Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Zero Click Marketing is a marketing strategy podcast about content marketing, audience research, and how brands grow when clicks matter less. Hosted by Amanda Natividad, Chief Evangelist at SparkToro and Co-Author of the book, "Zero Click Marketing," the show explores how marketers reach audiences, build influence, and earn attention in a zero-click internet. New to the show? Start with Episode 2: What Zero Click Marketing Actually Is.
[00:00:00] Sarah Stockdale: We should just generally mistrust anyone who's promising magical results or anyone who's telling us that any of this work is gonna be easy, 'cause it, it never has been, and regardless of the tools, it, it never will be easy
[00:00:12] I'm Amanda Natividad and welcome to Zero Click Marketing.
[00:00:18] Amanda Natividad: I'm excited to have you on, Sarah, because I don't know. I mean, like, 'cause I know you... I feel like I know you well. We know each other well, and you have a unique experience of being a marketer, a founder, entrepreneur, a CEO, and you teach people marketing, but also you run your business, and I imagine you talk to a lot of other CEOs, a lot of other business leaders about their marketing stuff.
[00:00:45] Amanda Natividad: So, I feel like you have a really unique, holistic, and deep perspective on all things marketing right now. So, my first question to you is how? No. I think my first question is just, I don't know. I really do, I actually did want it to be how. Like, how do you look at all this? Like, how do, how do you... Maybe it's just this.
[00:01:10] Amanda Natividad: How do you make sense of how internet marketing has evolved over the past couple years, and how do you help business leaders understand it? Like, for the people who are not you, how do you help other people understand all this?
[00:01:27] Sarah Stockdale: Oh, it's, it's hard but also, I don't know, I feel like you, you see this too. Like, everything changes and everything stays the same. it's one of those things where there will always be like a trendy rebranding of marketing. but the core tenets of like what good marketing is tend to stay the same.
[00:01:48] Sarah Stockdale: The tactics will change for sure and I think you are someone who does a really good job of like identifying these trends, labeling them really acutely and then helping people work back from what ha- what has happened and this podcast does a really good job of that. And what we're trying to do at Growclass, what I'm always trying to do is just like, what is like the most human version of the thing that is happening and how do we tie that back to what we know to be true about marketing in general?
[00:02:18] Sarah Stockdale: Which is like really giving a sh*t about your customers, talking to people all the time, understanding their pain, putting out things that are like useful and delightful and helpful and not just for the sake of doing marketing, and focusing on w- on what works and what actually helps folks. I think there's like, our like common friend Brennan Hufford calls it like, what is his thing?
[00:02:40] Sarah Stockdale: The,
[00:02:41] Sarah Stockdale: the random acts of marketing?
[00:02:42] Amanda Natividad: uh, or the checkbox marketing?
[00:02:44] Sarah Stockdale: Checkbox
[00:02:44] Amanda Natividad: maybe both.
[00:02:46] Sarah Stockdale: Maybe both. I don't know. He's really good at like, at branding things.
[00:02:49] Sarah Stockdale: but I, I, I think there's like kind of a way to do good work that underpins all of what we're seeing change and then we have to keep on top of what's changing so that we can surface the content and the good things that we're creating in different and new ways as, as algorithms change, as billionaires try to eat up more of our time and attention, and refuse to give us, you know, clicks.
[00:03:15] Sarah Stockdale: But like I, I think, there's a long way to say if you're good at it you're still gonna be good at it and so there's always fundamentals that we can teach everyone and then we can add the layer of context on top of that.
[00:03:30] Sarah Stockdale: I love this because this gives me a really good actionable next question, which is what do you think are the most important fundamentals now?
[00:03:38] Sarah Stockdale: the most important fundamentals now,have stayed the same over time, but are shifting slightly. I think a deep understanding of your customer, their problem, their pain, how they articulate objections to buying, what are your competitors are doing and how they are contextualizing. We were looking for a new platform, for Growclass to, to host our content on. Sorry, Kajabi, if this is how you're finding out. and I went through in detail all of the competitors, like all of the... I did like really hardcore research. I didn't just go into, ChatGPT or Google Overview and say like, "Hey, what's the best one?" I went on demos with all of them. Like, this is like a weeks-long process, and the one that we ended up choosing is head and shoulders better than the front runner platforms. Like, so much better for community, for content, for everything. And they have done an incredible job of building a wonderful product and a terrible job of telling anyone that product exists and that it is as great as it is. and that's really hard because you've done the hard work of getting product market fit, of finding a solution to your customer's problems, and then you have to articulate that really well and really strategically across the platforms where people are searching for you. And if I hadn't got on those discovery calls and actually done a demo, 0% chance I would've chosen that product based on just what I found on the internet.
[00:05:03] Sarah Stockdale: So I think there's understanding the pain and doing deep customer research and audience research and really understanding what people need, and then there's like the translating that to articulate that against your competitors and do a really good job of kind of putting yourself up against what is out there and handling the objections of folks who are looking at multiple different opt- options. and a lot of that is content, and some of that is, is ads and building credibility on social. But I think like the, the step one is identify the pain and the problem, and step two is like how do we contextualize and talk about that pain and that problem in a way that's going to attract folks to our solution? so deep empathy and good writing.
[00:05:44] Amanda Natividad: So I fully agree. I just think it's so interesting because you articulated that much better, more concretely than I would have. And this is... I would have said great writing, and this is why you are a CEO and I am a content marketer.
[00:06:01] Sarah Stockdale: You are a CEO. Stop that.
[00:06:04] Amanda Natividad: Of myself, yeah. Of,
[00:06:06] Sarah Stockdale: Yeah. Which is a huge brand, girl. don't... I'm not letting you do that to my friend Amanda
[00:06:13] Amanda Natividad: That's very kind. Okay, we'll move on from that. I do wanna geek out a little bit on the community platform you picked. What makes it much better than everybody else? Or rather, what makes it so much better for you and for Growclass?
[00:06:27] Sarah Stockdale: a lot of what we were looking at kind of looked like Facebook. and I don't believe that a guy whose original intention was ranking people on hotness is going to come up with the best version of a platform for building community. That's not the guy. That's not the team that's going to, to be great at this. And so what I think happened when people were building community platforms is they just copy-paste from the most popular social media of that time. I don't think a static feed is very useful when it comes to engagement and conversation. I think it really matters the way in which you onboard someone into a community and the context that you give them about who is in this space and how we talk to each other and how we interact. And the tools that you have need to be simple enough that, like, we're not reinventing wheels.
[00:07:15] Sarah Stockdale: We're not taking people off of platforms that are behavioral. We use Slack, and a lot of the pitch of, like, these tools is like, "Don't use Slack. Come use our thing." And I'm like, "Absolutely the f**k not." Slack is behavioral for my people. They open it up every single day for work. I wanna just hang out where they need help. Like, this is what they're already doing. The last thing I need is to train a new behavior. That is really, really hard. and Slack is doing a really great job of this thing. This is where the people are. This is where they're behaviorally interacting every single day. I just wanna make it really easy for them to get this extra help. So if you're pitching me to try to train someone to open an app every day, I've done that. I, like, worked in product marketing for years. It's really f**king hard. And, like, I would much rather take the easy higher engagement route every single time. And so if you make that really easy for me, if you integrate with Slack, if you, like, prompt people to open Slack, like, wonderful, beautiful.
[00:08:09] Sarah Stockdale: Like, I am absolutely going to come and use this platform.
[00:08:12] Amanda Natividad: So what does that look like for the user that it integrates with Slack? That now I'm wearing my product marketing hat. I
[00:08:19] Amanda Natividad: mean, I know, I know how integration works, and what I mean is like for the user, what does that mean? So they go into Slack and the community is there?
[00:08:26] Sarah Stockdale: So they, so there's two, there's kind of two pieces to it. Slack is where kind of the engagement and conversation happens. And that's the thing you open every day. Like, you are opening Slack every single day. if you're in your work Slack and you have a question about marketing, you can just tell it, go, come into Growclass, ask and, and engage there. Perfect. All I need to do is get you to open the, like, learning platform once a week, 'cause I already have your daily active usage in Slack. But if it connects and I can send messages and build automations in this platform that push into your DMs in Slack, that makes my life a lot easier. It's much higher engagement for scale. And, I'm just like, instead of kind of training multiple behaviors where like, you can ask a question here or you can ask a question here. You could message this person here or you could message them here. That sucks as an experience. I want, if you are in the learning platform and you need to talk to your cohort or whatever it is, it just pops it open automatically. and I can build these, like, really robust automations to message groups directly in Slack from the platform that I'm just sitting in all day.
[00:09:34] Amanda Natividad: Oh, wait, that's really cool.
[00:09:36] Sarah Stockdale: It's really good
[00:09:37] Amanda Natividad: yeah, so for the user, they're just in Slack being like, "Oh, h- w- how do you do this thing in, you know, in demand generation? Like, what, what is that resource again?" And then they can, and then from there it's like you can message the, through the platform or whatever it is.
[00:09:51] Amanda Natividad: They then go to the, what is essentially to me, like a dynamic learning, learning platform. it's like, it's a platform, yes, but it talks to Slack, and Slack kind of talks to it, right?
[00:10:04] Sarah Stockdale: And what I love, like from a, from like a product hat perspective is like, " Hey, I'm not gonna try to force my user who is like a learning community owner or community manager, I'm not gonna try to force them to train this new behavior. That's gonna be really hard. It's gonna drop their engagement. It's going to confuse their users.
[00:10:23] Sarah Stockdale: I'm just gonna integrate with the thing that I know they're using, even though like it's probably better for me as a product if I just force them to use this for everything, 'cause that's gonna increase my activity levels." But it's like, I don't know. I, I spent too long trying to get people to open apps as a career
[00:10:41] Sarah Stockdale: and like I just, I know too much
[00:10:45] Amanda Natividad: No, I, I'm, I'm with you. Like, you can barely force it even to your own employees when you're the employer, right?
[00:10:53] Sarah Stockdale: 100%, yes. Even when you are paying a salary and directly incentivizing someone, they probably won't do it
[00:11:01] Amanda Natividad: They won't. They won't. They have to be told over and over again. I remember working corporate, like we had to book our travel through Concur, and that was how it worked. But there were still some people who like wouldn't do it or had to be reminded over and over, and it was like, "You need to book your travel here so that we as a company can pay for it."
[00:11:20] Sarah Stockdale: And honestly, what's a better carrot than like f- a free flight? But like still, I'm an ADHD girly, like you can't make
[00:11:26] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. There are still people who will book on their credit card and be like, "Can you just pay me back?"
[00:11:31] Sarah Stockdale: Can you just reimburse me? Of course
[00:11:33] Amanda Natividad: the company has to.
[00:11:34] Sarah Stockdale: Yeah, they
[00:11:35] Sarah Stockdale: have to.
[00:11:35] Amanda Natividad: They ha-
[00:11:36] Sarah Stockdale: So like
[00:11:36] Amanda Natividad: just... they actually can't say no because you didn't follow the rule. they have to actually pay you back.
[00:11:42] Sarah Stockdale: So now we just have two separate processes that both kind of suck.
[00:11:46] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. Yeah,
[00:11:47] Sarah Stockdale: No, I don't wanna do that. Just one thing
[00:11:49] Amanda Natividad: Okay, I love that. So the lesson here for me is honestly for all product marketers and community marketers, it's you can't really train the user behavior of logging into a new place. You just can't.
[00:12:02] Sarah Stockdale: It's really, really, really hard.
[00:12:05] Sarah Stockdale: And like the, the other thing that I really, that I really loved is like, it doesn't look like Facebook or a spreadsheet. I feel like a lot of them are like, "Hey, this is your white and blue thing." And I'm like, "I... That sucks." Like, it's 2026. I would rather it look like I built it than, like, or else I'm just
[00:12:25] Sarah Stockdale: gonna build it myself.
[00:12:26] Sarah Stockdale: I don't want it to look like every other, excuse my language, bitch.
[00:12:30] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. And, and like whatever the user behavior is of Facebook today, that's not how people are using Growclass.
[00:12:40] Sarah Stockdale: No. And nor would I want them to. And I, I truly hope that not a lot of Girl Class folks are Facebook folks.
[00:12:44] Sarah Stockdale: I, I think those Venn diagrams are two circles.
[00:12:46] Amanda Natividad: They're two circles. I
[00:12:47] Amanda Natividad: mean, like I'm in, I'm still in some Facebook groups today, but I think a lot of us are because they're inevitable. You know?
[00:12:55] Amanda Natividad: Like there are the buy nothing groups on Facebook and those are fine, right? my neighborhood has a Facebook
[00:13:01] Sarah Stockdale: It's always that. It's always like mom group,
[00:13:04] Sarah Stockdale: neighborhood group, and Facebook Marketplace. Like that's pretty
[00:13:08] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. And it's like it is what it is. But even then, like I don't scroll. Like if I go to that group on Facebook, it's not because I want to scroll a feed of content, right?
[00:13:18] Amanda Natividad: Like I'm not there for content. I'm there because like there was a suspicious person caught on someone's Ring camera in the neighborhood and I wanna see if there's an update, right? So like that's like the, that's not the same as like content.
[00:13:33] Sarah Stockdale: No. That's not the same as like, "I'm gonna go here to learn and build a real rich kind of engaging community." Like, those, those... Stuff, stuff can be two things
[00:13:41] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. Okay, you said something earlier that I wanna go back to. It was about the notion of, how do you know what's working? And, you know, that's kind of the classic attribution question that I'm always wanting to talk to people about, ask people about, largely because people always ask me about it.
[00:13:59] Amanda Natividad: And I always say attribution is broken, but it's been broken. It never really worked that well, and I think, I really do feel like it's kind of just today, like 2026, that people are really starting to reckon with that. Like, people are really starting to be like, "Oh, hey, I think there's something wrong with the attribution," when like I've have felt like, but it has always been this way, it's just that it's gotten worse.
[00:14:28] Amanda Natividad: And I think it's gotten worse because we have things like, blocking analytic software, right? Most of us, most of us, anyone who's listening, I bet you, and, and present company included, right? We
[00:14:39] Sarah Stockdale: Oh yeah, for
[00:14:40] Amanda Natividad: ad blocking software on our browsers, right? We all do it. It's like 30 to 60% of people, closer to 60% for tech savvy people, right?
[00:14:48] Amanda Natividad: We have, what else do we have? We have the privacy, policies and legislation like GDPR, right? Like those things that prevent companies from tracking a lot of user behavior. There's also multi-device tracking, right? It's something like two to three devices per person worldwide, so we can barely, if ever, right, we can barely even track those individual journeys.
[00:15:13] Amanda Natividad: So the pre-login track-ins, that doesn't work. And then there's also dark social, right? There are social networks, platforms hiding whole referral strings. All the Slack engagement growth class is getting, if you guys are getting links to, when you're getting links to your community, that's all showing as direct traffic, right?
[00:15:30] Amanda Natividad: It's not showing as like, oh, Slack sent X amount of traffic, right? Slack, WhatsApp, Discord, all that 100% marked as direct.
[00:15:39] Sarah Stockdale: Just looks like direct. And like we get a lot, we see a lot of direct traffic that we kind of have to like figure out and break down because so much of our business is referral-based. Like so much is just like direct communication.
[00:15:50] Sarah Stockdale: People being like, "Hey, I took this. You should take this," goes in a text message.
[00:15:54] Sarah Stockdale: Like w- we have to... I'm like, "Hey, Amanda, do you know Shelly? Seems like you might know Shelly, and you have to tell me like how you, how you got here." It's, no, it's been broken for a really long time. And it's broken for us. Like it's funny, I'm investigating this thing right now where some of our sales emails are getting 8% click-through rate recently.
[00:16:15] Amanda Natividad: Wait, 8%?
[00:16:16] Sarah Stockdale: 8%.
[00:16:17] Amanda Natividad: Uh-huh
[00:16:18] Sarah Stockdale: And it looks like the traffic's is actually coming to the website.
[00:16:22] Sarah Stockdale: But there's no way in hell sales emails are getting 8% click-through rate. So something, something is happening and I have to figure out what it is. And I feel like a lot of marketing right now is like The gut reaction of knowing that something can't be correct when you're looking at the data, and then having to go on like a wild goose chase of like figuring out what happened.
[00:16:44] Sarah Stockdale: and like 51% of traffic on the, on the internet is AI now.
[00:16:48] Sarah Stockdale: So like, we're, we're walking through a dark forest, a lot of us. and I think that like it goes back to what I was saying at the beginning, like deep customer empathy and kind of understanding what is normal and w- what might be outlier use cases when you're, when you're actually looking at like whatever data you can cobble together and like hope is maybe decently accurate. but like we know that the, the main way people find Growclass is through referral. And so that's incredible if you think about cost of conversion, but really hard when it comes to actually like tracking attribution and figuring out what's working. But we've been doing this for six years now, and so we know we have our like three top channels.
[00:17:31] Sarah Stockdale: That's where most of our folks come from. And if we're doing anything different and experimental, we'll do our best to like sift the signal from the noise, but it's never going to be perfect. and also I think we just have to keep trying sh*t and knowing that like we won't always have perfect data as to whether or not it worked, but we will have general signal which will point us in hopefully the right-ish direction most of the time
[00:17:55] Amanda Natividad: Absolutely. Right? And that's what, that's the big thing when I say attribution's broken. the follow-on there is not, "Oh, so then we shouldn't track it." It's, no, we should still measure success, but most of the time it's you do it by retroactive studies,
[00:18:11] Amanda Natividad: right? Like, you look at what happened. You don't look at what the platforms are just telling you.
[00:18:16] Amanda Natividad: It's like you go back and go look at how was the engagement on that post? How many page views did we get on this thing? Did we get people messaging us about that thing we talked about, about that camp- campaign? but that is funny about the 8% click-through rate thing you mentioned, because that's the kind of number that any experienced marketer would be like, "That's not right."
[00:18:37] Amanda Natividad: Like, you,
[00:18:38] Sarah Stockdale: no, I don't believe you
[00:18:40] Amanda Natividad: 3% or 4% click-through rate, you'd be like, "Oh, we're crushing it," right?
[00:18:44] Sarah Stockdale: I would still be like, "I'm gonna check on that."
[00:18:46] Sarah Stockdale: Like 4 or 5%, I'm like
[00:18:47] Sarah Stockdale: "I'm gonna check on that." 8%, I'm like, "It's wrong. So like,
[00:18:50] Sarah Stockdale: why is it wrong
[00:18:51] Sarah Stockdale: Let's, let's, go on a little treasure hunt here and figure out what's wrong." But I think that's like the ...When people are like, "Anyone can be a marketer now because they have AI tools," no.
[00:19:01] Sarah Stockdale: Like, you have to have had real-world experience doing these things and have enough reps to be able to even point out that something might be wrong.
[00:19:08] Amanda Natividad: Yeah.
[00:19:09] Amanda Natividad: I say that
[00:19:09] Sarah Stockdale: ask ChatGPT. Like,
[00:19:11] Sarah Stockdale: that's in- that's insane
[00:19:12] Amanda Natividad: I think with AI, I think anybody can be a sh*tty marketer.
[00:19:16] Sarah Stockdale: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:19:18] Sarah Stockdale: Anyone could have always been a sh*tty
[00:19:19] Amanda Natividad: exactly, like...
[00:19:20] Sarah Stockdale: just do it at a higher volume and pace
[00:19:22] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. it's, that actually reminds me, I saw a really good comment from Heike Young over on LinkedIn. She commented on one of my posts and was like, you know, I also... She's a marketer, right?
[00:19:32] Amanda Natividad: And she works with a lot of, uh, developers or coders, and it's funny how all the marketers also seem to think anybody can be a coder with AI, but all the coders think anybody can do marketing with AI. And it's like, yeah, when you don't know the industry or the task at hand really, really well, yeah, AI looks like a genius.
[00:19:52] Sarah Stockdale: And if you've never worked on, like I, I used to be a product marketing manager on a development team and like I know for sure anything I make in Claude Code is going to be extremely unsafe because I spent so much time working with security engineers in my youth. But like, if I didn't have that, it would look like magic.
[00:20:09] Sarah Stockdale: And I don't know, I feel like we should just generally mistrust anyone who's promising magical results or anyone who's telling us that any of this work is gonna be easy, 'cause it, it never have b- has been, and regardless of the tools, it, it never will be easy
[00:20:22] Amanda Natividad: Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is a good note for me to add nuance, to add nuance to this too, because what we're also saying, friends, is, for people listening, right, it's, it's not, "Oh, now this means never trust Claude." It's a, it's not that. Because I use Claude, I use Claude to build, my personal website, for instance.
[00:20:42] Sarah Stockdale: It looks great.
[00:20:43] Amanda Natividad: It looks great. However, the nuance is I don't capture anybody's personal information. I'm not processing payments on my... It's a static website. It's my content, right? It's the thing that I put it in the HTML. Well, Claude helped me, right? So it's like, yeah, that's fine. That's not what we're saying is, like, risky or unsafe.
[00:21:03] Amanda Natividad: It's like, when you're thinking about handling user information, passing along, info A to point B, like, the, you know, those things, processing payments, like, that's when you have to be careful. or what, even just when the, when the tool is, or when the agent is acting for you, right? Like I said, I have a static website.
[00:21:24] Amanda Natividad: I put in the code. I deployed it myself. There's nothing running in the background that will overwrite it or change it, right? So it's pretty risk-free to me, right? It also doesn't get a ton of traffic, right?
[00:21:36] Sarah Stockdale: People are gonna hire you 'cause they, they know you're brilliant. They're not gonna hire you 'cause they read your website
[00:21:42] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. Or they, maybe they will now.
[00:21:45] Sarah Stockdale: Ooh, go to Amanda's website and then hire her. But like you, you already know. It's, it's a circle. But I think there's like really great surface use cases of like this can do step maybe one to three. But once now we have to go step four to 10, like okay, we need someone who's like been around the block and who's done this
[00:22:04] Sarah Stockdale: for a minute or else it's gonna turn out badly.
[00:22:08] Sarah Stockdale: Like we work a lot with, government and we do a lot of training and upskilling and workforce development for government and there's... I would never vibe code something that I'm putting user information into.
[00:22:17] Sarah Stockdale: That's extremely unsafe. I wouldn't do that even if we weren't working with government, but it, it adds an extra layer of like thoughtfulness to everything that we have to do and at some point you have to put on like your big person pants and be like, "I need to make something w- with, with meat to it, with teeth to it."
[00:22:34] Amanda Natividad: Yeah, totally. It's how y- it's how you know something will be working. It's how you take something to the next level. It's just, it's how you know, it's how you know it's working and where you go next.
[00:22:45] Sarah Stockdale: Yeah.
[00:22:46] Amanda Natividad: that's what it's about.
[00:22:47] Amanda Natividad: okay, I know we're coming up on time, and I think we're over.
[00:22:50] Amanda Natividad: I do wanna talk about the direct traffic piece. So I know the 8% sales thing you're still working through, and you've been doing the work and understanding your direct traffic, right? So like similarly, most of SparkToro's traffic is marked as direct. It's something like close to 80% of our traffic is direct.
[00:23:09] Amanda Natividad: Now, you and I both know no one's going to our we- like 80% of people are not going to our websites directly,
[00:23:15] Sarah Stockdale: They're not typing it into the search bar.
[00:23:18] Amanda Natividad: right. So we are doing the work, the hidden work, right, of the treasure hunt, right? Like you said, the treasure hunt, figuring out what's actually working. How have you been figuring out the direct traffic mess?
[00:23:30] Amanda Natividad: Asking for a friend.
[00:23:33] Sarah Stockdale: We, so like we've added attribution to our checkout pages and tend to rely more on that for like our direct conversion. we made it a required field to like, "How did, how'd you get here?" I also know, and like Rand's done research on people lying about that,
[00:23:50] Sarah Stockdale: so I'm like literally nothing is perfect.
[00:23:54] Sarah Stockdale: I, I use AlertMouse.
[00:23:57] Sarah Stockdale: I see when we are being talked about on Reddit or when we're being kind of surfaced in more dark social channels that are not going to appear in our Google Analytics dashboard. But to be honest with you, it's still kind of a sh*t show. Like it is, it is still kind of piecing it together. And what's good about our business is that it's a people business.
[00:24:19] Sarah Stockdale: Like we are talking to every single one of these customers. We are going to like interface with every single person, so we can dig in more qualitatively to the trends for every cohort on how people are arriving to Growclass. And that is, we're really lucky that we get to do that. Like we just have all of our customers in a Slack channel.
[00:24:38] Sarah Stockdale: Like if you've converted, I like can DM you on Slack.
[00:24:42] Sarah Stockdale: And so like
[00:24:43] Amanda Natividad: you've converted,
[00:24:43] Sarah Stockdale: a very different...
[00:24:44] Sarah Stockdale: Yeah.
[00:24:45] Sarah Stockdale: like we're friends now. Like we- we're besties.
[00:24:47] Sarah Stockdale: So I have a very direct line to our customers and we're constantly doing, like Bella on my team right now is having like a, a thousand coffees. Like she's just talking to everyone, because we're, we're planning for a new product launch and we wanna get, we wanna kind of dig into a lot of this more like social behavior of how people are finding Growclass. but yeah, it's, it's hard like asking for a friend, what are you, what are you...
[00:25:12] Amanda Natividad: No, totally. I do think AlertMouse is a really good tool to bring up because one, you can make a free alert or I think, I think it's one alert that's free, like always, and you get all the, all the alerts. You get e- daily email digest, whatever it is, and it catches all, it catches you care about.
[00:25:33] Amanda Natividad: Because you're right, I actually, I don't often go into AlertMouse. I look at the emails that come in, and you're right. Like I see, I, that's how I see everything that comes in. I will admit, sometimes it bums me out because I see a lot of people plagiarizing ZeroClickMarketing, but you know what? You gotta just work through it.
[00:25:51] Sarah Stockdale: I try to tag you on those LinkedIn
[00:25:54] Amanda Natividad: You
[00:25:55] Amanda Natividad: know what? Don't. Or
[00:25:56] Sarah Stockdale: especially if they're selling something. I'm like, "Dude,
[00:25:58] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. I've, you know what? I
[00:26:00] Sarah Stockdale: know who made that term."
[00:26:01] Amanda Natividad: There's a book on Amazon. I don't want to give airtime to it. But there's a book that is not
[00:26:06] Sarah Stockdale: go give it a one-star review. I'm giving it a one-star review directly after this.
[00:26:10] Amanda Natividad: Oh yeah, thank you. I'd
[00:26:12] Sarah Stockdale: I don't think zero stars is a thing, but I will do one. So uncool.
[00:26:18] Amanda Natividad: yeah. Okay,
[00:26:20] Sarah Stockdale: out there and you're planning on plag- plagiarizing Amanda, I will come into your comments section and troll you, and it'll be really fun for both of us, but more, mostly for me.
[00:26:29] Amanda Natividad: Yeah, and you guys heard it here first. Sarah is the founder and CEO of her company, so she is not beholden to a boss's rules, just her own
[00:26:39] Sarah Stockdale: I can say some garbage on the internet and my boss seems cool with it. She seems like it's gonna be okay.
[00:26:46] Amanda Natividad: I love that. all right. I think this is kind of a, kind of a very natural wrap-up point. Um, any last words? Any last words? Any last words
[00:26:55] Sarah Stockdale: into spooky season well, Amanda. I like it. Before
[00:27:00] Sarah Stockdale: you go to Google Analytics jail. Um, uh, last words. I think we should still look to folks like you, read Zero Click Marketing, take courses from people who actually know what they're doing and, and who care about you. stay away from the grift, the general grift, or anyone who's advertising magic or ease, 'cause nothing is easy and nothing is magic. and be, be kind and good to each other on the internet, 'cause people don't do that well
[00:27:29] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. Be kind and good to each other. Fully agree. Thanks for joining, friend
[00:27:36] Sarah Stockdale: Thank you for having me.
[00:27:38] Amanda: Thank you for listening or watching Zero Click Marketing. We'll see you next week.