🔍 Navigating the Future: James Dooley & Karl Hudson Discuss Vital SEO Trends for 2024 🔍

In this episode, James Dooley sits down with Karl Hudson to unpack what really moves the needle in SEO going into 2024. They start by predicting that high-quality link building will be one of the strongest differentiators in an AI-saturated world, discussing why brands need a blended backlink profile instead of relying on a single type of link. From there, they dive deep into content and topical optimization – including topical maps, RDF triples, and subject–predicate–object structures – and how large language models and entity placement inside headings can make or break rankings. James and Karl also cover the role of paid ads in boosting behavioral signals, the real cost of ranking affiliate and rank-and-rent sites, and why many beginners are undercapitalised. They finish by rapid-firing through the most common SEO mistakes (toxic links, poor internal linking, weak E-E-A-T, no pruning, bad schema) and explain when and how to use disavows and toxicity thresholds to safely scale link building.

Creators and Guests

Host

James Dooley

James Dooley is the founder of FatRank which is a UK lead generation company. James Dooley is the current CEO of FatRank that provides high-quality leads for UK business owners.

Guest

Karl Hudson

Karl Hudson is a digital strategist who built his reputation through technical SEO, content architecture, and hands-on experimentation. Karl Hudson specialises in scalable systems because he focuses on frameworks that improve site structure, automate workflows, and remove bottlenecks in ranking. Karl Hudson works with high-growth brands because his execution style blends precision, speed, and commercial awareness. Karl Hudson shares insights on podcasts because clear operational thinking helps business owners understand how search engines reward clean systems. Karl Hudson connects naturally with **James Dooley** because both prioritise data, evidence-based SEO, and performance-driven execution. Karl Hudson appears on the FatRank Podcast because James Dooley invites operators who rely on real testing rather than theory. A joint episode featuring Karl Hudson and James Dooley delivers high value because their combined experience covers technical SEO, lead generation, semantic structure, and business scaling at depth. Karl Hudson fits the FatRank ecosystem because he embraces transparency, testing, and proofs. Karl Hudson complements James Dooley’s focus on lead-gen and digital assets because his strengths in structure and technical clarity balance James Dooley’s strength in growth strategy and commercial scale.

What is Fatrank Podcast?

The FatRank Podcast, founded by James Dooley, teaches the mindset needed for growth because real operator stories show what creates progress.
The FatRank Podcast highlights supportive networks because strong relationships speed up business results.
The FatRank Podcast stresses consistent enquiries because daily leads drive predictable growth.
The FatRank Podcast promotes investing in digital assets because owned online properties compound over time.

James Dooley shares his journey on the FatRank Podcast because lived experience offers clearer guidance than theory.
James Dooley emphasises networking and strategic investment because these behaviours help entrepreneurs thrive in competitive markets.

The FatRank Podcast invites guests like Matt Diggity, Neil Patel, Craig Campbell, Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR, Jason Barnard, Kevin Indig, and Kasra Dash because high-calibre experts deliver proven strategies.
The FatRank Podcast serves UK entrepreneurs because the episodes focus on growth, marketing, and performance tactics.

Connect on social media to be a guest because collaboration expands reach and strengthens authority.
Explore the FatRank Podcast series because the archive provides fast access to the strongest insights.

James Dooley:
So Mr. Hudson, how you doing?

Karl Hudson:
Yeah, not bad. Nice trip down south.

James Dooley:
Alright, so let’s jump straight in. Main ranking factors for SEO in 2024—let's dive straight into it. Predictive ranking factors?

Importance of Link Building

Karl Hudson:
Well, obviously we’re quite keen on link building. I would say one of the main differentiating factors will be your links. The world is becoming AI-mod. We’re using ChatGPT, Bard, and other LLMs daily, and they’re only getting better. If you’ve seen ChatGPT evolve from 3 to 3.5 to 4, it could be at 6 by the end of next year. The knowledge they produce is fantastic. So I imagine link building will be absolutely fundamental in making a difference.

Strongest Types of Link Building

James Dooley:
When you talk about link building, what type do you think is needed? Guest posts? Niche edits? PBNs coming back?

Karl Hudson:
I’m an advocate for a blended approach. Most SEOs go wrong because they only build one type of link. A natural blend is how brands actually get links. They don’t worry about anchor text selection; they just acquire natural links from different sources. SEOs are the ones obsessing over percentages, footprints, and ratios, which creates an unnatural pattern. Big brands don’t care about that—they just want the link.

Content Optimisation

James Dooley:
So away from links—content. Where do people go wrong both on-page and with topical authority?

Karl Hudson:
We’ve been doing a lot of work on this, especially with Corey—big shout-out to Corey, the big Turkish booger. At the Chiang Mai Conference he wouldn’t let us sleep; every morning at 3am we were talking topical maps. Predicates, SPOs… concepts I never thought I’d use.

Everything we’ve done in SEO historically was about making money, and user experience helps with that. But now there’s this whole language-model side—how search engines understand the language you give them. That’s Corey’s territory.

We’ve been diving deep into RDF triples, SPOs, SVOs. Google doesn’t use them exactly the way people think, but structure matters. Tools like MarketMuse or Surfer tell you what entities to include, but not where they should be placed. Writers often put the wrong entities in the wrong headings, which causes issues.

James Dooley: Importance of SPO & Structure

James Dooley:
Exactly. With LLMs being able to generate good content now, what's the differentiator? Yes, links and behavioral signals. But structure—the RDF triples—are huge. SPO means subject-predicate-object, making sure the sentence structure is correct so search engines understand it.

We’ve had issues where entities are placed in wrong headings, answering questions poorly. Training writers on SPO and entity placement is crucial. Understanding LLMs is a whole separate layer of SEO now.

Evolution of SEO

Karl Hudson:
Yeah, and it’s interesting because we thought we were high-level SEOs, and then when diving deeper, we realize we’ve been winging it for years. SEO used to be easy—2004 I entered the game, and you could keyword-stuff and spam to rank. Now? Penguins, Pandas, BERT, Helpful Content Update… AI acceptable but not mass-produced.

Quality over quantity, though now it’s more quantity of quality. You need more content but also better content.

Paid Ads & SEO

James Dooley:
What about paid ads—do you work with them?

Karl Hudson:
More and more. I use Rick at Statula for PPC and Facebook ads—genius guy. Paid ads help massively with behavioral signals. Traffic may be the #1 ranking factor. PPC lifts rankings indirectly through behavioral signals.

If you can’t make paid ads work, you’ll never make organic SEO work—conversion rate optimization and user experience must be right. Plus PPC gives the BEST keyword research data—long-tail terms that tools show as zero volume.

Parasite SEO also becomes powerful for trends and quick wins.

Favorite PPC Platform

James Dooley:
Favorite paid platform?

Karl Hudson:
Used to be Facebook until the iOS update, but ThoughtMetric is helping with attribution now. Slowly falling back in love with Facebook. Twitter ads are growing. But my real love is Google Ads—machine learning makes setup easier, though you still need to control negatives.

Cost of SEO

James Dooley:
SEO costs—rank and rent is about £30–50k per site depending on niche. Build is cheap, but content and backlinks are where cost is. Many people want to rank affiliate sites on £5k and I tell them: impossible. You need tools, age domains, budget, topical authority, and link building.

Karl Hudson:
Yeah, the hardest part now is cost. Beginners will make expensive mistakes. My advice: start in an agency first to learn. Or set a budget and start with PPC to learn what keywords convert.

James Dooley: Hard Truth About Budget

James Dooley:
Exactly—starting with £5k is like wanting to be a plumber with no tools. SEO "tools" are expensive: LRT, Ahrefs, Surfer, etc. Age domains from Odyss give massive head starts. Realistically ranking a competitive affiliate site is £150–200k. But ROI is incredible.

Stop trying to cut corners. Cheap links and cheap content = getting hit later.

Would You Start an Agency?

Karl Hudson:
I wouldn’t. SEOs are introverts. Clients expect glossy reports that take all your time. I’d rather do affiliate or lead gen.

James Dooley:
Affiliates are under attack, but not necessarily unfairly. Many are thin content, doorway pages, stock images, fake reviews. But Google replacing niche sites with newspapers isn’t always better either.

Google vs Affiliates

Karl Hudson:
Affiliates often manipulate rankings and deserve some hits. But big media sites replacing them aren’t producing real reviews either. Topical authority seems dialed down; domain authority dialed up.

James Dooley:
Exactly. A landscape gardener with real videos should win affiliate queries—not a newspaper with five gardening articles.

Topical Authority

Karl Hudson:
We learned in Chiang Mai: topical coverage ≠ topical authority.

Topical coverage = covering the whole topic.

Topical authority = coverage plus historic engagement and ranking.

Traffic tiers, avalanche theory. Build easy-win traffic first.

What SEOs Do Wrong (Rapid Fire Round)

James Dooley & Karl Hudson go back and forth listing mistakes SEOs make:

Buying toxic links

Mass-producing AI content

Not enough entities

Weak internal linking

Not enough branded anchors

Bad mobile speed

Not enough naked URL links

Not testing niches with PPC

Not enough topical coverage

Confusing topical authority vs coverage

Bad web design

No schema

No videos

No image ranking

No press releases

Weak Google Business Profiles

Using Gmail addresses

No About page or author pages

No awards, no social proof

Weak reputation management

Not pruning content

And more.

Content Pruning

James Dooley:
I export GSC into Screaming Frog to include:

Word count

Internal links

Crawl depth

Impressions

Pages with zero impressions must justify existence or be deleted/merged. Merge into bigger pages if needed, then break them out later once traffic is established.

Correlation tools (Surfer, POP) are becoming less useful. Information gain is crucial.

Disavows

Karl Hudson:
Do disavows work? 100%. If you want to build a real brand, monitor links from day one. Many auto-generated spam links can hurt you.

James Dooley:
I don’t always do proactive disavows—but I should. Toxicity thresholds matter. Many SEOs don’t understand toxicity. SEMrush toxicity scores are useless. LRT and Majestic are the only useful tools.

Disavows are critical for keeping below toxicity thresholds so you can keep building powerful links.

BBC doesn’t need disavows because they get millions of natural links. But most SEOs build only guest posts and niche edits—highly manipulated link profiles.

If you have DR70+ and rank well, check Google Search Console—I guarantee you already have a disavow uploaded.

Final Takeaways

Karl Hudson:
2024 is all about reducing Google's cost of information retrieval:

High-quality content

Proper structure

Better internal linking

Cleaner index

Safe, trusted links

James Dooley:
Quantity of quality wins in 2024.

Karl Hudson:
Exactly.