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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
[Music]
hello and welcome to the moonshots
podcast episode it's a huge episode it's
a number 73 I'm your co-host Mike
person's and as always I'm joined by mr.
mark Pearson Freeland good morning mark
good morning Mike it is another pretty
sunny day in Sydney isn't it it's okay a
little bit overcast but you know as an
Englishman I quite enjoy this sort of
weather what do you think well I can see
you delighting in this autumnal weather
this full weather of Sydney's roads a
bit unfair I don't think we should show
off too much for those that are still
enduring a slightly chilly winter time
in Europe or America but mark there's a
whole lot of warmth and energy on this
podcast we are going to continue media
innovation series we just did Bob Iger
but for today we are taking a pivot into
someone different someone a bit
challenging for us and someone who has
many many concurrent things with all
those other innovators that we've
studied who is gonna bring us some new
and fresh thinking today I'm glad I got
to introduce him because he shares a
namesake to me it is mr. Mark Cuban he
is a real powerhouse in the media space
a lot of people will go into his career
shortly a lot of people are gonna
recognize him from shark tank as well as
owning the Dallas Mavericks which he
bought in 2000 in fact but he was a real
trailblazer in the media space wasn't he
Mike he set up the foundation of a lot
of the businesses and verticals that I
think we all must take for granted
nowadays and leader especially when they
first came out and it was great digging
into his background because he had so
many different things going on
yeah he's an absolute firecracker my
best for sure isn't he this guy he
brings energy in an abundance stating
he's one of the most energetic audio
clips and characters that we've probably
profiled in fact I mean we've had a lot
of insights from a huge amount well this
is episode 73 so from 72 other
innovators in the past but I got to say
he is charismatic energetic you can
almost hear the passion coming out of
every talk that he does and that smells
a lot of fun to listen to yeah he's he's
got a lot of energy and he's got a lot
of Nass because he was definitely a
pioneer of really streaming media way
back in the day so we're talking in the
1990s with broadcast comm that that
really was a forerunner of podcasting it
was a forerunner of Netflix and he
signed a nice little check with the guys
for several billion dollars at Yahoo
when it was acquired and for those of
you who don't remember that the 90s in
the first com bubble he timed the sale
of broadcast comm beautifully and since
then what I love is he's gone on to do
so many great things that you've
mentioned and what I like about what's
on offer for today is we're gonna get
into themes of energy how to not for a
moment sit on your laurels but to earn
everything is a competitor at heart and
he brings us some new thinking and don't
be put off by his bombastic go-getter
attitude and I think in here we've got a
fundamental entrepreneur who really is a
good guy it might be a bit tough on
Shark Tank but he really is a good guy
so we've got lots to learn will we've
even dug up some fantastic financial
well-being advice from him some tips on
how to save money and to build your own
personal wealth so this is going to be
full of new themes it's going
reinforce some of the old themes that we
continually hear on the show it's gonna
be a wild ride but Before we jump into
my I think we've got to give a shout out
Mart to all of our listeners we've put a
big push and a big invitation out to our
listeners to review the show and to rate
the show and I think we first want to
say thank you because we've got so many
ratings the show has now been rated in
the different podcast apps 92 times
quick note to you all eight left till we
hit the hundred you can do it but we've
also had 24 reviews on all the different
platforms and the reason that this
matters is it helped other new listeners
discover the show and get to share in
this sort of what we call learning out
loud together and I've got a marvel at
some of the usernames mark that our
business like the best I mean this is
this got to be a business in this they
are fantastic we're really grateful that
we met
we really really are and we get so many
lovely emails and you know the reviews
from well I've called out boho snow
pants before but I've got to call out
that name again what a great user name
hang on from Canada no no less yes
exactly exactly and all of you guys you
send these amazing reviews and just to
build on what Mike was saying the more
reviews the more interactions and so on
that we get on these different
podcasting platforms it does get the
word out there and if you guys are
really really diggin what we have to say
we love it thank you so much we just
want to spread the word we don't we want
to give everybody the chance to do this
out loud learning you know this is this
is what we do so the more reviews the
more pushes it's just gonna help other
people find it out so thank you so much
so Mike yeah I have to concur
super grateful let's push for another
eight let's hit the big hundred ratings
in your favorite podcast caching
software and while you all jump into
your to your apps now let's rev them up
let's let's get the energy going ma
where should we start
our Mark Cuban adventure but I hear the
word revving I think of Mark Cuban you
know I can imagine him as it a little
bit like a Tony Robbins you know he I
can imagine him really getting himself
going in the morning so we're gonna
start we've got action-packed show today
we're really getting into the thoughts
or the mindsets of this incredibly
Buddha but also charismatic guy Mark
Cuban so we're gonna start with a little
bit of an intro clip to figure out how
do you stay ahead you know he's an
incredibly figurehead leader in this
space what does he have to say to us how
can I try to stay ahead in my space as
well as everybody else's work like this
someone working 24 hours a day to take
it from you because they are right
whatever
we have the sense we go to work that
we're in we're replaceable right I do a
great job my boss told me I do a good
job people tell me I do a good job and
we forget that there's a lot of people
out there that don't have jobs that are
looking to get your job Frank so we tend
to just get so caught up in ourselves
and not think about the reality around
us that's when you're working for
somebody when it's your business right
oh boy no right this is the most
competitive business there is yeah
there's always someone trying to kick
your ass alright let's go to number two
it doesn't matter if the glass is
half-empty or half-full all that matters
is you are blue the one pouring the
water
[Music]
[Applause]
everybody looks at situations and that's
all is it a good thing is a bad thing
but really what it's about is are you
taking control right are you trying to
control your own destiny are you dude
are you prepared
is it half-full is it half-empty it
doesn't matter you're pouring the water
the wisdom of Mark Cuban would wherever
I see people doing something the way
it's always been done that's just a big
red flag to do because it's not original
right like Henry Ford used to have the
same you know he said if I asked my
customers what they wanted they would
have asked for faster horses right and
it's true right we just know what we
know and when you see people just doing
what they know over and over again all
you got to do is ask yourself what would
I do differently that's what I'm talking
about
yeah I got a there's so much in that
mark this I don't know where to begin I
mean you know whether the glass is half
full or half empty make sure you're the
one pouring it I mean does that not
speak to ownership taking ownership for
your destiny for things that I haven't
and then I love this really practical
thing when looking at ideas like what
would I do different is the question he
asked when he looks at a problem and
thinks about a solution so don't just
follow the herd do something original oh
my gosh mark what stood out for you like
what's what's the takeaway here from
this first entree into the world of my
panic load I think the the pouring the
water is a very very great analogy that
you can follow in your day-to-day life
you know this it's quite empowering at
the same time as you know motivating I
want to be that guy it doesn't matter
whether it's half-full or half-empty I'm
in control and for me trying to you know
gleam and learn from mr. Cuban that
tells me okay well how can I take owner
ship of things how can I take that away
after the show today anything okay well
where in my life in my career could I
have that little bit more control you
know and it isn't because I'm trying to
take over necessarily but it's how do
you keep it on track how do you have
that empowerment to
you know be a master I suppose of that
space in of that entree as am i I asked
myself I
I really think about this ownership
thing because what I noticed myself
sometimes is I can have a tendency to
blame others so I really love the idea
of always having a default to asking
myself how can I take ownership for the
outcome and how can I ensure that I've
done everything not only to ensure that
I get the job done but that those around
me do too
and I think that it's not easy is it
like when you think about taking well
when we get past the idea of how you
should take ownership and is it without
a doubt you can argue that my Cuban
really does take ownership he's a
self-made guy he's always working always
hustling like you don't get the feeling
that he's just enjoying the billions
he's he's making more products building
more businesses every single day for me
I'm really challenging myself as I
listen to this way what does full and
complete ownership look like because I
think that is how much Cuban has done it
he takes the responsibility for himself
for his businesses for his
organization's how do you process this
man this idea of ownership well well
just to build on that before we before I
tried to put it into my own words
it's and something else that we're going
to see in some of these other clips is
the reason why I think some people don't
take ownership and sometimes aren't
willing to step into the arena as our
friend Brenna Brown would say is fear of
failure if I am in control of pouring
the water I I might be afraid that some
of its gonna get spilt and I think what
Mark Cuban is is demonstrating again
we'll go through a lot of these in the
show is it's okay okay because it's just
important that you know what you're
doing you're in control you want to be
original you've got to be that that
that's the innovator mindset you know I
think we've seen in a lot of our
innovators in the part that's
interesting because you know you could
argue that that that first part of what
you're saying in referencing Brene is
like don't get stuck in your regrets
don't get stuck in your failures embrace
them ask yourself what is my story I
mean that's what Michelle Obama did to
like what is my story own it completely
and then then start to make changes and
I love this idea of starting small like
if someone's not exercising much then
just start with one short walk per week
and then the next week do two walks
right don't make it too big and I think
nothing beats having a dream or a vision
for yourself and I think that helps you
take ownership in it and I just want to
do a bit of a sidebar here
I've been obviously watching the last
dance and that which is the Chicago
Bulls six championship documentary on
ESPN and Netflix and the takeaway that I
can share with you mark and with our
listeners is that Michael Jordan easily
the best basketball player in history
Michael Jordan maybe the best athlete in
history but what underlies it is he took
ownership he's when you see this
documentary when you see what
behind it all there is a desire vision
to be the best in the world at
basketball and then there is a
deliberate and purposeful ownership of
that objective like he is not blending
he needed to go through journey to stop
blaming teammates and to bring them into
the process but when he'd learned to be
a team player
it was all on and it was one of the
greatest runs in in basketball history
and what's so powerful is that mark is
teaching us the same thing you have to
own it and I think that is such a
powerful learning out of all the things
that he said make sure you're the one
pouring the glass half-full half-empty
who cares life full of ups and downs go
out and own it and I think there's super
powerful doing it well I think the
inside is once you take that ownership
once we take the ownership of being part
of the Chicago Bulls team or pour in our
glass of water it means that you're
completely in control and that's
something that energy that you put into
things that's what you can control day
to day so even if something was spinning
out of control and it felt a little bit
too much to handle you know pressure in
the public or you know somebody saying
something on social media whatever it
whatever it might be your reaction as
you've you've said Mike in the past your
reaction to things is what you can
control so here's how the passion and
the time that you put into it that's the
energy that you have in your hands and I
love this this I do have ownership I'm
gonna have to go and watch the last
dance and see water
Mockridge our theme lessons that sounds
great we might we might need to do a
last dance special episode so powerful
so what's interesting about Mark Cuban
is he takes that ownership and he
channels that so much into
entrepreneurship and as you can expect
he's got his signature energy ownership
tenacity that go-getter attitude he's
totally totally bringing it to life and
this next clip is him talking about some
three essential rules for
entrepreneurship I'm gonna give you some
quick and dirty rules that every
entrepreneur needs to be aware of number
one sales fears all there's never been a
company in the history of companies
that's ever succeeded without sales
anybody who's ever told you don't worry
about sales you can grow and then worry
about sales later they're lying to you
they will fail you will fail you have to
be able to sell and you know who the
biggest sales person in your company has
to be and you number two selling is not
convincing selling is helping a lot of
people particularly if you don't have a
sales background or this is your first
time in the sales think it's like oh I'm
selling ice to Eskimos right I'm doing
something where I have to convince
somebody to buy something they otherwise
wouldn't buy wrong that has nothing to
do with anything when you're selling
you're helping they'll be the whole
concept of being a great salesperson is
not about who can talk the fastest even
though I am talking kind of fast it's
not about who can talk the most nonsense
it's about taking the time to understand
the needs of the person you're selling
to because if you can create a benefit
for them if you can't show them why your
product is going to be better for them
and their life then the other options
out there or what they were doing before
you are not gonna have a company
the third message is all entrepreneurs
lie to themselves we all go through the
same process we tell ourselves this is
the best everybody loves us
everybody yep no one's gonna not like my
product of course it's not true what I
like to tell people is when you have a
company when you're an entrepreneur you
have to figure out how to kick your own
ass before someone else does it for you
you have to look at your own company and
be brutally honest with yourself and say
what do we do well that's great but also
be honest and say what do we not do well
where our challenges and then how can we
improve them that's a big clip there's a
lot of good tips there just - I'm gonna
propose something Mike and tell me what
you think this mmm I think that all
three of those tips come out of one core
behavior that I think Mark Cuban is is
demonstrating it okay he's talking about
always be selling he's saying it's okay
to sell that's cool you know others
great and don't lies yourself I think
all of those are coming from this
insight of be aware be knowledgeable
have the awareness of your market of
your competitors of your product as well
as your audience be aware of yourself be
aware of your behavior and the way that
you respond to things again similar to
the first clip that we got into it's
about ownership but for me this
awareness I don't know what do you what
do you think I feel like there's there's
something here that that won't let go
for me mmm I I think it it stems in
don't guess no and the way that you know
that you've got something is to get out
there and don't hide from presenting
your solution to a problem and you need
to know
don't guess don't be optimistic you need
to know you're really solving a problem
and I think that this is what he's
challenging us to do and I think
inherently there's a big tension in this
because I think if you are an
entrepreneur you are by nature
optimistic cuz you like creating
something new building something new
rather than maintaining but the
challenge for us all is how to be
objective when you're all going for it
you've invested so much how can you call
yourself out and I think the answer that
he's presenting to us is if you go out
in the world and try and sell it if you
talk to customers you will find the
feedback that you need to make sure that
you actually are providing the right
thing and I think this brutal honesty
that he talks about is so important I
mean if you if you look at Eric Ries who
have featured on the show and Lean
Startup his whole framework is born out
of that he spent several years many
millions of dollars building a product
that nobody wanted and he would concur
with my Cuban so much if he was
listening to this right now he would be
nodding in violent agreement that he was
never brutally honest about the product
that he was building and they managed to
hire a lot of people and spend many tens
of millions of dollars and then realize
oh damn nobody wants it so that's Eric
Ries from the Lean Startup if anyone's
keen for a good book I would very much
head in that direction but I think my
question for you mark is how when you're
working on ideas and and the stuff that
we do for clients is all about ideas
opportunities for new products new
services sometimes new companies how how
do you make your or how do you put a
lens on your work to be brutally honest
and objective and don't get in how do
you avoid getting into the guessing game
and subjectivity because there's a lot
on the line how do you try and keep
yourself honest man yeah for me it all
stems out of subjectivity we're all the
product of you know
our experience and son I think there's
two there's two direct ways that any of
our listeners could
try to replicate during their normal
business the first one is is the easiest
talk to others talk to your colleagues
bounce around ideas if you're thinking
that your point of view is correct maybe
it is a gun talk to somebody else and
express that get that dialogue going get
the conversation started because not
only are you going to enrich your point
of view and your experience by talking
to others because they may illustrate
something that you haven't considered
yet you might actually be challenged
because maybe you've you haven't seen
the whole picture maybe you're only
seeing a part of the whole whole the
other part of it and this is a little
bit more grounded in actionable work
that you can do with your your clients
your partner's and so on is if you have
questions around a product or a campaign
of some kind go and talk to your end
user mmm very very simple we we've done
a lot of work in in our past careers
around talking to customers there's a
lot of good tools online and we could
talk about those later but for for me
it's all around well let's just double
check with the actual people who are
going to end up using that product right
right I think I think you're absolutely
right and I think that you can start to
see that brutal honesty and all that
tenacious energy has led to him you know
building not only a lot of products and
a lot of companies he sold them he's
made a great an enormous fortune it has
to be said over five billion dollars and
obviously he took not only his company
broadcast comm and sold it he then took
the Mavericks to win the NBA Finals so
he's not a one-trick pony
this guy Mark Cuban and we have got some
great tips coming up from him now and I
want everybody to realize that we're not
only Mark Cuban but there's a really
strong way of thinking about money and
well
and finances i which i think is really
powerful which is to frame the idea of
getting financial stability and
well-being as a means to creating
options in life I mean let's be honest
Mark Cuban doesn't need to work anymore
but he chooses to so it cannot be only
about the money and so what you'll see
not only in the previous clips but also
in the future clips there's a real
driver a bigger vision of what he's
trying to do but before we get to all of
those what I really want to do is segue
into some really simple financial advice
from Mark Cuban that I think we can all
take on board because hey if he's made
millions and if he's made billions let's
let's listen now to how he manages his
money and gives us his guide to getting
rich hi I'm Mark Cuban and I'm about to
give you some advice on how to be just a
little bit richer than you are today how
do you get rich rich is all relative so
there's certain things you need to do in
order to put yourself in the best
position to be fresh the first thing you
need to do is live like a student when
you get that first job that's really
cool I remember looking at cars think I
want this car fortunately I still kept
my junker number - you shouldn't use
credit cards I remember a bill
collectors calling me every two minutes
you're better off using a debit card
when you need to just not use cash
number three is save about six months
income if you don't like your job at
some point or you get fired or you have
to move or something goes wrong you know
you're gonna need at least six months
income
then what I would do is probably put it
into the cheapest SPX at standard Poor's
mutual fund that I could find it if
you're a true adventurer and you really
want to throw the Hail Mary
you might take 10% and put it in Bitcoin
or the barium but if you do that you've
got to pretend you've already lost your
money and it's like collecting art it's
like collecting baseball cards it's like
collecting shoes you know something's
worth what somebody else will pay for it
it's a flier but it's so hard to make a
return on regular investments that
you're better off when you see a sale so
for instance if we are hopefully we're
all using toothpaste every day right a
couple of times a day a word goes
through to spit toothpaste every month
whatever it may be you're better off
buying two years worth of toothpaste
when it's on 50% discount that's an
immediate return on your money
I need your reusable as consumables that
you have to have when they're on a huge
sale on Amazon I am because chances are
other prices are going to go up but
that's a real savings that you get to
put in your pocket negotiate using cash
I tell people all the time if you're out
you're gonna take a yoga class and they
want to charge you $30 and say look I
got twenty you know what they're going
to take it
negotiating with cash is a far better
way to get a return on your investment
I used to love to walk through
bookstores when there were bookstores
everywhere and if there's something that
caught my eye and I thought he can give
me one idea to spend $30 to give one
idea that could help repel me make my
businesses better it was a bargain the
only investment guide you'll ever need
by Andrew Tobias used to get me all
fired up I'll read hours every day
because all it takes there's one little
thing to propel you to the next level
nice works when you're nice to people
around you when you're caring when
you're empathetic you're always going to
get more results running a company is
not easy it's hard but the one thing
that you can control in life is your
effort it's a it's a long clip it's full
of really really actionable tips but
it's very good isn't it I mean I'm
getting a lot of things that I can try
and replicate during my day to day life
I can be obviously a little bit more
considerate when it comes to my finances
spending and so on but actually the
three things that I wanted to you know
call out and see how I could try and do
this more regularly are sales I love the
fact that he's bringing up sales it's
very very human it's very very he's like
one of us which is you know great little
inside despite here being able to or the
Dallas Mavericks you know he'll still
look for a good sale on on Amazon books
is a really really key one there so when
we are thinking about all of our
innovators let's use Bill Gates for
example he is famous for the amount of
work or to me home at a time that he
puts into reading books he really
becomes absorbed in all sorts of
different topics and touchpoints and
verticals and it's insight from mark the
books of bargains how good is that
that's something that I think your home
and and do I can immerse myself in in
dozens of books I can just be like a
sponge yeah I mean you just you you
you can you can look at the several tips
that he he gave us there and and each of
them we can we can learn something from
the other thing is you can hear how
complete he is in making progress in
doing new things everything from books
to working hard to oh my gosh when was
the last time you heard a billionaire
talking about the toothpaste being on
sale on amazon.com like seriously my
when when did you hear this right when
never never
so I think he I think here is that he's
opportunity to for he sees growth in
every opportunity and every challenge
that comes by in all parts of his life
and you can tell that he is just
continually propelling himself to the
next thing and everything's viewed by
return on investment I think what you
can see here is the ultimate
entrepreneur the ultimate hustle of what
it takes to build wealth and you're left
with no doubt that he thinks about it
all the time but he's also working on it
all the time and I think that's the
greatest lesson that we can take here
this guy is no bystander he's not a
passenger in life he's firmly in the
driver's seat
and he is for good bad or otherwise he's
going forward isn't he he is he's
unpretentious you know he he knows where
he wants to go this is presumably
behavior that he's been doing ever since
he first got into business selling
garbage bags when he was 12 you know
he's he's being financially stable and
he's demonstrating this behavior of an
innovator which is look for those little
opportunities be aware of those things
around you how every everything adds up
is aware of the market I ultimately you
know what we're seeing in all these
clips so far is he's play
to win oh yeah no he obviously works
hard but he's not afraid to count the
pennies as well he's he totally exposed
on all of it because he he digs it he
loves it
well there you go that's the first half
of the show and we've already taken so
much from it he's being brutally honest
he is looking to make progress
financially in every part of his life
and he's doing it with some great values
of hard work and and learning in his own
special way but more than anything so
far I think what he's given us is this
idea is that you're the one pouring the
water whether it's half-full or
half-empty that glass you are pouring
the water in it and and I think this is
really important particularly at a time
now where there's a lot of uncertainty
around us take a moment take control of
your life this is what we're learning
from Mark Cuban and what we've got
coming up was we've got some great
thoughts on learning we've got some
great thoughts on mentorship and also
some controversial thoughts similar to
that of Cal Newport about following
passion that's all to come in the show
but before we go there mark every show
we make show notes we produce a ton of
content on Instagram and Twitter and
Facebook everywhere where should people
go if they want to launch into the
universe of the moonshots podcast you
can launch your way into the
stratosphere by visiting moonshots dot
IO everywhere everything that we learn
all of our show notes as Mike pointed
out as well as some some useful links
transcriptions and the show itself can
all be found on moonshots dot i/o nice o
get typing hit the internets and you're
gonna find a lot of goodies at moonshots
dot IO so now halfway through the
journey into the world of mister energy
himself the true
maverick Mark Cuban I mean it's not
surprising that his team is the
Mavericks I mean there's no more
appropriate name for a my Cuban
basketball team than the Mavericks now
we're going to enter a sort of a
different space some different ideas
we're going to actually hear from mark
why he actually doesn't believe in
mentorships and that's really
interesting because mentorship is often
a big theme of personal growth and
learning and certainly what we heard in
our previous show is that Bob Iger was
willing to take mentorship either
directly or indirectly he would learn
from the people around him and so it's
really great that we've been able to
find this clip this is Mark Cuban
talking about mentorship I think what
you said a few minutes ago about that
that one of the things you you notice or
the and that you would recoil against is
the idea that that many entrepreneurs
say I need a mentor I need an advisor I
need a coach I need you to tell me what
to do right rather than getting dirty
with it so my question is what role in
your businesses do advisors play and do
you turn to people and when do you do it
who you think are smarter than you I
always try to hire people that are
smarter than me and that complement my
skills skillsets like I'm a ready fire
aim guy and I always try to partner with
people that are very anal and perfection
is to kind of balance me out or have a
skill set that I don't have but once I'm
going I mean I would go to events and
like this and listen and learn and go to
conferences and when I get the
opportunity I'll ask questions but I
can't ever say ever where I've said I'm
gonna call this guy and just see what he
thinks or this woman and just ask that's
just not my style
I mean because at some point I'm gonna
have to be responsible for whatever that
knowledge is
and and and and also I have the benefit
of being in the technology business and
it's it's a benefit because there's
always something new coming and I've
always had the attitude that whatever it
is so if it's virtual reality if it's
the oculus rift it's new to everybody
except the people who invented it and so
um at first base like everybody else and
then it's just a question of effort of
learning it as well as everybody else
so other than going to the originator of
the idea concept product service
whatever I'm tied with everybody else
and having the opportunity to learn it
so I'll just put in the time to learn it
so from a tech perspective and that
that's always served me well because
once you understand these different
products you understand how they fit
together and it also helps you make
decisions and understand what will work
and what won't work I mean you're kind
of the definition of a self-made man but
were there people in your life who you
considered Mentors no really I have one
guy worked by it got a job out of
college with a company called Tronics mm
who wanted to franchise the computer not
the television repair industry didn't
have a long future but it was a job and
guy named Larry manof who just would
tell me the best advice that I probably
ever got because I'm always you know go
go go even back then and it was like
Mark and once you do one thing for me
when we sit in a meeting I want you to
take your pad of paper and your pen and
up in the right-hand corner just write
down the word to listen and to this day
that's what I'll do I'll write down the
word listen to remind me just to shut
the hell up and see what they have to
say but that's as close as I've come
because again I just to me by figuring
it out that creates a platform for me to
go forward it's it's good it's a good
one so the again there's a lot of a lot
of weight in all of these clips that we
have from Mark actually they're full of
good little tips that we can start to
replicate especially that writing listen
in the top of a piece of paper I think
that's that's one that I'm gonna start
doing actually um but for me it's it's
controversial or it's going against what
I think we have
seen in in recent history of gravitating
towards mental ships and looking for
opportunity to learn from others but
actually it's not too surprising hearing
it come from mark this is the guy who's
telling us forget about whether it's
glass half-full or glass half-empty own
little water pour your own and this
ownership again is starting to come
through this responsibility of putting
in the time and learning it yourself
this is an innovator who has been in a
number of different verticals you know
ranging from technology all the way
through sport and it's inspiring or
empowering perhaps to hear somebody
who's as busy as Mark Cuban TV shows as
well he still takes the time to become a
professional at the area that he's
involved in so for me in my day to day
job because occasionally we do go into
different sectors ourselves in business
it's an air to call out that Mark's
making which is don't just look to other
people to be the best knowledge source
in the room don't look for others to
keep you informed you can still do that
but actually put in your own time to go
and learn to go and read to go and be
exposed and I think that's it's a nice
it's kind of pushing us away from this
mentorship model and into a sort of DIY
space what do you think mark I love it
because he's taking nothing for granted
and he's celebrating the qaol new more
craftsman approach and he's like take
full ownership go out and really I love
the fact that he rides listen in the top
of the page and that's basically the
only good mentorship he's received but
what you hear here and I think this is
really important is he's quite prepared
to
things he doesn't believe that he is
entitled to have some Grand Master some
Gandalf like figure come and explain the
world to him he's quite happy to go and
work it out himself and he's hungry to
do it
he's tenacious to go and do it and
frankly he doesn't have time for
mentorship because he's too busy
learning I like this because when I
think about the fact that my one of the
greatest ways that I have learned has
been through doing this show learning
out loud with you with Chad with all of
our lessons that this has been such a
wonderful journey not only to share
ideas but for me to learn myself I'm not
waiting for Mark Cuban to pick up the
phone and call me and explain everything
to me I'm prepared to go out decode
what's happening and ask myself or how
can I do it too
so I think this is really powerful for
everyone listening to the show is
learning is your choice you're in
complete control of it go out and learn
like crazy and I think I've been guilty
of sort of waiting for the ultimate
mentor to come and find me maybe I need
to go find the knowledge and the wisdom
myself and I think we can all do that I
think you're quite right it's very easy
is it waiting is one of the easiest
things we can all do
it's also one of the most dangerous
things we can do right and time time is
get back you know you lose money sure
you can probably earn it back if you're
lucky if you lose your job you can work
harder getting another one and you know
if you if you lose time though that's
the most valuable assets that we have so
it's so using your inner Mark Cuban mark
the question is how do I stay educated
how do I make the effort and be a pro
well for me there we were living at a
time when I would argue it's never been
easier to learn we have dozens of
platforms around us in our day-to-day
world in our pockets even they even
celebrated quite a good one on our last
show if you remember my we did we did in
fact on what where should people go if
they want to get some innovation tools
tools for apparent I I highly recommend
everybody to if they are being inspired
by Mike and I talking about learning in
this episode to go and check out a
product that we make or bottom-up dot IO
it is an online learning platform and
repository full of classes and keynotes
around a lot of different skills
including design thinking rapid
prototyping as well as some case studies
of our favorite businesses that are out
there so using that as a as a perfect
launching off point you can a whole of
our listeners could go to bottom up to
i/o right now sit down and learn
something within the hour they're
bite-sized courses and I could go on to
my podcasts app of choice and find again
a plethora of great content on there
including from bottom up skills and I'd
say that actually learning is only
you're only gonna learn if you take
ownership of your time and put it
towards that thing hmm
when you agree you're in control
yeah yeah and when you're when you're
when you're able to pull this all
together you can do this just like Mark
Cuban because what he does is when he
walks in the room he wants to know that
he's got something to offer this is not
dissimilar to Bob Iger who researches
and prepares for his meetings let's have
a listen now and see how much Cuban
gives people a reason to listen to what
he has to say in terms of being
audacious and being a little boisterous
or being controversial the the first
thing you have to realize is nobody
wants to hear what you have to say until
you give them a reason to want to hear
what you have to say and for me in each
industry that I've been in whether it
was the computer reselling industry and
systems integration industry when I had
Micro solutions we're now into you know
digital privacy and shrinking your
digital footprint was cyberdust each
time I've made the effort to go out and
connect to the media within that
industry whether it was trade
publications or in the case of the
Mavericks ESPN and and television
networks and I've really really worked
hard at trying to you know be as
educated about that industry as I
possibly could be and position myself as
just that being very educated in that
industry from there you know I picked up
the same from a guy named Randy Galloway
who was a radio host in Dallas for a
long time and he always said you know
you always got to check your whole card
and what I used the media to always go
out there
and and put out a hypothesis or put out
an idea or put out a perspective not
being afraid to be wrong knowing that if
I am wrong worst case I'm going to learn
and from that it led to a lot of people
think I was a little bit thinking I was
a little bit crazy because it I would
put out suggestions and thoughts that
made perfect sense to me that other
people thought couldn't possibly be
right but gave me also the opportunity
to hear their feedback to see you know
if I'm right or if I was wrong that
connects very well with the clip that we
were talking about earlier where you can
learn from others by having this
dialogue but also listen and research
you're in product with with customers
what I liked about that though and this
is a good insight that I personally will
take away and put into my career aside
from working hard it's knowing to have
the confidence to go out make the effort
put in the time to learn and be educated
but not to be concerned or worried or
disappointed maybe that's the word if
I'm wrong because if I'm wrong I will
learn hmm yeah
and I think I think that the way to
build on that is to try this is a nice
little manner to try and make every
conversation an opportunity for you to
give a gift hmm maybe it's a tip maybe
it's an idea maybe it's a book to read
imagine if you each meeting you had
today you just started with the idea I'm
gonna listen and then I'm gonna see if I
can give one little bit of helpful
advice and that's what I like to call
like it's a little gift or it's a book
or it's a link to something on the
internet that might help them get the
job done and then imagine if you did
several meetings a day and in each of
those you gave a gift and then every day
of every week you did that imagine
every week 52 weeks of the year every
time you're in a meeting or a
conversation you just had this mindset
of how can I give a gift in this meeting
in this conversation and look it's a
work in progress for me but this is sort
of a really powerful mindset on how to
give people a reason to listen is if you
listen first and then you always
understand and acknowledge what they've
said and then say hmm okay well if
you're trying to do that have you
thought about this have you read this
have you seen this mmm I like that so
make every conversation a gift it's it's
a real challenge actually because I I'm
gonna try and do the same to build on
your point Mike I'm gonna challenge
myself to go into my day-to-day
conversations with with friends family
and colleagues and see how I can give
them a gift well what would be a will be
a format of the gift in your mind that
you've been doing so far is it a like
you say a book recommendation is it a
tip on how to be more productive
I think it can be all of those things
but those all assume that you've done a
diagnosis of a problem together you've
both agreed that the solution looks like
this then you say okay well how are we
going to get that done but sometimes the
gift might be actually reframing the
problem let's say somebody says you know
I'm trying to run a faster mile okay and
they say I've been training so much and
you know I just can't get faster than
five minutes per kilometer okay now they
might have might say do you know any
techniques I could use like is that my
arms or is it my knees or legs or
whatever and I mentioned all this
viscozyme into running at the moment so
what would be interesting is you might
say oh look you should do these things
always look into the horizon always keep
your head up don't disturb over make
sure you strike at the front of the foot
those would all be technique things but
maybe the gift you can give is if you
truly listen to them you might say well
maybe your technique is fine maybe
you're training too much or maybe you're
doing the wrong distances and training
maybe you're not giving your body time
to rest to me that moment is equal to
that of if you give them a book a tip a
link or an idea on a solution sometimes
it's actually reframing the problem and
a lot of the time when I talk to people
I often find they've been talking in
their own head or they've been in an
organization where the groupthink is oh
the problem is this the solution is this
and then if you ask more questions
around the diagnostic if you ask more
questions on hang on what is the real
problem here and then do the classic
Toyota five why's that
the problem why is that the problem and
then why am i and why you often get to
the source of the problem I think your
gift can be helping them reframe the
problem and that you can imagine someone
in that meeting to use the running
analogy might be like oh my gosh I've
never thought about whether I should do
the sequencing of a long run and then
the next day a short run then the next
day rest day I never thought it I've
just been running heaps and heaps and it
just I've maxed out I can't go faster so
then they say well I wonder then they
reframe the question from how do i
improve my arm action when I'm running
to well how do I train better and that
will even though it's another question
that will feel like progress because
they've actually made a step in a new
direction they've reframed the problem
and they can already start to feel oh my
gosh so now I just need to find some
good information on training programs
and how I should sequence the days and
how I should group together the
activities and how I should level them
up that's as much as a gift as a good
book hmm good work I love it it's the
it's the context this it's around so not
just a technique context around what
that problem might be there's somebody's
bring you up with a conversation that
you're having I mean to link it back to
to mr. Mark Cuban you know he's I think
where he would agree with you and your
advice here Mike is to make the effort
to work hard to to listen to that other
person and to think about it from a ok
well I'm in control of how I react to
this individuals conversation how could
I as a potential educated individual in
this scenario add something to it it's
the awareness again coming back in and
that's great I think Mark Cuban would
totally agree with this reframing the
problem again it's a an innovation and
innovators behavior isn't it
yeah and someone who just wants to get
the most other life right
because what's crazy is if every
conversation is a gift then people want
to work with you in terms of your
colleagues
you'll delight and support your family
and friends and you know in the end we
all have clients and then then you
really do become the trusted adviser if
you're continually moving things forward
with good advice and I think when we
look at moving forward in life one of
the themes that Mark is teaching us
about is don't wait around for our
mentor right and what's very related to
that type of thinking is what we've
heard from Cal Newport which is don't
follow your passion and the crazy thing
is as different I mean you couldn't get
two more different people than Cal
Newport who we love and Mark you and who
we love but they intersect at the same
point when around this thought so the
question becomes and Mark Cuban is about
to tell us if we don't follow our
passion what do we follow one of the
great lies of life is follow your
passions everybody tells you follow your
passion follow your passion I used to be
passionate to be a baseball player then
I realized I had a 70 mile-per-hour
fastball I used to be passionate about
being a professional basketball player
then I
had a seven-inch vertical there's a lot
of things I'm passionate about a lot but
you know what the things I ended up
being really good at were the things I
found myself putting an effort into a
lot of people talk about passion but
that's really not what you need to focus
on you really need to evaluate and say
okay where am I putting in my time
because when you look at where you put
in your time when you put in your effort
that tends to be the things that you're
good at and if you put in enough time
you tend to get really good at it and if
you put in enough time and you get
really good I'll give you a little
secret nobody quits anything they're
good at because it's fun to be good it's
fun to be one of the best but in order
to be one of the best you have to put in
effort so don't follow your passions
follow your effort I'm gonna give you
one other secret the one thing in life
that you can control is your effort
hmm and it all comes back around this
idea of ownership this idea of being in
control of areas that you give your
energy towards you know this this is
again you know like say it links back to
our friend Cal it is approaching life in
that slightly different equation and
that's gonna be something that I'm gonna
try an action as well instead of and you
know eventually talk to friends and
colleagues and so on about it too
instead of waiting for an opportunity or
a behavior to come up and that enables
me to be a baseball player or a
basketball player instead I'm gonna
spend my time being proactive I'm gonna
evaluate what I'm enjoying doing and I
love this what you enjoy equals what
you're good at you know you're gonna
spend more time that's right do that
because because there's a there's a
thinking here and that like let's take
the conventional wisdom that Mark Cuban
is breaking here we have heard a lot
over the five step is follow your
passion well listen I like sport but it
doesn't mean like I'm really passionate
about some sports
I really love rugby really enjoy
basketball and cricket but doesn't mean
I should be a professional rugby player
I love music but I chose not to be a
professional DJ and what's really
important is my journey when I was DJing
full-time is I actually lost some of my
passion for the music because it became
a job and not my passion anymore and so
I think what both Mark Cuban and Cao
Newport are challenging us to do is to
find another source which is what you're
good at
what where you like to put your
effort and my question for you is mark
how do you know when you find something
you're good at where do you what's the
marker that all of our listeners can be
looking for when they're asking the same
question I think it comes down to a
desire to spend time doing it so rather
than having this dream that is in the
back of your mind I think what shows
whether you're good at something or
whether you enjoy it is when you have an
opportunity to go and do that thing
let's say it's logging on to bottom-up
do I owe to you know learn something new
about design thinking I think if that
feels
our listeners with a sort of excitement
I think excitement can can be one of
those indicators then that's probably
something that that you enjoy doing I
think ultimately though it comes down to
this inner motivation if you can be if
you can motivate yourself like Marc does
to go out and be educated in different
sectors and different verticals then you
are a learner you're an innovator you're
constantly learning those new skills and
I think that's a good indicator as well
let's let's go deeper though think about
today when do you know if we're not
following our passion and he's saying
follow your effort and your energy how
do I know my well how do you know when
you're actually when you've actually got
something that you should pursue if it's
not passion what does this moment of
goodness look like with energy and
effort
I mean it's a good way to hold one Italy
[Laughter]
I let me give you a third starter I
think
a thing to look for is when you feel a
state of flow when you feel so
comfortable even though the challenge
might be a little bit stressful that
you're not worried about failure you're
keen to succeed you're keen to do
something well you face an objective you
face are deliverable but you relish the
opportunity to be in the moment and
doing it for example when I'm up in the
morning and I'm just writing that's when
I know and there's no interruption and I
just get idea after idea and I'd build
this is a state of flow when even though
despite the energy that's being used
it feels effortless it feels exciting
there's no worry about failure it is
pure desire to enjoy to thrive in the
very moment you know when people talk
about losing themselves I think this is
a marker whenever you feel that
regardless of the objective and the
challenge you feel so comfortable
in the moment so I my question for you
mark is when are the moments that you
feel not daunted by the challenge but
just thoroughly thriving in the moment
think about in your work where do you
feel like what are the moments that
you're really thriving I think getting
under the skin of a problem with a
client perhaps so if there's a
particular challenge that one of our
partners might have I might not know the
answer I think in fact it I probably
won't because ultimately my point of
view might be subjective but I think
it's figuring out okay well what might
be the process to help answer that
question so I think there's a logistics
flow to it you know I quite enjoy
getting into the habit of okay well
where might I start what might that look
like
way to go from A to B and I think that's
where my flow kicks in and I start
getting into that constant it's almost
like you're you're jogging at a pleasant
pace isn't it you know you're Maury it's
constantly being energized it's not
necessarily sprinting like a like a
puppy necessarily instead it's a
constant state of zen-like attention
I suppose so so what I encourage you and
all of our lessons to do is ask yourself
when am I in moments that I feel like
I'm thriving I'm relishing the challenge
it feels effortless even though I'm
working hard
it feels effortless I think that's how
you follow your energy you follow your
effort and you can find this state of
flow and if you pour yourself into those
and look to spend more time create more
opportunities where you're in that state
of flow in fact if you want to take full
Mark Cuban he would say design your day
design your life around those moments
maximize the number of moments where
you're putting effort and energy into
the things that create a set of flow but
you feel like you're thriving and I
think what's so important is to avoid
the trap of I like music and sport so
I'm gonna be a DJ at night and a
sportsman during the day wrong wrong
wrong
follow your effort follow your energy oh
my gosh matter we are we are getting
like serious high-level learnings from
Mark Cuban the maverick himself I mean
who we are getting it because this guy
is really serving it all up on the show
today we know that he for all of these
maverick energy he starts every meeting
writing listen and he's not waiting for
others to teach him he will teach
himself and he's gonna take ownership
for the outcome
mark that's a big baby show and actually
I have a feeling that we could probably
carry on talking about Mark Cuban you
know he said such a busy career sure but
actually all the lessons that we've
talked about I think I think we could go
on I mean the thing that I'm gonna take
away personally is apart from obviously
as you say that the challenge of when do
I get into a good state of flow is how
can I be in control of my time how can I
own the opportunity to learn to have
something to offer to every meeting and
you know born out of your your new
behavior Mike of giving a gift I think
that's a nice way to ground it so I'm
gonna work from now on
with that in my mind fantastic fantastic
and ladies and gentlemen if you thought
our media innovation series had come to
an end you're wrong because we have one
more and this is going to potentially be
the biggest we're going to go into the
world of Netflix and listen to their
founder CEO Reed Hastings in our next
show and I love Reed Hastings he has not
only done great stuff with technology
not only has he created one of the
greatest new media empires and recent
times but he is also hadn't done it
through a huge focus on culture in the
organization and I think we have a lot
to learn in the next road episode 74
where we wrap up our media innovation
series with Reed Hastings are you fired
up for Reed mark I am I'm very very
fired up Reed's gonna be a particularly
interesting one to get into I know he's
a little bit involved in schools and
politics as well and and I'm sure he's
got a wealth of stuff that we can gleam
and learn from him so cat meowing
fantastic well there you have it ladies
and gentlemen what a show a surprise
maverick a little bit out of left field
teaching us that
really comes down to following your
effort and just taking ownership and
working hard every single day mark I
want to thank you for all your help
pulling the show together and being here
together with me to learn out loud to
share everything we can from these great
innovators and I can't wait till the
next one mark thank you to you thank you
to all our listeners that is a wrap of
the moonshots podcast