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In the Mix is a podcast dedicated to the people, projects, and innovations shaping the masonry industry—block by block, brick by brick.
Hosted by Adam Hutchinson, Executive Director and professional engineer, this show brings together architects, engineers, contractors, and industry leaders to explore how masonry drives resilient, sustainable, and high-performance building design.
Each episode breaks down real-world applications of masonry construction, from structural integrity and fire resistance to long-term durability and environmental impact. You’ll hear behind-the-scenes insights, industry challenges, and practical conversations that matter to those designing, building, and specifying with masonry.
If you’re passionate about stronger buildings, smarter construction, and advancing masonry in modern design—this is your place to get in the mix.
Join us in supporting the Masonry Industry mission: https://masonryinstitute.com/in-the-mix
2. Ron Adams
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[00:00:00] Welcome to In the Mix, the show that puts Masonry in the spotlight. Block by block. Brick by brick. I'm your host, Adam Hutchinson, executive director, professional engineer, industry advocate, and believer in the power of resilient building design. Every week I sit down with architects, engineers, contractors, and building.
Donors to break down how masonry makes our community stronger, safer, and more resilient. We're here to share stories, tackle the tough questions and help you see what's possible when we build better together. Let's get in the mix.
On today's episode of In the Mix, we're gonna be talking to Ron Adams. He is the president and owner of Cascade [00:01:00] Construction. He's the current president of the Washington State Conference of Mason Contractors. We're gonna be talking about his goal and opportunity to help promote and move the industry forward, both from a contractor standpoint as well as a a member, an active member in national committees.
We're gonna talk about the MCAA Education Foundation a little bit. And also, just get to know who he is, what he means for the industry, and where he sees the masonry industry go from here. We also talk about the history of masonry and how we went from 6 billion block laid per year down to a billion block last year.
It might be a little depressing, but it's needed. We have to educate everybody. And we do that by sitting together and talking about what masonry industry is, what it means to architects, engineers, and [00:02:00] contractors. And I hope you enjoy. Now let's get in the mix. I.
welcome. Today we have Ron Adams with the Cascade Construction Company. He is the president of the Washington State Conference of Mason Contractors. And a great friend of mine for the masonry industry and we're happy to have him. so go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do in the masonry industry.
Thanks for having me, Adam. I'm the president of Cascade Construction. I also serve as the president of the Washington State Conference of Mason Contractors which is our local association for contractors and advocate for contractors and contractor certification and support union Masonry contractors in the Pacific Northwest.
What about your, commitments to MCAA and other national committees. Yeah, so, so on top of the local stuff, I'm, I also sit on I'm the regional Vice president for the Mason Contractor Association of America. And then I also sit on the rack which is for CMU checkoff for the region five.
Yeah. So a little bit more about the rack. So that is the [00:03:00] CME checkoff. We get 1 cent from every block Yep. That goes to a national fund. Yep. Some of it comes off the top for admin fees. And then half of what's left goes to the national program and then half of our region's funds comes back to our region.
So that's the West Coast is region five, Western United States. Yeah. Yep. So it covers everything from Colorado West, minus Arizona. Pretty much. It's the way I look at it. Yeah. It's awesome to serve on that with you. Yep. I really appreciate it. 'cause it's nice to have, we've been on it together from the beginning, so, yeah.
Yeah. And, and it's nice to have that. That contractor view from the producer view as well. Right. So, and then since I've kind of taken over the whole masonry industry here in the northwest, it's kind of nice to, to work with the contractors a little bit more, go out to projects a little bit more just have that open invite.
It feels a lot more well and cohesive. And there was, you know, there's a lot of good things that we're doing. There was some seismic design stuff that came up that we were able to fund through our rack here at our last meeting. Yeah. You know, that that's something that we [00:04:00] had a pot of money to be able to fund that we wouldn't have had before we had CMU checkoff.
Yeah. And there's, there's just a lot of good things that are coming out of that. There's design programs that are coming out of it. There's educational programs at universities are coming out of it. And I think that it's gonna be a really positive thing for the mason industry and the design community.
And the end user community because they're gonna be able to see more masonry and have, have easier access to design with masonry for the designers. Yeah. So we'll be talking a little bit about what happened in the past, what's going on presently, and then a little bit of look at the future forecast of masonry as well.
But I think this checkoff is kind of one of those ways that we can help produce and, and publish those programs That need to be done. Right. Right. And for our region, we get about 380 grand a year to spend. Yeah. Based on our current amount of production. We're looking to get that up about five or 6% in the next couple years.
Yeah, it's a little bit low right now, but yeah, I think that's just a, an [00:05:00] education aspect of just Right. Getting it out there and getting architects and engineers comfortable with designing with Masonry, so. Absolutely. All right, so looking back, so. How did you get into the Mason registry? It was a family business.
Yeah. You know, my my great-grandfather was a bricklayer. My grandfather was a hot carrier and a little side story. It was pretty fun. Last summer I went back to Washington, DC and met with both the labor unions and when I got back my mom gave me a file of stuff. And it had my grandfather's I think it was a 35 year certificate from the union in there for, for completion.
So I just, a couple days I got back, so I said I did a copy of it and we hung it up in our office and then I sent that off to the guys at the Union says, see, I told you guys I would, we've been around for a long time. And then you know, my dad grew up as a odd carrier. My uncle was a bricklayer. And you know, when they decided to start getting into.
Doing more masonry work and, and into masonry specifically, you know, 25, 26 years ago I was, you know. A [00:06:00] young guy. And so I got involved then and have been, been involved in really leading the company from that point forward through our journey at Masonry. So did you spend much time on the bricklaying side or was it mostly on the business side?
Mostly on the business side. Hey, that's okay. Right. It gives us a good insight when we interview people that have done everything from the design side to the business side, to laying it, dealing with all of the construction issues. I mean, recently we went out to a job site. North of Port Angeles or, or up in that peninsula area.
Yeah. And it was nice to see it just get up on the ladder or get up on a, yeah. A piece of equipment, scrape off some mortar and make it look good. Yeah. Right. And, having that knowledge is something that a lot of people don't know about. Yeah. I've gathered a lot of information and, and yeah, and knowledge in 25 years of being around the business and watching bricklayers and we did something really cool within our company here about two, three weeks ago. We had a little brick layer 50, and so spinning off of, okay, spinning off of the brick layer 500 and then.
Earlier this year we [00:07:00] did the bricklayer 5,000. Yeah. Which was a full eight hours of, of Brick laying And we did something to get our office staff and our warehouse staff and all our non-field people Yeah. Involved. And so we did a little 20 minute challenge, 50 brick. And so. That was fun.
So we got out and, and laid some brick and we had our, you know, our controller and our admin people, and our truck drivers and our mechanics. And people that never touched the product actually put a tr in their hands. Hands. And we had our bricklayers, not carriers helping us. And it was a lot of fun.
So, yeah, that's a lot of fun. I, I remember going to the mutual materials one a couple months ago now. Yep. That was a lot of fun to see the president of the company Right. Actually laying brick for the first time, or, or maybe right. Yeah, maybe in a couple years, right? Where obviously she's been around the product, right?
But. Getting your hands dirty and, and seeing the kids out there doing it too. Right. It was great. It was great to see, see Kendall and, and all the mutual team out there doing that. Yeah. And that, that was kind of, you know, a little bit of our inspiration to do it. But also some of our office staff came up to the brick LA [00:08:00] 5,000 in March, and they saw that and they were like, yeah, that looks really fun.
And, and you know, and, and I know that, that Fred and Garrett were probably out there, you know. Dying and, and hurting and in pain and Oh, I'm sure, you know, they were, they were like, that looks like fun. So then as we've done career fairs and we've done other things, it was kind of one of, it was something we wanted to give 'em the experience of being able to do.
Yeah. So just a little bit of background for the listeners and viewers. So the brick layer 500, so that is put on by spec mix every year, put on by spec mix. Right. There's a, there's regional events and then there's the national one down at Vegas. Regional. Yeah, regional. Everybody that wins a regional goes to go to Las Vegas to compete on a national level.
But yeah, so, we've got the bricklayer 500, the regional events, the bricklayer 500 for the national event at World of Concrete. And then this year we actually put on the bricklayer 5,000, which was just to see if we could lay 5,000 brick in. A day. Yeah. Single workday. Right. So Garrett, so, so Garrett.
Garrett went to the bricklayer 500 this year and, and [00:09:00] competed nationally. And, and he didn't win. And then Yep. He, he got to thinking about, you know, world records and what's, you know, how much is the most brick laid in a day and what could be done and Yeah. If he could lay five, you know, 5,000, 5,000 in a day.
And so it's just crazy. It was, it was, it was a big number and, and it was a pretty cool event to be part of and, and help. Help put on and facilitate the day of and stuff. And it was pretty cool to watch him. And he, he laid 5,000 brick that day. Yeah. And, and competed with three time spec mix for clarify.
500. Fred Campbell came up to challenge him, and and they went head, Fred won. Fred. Fred, Fred actually won after the deductions. But Garrett. Garrett, got more units on the wall. Garrett had 5,095 units on the wall. Yep, yep. Which is just crazy to think about and, yep. And most of 'em I'd say looked pretty good.
Yeah. Yeah. Fred looked like he was hurting a little bit towards the end. Yeah. So Garrett, so it's nice to know that even the old and the young guys [00:10:00] still hurt after 5,000 brick. They were both, they were both hurt after 5,000 brick. But, you know, you think, you think about that. And then a brick weighs what, three, four pounds a piece.
So yeah. 5,000 bricks lift and, you know, 15,000 pounds. 20,000 pounds in a day. Prob probably realistically with the mortar, those guys probably laid. Lifted between 20 to 30,000 pounds that day. That's insane. Or, or more that, that's a lot of, a lot of movement. That's a lot. Right. And that was really just a, just, Hey, can we do something like this?
Right. And I think. Moving forward, we're gonna try and have bracketed events where not every mason that's competing that day is gonna lay the 5,000 bricks, but at the end of the day, somebody might lay 4,000 bricks during the competition. Well, I think we're gonna make some changes. I think we're gonna get 5,000 again, and I think, I think we got, I think we got a few ideas to, to make it easier for, for next year.
I'm not gonna reveal 'em now. Yep. But and not easier, but, but just, a better contest. Yeah. But we'll, we'll just probably start working on that in the next few months. Yeah. That that'll be fun to help organize too. So going back a little bit, [00:11:00] so Masonry was crazy busy in the nineties. Yeah.
Right. So busy. And obviously that's like 20, well, 25 years. 2000 was 25 years ago, right? Years ago, 30 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Masonry was at its peak. Yep. What changed? You know, I, I don't know. I got into the business in 2000 and, and I'm not sure what, what's necessarily changed. We've seen less wall space of masonry, and when we reduce the wall space of masonry we increase the cost of masonry.
Right. You know, if we look at this, this wall behind us, and it's a beautiful wall, right? But it's a lot more expensive to lay two or three brick in a, in a row, right. Than it is to lay an entire wall. And I think, you know, yeah. Part of the, the brick layer 5,000 was to show that when we have wide open spaces, we can go, we can produce, and you know, a lot of times unfortunately, masonry, especially in the veneer side, gets replaced by something that is a metal panel or something, right? Because there's an illusion that it's cheaper, there's an [00:12:00] illusion that it can go faster. And that might not necessarily be the case when, when we open the wall up and you know, I think we've seen masonry projects going from full height to a Wayne's coat.
Well, when you look at costs of transitions and every time you transition from one product to another, you've got a flashing, you've got something else going on and just, well, and you're mixing trades too, and schedules and you're, you're trades and schedule and, and you know, it takes the same amount of time to put on the base flashing of a wall to go up 20 feet as it does to go up.
Four feet. Yeah. You know? Exactly. So, so that cost of flashing, that time of flashing gets spread out over four feet a wall versus 20 feet a wall. The cost per square foot goes, goes up when you reduce actual the height of masonry. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then also I think some of the big energy cost changes that, that we've seen a lot lately trying to get back down to net zero buildings.
A lot of people just don't understand the thermal capacity of a masonry veneer or a masonry block wall or, or brick walls. Right. So, well, and, and yeah, and the, the thermal [00:13:00] mass walls and, and having a block with a brick veneer on it with insulation is, you know, a very energy efficient building. And I think that sometimes that gets overlooked or not thought about 'cause we're concerned about an R value and not looking at the U values and other things like that, that are.
Available to us and yeah, that, that's hurt. That's hurt. Masonry and, and masonry. block veneer That was the original rain screen system. And right now we talk about rain screens and, and it's like, you know, material too. I talk to young people and they say, oh, so this is almost like a rain screen.
I'm like, no, this is the original rain screen. Right. This isn't, this isn't like a rain screen. This is the rain screen. Right. And you know, getting people to understand that from these systems and you know. We are a very green product, and I don't think, you know, we're recyclable and, and we sequester carbon and all these things that, that happen.
And I don't think that we did a good job as an industry of, of promoting what we did naturally because we just, it was so natural we didn't have to go out and say that, you know? Right. It's fire resistant. [00:14:00] Right. Because of that nature, you know? Yeah. And we have, and I think that's part of the, the goal with the podcast is to get that knowledge out there for people to understand.
Some of it is educating architects and engineers, but also just being transparent to the public. Right? Right. They see these old brick buildings. They, there's a ton of bars that have brick buildings or unreinforced masonry buildings around, that everybody walks into every day. And or into the grocery store.
And it's all a block building. Right. So everybody's used to it. Mm-hmm. How do we make that more comfortable for them to say, hey? Well, I think, I think one of the things that when we've had earthquakes and we've had unreinforced, you know, the news media obviously goes to anything that fails and is on the ground, right?
Right. So, when we had the squa quake in oh one there were a few parapets that failed. We didn't have building collapses. Right. You know. I'll tell you what, I'd, I'd much rather be in a block building that's self-supporting and standing with a roof structure than be in a concrete tilted building during an earthquake that's held in, held together by a couple of welds to keep those wall panels Right.
[00:15:00] Falling over. Right. I mean, absolutely. Like, where do you want to be, you know? Yeah. And as an engineer for me, I, I just look at the resilience aspect of masonry and, and the, the ductility of masonry. As a system during earthquakes, we expect the buildings to move and crack. Mm-hmm. And, and. Dissipate the energy of the earthquake that's being added to the system.
And Masonry does a really good job of that. I think we, we've been challenged a little bit in the past with the Unreinforced Masonry buildings. Sure. Which is why we're looking at working with the legislators and trying to get funding out there to fund projects that actually look at, how, how we can stabilize those buildings in place rather than tearing 'em down and putting up a new building.
Right. A lot of those unreinforced masonry buildings are historic buildings. Right. With some methods that we don't use anymore. Right, right. Right. And mortar that is really weak compared to what we make now, so, right. I think some of it's just working with the material that's there already and then having [00:16:00] masons that actually know how to do repairs, which is awesome.
So. the nineties and early two thousands, we were roaring. Right. There was almost 6 billion block being manufactured a year. I, I can only assume that the numbers for brick were matching or exceeding that. Oh, sure. Yeah. Today we're at 1 billion block a year.
Mm-hmm. Or 1.2 billion. Yeah. How do we get back up there? Right. Like it's challenging right now. We know that it's, some of it's from the energy side, some of it's from the carbon side. How do we get back up to six, 7 billion block a year or more masonry overall? Well, I think, I think one of the things with block is that we need to, we need to.
Spread the message about the efficiencies of, of both block and brick, but efficiencies of masonry. You know, we see these tilt up warehouses being built and, you know, long, straight walls. We can do those out a block and we can do those out a block. Well, the general contractor's doing their [00:17:00] floor prep while they're doing their underground because all you guys need is the foundation.
All we need is a foundation. You don't even need the stem. We don't even need a demo. We can go right off the foundation, just right off the foundation. So, you know, I think from a construction schedule, there was a, there was an article 25 years ago now that Fred Meyers said by building with Masonry, they could open their stores eight weeks sooner.
And, you know, that's a, that's a big. That's a big deal. Yeah. And you know, part of, part of what's changed in construction at least in the Pacific Northwest, is we're not doing sprawling retail anymore. Everything is, you know, the apartment mixed use buildings. The five over twos, five over two. Yep.
Five over threes. Those sort of construction. So. The block, those aren't typically historically haven't been blocked. There's things we can do out of blocking those and parking grudges and retail faces and do, yeah, do some more blocking those. But when we look at at, you know, where big buildings are being built, I think if, you know when we.
Open up a wall and, and you know, we have a 300, 400 foot long [00:18:00] wall. We can be very efficient building those buildings. It's hard to be efficient when you're building a couple of columns. Right? There was a, there was a building that was originally designed as concrete tilt up that got built earlier this year.
That was changed and value engineered to be built out a block and you know, I think it went up in 30, 35 days. But one of yours or one up the other? It was somebody else built it. Yeah. But you know, we, we bid on it and it was, it was a mason that suggested the, the change and it got redesigned and, you know, got built out of, out of CMU.
And it's great looking, you know, building efficient to build time, efficient to build you know, schedule-wise it was efficient to build. Yeah. I mean, you know. You just, and all of the other trades that are the all MEP can be working underground, near the masonry? Yeah. Yeah. In, in the big open floor space.
Yeah. As long as we, as long as we have our limited access zone for safety and they're not in that, that zone where we're working and sun supported. I mean, they're good. They're good to go. I mean, it's, you know, there's, there's a lot more that can be done on the site when the masons are there than the others.
And you know, while you're [00:19:00] waiting for the concrete to cure, you're waiting for the concrete to cure. Yeah. You're doing all the framing, you're building all that. I mean, having , the block, manufactured and coming out, basically it's a concrete form. We're grouting 'em or we're foam injecting insulation in.
We get some more value out of 'em. And partially grouting. I mean, there's a lot of different options there, but I think that those, those larger, you know, storage spaces and stuff can be very efficient with Masonry. What do you see as the biggest opportunity for masonry contractors today? Do you think it's the, the education of architects?
Do you think it's the. The scheduling of of the job sites. Do you feel like there's opportunity out there right now or are we kind of in a little bit of a. Wait and see mode right now? Well, I think as a, I think as, I think there's opportunity, you know, all the time, and I think with, you know, going back to the CMU checkoff and having some of those dollars available to be able to run some programs that maybe we couldn't run before to get, the architects, the engineers, the general contractors progressive design build has [00:20:00] become a real, real big delivery method in the Puget Sound in Pacific Northwest now for public Works projects. And so it's not only getting the architects on board, it's getting the general contractors on board and it's getting them understanding that Masonry can be efficient and, they.
See a steel erector or somebody that comes up and puts up a frame in two days, well, oh boom, their frame's up. Well, that's not really realistic, right? 'cause they've gotta go do all the other stuff that goes with it. Right. So it's just, it, it's, it's just being realistic with the design community and who has influence in the design.
And it's getting the people that have the influence in the design to go masonry and to go more masonry. So do you think that's an opportunity for us to reach out to building owners, developers, architects, engineers? What? Yes. Which is your focus, right? Like as a contractor, where do you see the most value in, in that well, target audience?
Well, I, I mean, it's, there's, there's, there's not one value there. And I mean, there's, there's value in all of [00:21:00] those, and it's a combination. So it's having a relationship with an architect, and granted everything should go through an RFI process and all this stuff, but when you have these relationships with architects and it, just pick up the phone and call em, right.
I had, I had a job, I had a job last week that I called the architect on 'cause he. He had a blend of block on the job and it was a random blend of three score, five score, and seven score block on a project. And he's trying to break up the face so that he doesn't get graffiti on the building. Makes sense.
Which kind of makes sense. Yeah. And so I called him and I, he said, you know, and there's only two or 3000 block on this job. And I said, do you want a third, a third, a third? And he goes, well, what do you mean? I go, well, you said you want a random mix. And I said, so do you want the random mix to be. Equal or do you want it to be, be, what do you want it to be?
Right? And he goes, oh yeah, third or third or third's fine. But I mean, I could have said, you want 25, 25, 50. It'd probably been fine with that, but Right. But it's having that relationship, it's, it's built, you know, you have to have those relationships on, on all the levels. You have to have 'em, with the GC that you're working with.
You have to [00:22:00] have 'em with the architect and the engineer that you're working with. Because otherwise, there has to be trust there. Yeah. And if you have a suggestion and you are able to make the suggestion, , that design, the design team, whoever that that component is, looks at your suggestion and, and understands that it's truly a genuine suggestion to make the building better as opposed to.
Trying to cut corners somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about the relationship a little bit more too between the contractor and a progressive design build firm or a progressive design build contract, if you will. Like, what is it? I, I know what it is, but our listeners might not, right?
Yeah. So what is a progressive design build? Contract look like. So, so a progressive design build is, is typically where the architect and the general contractor have teamed up to div, deliver a building for an owner. And they go through a criteria of selection to get to that team selected in a public bid.
And then once they come up with that, then. The, they go out and design and how they're gonna build [00:23:00] the school or the whatever, the Sure. Civics building or whatever it happens to be. And so depending on, on the project at, at various points, they'll bring in their trade partners to do their expertise.
And depending on how big of each scope is gonna be, is, is when those trade partners get, get brought in. Right. We did one, you know, five years ago. And it was a great project and we were involved very early on, and we were the trade partner from, from day one. And we've done some where we're brought, brought in later and been a, a trade partner a little bit later.
Once a, once a design is done. But there's, there's a lot of different opportunities, opportunities there to, to influence things. But when you're in that environment and you're sitting there and you're talking to the architect or the engineer or the gc and you say, Hey, this makes more sense to do this.
They look at you in a collaborative way versus in a. Combative way, or whatever it happens to be. Yeah. Yeah. I, the way I look at it is, is with the progressive design build, you're a whole team working for the project. Correct. Rather than [00:24:00] being independent or trying to go low bid as, as low as you can go.
Right. Progressive design build is really just, in my opinion, it's one of those. Project delivery methods that's meant to give the best value to the owner while also making it the most collaborative that it can be for the architect general and the name trade partners Well, and, and yeah. And the general contractor who's ultimately responsible for delivering a project goes in without blind spots.
Right. And you know, when you go in with blind spots into, into a project, it creates problems. Yeah. So. We feel that being partnered with them early on them identifying, you know, what scopes we, they want us to do, what scopes that make sense for us to do what makes scopes that make sense for another trade partner on the project to do, whether it's a sequencing, whether it's, you know, a, somebody supplies, somebody installs, whatever those, those issues are, we're able to work those out and, and work those into our overall budget for the project [00:25:00] as opposed to trying to,
exclude things and leave things out or, come back for change orders later that Yeah. Who's doing the flashing? Are you doing the flashing or is the insulation guy doing the flashing? And those can make a big, you know, who's installing the insulation, right? I mean, that can make a big difference.
Yeah. And you know, those are, those are all things that go into the project. That or unknown, that, that, that if, if you're in a hard bid, it's, it's unknown and you know, somebody might have a lower number on bid day, but is their number really lower if they didn't have the flashing and Right. Does the general have that covered in another scope, or do they want the mason to cover?
Right. And those are all things that factor in. So we've talked about checkoff a little bit. What on the MCAA side or MCA foundation mm-hmm. Do you see? As an opportunity moving forward? Well, you know, MCA does a lot of things at a national level. Obviously, you know, they're not gonna influence Tacoma or Right.
Seattle's Puget Sound specifically in what they do. But they have a lot of good programs. They have a lot of things that are, that are available that people can get to and [00:26:00] tailor and, and to them, they have sample plans of. Whatever is they do is a lot of silica training.
They work with osha Okay. At a national level on a lot of codes and standards. And they more on the contractor education side. Well, but they also do a lot of public law federal lobbying. Oh, okay. Things of that nature. So, MCA works at a national level where our local associations are gonna work at more of a state level which obviously we've gotta have, we gotta have both.
So, yeah. And so we have a couple really cool events coming up. We have a URM event on Sunday this week which is. Really cool. Nice. Because I'm gonna give a presentation there on stabilize in place versus rip out and replace. Right. But we also have an opportunity coming up where we're bringing architects and engineers from Seattle to the union training hall.
Okay. And actually getting their hands dirty. We've got three stations where we're gonna be laying brick, block and tile. Mm-hmm. And. I don't know. I've never laid tile ever in my life. So it might be nice to learn how to do that. Do you Right, do you have very many tile projects or are you gonna leave that on the other tile contractor side?
Well, [00:27:00] we do a lot of fin brick, which is Okay. Which is what, this is very, very similar to tile. Yeah. You know. We prefer full thickness brick. Sure. And laid in place over thin brick. But there's applications like inside of office space where you want to have a thin brick application. You don't want the extra weight in the inside the building, right?
You don't need to wait inside the building. Things. Things of that nature. But yeah, no, we, so, thin brick and tile are, are very similar products. Obviously. The, the joining and Yeah. Striking of 'em is completely different, but, right. As far as, as adhering and sticking something to a wall or substrate, that's, they're very similar.
Are the tolerances about the same, or No? Ti tile is, I think we're a little bit tighter with the tile. Tile. Tile. Tile is a little tighter. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. You're, you're working with a, a fine tooth. We use a lot of the same grouting joint and everything. Right? Right. I mean, you're trying to get an eighth inch or a 16th inch joint tile and you've got a three eight inch joint brick.
'cause you're trying to make this look like brick not tile. Right, right. So that's, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the biggest thing for me looking forward is, is this podcast is meant to educate [00:28:00] architects, engineers, contractors. Building owners, anybody who ends up driving and Right.
Wanting. So to listen, something to listen to for 30 minutes. And I think that's a, a great opportunity for us to get contractors, architects, engineers, building officials. Right. Building inspectors. I think it'll be fun to grow it and, and see where we, where we go with this podcast. Right. Right. And I appreciate you coming on and, and being the first guest.
Thank you. It's fun. Ron Adams with Cascade Construction. Yeah. President Washington State Conference of Mason Contractors. Yeah. And thank you for joining us today. Thanks Adam. Appreciate it. That's a wrap on today's episode of In the Mix where we put Masonry in the spotlight, block by block, brick by brick. A big thanks to our guest, Ron Adams for sharing their time and insights with us. If you enjoyed today's episode, do us a favor. Click that follow button, leave a quick review and share it with someone who cares about building smarter and stronger.
You can connect with me, Adam Hutchinson on [00:29:00] LinkedIn and find a bonus content from today's episode@masonrymix.com. In the mix is hosted by yours truly, Adam Hutchinson. You can find the podcast wherever podcasts are found. Hosting of the podcast is made possible by the Masonry Institute of Washington and the Northwest Concrete Masonry Association With a special thank you to the Masonry Institute of Oregon.
Thanks for listening, and as always, stay curious, stay connected, and keep building strong. See you next week, right here in the mix.