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10 minutes of expert insights every weekday. Your morning ritual for staying ahead in retail media.
Edited version
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[00:00:00] Kiri Masters: Last Thursday, Ace Hardware rented out Wrigley Field in Chicago and made its case for retail media dollars. Now, I wasn't there, but my friend Tom Limongello, the host of the Middlemen [00:00:15] podcast, was. So I asked him for the download.
[00:00:19]
[00:00:20] Kiri Masters: Now the event was Redvest Media's first upfront, and Redvest is Ace Hardware's retail media network, about a year [00:00:30] old now, run by Molly Gelm, who I have profiled here in the past. Now the announcements from the event are all out in press releases, so I'm not going to read all of those out. What I wanted from Tom [00:00:45] was the room, who Ace put on the stage and what advertisers were saying in the hallways afterwards.
[00:00:54] So here are five pieces of that conversation, starting with the [00:01:00] programming itself, who Redvest chose to put up on stage or on the field. And Tom shares how the man who stood up and made the really compelling growth argument for advertising in Ace runs [00:01:15] merchandising and sales. He doesn't work for the media org at all.
[00:01:20] Let's listen
[00:01:21] Kiri: And so on the topic of, of e- uh, executives outside of the media org, this is a really interesting point because I
[00:01:29] Tom Limongello: [00:01:30] Угу
[00:01:32] Kiri: that, um, the, the media org alone couldn't communicate, one of them being how, uh, important the media, [00:01:45] proposition is to the core business and how it is integrated.
[00:01:48] You mentioned the chief merchant being there as well. What else did you pick up that wasn't like an overt sort of thing that they said, but something that was maybe telegraphed through who was there, [00:02:00] the programming, um, any sort of like subtext that you picked up from those other executives?
[00:02:07] Tom Limongello: Yeah, there were definitely some subtexts. I mean, I think in terms of, you know, understanding how the merchants play a role, there was very [00:02:15] directly explained, uh, collaboration that I didn't expect to see there, which was that there is a concept of a retailer reach program, which is enabling, um, those brands that are participating in retail media to get help with distribution in [00:02:30] stores.
[00:02:30] Now, if you think about Ace, they are a five thousand three hundred store chain in the US, um, with two thousand eight hundred owners. And so it's a very entrepreneurial, uh, co-op model. And so [00:02:45] one of the challenges for both merchandising and retail media is how do you get into enough stores? And so I think that they have that pain point a little more strongly than most retailers do.
[00:02:56] And so I think they've had to innovate in that way, and it's led to collaboration [00:03:00] between merchants and retail media. So I think that's, that's one area. Um, in terms of subtext, uh, I would say that the most interesting area of the innovation for me was hearing Molly, who has a [00:03:15] background in data and insights, talk about what she was doing on the audience, uh, product.
[00:03:21] And what she has offered up is that she works with Epsilon, and Epsilon's standard product is a, uh, AI-based SKU [00:03:30] targeting system, um, which is different from when I knew Epsilon back in the Quotient days. So they were, you know, they were kinda like everybody else that had sort of static audiences that were used for six months to two years.
[00:03:41] Um, but recently it's become, uh, a standard product [00:03:45] to just use AI and set it and forget it. Um, what I saw Molly do here was introduce, um... And, you know, I don't know if this was based on advertiser request, but she introduced brand audiences and custom audiences, and there was a whole, uh, [00:04:00] slide which showed it was like DIY and grilling and, you know, I can give you the list, uh, of all the, the audiences that you can use.
[00:04:07] But that, I think, enables better test and learn.
[00:04:10]
[00:04:11] Kiri: Anything else from the sort of the, the [00:04:15] programming that was telegraphed, uh, not necessarily overtly, but the... You mentioned the chief growth officer. What, what is their sort of role in, um, in, in integrating with the [00:04:30] media org?
[00:04:31] Tom Limongello: So yeah, it was interesting. I asked this of, of Molly, and I don't know if I have a clear answer, but from what-- from listening to him talk, he was kind of chief historian and chief morale officer to me because he was... [00:04:45] His, his speech w- talked about, I mean, he basically made parallels to Wrigley and the Lovable Losers, and the fact that there was a stadium that everybody loved to go to, but until they did a facelift and created some digital screen, uh, signage in the outfield and the, the strip [00:05:00] LEDs along the, the decks, um, you know, they weren't able to attract advertising or they weren't e-able to sort of get enough excitement and then get enough investment in the team to, to win World Series.
[00:05:11] Well, the same thing, uh, you know, he talked about with [00:05:15] Ace. A lot of people generally loved Ace, but they don't shop there anymore, and that was sort of a few years ago. And the numbers that he gave were, we spent thirty million in en-enterprise marketing, I don't know how, however many years ago it was, up to [00:05:30] now two hundred and forty.
[00:05:31] And then we've changed our top line to three bill- from three billion to ten billion as a result. So I think it was kind of like, we're investing, so you should invest kind of message. And I think, you know, I, I think a lot of the retailers do that. You know, Albertsons does BOGOs [00:05:45] for their, uh, retail media program to say, "Hey, we've got, you know, skin in the game as well."
[00:05:50] So I think that's, you know, the chief growth officer is there, I think, to say where the ship is, is sailing.
[00:05:57] Kiri: point.
[00:05:57] Tom Limongello: That's my best guess.
[00:05:58] Kiri: wanna back a winner [00:06:00] as it pertains to, you know, where they're being sold. I
[00:06:02] Tom Limongello: Yeah
[00:06:03] Kiri: with a, um, an agency, uh, person the other day and, and I was asking which, you know, which retailers are doing a great job that you're excited about, and they called out a couple where the, you [00:06:15] know, the, the, the tech is good, the ad targeting is good, the reporting's good, so all of, all of the fundamentals, but they are in categories that are growing really quickly. And so if you're, if you're a brand trying to figure out [00:06:30] al- allocation, of course, you know, the, the measurement, the audiences, the capabilities of that RMN are important, but also is it just growing overall? So that is going to make my job a lot [00:06:45] easier if there's some tailwinds pushing that category or if that retailer is just like really y- you know, seeing a revival or a turnaround or a lot of growth, then that's a pretty easy bet to place
[00:06:59] Tom Limongello: Yes. And I think [00:07:00] that also lends itself to, uh, the theme of this, and I think a lot of other retailers are talking this way as well, but it, it was basically trust. Or do you trust us to take you on this journey? 'Cause I think there's a lot of people who came in [00:07:15] who were at brands, you know, they make paint rollers, so they don't actually ma- You know, it's not Benjamin Moore, it's somebody who's smaller and is, uh, you know, sort of an add-on purchase where they don't have the brand rec- uh, recognition.
[00:07:25] Um, how do I go back to this small, privately owned company and tell them that they need [00:07:30] to do this? Um, and, you know, the sellers of those brands, or, you know, your, your, your brand like a, a Vornado or, uh, even Weber Grills within, um, uh, you know, the Ace Hardware segment might be run by [00:07:45] the brand itself, but it might be run by a broker or, you know, a, a sales agent for many brands.
[00:07:50] And when it's their money, their commission is on the line if you're spending more. So how do you get them to get comfortable with this? Doesn't mean that they don't wanna do it, they just, there, there [00:08:00] are things that they need to think about, so.
[00:08:01]
[00:08:03] Kiri: What would you say was sort of the balance from the day of, um, sort of trying to, trying to, uh, sell more into bigger brands versus trying to tap more into the smaller brand and activate [00:08:15] them?
[00:08:16] Tom Limongello: I mean, I think they've only been at this a year, so give them some time in that sense. Uh, you know, there was-- there were people like, you know, Benjamin Moore I talked to, and they had just ju- uh, joined the program in July, and that was [00:08:30] because somebody who had worked at Ace before went to Benjamin Moore.
[00:08:32] So, you know, sometimes it's just, you know, making sure you have the right people in place or getting lucky. Um, and so it's not as much, oh, you know, is the proposition sound? It's [00:08:45] really just sort of like, hey, it wasn't the highest priority. So I think there's, on the big brands, it's kind of like the timing.
[00:08:50] 'Cause the sa- you know, the same is true of PepsiCo. Um, you know, the SodaStream guy was up there on a panel talking about how they were doing, um, I think, you know, a lot of [00:09:00] online, very surgical targeting, uh, for SodaStream, and I think that that was interesting. But it would be interesting to hear from him, if we had a follow-up conversation, what would get you to do more than just say, you know, sponsored search, uh, advertising.
[00:09:13] Um, so I think that, [00:09:15] um, that's interesting. Now, in terms of other advertisers, uh, before we get into the little ones, um, some of the other big advertisers had some interest-- uh, interesting reactions to the innovation. So one of the things that Molly introduced was, uh, weather targeting, and I was kinda [00:09:30] like, "All right.
[00:09:32] That sounds like twenty eighteen to me, um, you know, maybe twenty fifteen." And I was like, "Okay." And then I was so shocked that, like, both big and small advertisers were really excited about [00:09:45] it. And, you know, talked to Rust-Oleum. Ally Fowler over there is saying, "Yeah, you can't use Rust-Oleum in January, so we really need this."
[00:09:53] And it was like, okay. Uh, and, you know, now I think about it, the push for grilling and lawn [00:10:00] care with Ace, you know, it's a very entertainment sort of fo- It's not exactly home improvement. It is this sort of discretionary thing. I'll spend it if it makes sense. And so, yeah, I think that, you know, certain innovations that we think are silly outside of, [00:10:15] you know, maybe over-the-counter drugs and grocery, um, for, you know, Zyrtec or something like that, um, are really important to this new segment.
[00:10:23] And I think that's one of the bigger things is this is a new segment of advertisers. Whether you think they're sophisticated or not, [00:10:30] they may be sophisticated in certain ways, but they definitely haven't had the pedigree of a Mondelez or a Coke or Pepsi or P&G and Unilever in terms of dealing with all this, and they have lots of questions about measurement.
[00:10:42] They have lots of questions about, are these things gonna [00:10:45] work? And so I think this is-- That's why I said sort of it's only been a year, um, and I think they're running really fast to try to, you know, fill the gaps in, in capabilities. But there's probably just as much work that needs to be done on selling in the proposition. [00:11:00] your advertisers can't wait weeks for audiences. GrowthLoop's Composable Commerce Media solution helps media teams [00:11:15] turn first-party data into high-value audiences, launch campaigns faster, and prove what's working across every channel. Learn how retail media leaders at Costco, Fanatics, and [00:11:30] Gopuff use GrowthLoop to create highly segmented audiences and deliver stronger results for their brand partners.
[00:11:39] Kiri Masters: Visit go.growthloop.com/breakfast. That [00:11:45] is go.growthloop.com/breakfast
[00:11:51] Kiri: well, speaking of Alison at Rust-Oleum, I, I did reach out to her and asked her for what, what her big sort of insights and
[00:11:59] Tom Limongello: Oh, cool[00:12:00]
[00:12:00] Kiri: were and, and so she did mention, um, that partnership with Influential and that influencers are very important
[00:12:08] Tom Limongello: Oh, good
[00:12:09] Kiri: space. She also mentioned, um, the partnership with DoorDash [00:12:15] advertising, which, um, yeah.
[00:12:18] Tom Limongello: talk about that yet. Yeah So that was great for a couple reasons. One, JR is hilarious to listen to. You probably heard him at Cannes, um, talking about how there was like a bird in his gutters, and he was like pitting [00:12:30] one, one retailer against another as to who's gonna get it on DoorDash faster.
[00:12:34] Um, he had similar stories like that here, where he-- there was a hailstorm in the Dakotas and, like, he needed, he needed Dap white caulk for his [00:12:45] pool or s- I don't even know. It-- like, I'm not handy enough to even know what he was talking about. But he, uh, talked about, you know, the, the DoorDash partnership, and basically there were some really interesting stats there.
[00:12:57] Um, 90% of the DoorDash [00:13:00] customers that come through this Ace channel, the Ace... You know, somebody actually goes in and on DoorDash, looks inside Ace's storefront, um, those customers, 90% are new to Ace. So... And it's all generally Gen Z. [00:13:15] And so, you know, just from that, I think it, it breathes a lot of life into, uh, Ace's consumer demographics.
[00:13:23] Um, so that I think that's, that's an interesting part in and of itself
[00:13:27] Kiri: And so talk me through how that w- what, what is [00:13:30] the, what is the actual, what was the announcement?
[00:13:33] Tom Limongello: so I think that the announcement is similar to what we saw at like Dollar General, which is that they have the ability to, um, you know, you go into a DoorDash app and you can get [00:13:45] products delivered. And so Molly, part of what she talked about was like, you know, if you've already taken a trip and you didn't buy enough, get it delivered.
[00:13:53] Or like, you know, if somebody is just, you know, they wouldn't have been a customer because it's too far of a walk or something. Like, there's [00:14:00] all sorts of reasons why. Or just they look- they're looking for something and they're not an A's customer, 90% of those people, it's, it's new. They're, it's total customer acquisition for them
[00:14:10] Kiri: I think that they've had that, um, I, I believe that they have had [00:14:15] a partnership with DoorDash for, for some time to an e- you know, that is ultimately their sort of same-day delivery mechanism which is really smart because like said,
[00:14:25] Tom Limongello: Yeah
[00:14:26] Kiri: that is something that's only within reach for the largest retailers.
[00:14:29]
[00:14:30] Tom Limongello: So I think I've been, you know, giving you little tidbits of what I was hearing from the crowd. I think that, um, generally there was... I, I think, you know, renting out Wrigley Field and getting people all there [00:14:45] together and hearing from, you know, it's almost like a church congregation. You know, you get to hear from-
[00:14:50] Kiri: definitely part of the
[00:14:51] Tom Limongello: Yeah.
[00:14:51] Kiri: I think, is like it at a place or, or create an experience that people are gonna be excited to go to rather than, like, a [00:15:00] conference center in, don't know, Vegas or
[00:15:03] Tom Limongello: Right
[00:15:04] Kiri: done a million times before
[00:15:05] Tom Limongello: it's enough, you know, it's enough of a momentum push to get people to very quickly absorb the things that they're [00:15:15] trying to say, "Hey, here..."
[00:15:16] Like, "We heard you over the last year. Here are the things that we're building out to make it even better." And like, you know, if you were on the fence, now it's, now is the time, now is the time. And so I think that's the type of thing that happens when you do an all-hands type of [00:15:30] meeting. Um, how else can you do-- You know, like there were...
[00:15:35] I, I guess the question is what is the, what is the alternative? Well, the alternative in the past has been
[00:15:40] Kiri: Yep
[00:15:41] Tom Limongello: days, right? But those are considered generally like, you know, [00:15:45] you gotta put your armor on, um, and it's, you know, the-- there's the-- it's, it's less of, you know, "Hey, believe in us." It's more like, "Okay, show us why you're a cool brand."
[00:15:56] It's almost like you're auditioning. Um, so I think that there is a real [00:16:00] difference, um, when the retailer's the buyer versus when the retailer's the seller
[00:16:04] Kiri: what you mean by at the vendor dames- days you need to put your armor on. Are you talking about as a brand you're gonna get kind of pushed and squeezed and cajoled, or as[00:16:15]
[00:16:16] Tom Limongello: I mean, you know, to be honest, I heard-- I've heard stories about it. I haven't done one, and so I've always heard that, you know, it's, it's something where the retailer is, um, you know, opening the door, but [00:16:30] there's, you know, a lot of it, it... I think it's a lot of, like, peer pressure and expectation about what is the brand gonna do for the retailer or what are they gonna do for our consumers?
[00:16:39] And I think that, you know... I, I could be wrong. I would, I would love to hear more and I would love to go to vendor days. I, I actually think [00:16:45] that, um, you know, the future of some of the stuff that we do should be around upfronts, vendor days, going to the retailer. You know, uh, I love going to conferences where we get to meet up with all the people who are in the industry.
[00:16:59] Um, you [00:17:00] know, may- maybe not, maybe not Vegas. You know, Miami's been fun. Maybe LA. New York is cool. But, um, but it's, you know... One of the things when I came back from living in China, I was like, "I wanna do stuff in Cincinnati, in Kansas City, in random places that I never did, even though [00:17:15] I'm an American."
[00:17:15]
[00:17:16] Kiri: the frequent topic of conversation among industry people, this would be the same in an- any industry, is which events are you going to? And when I speak with our re- retailer side, RMN people, there's [00:17:30] always this debate. Are we gonna be at s- like CES versus NRF? ShopTalk versus, you know, there's, and there, there's all these events around the same time of the year, and everyone is making a trade-off decision. They're like, "I would like to go to this one, but I can't 'cause I'm doing [00:17:45] that one." There is a
[00:17:46] Tom Limongello: Yeah
[00:17:46] Kiri: and f- I, I understand also, um, as a retailer, having the spaciousness of being able to con- not control the narrative, but be- say all the things that you really wanna [00:18:00] get across going to an event
[00:18:03] Tom Limongello: Yeah
[00:18:03] Kiri: a booth that people may or may not come to, and, like, meetings that people may or may not show up to, and a panel that you're on that you may or may not be able to say the thing that you [00:18:15] really wanna put across w- in as much time as you need to. So I
[00:18:19] Tom Limongello: Right
[00:18:19] Kiri: also see, like, this event at Wrigley Field, I'm sure it cost, you know, it was, it was pretty pricey to put on, took a lot of time to organize, but could be totally worth it [00:18:30] because the retailer can m- maybe get more value out of doing that than going to three industry events and paying, you know, hundreds of thousands of
[00:18:40] Tom Limongello: Right
[00:18:40] Kiri: to get a, fly everyone out and all things considered.
[00:18:44] Those are [00:18:45] very expensive events just to attend as a, as a sponsor and, and, and g- get out there. So it might be a good value exchange to actually put on a, a big event like this, even though it would be pretty [00:19:00] pricey.
[00:19:00] Tom Limongello: I would agree. Um, but, uh, yes, anytime anybody wants to do things at baseball stadiums, I'm gonna go
[00:19:06]
[00:19:07] Kiri Masters: So Tom's own episode, an interview with Maulik Jalm of Redverse Media is out now on his [00:19:15] podcast, The Middlemen Podcast. So certainly go to that one to listen to the full operator's side of the discussion.
[00:19:24] Now I am here for these upfronts. I mean, not physically here, um, that's why [00:19:30] I have my mate Tom on the ground to tell me what actually happened But just figuratively, I talk a lot about how retailers need to differentiate their media network offerings, position themselves in a more differentiated way
[00:19:44] because let's [00:19:45] face it, they have been used to being the buyers for the longest time and not actually marketing themselves to advertisers. This is a unique value exchange for them. And hey, presto, here we are. It's 2026. [00:20:00] Some of these retailers are putting on an actual real show and humanizing their ad offerings and demonstrating how it all fits in to the retailer's broader ecosystem, and their merchant organization [00:20:15] is on board as well.
[00:20:16] I love it. Thanks for listening, and I'll catch you tomorrow
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