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Every Tuesday on the CosmoFactory podcast: Discover the latest innovations along the cosmetics and personal care supply chain. Hear thought-provoking conversations with top beauty industry experts from around the world. Learn about next-level solutions and find inspiration to turn your own ideas into industry-changing innovations.
A PRODUCTION OF Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna
CosmoFactory is the first podcast from Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna—the most important beauty trade show in the world. Dedicated to all sectors of the industry, Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna welcomes over 250,000 visitors from 150 countries and regions and nearly 3,000 exhibitors to Bologna, Italy, each year. It’s where our diverse and international industry comes together to build business relationships and to discover the best brands and newest innovations across consumer beauty, professional beauty, and the entire supply chain. The trade show includes a robust program of exclusive educational content, featuring executives and key opinion leaders from every sector of the cosmetics, fragrance, and personal care industry. Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna is the most important event of the Cosmoprof international network, with exhibitions in Asia (Hong Kong), the US (Las Vegas and Miami), India (Mumbai) and Thailand (Bangkok). Thanks to its global exhibitions Cosmoprof connects a community of more than 500,000 beauty stakeholders and 10,000 companies from 190 countries and regions. Learn more today at Cosmoprof.com
CosmoFactory was co-developed in collaboration with supply-side expert Deanna Utroske, Host of the CosmoFactory podcast and Editor of the Beauty Insights newsletter.
Deanna: [00:00:00] This episode is about the ethical sourcing of botanical ingredients. It's about plant science. Cellular extraction technology and harvesting rainwater, and it's about ingredient solutions for cosmetics, personal care, wellness, and nutraceutical applications. Today here on the Cosmo Factory Podcast, I am joined by Lisa Carroll, CEO of native extracts.
Lisa, welcome to Cosmo Factory.
Lisa: Hi. Thanks for having [00:01:00] me. Excited to be here.
Deanna: Yeah. No, you're welcome. I, I'm pleased to be speaking with you. I'm, I'm glad you are here. Um, now Native extracts, the company you lead is based in Australia, which as we all know, is a single country continent. And as I've suggested in the intro to this episode, you specialize in natural and botanical cosmetic ingredients.
So I'd love for you to start us off by talking about what regions or geographies. Of the Australian continent, you are sourcing botanical materials from.
Lisa: Yes, it. It's a, a mega diversity of untapped, uh, biological resources, um, or botanical resources. Um, and we source our ingredients from all over this massive country, um, you know, from east to west coast, from north to South Tasmania, of course as well. Um, we even have brands wanting just. Um, very specific regional, um, botanicals, um, which is interesting too.
For example, [00:02:00] we've got brands that just focus on species that we source from Tasmania, whether they're Australian natives or even non-natives like our Tasmanian lavender. Um, but it's such a diverse mega, um, diversity here in Australia. And what's really interesting is that until we started, um, just over a decade ago, there wasn't any commercial full plant profiles on Australian native.
Which I found really interesting given that on this massive continent, we've got one, you know, the oldest living culture that's been sustained by these botanicals and there was really no data on it. Um, so for us that was a huge, exciting discovery journey. Um, and something that we wanted to share with everyone.
We didn't wanna lock this knowledge up. We wanted to make sure that we could really expand on the science, understanding the plant profiles, and then sharing it for others to further invade.
Deanna: Yeah. And you've suggested there that a lot of the species you work with are native, but it sounds [00:03:00] like some may have been introduced as well. Can you comment on is, is your approach a mix to wild harvesting and cultivated plants or.
Lisa: Um, certainly in the beginning. I think that's a really good question because certainly in the beginning when we started there was very little, um, established what I would call crops. Status of a lot of the Australian natives because there really was only the food industry at the time that was sort of jumping in from time to time.
From a bush food perspective. I really, um, feel that that bush food kind of, uh, terminology really limits. The value of our botanical species and just, um, you know, really, I guess really pointed to taste and, and color and all that sort of thing where, where we we're really missing what the ontology or the plant profiles were and what those species had to offer.
So from Australia's perspective, we have. You know, a massive library of [00:04:00] Australian botanicals, um, that are native, um, and that aren't grown anywhere else in the world. Um, so initially we would start with wild harvesting, um, but very quickly realize that to grow our business and to assure, um, you know, a sustainable or reliable supply chain of botanicals to service the extract industry and our customers, that we really had to look beyond wild harvesting into commercial crop status.
So working with some of our growers, indigenous and non-indigenous, um, that, that we're moving into that space. Um, I think a really big thing for us is to avoid wild harvesting because we wanna make sure that we are not impacting the, the ecosystem, the natural ecosystem. Um, and. You know, also looking at the practices of, um, of cropping versus wild harvesting, introducing, you know, really exciting things like waterwise concepts, like, you know, um, agritech [00:05:00] innovations in aquaponics and desert areas and that sort of thing.
So yeah, I think today wild harvesting is something that we would avoid as much as possible.
Deanna: Interesting. Thank you. You know, and I. I have sort of maybe most of the library of episodes in my head, and, and something you said a moment ago reminded me of, of an episode I did, um, not long ago, just this past October when I, I spoke with Linda Dopa about her approach to ingredient sourcing in co devo.
One of the things she talked about was the value that she places on, and I'm paraphrasing her remarks here, but hundreds of years of wisdom. That's behind regional skincare ingredients. Um, and Lisa, you and I had a conversation the other day and you spoke about ancient wisdom, um, that, that I think you're borrowing as well from some of your sourcing partners.
I'm wondering if you can comment on how indigenous people's knowledge relates to the contemporary beauty ingredients business.
Lisa: I, [00:06:00] um, yeah, sure. I think, I think it's a really important topic. Um, and I think it's something to, as, as far as native extracts is concerned, we're all about the science. We're all about going into the cell of unique botanicals as well as traditional botanicals. We've got over 400 ingredients. Um, some of those non-natives are grown in Australia as well.
When we are talking about ancient wisdom, it's we, I really acknowledge and respect the wisdom that our First Nation people have here in Australia. As far as the botanicals go. It's something that is, you know, very much their cultural ip, their historical use. I. That's not something that we want to, um, leverage or get involved in, but what we can do is provide the commercial ingredients with the ontology, the plant profiles, and the science to allow them to have access to this.[00:07:00]
This new knowledge and relate it to their cultural IP and their historical use IP to, um, to, to support, um, you know, what their, their ancient wisdom is. I don't think that it's something, um, outside of First Nation people that we should be leveraging. That's, that's their space.
Deanna: Mm.
Lisa: But we, we certainly, um, really love working with growers and really enjoy connecting growers to more knowledge, particularly in a commercial space, that allow them to then go beyond their crops and explore new markets, whether it's the beauty industry for topical applications, whether it's.
Pharmaceutical, you know, developing, um, you know, pharmaceutical, um, applications based on historical knowledge or the nutraceutical space. So we see ourselves as, um, you know, ethical partners that can work with growers to, you know, expand where they want to go with their, with their knowledge and their [00:08:00] crops.
Deanna: Yeah. Excellent, excellent. And you mentioned there that you work with some 400 plant extracts and, and I know that your team uses an ingredient extraction process that requires water. I'm hoping you'll talk with us about how that water is sourced.
Lisa: Yeah. Um, when we, when I created this company, um, you know. Started thinking about it back in 2012. It was really in response to demand where we were asked to create, um, you know, did we, did we have access to extracts that delivered a plant profile? And that was a really exciting moment for me because when you get to the opportunity to create a company, you get to create it the way you'd like.
It to be, and it's always been in our philosophy from day one that we wanted to create an eco responsible approach to ingredient solutions. Um, and so looking at our footprint, at the size [00:09:00] of our, our factory, the energy that we use, we have solar panels, but most importantly because we do a lot of, uh, water and glycerin or ethanol and water extractions with our cellular extraction process.
Um, we wanted to look at how we use the water and looking at, you know, there's a, a lot of talk about water today. Um, you know, water wise, um, formulations is really, really important. We're seeing a lot of waterless formulations as well. As a result, it's not. SA surprise to most of us globally that we are facing a water scarcity issue.
Um, you know, across the world it's probably harder for Australia to to see it because we are surrounded by water and we have such abundance of it. So for us, with our extraction process, the water we use is rain harvest it. And surprisingly, when we test it against the public supply, it's actually cleaner.
And less, um, you know, it, it, [00:10:00] it's, um, has a less of an impact on our filtration system as well as a result. So that's just one of the aspects that we have in our eco responsible manufacturing charter.
Deanna: Yeah. No, I appreciate you sharing that. And as you suggested, there's so much. On with water. I've certainly been presenting on it, writing on it, paying attention to it carefully. And this idea of harvesting rainwater, um, I can't imagine it's perfectly unique to your company, but it doesn't come up very often.
So I, I'm curious if, if you have any notes about when it might make sense for a company to consider harvesting rainwater, who's, who does this, you know, who's this a fit for?
Lisa: Yeah, there, there. Look, there's, there are other companies, um, that I know of in Australia, contract manufacturers, um, that are rain harvest. Look at from a business perspective, it, it makes a lot of sense as well as an ethical perspective. Um, you know, we go through tons of water a week, tons and tons of water.
Um, and we are fortunate to be in a subtropical region [00:11:00] where there is so much water and rainfall. Um, so for companies that want to look at being more resource responsible, it will come down to, do they have. The space, you know, um, in their facility to actually manage this sort of level of harvesting. Um, does a company, um, you know, operate in a high rainfall area?
These are, you know, important considerations. Can't, can't just put a tank out and crush your fingers. You know, we want, we want a reliable. Source of it. So, so to date, we haven't had to switch over to the public supply yet, um, which is great. And we have an abundance of water, as everyone's probably heard about the floods that we've had in our region in Australia over the, you know, a couple of years ago.
Um, so yeah, really, really working with the resources that you have in the region that you are operating as a business, I think, um, makes a lot of sense.
Deanna: Yeah.
Lisa: for any business we've got, [00:12:00] all of us have a part to play, um, in, you know, looking at our resource responsible strategies, um, and collectively we can then make a change.
I think.
Deanna: yeah. No, I, I agree. Um, I don't wanna get into, you know, too much of the nuance of, of every extraction technology going on in the industry. Um. You've mentioned that yours is called cellular extraction. I'm, I'm hoping just briefly you can explain that extraction platform to us, and I'm wondering you, do you use the same process for every plant that you work with?
Is cellular extraction the same regardless of the botanical material? You start with?
Lisa: Yeah, the, the, the birth of cellular extraction, we actually even created the, you know, we had to create a name for it so that people could understand. 'cause everyone was like, what is it? What is it? And it's really exciting, you know, a, a decade on now does. See that it's actually been, um, accepted, um, as a, in an [00:13:00] industry, you know, extraction process and well respected for it for us.
Um, we were having a look at the time at, at what macerated and percolated extracts were doing. Um, you know, what the plant profiles were. We really just wanted to create, uh, an honest, true to nature. Extract or ingredient, whatever was in the cell of a plant that was water soluble. We wanted to encapsulate that or harness that and deliver that in a liquid medium.
That was the extract that others then could further innovate from. Um. Where I, where I went was actually looking at how a plant moves. Its phyto compounds around using natural gradients and osmolarity, and really that's the principle behind cellular extraction. We knew we had to get in and get out fast.
To maintain the integrity of the natural molecules, but we had to do it gently. So we use high pressure, um, we use static states and we actually manipulate and create that concept [00:14:00] of, um, you know, osmolarity. And that allows us to bring everything over that's water soluble. We are looking at, you know, plant profiles and ontology where we can characterize, you know, hun hundreds.
Of, um, metabolites in a commercial extract, uh, and really pulling everything out of the cell, um, an exhausting biomass where in a process where we actually can use less biomass than past processes like maceration and percolation, and get a really wide plant profile.
Deanna: Mm-hmm. I've mentioned this, I'm, I'm sure on past episodes, but there definitely is a movement in the industry towards what we might think of as more holistic ingredients. Right. And away from, from single fractions. And the way you're describing it, you know. It suggests that there's not only more, um, almost nutrition or, or skincare benefits that can be, uh, derived from using all of the materials available, but there's also sort of an economy to it [00:15:00] as well.
It's interesting.
Lisa: Yeah. Um, we definitely looked at eco. Conscious manufacturing and I guess, you know, when you are looking at, at just the source of biomass, for example, and being able to use less biomass, um, allows us to work with, um, plants that might be at that early stage of getting to global crop status. And that sort of thing as well allows us to go and share it with, you know, the market or specific customers where they might have first access for a couple of years while the growers are are expanding, but.
When you look at our process, we actually go into the cell, we flood the cell under high pressure and, and then we transfer across the cell membrane, the semi-permeable membrane, and suspend it in that liquid medium, that extraction medium, whether it's ethanol, whether it's a GCE tract. Um, and what that's really been able to show us is.
Where [00:16:00] we think, uh, and where we know that the explosion this next decade in plant science, global research is going to be on the entourage. We've been talking about it for a long time. The cannabis space has really escalated a. The, um, understanding and benefits of working with an entourage where, you know, um, moving away from isolating and purifying a single ingredient, um, and delivering what we call a true to nature ingredient.
So I guess there's sort of a couple of different ways to look at it from a science perspective. The evolution of a botanical over millions of years through natural selection. Nature's been very clever at choosing the photo compounds It needs to sustain its survival, that support and work together in their synergistic relationships.
We wanna harness that and deliver that. It's not nature. Never isolated or purified a single compound. And what we can see is that while we might have. Some major [00:17:00] peaks, you know, um, of say Ross Marnic acid in our native river mint, um, extracts. And there might be ma minor metabolites. That's not to say that those metabolites don't have a part to play in the plant profile.
They can have a very powerful part to play in supporting, um, buffering some of those other metabolite. And this is research that really is, um, I think at a very early and very exciting stage. We saw it, um, with how we harness natural vitamin C, for example, um, in our kakadu plum extract, being able to hold this biological ascorbic acid.
And as we know, um, you know, ascorbic acid is, uh, highly unstable. It's, it's, we have a love-hate relationship with it. Um, the, its instability is also something that's really important for us as, um, far as its efficacy, as a antioxidant, for example. But how do we. How do we work with this [00:18:00] ingredient that is so highly unstable, and how is it stable in the fruit, for example?
So when we deliver the biological ascorbic acid within its entourage, we're actually able to hold it for a lot longer than if we had, um, just the, the, the actual molecule itself. Um. So yeah, that synergism with the full entourage or the full plant profile then also allows the, uh, I guess the economy of a botanical to be, um.
Relatable to so many different applications. So now we are looking at a botanical extract as nature's formulation. This, this plant profile has, you know, massive sources of polyphenols, which is so important for, for longevity from a topical as well as an ingestible perspective. Um, but we can look at what.
Particular compounds of interest in the plant profile might relate to hair care or [00:19:00] barrier function, you know, and so on.
Deanna: No, and I'm, I'm glad you've mentioned product applications there. And also, um, you mentioned the word ingestible. I know some of your ingredients do have a history of human ingestion, but so often when we talk about ingredient topics here on Cosmo factory, our minds. Um, go to skincare, body care, hair care, these, these topical products that we're also well versed in.
But we certainly know that that supplements or nutraceuticals are common now in beauty. I assume you're watching the nutraceutical sector. Do you see an opportunity here for Australian botanicals to be used in in nutraceutical or beauty supplement formulations?
Lisa: Absolutely. I think, um, when you look at the Australian botanicals and, you know, we, we get to look at, at, at a cellular level and at the. Not just the, the, the wide plant profile, but the concentrations, um, of, of these particular metabolites as well is really exciting. [00:20:00] If you think about it, um, from a, from a botanical perspective, plants that survive in the harshest environment.
Generally have the most interesting profiles, but usually concentrations as well. That's what we are finding. And so Australia's mega diversity really represents some of the toughest climates and conditions that a botanical has to survive in. So we are tapping into. You know, what that species gone through, through its natural selection over millions of years.
Um, and when we, you know, when we look at the concentrations, for example, of the vitamin C with the Kakadu plum, when we do a different process to cellular extraction, we do do multiple processes. I probably didn't answer that before, but um, yeah, depending on the plant. Depending on the plant part, um, as well.
And depending on the solubility of the compounds that we're trying to harness, we will actually use different [00:21:00] processes and protocols from a nutraceutical perspective. We've been doing work for over five years now, and we already are able to pull across 16,000 milligrams per a hundred grams of vitamin C, natural vitamin C, um, in a, in a.
Nutrient dense, full entourage. Essence. And that's, that's so exciting. We've got the industries looking for, you know, natural ingredients, but we we're, we're not wanting to move away from performance, but it also combines this concept of purpose. And I really think that's where natural ingredients, um, really has to be today.
It's gotta be on, uh, performance, but as well as as purpose. Um, and when I say purpose, like what's the impact? What's the positive impact on, on people and plants? Um, as well as, you know, um, whether it's topical or ingestible. So definitely as a system, as a human system, we need to look at solutions [00:22:00] that are holistic.
Um, there's a lot of people in the, in the skincare space that understand this and are starting to, to do, you know, in ingestible solutions. Um, if you look at collagen support, for example, I don't believe it's about taking lots of collagen. It's about looking at the compounds. That support our own bodies to, to, to make, to make collagen, um, you know, things like, you know, vitamin C is a really good example.
Um, but as far as the source of, um, phytonutrients in the Australian. Native botanical space is absolutely astounding. The things that we are finding high levels of IC acid, massive polyphenol stores, um, you know, things like, you know, your flavor and glycosides and, um, flavanoids and, you know, or, or it's, it's really an untapped market.
And for that. Ingestible [00:23:00] space that wants natural solutions. I think Australia really stands to offer the world something really powerful and really unique. So you'll see a lot more next year being released in this space.
Deanna: Oh, that's exciting. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. And Lisa, I have to say thank you too for sharing such a, a useful overview of plant extracts with us here and, and of course for being my guest today on the Cosmo Factory Podcast.
Lisa: Oh, thank you so much for having me. Really enjoyed it.