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HR entrepreneur Mike Coffey, SPHR, SHRM-SCP engages business thought leaders about the strategic, psychological, legal, and practical implications of bringing people together to create value for shareholders, customers, and the community. As an HR consultant, mentor to first-stage businesses through EO’s Accelerator program, and owner of Imperative—Bulletproof Background Screening, Mike is passionate about helping other professionals improve how they recruit, select, and manage their people. Most thirty-minute episodes of Good Morning, HR will be eligible for half a recertification credit for both HRCI and SHRM-certified professionals. Mike is a member of Entrepreneurs Organization (EO) Fort Worth and active with the Texas Association of Business, the Fort Worth Chamber, and Texas SHRM.
You've got to educate your client, not school them, be a partner with them, you know, but you have to have the nerve, and I'll use that word, to push back on them and say, what you're looking for is is just not realistic. And sometimes you don't even take the job, but the client that understands that and partners with you on that, they're gonna be your best client and they're gonna respect you and guess what? They're gonna call you the next time they have a job.
Mike Coffey:Good morning, HR. I'm Mike Coffey, president of Imperative. Bulletproof background checks with fast and friendly service. And this is the podcast where I talk to business leaders about bringing people together to create value for shareholders, customers, and the community. Please follow rate and review Good Morning HR wherever you get your pod podcast.
Mike Coffey:You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, or at goodmorninghr.com. Back in ancient history, 2021, 2022, you couldn't throw a dead cat without hitting an open wreck for a recruiter. Driven by the overheated labor market, companies were desperate to find internal or external recruiters to help them fill positions. The subsequent cooling of the labor market has eased that pressure some and many companies are now realizing that while their recruiting process was delivering quantity of candidates, the quality wasn't always on the mark. To discuss the current state of the recruiting market and how to get the most bang from your buck, I'm joined today by my friend, Mike Kahn.
Mike Coffey:Mike's HR career spans 4 decades, including being an HR practitioner for 22 years and now almost 20 years recruiting HR professionals. He has supported businesses from retail to manufacturing to financial services for for with firms as few as a 100 employees to Fortune 20 companies. Mike is a past president of HR Houston and a past state director of Texas SHRM, the state HR association, where he and I worked together for several years. I'll add that he's also one hell of a vocalist and a lot of fun at parties. Welcome to Good Morning HR, Mike.
Mike Kahn:Well, thank you, Mike. I appreciate it. Very glad to be here.
Mike Coffey:So we're winding down the summer. The Q3 will be over before we know it. What's your take on the job market so far this year and how is it different from the last couple years?
Mike Kahn:Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, we're seeing, kind of a mixed bag to be very candid with you. The, kind of the tech downturn definitely, you know, a lot of times perception is reality
Mike Coffey:Yeah.
Mike Kahn:And other people will pick up on that. So certainly there were a lot of tech individuals that were impacted, but it did give a pause to a lot of different industries. So it has been a guarded, job market, I would say. What hasn't changed, quite frankly, is it's always a chore finding the talent you need. I'd say good talent, but that's kind of, not it depends on what your definition of good is.
Mike Kahn:So that hasn't changed a bit and the need for good qualified candidates, is as strong as it's as it's ever been and that's where we come into play.
Mike Coffey:Yeah. I think, a couple years ago, it wasn't good talent. It was good enough. Right? I mean, so many employers were just, you know, looking for a pulse.
Mike Coffey:And I've seen it, you know, and certainly our business is actually up this year even with same year clients, but I'm seeing a real shift. And I'm curious if you're seeing it away from hiring overhead positions. They're really looking for operations roles. They're looking for people who are gonna produce revenue rather than, you know, accounting, finance, HR, a lot of those. I'm we're seeing that a lot of the background checks that we're running are you know?
Mike Coffey:And as I'm talking to clients, they keep they you know, the HR leaders say, yeah. Our executive team is saying tap the brakes, hold off. We wanna see what happens with the election. We wanna see what happens with the economy. But, yeah, we definitely need to do these things that produce revenue.
Mike Coffey:Are you seeing that kind of thing too?
Mike Kahn:We're we're seeing similar, similar trends. I won't say that is new though, Mike. I think ever since really kind of COVID, kind of we came out of COVID, we have seen that guarded response to who they bring in terms of more the support or operations type type individuals, a little bit more replacement than net new, but I will say one interesting thing about HR, COVID was actually opened a lot of people's eyes about HR professionals they'd never seen before. So in the HR world, which is my primary realm, Burnett does everything, but in my world, we kind of came out with a new respect in many regards from some companies because of what we brought to the table during COVID. We kind of created something out of nothing, you know, sending people home.
Mike Kahn:What do you do with people that test positive? How do we measure people working at home? So from my, you know, kind of expertise in HR, that has almost been a elevated HR in the eyes of some of the companies that saw us more as just kinda, you know, get people paid and stay out of trouble.
Mike Coffey:And, you know, I'm probably spending too much time on social media in the HR groups, my favorite being the evil HR lady on Facebook, but there are a number of interesting HR groups for professionals. And I'm seeing that there are a lot of HR professionals who are talking about how difficult the job market is for HR professionals right now, and I get the sense that a lot of those folks are not and I'm like, no offense to anybody out there looking for a job. It sucks to be unemployed, but as, you know, a lot of the anecdotal evidence I'm seeing is that the strategic HR people, people who are really truly, you know, truly business partners, truly strategic people are doing better, in finding their next role than people that are more transactional. Is that kind of what you're seeing in in your searches?
Mike Kahn:Yeah. Well, yes. I could agree to that to, you know, to a certain degree, I think there is still some learning curve, not like when I first got into HR back in the, you know, mid 80s or so, people understand what HR can bring to the table. On the strategic side, a lot of companies are still being educated on what that looks like, how you can impact the business and not just support. So, the specialties are still, I'm seeing more trend towards specialties, I.
Mike Kahn:E, total rewards professionals, people in, who have expertise even in employee relations, versus generalists. I think the generalist is having a little bit more challenge Interesting. Than those who specialize because they, to your point, they almost have to have a direct outcome. We don't have a compensation analyst. We need a compensate.
Mike Kahn:We don't have a benefits person versus we don't have a business partner.
Mike Coffey:So those individuals who can address a specific pain that the employers are feeling, rather than because it's funny because I remember early in my career in HR in the nineties, it was everybody don't get a specialization, become a generalist, you know, be that SPHR that PHR that that, you know, that broad brush professional which I think is still probably valuable, but I think what you're saying now is really having that niche, that deep expertise in one area that can can relieve, an employer's need is is really helpful.
Mike Kahn:Let's say it's a very valid avenue to go where it may not have been before. Now, obviously, you have to be a larger employer to have a comps analyst and and not anything else, but there's there's definitely a path for specialists to get very good jobs, have a very lucrative earning career, quite frankly, to be blunt, and, as as well as the the specialist.
Mike Coffey:And so narrowing it down to recruiters, there was a time a few years ago where, you know, like I said, in house recruiters could set their own salaries pretty much. I mean, everybody was seemed to be scrambling to find them. And then certainly, the recruiting firms were all looking for for people because they were getting inundated with employers' resumes. Is my feeling right that some of that's chilled a little bit and it's not as as frenetic as it was?
Mike Kahn:It has chilled, and I think it's a couple of of reasons for that. One is the technology and the advanced AI type of it doesn't take long as to just get that AI that did it. But,
Mike Coffey:drinking game. Yeah. Here we go.
Mike Kahn:Thank you. That's right. But no, seriously, I mean, with with the tools that are available, in in house recruiters can be more efficient just like we can on the external side. So I think there is more efficiency that companies are seeing and the thing that I've always advocated and I try and do as a search consultant and that's not a, you know, kind of a euphemism for a recruiter, There is there are recruiters who just get you resumes. What I try and do is educate not only the clients, but even internal HR as to what you should expect from your recruiters, and I'm happy to work with them, be an additional resource, not replace them.
Mike Coffey:Yeah. Over the years, I've worked with a lot of bad recruiters, both when I was in corporate America and working through clients, helping, you know, both internal recruiters, you know, and external. In the early nineties or when I started my career in the late eighties, there were recruiters who would really go out and beat the bushes. You would get these random calls from people who somehow found you. And this is before, you know, social media, LinkedIn, or anything like that who somehow found you.
Mike Coffey:You get this cold call from somebody at the office asking if you're interested in changing jobs. And the first time I I got one of those, I thought it was a scam. I had no idea. And, and but I think maybe social media, LinkedIn, the job boards have have killed some of those skills, or that there's not a lot of folks out there doing that And, you know, I hear from clients. I, you know, I use this outside recruiter.
Mike Coffey:You know, they're getting a big fee, and what they're sending me are resumes right off Indeed. And I'm like, well, you probably need to vet your your external recruiters a little bit more and set better expectations. So what do you think an employer, whether it's an internal recruiter they're looking for that really, you know, fills slots or outside, what ought they be looking for? How do you evaluate what you're gonna get for that?
Mike Kahn:You know, I kind of I refer to it sometimes when I'm training my younger or newer colleagues coming in, the checklist mentality where somebody gets a job description, let's say, or gets a description of somebody tells them what they want in a job. They say I want this, I want this, and I want this. And so some less experienced, I will say, recruiters, because they don't last long. If they if that's how they operate, they're just not gonna be effective. But kind of that checklist mentality, okay, have to have a degree, have to have 5 to 7 years in marketing, whatever it may be.
Mike Kahn:That's not who our clients are looking for. And clients are either internal again or external. If you're an internal recruiter, you have to really dig deep. You have to not understand what the warehouseman qualifications for, you need to walk out into the warehouse and see how they work. So that when you talk to potential candidates, you can really dig deep into what they're doing.
Mike Kahn:In a more professional setting, like as the primary what I do, fit is probably 85% of every hire. It's not their background or experience. I tell people, somebody can have 50% of what you're looking for, but if they're the good cultural and fit for your company, you might hire them. If they have a 100% of all the skills, but are not a fit, there's no way you're gonna hire them. So to your point about the access to and LinkedIn is wonderful, it's a gold standard if it's used correctly, but people learn so much from that.
Mike Kahn:They go, oh, this person fits. Yeah. I'll submit them. They don't, you know, if they don't talk to them and really dig deep, my when I talk to a when I interview a candidate, it's not about things that are on their resume validating what they did, it's what's not on the resume. It's how they think.
Mike Kahn:It's what's important to them in the next in the next role, and and is it a good match that way, and I think sometimes you get some recruiters where they do most of the talking. I do very little talking in an interview. That's you want to learn from your candidates. So I don't know if that addresses some of the things you're talking about.
Mike Coffey:And so there's, you know, I've got a you you know, let's say you're the external recruiter and search firm, and what do you you know, let's just talk about you and and your Yeah. Your experience. How do you get to you know, somebody may have all, like you said, all the skills, and they may work just fine in company a. But in company b, they're not a good culture fit. They're not, which is you know, it can still be a taboo term, but I think there's such a thing as, you know, you know, having somebody who just doesn't appreciate or enjoy or really engage with a certain company's culture.
Mike Coffey:How do you evaluate how do you get to know that company culture before you go start talking and looking at candidates?
Mike Kahn:And you're absolutely and there's nothing taboo about it because the fit is, and it's not a good or it's not a gender thing or race thing or anything like that. It's just how we communicate to each other. But to your question, when I am asked to engage in a search, I will spend anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour on that initial intake, hopefully with the hiring manager involved because it's like the old telephone game. Yes. They told the recruiter or whomever I'm talking to what they're looking for, but then sometimes I'll go back even after that if it's an internal recruiter, let's say, and go back and have another 20 minute conversation with the manager and learn what are those 3 or 4 things you really want.
Mike Kahn:So my intakes are long, but that's because it's hard to dig deep, because people aren't used to those kind of questions a lot of times, you know, from a recruiter. They just want to know that they have this and this, but that's what they're paying me to do. Right. And I also, whenever possible, visit the client. Even if it's just an office, like, oh, we're just a bunch of offices just a bunch of offices and cubes.
Mike Kahn:But, you know, I can spend 20 minutes in an office and get a feel for the vibe, whether it's high energy, what the workforce looks like, what it feels like, you get that vibe. And I tell my clients, I say, look, me visiting on-site is going to help you and me help me in filling your search quicker. It just does because when then when you talk to the candidate, you can say, here's what to expect. So I get to know them well, and then when I submit candidates, I always ask, at least for the first few submittals, said, I'm gonna talk to you about this person, I'm not just gonna send you a resume with a write up, we're gonna present in person, I'll send you the write up, I have no problem with that, but I'd like to present them in person so we can get a dialogue going so I can tell you maybe their resume doesn't look right, their background, but here's why I think they're good for it. So it's an extensive process upfront, but it certainly pays off instead of having to hit miss and, as we say, throw things against the wall instead of having to go through 20 resumes, maybe we go through 5 resumes until we till we hone in on that person.
Mike Kahn:So that's that's how I like to operate.
Mike Coffey:And let's take a quick break. Good morning. HR is brought to you by Imperative, bulletproof background checks with fast and friendly service. 25 years ago, I founded Imperative to help risk averse companies make well informed decisions about the people they involve in their business. And to be honest, many of our clients came to Imperative after they got burned by a cheap background check, and then they were referred by their attorney, their HR consultant, or another trusted advisor.
Mike Coffey:Because our research is more thorough and our reporting more robust, it's sometimes hard for an employer searching for a new background screening partner to conduct an apples to apples comparison of imperative to other screening companies. So we've compiled a short list of 6 questions that you should ask any prospective screening partner to ensure that you understand what they're really trying to sell you. These questions identify the most common ways background check companies cut corners that impact the quality, accuracy, and depth of the information they provide employers. You can review the 6 questions you should ask of your background check partner at imperativeinfo.com/6. And of course, you can always reach out to Imperative to discuss your background check process through our website at imperativeinfo.com.
Mike Coffey:If you're an HRCI or SHRM certified professional, this episode of Good Morning HR has been pre approved for 1 half hour of recertification credit. To obtain the recertification information, visit goodmorninghr.com and click on research credits, Then select episode 166 and enter the keyword recruiter. That's recruiter. And if you're looking for even more recertification credit, check out the webinars page at imperativeinfo.com. And now back to my conversation with Mike Kahn.
Mike Coffey:So I think the often in the hiring process, the the weakest link is that hiring manager because, you know, they think HR ought to have a drawer full of qual fully qualified candidates that you can just reach in and pull out at any time and and put somebody in there. And often, we don't do a good job, I think, of training them to really be good managers and especially good interviewers and understand what they're really looking for. What value can a recruiter bring to bringing those skills up for a hiring manager?
Mike Kahn:Yes. So a good recruiter will understand the market, understand what they're looking for, and if what they're looking for is realistic. And an effective recruiter will come back and say, let me be very candid with you. I think candor is something that's often missing because, you know, oh, they're my client, every, you know, customer is always right, whatever they say. But if you're a recruiter and you're not saying, you know, let me tell you, this is the most in demand job we source for.
Mike Kahn:And, you know, either your compensation is about 20% below market. These folks, 90% of them work a hybrid schedule. And literally, if you have people coming in 5 days a week, you are cutting out 40% of your potential candidates. You know, things like that. You've got to educate your client, not school them, be a partner with them.
Mike Kahn:You know, but you have to have the nerve, and I'll use that word, to push back on them and say what you're looking for is is just not realistic. And sometimes you don't even take the job, but the the the client that understands that and partners with you on that, they're gonna be your best client and they're gonna respect you and guess what, they're gonna call you the next time they have a job too. So that to me is a difference and maybe, you know, 30 plus years of experience in HR, it's easier for me to say than my some of my colleagues, but that's what's gonna make an effective recruiters be a real consultant to you and not just a resume provider.
Mike Coffey:So where does that consulting really start? I mean, is it does it is it really just at, you know, when you first take that engagement or when, you know, if I'm in house, when that that manager reaches out and says, I've got this approved rack. I need to, you know, I need to post this job. And then then what does it look like throughout the cycle? Where what kinds of consulting or, you know, assistance should a recruiter be giving throughout the cycle there?
Mike Kahn:So internally or externally, I don't think there's a a big difference in the process in what happens. So we can talk both. For both of them, it starts at the very beginning intake. You know, ask the questions that of them. So, you know, what what communication style works best for you?
Mike Kahn:What are your pet peeves? I ask candidates that all the time. Tell me what just what bugs you about people? Or in a resume, what don't you like? What do you look for in a resume?
Mike Kahn:Even kind of off the topic or off the specific type. So, you should do that from the very beginning and all through the process. And that's why I mentioned before, I whenever possible present candidates in person because that creates a dialogue. I'll say, here's why I think this person is good, and the client can look at, you know, we can have a dialogue. Email is not a dialogue.
Mike Kahn:Text is not a dialogue. And so they can say, well, you know, I'm looking at this, I'm concerned about this. Well, you know, here's the reason for that. I asked them about that and here's here's why that's like it is, and I don't think that should be a concern. Matter of fact, I asked them on your behalf if this fits.
Mike Kahn:So all the way through, you are doing that check and having that dialogue when you present those first couple of folks, take a pause, get that feedback, that's gonna help you say, okay, you know what, I just heard from you that I've not heard before. And guess what? People change. They learn from candidates. And so, sometimes they will realize, you know, I thought this was important in the candidate.
Mike Kahn:When I first set this up, I realized, it really is nothing, I can't train in 30 minutes. And so, no, I guess that's not a requirement anymore. I don't need that. So that's all through the process whether you're an internal corporate recruiter or an outside consultant like me.
Mike Coffey:Do you see are there differences between the roles that an external recruiter would play in that process and an internal recruiter?
Mike Kahn:Shouldn't be.
Mike Coffey:Okay. I
Mike Kahn:mean, there really there really should just because you work with the same company, You may have an insight on the culture and this manager and you see him in operation. But if you don't understand that, if you've never worked with that manager, if you've never worked with this division, maybe it's a different division you've never worked with, you need to educate yourself just like I do when I call a company.
Mike Coffey:So what are the for a you know, let's say it's a company that has an HR department and they've got some recruiting function too. What are the circumstances where an executive search firm or a professional recruiting firm would be maybe a better option than than, just relying on your internal recruiters?
Mike Kahn:Yeah. No. That's great. Well, if if there if it is a highly specialized field industry, that's that's a time where maybe, you know, you recruit you've never recruited any nuclear scientist before, and all of a sudden you made an acquisition, you need nuclear scientist. Let's talk to an outside firm that specializes in that.
Mike Kahn:So maybe, yeah, there's an area that you don't have a lot to choose from. Maybe it's a confidential search. We often get, you know, somebody unfortunately has to be replaced internally, but we can't let them go yet. So we have to keep it very, very quiet. Our company can't be open about it.
Mike Kahn:So that the out of respect to that individual, they don't kind of realize, wait, that's my job, you know. So we can do it on their behalf without even saying the name. And we're we're a service, we're a service provider. Maybe you've got 80 reps, 80 maybe exaggerated, 40 reps on your on your desk. 30 of those are the same type of jobs that you know very well, but there's some outliers that are just as critical and it's in the best interest from a time and a knowledge standpoint.
Mike Kahn:Let's farm those couple of jobs out and I can focus on getting these 30 IT analysts in here for this project. But this one very specialized area, we can we can go outside and time is money. You know, we ask people, what's the cost of not filling this job? And that's where we come into play, because that's a question not everybody asks, but people go, well, I guess you're right. If it sits for 2 or 3 months unfilled versus 4 or 6 weeks, yeah, that's costing me money.
Mike Coffey:Yeah. Especially if it's production related. Right? Yeah. It's it's helping us get services or, you know, goods out the door.
Mike Coffey:Yeah.
Mike Kahn:Right. So or maybe like I said, sales before, you know, if that territory goes unstaffed for 6 weeks, how much does that does that cost you? So we supplement recruiters and staffing, divisions, staffing departments. We don't replace them by any means, and it's just another good you look at your tools, and you say, what's the best use of of my, tools and the the staffing firms, the professional staffing firms or entry, whatever, we're a good tool to use, and that's the people that that call us.
Mike Coffey:Are you seeing I mean, we've got more generations working in the, you know, workforce than we've had probably ever, you know, from Gen z all the way to to boomers who will not let go. How much difference is there in how you talk to a, you know, an emerging professional versus somebody who's really seasoned? Is there or are they pretty much, going through the same kind of process?
Mike Kahn:It's the same process, Mike. You know, as I mentioned before in when I speak with people, I do as little talking as possible because all I do is prompt the questions and the answers are what makes a difference. It's not the question that makes a difference. So any generation that I'm talking to, it's questions like what's important to you? You know, what where have you made the biggest impact?
Mike Kahn:Even if I speak with an HR generalist, little g's, whether VP or director or whatever, I will say, you know, there's fibers I say there's 7 disciplines within HR, like training and development, talent acquisition, employee relations and such, but when you think about it, which areas do you feel you've really excelled and quite frankly enjoy doing more than others? And people are candid with me, You know, say, oh, you know, I love talent acquisition, really don't wanna get involved in payroll or benefits, and then other people say, oh, I love benefits, I love payroll, employer relations is not my thing, I can manage it and I can, I'm happy to oversee it. But, you know, and that gives you some insight too, into them. So the process doesn't vary. Every time I call a candidate, I remind them, I'm not just calling you about this one job or when I call a client to reach out about if they have any openings.
Mike Kahn:Sometimes, a lot of times, it turns both ways. So with as a candidate or having a job to fill. So the conversation, the process really shouldn't vary by generation.
Mike Coffey:Are there differences in what you're seeing as far as expectations of, employees by generation? Or you know, I'm I'm I've always been skeptical of putting people of, you know, you know, saying men want this, women want this, or things like that. And I think it's I think you can unfairly lump groups together by age too. But do you see differences in expectations between younger professionals and older ones?
Mike Kahn:You know, the biggest, I mean, you know, kind of elephant in the room is is a hybrid schedule and remote schedules. That's not necessarily generational. I have some some younger clients who wanna be in an office because they don't have a good workspace at home or whatever. I have some, very seasoned folks that say, look, I paid my dues, you know, I've started working from home, my kids are expecting me every day when they get off the bus. I don't want to give that up.
Mike Kahn:But it's kind of interesting talking about generations, if I may. People forget even before, of course, COVID was a change, was a was a big moment that we can work remotely. Our employees can work effectively remotely. But you remember before then, when we talked about the, you know, the millennials, You know, it's like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with them? You know, they wanna leave every day at 4:30 because they have a yoga class at 5, you know.
Mike Coffey:That may be teaching, so yeah. So they need to get there. Exactly.
Mike Kahn:There you go. We were both big yoga advocates, I forgot about that. But guess what? That that millennials, when they get home at 8 o'clock, they're gonna log in again. And you may get, an email from them at 10 o'clock at night, they'll go back, but they had their perspective, in my opinion, right, you know, they did have a work life balance and that call for remote and hybrid, particularly from that generation started way before COVID, and COVID just gave them a manifestation to say, see, we we were right.
Mike Kahn:It can be done.
Mike Coffey:And we talk about millennials like they're young, but they are compared to you and me. But, I mean, the oh, yeah. I think the oldest millennials are in their early forties now, so it's not like they're you know? And, you know, and I can tell you on the flip side, you were kind enough to help my son who's an engineer, you know, who moved to Houston, make some connections and and talk about his job search. He's active you know, he's really interested in being on-site.
Mike Coffey:He feels the need to have that mentorship, and, you know, he wants to advance his career. And I'm hearing that more and more, you know, especially, you know, most of my contact with, you know, the Gen z workforce is through my yoga studio when I'm you know, because a lot of the teachers are in that group and and and a lot of students are, and I'm talking to them. And a lot of them, as soon as they find out I'm an HR, you know, guy, they're like, okay. So, yeah, here's what I'm trying to figure out. How do I get back in the office?
Mike Coffey:I'm hearing it from my friends about their own kids too. I want to you know, I've you know, maybe I spent a horrible year isolated during college, you know, during, you know, during COVID, working from home. I mean, you know, my son's an engineer, went to UT, and he did his labs, his engineering labs at home. They sent him kits, and he and I'm like, I'm glad you're not a civil engineer because I don't ever drive across a bridge a civil engineer who did all this work remote would would design.
Mike Kahn:On his bed, in his bedroom. Right?
Mike Coffey:Exactly. Yeah. And so, but, you know, they spent that year, and I think they're looking for connection, and that's where you meet Good. That's where you meet other adults, you know, is is at work. And so
Mike Kahn:Well, yeah. No. That's interesting because I was just talking to somebody last week because somebody and they said, you know, they're moving to Houston. They want a job, and they want to be in this is kind of my social circles. I know nobody in Houston, and you're you're you're spot on, you know.
Mike Kahn:I wanna get my, look somebody can socialize. So I, you know, I want I would like a diverse demographic that includes some folks kind of in my generation and such. So, no, that's a that's a very good observation.
Mike Coffey:Well, I hey. I really appreciate your time. We're right up on half an hour. It flew by, but it's always great to to visit with you, and thank you for sharing with the audience. All of Mike's contact information will be in the show notes and on the website, and I encourage you if you've, if you have needs, reach out to him.
Mike Coffey:He's an all star guy.
Mike Kahn:Thanks Mike. This has been a lot of fun. I appreciate just what I expected with you. I appreciate it.
Mike Coffey:Thanks Mike. And thank you for listening. You can comment on this episode or search our previous episodes at goodmorninghr.com or on Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube. And don't forget to follow us wherever you get your podcast. Rob Upchurch is our technical producer, and you can reach him at robmakespods.com.
Mike Coffey:And thank you to Imperative's marketing coordinator, Mary Anne Hernandez, who keeps the trains running on time. And I'm Mike Coffey. As always, don't hesitate to reach out if I can be of service to you personally or professionally. I'll see you next week. And until then, be well, do good, and keep your chin up.