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The RIOS (for a Racially-just Inclusive Open STEM Education) Institute presents an interview podcast where Dr. Bryan Dewsbury of the Science Education And Society (SEAS) lab converses with individuals who do social justice work in science education and education in general. We hope people enjoy the conversation itself, and consider new ways in which education can be transformative whatever your situation may be.
Welcome back everyone. Special episode of well, I mean, all the episodes are special. But maybe I use it with special here because in this episode, we actually got a chance to to talk to not just a special professor, but a student who is who was and is a student of that professor. And I don't wanna give away the plot here, but, you know, for me, my visit to Arrupe College where doctor Aubrey Sirman is from, it it was a reminder of of why I love education. Why education is so valuable.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right? It is a mechanism by which anybody, literally anybody in the world, can enjoy and have a chance at some real mobility. Right? And this is something I I really wanna encourage people not to lean away from. And what Arrupe College is doing, their model, and and what they're focusing is just is is very very special.
Bryan Dewsbery:And I don't wanna I'm not gonna tell doctor Sirman's story for her, but I hope you enjoy the ways in which not just what she's done and what the school has done, but what her student has enjoyed as a part of the process. I want to go to Aruppe College because that's how I met one of my wonderful guests today, Doctor. Aubrey Sirman, who's a professor of biology here, and she's next to a kind of a nervous looking student who apparently was only told yesterday that she was talking to a a loud Caribbean dude. So Angie I actually didn't even go that far. Yes.
Bryan Dewsbery:You didn't go that far.
Aubrey Sirman:No. I was just like, I have a colleague. Yes. So she had no idea.
Bryan Dewsbery:You have risen to the level of colleague, Angie. But it's great, man. It's great. I think it's you actually might be now that I'm thinking about it, you are the first time I've hired a student.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Oh, really?
Bryan Dewsbery:No. No. No. Second time. Hired a student on the podcast.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right? And so this this this means a lot. We talk a lot about transformative education, but the the sort of understood part of that sentence is that the one of the lives we hope transform through this process are the lives of people who choose to come to our institution. So thanks for being at Arrupe. Thanks for being on the podcast.
Bryan Dewsbery:Tell us your name tell us your name and where you're from, Angie.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:My name is Angie Catalina Aguilar. I'm from Colombia
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Bogota, and I'm a first year student here.
Bryan Dewsbery:First year student. Okay. Okay. So first year meaning this is the end coming up to the end of your second semester?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yes. Okay.
Bryan Dewsbery:Did you come directly from Bogota? Yes.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:I came here to United States almost, like, two years ago. So Mhmm. Yeah. Alright. I'm new here.
Bryan Dewsbery:Okay. How do how do you like so far?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:It's great. Okay. I feel like Arrupe has, like, a good community. Mhmm. And it has, like, support for everyone.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yeah. And Yeah. If you need, like, help, you can ask, and they won't judge you or something like that.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. So Okay. I I wanna circle back to that, but I think I think the listeners need some context. And, Aubrey, I'm gonna ask you as best as you can. I know you you didn't create the college.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right? But I know you are aware of the origin story of Arrupe College. It's a very unique model. So when Angie talks about being able to ask for help and everyone's so responsive, there are many, many other universities who do that, I get that, but there is something particular about what you have constructed. So why don't you tell us about how Arruppe was founded, how it was set up, and then where we are today?
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. So my understanding, because like you were saying, I kinda came into this a little bit later, I was not at Arrupe at the beginning of its inception. I came to Arrupe in 2019, and we still had kind of our original founding dean, father Katsaros. And my
Bryan Dewsbery:So it founded just before that, basically?
Aubrey Sirman:It was founded in 2015 Okay. I believe. So, you know, it had been working on about almost four or five years by the time, like, I got hired. And my understanding was basically this program was kind of meant to kind of ease students like into college. Like there were students who wanted to go to college that weren't necessarily prepared for the four year system.
Aubrey Sirman:I do feel For like
Bryan Dewsbery:whatever reason.
Aubrey Sirman:Or for whatever reason. It could be anything. And so this college was kind of meant as a way to kind of prepare them for kind of the the rigor of the four year system while also still being college. Right. You know, we didn't want it to be like this, like, bridge program.
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. Exactly. We still wanted it to very much feel like college. And I think, like, it does kind of branch from some of that community college model because we do have also very strict times that students take classes. So there's a little bit less variety that normally comes, I think, with community colleges.
Aubrey Sirman:So it's definitely meant to be more of a structured program.
Bryan Dewsbery:Tell me more about that structure. So you said particular times when they take classes, are they taking these classes in cohorts? Is this sort of explained to them at the beginning? Is there kind of a method to that We
Aubrey Sirman:do have a cohort model. So we have students that are considered in the morning cohort and some that are in the afternoon cohort. Angie, which one are you?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Do you remember? Morning.
Aubrey Sirman:You're in the morning cohort.
Bryan Dewsbery:Like Do you regret that, Joyce?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they can
Aubrey Sirman:also break the cohort depending on their schedule. That's why I asked because she might have a morning class with me but also still be considered afternoon.
Bryan Dewsbery:Oh, interesting. Okay.
Aubrey Sirman:But anyway, we do have a cohort model. Coming into like the fall students kind of choose whether they want to take the morning classes or the afternoon classes. I'm trying to what was the second part of that question?
Bryan Dewsbery:Well, I think there was no real second part. I think it was more the original story and leading up to now, which is what I think you're doing. But let me use this breakdown to zero in on the cohort thing. So I'm thinking that part of the benefit of having a cohort model is you build community among the students because they're the battlefield with all due respect to the teachers who are teaching them together.
Aubrey Sirman:They do.
Bryan Dewsbery:Was that the thinking, and is there anything else that does to sort of reinforce that sense of
Aubrey Sirman:So I think that was in part the thinking. And another thing that Arrupe does is we don't have classes on Wednesdays.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Okay.
Aubrey Sirman:And I know part of the original thinking with like the no Wednesday thing slash the cohort model was that if students had jobs that were like outside of the university, they would still kind of be able to do those like part time jobs. So if you're in the morning cohort, you could have like an afternoon job and you would always kind of be guaranteed that your classes could exist in the morning, for example. So I think that was like some of the thinking on like why we have this cohort model in addition to like, yeah, the students do build bonds with folks that are in their cohorts because they see them How all the time.
Bryan Dewsbery:Many credits a student might be taking?
Aubrey Sirman:Speaker So in the original model, 12 credits a semester, basically. So just kind of to get you to Yeah. Full Yeah. And they take essentially six credits in the summer to get through the two years with the the appropriate amount to graduate. Okay.
Aubrey Sirman:I will say since then, we have kind of extended this a little bit where students have a few more options to take more classes than they They're the choice. Need. Yeah. In the So, like, they can take up to, like, 15 no questions asked. It used to be kind of like you had to, you know, get permission to kinda take more than what you needed.
Aubrey Sirman:But now I think it's become a little bit more regular, for some of those students. Right. Which we're seeing as, like, a way to help also prepare them, you know, potentially moving on to their next college program.
Bryan Dewsbery:Because their next college would be Mhmm. Maybe a higher load or
Aubrey Sirman:Exactly.
Bryan Dewsbery:I I know you mentioned to me offline that you joked that when you go to conferences or workshops and they ask you what departments you're from is funny because you don't have departments.
Aubrey Sirman:We don't You're have just
Bryan Dewsbery:one group of faculty. My department is my college, my college is my department. Any more questions? Yeah. So how does that shake off for the students, though?
Bryan Dewsbery:Are they majors?
Aubrey Sirman:Oh, yeah.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Actually, this would be
Bryan Dewsbery:great to get because student
Aubrey Sirman:I know what I would answer as a faculty adviser.
Bryan Dewsbery:Well, let's do it to answer.
Aubrey Sirman:But I'm also curious what a student would answer. So Angie, do you have a major? I do. Oh.
Bryan Dewsbery:So I do question mark.
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. I feel like actually, this is a really common answer. I question mark.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yeah. It's because okay. It's weird. Mhmm. So my degree is supposed to be liberal arts Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Concentration in pre STEM. Oh, see.
Bryan Dewsbery:She answered it Concentration in what?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Pre STEM.
Aubrey Sirman:Pre STEM.
Bryan Dewsbery:Pre STEM. Okay. Yes.
Aubrey Sirman:A plus answer.
Bryan Dewsbery:Is my is my understanding that probably everybody's degree is in liberal arts with a concentration in different things or no? Okay. I don't I
Angie Catalina Aguilar:remember the name, but there is other like degrees, which is like business.
Aubrey Sirman:Mhmm. There's a business.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yep. Business. Mhmm.
Aubrey Sirman:This the next one is the tough one. It's got a longer name.
Bryan Dewsbery:Can test out the final here,
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Angie. Let me know. Also,
Aubrey Sirman:she doesn't have to worry about this. She knows her own pre major. We call them pre majors. So these like when she said liberal arts pre STEM, pre STEM is the pre major. But we don't actually have majors.
Aubrey Sirman:So like Angie was saying, she her degree, when she gets it, will be liberal arts.
Bryan Dewsbery:Okay.
Aubrey Sirman:The other one that we have is social behavioral science. Mhmm. Yeah. That's why I think it's a longer Yes. Social behavioral science and we have a business
Bryan Dewsbery:Okay.
Aubrey Sirman:Degree. So social behavioral science and liberal arts, they each have these kind of like pre majors, which you can kind of think of it as just like a track for students to kind of follow. Since Angie wants to do pre STEM, then we're suggesting she also take like Bio one and two and Chem one and two and Calc, potentially up to Calc two because that would all prepare her for a future STEM degree. But there are a bunch of others. We have a psychology one, we have a criminal justice.
Bryan Dewsbery:Is it pre psych?
Aubrey Sirman:Nope, it's
Bryan Dewsbery:just Just little Just
Angie Catalina Aguilar:psychology. Yeah,
Aubrey Sirman:I know, it's kinda weird. But yeah, so yeah, we have psychology and we have criminal justice. We have there's a communications English history. So
Bryan Dewsbery:yeah. So so, Angie, I would love to hear I I would love for you to walk us from 2025 or maybe even before that, right, when you were thinking about where to go to college, if to go to college, you know, because I'm thinking back to Aubrey's definition of who a rupiah's target audience tends to be, right? What what drew you here? What made this an an attractive option? And what's the experience been like since you've been here?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:So my path to come here, it was kinda tricky because I'm a like, as I told you before, I'm a first year student Mhmm. Low income Mhmm. And immigrant.
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:So I have, like, the all the qualities to not to go to, like, a four year Mhmm. School. So I was thinking to go to how's it called? Did you call hi. I forgot.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:I'm sorry.
Bryan Dewsbery:I don't know. I apologize.
Aubrey Sirman:Maybe another way, like, how did you hear about
Bryan Dewsbery:No. Well, I think you're trying to remember. You were thinking that it was another school. Yes. Was a Chicago community college or something.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:City college? City college. Oh, yeah. Okay.
Aubrey Sirman:Yes. City college. And
Bryan Dewsbery:I'm like,
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. You're thinking about another community college.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. Okay. Which is
Angie Catalina Aguilar:kinda like Arrupe. Mhmm. But I decided to go here because I know there is more support to immigrant students Mhmm. Than in City College. So that's why I was like, oh, okay.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:This is great. Like, I I was expecting that I was supposed to meet, like, people like me. Love. Mhmm. Yeah.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:And
Bryan Dewsbery:Did you?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yes. Yeah. I have found sort of people who are like like, their stories are similar. Yeah. It's not the same.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yeah. But Yeah. I can find, like how do you say it? Like, support? Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:I have your you found your community.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yes. Yeah. Mhmm. So Yeah. That's why
Bryan Dewsbery:I visit. Yeah. So I'm I'll tell you partly why I'm curious. Right? So I think I mentioned to you offline that I'm from Trinidad.
Bryan Dewsbery:I wouldn't say I wouldn't say we were super low income, but I would say we were definitely not high income. We were, you know, a working class family. Right? And as you probably know from living in Columbia, the exchange rate is such that, you know, if you have if your family is still back in your home country, what it takes to get a single US dollar makes paying college tuition pretty much impossible, right, if you're relying on finances from your home country to do it. So the only way I could have come to The US to study was on a full scholarship.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right? Unfortunately, that's what I got. I studied in Atlanta. But I shared many of the traits that you just described in that we were semi low income. I'm a first generation college student, and I'm an immigrant.
Bryan Dewsbery:I think Morehouse had a very nice pathway for that. But once you're on campus, community was, I think, would be harsh because it's not like I'm not saying this school was bad or they didn't care or anything. It's not that. It's that it was diverse, in that a lot of the students were US born, many were wealthy, some were know, it's sort of all over the place, right? And when you're 19 and you you yourself trying to figure out what you're feeling as you're navigating this new place, I I know at the time, I didn't even know where to begin to find my community.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right? It it it sounds like and tell me if I'm right about this. Like, you you kinda walked in here, and it was it was sort of right in front of you. I mean, maybe it didn't fall into your lap. Right?
Bryan Dewsbery:But you were quickly able to identify people who didn't have your same origin story, but at least understood what your path was.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yeah. So here is like you know, during high school, there is like a presentation of Mhmm. Like Mhmm. The university itself. Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:So they were showing, like, the percent percentage of Mhmm. The students. Okay. Like, they
Bryan Dewsbery:were So Rupiah came to your high school. Okay. Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yes. And that's why I, like, I knew what to expect
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Here, like,
Aubrey Sirman:what to your presenter? Yes.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's
Bryan Dewsbery:you're apparently, somebody who works here who is not currently on your podcast. Okay.
Aubrey Sirman:There's only two of them. It's a good option. But I think she does a really great
Bryan Dewsbery:job of Yeah. Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:Messaging to students.
Bryan Dewsbery:Okay.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:One of the things that I like here is, for example, in the financial part, they can help you with a full scholarship because I'm like, I have a full scholarship. That's why I'm studying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. I I know hey. I know what time it is.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:And also even if you have, like, some spendings outside of the, like, the budget Mhmm. You can ask if there is, like, any help Mhmm. And they will help you. Yes. Because they have the money.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yeah.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:So So we do additional support that is outside of tuition. Okay. We just call it, like, non tuition assistance, and it can cover anything pretty much, textbooks, food sometimes. We have a food pantry. We have, like, all these extra things Mhmm.
Aubrey Sirman:In addition to just providing discounted tuition
Bryan Dewsbery:or Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:In this case, full tuition.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. I I mean, this is a question you probably can't but when I'll ask it anyway. You know, as as I do with every podcast, you know, I do some background reading on on the conversation I'm about to have, and I I I understand the Arrupe model. I'm really impressed with your wraparound support. Every time I read through a different article about it, I'm like, how isn't it that 900 students aren't trying to break down the door to get into this space?
Bryan Dewsbery:Well, especially with the cost of college today, right? So because I know you're a little bit space limited with Downtown Chicago, right? Real estate out here is pretty expensive, and Loyola, I'm sure, supports the Aruppe project very well, but it can be unlimited. But, you know, 98% of students that graduated debt free, I mean, that's almost unheard of.
Aubrey Sirman:Yep. I mean, I think some of it there's a couple of things. I will say so I did mention earlier that we only have like these three degree programs. So as far as like kind of what we offer in terms of programs, it is definitely more limited. Like city colleges has a lot more and I'm sure Angie, when you were looking, they have like a whole Right.
Aubrey Sirman:Right, of things. So I think like that might be part of it too. And this is a very you have to want kind of this very specific, I think, like, high touch, like, experience Yeah. Which I think, like, could be part of that. You know?
Aubrey Sirman:But as far as, like, the rest of it, I don't even know. You know? I think
Bryan Dewsbery:I mean, I'm not doubting you and much.
Aubrey Sirman:A conversation, I for think, admissions, though, because I feel
Bryan Dewsbery:like maybe they would know I know.
Aubrey Sirman:More. Yeah. I know. Because it does sound like a great deal, though.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right. And high touch models, almost by definition, would have to have a cap because it's not too much humans you could have. But But I'll betray my bias here because like you're saying, with all due respect to the city colleges, they have all these options and people can get attracted to that. Right?
Aubrey Sirman:Right. Angie in specific program.
Bryan Dewsbery:Angie, you may or may not know this. Some of your original universities, colleges, the whole curriculum was Latin. Yeah. And the idea was you being able to learn this should be able to transfer your thinking skills to anything. Right.
Aubrey Sirman:Thank goodness we're not.
Bryan Dewsbery:Thank Thank God we move on from that project. But my point is, I actually still believe a little bit in the spirit of that. In that at 18 to 22, assuming that's the ages you choose to go to college, you don't need to specialize as much as people think they need to specialize. I agree. So because people have that feeling, then they're looking for the phase with 25 different programs.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right? And and this is not an anti workforce argument. This is not a no. No. It's none of that.
Bryan Dewsbery:No. It's not that. It's it's a pro thinking argument. Right? Like, what does it mean to become a thinker and a lifelong learner and and, trust or believe or be explained to that those skills could really take you into any career very meaningfully.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah,
Aubrey Sirman:my only hypothesis is that we're just we're not as specialized, and we're really high touch. And if you're, I guess, not interested in that, then I can see you being like, you know, maybe this isn't what I want.
Bryan Dewsbery:This isn't for you. Mhmm. Let let me ask you, Aubrey, because and and I'm not sure how much you've discussed with Angie about your own origin story, right, but but you know, you and I
Aubrey Sirman:love it. I I do a little inter introductory stuff in class, but not a ton.
Bryan Dewsbery:Well, you and I, you know, both academics
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbery:Read you know, right in The US system. Mhmm. And I've known you from other professional situations, so you know how I feel about what we don't do to future faculty to get them ready to be effective in the classroom. But I think that in the same way you said this model is very particular and students have to look at this and want to be a part of this, I think faculty and staff also have to look at this and want this type of professional structure. So I'm curious as to what brought you here.
Bryan Dewsbery:And maybe just kind of tell us a bit about how it's impacted your approach to teaching, your approach to education, thoughts on just general social stuff.
Aubrey Sirman:This will be kind of fun because I think other faculty have a more inspirational story. Uh-huh. Help.
Bryan Dewsbery:I'm not this doesn't have
Aubrey Sirman:to be No. No. No. No. Think this will be good because I think my story is maybe like a little less two: inspirational
Bryan Dewsbery:in that like realm. And I think it's kind of like why I stay
Aubrey Sirman:Mhmm. Right? So, you know, like you, I went through bachelor's, I got my master's in like basically molecular physiology. I did, like, hormone work
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Mhmm.
Aubrey Sirman:With mice. And then I took that to North Dakota State, and I did more hormone stuff with birds, which is actually more of my background is, like, in bird work. And then, like, after my PhD, like, I had not intended to do a postdoc. And then, Angie, since you're kind of new to this, most faculty will do a postdoc after their PhD if they are intending to stay like on this like tenure track kind of path. And I say tenure track, that's like all the other professors, not necessarily the ones here at Arrupe, but like most of the other professors at the university who are doing research, they're on like what's called the tenure trackpad.
Aubrey Sirman:And so I never actually wanted to do that.
Bryan Dewsbery:Guess for people who can't see this, Angie just looked at Aubrey like, what are we speaking about?
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. And I I had no desire to run a research lab and do teaching. Like, that was not Yeah. My desire. Mhmm.
Aubrey Sirman:And I so I didn't even necessarily know exactly what I wanted to do after my PhD. I had done a lot of teaching as like a teaching assistant like during my PhD. I did like it, I you don't know if I could say I was like called to teaching though. I feel like you had a really strong like, Oh man, teaching is literally what I'm supposed to do. I think like I had more, you know, I enjoyed mentoring students.
Aubrey Sirman:I had enjoyed my time as a teaching assistant and I had enjoyed research. Like I feel like it was, I just knew I didn't want to run a lab. I was like, that is not for me. And then so I moved to Chicago specifically because my late husband actually lived there. And I was like, I'm just gonna move there and I'm gonna figure it out.
Aubrey Sirman:And so like that is actually why I came to Chicago initially. And then I applied at Arrupe because the job description was like, hey, we need a one year person to teach some intro classes. And I was like, you know what I can do? I can do that. And so I applied as just like a one year visiting the you know, visiting professor, like contract basically.
Aubrey Sirman:And when I got there, you know, you get thrown into teaching. I did really enjoy the actual environment that Arrupe has kind of set up. So this like idea of being really high touch with students, getting to know them like a little bit more personally than I had known them in my previous like roles because I taught this like concepts of biology course like at North Dakota that had like 400 students in it. Wow. So, like, I didn't As a as a TA?
Aubrey Sirman:It's a non major. Yeah. Yeah. As a TA. Oh, wow.
Aubrey Sirman:Got to be instructor of record.
Bryan Dewsbery:Was Okay. That's what I'm saying. Because normally in STEM, they they only let you do labs.
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. I got to do
Bryan Dewsbery:400.
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. There was it was a big it was a big auditorium, but non major biology class. I didn't know any of those people personally. Like, no way. And so, like, when I got here, you know, like, that's what I got to do for, like, you know, a whole year was, like, do that.
Aubrey Sirman:And then, you know, I feel like part of staying in academia too is having the fates aligned. And so they happened to be offering a three year contract, which would have been like this current position because we're on these, like, rotating contracts. And that is definitely a more permanent position. And so I did apply for that one. And then, of course, COVID happened.
Aubrey Sirman:That was a whole thing. But yeah. And so here I am now. Well Many years later.
Bryan Dewsbery:What was the whole thing with I mean, it was the whole thing.
Aubrey Sirman:I mean, Basically, I
Bryan Dewsbery:What was your version of the whole thing?
Aubrey Sirman:Well, it kinda happened during my second semester of that one year.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. The twenty nineteen year started which means
Aubrey Sirman:So like I applied for the three year and then we all like went online. It was wild. Yeah. And I finished up my one year contract all online, started this current job two: online, you know? And so like that was a transition.
Bryan Dewsbery:Speaker Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:But yeah. And so basically now that I've been here, you know, a few more years after that, I have really enjoyed the community that Arrupe has. I enjoy working with my coworkers. I feel like they all have the students' interests in mind Mhmm. Even if, you know, normal stuff occurs.
Aubrey Sirman:You have students that don't like certain professors for whatever reason. All that normal stuff Like
Bryan Dewsbery:how Angie feels about you.
Aubrey Sirman:Right. Exactly. Angie's like, no. Took you a while, though. Right?
Aubrey Sirman:But but I will say I I could feel that most students will actually agree that, like, all the professors definitely, like, care about them and their success. Like whether or not you enjoyed their class or not. Yeah. They might have ended biology being like, this is the worst class I've ever taken. But I think they won't end up thinking like I didn't care about them.
Bryan Dewsbery:We'll put
Aubrey Sirman:it that way. And so like, that's my story. Like, that's why I'm still here. And I think the culture of the college is really nice and it's really student centered. And like, that's the part I really enjoy.
Aubrey Sirman:I also enjoy mentoring students and telling them about my path, which I think is like one of the perks of that job is helping guide students to wherever they want to go. So that's my not so inspirational.
Bryan Dewsbery:I think that's so inspirational. Shut your mouth. Not to emphasize instructors in other types of institutions, right? But I know for a fact you go to conferences a lot, you go to workshops, and so you meet, and just in general, you have colleagues who are not a RUPE faculty, who are working in very different, I dare say, more traditional models. In fact, right up the street, right on Loyola University main campus.
Bryan Dewsbery:I'm curious as to maybe you're not sitting down and making an active comparison with them, but you almost can't help think about your situation and the nature of the students you work with, the way your job is structured versus, I don't know, another person who has 400 students.
Aubrey Sirman:Well, certainly And if you're on the tenure track too, and you're also doing research in addition to teaching, I know that can be really tough to put in the focus like on teaching when you're expected to also be writing a ton of grants and managing a lab and stuff like that. And of course, like if you have 400 students, there's I mean, when I was teaching that class, I thought I taught it in a way that was the best you could possibly have
Angie Catalina Aguilar:done.
Bryan Dewsbery:Maybe 400.
Aubrey Sirman:With 400 students, yeah. But like, you know, there was no way that I was going to be able to know them. Yeah. Like, or if I was going to know them, it was gonna be for a not good reason, two: you know, like as in you keep showing up on the list.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right.
Aubrey Sirman:The not good list, You know? So I do kind of value that here
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:Is the fact that I do get to know every student, and I do know who they are. And it's not just because they're on a list that you're like, oh, no. That's not a great list to be on.
Bryan Dewsbery:Let me be more specific because you you said this a couple of
Aubrey Sirman:times Oh, yeah.
Bryan Dewsbery:That one of the most beautiful things is how you get to know them. Yeah. In the seven years almost seven years you've been here
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbery:What are some of the things in getting to know them as you've learned about your students that has been a great learning experience for you?
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. I think for some of that is really like, you learn some personal things about their lives. I think Arrupe students in general are really awesome about like just telling you what's going on. Mhmm. And I think before as like an educator with those 300 students, if a student had emailed me needing flexibility, I'm not saying I wouldn't have given it, but like but I'm saying like I might have been like less empathetic towards that.
Aubrey Sirman:And I feel like it's made me a better like educator because they've come to me about their lives, they told me more about them and I get to know more about what's going on and I think that informed my teaching and how I design courses and In what way? You know, like building more flexibility into it, you know, having more drops or honestly not caring so much about some of the deadlines. I do some like rolling deadlines now which like before I think I would have told you, no, these are hard deadlines. You have to meet deadlines in real life. You have to right?
Aubrey Sirman:Like this is why they're hard deadlines. But now I do kind of this rolling deadline system where there is a real deadline, but like the other ones that leading up to it, if you're a day late, whatever. Like, it's fine. So I think like that's how it's informed some of that. And of course, like the normal stuff where I feel like I try to bring in content that might be interesting, like to the students in my class, like in general, within reason.
Aubrey Sirman:Do what I can with cell respiration, but it's tough subject.
Bryan Dewsbery:Doctor. We can have another episode where we talk about how I use fermentation of alcohol to make that equation a very interesting thing. Right?
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. So it's like, you know, in addition to the normal stuff, but I feel like now I have, like, a greater understanding of what students are going through. Yeah. And I think that's really informed, like, that part of my teaching.
Bryan Dewsbery:Well, I'm I'm asking this question from a couple of places. Sure. One, and this is me not knowing maybe your own academic journey and, you know, what that was like for you Yeah. In whatever way. Me being first generation, when I one of the reasons why I had that Road to Damascus moment was I I mentioned to you that at 19, I didn't really have the words to explain everything I was trying to navigate at 19, being first generation, not having the navigational capital, you know all of the academic terms we use.
Bryan Dewsbery:But then when I was a grad student, and then I'm almost watching a past version of myself in front of me. Right? I'm watching first generation students doing the things that I did and not knowing another way because there's no way to know that. And then the lesson I took from that experience was what an incredible opportunity I have to be that person who provides you that capital, that pathway, that encouragement, Not that your parents don't love you, not that your family doesn't care about you, but if you're coming from a social situation where that is unavailable, that is what a university, a really truly loving university can provide, right? And that's why I say I can't do anything else, right?
Aubrey Sirman:I think that's the part of mentoring is I get to tell you the secrets. These are like all the secrets that I also didn't know. And I'm also a first generation student. My parents did not go to college. And now I get to tell you all the secrets of how to get into grad school.
Aubrey Sirman:Like, especially for, like, students like Angie here
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm.
Aubrey Sirman:Who have maybe some research aspirations
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Mhmm.
Aubrey Sirman:And, like, learning for the first time.
Bryan Dewsbery:Just so people know when she says maybe, it's me because it's between research and several other great options in neuroscience. Exactly.
Aubrey Sirman:I don't wanna push you towards it. Thank you. But if you do, like, being able to tell you that you can go to grad school Yeah. For free, like, on a tuition waiver, like, that's the secret that I want to tell you, that you don't have to pay to get your PhD or Masters or you probably will have to pay for med school but, you know, there's always but,
Angie Catalina Aguilar:You
Aubrey Sirman:know, there's always fees, but you you know? Know, So maybe did you just learn that for the first time, Angie? I I think I think you I think you kinda
Bryan Dewsbery:knew, but I it's a good segue because I want I want the audience to hear a bit more about your awesome your dreams in neuroscience. I think it's it's really cool.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Your dreams. So one of my dreams is to become a neurosurgeon surgeon
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Or a neuroscientist.
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:So it depends.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:But, yeah, what should I say?
Bryan Dewsbery:Well well, what I like about what you're saying is, it may not be intentional on your part, but there are different flavors of both of those things you said, right? So a neurosurgeon, you could be pediatric, you could focus on particular diseases, right? Like my dad passed several years ago from Parkinson's, you know, that was an interesting journey learning about that. Neuroscientists, oh my goodness, that could be like 19 things, right? So it sounds to me, and correct me if I'm wrong about this, that you're going to get into this space, you're going to take the classes, you're going to do the internship we talked about and see what moves you
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yeah.
Bryan Dewsbery:And when that time comes. When you and I I didn't ask you this, if you don't mind sharing. Is your family with you in Chicago or back in Bogota?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:No. They are with me, like, in Chicago.
Bryan Dewsbery:Okay. Okay. And how was the conversation about being a neuroscientist gone? It was hard. Okay.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Because okay. So in my family, we don't have scientists or Mhmm. People who dream to be something like in the science field. So they weren't they support me Mhmm. But they didn't have, like, a good expectation of, like, how I'm gonna be.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right. What does that look like? And yeah.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:So it was hard. Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:And they don't know what that path looks like.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yes. They they are confused. Like, every every month they ask me, like, what are you studying?
Aubrey Sirman:This actually reminds me. And maybe you've had a similar conversation. Uh-huh. Maybe it's just a first generation
Bryan Dewsbery:conversation where
Aubrey Sirman:they're like, what kind of job are you gonna get?
Bryan Dewsbery:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. My my dad's
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Do you
Aubrey Sirman:have a job yet? And I was, like, doing my PhD, I was like, this is my job.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yeah. Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:Was just school
Bryan Dewsbery:What is there left
Aubrey Sirman:also my job.
Bryan Dewsbery:Just know about these seagrasses. A lot, dad, a lot.
Aubrey Sirman:What are you gonna do for a
Angie Catalina Aguilar:job? I
Bryan Dewsbery:mean, you know, you you have to laugh, right, because now I think we're all old enough to understand that's coming from a good place, right, but you know what you know, right, and I just give my parents a ton of credit. Even though they didn't understand the fine details of things, they just took on faith that if we send you to college, something great will happen that would take you further than we were able to take. And so that trust matters. And this is kind of back to my point about the rules that we as professors and faculty and staff can play for first generation students. We are responding to that trust.
Bryan Dewsbery:We are responding to the trust and the faith that they put in us to create situations so that students like you, well really all students, can come here and see a path where there's something great, even if it's nonlinear.
Aubrey Sirman:And I think one thing that Arrupe really does well, and it's not just our interactions with students as faculty. But we also, and I think we as faculty know about programs and internships and we do a really good job I think of connecting students to those right away. So like, I'm sure you've already talked with Sarah actually about these internships like that occur in Yeah. The Yeah. So like we have these kind of built in programs that like we have one person whose job is like, we call her the jobs lady, but like her job is to get students internships and jobs.
Bryan Dewsbery:Is that the thing on her door? I'm the jobs lady. She would probably
Aubrey Sirman:say yes. It's not on her door, but I think she would call herself the jobs lady. And like I think like there's kind of a universal like language amongst faculty to be like, oh, okay, this summer, have you talked with Sarah about like finding an internship or have you talked with Sarah about like doing this thing or, So we're really good at I think trying to connect students to those opportunities that allow them to figure it out. Because they could do this intern you could do an internship with Lurie's Health.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:I am.
Aubrey Sirman:Are you in that Yes. All right. So I was gonna say like you could hate it, but like it sounds like you're probably not. Yeah. I don't know.
Aubrey Sirman:Are you hating it? Do you like it? No. Like It's amazing. Like And they get to go go ahead and explain it,
Angie Catalina Aguilar:I Okay. So each Wednesday Uh-huh. We we have, like, there are several sites to go
Bryan Dewsbery:into like a health center network or something? Yes. You said Luthorys Health?
Aubrey Sirman:It's down Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:At Northwestern.
Bryan Dewsbery:Okay.
Aubrey Sirman:Right over there. Okay.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:There are, like it depends on your interest because there is a business program kind of with the law school, I think. For example, me, last semester I did in a research department no. Department of biology. Okay. Research.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Okay. My fellowship was like I was doing rotation Mhmm. In some laboratories Mhmm. In lecture campus. So it was amazing.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. And so this was just on Wednesdays or
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Just Wednesdays.
Aubrey Sirman:Okay. Just Wednesdays. Okay. Now you're doing Lurie Children's this Wednesday. Okay.
Aubrey Sirman:And
Bryan Dewsbery:So awesome.
Aubrey Sirman:Yes. I know. Where you get to shadow, right Yes. Different like medical folks. So like nurses
Bryan Dewsbery:and things. You're like, I would like to see a neurosurgeon.
Aubrey Sirman:No. I mean, she can't. The
Angie Catalina Aguilar:thing is, in the hospital right now, I'm doing, I am in the ophthalmology department. Uh-huh. So some Wednesdays I'm in the OR, the operating room. Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:Is so
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yes. That is so cool. And sometimes I'm in the clinical, side. Yeah. So I'm with patients, so it's, like, amazing.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Okay. Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. So I think that's what we're Mhmm. I think pretty good
Angie Catalina Aguilar:at too.
Bryan Dewsbery:Well, so in part of my background reading for this, and it's being played out in how you're describing this, it it it the the college has articulated that that you you try to figure out where students are at. Right? Mhmm. You prepare them for a number of things. And and that's it sounds like a simple statement, but it's actually really important because a lot of times, some colleges, unintentionally many times, are just thinking about getting you to grad school, getting you to med school, getting you to law school, or getting you to a four year institution, right?
Bryan Dewsbery:And then on the other side, some colleges are saying just get you directly to the workforce, right? And then what happens is it sets up this false tension between further education and workforce development when, in fact, both are very important. Ultimately, everybody needs employment, but also everybody needs to contribute to the economy, but also everybody should be lifelong thinkers. And so we can sort of train for that without getting into this ridiculous back and forth conversation by embedding all of these different types of opportunities, right? So, you enter in a lab, you get a sense of what going to do an advanced degree in neuroscience would look like, right?
Bryan Dewsbery:But you enter in a company, you get a sense of what workplace culture and expectations are. I'm curious, I have two questions, the first one is, have to believe it's not just the jobs lady who does this, but it sounds like there is broader, deeper, wide ranging conversations about not necessarily just careers, but what's the you of five, six, ten years from now? Who's having those conversations at a rupee where and what does it sound like? They each look other inquisitively.
Aubrey Sirman:I think some of those conversations are being held by faculty and their advisees. Angie is not my advisee, but if she were
Bryan Dewsbery:Or maybe she doesn't like you.
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. They're actually only assigned by whether or not you liked your adviser. No. But if she were, I would be having conversations with her kind of more broadly about like, you know, what is your plan? Like what would you like to do?
Aubrey Sirman:What are things that interest you? And then from there and that's part of that like high touch advising model where we you would follow-up based on what she says. In this case, like if you had told me neuroscience, I probably would have suggested you do the things that you have actually already done
Bryan Dewsbery:Which to means she has a good advisor.
Aubrey Sirman:Which means your advisor's doing their job. So I feel like that's part of it. So it's like this faculty advisee relationship. And because we only have, I usually have on average 20 to 24 advisees at a time, so you can really get to know them as a person provided they're interested in that. They still have to come meet with you and all that good stuff.
Aubrey Sirman:But like I think that's part of it. And then of course we also have the people whose actual job is to set these things up, which I think is super helpful because then that's not on the faculty to also try to build those relationships.
Bryan Dewsbery:So it's like I have a professional advisor and a faculty advisor model.
Aubrey Sirman:Right. Then so, yeah, and then we have our jobs lady who helps kind of like the detail part of that. And then of course, I think in general, as faculty, I'm currently always trying to make connections with other people. And if there's opportunities that I think I can connect Arrupe with, I'll try to do that. So I think like that's part of the broader feel.
Aubrey Sirman:And I also think like Ignatian pedagogy and Jesuits in general, right? Like this is kind of their jingle. Like this is their whole thing.
Bryan Dewsbery:Santa Clara. It's becoming like Johnny Carroll. You'll probably have fun at your annual conference, right?
Aubrey Sirman:But I think this is like their whole thing, right? Like their whole deal, which I also love, right, is meeting students where they're at and also like I think thinking broadly about your education and not thinking of it as like like a means to a job. I think they they challenge students in general to think deeper about it. Right? And I think that's Jesuit education.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. But is that something faculty and staff, probably staff, but faculty like are inculcating in? Because some of the conversations you're describing that you're having with the students about, just broadly what do you think you want to do, having a PhD in biology doesn't train you to have that conversation, No, no. My guess is
Aubrey Sirman:We didn't have a class on that, Angie.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right. My guess is it's not even just that. It's beyond the training, right? That you understand Chicago, right? You understand the history of the city, the history of segregation, everything up until now.
Bryan Dewsbery:So when you're having these conversations, this can't just be a you tell me what you want to do. You understand that the person you're talking to lives in a broader sociopolitical context that will influence how this conversation goes and what they tell you. Where is that education coming from?
Aubrey Sirman:Where is it coming from? I feel like some of that comes from just my own Mhmm. Research and, like Mhmm. Going towards that. Like, trying to So you've read both.
Aubrey Sirman:I've read some books.
Bryan Dewsbery:You've read both. You know what that book that is about Mayor Daley, the first Mayor Daley? Dude, you have
Aubrey Sirman:to read it. I should read it. That
Bryan Dewsbery:yeah. That I mean, there's many great books about Chicago history, but that to me, that's my personal
Aubrey Sirman:like Yeah. Top tier.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. Because, I mean, it explains South Side, it explains Sure. Cis Road, explain yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:But I feel
Bryan Dewsbery:like Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:Some of it though is a lot of that. Like, I literally had to do my own research. I never lived in Chicago. Like, in 2019 North Dakota. Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:I was in North Dakota before that. And then before that, I feel like I did have some understanding because I did kind of grow up in the South and in a part of Florida. I know Florida is very diverse as you There's like three parts of Florida, right? You know this. Yes, yes.
Aubrey Sirman:Do. South Florida is very different from the rural part of Florida that I ended up in which is definitely more like the Southeast. You know, it was like I had an inkling.
Bryan Dewsbery:I may have been in your near your home where were you again?
Aubrey Sirman:I grew up outside of Orlando. But, like Okay. So was in the rural weird parts of Orlando? Like, basically that part.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. So, like, just just north of, like, Palm Bay area.
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah. Yeah. Like, Titusville. Titusville. Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:Yeah.
Bryan Dewsbery:You'll go through Titusville if you get
Aubrey Sirman:to the Yeah. The really rural parts.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. If you take the 503. Sorry to get too specific on geography. This is what Florida is. That is what we do.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right? This is what we do.
Aubrey Sirman:And then I I went to Florida State for
Bryan Dewsbery:my bachelor's and
Aubrey Sirman:I spent time at Auburn for my master's. So it's like, you know, I wasn't like completely North Dakota, let's put it that way. And so yeah, when I moved to Chicago, I did a lot of reading, I did a lot of my own research about my student population as well, trying to figure out where these students came from, what are the challenges that they face. But I think that was also kind of embedded in the culture of this college.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Don't know how
Bryan Dewsbery:to explain Nobody said it out loud,
Aubrey Sirman:was yes. Like it was embedded in there and along with some of these Jesuit ideals, like meeting students where they're at. Like there's opportunities at the institutional level, but I feel like it was more it's hard to explain because I feel like it was embedded in the college and it still is. We operate under that.
Bryan Dewsbery:It speaks a lot about the importance of culture, of institutional culture. So a lot of times when I run workshops or give keynotes, the obvious question, well what do we do? And sometimes it's hard to explain, you have to work on culture, right, because culture is what drives behavior. Once the culture is there, the things that need to happen become an expectation and not, it doesn't need sometimes to written on as a long Yeah,
Aubrey Sirman:I think that's a good way to explain this.
Bryan Dewsbery:Is just how we do things.
Aubrey Sirman:And there was never like a somebody sat me down and was like, Oh, you're gonna get
Angie Catalina Aguilar:to know
Bryan Dewsbery:You're gonna
Aubrey Sirman:to know every student, right? And this is how you're gonna do it. It was kind of just expected that I get to know them. Right. You know?
Aubrey Sirman:And in like a good way, like not in a way that was like, Oh my goodness, like this sounds bad, but it's kind of it's just there and I feel like I'm hoping that you feel that in some way whenever you like, I don't know, walk into a space.
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm. Well, except the space with you. So so
Aubrey Sirman:People are gonna think Angie
Bryan Dewsbery:I know. Right? I know. I
Aubrey Sirman:know. Got roped
Angie Catalina Aguilar:into this.
Bryan Dewsbery:You're gonna you're gonna hear from HR in in a couple weeks. So I I don't wanna I don't wanna be a downer. Right, Angie? Mhmm. And I don't want to assume the worst of your next academic step.
Bryan Dewsbery:We're describing a very high touch model at this university. And think I can truthfully say that your next institution probably won't be as high touch. It doesn't necessarily mean that. She's like, I already know. But I want to be clear here.
Bryan Dewsbery:I'm not saying that it'll be a bad university or there'll be bad people or they're not good at their job. None of that stuff, right? But one of the critiques or pushbacks people give to the stuff that Aubrey and her wonderful colleagues are doing is that, you know, you're not prepared enough for the real world where you have to You know, and I fully disagree with that because at least in my own teaching, in my own classroom, I do teach the way your professor Sirman has described here, but you can do, and I'll give it as a book recommendation, 10 to 25 by
Aubrey Sirman:the Oh yeah, I read that one.
Bryan Dewsbery:We're good. High expectations, high support, So I can give you high support, which is the high touch piece, but the high support doesn't mean I'm just giving away As. It doesn't mean I'm just curving everything. It's saying, I understand that right now you need this, and my job is to bring out the best light in you, right? But the standard of this class is not shifting.
Bryan Dewsbery:Know you can write like this. I know you can explain cellular respiration back to me. By the way, I have an exam in two weeks, Angie. Hope you're ready.
Aubrey Sirman:Too Friday.
Bryan Dewsbery:Two weeks, my bad. In four days. I'm actually here doing a podcast. What kind of student?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Don't know.
Aubrey Sirman:Angie's like, I
Angie Catalina Aguilar:really So
Bryan Dewsbery:so, alright. I'm I'm straight from my question. I'm I'm trying to maybe have you comment a little bit on on I mean, you're you're a year in. Right? But this is only a two year experience.
Bryan Dewsbery:So you'll be getting out there fairly soon. You know, how are you that doesn't scare you, right? But how are you thinking about your post or rupee life in terms of moving away from this high touch situation?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:To be honest, I'm scared.
Bryan Dewsbery:Don't be.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:It's because okay. Not So in the academic part Mhmm. But just, like, the the support.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:I know that professors in the other universities, they are more, like they have their distance with the student. Like Mhmm. Yeah. Like as professor Sirman was talking about. Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yeah. She get to know each student.
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:But I think the other professors, they want to do that. They they don't have time or they just don't care. Mhmm. Because, you know, some some people, some professors, they just go and teach class. That's it.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:They don't want to know the to get to know the study. Mhmm. Right? So that's one of my, like
Bryan Dewsbery:Fears?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:It's embarrassing. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But besides that, I don't know.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:I keep relying on, like, my motivations to keep going even if it's, like, hard or
Bryan Dewsbery:What motivates you?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:My family, but the fact that I can study. Like, I know I have a lot of privilege even if I'm an immigrant with a mommy. I have privilege. So that when I think about that, it's just like, okay. I can I can keep doing this Mhmm?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:For all of the people that I know. They they can. Mhmm. So yeah.
Bryan Dewsbery:Have you ever written that down?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Nope. You
Aubrey Sirman:should do
Angie Catalina Aguilar:it. You
Bryan Dewsbery:know the camera, it can still pick up your whisper when you record it. I'm just saying. Right?
Aubrey Sirman:I hope so. Worst I hope so.
Bryan Dewsbery:Attempt at silence. You should.
Aubrey Sirman:You should really do, though.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Thank you.
Aubrey Sirman:It will help remind you, like, in those times too.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:I have it in my mind, like
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:Yes. So but there is I know. Well, we know from there is, like, scientific evidence that, like, when you write something down
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Oh, yeah. I know. I know.
Aubrey Sirman:This is it really
Bryan Dewsbery:It re arrests the psychological swatches in your brain. Yeah. That's
Angie Catalina Aguilar:my way to study. Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:I'm very I'm very big on those study skills. So
Bryan Dewsbery:Do do you get to go back to Bogota at all?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:No. No. I miss Bogota. Mhmm. I don't know when I would be able to go Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Again.
Bryan Dewsbery:So Are you able to get Colombian food? Well, I mean, obviously, at home. Right? But but is there not the same.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Really? They're the same. Yeah. In Colombia, as you know, food is more like organic. Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbery:By the way is a term I only learned when I moved to The US. We just called it
Aubrey Sirman:food. So
Bryan Dewsbery:that's a thing? Anyway, I get it now but it was just funny.
Aubrey Sirman:Just tasted fried.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yes, the texture, everything is like different. So Yeah. There are a lot of Colombian restaurants.
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:And you can, like, you can order some food that you might know, but it's not the same. It doesn't taste
Bryan Dewsbery:the same.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:So it's just like
Bryan Dewsbery:It's hard to get it. Yeah. I will say if you ever make it to Miami Yeah. The sancocho is on point.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Oh, okay.
Bryan Dewsbery:That's my favorite Colombian dish.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:San and sancocho?
Bryan Dewsbery:Sancocho. Yeah.
Aubrey Sirman:South Florida is really Yeah. It's really good.
Bryan Dewsbery:And and, you know, climate wise. Right?
Aubrey Sirman:So it leads
Bryan Dewsbery:you to get your ingredients and Mhmm. You know, so many Colombian people coming back and forth and stuff. But but So if they're if
Aubrey Sirman:you're ever at a future conference in South Florida, you can remember. Okay.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. Definitely. And I'll tell you my favorite spots to and yeah.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:It's Yeah. Good.
Aubrey Sirman:So to add on to the you know, what happens after, right, like, a rebate Mhmm. You lose the support potentially. You're not I feel like we also do try to mitigate some of that by teaching students how to advocate for themselves and And reach I think Angie does actually a great job of this. Here's my invite. Know, whatever it takes.
Aubrey Sirman:But Angie does a great job of this because you went out and you wanted to volunteer with Northwestern, and you were kind of advocating for that experience for yourself. Mhmm. You definitely reach out to me when you are struggling, and that is something you can also take to these professors that you'll have at your next institution, wherever that is. Because for example, in that 400 person class that I had to teach, I said that oftentimes I didn't get to know students and it's not because I didn't want to but it's because there was 400 of them. But if a student had emailed me specifically or like came up to meet with me after class, then I would get to know you.
Bryan Dewsbery:So once they showed agency you
Aubrey Sirman:Exactly, exactly and that's a lot easier and so like Brian was saying, it's gonna be different for sure but you can still foster those relationships. And I think that's what we hope to teach you at Arrupe, is that initially we're doing a lot of the legwork in the fostering of the relationship, but we're hoping that you can take those skills And to your next
Bryan Dewsbery:I just want to make a quick point on that is that we talk a lot about being first generation, all three of us are that, and what that means in terms of when you get to college. I also think that for any student, even continuing generation four or five generations of college, things like what you just described, nobody writes that down. What college manual will say, We're gonna teach you I mean, might say it in that flowery, Super Bowl commercial kind of way, but it's a real thing. It's a real thing at this stage of your life to learn what it means to advocate for yourself respectfully, to understand systems, be critical of power structures, not just for criticizing sake, but to follow through on an argument have people be accountable when they have power over you. These are real skills that are crucial, right?
Bryan Dewsbery:But you will hardly find that on a syllabus and you know.
Aubrey Sirman:It's not in your student manual.
Bryan Dewsbery:I wanna First of all, Angie, I wanna say thanks again. I'm really happy you're here. Oh, thank I just love your energy, you smile like you you just the enthusiasm you brought to this conversation. And I wonder if it's okay with you, how you close us off with a question I'm gonna ask you. Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbery:And this question is a question that I ask my first I teach intro bio. I teach the first semester of a two semester series. I ask them this question as the last assignment question before they take their final. Like, not a day of. Okay.
Aubrey Sirman:And it's on cellular respiration.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Oh, I'm not answering.
Bryan Dewsbery:I I took it from a scientific study which you don't have to talk about, but it's called letter to a future first year student.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbery:Alright? And the prompt I ask them, which is what I'm asking you, is to write a letter to a hypothetical future first year student. And based on your experiences, as a first semester, I guess now as a semester and a half student, think of all the successes you've had and the challenges you've had. If you went back in time, so let me just kind of amend the question a little bit. If you went back in time and met Angie on August 15 or whenever the first day of classes, and you had to advise Angie, you know, here are the things you want to do to be really successful, here's what to avoid, here's how you manage yourself, here's how you set yourself up to maximize these two years, What would you say?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:I love these questions. I would say that you should be like, you shouldn't be scared of asking. Mhmm. I know some questions can be, like, hard to ask. Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:But just don't be, like, scared. Or if you're scared, do it, but, like, just do it.
Bryan Dewsbery:Do it anyway.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yes. Mhmm. It doesn't matter. And that you can always rely on other people. Like Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Don't be scared to ask for help if you need that. Or
Bryan Dewsbery:And by other people, you mean classmates and faculty and staff? Or Yes. Specifically anybody?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Anybody that you can trust, that that you can feel like, oh, this person can understand a little bit about me.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. Yeah. And
Angie Catalina Aguilar:I would say that even if it's hard, don't just quit. Like Mhmm. You can try again and again.
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:And, yeah, don't don't be, like, close minded. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yes. And don't judge.
Bryan Dewsbery:Tell me more about those last two close tell me more about the don't be close minded and don't judge. And where where is that coming from?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Because it's more of cultural things that, you know, you grow up with some opinions and then you meet other than See? So it's just like, yeah, don't don't judge. Like, you can be empathetic. What's the word? Empathic?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Yeah. Empathetic.
Aubrey Sirman:Empathetic. Empathetic.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Empathetic. Mhmm. With other people.
Bryan Dewsbery:Mhmm.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:And see, like, has just different lives.
Bryan Dewsbery:Right. So I love that you threw in a c in the middle of your Yeah.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Heard I
Aubrey Sirman:heard it. Yes.
Bryan Dewsbery:I heard it.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Just so you know. Just so you know. I'm sorry. Angie
Bryan Dewsbery:Aubrey, thank you so much for taking time. Just so you all know, they have class in like thirty minutes.
Aubrey Sirman:Oh, thirty five. Already pre prepped this.
Bryan Dewsbery:I was able to snack them. I'm on Arrupe College's campus and I was able to get some time with them. This was really lively and it was energizing. Thank you so much.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:You for inviting me.
Bryan Dewsbery:Knowledge Unbound is brought to you by the Rios Institute for Racially Just Inclusive Open STEM Education. We are generously funded by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. Special thank you to our guests from Aruppe College, Doctor. Aubrey Sirman. Thank you to her wonderful student Angie Catalina Aguilar for sharing her story and everything she said about her time at Arrupe College thank you to our assistant producer Mr.
Bryan Dewsbery:Benjamin Pasternak and our producer Mr. Segev Amesai. Segev, thoughts?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:You know, it's very rare to see professors bringing in their students for those kinds of interviews? Because I know you've mainly interviewed professors over the course of the podcast, but it's always interesting seeing a student's
Bryan Dewsbery:Well, what's interesting about it? I mean, like, what what's the what's the thing that made it more interesting to you?
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Mainly her talking about how she was eased into, you know, the college life through doctor Sirman's work. Yeah. For one. Mhmm. And it's not really something that I've gotten to experience when I
Bryan Dewsbery:listened to. Was like, wow. Okay. I think I would have enjoyed that. That's a little sad, though.
Bryan Dewsbery:That that you haven't gotten the experience at.
Angie Catalina Aguilar:Well, I started here during COVID. That's the thing. I was still
Bryan Dewsbery:in Haiti. Okay. I was still on Zoom
Angie Catalina Aguilar:back then. You know? Isolating.
Bryan Dewsbery:That makes sense. I guess what I was concerned about is that our university didn't do a good job of looking out for you in that way. Right? And and and who knows? We're not perfect, but at the same time, COVID was a kind of a different beast.
Bryan Dewsbery:Yeah. I I I think for me, it's it's I know, the big goal of this podcast is to elevate people who are doing really transformative things in education. Right? And I think we've been fairly successful in that. But I do want people to not forget that those transformative things ultimately impact the lives of students and of people.
Bryan Dewsbery:So when we have an opportunity like we did in today's episode to bring the voice of somebody who was impacted by those decisions, it it really means a lot. So so I just, again, wanna thank both of them for sharing this story. And maybe it's a reminder for myself, for all of us, for you, who's listening that, you know, when we go out there and design our lesson plans and we make decisions about our teaching choices that there is somebody on the other end who in theory we want to make their lives and living and their choices better. Have a good week everyone Hope you enjoyed this week. See you next week.
Bryan Dewsbery:Please be excellent to each other.
Aubrey Sirman:I think Arrupe students in general are really awesome about like just telling you what's going on. Mhmm. And I think before as like an educator with those 300 students, if a student had emailed me needing flexibility, I'm not saying I wouldn't have given it. Mhmm. But like, but I'm saying like, I might have been like less empathetic towards that.
Aubrey Sirman:And I feel like it's made me a better like educator because they've come to me about their lives. They've told me more about them and I get to know more about what's going on. And I think that informed my teaching.