Taking the Lead | Ruthless Prioritization

This week we're sitting down with Dani Landolt, the first-ever Chief Impact Officer at Leader Dogs for the Blind! We talk with her about her new position and the work she's doing at Leader Dog. 

What is Taking the Lead ?

Leader Dogs for the Blind empowers people who are blind or visually impaired with the tools for safe and independent daily travel. Our goal is to educate, advocate, and share real life experiences of those with blindness. Come learn, laugh, and grow with us.

Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host, Leslie Hoskins and Timothy Kino. It's already July, which is wild. It went by fast. I know. Summer's flying by. It is, and it was just. 4th of July weekend slash my birthday weekend. Oh my, yes.
Oh boy. Yeah, just a little bit ago. How was it? What'd you do? I went to Buffalo, um, New York to see my, we stayed with my sister, brother-in-Law and my niece, and we saw the Savannah Bananas, if you know who they are. Yeah. Was it so fun? So fun.
Leslie: Timothy, do you know? Well, yeah, Timothy, you have to know who the Savannah Bananas are.
Right.
Timothy: My wife was talking about them a couple weeks ago. I checked it out on YouTube. So yeah, they're, it's a baseball team, like the Harlem Globe Trotters.
Christina: Yeah. They don't actually like really play baseball. It's like more, um, entertainment like Yeah, like the Harlem Globe Trotters. It's like my kind of sporting activity to watch.
Leslie: Yeah. Right.
Christina: [00:01:00] Yeah. 'cause it's entertaining. They
Leslie: wear costumes. They wear costumes. Yeah. You might like the
Timothy: colors of their costumes.
Leslie: And they sing and they have like a social media. Yeah, I saw an interview one time with somebody from it and they were talking about like they did all this research on like the length of a, that you can keep people's attention at a game and all this different stuff and I thought that was really interesting.
Christina: Yeah, well leading up to what we watched a lot of their videos and stuff and all the things that they do, so it really hyped us up for it.
Leslie: Not to spend too much time on this, but I wonder when you try out for the team, if you have to be good at baseball and also like. Social media, dancing and singing? I, yeah, probably, I would think.
Timothy: I'll just stick with the Atlanta Braves.
Christina: Yeah, there we go. Keep it simple. Timothy, how has the weather been in Georgia?
Timothy: Oh, July. So you know what that means. It's hotter than a firecracker, so, uh, yeah. Huh, than a firecracker. It's rough in the summertime with glacier and stuff like that. Yeah. We just try to keep right outta the heat don't work or unless I have to, unless I gotta go somewhere.
You know, if we do anything either [00:02:00] late at night or early. Early, early in the morning.
Christina: Yeah. That's gotta be challenging. Yeah, because she's got that dark coat too.
Timothy: Yeah. She soaks up that sun. Trust me. She really does. So, uh, it's rough on her in the summertime down here, but, uh, she does a good job. She's always faithful and as long as she gets her treats, she's, she's good.
Leslie: Do you ever have to put the little booties on her?
Timothy: If it's mid-afternoon? I always test the, uh, the concrete with my hand. Yeah. I guess it's a ten second rule. If it burns you within 10 seconds, the little, uh, rubber booties goes on her.
Leslie: Yeah.
Timothy: And uh, yeah, so we gotta go to Chicago in August, so those definitely are going to Chicago and uh, 'cause it'll be hot, so.
Yeah. Yeah. That's how you test it and you just try to not burn her little paws.
Leslie: Yeah, absolutely. Does she walk? Kind of, does it take her a minute when she comes to 'em? Oh yeah.
Timothy: She, she hates it. When she puts those boots on she flops and you can hear her flopping and everybody's, they match their purple, so they match her black coat and everybody says how cute they are.
Yeah. But she just [00:03:00] does not like 'em at all.
Leslie: Aw, it is. I know. I feel bad for 'em, but it's so cute when they first put 'em on and they're trying to like figure it all out. Yeah. I'm like, it doesn't work.
Timothy: You know, like a dog looks like with a cone of shame around her. Yeah. You know, it's like the, the shame of these little boots, I, I would hate them.
So that's where she walks. Yeah.
Leslie: Well, it's fun. Well, hopefully you guys continue to stay cool during the rest of the summer and Chicago will be fun in August. Yeah, it's a fun little summer. Yeah. Getaway. Anything fun?
Timothy: I'm going up there for Lion Leader Dog. Oh, look it doing the, I'm doing the, uh, Freeport dog and pony car show up there for the
Christina: Oh.
Weekend sounds
Timothy: so, yeah.
Christina: Like an interesting weekend.
Timothy: Yeah. This, uh, lions Club is a top dog club.
Christina: Nice. They give
Timothy: $10,000 a year out of this car show, and they asked if I would come up and to be there for the event. And I, that's what I'm gonna be doing. That's if you're in Freeport area, come and see me. Yeah.
Christina: Well thank you for doing that, Timothy.
Leslie: That's fantastic. Well, I hope it's wonderful, as I'm sure it will [00:04:00] be. And let us know if we can help with anything. But thank you.
Timothy: No problem. I enjoyed doing it.
Leslie: All right. Well, today's guest is finally in studio with us. She is a mentor of both Christina and I and someone we referred to in a few previous episodes, but we're very excited to finally get her here to the recording studio.
Christina: Yes, dunny Landal. Joined Leader Dogs for the Blind in August of 2014, and held roles as campaign manager. Director of Corporate Relations, chief Marketing Officer, and now Leader Dog's First ever Chief Impact Officer. In her time with Leader Dog Denny has developed a corporate sponsorship program, launched three new fundraising events, and developed a current leader dog logo, brand standards, and brand story.
She oversaw corporate and third party fundraising, volunteer engagement, outreach in all marketing and communication functions for the organization. Today we're gonna learn about her new role as Chief Impact [00:05:00] Officer
Timothy: Donny, we're excited you're at the podcast today. Congratulations on your new role. So tell us what an impact officer is.
Dani: Well, thank you Timothy. And first, I have to start by saying thank you, uh, for inviting me here today. I have to. Be certain that I am the very first fan of taking the week. So I, I continue to be your biggest fan, but I can think, I can say confidently that I was the very first fan. Yeah. First show listener for sure.
Well,
Christina: I mean, dunny, you were the one who told me I'd be doing this podcast. So welcomed you into Leader Dog. Yeah. And then
Dani: immediately let you know you'd be starting a new podcast and look at how far we've come. Very true. Very true. So thank you guys so much for having me. It's a, a pleasure listening to you guys, uh, e every other week and, uh, happy to finally be joining you.
And so, uh, gosh, what is a Chief Impact Officer? Uh, I think that's a [00:06:00] journey we're all taking together. Um, but certainly in, in my new role, um, I continue to oversee. Outreach and volunteer engagement for the organization, but now also, uh, have the real privilege to oversee our guide dog services, our client services, our canine center, uh, which definitely includes our off-campus volunteers, puppy raising and breeding host homes.
Uh, so a, a a large area, um, but one I'm really excited to, to be a part of with, with all of the areas of the organization. We get to touch.
Leslie: We should mention when this was announced at an all team meeting, that everybody was pumped, right? Like that all of the people in training and dog care and everybody was so excited to welcome Dunny.
Um, yeah, which I think shows a lot, but
Christina: at first the way it was announced was that the chief marketing officer was no longer gonna be a position and mouse a drop. Because I thought Dunny was leaving. That was a fun little, it was a [00:07:00] fun little surprise at the end.
Dani: I did get a text message during that meeting that said my heart had just stopped when they announced the chief marketing officer position had been eliminated.
Uh, but that is because, uh, we made the decision to combine that with the Chief Philanthropy Officer. So that's now the chief Philanthropy and marketing officer role.
Leslie: Yes. Which is very exciting as well. But it definitely, yeah, everybody was kind of like holding their breath, but yet Dunny was standing in the corner.
So we're like, well this is kind of weird. She's still here. Has anybody told her yet that this is happening?
Timothy: That's not a good way. Yeah. To get rid of somebody.
Leslie: Uh, but then the good news of being the new chief impact officer, so what are some things that, you kind of mentioned what you're overseeing, but what are you looking forward to in this role?
What are you gonna take on?
Dani: Yeah. So there, there's a lot that, that we have, uh, plans to do. But what I'm most looking forward to and what I've been spending my first few months in this role doing is really getting to out and, and speaking to, and [00:08:00] spending time with. All of the areas that, that I oversee, uh, that's spending time out with puppy counselors and puppy raisers.
It's shadowing the team and working shifts in the canine center, uh, following our clients out when they're here for guide dog training. Just really spending time listening. As you know, Melissa Weiss's view has been, um, making sure that we're putting the client voice at the center of. Everything that we do.
And so the best way we can do that is by engaging in conversations with our clients. And so I've really spent this, these first few months, uh, listening and absorbing, uh, so that I can have the best information available to, to help, uh, support the organization in the best way we can as we move
Christina: forward.
Absolutely. And so this is a different side of the organization that you're used to being on, so what are some things that are exciting to you that you've learned so far? What I
Dani: am certain of is that leader dog has the [00:09:00] very best people, and I mean that across the board. We have the best clients, we have the best team members, we have the very best volunteers.
There is nobody more passionate, no community more caring, no community, more dedicated to the mission. Everybody involved in our organization, and that's really important, especially when you bring in, uh, the dogs into what we do, uh, because we have a real obligation to every dog that's part of Leader Dog.
Um, because. We bring them into this world and they're our responsibility from the moment, even before they're born, uh, all the way through retirement. And what I feel confident in is that because of this community, because of the dedication and passion of everybody involved in Leader Dog, uh, that, that we are.
About to reach new heights and, and really the sky's the limit for Leader Dog, and that's what I'm so excited about in this new role. I already knew it, but getting to see it [00:10:00] has really confirmed that for me and it's a, it's a privilege. Absolutely.
Timothy: I. So what areas are you really focused on right now for the future?
Dani: Yeah, Timothy. So right, it, it would be easy to come in and be overwhelmed and try to do everything right. And, and that's what we talked to the team about as well. And so we're really focusing, I, I'll use the words ruthless prioritization. Uh, it's a real focus of mine, uh, in the leadership team, which is.
Being focused to make sure that we're tackling challenges in the order that we need to. If we try to do everything all at once, then you do a lot of things sort of well. But if we can concentrate on a few things and do those very well, it will set us up so we can tackle the next challenges. So for us, I'm gonna list it in three top areas of ruthless prioritization.
It's removing barriers for our clients. It's our breeding program and it's team member retention with a focus on our guide [00:11:00] dog Mobility instructors.
Leslie: Yes. Thank you for bringing that up. One of the things that we've talked about quite a bit over the years, and we're still trying to share with others, is a couple of the ways that we are different from other organizations or agencies or the ways in which we remove barriers.
Do you mind kinda sharing those?
Dani: Absolutely. I think that's, it's very important and we know that there are so many barriers that our clients face in, in obtaining services. And so the easier that we can make that, uh, the more important that is, we want, we want to be available to, to everyone. And some of the ways we do that is we don't require a vocational goal.
Uh, meaning if somebody's not looking to get into the workforce or rejoin, rejoin the workforce. That's not a problem for us. We're still willing to, to serve you. Uh, we have no limit on the number of service hours that somebody can receive for us. We like to talk about this with our orientation mobility program.
Somebody comes for that first week of training and perhaps they're just getting the basics down and just learning how to start [00:12:00] navigating with their cane. We want them to know that they're welcome to come back for, for a second week and and beyond, so that we can continue to work on developing those skills.
We don't have an upper age limit. Uh, for as long as somebody's able and willing to work safely, uh, with both their dog and, and or their cane, uh, we're gonna be here to provide that service, uh, because we know that independence is important to all of us For. For all of our lives. And, and of course we don't require a formal referral.
Uh, we'll take a referral from anybody, uh, but it's certainly not a requirement. So people find us, whether it be through the website or social media, uh, or, or from hearing about us from another professional or, or in the service industry. You know, we wanna bring everybody in that we can. And, and one other item I'll sort of add on to this, Leslie, is just also our focus on.
Our clients who are on our wait list, we also will have plans in the coming year for that because that's something that's maybe a little bit new, uh, coming out of the pandemic. And so [00:13:00] that becomes a barrier as well, uh, wait times for, for services, and that's something that we'll be tackling in the upcoming years as well.
Yeah. And Timothy, I
Christina: know that you've talked a bit about in the very beginning of the podcast, your experience finding service and, and stuff. Would you mind sharing a bit about how you found Leader Dog and what it was like for you to find services?
Timothy: Well, in Georgia, it was very difficult. Uh, when I was like 48 years old, I reached out to my voc rehab and the first thing I was told was I, I was too old and, uh, that they couldn't help me at all.
And, uh, that was devastating because I was reaching out, trying to find some help. And, um, if it hadn't been for Leader Dog, you know, uh, the, uh, situation would've got much worse. Uh, it, it was very disheartening that, uh, I couldn't get, you know, they wanted to charge me $200 a visit for an hour, uh, once a month.
And, uh, that's unaffordable. So, uh, when you, when you get told that it's a barrier, and I thank God that I [00:14:00] found Leader Dog when I did. That way I can get the o and m and, and Glacier and, uh, leader Dog's always got my back and they're always there for me. And, and I've seen some of these, uh, uh, when I visited the Leader Dog, uh, somebody's was not getting the o and m and they were going to come back for another week.
And that was amazing. That Leader Dog gives you the time and it, you go at your pace until you feel comfortable. And I was glad to hear Donny saying that, and I'm glad Leader Dog does that. 'cause sometimes it takes a little bit longer for people to. Figure this stuff out. It's not easy. It's not, it's not at all.
Leslie: Yeah. It's, it's really challenging and, and fortunately we hear that from clients time and time again, that that was their experience, reaching out, seeking services, whether they didn't qualify or they couldn't afford those services. Mm-Hmm. Uh, so we are really fortunate and so happy. Be and thankful for our volunteers and donors who really do make this possible to provide all of these services completely free, including that transportation to us in Michigan.
Or again, sometimes we do offer that in-home option as well. Um, and, and part of [00:15:00] this too, right? I know we've talked about it a lot and we're not gonna dive too far into it, is. That unmet needs survey. And so when Denny's talking about removing barriers, you know, these are the ones that we're really focused on right now, but we're hoping to learn a lot.
You know, that survey just kind of wrapped up, so results should be coming out soon of what that says, where people, you know, need services. What are the gaps in the fields? Hopefully we can do more. We, we want to do more. Um, you know, right now we're really focusing on mobility and we know that's one piece of the rehab journey.
Um, so I'm really looking forward to see where we go with that and what happens. But I do wanna go back to dunny. You mentioned that wait list, and can you explain a little bit, uh, exactly what is the wait list and, and why it kind of has happened?
Dani: Sure. So for us, the, the wait list is for those clients that who have applied for our services and been accepted into, uh, either our guide dog or orientation mobility program.
Of course, I'll, I'll focus on Guide Dog because that's where our, we see our wait list expanding, [00:16:00] uh, which currently sits, uh, I'd say generally we say about one year. That looks different from every, for every individual, uh, based on our ability to, to find the right dog and the right match. Um, but what it speaks to is what I had mentioned as sort of my second priority or our second priority as an organization, which is breeding.
So globally, there really is a guide dog shortage. And a part of that is due to the results of the pandemic, of course, as everybody was, uh, sheltering in place or, or at home and we were unable to provide services, we also made the decision at that point to stop our breeding. Uh, we didn't know when we would be getting back to, uh, normalcy and it didn't feel.
Right to continue producing dogs when we weren't exactly sure what the future was going to look like. And so putting that process on hold also meant not only producing puppies, but it meant not adding new breeding stock moms and dads [00:17:00] to sort of our, our program. And what that also meant is we saw a number that needed to be retired all around the same time.
And so our organization, like many Guide dog organizations, have seen a slower rebound on this front as we've come out of the pandemic. And then for, for us, there are always, you know, organizational specific challenges, uh, that we saw in. You know, lower conception rates, uh, smaller litter sizes than we were typically seeing.
And so we've really been focused on our, our breeding program and bringing that back, uh, for, for a long-term sustainable program to get to the numbers that we need, um, but also making sure that we're breeding dogs that, uh, are right for, for this new very challenging environment that we ask our guide dogs to work in.
You, you think about that, it's a. It's an extremely challenging environment that they're navigating and one that only becomes more complicated, uh, with, you know, roundabouts and pet [00:18:00] dogs and fake service dogs and, and all the, the others. So we're, we're really, uh, asking our team to, to train dogs for, for really, really challenging environments.
Christina: Yeah. So what are some of the most important steps to start addressing, you know, that problem, to help the wait list on the line?
Dani: Yeah, so the good news is, is that the, the cha, the. The process has already begun. Uh, we are partner partnering with the International Working Dog Registry, and I'll refer to that as IWDR and our breeding team and vet team.
Everybody's been hard at work at this, and I'll say certainly before I moved into this role. Uh, and so we're, we're uploading all of our data into IWDR so that we can start using, um, estimated breeding values or EBVs in, in making our breeding decisions so that we can make the best decisions. For which dogs to, to match together, which should really start to immediately address some of those, I'll say, biological challenges that we see in the program.
And of course, you know, if we're also making [00:19:00] selections and, and we're talking in these estimated breeding values, it's not only medical, uh, traits of our dogs, but it's also behavioral. So there are some things like, uh, the ability to navigate stairs the way we need our guide dogs to. That is actually a heritable trait.
And so if we can be tracking the behaviors of our dogs, and then also taking their behaviors and their medical background into consideration as we're. Determining who to, uh, match together. We really are looking at producing not only more dogs, but the highest quality dog because the, the, the goal isn't to just produce a higher number of dogs.
It's to produce the right number of dogs that can be successful to, to do the work. And, and the sooner that we can recover, uh, the sooner that we'll be able to. Uh, get back to what, what I think our goal would be is, is more typically, you know, 150 to 175 guide dog teams per year. Uh, versus what we're looking at this next year, which is re really close to around a a hundred.[00:20:00]
Christina: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of. Thought and data and all of that, that goes into producing a puppy. I mean, I, the science there that goes way over my head. Yeah,
Leslie: well, just thinking about, right, like we're trying to produce the perfect guide dog, but we know the perfect Guide dog is different for every individual.
Yeah. So that challenge in itself is crazy, but it's exciting to have all these new kind of supports, if you will, or different metrics to follow to be able to successfully do that. And one of the things that also. Part of the wait list is the, the matching process. So that is a huge problem or not a huge problem, it's just a huge piece of it is finding that perfect guide dog for each person.
So do you mind explaining a little bit about what goes into the matching process and how that works for clients? I.
Dani: Sure. And, and of course, right, this is just as, every dog is unique, so is every individual unique? And, and so finding the right dog for the right person, taking into consideration what is their lifestyle?
Where are they traveling? Are they in a [00:21:00] busy environment? Are they in a more rural environment? What are the paths that they're taking each day? And what does the environment look like? And. Again, I'll speak to the, the change in environment. You know, I, I was speaking with a client recently who told me that in previous years she would pass on her commute, her 30 minute walk to work.
She'd pass somewhere around five dogs along the way. Now she can fully expect to pass anywhere 20 to. 30 dogs That's crazy. On her commute to work. Wow. And, and we saw that right? That proliferation during the pandemic, many people, not only did they adopt dogs or bring uh dogs into their household, but they really got used to taking their dogs with them everywhere that they went.
Mm-Hmm. And, and that, that provides just a, another, um, more complicated challenge. And so. As we're looking at, uh, matching dogs and, and individuals, it really is looking not only at that individual and their gait and how quickly they walk, but also that environment that they'll be navigating. And that's what it looked, why it may [00:22:00] be a, a, a, a shorter wait for one individual and a longer wait for another.
And then of course. Clients have preferences. Mm-Hmm. Uh, Timothy, I don't know if, if you were adamant about, you know, a, a black Labrador retriever, uh,
but
Dani: you know, some people are, if it's, if they're waiting for, let's say a female golden, that is gonna be a longer wait and. We do talk to our clients too. And, and there are people who are willing that, that we say, you, you may have this preference, but we've actually found the right dog for you.
Uh, what do you think? And many times we see individuals are, are willing to, to consider that, knowing that our team, uh, really has a, a very unique skill in being able to find that right match. But it's, it's complicated. And of course, if you have fewer dogs to choose from, right then you have fewer matches that you can make.
Timothy: So what advice would you give a client that's facing maybe a year without a dog? I mean, wouldn't it be a perfect time to come back for a refresher course for o and m? What advice would you give?
Leslie: Well, Timothy, I know that [00:23:00] wasn't directed to me, but you know, I love every opportunity I can to hop in and talk about it.
But obviously, yes, if o and m is appropriate, if they feel like they could benefit from additional orientation, mobility, building those cane skills, perfecting routes even, and being confident in those things. Those are great goals to have and that we can certainly work on in the o and m program. But other things just like building stamina, right?
Like making sure that people are getting out there and being physical and walking, um, and in all different types of days and weather and all of that to make sure they're feeling good. Balance concerns. If anybody's having, I. An issue with a balance or gait. Go see a physical therapist, maybe check in with your doctor to work on any strategies or exercises that you can be doing.
Um, we always talk about audiology hearing, if you're noticing that maybe things are sounding a little different in one side or, um, traffic that, um, the way it used to checking in with that professional and audiologist. So kind of doing that legwork ahead of time. But of course, establishing those routes, making sure that you're really comfortable and confident.
With [00:24:00] the areas and environments in which you're gonna be traveling with a guide dog, so that when you do hopefully get that match, get that exciting call, come to class, get your guide dog, when you go back home, you're ready and confident to work in those areas because Right. We've talked about the myths out there.
I wish it was great that you just got a dog, you got Glacier, and you're like, all right, glacier, take me home. And then that was it. But we, we know it doesn't work that way, and you have to support. The dog and the dog supports you. It's such a team effort. So that's my little I'll, I'll get off my high horse now and talk about it.
I could go all day, obviously. But Timothy, I am curious too, you know, you have a lot of relationships with clients, both new and who, who are graduates. What are the conversations out there do you think people are understanding, you know, this kind of breeding challenge that we are having along with other organizations?
Timothy: Yeah, I think everybody realizes Covid just did a lot of damage. Yeah. And, uh, so I mean, it is a shock when you're hearing a year, we gotta wade through this until we get to the other side. We're not [00:25:00] through it yet, but we're getting closer every day and we, we should all realize that. So we're just gonna go through this little struggle.
But yeah, it's impacted people out there. I know a couple of people right now has been waiting for almost nine, 10 months now. Yeah, but you know what, it's worth it if you get. The dog that's right for you. So be patient. We don't wanna give you a dog that's not gonna work out. It may work out for somebody else, but it may not work out for you.
So just be patient till we find that Right. Perfect dog.
Leslie: Absolutely. And, and, and talk to your peers. I think that's always important to have that kind of support system and network. You know, we do have the Facebook alumni page that's really great about. Tips and tricks or things to do, um, in that downtime or how to prep your home or things like that.
So there's always something. Um, and of course we're always happy to help. So if you can call us for anything or we can do anything to help support, we're available. Um, but Denny, I wanna thank you for finally joining us. I know actually, uh, she has been ready and willing to be on the podcast and it's been on Christina.
I've been asking, I know. I've been [00:26:00]
Christina: begging. You know, the one day we were supposed to have her on, I got Sick. Yes.
Dani: So, and it didn't feel right. Joining the show without, without the entire cast here. Right. 'cause like I said, as your very first fan, I needed to be here with all of you. Yes.
Timothy: We've been doing this for three years.
Thank you, dunny.
Leslie: I know. And we should thank Dunny because Dunny really was helping and you really helped start this and make it Yeah. A realistic podcast. I remember touring the studio here that first time. It was very exciting. Yes. Dunny was with us. And then, uh, we talked about it a couple different times, but when Christina, Timothy and I, I recorded just a random episode on Zoom.
Oh yeah. Uh, dunny was our first listener. Yes. And so we sent that to her and she gave us great feedback, which has helped us form really what we have now is. Podcast and the take these leads. So thank you to you and also our other, we have a board member who has been very supportive of this and behind the scenes and just very encouraging and so optimistic and really helped us get the ball running there too.
So yes, we are so thankful. Yes, and thank you for being here today and taking time outta [00:27:00] this. Crazy list of challenges you have coming.
Dani: Well, thank you. Like I said, we've got all the right people. We'll, we will get through all of it, but we appreciate everybody working together, uh, as, as we're trying to Right.
To make more people unstoppable.
Leslie: Absolutely. And thank you so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm, Leslie has. With host Timothy Kyo and Christina Hebner. We hope you enjoyed learning about our new Chief Impact Officer Dunny Landalt. Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at [phone]. And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the [e-mail] with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Stream.