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Weeks after Congress held its first MKUltra hearing in over four decades, I sit down with survivor Cathy O'Brien to ask what no one in that hearing room answered: is it really over? Cathy explains how mind control techniques built in secret Cold War labs, trauma, drugs, sleep deprivation, quietly spread into pharmaceuticals, media messaging, and even the COVID lockdowns that shaped daily life. She argues the real goal was never just creating spies, but perfecting control over an entire population, and that healing starts with reclaiming free thought. This is a conversation about a program the government says ended in 1973, told by someone who says its methods never stopped.
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Seth Holehouse is a TV personality, YouTuber, podcaster, and patriot who became a household name in 2020 after his video exposing election fraud was tweeted, shared, uploaded, and pinned by President Donald Trump — reaching hundreds of millions worldwide.
Titled The Plot to Steal America, the video was created with a mission to warn Americans about the communist threat to our nation—a mission that’s been at the forefront of Seth’s life for nearly two decades.
After 10 years behind the scenes at The Epoch Times, launching his own show was the logical next step. Since its debut, Seth’s show “Man in America” has garnered 1M+ viewers on a monthly basis as his commitment to bring hope to patriots and to fight communism and socialism grows daily. His guests have included Peter Navarro, Kash Patel, Senator Wendy Rogers, General Michael Flynn, and General Robert Spalding.
He is also a regular speaker at the “ReAwaken America Tour” alongside Eric Trump, Mike Lindell, Gen. Flynn.
So congress tried to hold this hearing before. It got postponed. Then it got postponed again. But then on June 30, more than four decades after congress last looked into the c I a's MKUltra program, it finally happened. The witnesses testified that MKUltra ran a 149 known sub projects across more than 80 institutions.
Speaker 1:We're talking universities, hospitals, prisons, and a lot more. One witness called it the most extreme experiments on human beings that has ever been carried out by a US government agency. Another made the case that we still don't know the full scope of it because the CIA destroyed most of its records back in 1973 before congress could even get to see them. My guest today didn't read about MKUltra and some hearing transcript. She lived through it.
Speaker 1:Cathy O'Brien has spent decades telling the truth about surviving this program and she paid for it. She was targeted. She was dismissed. There are powerful people who wanted her silenced, who wanted this whole story buried, but she kept talking anyway. And in doing that, she gave other survivors the courage to come forward with their own stories too.
Speaker 1:Now if you wanna hear Cathy's full story, the abuse, the recovery, all of it, I've covered that in-depth in my survivor stories series. So make sure you watch her full interview. It's one you don't wanna miss. Because when you know her full story and the full picture of what she survived, you'll better understand what these hearings mean right now. So Cathy is gonna tell us why these hearings are so important, but it's not because she's waiting for the government to come in and do something about it.
Speaker 1:It's because these hearings are part of a much larger battle. It's the battle for the minds and souls of everyone on this planet. Cathy's gonna explain why the most important thing is helping more people to awaken to the evil that surrounds us, to get more people turning towards goodness and compassion. But she's also gonna explain how MKUltra techniques that were honed in underground laboratories and military bases are being used on the entire population in this attempt to turn everyone into mind slaves. But she's gonna show us how to fight back against it, and ultimately, she's gonna explain why it's doomed to fail.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Hulghouse. On this show, I talk to real Americans with real solutions to the real problems that we're facing today. I help you connect the dots between the problems that we see in the present and the decisions made by powerful people in the past. Because once we understand how we got here and what the real history of America actually is, we can remember where we came from.
Speaker 1:We can learn from the past, and we can make real change for a better future. Now before we start, please hit that like button. It helps so much with the algorithm on whatever platform you're tuning in from, and it helps get this information to more people out there. Also, please subscribe and share this with someone who really needs to hear it. And let me know what your thoughts are in the comments.
Speaker 1:I love reading those. Also remember, every Man in America show is done as a podcast as well. So if you want to listen, instead of just watch, just go your favorite podcast app. And if you use Apple Podcasts and you wanna do me a real favor, leave a review on there. Apple Podcasts really prioritizes the shows that have those reviews.
Speaker 1:So if you like the show, leave a review. It's gonna help us reach more people. Alright. Let's get started now with my guest today, Cathy O'Brien. Cathy O'Brien.
Speaker 1:It's always just a a joy, I guess would be the best word to say, a joy, and it's just wonderful having you on the show. So thank you so much for being here with us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me on. I I really appreciate this opportunity, especially at this moment in time. And, yeah, around the survivor community, you are just everyone is is so pleased with the expose that you did given MKUltra Survivor's voice. And, you've you've made such a huge difference for for everyone. And, yeah, I'm I'm very happy to be here.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Well I thank you for that too because you you really helped to make some really good introductions for that, and I'm sure also in promoting it and sharing it to people because and I would say that was arguably one of our most successful series that we've done, just that Survivor Series, where it was there's no agenda behind it aside from just letting survivors of MKUltra, satanic ritual abuse, all these programs, is giving them a platform to tell their story. And it was it was very successful, and a lot of people were really moved by it. I think the people that hadn't seen that information before even were commenting. And so, yeah, I think it really it really played an important role.
Speaker 2:It did. And look at the divine timing of it, you know, before the MKUltra hearings and everything, and it was just at such a time when the survivors' voices should be heard, and they should have been heard already at the hearings. Hopefully, they will be. But regardless, you gave us all voice, and you did it so comprehensively in such a great way, bringing on survivors that have their own unique piece of the puzzle of MKUltra to bring to the table so that it brings the big picture into view because MKUltra is so expansive and has touched so many aspects of our society, and you managed to bring that picture into view. You know, you've accomplished more than the MKUltra hearings have so far.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm just so we're we're all just so thrilled with that.
Speaker 1:Well, think it's it's, it's really important because in my own personal quest to understand the powers that be, understand why the world is how it is, why are there nonstop wars? Why are there terrible things being happening? Why are there oppressive governments? Of course, part of it is just the condition of of mankind. Right?
Speaker 1:This isn't heaven. This is it's Earth. We're between heaven and hell here. But in that journey of trying to understand, as you go higher up in that power structure, you hit more and more layers of secrecy, and you can't see beyond them. And and it's not like you have people that defect.
Speaker 1:It's like you don't have some Rothschild air that comes out and does an interview on Pearce Morgan exposing the SRA inner circles. It just doesn't happen. And you have a lot of experts like, you know, Sprigmeier and Jim Mars and people that have studied it and and put together great pieces of information. But I found that talking to the survivors that were inside of those circles, people like yourself or Max Lowen or any of these different individuals, talking to them, I find, has showed me more about the hidden hands in this world than almost anything else that I've done in my own research.
Speaker 2:Yeah. There's few survivors who are so coherent and healed. You know, we have been blessed with the ability to heal from within ourselves. And that is just our by divine design, you know, that no matter what happens to us in life, we're divinely protected to be able to heal and free that our life's purpose to be able to move forward. The strength of the human spirit is our saving grace.
Speaker 2:We know the the final victory is already won and will be won and continues to be won, and yet people have been so distracted from that reality for a long time. Mental health definitely adding to the difficulty in healing from trauma by by strategic manipulation of information in the education system. I was very thrilled to see that in the MKUltra hearings that that happened on June June thirtieth that representative Luna was was conducting. They brought up Jolly West. You know, Jolly West is the head of psychiatry at was the head of psychiatry at UCLA.
Speaker 2:He was also MKUltra, notorious MKUltra doctor. And it's no wonder that our mental health community has been infiltrated to the degree that it has to perpetuate a victim mentality rather than allowing for the cure to occur, you know, and ultimately, that's our birthright information that we're able to heal from within ourselves. There's no money to be made with that. So, you know, the whole education system has taken people a completely different direction in mental health. When you look at people like Doctor.
Speaker 2:Yuan Cameron, another MKUltra doctor, and Jollian West influencing the mental health community, it's no wonder that people have been taken so far from the reality that is within us all to heal, and that there are so few survivors who are able to actually give voice to their experience in a comprehensive manner.
Speaker 1:What's it's something well, I'll pull up just quickly, we'll jump back to this. This is actually this is on the committee oversight committee website here showing this is the what you referenced, right? So just on June 30, they had a hearing called the Mind Control and Uncovering the Truth of the CIA's MKUltra Project. And this is really it's really significant to finally have them admitting this. Now, it doesn't mean that they're gonna do something about it, but I think that one of the keys is just getting this out there in a way that it's acceptable.
Speaker 1:So now people that aren't familiar with this or they think it's a conspiracy, they're not just gonna brush it off. You can say, look, they just had a hearing on the oversight committee, committee discussing this. But one thing I wanted to just, you know, kind of ask you, and something you said kind of spawned this question for me is, you know, if you look at it's like, okay, you try to understand why do they have this MKUltra program, right, as as a question, a fundamental question. You could say that, okay, so maybe it's part of it is developing these very, very highly valuable assets that can do can be deployed. Right?
Speaker 1:Whether they're spies, blackmail, honeypot, assassins, etcetera. But it's also something where if you look at say they wanted to bring a certain product to the market, you have your test case, you have your group of people you're testing it on, You're refining it before you then introduce your product to the market. Right? This is something that happens every day in in in companies that are doing things. Right?
Speaker 1:But if you look at this, am I correct in understanding that a big part of the MKUltra program and the scientific research and energy behind it is so that they can understand so much how to break the human brain so they can then take those techniques and apply them in more subtle ways to the general population. Right? Is that would you agree with that assessment?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And this information was brought into The US through Project Paperclip in the wake of World War two. So it's been around a long time, and the 1947 National Security Act went into place to cover it up. The CIA was formed the same year to carry it out. So they were already past the experimental stages.
Speaker 2:It had already been found in Hitler, Himmler research that the components for the scientific components for mind control are trauma. That's the basis of it, fear, and it causes the conscious mind to freeze in fright. They wanna shut neuron pathways in the brain down because if our brains aren't firing properly, if we aren't using our brilliant minds, then we're easily led, highly suggestible, and manipulatable. And ultimately, that was the goal was to create a compliant society. So all that had already been learned by the time that we had project paper clip.
Speaker 2:And the other components are sleep, food, and water deprivation. Look how long that's been going on. You know, people work in nine to five, five to nine to put food on the table, bioengineered, genetically altered to starve our brains. The water contaminated with fluoride and who knows what other chemicals, and to starve our brains. You know, all of this has made compliant society.
Speaker 2:And it also been found in Hitler, Himmler research all the way back then when they were still experimenting and researching that after three generations, any knowledge base, abuse base, or belief system becomes autogenic in the brain. It's genetically passed down. So we're passing down the compliance. We're passing down the the pedophile agenda, which since Hitler Himmler research had found there's no trauma more horrific on the human mind, the sexual abuse of a child prior to age five while the brain is still forming because it creates compliance for a lifetime. We understand that the pedophile agenda is a mind control agenda, but it's been conditioned for generations so that we're at a point now where the child sex trafficking that I was born into 1957 in Muskegon, Michigan that thrust me into the CIA's MKUltra mind control project, that child sex trafficking has become one of the most lucrative businesses on the planet.
Speaker 2:So the pervasiveness has already happened. The conditioning of society has already happened. And they've already moved into full on MKUltra manipulation of humanity intended to cause us to de evolve, to become compliant, and enslaved to their agenda.
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Speaker 1:And and that's ultimately, I think, what you start to get to as you go down this rabbit hole is that they want a lot of us just dead, right? There's a very overt depopulation agenda. And, but the ones that remain, they want to be, they want to have a subservient, right? And and this is it's it's the desire for power that's as old as mankind. I mean, it's it's since the dawn of time, there has been this desire of power, not for all men, but for men that get corrupted and they want more power, they want more control.
Speaker 1:And they've looked at ways of doing it, whether it's through a communist regime, whether it's through an oppressive king and a monarch, or whether it's through even on a small scale, someone who becomes a serial killer that kills people and kidnaps people, and that's how he exerts his control. And so, you can see that that is part of this end goal, to have people you kind of like, I always can it's, it was Brave New World, right? Where everyone's on SOMA, everyone's always orgy porgy, even the kids are doing orgy porgy. And yet, this entire society is very compliant, similar to the society in 1984, right? George Orwell.
Speaker 1:And which is funny because we, you know, we read these books in school growing up, right? And so, now you're looking around saying, my goodness, what's it's kind of playing out. And so, it makes sense that figuring out the ways of controlling the population would be so central. If you look at, and again, my understanding of looking from the outside in and into the MKUltra, into the different experiments, a large part of it is done through the use of drugs, through psychiatric drugs, then merging into that sexualization, violence, you know, these kind of different aspects. And so, like, if you look at just a lot of the average young children today, a large portion are very confused sexually, A very large portion of them are on some form of psychiatric medicine, whether it's SSRIs or things for ADHD, depression.
Speaker 1:And so you can see that they're creating these shells of humans that will just go along with whatever they say.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Follow the money and so much of it goes right into big pharma. And right at the top of this whole manipulation, the LSD experiments from what I I understood and so early on had failed because they've they found that they could use it to enhance trauma, but they could not make any mind control programming stick. It ended up opening neuron pathways in the brain rather than compartmentalizing it and shutting them down like they wanted. So they refined it into pharmaceuticals and what I used to refer to as CIA designer drugs where they were being used very deliberately to shut down those neuron pathways and make people compliant.
Speaker 2:They have way perfected that now, you know, and big pharma is just actively involved in that, not only in mental health, but the education system and everything else. So, you know, we got to consider that is a giant hindrance to humanity. We have been made perfect. We don't need that. You know, I mean, we've just got so much resiliency of body, mind, and spirit.
Speaker 2:But they're looking for ways to be able to control us. Having been used on a White House Pentagon level and been among these global perpetrators, you know, I've mentioned before they are not like us and do not like us. They're a very low vibration, dark negative energy force. They feed off of low vibration, and they need to keep us at a low vibration. So that's the only way they can control us.
Speaker 2:Their greatest fear is the strength of the human spirit and the infinite power of love because that's high vibration. They can't even reach it. That would be like darkness creeping in on light. It can't happen. It doesn't work that way, and they know it.
Speaker 2:So the only thing they can do is to use mind control trauma to shut down the neuron pathways so that we can't think to go within and align with the divine to gather our strength of the human spirit and infinite power of love, to remember who we are and why we're here, live our life's purpose, and realize that we have been born and blessed with the victory all along. You know, they keep us distracted from that. That's what mind control is all about. In that regard, it is a spiritual warfare. It's one that we've already won, but but people have forgotten just by the this this mind control.
Speaker 2:It's ultimately the truth that makes us free, and we need to get this truth out there. It's imperative that people understand it so they have a defense against it. Knowledge is our defense against mind control because it is the National Security Act was put in place to keep it secret, and all these secret societies and secret meetings and and they they all sprung up because secrecy is the only way they can operate in the dark. You know, when we shine our light, we expose what's going on in their darkness. This great awakening has reached a point now where we're seeing a lot of what's going on in the dark.
Speaker 2:But we need to shine, you know, brighter and eradicate the darkness once and for all because they're they're counting on us to align with artificial intelligence, and they need to dumb us down to do that. They just want to keep us at that low vibration level that they are because they know that when we have our strength of spirit, we have wisdom. Wisdom out thinks they're criminal minds and artificial intelligence every time. We've got it all. But we've got to use our brains and keep them firing properly in in order to claim that victory.
Speaker 2:That's what they fear, and they're seeing that we're waking up to that reality and using our brains and sharing truth that empowers people to take effective action against them.
Speaker 1:And and I think that while the process of understanding these these power structures, you know, that dark night of the soul, to understand how difficult and how much evil there is, it can be overwhelming, and you can work yourself into a hole in thinking it's everywhere. They control everything, there's no hope. But on the flip side, I think that whether or not I I wouldn't call a lot of these these kind of more powerful families, but I wouldn't call them atheists, because I think that they they do believe in higher powers. It's just that they're worshiping these dark higher powers. Now, whether they think they're the right ones or not, I don't know, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1:But I think though that they, in that position, they fundamentally have a disdain or a disbelief or whatever it is towards God, towards this divine Creator that created us and gave us this spark of life in this soul, that put this soul that knows how many hairs are on our head. Right? And so, I think that if you look like that, or if you say, you listen to, say, Yuval Noah Harari, right, he's talking about, you know, he kinda talks about us, like, just these these meat sacks that they can program and that were so simple and that he mocks God with their technology. But they, like, they have so little understanding of how profound the human body is. They can't even come close to creating a human brain.
Speaker 1:A brain that can regulate, that can create, that can take a single two single cells and create this human being with with the ability to have creativity and love and courage. And, you know, they they don't understand any of this, yet they think that they're playing God. But I also think that that's actually their weakness, is because
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:It's like, you know, go go back to Sun Tzu, the art of war. Know yourself, but know your enemy. And I feel like that they've just looked at us as just these meat sacks instead of looking at us as being God's children. And and we've got him behind us. Right?
Speaker 1:It's like it's like we've got a it's like we're to battle with muskets, they think that they're gonna win because they've got cannons, and we've got a nuclear bomb that we're gonna drop on them. That's this right there. And I think that's one of the things, and that's what it does give me, a lot of hope because you mentioned this great awakening, and you can see that there's a lot of people that even though there's these these heavy agendas, they're rejecting it. And they're trying to go back to this tradition and go back to being human again. And it's it's it's very powerful.
Speaker 2:It is. And I see it happening on a global scale because, especially after the MKUltra hearings, I'm I'm hearing from people all over the world. It it it gave it gave a a lot of insight into this dark agenda, the roots of it, and how long it's been going on. And it just is like that, you know, slow boil of the frog. It's happened so gradually that people didn't notice.
Speaker 2:But right now, it is at a rolling boil and people are hopping mad about it, and, you know, and they're wanting to know, alright, what can we do at at this point? And ultimately, it's to go within and realize our victory to remember that this is an amazing time to be alive and start living our life's purpose. So it's like, you know, I I was thinking how these crimes against humanity have gone on my whole life, the crimes against children. It's it's also so unthinkable what they're capable of doing. They aren't like us, and they don't think like us, and they don't consider the strength of the human spirit because it's too vast for them to even grasp.
Speaker 2:You know? So these crimes against humanity that they're doing are actually crimes against God. They're crimes against the divine. They're crimes against the human spirit, and they're that is not gonna stand. You know, that is our victory.
Speaker 2:That is where they they make the biggest mistake. They think they're so smart, but they're not. They're really stupid, flat, linear thinkers. They always underestimate us. They underestimate everything and their arrogance is going to be their downfall.
Speaker 2:They're just, you know, they make so many mistakes. It's like when they did mind control masks as a virus, you know, when that was unleashed on the global population and and we saw trauma after trauma and they mask this up to limit oxygen to the brain necessary for critical analysis free thought, depersonalize the children, caused identity disorder that they redefined as a gender disorder so that they could move into their next phase of the pedophile mind control agenda, which is a depopulation agenda, the transgender movement. You know? So they were they were moving into this fast as they could on on humanity. They use media's repetitive narrative, you know, mask up, social distance, get the injection.
Speaker 2:That's the most basic form of mind control is repetition. It affects the subconscious mind. They did all that, but they told us to shelter at home. They want to shut down neuron pathways for mind control. That's how mind control works.
Speaker 2:When they told us to shelter at home, they broke everyone's routine pattern. If you break everyone's routine pattern, that opens neuron pathways in the brain because they have to think differently. And so they completely defeated their own purpose with that one little mistake. But they always do that. They're stupid.
Speaker 1:That's such an interesting point. And I hadn't thought about that because you're right that when you have a daily habit, like anything, it's it's, you know, if if every day for the last couple of years, you drove to the same office 20 miles away, I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of days where you drive there, and you wouldn't even think about the fact that you had to turn right on this road and left on that road. It becomes automatic. Right? So you're daydreaming about something else and working over work problems, and your body's just doing it already because it becomes this it's like a well traveled road.
Speaker 1:It's not some, you know, know, kind of trail through the bush where you have to hack your way through it. It's a highway. Right? It's it's a neurological highway that you've just traveled so many times. It's now got it's paved, it's so smooth.
Speaker 1:But I didn't think about that because, you know, a lot of people that I talk to, whenever I get a chance to talk to people, especially in person, if I'm doing, say a reawaken event, or if I just meet someone at the supermarket, say, Hey, I met in America. Right? I'll have these conversations with them, which I always enjoy. A lot of times I'll ask, you know, what was it for you? Right?
Speaker 1:What was it that really woke you up? And for many, it's 09:11, it's different events, but the most common answer is it was COVID. And and you're right though, because when someone's in that same habit of every day, put their kids out to school, they go to work, all that every day, it's consistent, but all of a sudden they're sitting there, their kids are at home, they can't go to work, there's they're they're it kind of scrambles them, right? So it's all that highway is no longer being traveled anymore, so they have to develop new highways. And so they're figuring things out, but then they say, Wait, that doesn't make sense, and that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:Now, some people, of course, they went along with it, and they just kinda, you know, kinda lockstep where where you're following just as well as they were before, if not more. But I think for a lot of people, that was what then caused them to say, hey. Something's not right. Why is this government that I trusted? Why are they locking down the local business yet the Walmart is open?
Speaker 1:Why is it at a restaurant I have to wear a mask when I'm standing, yet if I sit down, the virus won't spread if I'm eating, So I take my mask off. Right? It's kinda like an IQ test, right, to see. Yeah. I think for so many people though, it that's what really opened them up.
Speaker 2:It is. And then the residual I mean, afterwards, seeing what happened to the children as a result of wearing those masks and sitting behind plexiglass in in school, you know, and and not being able to hug grandma and all the the the disturbances that it created in their own development. Parents were noticing that. And then the the very next year, they're they're in the same school stuffing dollars and tranny panties. You know, what what has happened here?
Speaker 2:What have we done to the kids? It really messed them up. And we're seeing the residual of that. Then we're also seeing people who got the injection and the adverse effects of that and people who died. The one, you know, people are grieving and feeling a horrific guilt over what has happened.
Speaker 2:And, you know, it's like in my healing process when when I was healing from from mind control and remembering what I'd what I'd been forced to do, I told Mark my love I told him I can't live with myself after what I was what what I did under mind control. And he said, you're not responsible for what you're programmed to do under mind control. Your abusers are, and they need to be held accountable for their action. But now that you're aware, you are responsible for all your actions going forward. So I was like, oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I'm gonna just make sure everything I do going forward is true to soul, in harmony with life's purpose, and out of absolute love. Because love is the most powerful force in the universe anyway. And that is how I have lived every breath and every moment since then. And if humanity understood fully the magnitude of that mind control and realized that they were programmed to do that and that their abusers need to be held accountable for that.
Speaker 2:The programmers, the media, all of them need to be held accountable and that they are responsible going forward. Well, I think people are realizing that because they've rolled out that same thing saying, okay, here's the next wave of terror. Get your vaccine. And people are saying no way. They're not doing it.
Speaker 2:They're not complying anymore. So there there is this evolutionary process that's happening. We're in a mental and spiritual evolution, and I really think COVID was a pivotal point in in taking people to the next level and understanding. But they're still asking questions, understand more, wanting to understand how far reaching MKUltra is, how it was deliberately used on the global population. You know, these are things that people are asking questions about.
Speaker 2:Their questions have become so good at this point and wanting to know how they can fully heal, how they can help their children. You know, and I've been so busy being able to share that information healing and how we can all heal from what's happened to make sure that this doesn't happen anymore. It's gonna take more than an act of Congress to stop MKUltra mind control. It's reached into so many aspects of society. It's going to take a global great awakening, and it's happening.
Speaker 2:People are waking up. It's up to each and every one of us to take personal responsibility now going forward for our actions. And what an exciting time to be alive.
Speaker 1:It is. And I'm glad you mentioned that story with you and Mark because I know that he he helped pull you out of this. And I think that that's one of the keys, but I think because he showed you love, but I also think that he showed you compassion. Right? Because I think that, like, to me, compassion is such a profound concept.
Speaker 1:It is love, but it's also, it's empathy. It's all these things that are part of it. I think it's a very, very powerful tool. Because he looked at you and he said, that, you didn't know what you were doing, right? That wasn't And so, I think it's really important because I think that if you look at all the hatred that still exists in our society, even the, you know, the people on the the conservatives hating the people that are the trans, you know I mean?
Speaker 1:And there's, of course, it's like, yeah, you're coming into my school and teaching my kids something that's gonna corrupt them, I'm gonna stop you, right, with whatever force it to do that. But I think though that the key is knowing that there's a large part of this of the global population that is still under the MKUltra trance. They're still under the mind control. They're still drugged up. They're still watching the state run propaganda.
Speaker 1:They're still following the social media algorithm that's fueling the division. But it's like, if you think about, like, even looking at that concept, right, when Jesus was on the cross, he said, you know, he said, Father, forgive them for they do not know what they're doing. Right? And that like, if if there's one lesson in this, like, that is so profound. If we can just look at the the people, whether it's you know, again, obviously, if people are committing evil acts, we must protect our children.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying that we allow that. No, there's a reason for the millstones around the neck, right? But we can say, Look, for a lot of people, they're just, they're still under this spell. And I think that if we can bring that energy into it, where it's like, Father, forgive them. They do not know what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Right? I think oftentimes that's the energy and that's the feeling that gets that person to say, Oh, wow, like what happened? You know, you came to me and you embraced me instead of calling me a weirdo and Right? Because I think a lot of people that end up doing those things, they've got their own childhood traumas. I think a lot of people that end up, you know, joining those communities are people that were abused as children, and they're confused because the normal male female healthy relationship aspect of, that you should have growing up and having a loving mother and a loving father, a lot of them don't have that.
Speaker 1:If their father was the abuser, how does that change their trajectory in their relationships? But I think that going back to that, just having compassion and realizing that it's, that's the way that we fight this, is that we have to rise up together, but not through violence, but through love and compassion and virtue. And I think that's the antidote. That's how we fight.
Speaker 2:It is. It is. And we like we need to break that, that genetic chain and realize that if that was our nature to be compliant that way, if it was our nature to allow children to be sexualized to the degree that's happening right now with the child sex trafficking harvesting network being the most lucrative business on the planet. How did we get to that point? Mind control.
Speaker 2:They don't use mind control on those who have a natural propensity for it. Those who are low vibration already that feed off a low vibration, that's their genetic lineage or whatever. They're not like us. Like I said, there's something evil. And that's the reason for the millstones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You know, they don't belong here. They are literally feeding off our children, and we've got to wake up to that reality and realize that we've gotten to this point because of mind control and have compassion for each other in this process of waking up. And that compassion comes from those who are awake. Because like I've said for years now, my experience in MKUltra taught me that without free thought, there's no free will.
Speaker 2:Without free will, we lose soul expression. If we don't have our soul expression, we lose discernment of truth, compassion for each other, and our ability to align with the divine, the strength of the human spirit to live our life's purpose. Our whole purpose in living is disrupted through mind control. It inhibits our ability to live the love we are, to have compassion for each other. So we have to reclaim our own free thought first, and then we're able to naturally have that compassion to reach out and help others.
Speaker 2:We can't wake up for other people. We can't holler at them to wake up. It's going to be their own path because the line between waking up for mind control and a spiritual realization and and alignment is a personal journey. And it's one that we can all share with each other as we wake up. It's like we can shine our light so bright that it lights the path for them, but we can't ignite their light for them.
Speaker 2:They have to do it themselves.
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Speaker 1:All the links and information are in the description below. In your own journey of breaking away from just the pain and the trauma and the control of your childhood and being sold into the CIA's MCAltra program at a very young age from your own father who was abusing you and who then traded you off after he got caught in exchange for his own success and his own immunity towards this. What, what would you say is are some applicable lessons that you've learned that can be applied to the general population? Because if you can walk out of that dark of a control system with that much trauma and abuse and that much pain, if you can walk out of that and come out on the other side with a hope and with a light inside of you and with the desire to heal humanity, then it's almost like anybody can. I mean, it doesn't matter, know, say you had a rough childhood and you got picked on in school and they put you on some sort of benzodiazepine because you were depressed and that kind of led to some other things, we can come we can walk out of that, right?
Speaker 1:And so what are some lessons that you learned in your own journey, right? Whether it's journaling or anything, what are some things that you actually had to learn to do to heal yourself that you think that would be useful tools for anybody in this world that feels just confused and that it's suffering and feels divided? How would you how would you kind of guide them?
Speaker 2:I I think of the the first realization that is so profound for me is knowing these perpetrators feeding off of low vibration, feeding off of fear and negativity and misery, and that whole woe is me victim mentality and everything. That's a low vibration, and that's what they want. They wanna keep you there. So when we have the realization that we've been blessed with this resiliency, that's its own celebration. To live the love we are is such a high vibration.
Speaker 2:It's such a light path forward that it's unreachable by them. We have no need to fear. We have the victory within us, and that is such a celebration of life every day, and it makes it much easier to move forward in the healing process in light of love. Love is the greatest healer, and it's the base core energy of our being. So, you know, there's our victory right there.
Speaker 2:That that part is really important. I think it's important too. I've got a healing trilogy out now, the Time to Heal. The healing methods that Mark taught me, it's birthright information on healing he found buried under national security that he couldn't release, but I could release it because I'm not bound by laws this edition. And it was my experience to heal with it.
Speaker 2:It's just simple. You can see it's a thin little workbook, and and it's just a reminder to all of us that we have this ability to heal from within ourselves, to write out memory that activates the logic critical analysis part of the brain. By moving a pen, we open neuron pathways in our brain. That's one way that we can use for healing right there. And if we get that back in the school system, we stop the indoctrination of children.
Speaker 2:They'll know how to think again instead of being programmed what to think. It's a way of of opening those neuron pathways. Other things we can do is get away from our devices, get away from the intrusion of the frequencies of television and computers and all that. Get out in nature and listen to nature again. Get our feet in the earth, our hands in the earth, grow a garden, watch the miracle of that growing, and that it's so healing to be able to do that.
Speaker 2:Pet your dog and go communicate with the horse. Animals have so much sense that they can bring us back to our senses. When we're back to our senses and use that part of our brain, we realize that we know who's good and who's bad. We have an ability for rising above the imposed negativity that actually calms the adrenal system and calms our conditioning to fear and trauma. It gives us an ability to rise above all that.
Speaker 2:So nature is our nature, and animals can teach us so much. Mine's teaching me right now. I don't know if you can hear him in the background.
Speaker 1:Oh, I do. Yeah. And that's what, you know, that's what we've done, right? So, I mean, six and a half years ago, I was living in a high rise in New York City. And now we're out in the country, we've got, we're surrounded by forests, we've got animals, where there's a local woman that rescues cats, and so we'll meet her at the local tractor supply, and we'll get little new kittens here and there, so have cats running around.
Speaker 1:We have friends that come over, and some of them have their own struggles, and they'll pick up this little cat, and they're just like, Oh, that just it just changes something in them, but also spending time in nature. And this is something that I just have gotten so much joy out of, and it's so important. I was telling you that I was, I just finished building like I said, you don't really finish it because I'm always refining it, but I build a waterfall. And this was such a powerful experience for me to kind of crack the earth around me into plant. And now I'll just go out sometimes at night and just sit next to it, right?
Speaker 1:Actually, I have a video of it, I'll play it for you, haven't shown yet, it's still not done, but so this is a little it's called a pondless waterfall. This is my project I just finished. Wow. Building. Right here.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's magnificent.
Speaker 1:And these are all stones from our property that I I carried in and
Speaker 2:Wow. That soothing sound.
Speaker 1:And there's our gardens over there in the back, our vegetable gardens and Yeah, so that's mean, so that was so healing for me in my own stresses of life and raising children and running a business, that was my peaceful place. Now that I have it, because I love moving water. And so, and this is, it's, it just keeps circling the same water over and over again. So, it's just a nonstop waterfall that's always running. And I, if I'm feeling a little bit just overwhelmed with life or anything, I'll just go pull a chair up and just sit out there.
Speaker 1:Just, I'll sit there for an hour sometimes in the evening and just stare and reflect on things. It's just, it's so important for us to connect. Because to me, like, that's, there's God in that, right? Like, that's, this is, is the earth that God gave us. This is the water He created, the stones that He created.
Speaker 1:And so, working with those things, as opposed to looking at screens and being indoors, that kind of pull you away from that. To me, it's it's another way of just reconnecting with God. Actually, I feel closer to God when I'm in in nature.
Speaker 2:I do too. And I I need that. Mean, nature nurtures and the the pets and the animals and everything else. So my my third book in my healing trilogy is aligned with the divine, and it's a reminder of of how nature brings us back to our own true nature and our senses and the importance of it. I live on Cherokee sacred land, and the recent tornado that that that hit, it it was so devastating that it it tore down over 38 trees including oaks and hardwoods and everything else.
Speaker 2:And oddly, all those trees, they fell from all four sides onto my house, and it was so hard. And in losing those beautiful trees. And in so many ways, it seems like they ended up putting a field of protection around the house. The house is still standing. It's devastated.
Speaker 2:The roof is a mess. But ultimately, it is still standing and it's like a miracle. No one was hurt. All that happened. Been clearing trees for a long, long time.
Speaker 2:And seeing the resiliency of nature, It's like everything is blooming. The grass is growing back just thick and more lush than ever. Everything keeps happening that way, and it's like nature is like so soothing saying, we can regenerate. And I'm looking forward to replanting, not only rebuilding devastation, but above all, my daughter and I both, we're looking forward to the replanting. And seeing your waterfall is such an inspiration because that's exactly what we have in mind here.
Speaker 2:You know, to be able to have that kind of soothing beauty brought back on this sacred land. As soon as tornado had hit, we took a walk, because we've got water, mountains, and lakes real close to where we are. We took a walk just to reground, just to see the piece. Right away, the first thing we saw was a bunch of geese with their little babies, little tiny babies. The wind didn't blow them away.
Speaker 2:The babies were all fine, and they're just swimming peacefully in that water and we're listening. It's like, yeah, we can make it through anything. There isn't anything in life that we can't make it through when we reground in the beauty of miracles that are unfolding all around us all the time.
Speaker 1:And it's also, it's really important even as to have discussions like this, because arguably, or objectively, the Survivor series was, it was dark. I mean, we went into a lot of the very, very dark and just evil things that were done to people, that were done to children. And I don't wanna shy away from that. I don't wanna pretend it doesn't exist. I wanna face it because know your enemy.
Speaker 1:I want to know what's happening.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And it's really important, but I also think that it's important to counter that with discussions and just even the train of thought that we have today, where we're looking at this and you're recognizing the darkness and you're recognizing the mechanisms of control that have been used on our society. And it helps you to make sense of why there's so much division and hatred and why suicide rates are up and, you know, why marriage, you know, rates are down, fertility's down, all these things that are happening, it's overwhelming. But then you discover that within that, there still is a path to return. Right? There's still a path to get back to where we need to be to get back to being human again.
Speaker 1:And it's through our relationships with each other, with God, with nature. It's really I found it's actually a really simple thing. It's just go back to the simple things of living. Right? It's like turn off the TV, put down the phone, close the laptop, go sit outside at night.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter if you're on a balcony in a big city, or whether you're on a ranch out in Wyoming, go spend time outside and find someone that you care about. Sit there with them and drink a coffee or whatever it is. It's getting back to these things. It's amazing how you'll find that your stress levels start lowering. And then when your stress levels lower, then you don't react in anger, you don't react in fear, you're more level headed and you can't be controlled as much.
Speaker 1:And then you start seeing through and you start realizing, oh my goodness, that's how they're doing it. They're making all these people confused. They're making them scared. They're making them angry. They're making them think they can blame the other side.
Speaker 1:You know, they're thinking that, oh, well, I'm a Republican, so I see the truth. Oh, I'm a Democrat, I see the truth. They've turned everything political. But you rise above it and you realize that the greatest threat to this evil in this world is us just loving each other and coming together and building relationships. And that's the greatest strength that we have.
Speaker 1:And there's more and more people, I think, that are seeing that and doing it, which and that's really, really encouraging.
Speaker 2:It is to me too. And I'm so happy to see this great awakening reaching this point that it has. It's like raised the whole vibrational frequency and we're seeing what has happened in that darkness. We're seeing their secrets. They're being exposed.
Speaker 2:And I remind people all the time that what we're seeing isn't new. What's new is that we're finally seeing it, and awareness is the first step towards positive necessary change. We can't rely on government to fix it for us. We can't rely on churches to fix it for us. We can't rely on anything to fix it for us.
Speaker 2:It's up to each and every one of us to realize our own purpose and start living the love we are and making that difference ourselves. The difference is made when we be that change, when we be that difference. And it's easy to be when we get out in nature and reground and remember. You know, when when we realign with the divine and see that that victory. Everywhere I go when I'm speaking out, the insights that I have into the roots of corruption are extensive and far reaching.
Speaker 2:I know where those roots are. They need to be pulled up out of that swamp so the swamp can drain. You know, they're blocking the drain. We gotta get to those roots and and and and do that with with awareness. But at the same time that the strength comes in the joy and the love and the living and the purpose of why we're really here.
Speaker 2:Information does not need to be so overwhelming. It needs to be empowering. And remembering our own victory and our strength. And then when we look around us, we realize and start seeing the magnitude of change that is occurring in light of that awareness. Truth really does make us free, and that truth is rising.
Speaker 1:I agree completely. I think it's a beautiful message to conclude with, to leave people that sense of hope. Before we sign off, I want to bring up your website one more time. It's trance-formation.com. So trance-formation.com.
Speaker 1:You have your books on here. So you have all your books listed, you mentioned a couple, you mentioned the freedom bump, bundle. So you can get the books on here. You've also got ways of contacting, you have your events, your podcast, but there's also if people want to donate, I know you have a GoFundMe to help with your, the cleanup that this tornado, which seems to me that based upon evidence, it wasn't just some random tornado, this was some sort of directed thing, which we know they have the technology for that. But if people want to help out, there's a little button here to support.
Speaker 1:There's other ways to donate and to support what you're doing. So, I think that, you know, Kathy, that your voice is very important because you're someone that has been inside the system, and you've emerged with this light and this beauty about you that's infectious, and that's a threat to them. And so I think that you you're on the front lines of this, and I think that it's it's really important that we support you. And one of the ways I'm trying to support you is to get your message out to as many people as possible. Right?
Speaker 1:And that's that's one of the ways that I'm trying to fight this is with this, this this is my kind of atomic bomb right here, this microphone in this war.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I deeply appreciate that, and I appreciate people helping out because it I'm so touched by by people's kindness, their prayers, their warmth, their compassion, their sharing. It's it's it's been beautiful to see. I've I'm not I'm not used to having to ask people for help, but I needed it this time. Above all, I was working on my MKUltra documents that had been requested.
Speaker 2:And I was compiling that information for about five hours when slam bam out of the blue, literally out of the blue that tornado hit. And whether, you know, whether or not it was whether, you know, whatever it was, it's not going to stop me. It didn't shut me up. And those documents have been submitted where they were requested. And I'm very pleased with the progress going forward.
Speaker 2:I'm never going to stop. Thank you for giving me voice today and proving, you know, once again, I'm not going to shut up. There's too much truth to be told. There's too much light to be shed. And there's there's too many people that are asking all the right questions and needing these answers.
Speaker 2:So, you know, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:You're welcome. Yeah. It's it's an amazing time to be alive. And I think I think that we're gonna see a lot in the coming years. We're gonna see some pretty powerful transformations, and not necessarily it's gonna be easy, but it's like birthing pains, right?
Speaker 1:You have this beautiful life that emerges amidst all the pain. So, I think that that's where we're at. And thank you, Cathy, for giving us your time today and thank you for doing what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Thank you.