Catherine Marks - Producer And Mix Engineer

Catherine Marks talks to Kevin Paul about her traditional route into the industry as an assistant to Flood and Alan Moulder, plus her tips for how to approach a mix and get the best out of a track.

Chapters
00:00 - Introduction
00:29 - Getting Started In The Industry
04:22 - Working With Flood
08:50 - The Modern Studio Career Path
12:43 - Developing People Skills
16:21 - Working With Alan Moulder
18:57 - The Mixing Assistant Role
22:26 - Working With Poor Recordings
23:42 - Finding The Vibe Of A Track
29:00 - Mixing Hardware And Software
30:33 - Duration Of A Mix
31:44 - Getting Feedback From The Artist
33:16 - Checking The Mix
34:13 - Performance Over Quantisation
36:37 - Things To Avoid

Catherine Marks Biog
Catherine Marks is an internationally renowned Producer and Mix Engineer, with over 17 years in the industry. Catherine won MPG Breakthrough Producer of the Year in 2016, MPG Producer of the Year in 2018, Heavy Music Awards Producer of the Year in 2020 and, in 2023, Catherine was named Producer of the Year at the MBW A&R Awards.

Catherine produced and mixed Wolf Alice’s GRAMMY nominated ‘Moaning Lisa Smile’, mixed GRAMMY award-winning album ‘MASSEDUCTION’ by St. Vincent, and has produced/mixed six Top 10 UK Albums, including ‘therecord’ with supergroup boygenius in 2023, which achieved UK #1 album status and was nominated for 7 GRAMMYs.

Cementing herself as a global leader in production, Catherine’s credits include: Wolf Alice, Foals, Manchester Orchestra, boygenius, The Killers, St.Vincent, Oscar Lang, The Wombats, Palace, The Mysterines, Frank Turner, Frank Carter and The Rattlesnakes, Alanis Morissette and The Amazons.

https://www.catherinejmarks.com/

Kevin Paul Biog
Kevin Paul started his career as a DJ but quickly found his passion was sound engineering. His first audio job was at Soho Studios in 1991, moving to Konk Studios six months later, where he worked alongside successful producers and engineers such as Bob Clearmountain, Adam Mosley, Pascal Gabriel and Gil Norton, as well as bands such as The Kinks, Galliano, Terrorvision, UFO and Elastica.
 
After working on archiving the Depeche Mode back catalogue in 1994, he was offered an engineering role at Mute Records’ in-house studio, which eventually lead to a position as Head Engineer, which gave him access to the entire Mute Records roster. Highlights include mixing Goldfrapp’s “Felt Mountain”, David Bowie’s “Hours” and Nick Cave’s “No More Shall We Part”. He also worked in 5:1, mixing Moby’s “Hotel”, Goldfrapp’s “Black Cherry“ and more for DVD.

In 2004 Kevin went freelance and re-mixed the entire Depeche Mode and Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds back catalogues for SACD/DVD. Since 2008, Kevin Paul has been in charge of mixing and remixing performances at the iTunes Festivals in the UK and Germany. He has mixed over 100 artists to date, including Adele, Ed Sheeran, Alicia Keys, Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds, The XX, Calvin Harris, Foo Fighters, Jack White, Linkin Park, Florence & The Machine, Deadmau5, David Guetta, Jessie J., Norah Jones, Oasis, Mumford & Sons, N.E.R.D., Lykke Li, James Blunt, KT Tunstall, Hot Chip, Paul Weller and many more.

He continues to record, engineer, produce and mix many projects in music and film, runs the mixing and surround mixing modules for the Masters Degree course at UK’s Westminster University and divides his time between London and Berlin. Recent works include the International selling new album by Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds and mixing the latest album of Denmark’s “Dúné” with the first single premiering at the Danish Music Awards, plus the latest iTunes Music Festival.

http://www.kevin-paul.com/

Catch more shows on our other podcast channels: https://www.soundonsound.com/sos-podcasts

Creators and Guests

Host

Kevin Paul

Kevin Paul has worked as a mix engineer at Mute Records (Goldfrapp, David Bowie, Nick Cave). Since 2004 he has been freelance, working with such artists as Depeche Mode and engineering and remixing the iTunes festivals in the UK and Germany (Adele, Ed Sheeran, Alicia Keys, Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds, Calvin Harris, Foo Fighters, Jack White, Linkin Park, Florence & The Machine, Deadmau5, David Guetta, Jessie J., Norah Jones, Oasis, Mumford & Sons, Paul Weller and many more). Kevin runs the mixing and surround mixing modules for the Masters Degree course at UK’s Westminster University.

What is People & Music Industry?

Welcome to the Sound On Sound People & Music Industry podcast channel. Listen to experts in the field, company founders, equipment designers, engineers, producers and educators.

More information and content can be found at https://www.soundonsound.com/podcasts | Facebook, Twitter and Instagram - @soundonsoundmag | YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/soundonsoundvideo

Kevin Paul
Welcome to the Sound On Sound People and Music Industry Podcast Channel with me Kevin Paul. Today we feature one of our legacy episodes with award winning producer and engineer Catherine Marks. Catherine talks to me about her early beginnings and what it's like to work with Alan Mulder and Flood and how she encourages the artists that she works with to perform at their highest level.

Catherine, thanks for taking the time to talk to me.

Catherine Marks
My pleasure. Let's start at the beginning. How did you start working here? I'm interested to know what Flood said, but I started in 2005, just down the hall, and essentially assisting his assistant, Andy Savers. But, yes, I met Flood in 2001 and, and then finally after I'd finished my degree in architecture in Australia, he gave me the opportunity to come and, and try working for him over here.

Why were, if you were an architect or training to be an architect, what made you want to come into the studio? I think I had played the piano growing up and I'd always loved Music and writing music and, uh, I, I had wanted somehow a career in music, but I didn't know what kind of career and at school, they don't exactly encourage that unless you're going to be a classical pianist or a performer or after having met Flood in 2001, he said He had suggested that I kind of go, when I go back, went back to Australia, I should join bands and write music for other people to kind of explore what area it was that I wanted, I was interested in basically, because I didn't know what it meant to be a producer.

I didn't know what it meant to work in a studio. And there were just sort of little things that kind of kept piquing my interest. Like, uh, I was in a band and we got a grant to record an album and I learned about reverb. And I thought that was like the most amazing thing and all the different kinds of reverbs.

And I went and Googled it and. Uh, I was asking the engineer lots of questions. I mean, but again, like I wasn't aware that that was, it was something that I was interested in. I think flood, uh, flood was just providing another opportunity for. for me to explore another side of working or working in the music industry.

And I didn't know that I'd enjoy it or be any good at it. It was just, let's see. And nearly 15 years later, you're still in the music industry. Turns out I really liked it and it wasn't that bad at it. No, no, obviously we'll, we'll talk about that a little bit later. So you've, did you come from Australia all the way here to work with Flood?

Yes. Okay. So you've flown halfway around the world. Turned up at his door basically, and basically he's given you a an obvious opportunity Yes, did you have any expectation of what it's like to work in the studio? Well being completely naive I thought I'm gonna be you know, I'm flying to England to produce records.

Okay, like straight away I didn't know and that's a great expectation Well, yes, but I no one had really explained to me the cut this the sort of steps that you required slides The kind of hierarchy, the structure, yeah, the structure, the, the, uh, the time that it takes and the roles that exist and that I was going to be starting at the bottom in order to learn and gain experience.

I just thought it was about, you know, someone sat at the room and was like, that needs more reverb or, you know, I don't know. I didn't know again, this is 15 years ago. I think that's an expectation for, for a lot of people. I mean, maybe not now. Yeah, you know the the internet provides all of that information for you, right, you know, but obviously even even 15 years ago Yeah, you know people did have an expectation possibly that the studio was just a place you turned up and things happened Well, you yeah, like having a good idea was all you needed, but it's so much more than having a good idea Yeah, good ideas the the first first thing in the process.

Yes What's it like working with flood? It was challenging. That's not exclusive to flood though. No, that's not it That's that you know, the studio environment can be challenging. Yeah, I would the first few years were very challenging Also, and it had a lot to do with my naivety about again, what the dynamic of the studio and how to be and I had no technological kind of Understanding or previous knowledge literally you came in cold You I mean, even when I played in bands, the other guys in the band like plugged my keyboard into my amp because I didn't know the difference between input and output.

I mean, I was that. I think some of the most successful musicians still operate on that basis. Yeah, I'm sure. I've worked with plenty of them. When I first started, there was definitely a particular, ethos and expectation and standards of how to behave as an assistant in the studio. And that was not expressed necessarily to me.

I sort of had to pick it up. Um, so it was a struggle. However, throughout, as I sort of begun to understand that, and as we worked, uh, together more and more, I mean, he's an incredible creative and a maverick in the studio. And, and, and, He's, I mean, he taught me kind of loads of things. One of the things that I even say to bands is I remember we were recording Polly Harvey and there was a 19A19 mic, a Lomo mic, and he was sitting at the desk and she was sitting behind him and he just sort of turned the mic stand in the vicinity of her guitar and hit record.

It wasn't, you know, he didn't spend like hours placing the mic. It was just, it's. On the fly, as it were. Yes. And, you know, so kind of always being in record and always capturing something. And, and also just in the way that he would record things. Um, I mean, I kind of learned back to front, like I learned not, you know, how there's all these rules about recording.

I learned without rules. Yeah. And then later on, I sort of understood like the technicals. Yes. Uh, like there was things that he would do, like place a mic in a cupboard, you know, just, and it would sound amazing. I just, there were lots of, um, Yeah, I mean, I, I, I have had the pleasure of working with Flo many, many years ago on, on a PJ Harvey record actually.

And for the week that I was assisting him, it was the most enlightening time in terms of production. So, you know, and, and obviously. I know, he makes incredible records, but he did me so many favours even though I thought I was being constantly punished, but he, he just, he, he would, he'd always be throwing me in the deep end, without any explanation or any sort of brief, it just would be, Can you give an example of something like that?

Uh, I mean, I guess You mean the deep end, as in, Okay, you're going to record something now? Yeah, I mean, it was more the, it was more putting me in situations that I'd gain a lot of experience and necessary experience uh, without having had any previous experience and kind of Bluffing my way through it until I finally got it, I guess.

I mean, I remember one of the examples is after we'd done the Polly record, which, uh, White Chalk, which I think we'd spent a good six months on, but we were recording to tape. And obviously, and I was, it was myself, John Parrish and Flood. Yeah. Um, and while I was tape up essentially, I always had the backup of flood and then Ed Harcourt was doing a record or producing a record and their engineer had pulled out.

So flooded recommended me and I'm like, God, I've never properly engineered and recorded onto tape all by myself. And he was just like, just do it, you know, and, and, and because he seemed to have faith in me, or at least projected faith to Ed. And Ed seemed to trust me. And then that sort of gave me confidence to be able to do that.

And we managed to do that. And still actually one of my favorite sounding records that I've ever done. There's, there's a thing here at the assault on battery studios. And I discussed this with, with both Alan and flood about the, the ethos and the career path people that start working here have to go through for me, that's, that's really important in terms of, because.

The old school studio doesn't exist anymore. No, you know, people aren't doing that on the studios. Well, the old school studio, in my, my understanding is the way that flood and Allen were kind of brought up in the industry. It was like when they went to Trident and there was like a whole team of assistants who were kind of vying for particular opportunities and the kind of, you know, it was survival of the fittest, essentially.

Which, although it's not as cutthroat now, uh, and the people who do come through the doors, you know, they're sort of nurtured a bit more and we help cultivate their careers, there is still an element of like, you know, you've got to, you've kind of got to pay your dues and you, there is an attitude that you need to have and a trust that you need to earn in order for you to kind of progress to the next level and instilling that those kind of, you know, Uh, I guess work ethic and that work ethic and it's something that I learned when I was coming through as well.

And you're right. There isn't, there isn't that kind of studio culture that exists as much anymore. That's right. There isn't, isn't there? And, and that's one of the things that for me is, is incredibly important here. Yeah. And I think people need to hear about it because. Without that ethos, our creative art, if you like, just gets washed away.

And, and, you know, colleges and universities provide a very particular role in the development of the next generation of producers and engineers and mixers. But it can't provide the type of experience that you would have working in a place like a Salton Battery. No, there's, there's a type of experience that I've, that I've gained.

And look, there's lots of different kinds of producers and, um, and, and. different kinds of career paths. And this is just one, um, they're having had this experience. It's, it's meant that I kind of have the tools to deal with kind of higher pressure and high profile situations now. Where, I mean, I remember being three years in thinking, having been assisting and doing a bit of engineering thinking, well, why aren't I producing records now?

And I remember Flood saying, it's going to take you at least 10 years. And I was like, what, 10 years? I didn't know this. I wanted to be the biggest producer in the world, like that. Uh, but he was right. It's just, it kind of took the time that it took. And there were a lot of lessons and a lot of mistakes that I made along the way, but that was part of the experience.

And, you know, when I did start to get high profile jobs and, and, and work and production work with major labels. And it was still early on in my career. I really felt the pressure and the sense of responsibility in dealing with bigger budgets. And, uh, and I, I still then didn't have the kind of mechanisms to cope with that kind of pressure.

And now, as the years have gone on, I definitely, you know, kind of throw anything at me and I, it just bounces off. I call it the impenetrable force field. So just, you know, any sort of artists, you know, issues or, you know, yeah, just management, record labels, anyone who's sort of got any, any issues, I feel like I can deal with those.

And do you think Flood and Allen have taught you how to approach that? I think just through years of working with them, I've learned from From following the way that they approach dealing with people. Yes. And just how, I mean, that and their kind of level of confidence and skill. Uh, I mean, the technical side is a part of it, but it's not at all the essential part of it.

What do you think is the essential part? I think it's the psychology and the sort of people management and then, and being able to facilitate and, and create situations that are conducive to. Creativity and expanding that creativity so that that creativity transcends to something extremely special. It isn't just about recording something and making it sound good.

It's about kind of elevating the performances and capturing something. Uh, and that is almost an intangible thing, you know, knowing how to like twiddle some knobs and getting a good sound. I love like the tech, you know, how tactile that is. And I love the Sonics is definitely a massive part of it. In allowing whatever that energy or feeling is to come through the speakers, so I don't know, it's like a whole kind of series of interweaving parts and experience that through having worked with Alan and Flood and having them as my mentors, which I was very fortunate to.

Yeah, that it's kind of taught me, definitely taught me and influenced me heavily. How does Katharine create that atmosphere in the studio for your artists to work? Well, it's about sort of building trust and empowering the artists, I think. Rather than me dictating how something is going to go, I'm reacting to, I guess, the energy or the dynamic in the studio.

And also trying to make it enjoyable and, you know, Fun. Yeah. Um, and not, and the studio can be quite an intense and tense environment. Yes. So often trying to ease that and that tension and making the artist feel as comfortable as possible. Comfortable in the sense that. Uh, they feel comfortable enough to be themselves, whether they're going to be assholes or miserable or just whatever they need to express.

So I try and get that quite quickly, I guess, and achieve that. And I usually do that in pre production. I guess then you have to have a very good intuition. Yes. About people. Well I think I've learnt, and again that's through working with Flood and Alan, but learning to read people and read their kind of needs.

As an assistant you have to do that, you have to be thinking sort of three steps ahead. I just had this wonderful assistant. Uh, in America who I'd call his name and he'd already be standing right next to me. Yeah. I thought, I thought he was out of the room, but he kind of knew when I needed something or I'd say, would you mind?

And he'd go, already done it before I'd even finished the sentence. He knew exactly what I needed. And we'd only been working together for a few days. So that was, uh, I was like, that was a godsend. Well, that's always helpful, isn't it? Yes. That's always helpful. Yeah. But I was thinking he's going to be a, a good, um, good producer.

Because he made me feel very comfortable. You worked with Flood all those years. Three years, yep. And then, amazingly, they said, okay, we'll go downstairs. And work with Alan Mulder. I know. I think Alan, he had thought perhaps that I hadn't had the, I'd had a kind of erratic education in, from a technical point of view.

So he, and he felt a responsibility, uh, but I'd also coming into work for him, I'd also had a lot of experience engineering and working for other producers. So, uh, I felt well equipped to kind of. Deal with someone of that caliber. Were you engineering by then? I think still just assisting stroke engineering, stroke engineering.

I think I, I do, I did like vocal in production and engineering on pop stuff. Um, I think that's what I was kind of doing at that point. Uh, so by the time I got to Al, I kind of walked in and I said, look, these are the things that I'm good at, use me for those. But here is the stuff that I'm really lacking knowledge in, but you only need to tell me once.

And he was great. He really kind of took the time to, uh, explain a lot of things to me. And, uh, if I ever made mistakes, he would just. Tell me once and when you say a mistake, what do you mean just simple things like the patch bay that sometimes that was something that I wasn't, even though I'd been working at assault battery two for a year, there was, there was still things that I would get confused about.

Uh, and he would, I'd sort of probably not patch something in right, and he would, he would just Talk you through it. Talk me through it, yeah. But then there were other, I guess we'd, we created kind of systems which allowed him to, to take the time, because you know when you're mixing, you obviously, there's not a lot of time, you might have a day and a day and a half, or two days.

You're lucky. So, there isn't a lot of time to explain stuff to people who are there to kind of essentially support you but he did take that time and I'm very appreciative. Were you very inquisitive then? Were you always like I was, I was initially but obviously working with Alan, I wasn't, I mean I, it was more just, I had a job to do so here are the things, the tools that I needed to be the support for him.

If yeah, if there were things that I didn't know, he would just let me know. And yeah, because the, the mixing assistant is quite different to the recording assistant. Yes. Recording. You're always moving around, checking stuff, mixing. You're kind of on standby. Yes, exactly. I was more turned up doing with, uh, can you talk me maybe through, okay.

So first of all, you probably just maybe sat at the back of the studio. Yeah. Kind of just watching. But then eventually you moved forward. Yeah, so I think it wasn't very long until he spawned, I would start preparing mixes for him and also doing stems as well. Like he'd always done his own stems and I think one Friday night I said why don't you go home early and I'll do the stems.

Why don't you do that? And I think because our working relationship had kind of been cemented quite quickly in, in that there was like, it was quite fluid and we were, we were becoming a good team. I think he trusted me to do that. Now, I know it sounds like not a big deal, but for him it was because in, in all his career, he'd always done his own stems.

We both loved systems and file management and color coding and, uh, spreadsheets and, you know, just kind of anything that could make it foolproof and idiot proof. Yeah. Um, you know, like checking recall sheets and double checking. And I mean, I, I really cared about what I was doing. Uh, so yeah, there was a, I guess there was a level of trust there.

So after that, he, I would start preparing mixes. So for example, sessions would come in and I'd kind of arrange the protocol sessions and, uh, add plugins that he would normally use or start balancing it to match a rough mix. And you did that all off your own back? You were just like, okay. Well, it was more just, I can do that, you know, let me do this or let me try this for you.

And then, and then that was the system that kind of became apparent. And then, and then a little while in, I think about six months or nine months in, he was starting to, Uh, get, uh, mix work for perhaps lower budget projects. And so he would say, well, why don't, while I'm working on something else, why don't you do this?

And I was, I'll kind of oversee it. So essentially I was doing mixes and getting my homework marked. But what was so great about working with Alan was obviously having worked with Flood and a load of other producers. I'd never. Being part of the process of finishing off a record, essentially. Yeah. So in my head, I was like, well, you can kind of do whatever and record whatever and someone else is going to fix it down the line.

Yeah. Experiencing working for Alan and the mixing process, I started to understand and love finishing off a project or finishing off a track. And I think that helped me inadvertently to become a better producer because I knew how I wanted to sound later down the line. So not So I would record things how I wanted them to sound in the mix, not thinking this we can process.

Oh, I'll leave it to so and so to sort out. Yeah. Yeah. And therefore, you know, you take that maybe a little bit more time or care or have a bit more thought about it. Well, exactly. And also it's, it's, it's also being considerate because I knew of the kind of, sometimes the quality of the recordings that we were getting and how frustrating it was because you're trying to get something out of it that just doesn't exist.

Nowadays, people are recording anywhere with anything. Yeah. Um, what, what do you do when you're, when you've got a sound or a guitar sound or a drum sound that isn't very helpful, how, how do you approach? I embrace and try and disguise it. Whereas Alan probably wouldn't, he would be quite fastidious and. Uh, he would work very hard to try and get it to where he would want it.

Well, because also that thing, that in itself, and again, and I think, I feel like this is something that Flood, probably unbeknownst to him, kind of taught me that, I mean, things don't have to, have to be perfect and, you know, the way something is recorded, so whether it's like, you know, recorded, one, a drum is recorded, a kit is recorded with a 57.

Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing that's kind of makes whatever the feeling and of the track kind of unique. So rather than going, I wish I had a kick and a snare separate mic or something to create more punch, you, you find something else about the track that, you know, gives you that thing in replace, in replacement to create the, to create the magic.

Yes, exactly. Um, so, so you're mixing with Alan and he's. You started doing the other projects. Yeah. Do you have a sound? Do you have a vibe? Do you have like a, an approach? If I, if I, if I employ Catherine marks to mix my record tomorrow, what am I going to get? Well, hopefully you just an enhancement of what you've already done.

So I love the way Alan mixes because he doesn't try and reinvent the wheel. He kind of gives you back something that in the way that you always wanted it to sound only better. And you're not sure why. And I hope that I do that, but also I hope that I kind of enhance the energy and the emotion and the feeling through the, through the mix.

Well, you definitely do that. I mean, you know, your records with the wombats and the Amazons, they just sound amazing. Thank you. The volume. Yeah. And the power. Is for me anyway, I mean, I was listening to them over the weekend. I was thinking, wow, how'd you get that? Where's that coming from? You know, because all engineers, when they're mixing, they're seeking the Nirvana and this utopian ideal, but we obviously all struggle with that.

Yeah. It's more about feeling. Right for me not getting, uh, rather than thinking, Oh, how's that bass sitting or, uh, you know, he's the EQ of the guitar, right? I'm like, how do all the, how do all the pieces feel together? Okay. And is that something you got from both Flood and Alan, or is that something that you've kind of.

Just thought, no, this is what, this is your intuition there. Well, with, I mean, Fudd and Allen never sat down and said, well, this is my process, you know. Right. So, whether it is something that I inadvertently picked up from them, I don't know. But, if I, I am actually quite conscious of the fact that I, I don't kind of start a mix by listening to a whole bunch of things in solo and, and tweaking that particular sound.

I mean, eventually, like I want to hear things in solo, but I like to kind of massage the whole mix together first with all the elements in there and just getting a balance, just to get like a sort of vibe or something, like something that kind of speaks to me. Um, and I'm sort of also very visual and so in, especially in producing and recording, I kind of like the, the sonics of something to have an imagery to it.

In your mind? In my mind, yeah. Okay, so you're, you're, you're creating a picture of the band? Yes. Or the record? Yes. It's some sort of imagery attached to, um, or, or something filmic or. Like one of the Manchester, the last Manchester Orchestra record I did, uh, I kept thinking about, you know, the TV series Twin Peaks, which can be quite bleak and dark, you know, David Lynch y style kind of, uh, imagery, um, and, and I would, I mean, whether it's apparent or not, it's definitely something that is a starting point for me and it's the, that kind of, you know, I don't know, almost like a sound that you can like, put your hand into the speakers and pluck it out because it's, I don't know, it's, it's, it says something that, that evokes an image or a feeling, all those sort of things really excite me, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, that makes perfect sense. Yeah. It's very esoteric, but it makes perfect sense. So with Al, I did that, I think we did that for a couple of years. Um, and we were also training another, someone else for him to kind of take over for me, but I was essentially working in like a little B room next to Flood's kind of, uh, Alan's main, uh, control room.

Yeah. Uh, and eventually he was like, it's time for you to leave, which was quite devastating, but also because I wasn't really doing anything for him anymore. I was just using the room and getting my own kind of mixed projects. Yeah. But I still loved, I loved working next door to him because also I loved referring to him and.

Uh, almost, I was doing, I was mixing stuff with him in mind, imagining if he was going to come in and mark my homework again, and that happened a few years after that as well, after I'd left, left that room, and I moved to where we are now. And I, but I, there was a point where I, I think I just ran into him and I said, do you mind if I mix without you in mind anymore?

And he's like, I've been waiting for you to say that for ages. Um, but that was kind of great because I took the shackles off and I started using plugins in different ways and, or processing things. In, just kind of trying out my own thing, not necessarily doing the things that I thought were correct, but that felt correct.

Do you mix entirely in the box? Uh, I mix in the box, but I've got, I run through, uh, a summing mixer, analog summing mixer. What one have you got there, the Fat Bustard? Fat Bustard, yeah. Yeah, I like that one. An Obsidian compressor. Domestic Audio Obsidian Compressor. That's the same, is that the same one? As Alan.

Yeah? Yeah. Yeah, that seems really popular. Yeah, it's popular in this building. I got it because of him. I like blue light. Okay, uh, if it was red, you wouldn't be? No, not as interested. Okay. Uh, and then through, I think the VapRap. The VAC Rack is An EQ. Okay, and then you're going into the Manly. Massive passive EQ.

And then straight back in. So you've got an analogue front end. Yes. But primarily mixing in the box. Primarily mixing in the box. All my effects, like um, well a lot of my effects, like delays and reverbs, I process outside the box and print back in. Okay, so do you use a lot of pedals? Yes. For reverbs? Yeah, just, just interesting things that kind of add another That you can't get from a PCM 70?

Yeah, just that add in a different dimension. I, I find it, yeah, it's more kind of three dimensional. Okay. And I also, I, I, I love the kind of colour and the sound of a, of a, The fat bastard I can really hear when something has been mixed in the box actually but only because I'm sort of so attached to kind of that's the sound of that that box the fat bastard how long do you spend on the mix you've done like six hours I could be done yeah sometimes it could I could be done in six hours and then I'll spend like another day tweaking stuff that no one else is going to notice but I usually get the I kind of get the vibe of the mix within.

four to six hours. And if it's not coming, then I have to park it. But it's, that's very rare. Do you use a lot of automation in pushing stuff? Yeah. Into the Busted or? Well, I also drive my, the 192 interface quite hard as well. Okay, you're in the red? Sometimes, yeah. Okay, that's all right. I quite like that. I like that, I like the sound of it.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, like I'll sort of, I'll balance everything. I guess quite statically, and then I'll start to, um, start to do rides for, you know, kind of to enhance particular moments or, um, for things to kind of fall away and then come back again. That's, that's what I'll do, or I'll, you know, use different plugins for different moments in a song or.

And so I'll automate those. When you start in a mix, have you got an idea of what it is you want it to be? At the end, does that go back to the picture thing? Like, do you have like an image of you sit down and you listen to the rough mix? If it's something, if it's something that I've produced, then I already know how I want it to sound.

It's actually harder because you've been hearing the potential the whole way through, and then finally you've got to deliver that potential. So I tend to inch stuff kind of closer and closer to the finished product when it's my own productions. Um, but if it's someone else, and I haven't been part of the process, I usually have a conversation with the artist or the producer, kind of about what they're looking for.

Are they really happy with the rough mix? And if so, it's just enhancing what's already there. Um, and, but how far, you know, I'll usually send a kind of work in progress and ask, you know, have I pushed this too far or, or can I, can we, you know, take it a bit further? And I'll kind of gauge it there. Um, But yes, I, it's sort of, I'll kind of do a lot of things to kind of get myself excited about it.

And then I'll kind of be, I'll listen from top to bottom a few times to kind of see if that feeling still exists. And then I'll send it off knowing in my head, like all the kind of little detail stuff that I want to do. And then that's what happens after that, after they're like, yay, we love it. Which then I'm also really surprised about, because I'm like, really?

You don't have any comments? I can see you've got two or three speakers here. Yeah. Do you listen elsewhere? Are you listening outside, like in the car, or on iPhone? I listen on my iPhone, and iPhone, and headphones. Yeah, you just download it, and check the mix out there. Yeah, well, I can usually tell, like, things that are sort of not great, poke out on my iPhone speakers, which is really bad.

But I've got a pair of M Audio speakers at home, which I'll Sometimes check stuff on if they're quite clear and unforgiving, um, but I know, I mean, I've been working in this room now since 2012, 13, seven, eight years. Uh, so I know this room. I know this room really well. It's so hilarious like this was only going to be temporary.

I mean, it's a essentially a little box, but I kind of love it I just I mean if it works, right? When you're recording, mm hmm and say you're recording, you know the Amazon whoever yeah Are you you when you're doing your drums in a basic? Are you tempo mapping stuff? Are you? Are you going out of your way to, to quantize stuff or are you just very much like, it's a band, let them play.

Uh, what's, what's your feelings about that? Because a lot of people It's so dependent on the project. Yeah. I, I mean, I will go for performance over precision. Yeah, every day? Every time? Mostly, but also sometimes just, it also depends on the way that it's being recorded. Like I've just done a project where Uh, we're doing it over a long period of time and it's been, we were very decisive at the start that the drum sounds were kind of really important to the identity of the songs, whether they were going to be electronic or live drums.

So we've spent a lot of time on that and in order for, So it's less about life. The drums were tracked with a life performance, but essentially we kind of want to have like a really solid foundation. And a lot of things are about rhythms and counter rhythms. So with that, we've been putting things to the grid, but.

It isn't just like we whack bait detective over. We kind of know what the journey should be and sometimes we let things slow, speed up or slow down. Um, so it's not kind of quantized within an inch of its life. Okay. But then, um, but then if, you know, I guess with the Amazons, we recorded to a click, but I didn't quantize the drums.

We. Um, we, on the first record, we didn't, so it was, yeah, it was recorded, but everyone was playing together. So there was the movement and the push and pull existed with, um, everything. So basically just sometimes you do, sometimes you won't, but you'll talk with the band, but you'll always take a performance.

But there is also a way to put things to the grid and be sensitive and not feel like it has been. Um, and that's a skill in itself. I've had great engineers who know how to do that better than me. Yeah. Yeah. No, there's some very good people like that. Things to avoid in the process of making records or mixing records.

Are there some things that maybe people should, that you try to avoid or steer away from? Ah, I don't know. That's a good question. I try and avoid wasting time in the studio. What would be classed as wasting time? Sitting around and chatting about nothing, procrastinating. Sometimes discussions are really important, but you know, when I like to have things that have got happening all the time and to be making the most of.

The studio while we're there during the recording during the recording and the mixing mixing. I'm sort of by myself by yourself and then you send it off and say, you kind of just work. Yeah. Excellent. I think that's good advice. Actually. Yeah. Yeah. Too many people waste time. Yeah. I mean, it's sometimes yeah.

It's, it's totally understandable when you, you know, you might run out of steam and you just need a little brain break, but I find like that if you keep the momentum going, things, you know, sort of great things come out of that and even pure exhaustion, just, uh, it's, it's a different kind of creativity, drive your band.

Yeah, exactly. Well, I think that's a great place to leave it. Okay, awesome. Thank you very much, Katherine Marks. Thank you for listening, and be sure to check out the show notes page for this episode where you'll find further information along with web links and details of all our other episodes. And just before you go, let me point you to the Sound On Sound forward slash podcasts website page where you can explore what's playing on our other channels.

This has been a Mixbus production by me, Kevin Paul, for Sound On Sound.