whether we deserve it or not, all these different things.
Bill Frase 24:50
But I guess what prompted me to say all those things is that for each individual who becomes a clearer, purer expression of this unconditional love in this world, each of those people are an invitation for others to say, "Huh, maybe I want what they have too." And so the way that this is supposed to work is through a positive contagion, unlike the mimetic desire contagion of Rene Gerard, where, you know, we end up murdering people. This one is supposed to lead to everybody, loving everybody and loving everything. By witnessing one person and saying, "Okay, what do you have? How do you have that? I want that too. How do I get that?" And then that person going about it their way, to get it so that other people come to them, and you see the geometric progression that way. And so that's how it's supposed to be happening now, is that people are being invited to be these examples, these channels of unconditional love in the world, so that other people can express their desire. Well, first of all, I guess, to see that that person is somehow they seem different. Maybe they're happier, maybe they're more generous, maybe they're kinder or more patient, whatever the things the qualities come through that unique individual others can witness that and make a choice, a decision, if they perceive them to say, "hmm, maybe what that person has is something I want too," and so that, to me, is that's the whole game I feel like we're in when it comes to this. Because until there are enough people on this planet demonstrating this power through their being, most people are not even going to believe that it exists.
Wendy Frase 26:36
And that's the good end of mimetic desire that you talk about a lot.
Bill Frase 26:42
Well, it's I'm going to get a little technical here, because the thing that people are responding to, they may think it's their minds, and their minds might be but we are all communicating at the soul level constantly, and most people are not aware of these communications. When someone is clearer at that soul level, and emanating this unconditional light and love, other people's souls pick up on it again, whether they're consciously aware of it or not. So what I see it as is actually these expressions of more awakened souls are inviting other people's souls to come play. So instead of it being this more intellectual mimetic desire, like I see and then I want, actually, what I see is a deeper invitation not to say that mimetic desire can't or won't play a part. I mean, it's a part of the whole human condition. So that's it's just a fact right now, there will come a time when it won't be a thing. But I just want to emphasize that people can pick up things on multiple levels of their being without being consciously aware that they are picking up from these multiple levels of energy, frequency, reality.
Wendy Frase 27:51
Well, thank you, Bill, this has been a great conversation. Source is so much bigger, wider, deeper than even I can imagine, and I know that I don't have to have all the answers. That's the beauty of this. I can, I can connect with source where I feel that I can. I know that I can in my soul without having to understand everything.
Bill Frase 28:20
Agreed. Yeah. And one of the thoughts that occurs to me, one of the things I was hoping to express in this episode, as I think about it, is I would really like to remind people, or maybe this is the first time they've heard it, that divinity is free. And by divinity is free, what I mean is that divinity does not conform to any human ideas about anything that we have constructed this neat little pseudo reality as human beings, thinking that we Are rulers of the world, and what I know from my own experiences of source is that source has no interest in playing our games. Source does not play by our rules. Source created at all all of the original stuff. I'm not talking about the stuff people invented and made up out of their heads. And so, I'm excited that in the times that are coming, more and more people will come to realize that source, divinity, the ground of being, is indeed absolutely free and is not constrained by anything that any human being tries to do, to put source in a box, to control source, to control the narrative. It doesn't work that way, and so I'm excited to see those displays of power, the breaking in of divine reality into the human pseudo-reality. I just feel like expressing that because I think that a lot of people think that source plays by people's roles. And again, the one role that source doesn't mess with, but again, this is sources rule. Source doesn't mess with human free will, but that leaves a lot of room for freedom and power to exercise itself around the margins of every single human being's free will choice, and so that may excite some people and terrify others, and I'm okay with that. This is called wake up call for the soul.
Wendy Frase 30:45
And what excites me is that I am not alone. Source goes with me always, and is with me and in me, hopefully, always, today, tomorrow, through all eternity.
Bill Frase 31:00
Yeah, Source is here. Source wants to help. Source is constantly wanting to help, but we tie sources hands most of the time by saying "no, thank you, Return to sender." So, if we want help, the easiest place to go to any moment of our lives is to go straight to source, and source will offer help, whether we perceive that help in the moment, given its subtlety, doesn't diminish the fact that that's that help is available. And you see stories of this all throughout human history. You can see it in the news, people crying out from their souls for something. And miracles happen, unexpected things, things that should not have worked, rescues that seemed impossible, strange coincidences of timing, synchronicities. There are people in this world that think that these things are random, and when I see them, I see the working of laws. I see the working of human desire and source saying, "I'm here for you, Kiddo."
Wendy Frase 32:06
and I can't change the world, but I can change myself and plug into that connection with source. Awesome.
Bill Frase 32:14
Invite other people to play in our sandbox, and it's an ever expanding sandbox. It's not even a box, right? No boxes here. The ocean, yeah, it's like the beach, a beach with no borders,
Wendy Frase 32:28
beach with no borders. Sounds good. Well, it's been great talking to you today, Bill.
Bill Frase 32:32
Yeah, I've enjoyed our conversation. Wendy, always awesome.
Wendy Frase 32:37
Until next time.
Bill Frase 32:38
Until next time.
Bill Frase 32:40
Thank you so much for listening to wake up call for the soul with Bill and Wendy, we hope you'll join us next time.