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A podcast the explores lived experiences of various aspects of the LGBT+ culture.
Welcome to Spill the Tea, the podcast where we speak with guests about aspects of LGBTQ plus culture and provoke our thinking about the degrees of equity, equality of opportunity and the oppression experienced by this community. I'm your new host, Joe Blomfield from the University of Greenwich, and I'm your stereotypical gay gen Z that spends far too much time on Twitter and I'm obsessed with the noughties pop sensation, The Sugar Ladies.
Our guest for today's podcast is Dan Harry. Dan grew up in North Lanarkshire in Scotland, has a degree in journalism from Glasgow Caledonian University, and began his career working in PR. However, Dan is also known for being one of 16 people to be featured in the UK's first queer dating show, BBC's I Kissed a Boy, which was released earlier this year.
Since the show, Dan has used his platform to campaign for LGBTQ plus rights. And has partnered with some fantastic charities, such as Stonewall, Terrence Higgins Trust, and the Transgender Clinic. As well as sharing some personal stories about his own experiences and journey of navigating life as a queer person.
So, welcome to the podcast, Dan. Just to check, is there anything you want to add to introduce yourself to Spill the Tea? Hey Joe. Do you know, I don't think I've got anything to add. I think you kind of, I think you nailed it. Excellent. Good to know. Good to know. Um, although I do want to say, I love that you're a Sugar Babes fan.
Absolutely. They're my, they're my, like, I'm obsessed with them. I think I've seen them three times in the past like year and a half and it's still mad. I feel like they're having like a real resurgence right now and I'm just, yeah, I'm really living for it. I feel like it's now the blueprint for a comeback.
Like, they've come back with such a vengeance. Yeah. And I am slightly obsessed. So let's kick off, uh, and I guess let's jump into talking about I Kissed a Boy, obviously, uh, which aired earlier this year on BBC Three, and I guess just what was that experience like? I guess? Is the sort of... Yeah. Do you know what?
Like, the experience itself was, well, it became something really incredible and something I'm so proud to be a part of. I remember when I first, like, I was the first approach to take part in the show. I already had like a really well established career in PR, kind of, I was very much happy in my life, I wasn't like seeking anything, I wasn't seeking going on TV or anything like that, I hadn't done any other TV before, and they had to kind of like really sell it to me because I was so, I was like, what is this, like it's a brand new thing, like, you know, I was just quite cynical about it, but being a part of it and then seeing it come to life, I felt really, sort of, Privileged to be a part of it because it is such a iconic thing for our community and the things that people have said to me ever since I took part in it, are just amazing.
People are so sweet and so, yeah, it's just made such an impact. Um, but for me during that time, I mean, I was just. I was just trying to, I think I'm quite, I'm someone who's quite protective over how I come across and things I say and the way people perceive me, I guess just coming from PR. So I guess the whole time I was in there, I wasn't necessarily like relaxing and just like going with the flow.
I was kind of always thinking, Oh God, like did I do the right thing, did I not? I was always kind of second guessing myself. So I think at the time I wasn't necessarily enjoying every minute of it, but I look back on it now really fondly. Of like, of, of what I did, what I, what, like, what I was a part of, and, yeah.
And how long were you actually filming for? Because obviously we only saw eight hours. Yeah, oh my god, I know. You saw basically nothing, which is like, so wild to think. We were filming for about three weeks around that. But before we started filming I was in isolation for ten, eleven days. Locked in a hotel room for 11 days.
Yikes. And that was... So, I remember actually I was like calling all my friends and I was like, I feel like I'm going to forget how to like be a human being by the time I actually go in there. Like what do I say? Like how do I even, how do I flirt? You know? Actually, just the panic before going in. Yeah, which is I think why I went in there guns blazing and then like had like a real like impact when I first walked in because I was so ready to actually be around other people because it had been so long.
Yeah. I've not been around people. I was going to say, it's what everyone says when they filmed. Season 3 of Drag Race. It's just you walk in, you're like, there are other people? Literally, yeah. Let's do this. Totally. Um, and obviously you just said you were approached to be on this season. What was that like?
How did they approach you before? Like, what was that process of getting cast before you even stepped foot into the world? Yeah, well, so basically how it works is they just DM, like, you get, there's various cast and producers out there and they are just trawling through Instagram looking at anyone who might fit the criteria of what they're looking for.
So I got approached by someone called Sam, Sam King, who I absolutely love so much. He's amazing. Um, and he just DM'd me and he was like, look, what do you think about this? I said, I'm not interested. He said, I think you just need to hear me out on it. So we had a few phone calls about it. We had a zoom call and he was very much like, look, you, this is like something that.
He was like, I hear you, I know, I understand who you are and what you're worried about. I promise you, you don't want to be worried about this thing. Maybe if it was something else, yes, I would probably start to direct you away, but for this project, it was like, this is like your kind of thing. So basically we did various Zoom calls, whatever, the way it works, they do all that with the casting.
Then it gets sent to like the exec team. They start to kind of filter through. And then you just go through each stage. So like, then the next stage was like a psych test. So you go and meet a psych, like a psychotherapist, and then they ask you like a million questions about how you were brought up, like, what was your mum and dad like, what's your relationship like with your family, what, what traumatic moments have you been through in your life, like all that kind of stuff.
And you have to like, really like go back into your life and think about all these things and you're having that meeting for a long time. Then you, I mean you have to do loads of STD tests as well, lots of medical sexual health tests. Um, and yeah, just loads of different means until eventually, I think maybe like two weeks before I was set to fly out.
They told me, like, you're coming, like, you're on, you're, you're being casted. So at that point I was like, oh god, I need to like, find all these outfits. That was like, that was, that was my main stress, to be honest, I wasn't like, how am I going to do this on TV? I was thinking, what am I going to wear? Yeah, no, absolutely.
That would be a panic, to be honest. So you found out two weeks before you flew out. Mm hmm. Which, and everyone else knew for months prior, like, they had been going through the process for months. This all happened for me, literally, from start to finish. From hearing about the show to going on the show, a month.
Wow. Yeah. That is an absolute whirlwind. It is crazy. And the only reason I actually could do it is because I was just, by coincidence, leaving my previous job at the time in PR. So I just, by sheer coincidence, had a month free in my schedule, which was the reason why I was like, this is too, like, this is lined up too well, like, I think it means that I'm meant to do it.
And did you sort of have to, like, After casting or after you got back from filming, did you have to keep it quiet? Like, I mean, yeah, I was a bit too. I feel like I did talk to a lot of people about it, to be fair, but, well, I say that I shared it with my friends and. Obviously, right off the bat of coming off the show, I was in a relationship, well, wasn't in a relationship, but I was with someone, so there was a lot, there was people that I wanted to meet Ollie, you know, so, um, there was definitely people who I did share it with, but overall, like, it's supposed to be a big secret, so, like, the boys, we couldn't really, like, hang out together, or post about being together, or, yeah, it was all kind of on the DL for a long time, actually, because we filmed it in September of last year.
And then it came out, came out in, um, May. So, like, eight months or something like that. Yeah, that's long. Yeah. So then, obviously, then when you are in the Masseria, the gag I think everyone was obsessed with is Danny Nogue. What was she like? You know, Danny is so typical to just say, like, oh, like, she was fab, she was this, she was that, she was an icon.
She was that, for sure. I feel like I really got much more of a sort of personal energy from her. Like, she really deeply cared. She knew everything that was happening in the Maceria She had her own live feed of what was going on, like, in the house. So she knew. She was really invested, her whole team were invested, her makeup artists.
Her hairstylist, her stylist, her manager, they were all very much like, they would come to set every day and be so excited to find out what had happened that, like, the night before or, or whatever. And I remember actually, I was pulled out of the Maceria one day to have like a one on one date with Danny.
Love. Which was cut from the final edit, um, but we basically had that really nice moment where we spoke about, um, Her being a gay icon, how she became a gay icon, she talked a lot about how when she performed in heaven like decades ago, she was like slated in the press because people were assuming that that was like her coming out as gay or whatever it might be and it was at a time where no artist was doing that.
So she really put her kind of like head on the chopping block there. But she did it because she just wanted to be there for her community so we spoke about that and I really appreciated that from her and um, yeah she's been like a real ally for her community for a long time and you could really feel that in her, like the way she approached the show.
She was even like on the final day of the commitment ceremony, um, when she was like in white and it was like the whole wedding day thing, cringe. She was like crying that morning because she was so emotional because she was so eager. To get it right, she was really worried she was gonna like, screw it up.
Cause she had like, the boys there, who obviously had these relationships. The families, like, she was really emotional about making it all, making it all happen. And the way it was supposed to. I think as a viewer as well, like, you could tell that. Like, I remember watching it being like, she is having the best time.
Like. Yeah. Yeah, all, I mean, of course, cause she was like, we were all like, first of all, we were all like, like. Totally cheerleading her the whole time. Anytime we saw her we'd be like, Oh my god Dan, you look amazing, you look so good. She did look phenomenal. Yeah, she looked unreal. Every single... She looks even better in person, honestly she does.
She looks unreal. But we would always hype her up. Yeah, she was fab. Incredible. And, I guess, this is following the last few years. Queer representation on TV is really sort of... I would say, sort of, particularly in British TV. So we've obviously got Drag Race UK, Heartstopper, there's a lot of just queer people in reality TV, so there's sort of Hallie, Mattie, Jordan, Henry, Jenkin, I think is everyone currently in Big Brother?
It's all of them. Uh, or, there's Ella and Married Sight, there's sort of queer people behind really massive TV shows like Doctor Who at the moment, and then obviously there is the future season of I Kissed a Girl as well. So, why do you think sort of queer representation is so important in TV and I guess film and throughout media?
I think that kind of queer representation is so, so important now more than ever because we're seeing like our representation really being targeted in other areas of the media. So with our political leaders right now and the headlines. and other kind of, like, less accepting parts of, of the media, like, we're not seeing those faces and voices being heard and stories being told, or if we are they're being told in the completely opposite way of how we would like.
So it's really important that we have those voices there to actually speak for us, our community, because people are trying to speak for us. And that can't happen because they are not getting it right, you know? Yeah, absolutely. So, like, all those people you mentioned, Ella, Halle, those, those kind of, like, voices in mainstream media, like, I'm just so grateful that they are there because they are such positive representation for the community.
Absolutely. And I am a big, big brother fan. So, Halle sort of coming out on that second episode was so impactful. And I think particularly the way trans people are talked about at the moment. A trans person being viewed by millions of people and just in a really human way, I think was so important. And just, the way the entire house reacted was really nice to see as well.
Yeah, I completely agree. I remember one conversation that happened after Halle left, and it was between Jenkin and Chanel I think, where they said like, they were basically denying the idea that Halle might have been voted out because of her trans, trans identity. Yeah. And I was very confused by that because to me, like.
Obviously that was a, a factor, if not a major factor, in her being evicted from the house. Because there are so many bigots out there, especially on, on primetime mainstream TV, so I absolutely believe that that was a factor in Halle being evicted. Absolutely. And especially because I know that the moment that second episode came out, the amount of people on Twitter which were tweeting saying, we need to get Halle out because she's trans.
The, the idea that that couldn't have been a factor for me was. Baffling. Um, a hundred percent. But I guess just to, to round off, uh, the I kiss a boys section is obviously that has been just, just over, just under six months since the Oh my God. Season aired. Oh God. That's wild. How has life been since like, I guess it must have been.
Uh, a difference, I know I was at Hoopla this year and seeing a lot of the different people from the cast were just getting swarmed constantly, uh, people asking for pictures, people asking just to talk to them. So yeah, what has your life been like over the past six months? My life has really changed quite drastically actually.
I, I don't think I necessarily expected it to change to such a level. Mighty Hoopla last year was... The most surreal experience of my life. I remember arriving there with all of my friends and Ollie. And, I was there just thinking, I'm like, they are just, have a good time, have a dance, see the people I wanted to see.
And I quickly realised, like, that wasn't how it was going to go down. It was going to be a case of meeting people constantly, all day and night. There was not, at any given time, there was people around us wanting to chat. Which, by the way, was absolutely lovely. It was so nice, but it was just not what I expected.
And then I went back the next day and I was like, right, okay, I'm ready now to like, just like, do the whole thing and meet everyone. So that was like a real like, throwing, that was like a baptism of fire. And then since then, I, yeah, like, I guess my life has just changed because I'm now able to do things that I've always wanted to do but never had the platform to do.
So, since being on the show. I've now tried to use my platform to do lots of positive stuff for my community because I have this background in PR. I have a platform now. I want to do something good with it. So I guess I'm like proud of what I've done since the show for that reason. Yeah, amazing. And I know one of the sort of big things you've been involved with since the show.
It's sort of the, the relationship and partnership you, you have with the Terrence Higgins Trust. And for listeners who may not know, the Terrence Higgins Trust is the UK's leading HIV and sexual health charity that supports people living with HIV and help people achieve good sexual health. And, I guess my first question here is, how did you first get involved with the Terrence Higgins Trust?
Well basically, I first got involved with them because they invited all of the boys from the show to come and work with them at London Pride. So, I'd obviously been aware of Ten Second Trust for a long time, previous to that, so I was very honoured that they had asked me to do that. Um, so that was kind of how the relationship started, but ever since then I was very, just like, I felt really compelled to just continue working with them and continue supporting them in any way that I could, and that was why I started speaking out about the vaccine trial that I am taking part in, which I'd been involved in actually prior to even filming the show, that had been quite a long process.
But I had never spoken about it before and also doing other fundraising work. So for example, with Terence Higgins Trust, I took part in their big shave off event where basically I raised money by shaving off. All my hair on my chest, which seems quite random, but, apparently it works, so. If it works, it works.
So I was on stage at the Royal Vauxhall Tavern, literally, with a drag queen, like, singing a song and me just, like, getting my chest shaved, which was very bizarre. No, that is a surreal experience. And everyone cheating, and I was just, I was like, this is, is this my life right now? Um, but it was all for a really good cause, so I've basically been able to do lots of fun stuff with 10 Seconds Trust as a charity that I really, really admire.
Amazing. And one of the things you were just talking about is the vaccine trials and that's a big reason of why we sort of wanted to get you on Spill the Tea today is to talk about the sort of world first HIV vaccine trial, um, which obviously if successful could help to eradicate transmissions. So can you tell us just a bit more about the trials, what is sort of involved with it, how long it is?
Yeah. So the reason that I even got involved in the trial is basically maybe about a year ago. Or maybe even longer actually. Yeah, it'll be longer because it was before I ever went on the show. A long time ago, before I ever filmed a show, I, one of my mates had done phase one of this HIV vaccine trial. So I didn't really know anything about it and he told me.
I was like, wow, that seems really amazing. I'd love to be a part of it. So he put me in touch with the hospital and from there I started doing some tests and different sort of like criteria, like processes with them to see if I was eligible to take part. Because you need to be. A certain level of health and need to represent a certain, like basically, basically just boxes you have to tick if you are able to be one of the volunteers.
So I applied to do that maybe I think maybe four or five months later, by which point I had filmed the show. They then got back in touch and they said, okay, can you come in? And we'd like to start, like start the process. So. I went back in there, and from that point onwards I've basically been doing, kind of, around weekly, I mean it's kind of sporadic, but when it's, when it's at a point of, like a really important point of the trial, I'm doing, I'm in there maybe every couple of days, or maybe twice in one week, or whatever it might be, it kind of, it kind of varies, but It's a year long trial and over that course of a year you're given three doses of this vaccine which essentially creates a, what it is, is a genetically engineered replica of HIV which you're, um, put, taken into my body with the hope that that would prevent me from ever contracting HIV as a HIV negative person.
So it's, we're still obviously at the trial stage naturally. one of five volunteers taking part. It's been a, it's been, I think maybe 20, 25 years in the making of this specific vaccine. So it's at a really, really crucial stage at the point of human trials. So we'll know by 2025. If it is successful, fingers crossed that it is, um, but at this point right now I am kind of on a, like a hiatus from the trial because I've had the first two doses and then they wait four or five months to give you your final dose.
Right. So I get my final dose in January. And then from that point, they'll continue to do tests on me to see how my body reacts. And also, they've got loads of my blood, so they use different tests on my blood as well. Which, by the way, I absolutely hate the part of giving blood. I hate it with passion.
There's only one doctor in the hospital that I let do the blood because he just really looks after me and he knows that I'm like a diva about it, so. But the whole team there are so amazing. So knowledgeable, they know everything there is to know about HIV, about the trial. The, the reason why I actually started speaking out about it publicly was because when I went in there for one of my appointments, the show had just finished airing and immediately the, the nurses were like, Oh my god, like, can we get a selfie with you?
And I was like, I mean, sure, like, if you want. And from that point onwards it became a conversation around raising awareness for the trial. And I wanted to really shine a spotlight on the amazing work that these doctors and nurses are doing. So that was how that kind of came about and now I, I'm almost like a spokesperson for this trial, which never was, that never was what was supposed to happen.
Like I said, I went on board to do the trial before I ever filmed the show, so there was never any correlation there, but it just worked out really nicely that I'm able to bring awareness to this, you know. Absolutely, and it's definitely just incredible to hear, like, the idea that within the next two years, Because we might have that vaccine that can then Yeah, or at least have a real breakthrough, you know.
Which is major, especially for people within the LGBT community, but also those that aren't in the LGBT community. I think it's incredible. I think vaccine development for me is always just like, wow, like this is such a change that is, is possible. Um, yeah. And the other kind of amazing thing is that I found out from one of the amazing nurses there, who's called Serge, that Freddie Mercury was treated for AIDS in the same hospital where I am, like, being given this trial, where I'm taking part in the trial.
So I have such a love for Freddie Mercury, as people kind of know. So to hear that was just like, wow, this is like, kind of amazing that I'm, like, following in his footsteps in a very strange way, you know, so that was really amazing. That is amazing. And, how do you sort of feel after, so you've had two, two doses of the vaccine so far.
How have you felt after it? Have you had any side effects? Has it, have you been able to sort of feel it? Yeah. I haven't had any side effects whatsoever. Basically, after I'm, after I've been given a dose of the vaccine, so essentially I'm given a needle injection and then like a pressure injection, which is this new form of giving a vaccine, which is kind of, it's a new technology that's coming out.
I'm giving a dose in each arm, and then I need to come into the hospital the next day to do like, kind of immediate next checks, and then from that point onwards I have to do a diary of how I feel for seven days. So that's around like, is there any bruising or redness in the areas, how do I feel, do I have a fever, anything like that, which I never have, everything's been completely fine, which was what was to be expected, so yeah, that's how it's worked, but I haven't had any side effects, I've been completely fine.
Excellent. I get, like, side effects from a flu jab, so that's brilliant. I know, right? And, I guess, why did you sort of choose to take part in the trials initially? So, obviously, going back over that year, what was the thing that made you think, yeah, I really want to do this? My initial motivation to take part in the trial was very much my, like, it was fuelled by my gratitude for the previous generations who have been most impacted by HIV.
Like, I have friends who have told me stories about how they were losing friends all the time back then. They were losing loved ones, they were losing partners because they didn't know or didn't understand what was happening and there was such a stigma and there still is such a stigma. So I wanted to take part to help, first of all, break the stigma around HIV and also just to show my gratitude for the previous generations.
who were most impacted and the hope that by me taking part in this would make a small difference and future generations not being affected. That's really amazing and I think it's definitely, I think a lot of us feel like even if you can do something small like just do it because it's like you never know the impact that it could have.
Um, and I know there's one academic here at the university who is sort of, the university's I'd say expert on HIV and AIDS. that talks about how during the AIDS epidemic, particularly 80s, 90s, was that funerals were the social occasions because of how common they were, which is just harrowing to sort of hear.
And it's so far removed from how I sort of live my life as a young gay man, particularly in London, um, that it's definitely talking about HIV and AIDS and raising this awareness is definitely so important. Um, Yeah, a hundred percent. Like imagine us, like So I'm guessing you're in your 20s. Are you in your 20s?
Yeah. So we're both in our 20s. Imagine we were living through an age where we are going out every weekend to different bars and clubs as we already do, meeting our pals, but now all of a sudden the friend that we usually see there every weekend is just not there. And we're like, imagine that happening all the time.
Like to go through that, it's just so, must have just been so hard, you know, and I'm so, I'm so lucky to not have had to have lived through that, but I'm just very grateful for the people who Yeah. Absolutely. Who, who got through that and yeah, who, um, I have just a lot to thank them for now. Absolutely. And it goes back to sort of that representation in TV was It's a Sin, which came out two, three years ago.
Um, which I just remember watching being like, this is insane. I think it's probably the only word I can think of. Yeah. But like so emotional, but so touching and having that representation on TV. in such an accessible way was an incredible thing for Russell T. Davis. God bless the man. Yeah, I love Russell and also my friend Peter Hoare who was also a director on It's a Sin.
Um, he's been doing such amazing queer, like, representation out there. He, um, he also directed, you know, the episode of The Last of Us, episode three with the gay love story. He did that episode as well and he's just doing such amazing work. So yeah, I wanted to give him a shout out, he's fine. Nice, thanks. Um, and something you were talking about is obviously the stigma associated with HIV.
And I think there are often so many misconceptions about HIV, and I guess with your, you being in these trials, have you had to sort of address any sort of misconceptions about the trials or HIV in general? So many misconceptions. So many. Like, that really is... That in itself, like, people ask me like, oh, how do you feel about doing the trial?
Like, you're like, it's very, you're so brave for taking part in it. Like my response is, me taking part in the trial is not the brave part. The brave part, or the hard part, I should say, is having to challenge these misconceptions all the time. For example, even me just taking part in the trial, there's a lot of confusion over, over my status, for example, people get confused and think.
Oh well, as he tried to cure his own HIV, so therefore he's HIV positive. No, you couldn't be HIV positive and be a volunteer in this trial. That's just the fact, so. There's that, which I get all the time. There's also things like, I am like living in fear now still that I'm going to get HIV and that this is something that I am personally con Like, this is some sort of personal driven thing, which it's not either.
The reason I'm doing it is for a much wider purpose. Um, there's also just misconceptions just generally about HIV and how people with HIV live their life, which Terrence Higgins Trust has actually done a lot, even for me. I've met so many HIV positive people who are living completely normal, normal lives, doing normal things, or amazing things, and, like, HIV is just something that they live with and it's just something that they live, they're undetectable because they're on their medication and they live a normal life and that's it.
So those are things which I am trying to break the stigma on, also even me myself as like A young guy in his 20s, like, you don't necessarily hear someone like me who looks like me speaking about HIV. Yeah. But that's the whole reason why I want to do it. That being said, I don't want to take away from voices within the community who maybe have more of a space than I do.
I really recognize that. But I do want to help to break the stigma by being that HIV negative guy in their 20s. who's speaking out and trying to raise awareness and break the stigma. Absolutely, and it goes back to that, I guess, just idea of allyship in just different ways. Like, being HIV negative means we do have a platform to share things with people who might not be educated.
So, I know a conversation I've had a lot with, in this case, particularly a lot of straight people. is the idea that you can be undetectable which is untransmissible which for so many people is still such a surprise and I think by just being able to talk about these things and share that is part of the part of the battle or telling people about prep or things like that can just have such an impact.
Yeah and actually on the prep thing like I even like it even brought up conversations with my parents because Sexual health, that's something I'm very open about, but not necessarily with my parents, as you would imagine. But, with me talking so publicly about the trial, like, even my parents were like, Well, what do you mean you're on PrEP?
Like, what's that? So then it became a conversation about why I take PrEP, what is PrEP? And, um, that was like great for them, even, because it's even just like opening up their eyes of like, Oh wow, okay, this is something that, that you do and that they didn't know about, you know? Um... And also there's misconceptions about the, the trial in the sense that this Vaccination would work the same as PrEP.
It doesn't. I know there are PrEP injections out there. This is something completely different. This is something that would create immunity against HIV forever in your body. It's not like, it's not like a PrEP injection where you'd need to take it every month or every couple of months or whatever. It's funny talking about parents finding out about PrEP because I was visiting home a few, a few months ago.
Uh, and my dad came up with my bottle of PrEP and was like, J, are these yours? Like, what, what is this? And my dog had managed to just grab the bottle of it out of my bag and run straight downstairs. And in that moment I was like, this is hell. Um, but that actually, again, started a really good conversation between me and my dad about, okay, this is what it is, this is why I take it.
Um, wasn't necessarily a comfortable conversation, but again, important to have. Exactly, and that's the thing, like, they usually aren't comfortable, like, usually it is a bit like, oh god, like, we need to talk about this. But. I guess that's kind of almost why you need to do it, you know, you have to have those conversations in order to break the stigma.
Exactly. And do you have any advice for listeners, I guess, on what they could do to support either the Terence Higgins Trust or to promote awareness of sort of HIV in its, in its modern sense? I would just encourage people To do the research, I think that's the first thing I would say, like, we all have our sort of preconceived notions about HIV.
I know I did, even as a young kid, like, as a young teen, growing up, learning about gay life, I heard things about HIV and I was like, oh my god, like, am I going to die? Like, that's what I thought as a young teenager. I've realised that's not the case and I was so, so off the mark with that. But I would say do your research.
Look at Terence Higgins Trust, they have such amazing ambassadors. Absolutely. They have HIV positive pilots, boxers, soldiers, like you name it, there are all these amazing aspirational people who are living their life really proudly with HIV. I would encourage anyone who's interested to research them, learn about them, yeah, like, unearth any myths about HIV And, um, yeah, to play your part in breaking the stigma by doing that.
Amazing. I guess one of the other things you are quite vocal about is your activism as an individual, which I've, I know I follow you on Instagram, I see quite a lot of, and one of the most recent stories that you shared, quite a personal story, um, was being a victim of a hate crime. And I want to just, for listeners who might not have heard, heard your story, would you mind telling us a bit more about what happened?
Yeah, no problem. First of all, I want to just say, like, on this experience that I went through, like, I am a cisgender white man, and there are people out there who experience so much worse than me. So much worse. But, that being said, this is something that happened to me so I just want to share that story.
But I really acknowledge that there, that people out there are experiencing so much worse and naturally that was why I wanted to speak out about this in the first place. But, essentially what happened to me was, one day I had been out for dinner with friends, I was going on to, I was going home to, I was getting, catching the tube, um, at King's Cross tube station, I was walking down the escalator and I could hear sort of...
like, um, sniggering behind me. And I kind of turned my head, I had earphones in, and it was like three guys who were kind of looking at me, sort of like sizing me up a wee bit, and kind of just trying to intimidate me a little bit. So I tried to just ignore it, and just walked down the tube, walked down the escalator, and onto my platform.
At that point I realised they had followed me and they were standing right behind me on the platform. And they then started to Kind of, it tried to just intimidate me and were kind of like getting closer and closer to me. It was trying to almost nudge me as close to the platform edge as possible, um, while saying lots of horrible things.
It was a really scary and horrible moment and, um, it really felt like, due to what they were saying, that it was like a threat to like push me onto the tracks and it was just very horrible. It was, yeah, it was not a nice thing to go through, um, and I remember as the train was arrive, I then tried to run to the opposite end of the platform to try and get as far away from them as possible before I got on the train, which I did.
And then the train set off and I thought, okay, right, I'm all right. I'm like, I'm safe now. Um, but then as the train stopped at each next stop, I could hear the same guys were like running along the platform to like, try to find the carriage that I had ran to. Um, until eventually they'd got maybe, I think maybe two stops later, they arrived at my carriage and they were screaming through the window and through the doors, the most horrible homophobic slurs I've ever heard in my life.
Um, most nasty, horrible stuff. Um, and yeah, they didn't go on the carriage, but by this point they stayed in the platform. The train took off and then I was like, okay, they're gone now. But I think, like, weirdly enough, the moment that sticks out the most for me in that experience was. There were lots of other people sitting on the carriage with me, and no one even, like, acknowledged that this had happened, they were all just kinda looking at me like, what was that?
And I just remember thinking like, would no one, like, would no one just say like, are you alright? Or like, what happened? Or are you okay? Or I'm sorry that happened to you, or something like that, and I just, no one, no one did. And it just, that always sticks out to me, like, I get people just like to keep to themselves.
But, I don't know, there was just, I just would have, like, appreciated a bit of allyship in that moment. I think that was one of the things that I thought when I first heard the story, it's just, whether or not other people on the platform, and it's just something that I can't get my head around. Because it's, you see people on the tube all the time, and yeah, sure, we all like to ignore each other, but that's when it's Friday at 5pm and it's just busy and you don't want to talk or look at anyone.
But when something like this happens, I never understand. How people can just watch it and it's, especially it's such a harrowing story. Yeah. How did you feel sort of after you got home and said, what was your thought process? I remember I phoned my mum when I got off the tube and I just had to say to her like, the thing is I try not to share stuff like this with my mum because The reality of being queer, like, we experience hate crimes.
It's not the first time and it probably won't be the last. And all of my friends can relate to that. Anyone in the community will be able to relate to that. So I try not to share those experiences with my parents because I don't want them to worry. Because at the end of the day, I feel strong enough to get through it myself.
However, in that specific moment, I really just felt like I needed to talk to someone. So I told my mum and I remember my mum was just so upset. I remember thinking, oh god, I probably shouldn't have even told her because I would rather have just, like, tried to process it myself rather than now upset my mum, but I did talk to my friends about it.
I just put in the WhatsApp group chat with everyone, like, this just happened to me and everyone reached out and were so kind and just everyone gets it because we've all been through it. And that's, I guess that's my point I'm trying to make. This is not new for anyone, like any gay person will know what I'm talking about.
They've all experienced these things before. I'm not special in that, in that instance. But, um, yeah. I just basically reached out for support, which is not something I often do. Um, but yeah. But one thing I didn't do is I didn't report it. Right. And that's something that I do regret. And I would advise anyone.
And future, if you were to experience any kind of hate claims, you have to report it. I think that's definitely something, because it's almost common at this point to have slurs yelled at you across the street or stuff like that happen, that it's difficult to, I guess, quantify my opinion, like, what's, what's the turning point of when it's, it's no longer just daily business and it's something that needs to be reported.
So I definitely think, but just urging people to report it no matter what, because I think. What, the stat is that only one in ten LGBT hate crimes are reported, which is shocking in itself. And then Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, not just that, the Home Office actually released stats earlier this year which showed that hate crimes against LGBT people, against, sorry, queer, against gay people had went down, which I think any gay person would completely disagree and not make sense around that stat.
And the reason is because And not enough people are actually reporting the crimes that are happening to them. For whatever reason, whether they think it's just, it happens all the time, what am I going to do? They don't want to have to go through the trauma of it. All valid reasons, but we should start to really prioritise, like, reporting these crimes so that we actually have the most accurate picture of the problem.
I mean, because the more accurate picture we have of the problem, the less chance we have of our government being able to ignore it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, I guess, why after this happened did you choose to, to speak out about it and share, share this story? I think the reason why I wanted to speak out about it is because I wanted to empower other people to also speak out about what happened to them.
I think it's that thing of like, there's just a lot of, I, I just, I don't want things like this, what I experienced, just to go under the rug anymore. Like, I want to really put a spotlight on these things because Until we are having these things spoken about regularly, in the media, in the headlines, on social media, with friends, it will continue to get ignored and we can't allow these things to continue to be swept under the rug, particularly when we have a government who are not, don't have our best interests at heart, we kind of have to use our own voices as much as we can.
And to be honest, I was conscious about, I was actually really nervous about speaking out about this particular thing because I'm conscious that. People have been through so much worse, but I guess I just want to start the conversation with the hope that the rest of my community picks up the baton and continues it, um, and tells their own stories as well.
Absolutely. And I know this was sort of, I guess, the, was this the beginning of your work with Stonewall? Because I know this sort of came out. Um, at the same sort of time as the hate crime stats were released. Yeah, so basically I spoke out about this experience. Um, and the reason, actually another reason why I did that is because I had been speaking to Stonewall about a partnership with them.
Um, because they were working on a campaign around, um, hate crime. And I was a part of that and I wanted to help bring awareness to their campaign as well. Which it did, which I was really happy about. And essentially their campaign is all around, um, a partnership they have with Vodafone for an app called Zotiria, and basically what that app is, is another way of documenting any sort of hate crime or homophobic experience that you may be a part of, and if you don't want to go and report it to the police for whatever reason, you're able to document it on the app with the hope that that will continue to create a wider picture of what the problem is.
It also allows you to access any sort of support networks you might need. off the back of that experience. And so it's a really amazing app and really amazing platform that Stonewall, Stonewall are part of. And yeah, I wanted to be a part in like making people aware of that. Absolutely. And I know I'd heard of the app before, it was actually a student was talking to me about it.
Um, and I think it's brilliant. It's a great way to be able to sort of, yeah, capture that sort of information about the severity, the amount of hate crimes in the UK. Um, without necessarily having to put queer people also in a situation if they're not comfortable around police. Um, so I definitely think it's such an important app to be developed.
Um. Yeah, and I think like, unfortunately, we don't have the goodwill of the people in charge right now. So. We have to create our own stats and our own sort of tools to protect ourselves and this is a great example of us doing that. So that was why I was really passionate about being a part of raising awareness for that and that was why I spoke out about the experience that I had.
And thank you so much for sharing that, both in general and here today. Um, I know that, yeah, can't necessarily be easy to talk about, but as you said, just starting these conversations and getting people to openly share them. Uh, and it was one of the things she said earlier, like, the drop in, uh, sort of, homophobic hate crimes.
It's not what I was expecting at all, because, talking to my friends on Twitter, I've never actually... Yeah. And I think it just goes to show that it's definitely down to a lack of reporting. Um, so yeah, thank you again for, for sharing that. You're very welcome. And then one of the last things I wanted to talk about in terms of, uh, your activism is that you are very, very vocal in your support for trans rights.
And I know you were telling us earlier about that you've partnered with the Transgender Clinic and I saw, obviously you attended Trans Pride in London earlier this year. Thank you. So, I was wondering for you, why do you think it is so important to stand up for trans rights? Do you know, I actually, the reason why has always been quite clear to me but it never, it was never more clear until I was at Trans Pride and I, I, I watched something happen and I was a part of something actually happening.
I remember I was at Trans Pride or a stand at Trafalgar Square. And there was these guys who were there to cause trouble. They had a massive big camera, like, and lighting and audio equipment with them. And they were filming some YouTube video and they were going around everyone in the crowd and trying to rile them up.
And there was a, there was a trans girl standing there on her own. With her umbrella in the rain, she just wanted to be a part of the march, and just was there minding her own business, had her head down, was just looking at something on her phone, was not, not threatening anyone in any way, shape or form.
And these guys went straight up to her, shoved a mic in her face, shoved a camera in her face, what are you doing here, why are you here, um, who are you, what are you, like just being so, so intimidating, so threatening to this poor girl. And I remember thinking, what is going on here? I walked over and I pushed the mic out of her face, pushed the camera away and said, leave her alone, she's standing here on her own.
And it erupted into a massive, sort of, nearly physical situation where the girl was really upset, she was terrified of these guys. The guys were then getting really riled up, threatening other people in the crowd. The police were there, not doing very much, and it was just a really horrible experience for people who were just there to try and be a part of something.
So I say all that to say, I feel that at the moment, the trans community are so vulnerable. They are extremely, extremely vulnerable. They are extremely vulnerable, um, and we have to do our part to protect them because in many cases they do not have the privilege to protect themselves because they are outnumbered and they are vastly brought like they are being They are outnumbered and they are being targeted disproportionately, like there's, they make up less than 1 percent of the population, way, way, way less than 1 percent of the population, yet somehow all the targets are pointed at them.
So because they're so vulnerable, myself as a cis gay white man. I need to be there to protect them because, like I said, they don't necessarily always have the privilege of being able to do it themselves so, yeah, I guess that's a long way and a winded way of saying why. But yeah. Does that make sense?
Yeah, no, absolutely. And it goes back to so much of what we talked about today is that allyship of using a platform to support others. And I think, for me, it's very similar. Like, I... Um, very vocal throughout work, and it's, I'm very lucky to work in a place where I'm able to use that and sort of work with a lot of different departments.
So after the release of the, um, hate crime stats, for example, we were able to work with the comms team here at the university to put out a statement in support of trans rights and sort of, show our support. And I think that's, for me, it's being able to do something like, even if it's the smallest thing, it's being able to support the trans community because yeah, we've got a government.
The situation happening here as for the government, it's actually not even about trans people. It's just that they are devising conveniently there as a good scapegoat to cover up the real issues that are going on within our government. And the trans people are just, unfortunately, Yeah, being scapegoated and being targeted and, um, that's why I, yeah, I want to, I want to be there to protect that community because, yeah, they just need it right now, I guess.
Amazing. Thank you. And I know we, we've spoke briefly before we started recording about your sort of partnership with a transgender clinic. So could you tell us a bit more about that? Yes, so I'm working with the Transgender Clinic at the moment, um, for an event that's been hosted at Heaven on the 13th of December.
It's called Live Your Truth, and it's been run by the absolutely amazing, um, Jackson Feeley. He's such a trans legend. He's doing so much amazing impact work within the community. I'm really excited about that event. Um, I would urge anyone to come along and support. It's essentially a fundraiser and benefit.
for the trans community to support Transgender Clinic who are doing such amazing work and then I'll be there hosting. So that's something that I'm really excited about. Amazing, thank you. And that brings us to nearly the end of Spill the Tea today. But before we do end, we just have three final quick questions.
And the first one is, what would you say is your favourite thing about being queer? Words that I always live by are your queerness. That's something I really strongly feel. I feel like my queerness has always been my superpower. Actually, to give you a very quick story, I remember one time I was in an office and we were doing a, kind of like, a team building exercise where we had to write down each person in our teams their superpower and their kryptonite.
And I remember everyone wrote down for me in the office, they were writing various superpowers, but the kryptonite that everyone wrote was that I was too sassy and I'll always, it'll always stay with me that everyone thought or tried to say that that was somehow like a weakness of mine. I remember then after that I decided I was really upset by it actually because I felt like what do you mean sassy like that just feels a bit coded for something but I kind of overcame that feeling I realized actually my sassiness who I am my personality my queerness is which is what I equate my sassiness to.
As my superpower, it's not my weakness. So, yeah, that's how I feel about that. Absolutely, I know. I've done very similar in the office of sort of building just a lot of that diva energy into sort of my own personal brand of just, this is, this is who I am. Um, and it's funny because since I started doing that, I feel like a lot more people now lean into it as well.
Um, and even will say like that's something they find really endearing about me or something like that, so completely agree. Yeah. And then moving on, if you could choose three queer icons to have dinner with, who would they be? Oh wow, okay. Anyone, throughout history. Throughout history, right, okay. So, I'm gonna first of all go with Lady Gaga because I absolutely love Lady Gaga and she's just had a real impact in my life, especially in my teenage years coming out as gay.
The next person is probably quite obvious, Freddie Mercury. Yeah. Absolutely love Freddie, again, for the impact that he's had within my community. And I just feel like Freddy and Lady Gaga together would just be an absolutely iconic duo. Absolutely. Who would be the third one? I'd be tempted to say, maybe George Michael.
Love. Because I love George Michael, he's just, he's so cool. Um, George Michael or Ellen Joan, one of the two. That sounds like a fun dinner party. Sounds quite fun, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, that does sound good. Yeah. And then finally, what advice would you give to younger or newer members of the LGBTQ I guess my advice would be like what I said before, your queerness is your superpower, always remember that.
Use your queerness to your advantage, lean into it, don't fight it, just be yourself. I think that whenever I started to really embrace my queerness and who I am, is when I realised in my life. And when I started to really accomplish things and started to really feel confident in myself, um, I think that would be my work, my advice.
Just, yeah, own your queerness. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Dan, for our third episode of Spill the Tea. Incredible to speak to you. Thank you. For anyone listening that wants to keep up to date with Dan and the HIV vaccine trial, you can find him on Instagram or TikTok at Dan at Dan Harry PR.
To find out more information about HIV World AIDS Day and what you can do to help stop HIV transmissions in the UK by 2030, please do check out the Terence Higgins Trust at THT. org. uk And thank you so much for listening to the latest episode of Spill the Tea with me, your host, Jay Blomfield. We hope you've enjoyed this episode and will join us for our next one, which will be released during LGBT History Month.
If you've enjoyed this episode, please do share with your friends, family, enemies, or anyone that may be interested in listening. We'll see you next time when we continue to spill the tea.