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Scottish politics dissected from a left, pro-independence stance. Each week, award-winning broadcaster and journalist, Lesley Riddoch chews over the week’s news with co-host Fraser Thompson. If you like intelligent, quirky chat about Scottish society and culture, and Scottish, UK and international politics analysed from a Scottish perspective; this podcast is for you.
Fraser (00:00)
Well, hi folks and welcome to this week's Leslie Riddlef podcast. It's definitely the autumn now, so this comes with the regular annual ⁓ sort of update and concern from me that if you're getting the good coat out of the wardrobe or if you're just off to buy a new winter coat, for heaven's sakes, snip the little tacking stitches af the back.
Les (00:22)
Gotten up this thing again, June. Fraser Honestly, you are a man obsessed.
Fraser (00:26)
This is all part of our yearly progress. We've had the brambles and now we're getting the the reminder to to sort the stitches. So yes, but well worth it.
Les (00:34)
Right. I mean the brambles are life enhancing, vitamin producing kind of food, whereas this thing about blimming other people's labels on coats is it's very you actually. Well we know we know you haven't been abducted by aliens. It's Fraser. So there's a lot on the go,
Fraser (00:43)
Well, if you wanna look a Wally, that's very much of your own accord, but
Ha ha.
it's a wee bit busy out there, to say the least. ⁓ big news this morning though, ⁓ that ⁓ a draft plan has been circulated to other EU members on the possibility of the UK adopting sanitary and phytosanitary rules or having what they call dynamic alignment, which is to say every time you change, we'll just keep up with you, ⁓ in order to avoid the post-Brexit.
red tape that was involved in ⁓ food rules and food exporting, which had huge impacts on particularly the Scottish shellfish sector, the ⁓ Langestines and stuff like that. There's a whole load of you know tons of stuff rotted ⁓ in ⁓ warehouses ⁓ that this sort of changeover from Brexit. All sorts of weird and wonderful things going in the opposite direction. I remember speaking to a guy practically in tears who'd actu imported sort of 20 grand's worth of honey
that he couldn't get out of Edinburgh airport and then was going to get charged thousands and thousands of pounds to have it professionally destroyed and what was he gonna do and how was he gonna get it sent back? ⁓ so it it looks like the ⁓ the Burnham government ⁓ kind of further moving closer to the EU is very much ⁓ on the card.
Les (02:13)
It it is, and I mean it sounds like okay, phytosome. It's all sounds really boring. But this actually is a really big one. ⁓ I was listening to the the news was just breaking before this we've started doing the podcast. And ⁓ I mean it it really is enormous there suggesting it's gonna add five billion pounds to the economy per year, and fair people are, you know, having various stabs at whether that's too little, too much. But basically our our producers here
couldn't export into the EU without a 25-page amount of paperwork was the big problem. ⁓ And so basically an awful lot of them shut up shop. They talked to one cheese producer who actually ended up selling his company because they used to also sell the same way as you'd get a dot of cheese sold sent to you in the posterior, maybe, they would send dots of cheese across to the EU to individual consumers the same way. And that ended completely.
So it put loads of businesses, well, out of business or selling on to bigger conglomerates because they would have the, you know, the size to be able to deal with all the paperwork and the difficulties of selling in. And the other thing, I'm hearing what you're saying about the honey coming in the way, but both these contributors were saying that actually ⁓ what what happened was that despite all the bloomin' nonsense from Boris Johnson, ⁓
We never in Britain implemented our end of the restrictions. So basically, E Britain has been awash with imports from the EU because we never sort of bothered to basically apply the restrictions that has been applied going in the other direction until two years ago. And ⁓ this particular contributor who was the cheesemaker, and he sounded like a bit of a Brexit man because he was saying we should have implemented Brexit properly, by which he meant
If if if we had ⁓ applied the pain to EU producers that has been done in the last two years, they might have frisked up and actually got through to an agreement like this. I suspect, you know, there's there's been a lot of resistance at this end, you know, from the Tories basically, who were never gonna let go of their weird isolationist dream. ⁓ but anyway, where we are now is I just immediately when I was listening to this, was just thinking really about particularly
you know, the island's shellfish producers, as you mentioned, and and kind of the whole agricultural sector in Scotland, anybody that's putting stuff in, and small businesses, which is actually what predominates in Scotland. So if this goes ahead, and it sounds like it will actually, because they've produced they've published this as a draft sort of memorandum that's being agreed with all the EU states and us, then that's quite something. I mean, there's a few caveats.
folk who don't export will go, God, we have to abide now by EU regulations, whether you like it or not. ⁓ it would seem that actually there hasn't been that much deviation in some respects, which again leads you to question what was taking back control all about when your largest market always needed you to basically cozy up and have roughly the same set of regulations and so on. ⁓ and any third party agreements that we make with anyone else, they'll
Hit the bin unless they also comply with the EU. So here we are, right? We're we're just exactly where you you know, the worst of all worlds from any kind of mad Brexite kind of person is concerned. We have no control, right? In this now, the EU will decide, and it I'm not criticizing them, you know, it's their club, their rules. That was always the case. But they decide what and they can continually change their rules on lots of things.
and we just have to go jump how high. That's how much say we have in it in Brexited Britain. ⁓ so for sure, I mean I'm sure that the Tories will manage to, you know, jump up and down about it and and Nigel Farage too, although I notice that Farage has been bumped today as a as a columnist for the telegraph. ⁓ so what a shame, but then didn't read it anyway.
Fraser (06:23)
Ha.
Les (06:25)
So anyway, that but that that's kind of like there's a direction of travel here which is definitely on the kind of cozying up slowly, you know, to the EU. And you'll hear probably so many food producers on today who are just saying, This is like we've been this guy said, I've been praying for this for six years. So it it'll be very hard to then put this abstract kind of, you know, nonsense basically forward, although I'm sure Farage will make a good fist of it.
Fraser (06:53)
course it also applies to our seed potatoes. Scotland has a a world beating seed potato ⁓ industry which was ⁓ entirely banned. You couldn't sell sealed potatoes to the the EU. But of course, you know, it was twenty seventeen ⁓ that the Brexit finally was implemented, seventeen eighteen. and all these changes, all everybody else has has found new markets and new suppliers ⁓ in that period. ⁓ all these Scottish suppliers, yes, will have
great benefits of getting a kind of reset of back to where we were before we were started, although perhaps not quite as close. ⁓ we'll have to go back in again and go, hi, remember us. Can you go in and ditch the new guy and come back? big, big problems there. And it's, you know, it's not a a silver bullet.
Les (07:36)
Yeah, it's and and you know, in case in case it needed saying, an independent Scotland would not have gone for Brexit in the first place and would just not be waiting to see how you know how England changes on all of this. Just on this thing of however, where ⁓ where the EU's going with Burnham, there was a wee story that I don't notice anybody particularly picking up, ⁓ that politico have about the EU's
Saying they're open to flexibility on the Euro and Schengen if UK tries to rejoin. Now, this is another biggie. ⁓ basically, this is two EU officials and they're speaking to politico anonymously because of the sensitive matter that's being ⁓ discussed. But they're basically saying that there shouldn't be a requirement to ⁓ to to force a UK back into, you know, the opt-outs that we had already could essentially
Still remain, which sounds extraordinary to be honest, and is a bit of a game changer because UGOV did some polling and it found that 55% of British people want to reverse Brexit with 34% happy to stay outside. But when you say that it means joining the Euro and joining a Schengen passport free area, ⁓ you it absolutely reverses. So only 35% of people are in favour and 43% are opposed.
These, of course, obviously UK, you know, statistics. If this was a Scottish thing, I think you would find the stats very different anyway. Because like, I mean, really the Schengen passport free area, it's like anyway. So that if that is, you know, more than just a couple of kind of conversations with people off the record in a coffee bar in Brussels somewhere, you know, if there's something to that, ⁓ that is quite a boost for Andy Burnham again, because it looks like
you know, the EU are ready to kind of fall over backwards basically to have the UK back in again. but, you know, there's nothing obviously there's nothing official in it.
Fraser (09:40)
Indeed. And ⁓ I think all of these things were actually lined up to happen under Starmer and being somewhat delayed because of the fact that ⁓ the UK changed Prime Minister. So these are not I'm sure Andy Burnham will be not ⁓ backwards at coming forwards at claiming the credit for these things and saying it's all down to him, but they were very much in motion. But I think it's it's definitely good news for Scottish producers and the Scottish economy.
Les (10:05)
old Starmer must be biting the carpet actually when you watch but d damps the brakes, isn't it? I always remember when I was at Radio Scotland, ⁓ there was a similar sort of thing where one controller of Radio Scotland, one station of the year, when I I was w you know, it was just one of the broadcasters there. But actually many of the changes have been put in hand already by his predecessor. You know, and again everybody thought, Pff, he's tough luck. But there you go.
Fraser (10:08)
It's just like hang on. Yeah.
Talking of changes at Baby C Radio Scotland, did you see Kevin McNece's broadside against them on ⁓ Facebook? He's been absolutely gone with two barrels, ⁓ particularly against ⁓ Cole Connie of the morning. I wanna hear from you. He's very annoyed with her ⁓ Glaswegian accent. ⁓ I wanna know what you think. She said, Well, I wanna hear much less from you, Connie, and a lot more from Stephen Jardin, who manages to produce the show much more professionally than you do.
Les (10:34)
yeah.
See, I have a bit of a thing about this because I it's as I think I said, I'm I'm learning Gaelic. I mean, really, really slowly. So please okay, people do they hear that and then they come up and do these long greetings in Gaelic that just can't actually apply to. In fact, I was doing a weed talk in a nursing home in Wick, where my aunt is staying, and ⁓ the guy s a guy started talking to me in Gaelic. ⁓ so that was quite a stunner actually. ⁓ but I managed a couple of words. Anyway, the point of it being
Fraser (11:07)
Yeah, Kuman Hiring you're like, no.
Les (11:25)
And I've been waiting about this because I'm still sort of so gobsmacked by this, I'm needing to kind of absolutely check that I'm my understanding of this is correct. But an awful lot of what looks like sloppy s sort of English in Scots, particularly in Glasgow, is actually a literal translation of Gaelic. Now, I mean I'm not talking about you know s so for example, when I came across the water from Belfast and people would say, ⁓ where do you stay? I always used to think, I'm not a budgie, I don't stay somewhere, I live somewhere.
But actually, the Gaelic for where do you live is literally where do you stay. There's other another thing, and this is one I'm putting this out, and that I'm I this I knew I would end up talking about this and I need to double check it. But there is a plural of you, which is essentially in Gallic use. There's there's an awful lot, there's a continuing present that is used in in sort of like, are you wanting? Do you you know that sort of thing. ⁓ the T is not as as well pronounced in many words.
And now I'm shuffling into the areas of Gaelic that scare the hell out of me. So I'm just going to leave it there. But there's an awful lot of the way Scots speak that is fundamentally crafted by another language, Gaelic, behind it. And, you know, I well, the more I know and the more I'm certain about it, I'm afraid I will hit you with it. But there's a I'm sorry, but there is a bit of a snobbery actually about women for one thing on the wireless. I was the first and I got, geez, I just got unbelievable stick.
back in the day from folk about the way I spoke. ⁓ and about Glaswegians. I mean, for the long period I was at Radio Scotland, I don't think there was a working class Glaswegian as a reporter. I think, not one. ⁓ you know, so
Fraser (13:06)
I mean I was almost struck by the c you know, if you think it's Radio Scotland and there was you know, you get the very occasional news from Orkney or something, you think, Why are we not actually hearing different people's voices all the time? This is a kind of peculiar sort of monolith of of accents for something that's supposed to be ⁓ Scottish radio is is very always strikes me as a bit peculiar.
Les (13:27)
Well, there was there's a guy and now I'm sort of thinking it's Col I'm wanting to say it's Colin Campbell. I think that's right. ⁓ dear. Who used to do you remember this guy? He used to produce a a really wacky kind of r left field ⁓ it was actually on cassettes, right? That's how old I am and how long ago it was, right? But he did a sort of he did a version of he had a radio for every part of the Highlands Scotland accent.
So he had I mean he had g went from Radio Ahnagat across in Aberdeen to Radio Caithness and Radio Betty Hill. Now that's class because you know, the difference between I think you've got ki you know Caithness nominally in Wick and Betty Hill, it's thirty miles. But there is a distinct difference that there's more of a needle twang when you get further west. And he'd got Radio Ala Bac, whose kind of kingpin thing was a recipe for curried goga.
⁓ all of this to be it it was just it was the accuracy of the accents and you could hear people he'd recordings of doing live gigs and there was people dying in the audience laughing. You know, it was that sort of thing where someone starts laughing and you hear it very loudly, and about a minute later they're drawing breath because they can hardly you know, they're just completely collapsing. And it's because nobody is used to being taken the piss out of accurately in their own accent.
You know, comedy is always about Glasgow, apart from Gary Tank Commander, and I'm sure others which I've stopped watching. But you know, it's that sort of thing that we don't hear the range of everything. And I suggested back in the day we should have him on Radio Scotland. And I really pushed for it, didn't get anywhere. So it's kind of but the the the the you know the the majority of the pushback is against working class Glaswegian accents.
And I think we sort of need to unpack a little bit what that's all about. And it's not just an accent, it is an attitude. I mean, well, I remember doing a thing with Elaine C. Smith and the independence campaign in ⁓ Edinburgh, and and she was kind of say I think she she and others had sort of said, it's funny how they have to draft people in from the West to kind of get this thing going, because it's and that okay, now I'll get pelters from everybody in Edinburgh about that. But there's a sort of
Fraser (15:24)
yeah.
Les (15:44)
I know myself if you go and do gigs in the West Coast, you have to really, you know, you have to pump yourself up quite a lot for it because people are really much more out there, connected, they're quick, you know, they'll interrupt you, they'll heckle, they'll they'll respond, basically. ⁓ all of which is part of a difference, not just the accent, but everything in in the delivery and whatever is part of that different kind of city. So
It doesn't it doesn't I'm not saying it totally floats my boat, but on the other hand, this is, you know, Glasgow's a big part of Scotland and you know
Fraser (16:20)
Absolutely. And and also that kind of ⁓ willingness to engage with you. I remember ⁓ classically being in the the underground ⁓ the pile at uni and this guy's absolutely stoned out his tree, you know, are we at hill hill yet? We're at hill hill yet ⁓ and just asking every single time the doors opened, you know, where were we, where were we? And everybody's kinda ignoring him. And then a couple of people eventually just kinda kept him right, put the guy off. Anyway, we went into the city and came back again. my Palfamuri didn't realise that I had this had had this experience come back up.
Saw the guy standing outside tells us, says all you got here then. Good to see you, blah, blah, blah. And chatted away from it. And he's Why are you interacting with this scary individual? This is not allowed. I was like, We're in Scotland. It's okay. You can talk to people. It's fine, you know. So, yes. ⁓ Mr. McNish is certainly not happy with the whole range of output of BBC Scotland. I think most of which we would ⁓ argue was correct. And ⁓ Colconnie certainly does like to jump in air the top of people and barely gives them a moment to
cogitate a thought before she's ⁓ banged in with what she thinks and things. ⁓
Les (17:21)
Well, see, there you are, because actually despite all this theoretical defense of the Glaswegian working class accent, I don't listen to it enough to even know that. So there you are.
Fraser (17:31)
Well, I think did you not write a whole column or do a tweet about her constantly interrupting somebody about last year or the year before? Yeah.
Les (17:36)
but it but it was but it was ⁓ probably, but it was probably you I mean, you know, what this is the thing is they all do, you know, when they think there's a I mean, I've heard Gary Robertson doing this, and I mean, I remember Gary back when he did a a sort of much gentler program, there's a slower sort of s delivery. I mean, now he he's adopted this kind of absolutely staccato rat-a-ta-tat kind of thing, ⁓ which is like the Jeremy Paxman thing, which at the time when I was broadcasting, ⁓ that seemed to be the absolute
pinnacle of how you interviewed people. So you started off with a, you know, well practised sneer and you're the guys on the whoever it is is in the back foot. And you basically don't quite let them finish anything so that you rattle them. And that, you know, okay, that's one way of doing things. But it seems to now be universal. ⁓ so yeah, that's that's a bit of a bad one.
Fraser (18:27)
Indeed. Anyway, back to Mr. Burnham. ⁓ Yesterday or the day before he was getting accused of embarrassing the king after having sent him on his tour of the Caribbean with a strict instruction not to apologize at all for slavery and certainly not to mention the reparations. Burnham and his usual chatty self that we mentioned last week kind of rolled out that he was open to apologising for previous slavery.
then kind of finally re finessed that to say but of course not to make reparations and it shouldn't fall on UK taxpayers to make reparations, but is now looking at potential further debt restructuring and and debt forgiveness for for Caribbean nations, which is normally ⁓ on the kind of history of reparation requests ⁓ or campaigns, ⁓ considered to be kinda insufficient and that just
forgiving or or kind of repackaging kind of vampire debt that that came about post colonialism when ⁓ developing nations were kind of encouraged to get into hawk with ⁓ western banks and western nations is not necessarily the way to go.
Les (19:45)
Yeah, that's it it is quite a a difficult one because I mean a bit of you feels in fairness terms, you know, we we robbed these countries. There's no doubt about it. You do wonder how long that can last and the arguments they've got at the moment about folk now not being, you know, responsible for what happened two hundred, three hundred years ago. Yeah.
I th but mean this it's obviously there's a positioning going on at the moment about where this this is all going to land. And I must say, having watched a few BBC and listened to a few reports, it's interesting how much all the interviewers are managing to find somebody in Antigua, ⁓ like a a punter, who basically sort of says, Ach yeah, bygones, you know, mean just an apology's enough and we all just have to grow up and move on. This is not the general I don't think is the general view. ⁓
within those nations. If I even saw one premier who was basically on, I think it was listening to Radio Four, who again was kind of saying there's a stage to all of this and we first of all need to have an acknowledgement of responsibility. I think that actually, you know, one could one could mistake that for a soft touch. I think that's stage one, stage two is apology, stage three is money. So I think that one hasn't gone away.
And I see that the Australian Prime Minister has is is over and having a in fact the Australians and Canadians who are all the sort of middle powers are having a meeting with the UK later today, which could be use you know, talking about a lot of things. But the the Australian PM, Anthony Albanese, apparently was asked about this decision about slavery. ⁓ and he he said that any decision on it should acknowledge the economic hardship.
And I imagine, you know, it's it's observed that the expectation from number ten would have been that a fellow middle power would basically have backed their line. So it, you know, I don't think this one is over bar the shouting. It will still go on. Even though clearly everybody, you know, the the the the broadcasters kind of you know were sort of singing hallelujah when all of these complex discussions were sidetracked by the king obviously getting completely
Druk it without an umbrella and you know, it in those little moments where those flash of temper moments that he he often has, I sort of snarled around and said, You know, where's my umbrella? But to be fair, his tr you know, he was as druk it as as Rishi Sunak was that time he announced the election.
Fraser (22:07)
If you
Yeah, although I have do you know, if just for you, dear listener, went back and rewatched that two or three times. He's laughing. He's just kinda you know, I was I'm soaked anyway, but where is the umbrella? ⁓ he I don't think he actually is that cross. I'm pretty convinced that this is just another kind of like well, we expect you to be absolutely hopping mad 'cause we've seen you have jeffing when you're sitting in your carriage.
Les (22:31)
Well.
He walks off, does he not walk off looking for the umbrella? I mean, there's a sort of there's a sort of protocol about these things which I it looks like he just decided to break. But that fair enough when you when he turned round, you know, I mean it he yeah, that was a Drucket King.
Fraser (22:51)
Apparently joke to the guy who's the Prime Minister that was with that he was getting ready to grow watercress in his trousers. but yeah, no, it it it does seem to be kind of just a bit, you know, ⁓ you know, seeing the sort of slightly hilarity side of it, but also at the same token, how come I've got this wheen of people supposed to be supporting me doing this stressful and complicated thing where I need to know where to stand and where to move and what to do, and it's all being choreographed and nobody's thought to get me an umbrella and I'm getting soaked.
Les (22:58)
W weird. But yeah.
And then the next day, which was sort of like really quite warm, everybody was being the you know, the news bulletins were picking up all his minders walking around with umbrellas, including some quite girly looking ones. So it looks like they had to actually whip, you know, get some some local Antigua umbrellas ready, right? Yes, but that's the only sort of that's the that's the the small laugh. you gotta say, there's Burnham again. Listen, just by the by, I'm not a f huge fan. I'm noticing that this guy is really good at PR.
Fraser (23:33)
Go into a local shop.
Les (23:48)
You know, he really is he he managed to get in with a he you know, while the king was in deep water with that and also had been he had gone early, so he was being punted around and everybody's like, Are we getting apology? Are we getting money? And he can't answer any of that because he's been told not to sort of get into it. So then Andy Burnham turns up and basically goes and has a game of cricket. You know, so there's loads of pictures of him ⁓ y you know, playing cricket quite happily. in fact s facing Sir Vivian Richards in a friendly bowling, you know.
experience. So he's he's got he has got the luck of the not Irish about him. But anyway, long I don't know how long that'll last.
Fraser (24:26)
Indeed, indeed. you were saying that we had some ⁓ listener contributions about ⁓ Stephen Kinnock, I nearly said Neil there, and ⁓ yet again ⁓ also pointing out that we don't have an islander on the CalMac board.
Les (24:42)
Yes, these are this this does yep, th these are these are things that came in last. There's so much that we just don't cover in a week, you know. The two of us kind of bang back ideas of what there is to discuss and then you look at the list of it, we'd need to be on for two hours to get through it all actually. ⁓
Fraser (24:57)
And then we'd get emails from people saying it's far too long.
Les (25:00)
Exactly. And just while we're at it, here's another one I can just tuck away because it's connected to the EU theme that we've got up there. It seems that actually quietly, so I was mentioning Canada, ⁓ you know, being part of that discussions in Antigua, ⁓ it looks like the EU has actually scrapped the offer of associate member status to the Canadians. So ⁓ you know, that that quietly has just been dumped as sort of not viable. They're not, you know, it's not compatible, they're not in Europe. So ⁓ interesting.
That one. Anyway, the the Stephen Kinnock remarks, yes, I saw I noticed somebody, you know, when it was the Abervan disaster. And I remember that really clearly as a baron because ⁓ at school we were asked that morning what had happened. And I remember being in primary three with a very scary teacher in Belfast, and I you know stuck my hand up and said, Yeah, you know, that all these children being killed ⁓ when a sort of Sly keep s fell down in their school.
And I can remember everybody looking at complete shock, like partly you sought and partly, how did you know that? And afterwards everyone said, How did you know that? And I you know, even then I sort of said, Don't you all watch TV with your mum and dad, you know, the news. And even then, obviously not. But so that's so that's by the by. So th these this these remarks hit me. And ⁓ so it was a I think it was a response on Facebook where somebody, Stephen Kinnock, had waxed lyrical about this and you know, how
How important it was to respect the community and ⁓ all the rest of it. And somebody else said it's great to see you marking the 60th anniversary of this dark day, etched in the memory of the nation. ⁓ but it's basically here's the tribute you left in the drawer. The tribunal found the coal board wholly to blame and said the disaster could have been prevented. The coal board then demanded a quarter of a million from the disaster fund to clear the tip that killed the children. The fund raised by public donation.
Handed over a lot of that money. Your party's government applied that pressure in secret. George Thomas, who some people will remember as the speaker, objected, then folded and leaded on the trustees until they folded too. And so it goes on. I mean, there's a whole long litany of all the Labour characters. Ron Davis, the party's first wealth secretary at that time, actually returned the 150,000 quid after there was a huge fuss about it.
But without interest and without inflation, and did say the demand should never have been made. So it concludes saying, Remembering is lovely, your lot, build the bereaved for clearing the mind zone tip. So, you know, this is where you've just got to watch, isn't it? That you know, people weighing in and doing the sort of predictable words, because there's people that really know what happened behind it all.
Fraser (27:38)
Yeah.
Les (27:46)
And ⁓ Vince Godley also emailed in to talk about ⁓ the the treatment of Murdo McClennan who ⁓ who objected to ⁓ two senior civil servants being appointed to launch the two new ferries, one for Harris, one for North Uis. he felt that there were many people on the islands who'd given years of their lives to serving these communities who deserved that moment in the sun. And following this public objection ⁓ by Murdo,
The head of CMAL apparently withdrew support for McClennan's reappointment to a board position. And at that point, I think he was the only islander on the C-Mall, Calmac, whatever it was, board. ⁓ so that seemingly resulted in him losing his post. So that kind of, you know, again, somebody might say that wasn't the way it all kind of hung. But really, really? ⁓ I mean
You think when Cmal and CalMac get banged together, as the Scottish Government's proposing to do with Quangos, they've got to make, they've got to find a way back from that. That the level of people not with with no practical experience who get banged onto boards that are utterly dependent on decisions. The decisions are are dependent on having a good grasp of what you're actually having to deal with. It it stands for everything that is slowing Scotland down with just no trust.
That actually the practicalities of things are are so well understood by people who are in the situation and so badly understood by people who rarely even visit the islands. So that was two two contributions. And if anybody else wants to email, she said, scared scared to even put it out there. ⁓ it's hello at leslieriddick.com is the email to go for.
Fraser (29:36)
Grand. ⁓ it's ⁓ election day in America Land and the ⁓ US midterns. ⁓ who knows what's going to happen. I do wonder whether we're going to see a bit of poll shock and whether the the kind of Democrat lead is actually all it's cracked up to be. And we might very well see a kind of surge of shy conservatives who don't crumb up up in polling. but it could be the the beginning of
Donald's kinda lame duck period.
Les (30:09)
Well, it it could be. And I mean, you're listening to all of this thinking, Hallelujah, and it would be so beautifully ironic if what does for the Donald is what he managed to get, you know, he managed to get elected on claims that Joe Biden had pushed up
Fraser (30:28)
T.
Sorry about that. And it's right.
Les (31:26)
Righty.
y we just pick up again or
Fraser (31:33)
I'll just gonna go again from the beginning. Yeah. And it's election day in America land, ⁓ the midterm elections. Americans are going to the polls. ⁓ I do wonder whether we're going to see any kind of poll shock and a whole lot of shy conservatives are gonna appear that don't ⁓ prop up on ⁓ polling returns, and ⁓ whether the the Democrat lead is actually going to materialize.
⁓ were on course to take both the the House and the Senate. But this could be the the beginning of the the Donald's lame duck years, although there's still a huge amount of power ⁓ held within the presidency itself. ⁓ it would be interesting to see what the outcome is. Although the slowpokes take an absolute age to get everything counted, so who knows when we'll actually get the final results.
Les (32:25)
Indeed. But I mean it, you know, been pretty genuinely fascinating given the impact Donald Trump's had on everybody and everything. I mean, I'm sure everyone will have been watching a certain amount of news, so we're only repeating what folk already know. But it seems that in certain states like Texas, which is mind blowing that that could go Democrat, it's a Latino vote that's a real i clincher. There was a great report in Channel Four News, ⁓ when Matt Fry was out, I think in Austin, Texas.
And was at what should have been a really busy marketplace that was nearly all Latino stalls and whatever, completely empty because of ice. Because people are still terrified that if they're out and about, they could be picked up and deported. And that seems to have been, for them, that's been a real game changer. ⁓ clearly the irony is that with Trump managing to get in on the suggestion that ⁓ Joe Biden had presided over record levels of inflation.
Well, there's his y you know, that's been an easy association to make, is the billions spent in the war in Iran, resulting in for the Americans record high gas prices, which, you know, you you can't get around. Are the tariffs not working? We already said in a previous ⁓ podcast that Trump had had to bung farmers basically to try to make up for the tariffs. But it's weird because on the other hand, mm there's there's long interviews with people trying to fig who are trying to sort of come
in their heads try kind of square up where they are with all of it. And some people, I mean Elon Musk, as people will also know doubtless, has spent just unbelievable amounts on all this. I think it's the record spend ever, $446 million, apparently so far, ⁓ making him the largest political donor in in modern American history. And they've turned actually, there's there's one ⁓ the Guardian
turned the amount of money into what you could buy with that. So the amount he's put into this single election could fund ⁓ a thousand Tesla cyber trucks, or he could have ordered more than 31 million cheeseburgers. There you go. But so there's lots of Musk stuff going in. And a lot of it in certain states is trying to suggest that Democratic candidates back, I mean, you you hear people say 12 different genders.
So they're trying to get and some of it is also completely fabricated. The guy in I think it's the guy in Texas. I'm trying to remember because there'd be so many individual cases, but he's a minister himself. The the suggestion is that he has been, you know, suggesting there's six genders, and he just hasn't. But there's an AI video out with him looking incredibly convincing, saying that he is. So
You know, some people are really that's becoming a bit of a point for that, but at the end of it, when they're asked to rank the things that really bother them, it is absolutely the direct comparison between bombing Iran, which he said he wouldn't do, get involved in foreign affairs, you know, fight fights anywhere else, and the amount that inflation has changed everyone's lives. And actually, when you listen to some Republican commentators, they comment they basically put head they their headline issue is his
Unpresidential style. You think that is really putting it mildly. I mean, he's effed, blinded, you know, being belittled reporters. But that, you know, for for the base, we we're all led to understand that the base love that kind of straight talking, rudeness, and all the rest of it. And yet that seems to be, of course, we're talking about critical margins of voters. So for the those who are kind of wavering, that kind of brusque stuff.
seems to be also a bit of a tin lead, but just exactly as you say, everybody points out that there's certain types of voter that are always under-sampled and they're usually the folk who would probably support Trump. So th the other thing that's interesting about this is how obviously everyone's going, how'll he react? You know, like will he even accept basically that, you know, i he's lost because that's the one that everybody's really worried about. And he's
He's he was asked about that a couple of days ago and he says, if the Democrats win, we'll figure away. ⁓ basically. ⁓ you know, he says he hopes that wouldn't be the case, but ⁓ then he says, We the press as president you have strong veto and you end up working out deals. And he'll accept the results no matter what, as long as they are honest, which is exactly what he said in the lead up to twenty twenty four, which he did actually win, so there wasn't, you know, the
The need to have the massive fight then. But he has apparently directed the Justice Department to file a lawsuit specifically in Alaska, because that's the race, which is a bit weird because there's a Republican senator ⁓ candidate, Dan Sullivan, standing, but there's another ⁓ candidate also called Daniel J. Sullivan Jr. on the ballot. And
it's not a I don't think he's a democratic ⁓ c candidate, but the the you know Trump's arguing that that could siphon votes away from this incumbent incumbent Republican. And and he's claiming Trump's saying this guy's only running because the Democrats want to steal the election, ring any bells, people. So, you know, there's there's that. just a bit of polling's been done by the Washington Post and ABC News, which says
Seventy eight percent of Americans are not confident that Trump will accept the midterm results if his party loses. Which is i I mean, you've got to keep hitting yourself over the head and saying, How have we got to here? But I don't know, what do you think about that?
Fraser (38:20)
I it's so hard to understand what they're actually gonna get up to. And part of me always feels that we get far too heavily invested in the whole American politics thing. But then, you know, somebody decides to block the Strait of Hormouths and all of a sudden everything's gone kaput ⁓ and the whole economy's falling over. ⁓ I think we you know, we're certainly entering into a potentially dangerous and serious position if he's in the huff ⁓ and he looks like he's
lost but are refusing to accept the results. There as I say there is a huge amount of of individual power within the presidency, the right of veto, as you mentioned, and all sorts of things that they can kind of do deals on the hill and what have you to to get things through or just to kind of stymie stuff for two years. It is a system that's set up specifically to avoid mob rule, so that there are all these checks and balances and the kind
midterm elections and kind of avoiding the the situations that where you you might get populism. ⁓ but they couldn't be in a a more populist state at the moment if they tried. And ⁓ it'll be very interesting to see what comes next and whether he actually relinquishes in two years time and ⁓ who comes off the back of them. There's a continuing talk with a kind of NATO chat and what have you that they just need to ride Trump out and it's only a few more years to go.
But what follows Trump is a question. You know, is it gonna go back to kind of US reset and that was just a blip and appropriation? But or is it ⁓ more of the same?
Les (39:54)
Yeah, there's there's quite you know, you you listen to the speculation by those in the know about whether they'll go back to a sort of more classical Republicans that of the type of Marco Rubio or stay with the kind of hawkish mad people and go for JD Vance. And also suggestions that if Trump does lose, he'll you know, obviously he's not a man that takes failure very well. So he'll take it out of somebody and the the suggestion is that Pete Hegseth will go, but you know, would anybody be weeping here? The bigger thing though that you s you were picking up though
Fraser (40:21)
Yeah.
Les (40:24)
There's an interesting article here ⁓ by Politico again, suggesting that that that if the Democrats do well, ⁓ there could be a actually an even more difficult period for for Europe because as you say, Trump Trump has got a lot of ⁓ he may be constrained at home if he loses control of Congress, but the president is still very free to focus on foreign policy and trade. And there's very few checks on him, congressional checks on him there, which suggests that he could basically, you know.
displace heavily and give an awful lot more difficult times to Europe. there's one particular guy, a German diplomat quoted, who said that if the Democrats win, there'll be voices here in Europe, important ones, who'll want to celebrate and congratulate the Democrats, but he says, I think that would be poisonous. I'd advise European friends to be restrained and avoid creating any pretext for the White House to be mad at Europe any more than it already is.
So who knows? I mean, as you say, we there's nothing we can do about this actually. So we do spend a lot of time pouring over it. But I think, you know, I think on this occasion it's interesting because it it's interesting. It is fascinating because the Democrats have have still to get ⁓ you know, this individual, they've been very good at selecting the kind of middle of the road candidates in essentially right wing Republican n seats that would that would begin to close the gap and sort of
be the right, you know, s I've sort of pretty middle-the-road, even centre-right kind of candidate. But who are they? Because on the other hand, there are some really left-wing ⁓ speakers there, very inspiring speakers like in in Michigan, ⁓ who have got a completely different conception, a bit, you know, on the Zorin Mandami kind of axis of what a the the Democratic Party could be about. And when you look at polling about the party, folk are not at all clear
what it's doing. ⁓ I mean, on the other hand, you've got folk who are pretty clear what Trump's doing, ⁓ and it's, you know, it divides everybody. But anyway, so that it it we're just not over bar the shouting. Even if the blue wave sweeps that ⁓ from complete control of whatever he wants to do, it will mostly affect what it what happens in the States.
Fraser (42:40)
Absolutely. ⁓ you mentioned ICE and the Latino farmers markets and and markets there. not a million miles away from that, but ⁓ Shibana Mahmoud has announced changes to ⁓ long term settlement rules in some respects ⁓ rueing back on previous changes, ⁓ particularly around ⁓ right to remain and settlement for healthcare workers.
Les (43:07)
Yeah, ⁓ I and it it I it's I mean the lot of commentary as whether this is through gritted teeth with Shabana Mahmoud. I I just is her name not Mahmoud? I is it just because folk most commentators can't say
Fraser (43:22)
Possibly, yes, back in. Yeah.
Les (43:23)
Yeah, anyway, so let's do it. Anyway, but she she seems to be pretty wedded to her to her original plans and there's been a lot of pressure on her to say whether or not Andy Burnham basically stood over her and told her to kind of, you know, just roll back on this. But care workers and and some other public service workers basically are still on five years before they get indefinite leave to remain. There was, you know, stuff on the TV showing people
Fraser (43:26)
Yeah.
Les (43:51)
in a working home, absolutely leaping around with delight at that news. ⁓ it seems, I mean, it seems the original thinking about including them in this long period of of wait ⁓ till you get indefinite leave was because some of these folk are ⁓ basically look like the kind of people who for various reasons, from health or stress on them, probably stress from that job, would end up be having a dependency on welfare that certain other workers wouldn't have.
I mean, when they were sort of describing that, you just think, what the I mean, what ⁓ but anyway, so they're exempted. But then when you look at kind of who's left in, there was a piece, ⁓ again, it'll be Channel Four News because I'm not really watching anything else, looking at prison workers because there's a huge I think it's two thousand five hundred. The the whole English system is short ⁓ to get prite up to proper staffing levels.
And that lack of proper staffing levels means that people actually on remand, even, like they're not found guilty of anything yet, are being banged up for twenty-two, twenty-four hours a day. So this is kind of which then leads to all sorts of bad outcomes ⁓ and injustice apart from anything else. But they're not that you know, so there's there's a there's a large number of people have come in ⁓ from Firth of the Powers to do those jobs, and they are not
being given a an opt-out. So I think it's 10 and 15 years that they have to wait for indefinite leave to remain, which will the prison folk were saying, mean a lot of them will just go, that's it, we're off. So it's it's it's kind of going to be interesting because obviously on the other side, the Tories, I mean, Kemi Badenog is using this moment to basically, while Aldi Burnham's off, you know, the playing cricket in Antigua in the sun, ⁓ she's kind of managing to style it into a
You know, he's off there kind of having fun. We're here dealing with the nitty-gritty and saying that this is, you know, a really bad idea and you know, there's that there's been a rolling back on what was really needed to stop illegal immigration, blah blah. So we'll see how this all pans out, but I wonder if it also sort of vaguely suggests that Andy Burnham is less worried about night the threat from Nigel Farage these days.
Fraser (46:16)
yes, I would agree with that. And the certainly the the polling and the sort of kind of implosion of reform and its kind of mojo, ⁓ with these series of of setbacks about the ⁓ allegations and questions over donations, ⁓ has really impacted their momentum. seeing the Conservatives come back up to some degree and Labour go ahead. And certainly obviously we talked last week about Burnham's personal poll rating be much higher than the parties, but it
also kind of gets you back into a stage where people are going back into their own lane. I mean one of the sort of difficulties in elections is when everybody starts jumping ship and moving around, it becomes far less easy to predict what's happening. But it also means in the first past deposit system, when the conservative vote collapsed, ⁓ people moved to the Liberal Democrats or move elsewhere, it allows other parties to come through the middle. And that's why we had this kind of ⁓ uneven distribution of of votes led to such a a significant
Labour ⁓ majority. So it'll be ⁓ everybody's kind of moving back into their own lane. There has been increased suggestion of course about a potential May election next year. And that's been further highlighted by the the kind of budget and you know, we talked last week about the the the forthcoming spending reviews and what have you, and there's just continual rhetoric ⁓ about questions about what is going to happen.
post the current parliament. I don't see that within this parliament, but doesn't necessarily say I don't see that before twenty thirty. ⁓ and all this kind of reiteration, ⁓ of the mood music that ⁓ the current parliament's not going to last as long as it might well do.
Les (47:59)
Yeah. ⁓ I sh and but before we move on to that, I should say that the the thing that's still in Shabana Mahmoud's proposals is retrospective rule changes. And you know, there's a lot of people, Diane Abbott, a lot of other left or lefties are sort of saying that's completely unacceptable. But it looks like what's happened is because I mean, this is a trick my dad used to do, you know, he'd he'd wave around his left hand and then he'd be doing something with his right. You'd be so busy watching what he was doing with his left hand.
You wouldn't notice them stashing something somewhere and miraculously finding, you know, half a crown. But this looks like it because you've got everybody paying attention to the the care workers and their, you know, r to sort of the their new deal, as it were. But we're not looking at people who arrived here. ⁓ and the this new deal for the care workers only applies to people who are already here and arrived last May. So, you know, anybody else came here.
in good faith on whatever grounds, right? And they are now having the rules changed on them. And I mean, as Diana Habbit said, how is that fair? But that will all get doofed to one side because everybody's looking at the care workers. Anyway, as you were saying on the ⁓ on the budget, there was a there was a lot of commentary in the end that it was off a wee. You know, there was very few big ch big sort of sweeping confident changes. And
I mean, Nicola Sturgeon now seems to be drafted in as a kind of commentator of choice. But she was wheeled on to Laura Kunzberg and saying that ⁓ she can't see how Burnham can avoid a snap election next year, perhaps May. I think we're all still on the no December. But she's saying it's not possible because he's got such limit he's got no fiscal room for maneuver. And yet he's got this these big political mandates for big reforms. And, you know, it doesn't
it it is pretty obvious that it's really hard to see how you can move the dial on any of it. And particularly with everyone looking at John Healy, the fact he'd resigned over not enough Dosh for Defense, and then couldn't really lay out any sort of route to having more Dosh for defense. It it feels like they're now sitting, it feels like you know, new school term when you've got the jacket on that your hand me down has come to you and fundamentally it's like a blooming straight jacket. You need a bigger one.
Fraser (50:17)
Mm.
Les (50:21)
The only way these guys get a bigger jacket is by having a general election. ⁓ so that, you know, that does seem to have got everybody saying that budget and the very sort of tame nature of it suggests to a lot of people that we're looking for the first half of next year. But I don't know, are we doing a bet on that already?
Fraser (50:40)
No, I don't think we're ready to bet on that, that's for sure. ⁓ I just think it's easier to change your fiscal rules than call a whole election. And you also have to suffer the wrath of your colleagues who are ultimately going to be put out. ⁓ but yeah, if you're ⁓ Alistair Campbell was on I saw some social media clip saying that he was a concerned about Burnham to begin with, that you had very good kind of media presence, great chat, great vibes.
Les (50:54)
Yes, that that y there's that.
Fraser (51:07)
But he didn't know whether he had this sort of ruthlessness and the killer instinct that he needed to be Prime Minister. And from what he'd observed so far, he now feels that he does. ⁓ so you know, that's about about le being leader does entail these sorts of things and the calculations that other people might shy away from and ⁓ bludgeoning on into it because you think there's a a greater outcome to be had. So I'm I'm
Les (51:32)
Yeah. This this will be all out of sync, but I'm noticing here that ⁓ I'm just going to mention this because we'll put this in the notes that that there is Scotland's having its first festival of human rights. It's running from the ninth to the thirteenth of December in various cities by the looks of it. ⁓ and if anybody wants to know more about it, the links there and there's 60 events, so they're all about celebrating rights where they're being challenged and ⁓ it'll looks like a very good gig.
Right, as you were
Fraser (52:03)
Very good, very good. ⁓ we've run through quite a gamut of different topics there. I ⁓
Les (52:10)
We should say the two ones that relate probably to, you know, independence that we missed last week was the one of essentially the yes movement being found not guilty, as in, you know, there was a a there'd been a complaint and was an investigation into funds held by the yes movement. And I think it was the police that basically said there was no case to answer, ⁓ which, you know, had everybody from from the old yes campaign kind of going, well, Kenov, there you are. What was that all about?
and then another, ⁓ the three referendums shocker, I've kind of hit headlined to to myself. And this was an academic, Professor Kidd, I think, who was suggesting he is ⁓ kind of a a a supporter, Colin Kidd, of he's a member of the advisory council to the pro-union campaign group These Islands.
And this looks like a sort of an attempt to sort of move away from the complete intransigence on a second referendum because it now ⁓ he says it's max of contempt for democracy. Whoo! Anyway, so ⁓ however, ⁓ he thinks that there has to be an insurance policy offered if there was going to be a second referendum, that there would have to be a third one. So basically there would have to be a third referendum to confirm that choice. ⁓
he's I'm not quite sure where it goes here. ⁓ he's saying you could make a positive democratic case to have a clarifying third referendum, either at the conclusion of independence negotiations or better still, ten years after independence to decide if it was worth the bother. ⁓
Fraser (53:51)
Yes, just a bit like Brexit to see if it had been a disaster or not. ⁓
Les (53:54)
Yeah, or just sort of like make a good decision that but anyway, I mean there's so many there's a good column link in the p in the notes, you know, with the national pointing out how why would the UK government make any sort of decent negotiated deal with the Scots, knowing that if they could make it as unattractive as possible, they could contribute to a no vote in a third referendum. So it's it's kind of bonkers.
Fraser (54:17)
Unquestionably, and that is the the argument that's always put forward that they would do the kind of worst deal possible and be as hard nosed as humanly ⁓ could, ⁓ and then say, right, ratify that.
Les (54:31)
It's it is it's but the interesting thing of it is that ⁓ clearly the repeated questions that are being put to ⁓ unionist politicians when we get into discussing independence about how is there a democratic way out of this voluntary union, that imp the impossibility of a good answer on that one is sticking, you know, so that that has made a bit of movement on that front, which is, you know, small, small beer, but nonetheless interesting.
Fraser (54:59)
Indeed. And ⁓ you know, there are many different voices calling for a sort of confirmatory referendum and ⁓ arguments against I don't have them in front of me at the moment, but Tommy Shepherd makes similar arguments that you would have to have a confirmatory referendum and people equally apoplectically go, No, it can't be serious, they'll shaft us, we'll get nothing. ⁓ and then you'll have a second vote and say, Well, look, you know, would you rather have Gruel or come back to us? So yes, I don't
Les (55:25)
Yeah, but I mean it's true that other countries, having said all of that, other countries have done that and gone back and had a referendum to make sure people are good to go. It's kind of j you know, it's where this is coming from that just makes it so obviously looking like a little misstep, you know. I mean, what what's it? There's always those those kind of trip steps placed in towers so that if anybody came up and wasn't familiar with the lie of the land, they would with their sword trip on something and go flying backwards down the the tower. I mean, this feels a bit like that one, so.
Fraser (55:54)
Definitely. ⁓ just to pick up on the defense, there's still these kind of s reds under the bed scary stories about be prepared, you know, Boy Scout. a pal of mine was actually driving in Edinburgh a few weeks ago and was pulled over by the police who asked, you know, I would just want to check that you're aware of the security situation. And they said, What do you mean by that? Well, we just wanted to check you're aware of the security situation. And so, well, you mean like something happening here or or they kind of, you know, need to be prepared. No, no, just to be prepared.
Was a really bizarre police interaction, very strange, no leaflet, no real kind of clear message of what they were saying. ⁓ we're still having these kind of get your Chardonnay and your big beans looked out. without any sort of pop proper public information campaign. either this is to to scare you or to make you prepared, but I don't see how either of those are being achieved by the current sort of woo-hoo.
Les (56:51)
Well, it's just so. I mean, our we villagers had, I think it might be the Community Council or something, has had a missive that probably everyone has had then of a film that's being sent round that we're all meant to gather and watch, which I don't know, just on principle I'm not doing. But the th the big difference with countries that have got a real preparedness there, like Finland, is that the the stockpiling and all the rest of it is being done by the state, you know, and it's being done by the state and organized so that
You know, obviously other people are being ⁓ all b everybody's got a seventy-two hour kit bag of all sorts of things. But there's a kind of industry of stockpiling because you need to look and see when the stuff's gone off. And y you know, if you're gonna say to people you need to be permanently on the guard like this, I mean, fair play, I can remember when we crossed the water and came from Belfast in nineteen seventy-three, when I was clearing out my mother's house after she died in twenty fifteen, she had tins from Belfast.
She had it. I mean, I think she was still using, you know, if you the old Campbell soup never goes off. So I'm sure that some people will think, look, this is a bit by the by. But if you're gonna get into this seriously, these these guys, I think the point more is that there's a sort of organizational level. And because local councils are so much more and they're truly local, they're in and about it. Whereas we're kind of left, you know, sinking and swimming and hoping that the bait beans can look palatable after the seventh meal and so on.
The other thing, gosh, I I was just noticing here. yes, I went to a a David Bowie exhibition, a press opening thing at the VNA in Dundee yesterday. And it is, I mean, it's strange. I I find myself strangely emotional about it because you know, he was such a kind of stellar figure. It it feels like a bit of your extended family and looking at all the sort of memorabilia which would have the same effect. But what's really fascinating about it is there's so many
Fraser (58:19)
Well and debt.
Les (58:48)
There's so many bits of the the actual paper that he wrote really famous songs on. And the strange thing about it is he's got such neat, tiny little writing. ⁓ I mean, some people said that must have been a fifth draft or something. But of course, you know, back in the day you did write stuff. And it's all it's strange, it's on graph paper. And actually, over the years, it's still on graph paper. So it looks like, you know, there's some paddies taking around with him all over the place.
That seems a bit by the by. There's also the big costumes and all the rest of it. My only thing, and there's a bit of he came to Dundee. So there's a lot of pictures for any Dundonian who wants to see this kind of hard to reconcile image of the, you know, slightly stayed old cared hall that we all know and love, with David Bowie in his Aladdin Seine gear climbing one of the balconies at the side. So that's that's quite, you know, it that's quite good. The thing about it is it's not big.
Fraser (59:37)
Mm-hmm.
Les (59:44)
And it it's only one half of the exhibition space that the VNA has. I asked, and apparently that's because it's curated by the London VNA and they're hoping to take that exhibition all over Britain so they've got it at a size that it can fit in basically all over the place. I it would just be nice if I I don't know how these things work or whatever, but if people because you know, I think anybody who likes loves David Bowie could take the whole blinking VNA full of stuff.
And there's 90,000 artifacts in the V and A in London. I did speak to a pal who said, if you're a real fan, you've gone and seen that because it's huge and a lot parts of it are free and you know, so on. But I think it's it's still it's still worth a visit. ⁓ but you you've also got to bring someone with you, I think, because if you go on your own, you just look round it pretty quickly and then go, hmm. Whereas you need somebody to go, God, do you remember that? Do you remember that? And it pulls, it immerses you in the experience a lot more.
So that was my day out.
Fraser (1:00:44)
Fascinating. Well, ⁓ we will be back next week, but we've got a podcast extra going out ⁓ tomorrow ⁓ about the local government reform with ⁓ top expert from the ⁓ Build Local Scotland, ⁓ which we recorded yesterday. And perhaps you could say a few words on that just as we trail off.
Les (1:01:03)
Yep. It's ⁓ Dave Watson who is ⁓ who's the chief executive of the Jimmy Reed Foundation. He used to run the ⁓ union ⁓ unison in Scotland. He was an advisor to the Christie Commission that set up all sorts of ⁓ had a brilliant report basically about the future of public services in Scotland that was then cheerfully doofed. ⁓ and basically he is very much ⁓ he he's he's the same point of view as myself on the need for local
More optimistic than me, I would have to say, about the possibilities of something good coming out of what is a bit of a gun of a consultation.
Fraser (1:01:40)
Remarkably so I was very impressed by his can do attitude. I was like, It's gonna be a disaster. well, you know, it's great, you know, nobody's been looking at this for a long time.
Les (1:01:47)
And it's it's bore it's born out of the experience of having been in God knows how many kind of negotiations and everything. And I keep mirr I'm amazed at him because I mean if you'd been subjected to all the kind of things not working out that he has and you still think, Look, there's a possibility we could get something really, you know, radical in here. God love him.
Fraser (1:02:07)
Absolutely. So that'll go out to subscribers ⁓ hopefully tomorrow, ⁓ which everybody will get. ⁓ unless you are Mr. McKenzie of Edinburgh, who has never given us his correct email address and who gets I get an undeliverable notification from every single time, who still ⁓ regularly subscribes to the podcast and I'm sure is a listener. ⁓ so if you'd like to be able to access the podcast extras and get the notification.
Emails, please do drop us a line, Mr. McKenzie, and we will update your details. So it's regular in the inbox.
Les (1:02:42)
there's one last person. I now that I'm here, I'm able to sort of thank, I hope, which was I was up the road ⁓ at a really great play in Wick and came down the road to do one last little bit of filming of an introduction around Patrick Sellers plaque in Inverness that was missed earlier. We're still slowly editing away at this film. It will, it will come out. Anyway, Carol Watt Keel ⁓ came to the rescue and took the phone from me and filmed me.
Trying to deliver this a couple of lines that really just took about 10 seconds. On Halloween, right? How could I have picked a worse day? You know, Halloween used to be nothing to me particularly, but my God, the whole of the middle of Inverness, filled with weed bearings with their sort of skeleton costumes on and everything. And there is a priceless one of I just about got to the end of it amidst quite a sea of noise, and this lad just jumped round behind me, you know, and basically. So it's turned out to be unusable, but.
Fraser (1:03:17)
Yeah.
Les (1:03:40)
Nevertheless, it was fun to try. So thank you, Carol, for stepping in.
Fraser (1:03:45)
Brawl news from Carol. And ⁓ just a shame that ⁓ a a junior Batman ⁓ jumped into shot just at the wrong time. So ⁓ fingers crossed, you get the final one in the bag and get the the edit on the go. Well, on that note, we will see you next week, chums.