Episode 121: Meet Leah of Seedling Vintage

Show Notes

Leah's journey to selling vintage is a long one that starts at a big fast fashion retailer, moves into experiential design, and ultimately finds meaning and comfort via vintage.  We’re going to talk about so much, from "what the heck is experiential design" to debunking the myth that we are running out of secondhand clothing.

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Clotheshorse is brought to you with support from the following sustainable brands:

Thumbprint is Detroit's only fair trade marketplace, located in the historic Eastern Market.  Our small business specializes in products handmade by empowered women in South Africa making a living wage creating things they love like hand painted candles and ceramics! We also carry a curated assortment of  sustainable/natural locally made goods. Thumbprint is a great gift destination for both the special people in your life and for yourself! Browse our online store at thumbprintdetroit.com and find us on instagram @thumbprintdetroit.

Country Feedback is a mom & pop record shop in Tarboro, North Carolina. They specialize in used rock, country, and soul and offer affordable vintage clothing and housewares. Do you have used records you want to sell? Country Feedback wants to buy them! Find us on Instagram @countryfeedbackvintageandvinyl or head downeast and visit our brick and mortar. All are welcome at this inclusive and family-friendly record shop in the country!

Selina Sanders, a social impact brand that specializes in up-cycled clothing, using only reclaimed, vintage or thrifted materials: from tea towels, linens, blankets and quilts.  Sustainably crafted in Los Angeles, each piece is designed to last in one's closet for generations to come.  Maximum Style; Minimal Carbon Footprint

Salt Hats:  purveyors of truly sustainable hats. Hand blocked, sewn and embellished in Detroit, Michigan.

Republica Unicornia Yarns: Hand-Dyed Yarn and notions for the color-obsessed. Made with love and some swearing in fabulous Atlanta, Georgia by Head Yarn Wench Kathleen. Get ready for rainbows with a side of Giving A Damn! Republica Unicornia is all about making your own magic using small-batch, responsibly sourced, hand-dyed yarns and thoughtfully made notions. Slow fashion all the way down and discover the joy of creating your very own beautiful hand knit, crocheted, or woven pieces. Find us on Instagram @republica_unicornia_yarns and at www.republicaunicornia.com.

Gentle Vibes:  We are purveyors of polyester and psychedelic relics! We encourage experimentation and play not only in your wardrobe, but in your home, too. We have thousands of killer vintage pieces ready for their next adventure! 

Picnicwear:  a slow fashion brand, ethically made by hand from vintage and deadstock materials - most notably, vintage towels! Founder, Dani, has worked in the industry as a fashion designer for over 10 years, but started Picnicwear in response to her dissatisfaction with the industry's shortcomings. Picnicwear recently moved to rural North Carolina where all their clothing and accessories are now designed and cut, but the majority of their sewing is done by skilled garment workers in NYC. Their customers take comfort in knowing that all their sewists are paid well above NYC minimum wage. Picnicwear offers minimal waste and maximum authenticity: Future Vintage over future garbage.

Shift Clothing, out of beautiful Astoria, Oregon, with a focus on natural fibers, simple hardworking designs, and putting fat people first.  Discover more at shiftwheeler.com

No Flight Back Vintage:  bringing fun, new life to old things.  Always using recycled and secondhand materials to make dope ass shit for dope ass people.  See more on instagram @noflightbackvintage

The Pewter Thimble is a curated second hand shop, based out of Rome, Italy. Owner Desiree Marie Townley has a background in costuming and makeup for Dance and Opera, and focuses on dressing for the character you want to be in the world. Curated collections are dropped in a story sale and always have a specialized theme, like the color palette of Starry Night, the film classic Casablanca, and the children's novel The Secret Garden.  Desiree works with local artisans and pieces are rescued from markets and rehabilitated and resold with worldwide shipping. The Pewter Thimble is a collection of pieces that will have Eternal Style, from the Eternal City. Discover more on instagram @thepewterthimble.

Late to the Party, creating one of a kind statement clothing from vintage, salvaged and thrifted textiles. They hope to tap into the dreamy memories we all hold: floral curtains, a childhood dress, the wallpaper in your best friend’s rec room, all while creating modern sustainable garments that you'll love wearing and have for years to come. Late to the Party is passionate about celebrating and preserving textiles, the memories they hold, and the stories they have yet to tell. Check them out on Instagram!

Vino Vintage, based just outside of LA.  We love the hunt of shopping secondhand because you never know what you might find! And catch us at flea markets around Southern California by following us on instagram @vino.vintage so you don’t miss our next event! 

Gabriela Antonas is a visual Artist, an ethical trade fashion designer, but Gabriela Antonas is also a radical feminist micro-business.  She’s the one woman band, trying to help you understand, why slow fashion is what the earth needs.  The one woman band, to help you build your brand ! She can take your fashion line from just a concept, and do your sketches, pattern making, grading, sourcing, cutting and sewing for you. Or the second option is  for those who aren’t trying to start a business, and who just want ethical garments! Gabriela will create custom garments for you. Her goal is to help one person, of any size, at a time, including beyond size 40.   For inquiries about this serendipitous intersectional offering of either concept DM her on Instagram to book a consultation. Please follow her on Instagram, Twitter, and Clubhouse at @gabrielaantonas

Dylan Paige is an online clothing and lifestyle brand based out of St. Louis, MO. Our products are chosen with intention for the conscious community. Everything we carry is animal friendly, ethically made, sustainably sourced, and cruelty free. Dylan Paige is for those who never stop questioning where something comes from. We know that personal experience dictates what's sustainable for you, and we are here to help guide and support you to make choices that fit your needs.  Check us out at dylanpaige.com and find us on instagram @dylanpaigelifeandstyle

Located in Whistler, Canada, Velvet Underground is a "velvet jungle" full of vintage and second-hand clothes, plants, a vegan cafe and lots of rad products from other small sustainable businesses. Our mission is to create a brand and community dedicated to promoting self-expression, as well as educating and inspiring a more sustainable and conscious lifestyle both for the people and the planet.

Find us on Instagram @shop_velvetunderground or online at www.shopvelvetunderground.com

Cute Little Ruin is an online shop dedicated to providing quality vintage and secondhand clothing, vinyl, and home items in a wide range of styles and price points.  If it’s ethical and legal, we try to find a new home for it!  Vintage style with progressive values.  Find us on Instagram at @CuteLittleRuin.

Blank Cass, or Blanket Coats by Cass, is focused on restoring, renewing, and reviving the history held within vintage and heirloom textiles. By embodying and transferring the love, craft, and energy that is original to each vintage textile into a new garment, I hope we can reteach ourselves to care for and mend what we have and make it last. Blank Cass lives on Instagram @blank_cass and a website will be launched soon at blankcass.com.

Caren Kinne Studio:  Located in Western Massachusetts, Caren specializes in handcrafted earrings from found, upcycled, and repurposed fabrics as well as other eco-friendly curios,  all with  a hint of nostalgia, a dollop of whimsy, a dash of color and 100% fun.  Caren is an artist/designer who believes the materials we use matter. See more on Instagram @carenkinnestudio

St. Evens is an NYC-based vintage shop that is dedicated to bringing you those special pieces you’ll reach for again and again. More than just a store, St. Evens is dedicated to sharing the stories and history behind the garments. 10% of all sales are donated to a different charitable organization each month. For the month of March, St. Evens is supporting Heart of Dinner, a volunteer-powered organization on a mission to combat food insecurity and isolation within NYC’s elderly Asian American community.  New vintage is released every Thursday at wearStEvens.com, with previews of new pieces and more brought to you on Instagram at @wear_st.evens.

Creators & Guests

Host

Amanda Lee McCarty

What is Clotheshorse with Amanda Lee McCarty?

Host Amanda Lee McCarty (she/they) decodes and demystifies the fashion and retail industries, and takes on topics like consumerism, workers rights, personal style, and why fashion is a case study in capitalism gone awry.
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"If you wear clothes, you need to listen to Clotheshorse." --Elise
"If you are human and live in the world, you need to listen to Clotheshorse." --Individually Wrapped

AMANDA
Welcome to Clotheshorse, the podcast that has coughed a lot in the past few weeks.
I’m your host, Amanda

And this is episode 121! Today’s special guest is Leah, the owner of Seedling Vintage. Leah is a vintage seller (in addition to being a mom and working another full time job) and I am excited for you to meet her. Her journey to selling vintage is a long one, that starts at a big fast fashion retailer, moves into the experiential design, and ultimately finds meaning, comfort, and her place in the world via vintage. We’re going to talk about so much from what the heck is experiential design to debunking the myth that we are running out of secondhand clothing.

I was originally going to split this conversation into two parts, like I usually do, but I realized that I just do not have the voice or time between coughing spells to do a long monologue for you this week. I’m getting over my first cold in years—now dustin has it–and I have to say, I had forgotten just how miserable a cold can be. Years ago when Dustin and I took our first trip to Japan, for our honeymoon, well, I was beyond excited. This was a trip I had been dreaming of making since I was a teenager. And naturally, I had I had to read everything I could about Japan, Japanese culture, and the day-to-day social mores of life in Japan. I am a firm believer that as travelers we must be polite and respectful when traveling, which includes adopting social norms like removing shoes indoors, wearing a mask when sick, etc. And one thing that I read talked about how in Japan, if you have the flu you are encouraged to stay home, because it is so contagious and can be so debilitating and deadly for others. But if you have a cold, you’re encouraged to just take some medicine–and trust me Japan has some intense cold medicine offerings including one called Bron, which I have totally taken that includes codeine over the counter. TBH I have wished I have had some Bron in the last week. Anyway, so you’re encouraged to just take some medicine, wear a mask, and keep on working because a cold isn’t serious. And I have to say, reading that sort of planted that idea in my head, that we should never take a day off for a mere cold. Which is some horrible hustle culture capitalist bullshit? But I definitely gaslit myself into believing that for years. And I’m here to tell you that a cold is miserable and you should 100% rest if you have the ability to do so.

Okay, before we jump into my conversation with Leah, I want to remind you of the upcoming audio essay series: From “no mini skirts after 30 “ to “cut your hair short at some mysterious age,” we are swimming in a sea of style rules around age, gender, size, and lifestyle that are frankly, bullshit. Yet we’ve been exposed to them for so long that we don’t know that they are bullshit? I posted about this on instagram last week and I was so excited to see so many strong feelings that aligned with mine, because I had just seen a bunch of women complaining on reddit about women “not dressing their age.” Which for me is like nails on a chalkboard! Instant cringey rage. I had an assistant at my previous job that was just a complete nightmare and she loved to insult me? And one thing she liked to criticize me about what "dressing my age." Which is just such a gross antiquated idea. And yes, it's all wrapped up in ageism, the male gaze, and policing women's bodies. Some of us have been dressing like meemaws since we were teenagers, others are having the audacity to wear a miniskirt at fifty. And who cares? We should wear what we like, what makes us feel the most comfortable and confident. The same goes for this idea that only people of a certain size can wear certain things. I’ve told you about the stylist at my last job who said it was hard to make things look good on a size 8 or 10 model.

The thing is…people will keep saying really offensive, antiquated, frankly misogynist stuff like this if we don’t counteract the narrative by being loud about how we feel. Unfortunately our silence or lack of pushback on comments and thinking like that is seen as agreement, even if we don’t agree. See also: any other fucked up, racist, classist, ageist, homophobic, transphobic, fatphobic comment that comes out of someone else’s mouth. If we stay silent, that person saying it assumes that we agree.

So yeah, it’s time to get loud about how we feel!

I want to hear from you: What is a style “rule” that you’re glad to break? What was your journey to realizing that your style was personal and nothing to do with anyone else’s rules and opinions? Or conversely, are you fearful of breaking the rules and why? Tell us about your relationship with how you dress!

Okay, but what is an audio essay?
It’s a recording you make--using either your phone or your computer.

You email it to me at [e-mail], and I edit and mix it, and add it to an episode. I will not accept written essays for this.

I recommend that you write it all out, then record it. It’s okay if you make a mistake while recording, just say that part again and keep talking. I’ll edit it when I put it in the episode!

Record in a quiet room, away from fans/air conditioners.

The deadline for this project is April 15 (I gave you all an extension), so you have a few more weeks to get this done. Your recording should be anywhere from 3 minutes to 10 minutes long.

Let’s get louder than the bad players out there. I think you will be surprised when you speak up by how many other people were feeling the same way, they were just staying quiet because they didn’t know that silence just perpetuates bad ideas and situations.

Amanda
Leah, why don't you introduce yourself to everyone?

Leah
Hi, everyone. I'm Leah Levitt. I run Seedling Vintage LLC, it is currently an online retail vintage shop. I was born in the 80s and grew up in the 90s, where consumerism seemed to be at its highest.

Amanda
Oh, yeah,for sure. I mean, like, I've done so much reading about where consumerism picked up. And it, you know, really started in the middle of the last century, but I feel like people are like, oh, like, we can, we're so consumed every now and like, we were in the 90s, too. We just didn't have like smartphones and gadgets, you know?

Leah
Yeah, I think I was actually reading something about when consumerism started and after World War Two was basically when everyone was like, okay, here, we're selling this type of life to you, in the mid century. And this is what you need. And you have to have all these gadgets and do all these different things and have this car. And you know, from there, it just ballooned, and like, it was okay to have more than you actually needed. And, I mean, I just remember growing up in that way, where my parents were using paper plates and throwing them out, instead of, you know, just washing a dish, which is so easy. And it was just about this convenience thing, instead of just realizing that it's not a good thing. I mean, we're just contributing to more and more garbage.

Amanda
The mention of paper plates just like, unlocked all these memories of me of my mom being like, well, I don't think washing dishes, exactly. Paper plates, plastic utensils. Oh, I think about the amount of trash we would put out. I'm horrified.. And we've all we were all part of it, right? Like everything was disposable.

Leah
It's so crazy. Because like, when you when I think of it now, like I've always had this anxiety about it. Like I remember at one point in my life, maybe being like seven or eight years old, me and my sister decided to start this like club that was called the save the world club. And it was all about, like what we could do in the house. We used to have little meetings in a room underneath our staircase. And we had our parents adopt humanities for us. And we would try our best to basically just remind our parents what we can do to, you know, make it better and not have as much waste. But, you know, I grew up in that same, that mentality where, you know, both my parents were working at night, they worked in a restaurant industry, and it was really hard for them to keep up with everything. So for them, it was just a very easy way of making sure we are taking care of but not having all the responsibilities of cleaning. So, you know, that happens.

Amanda
You know, when I think about disposable items that have like really upset me. It's less the paper plates. Still not happy about it. Yeah, definitely. And this is like a 21st century disposable item: those face wipes.

Leah
Oh my god, I totally get you.

Amanda
So we have a Costco membership and we don't buy a lot there because yeah, everything is like plastic wrapped in plastic wrap. I know but there are a few good things that are like good to get there aren't over package like they have these amazing gluten free ramen noodles can't recommend them enough. Anyway, one of the things that I always see there are like massive packages of like Neutrogena face wipes. And I just like for some reason that one is like triggering to me where I'm like, Oh, my God, like all you need to do is just use a washcloth like water. These are wrapped in plastic wrapped in plastic and then trash like it's just, I we've been sold them as like a great idea. And I know people are using them and clogging up toilets and all kinds of other things. I just like I I would like us to all go protest outside of the Neutrogena corporate because I can't take it anymore. They need to go away.

Leah
And not only that, but I feel like the chemicals that are in them are probably terrible for your skin on top of it.
It's not good for you. So it's so funny because I think like 27 years old is when I started just not using a lot of makeup only using natural things to put on my face. And just realizing that like what I'm doing is like affecting how I'm aging. You know, there's always a little bit inside of me that goes okay, I want to age gracefully, right? But I obviously don't want to have like crazy wrinkles. So I just started oiling up my face with some natural oil and I was like okay, I'm going to start going this route with no makeup and this and feel comfortable. But it actually took until gosh, I think the pandemic to fully be comfortable and be like, I'm not gonna wear makeup and I'm cool.. But uh I, you know, I've really minimized like, all those things like, I don't need those things anymore I write, I have a little bit of makeup when I really feel as if I need it. But it's just, it's not part of my life anymore. And also, after becoming a mother, I kind of realized, like, it just, it doesn't, I don't need it, you know, it's, it's not necessary. And I also want to teach my son, you know, like, what we need and what we don't, and how to like, kind of gauge that. And I don't want him to become this little consumer because it's really easy for him to become like that in a city like any work, because it's thrown at you at every corner everywhere. You know, like we I take him to school, we walk home from school, and there's a toy store on the way and it's like, every day. Oh my God, I want this. I want this. I'm like, Okay, we don't need another fire truck. Like, are you kidding me? Stop, like, stop selling this. We don't need it. And people give us stuff and it makes me crazy. But um, you know, with him, we actually have never really taken him to go shopping. I've only done thrift store shopping. And then I just give it to him and he wears it. So great. He's been really good about it, luckily, but I mean, he's getting a little bit more of an attitude. So we'll see what happens with the future.

Amanda
Yeah, I mean, I remember my daughter starting second grade and being like, Hey, can I get highlights? And I was like, wait, what? And everyone at school has highlights? Oh, it was like a second grade anyway. It's really really hard. I know. I know. I think to like, I mean, toys kids toys stuff where I was so gross and plastic. They're like instant garbage sometimes. They've been especially bad the past few years because there's been all that like blind box for children like LOL Surprise stuff.
It's like a plastic ball with more plastic inside. And another plastic basically just trash on trash. Yeah, it's really, really disturbing. Anyway, now that we've broken down why we hate Neutrogena wipes and all this.

Leah
Exactly. Very important stuff.

Amanda
Let's talk about So okay, so you know you are a vintage seller now? Yes, you sell secondhand. I mean, yes. Something that I have discovered. I mean, I guess I already knew it. Because it's a way of life for my husband and me. But I found that for so many of us. It really is. It's a passion. It's a way of life. How did it start for you?

Leah
Oh, it's kind of interesting. Like, I remember being a young child, and always telling my parents, I'm going to eventually own an antique shop like that. Wow, that was like the one thing that I always wanted to do, because I always had a fascination with everything that was of historical value in my family, and where it came from. And I want to know all the stories, and I didn't have like a lot of grandparents, like I basically had my mom's father and my dad's mom. And those were like my two, like, older generation family. So you know, I want to know as much about their things as possible. So because of all of my interest, I would get all of the items from them. Because I was like the only child or the only cousin or the only grandchild, I mean, that was actually interested in those things. So I have like, all my grandma's old stuff. And she's told me where it's came from. She's given me all these amazing stories about the life they have lived. So I think for me, it was always about the life that it had before and how interesting it is to actually think about these items, you know, being 70 years old. And then like, what it's what it's been through. It's like a person almost, it's like this entity that has like its own life. Yeah, so that was kind of like my first thought. And then my sister was a big old skater in the 90s, big skater in the 90s and hung out with the skate crew. And in the 90s, it was very cool to just do thrift store shopping, you know, like, that's all I did. So my parents were super excited for that point of her life, because it was so easy. And she would wear whatever, whatever size and then she would try and dress me up. So she would just like be like, come with me and I'll give you like, all my hand me downs of clothes are like, I want you to look cool, like a skater too. So I'm going to give you this in this. So it kind of started with that. And she got me, you know going with the thrift store like 12 and then we just went with it and my mom was like, Heck yes. Like everything's working out for us financially. This is great. Like, a lot better than when you guys went to Contempo casuals and have we had to pay like 200 bucks or whatever. And it was shitty clothes.

Amanda
We’ve talked about how cheap fast fashion has gotten. Y'all don't even understand. Contempo Casual was like, so expensive. I remember, I made like, $5 an hour, not even minimum wage. And like you'd go into Contempo casual and like a shirt would be like $40 like, a whole day of work to buy. Yes. Mo casual shirt. Not those prices were fair for what they were right. Yeah, it's not like now where it's like, oh, that shirts. I don't know. $15 It's just so unethical and brah I don't think this shirt should have been $15 but it's just like, you don't understand how expensive Contempo casual was when you were a teenager.

Leah
it was like the coolest and then like Wild Pair for shoes. You know, there's like there's like certain places.

Amanda
Wild Pair! I'm glad that you brought that up because we had one at our mall. And it was the best shoe store ever. I still stand by that. It was cool. It was a wild hair. It was wild. And they were really cool. They were basically like knockoffs of like cool shoes. Yeah. Like runway shoes, or sexy shoes. Like there were lots of Doc Marten knockoffs. And like, they were always having crazy sales, I swear.

Leah
Yes, they were, they were always like to for whatever amount. It was, it was just like buy one Wild Pair, get another one half off, I have no idea like a BOGO type of situation,

Amanda
The thing about those shoes, that they would last a million years.

Leah
True. It's so funny when you think about that. And I always I always reference that also, it's like, the things that I've had, like I've had a pair of Converse for like, literally before I moved to New York, and I've moved I've lived in New York for 16 years. On and off. I moved a little bit for a while. But it's like I've had these shoes for 20 years, and they're just breaking down now where I'm like, Okay, I gotta like retire this pair shoes. I mean, they have been through everything. But now it's like I buy a pair of I bought a pair Converse, which kind of pissed me off because I try not to do that. And immediately, like the rivet fell off, like the day I freakin worn it like the first day.

Amanda
The rivets are the first to go. I agree, I feel it, I have the same pair of sneakers for like all of high school. And now if I bought in the rare occasion that I buy, like Converse or Vans or something, they don't even make it a year.

Leah
It's terrible. It's terrible.

Amanda
I mean, it’s the fast fashion-ification of everything. I you know,

Leah
iIt's almost like there is a marketing strategy to make things. While I think it's also it's fast fashion, because it's going to be cheaper to make, right. But there's also probably a marketing strategy behind that, that makes it like okay, well, it's gonna break down anyway, and then also buy another one. So there you go. It's just the way it is, it's getting worse and worse

Amanda
That's planned obsolescence. If it's like, if we can't make that product fall apart soon, and you need to buy a new one, then we'll just like make it seem out of date and useless. Like for example, iPhones, you know, like, that's a big, Planned Obsolescence where, like, I'm one of those people who tries to hold on to my phone for as long as possible. And the last year or two that I own, it is like arduous and stressful. Sorry, I can only use one app at a time, or I have to keep it constantly plugged in.

Leah
I had that for like a really long time. So I'm gonna go on another small journey into a moment where I actually moved away from New York with my husband to South America. And that also was a great learning experience. But on the phone situation down there, it was like you're still using flip phones. You were like, still in the 70s and 80s. There, you're repairing stuff, you are buying secondhand, like, there are cobblers, there are people, you know, repairing televisions and radios and phones and everything. And it's not about like the biggest investors and everything. It's just about like having what you need. So that was definitely a learning experience when it came to like coming back to the States because I came back when it was like getting crazier with the iPhones and I didn't have one yet. And I was like, Holy crap. Like, it's almost impossible to have a job here. Unless I have one. It was like I kind of had to be plugged in in that way. And it actually fucking sucked. Because I was really trying to put off getting those types of things. But yeah, I feel you I've always been trying to keep keep low profile with those, but it's just it's like they force you because they keep you upping how much memory you need on them. I think it's what the deal is.

Amanda
You Yeah, it's really really frustrating. I mean, the other thing, you know, with fast fashion is like, the clothes are gonna fall apart anyway, I need to get some new ones, but they might not. But that's okay. It will be a new trend that you feel like you have that will go out of style like a month later, and then you'll feel embarrassed wearing it. So that's another. That's another example of planned obsolescence anyway. Okay, so, so you have fast fashion and planned obsolescence and all kinds of evil stuff. You and I both worked for the same fast fashion company.

Leah
Yes, we did.

Amanda
You weren't different. How long? Did you work for them?

Leah
Almost five years, I believe I was pretty young. When I started. I feel like I might have been seven. No, like, 18? No. 20 I think I was 20 when I started there. Yeah. So early 2000s.

Amanda
So how did that shape your feelings about fashion, style, fast fashion?

Leah
What is so interesting about that company that we both know, is that there was a lot of appeal to working there. Because there was very interesting people that work there. There was very educated, artistic, cool people that worked in that environment. And the funniest part to me about working there was no one usually wore the clothes that much, most of each row actually would wear more of it. Well, at least in New York, for me when I started in Seattle, and then I moved to New York with the company. And I noticed in New York and Seattle, actually, that most people actually wear vintage, like we'd have like vintage come into the store sometimes and most people would be like, going for that, you know, trying to get that because as much as you know this, the clothing tried to be individualistic and kind of mimic vintage or try and be a little bit cooler than these other brands. It still was fast fashion. So we were all trying to still have like our artsy individualistic, like, personalities there. As far as how it shaped my view of fast fashion, I started as an associate for that company in Seattle, worked at the downtown store there met a lot of really cool people met a boyfriend's. We ended up moving to New York together, I was just turning 21. And then I slowly moved up the manager ladder. And that's when you kind of get more of the inside of the back end of things. And you're using the systems and kind of seeing, I mean, how much quantity you're seeing of all these items coming into different stores, and also the markup and how much they're getting them for. And it was just like, kind of crazy to see all these numbers, you know, and to, to realize, like, what was happening, and it just felt like a machine. And I started to get pretty depressed after a certain period of time. Because of it. Yeah,

Amanda
I hear you. I hear you on that. It's really hard. Like, you know, you and I, when we were preparing for this conversation, we talked about how you like yeah, you could go back you can get on the green screen.

Leah
Yeah. The green screen from like, the 80s Oh, 100%

Amanda
Yeah. And like, you could look up for stuff like, oh my god, we ordered 10,000 units thing or that it costs $4. We were selling it for $40. I mean, it was really, really crazy. When I moved from the retail side of that to the home office side to work as a buyer. I couldn't believe how cheap some of the stuff was. Like, for example, we talked, we talked in a previous episode about this scarf that you're gonna be totally familiar with. It's called the stripe nubby with lurex. That was the categories I bought. That scarf was like I want to say $2 and we charged $20-24.

Leah
I remember it was like 24 I think it was like 24, it snagged on everything was oh my god, it was terrible. Terrible. We would always have to what did we have to do when things got broke? We had to like zero them out or something? I can't do it. We did damage them out. Yeah, I damage so many of those suckers out. And I have to say sorry, I'm swearing now. Okay, as far as like, okay, so I was never a manager of accessories at the point and when I was working there, we had managers for every different department. I don't know how it works. Now. I didn't do accessories management. I was like women's operations, different things like that. But I remember just always the most waste within accessories. They would just break like no one's business. Totally. It was insane.

Amanda
So I have I've been for that company, a manager of all the departments except for men's and When I moved to to the home office, and the the categories I was buying initially were women's accessories. And I couldn't believe, like, a lot of the jewelry and hair clips and things like that were like $1 Yeah, you know, the sunglasses had the highest markup of any category. I want to Oh, I remember seeing that. Yeah, yeah. And once again, those were like one to $2. And we were selling them for like, 20. And they were, they were crap. Oh, they were shit. They were total shit I would go to I mean, like real talk. And this is the way it is for the entire industry. You know, you think of supplies, like forever. 21 is like selling you like the lowest of the low when it comes to like accessories and stuff. We were buying our stuff from the same vendors. Yeah.

Leah
And that's like, sorry to interrupt. But that's like, the funny part about it is that people don't realize that what, forever 21 And the company were talking about, the only difference is that we dressed it up, we made it look ugly. Oh my god, that fucking cooler. You know, we made it look really fucking cool. We had cool people working there. And that was the only difference. You know, it's like, that was what it was. And it's kind of insane. Because before when I was working there, I didn't really grasp it as much because I was so young. But then when I finally quit, and went to school, it was it just kind of it started to come to me, you know, I started to understand it.

Amanda
yeah, it definitely. It's, I mean, this is what the entire industry is, you know, and I started closers, because a lot of people don't know that. It's all the same. It's just better marketing.

Leah
Exactly. Cool. Marketing, whatever.

Amanda
Yeah. So you decided to go to school for interior design and architecture?

Leah
Yes. So I left the store we're talking about because I was getting up there in status, or like, you know, in management, and I really didn't want to get stuck. I knew if I got to a certain point, which I was at that point, I was at the $10 million store, the biggest store of the whole company at that point. And I was the women’s manager, managing 25 people, it was crazy. I mean, our sell through was like, unbelievable. Our backstock was a fucking football field, we had one person dedicated every day to just freakin organizing it. Because our poll in the morning to like, replenish was just in credible, because we used to print out these whole like, you know, lists of what we sold through, right? And then you try and pull what you can from what art we have. And it was just insane. I would just be throwing things like on piles. Like, let's get this out, you know, like, come on. Like we had, like, I mean, literally, we'd stack shirts like 40 high like this, like, we got to do this. It's gonna go crazy when we open the doors. You know, like freaking out about it. But I'm sorry, I went off a tangent there. But yeah, like, I just kind of got to a point where I was like, This is crazy. And the raises I was giving to people, I just felt really, like mad about it. You know, I just felt shitty because it's, you know, I was the messenger for so many people to give them their their raises. And I didn't think it was enough. And I didn't think it was livable for New York. Number one. I wasn't I was, you know, just making it in New York as a manager of like, a high paying high status store. So if I wasn't making it, like, I mean, how are they is so it was just so crazy to me to be that messenger. And I just got to the point where I was just fed up I was like, I can't go any further because I know they're gonna end up promoting me. And because I was doing a good job and I didn't want to get promoted and get stuck so that was when I was like, Okay, we got a really good bonus. We made stretch bonus that year, we have three bonus category that's like a major bonus. It was freaking crazy. Because it's rare that it happens. So I told myself if it happens, I'm taking the money. I'm going to live and I'm going to go to school. So I did that and applied to school. And then you know, and I got out. But yeah, I went to school for architecture and interior design in New York City in Chelsea at a really good accredited school, paid for it myself, worked full time at a restaurant went to school full time and full time at that school because it was actually a state run school meant that you weren't just doing art classes. You're also doing core classes. So it was like eight classes a semester. It was crazy. I was insane. But I had the energy. I was like 26 I could handle it. But then as I was going through the program, it was similar to retail on the way that we were getting into samples and it was a lot of waste. And a lot of the materials were really bad for you. And then I think in my third year of college, they actually started sustainable class. And then we were learning about all the off gassing of a lot of these products that we were initially using. So then it just made me furious, because I loved the idea of what I was doing. But then I was just like, I, I don't know how to fix this, and I need to go away, that makes me feel good about what I'm doing. So at the end of the day, I decided to go and go sustainable route for my thesis that I finished. And that made me feel a lot better about what I was doing.

Amanda
Tell us about your projects.

Leah
Um, so I mean, it took me a really long time. And I have to say, at the time, it was about 1112 years ago, when I did my thesis. And a lot of people really were pushing back on me doing this thesis that was about it was like a community art center that also had an urban farm. Wow. And also how to space for people to sell goods, to sell the farming stuff from the farm that we had inside the building. And on top of the roof. There was also you know, an area that was for gallery for like local artists, it was supposed to be just kind of like a meeting place for people. And not necessarily like a for profit type of thing. So I had a lot of pushback on that from teachers, because they're like, this is like, not what the industry is like looking for, you know, and I was like, Well, I'm not looking for that I'm looking to fulfill something I need to fulfill, not what you think needs to be done. So I wouldn't say that my grade was really amazing when it came to that. I mean, my project was great. I had a lot of information I was really educated on when I wrote my thesis, which was like over 100 pages. It was like a freakin huge book manual. I mean, I really took it seriously all the information, and I really loved it. And I think that's what eventually parlayed me into vintage. But I did have a little break between my thesis in going into vintage now you

Amanda
sell vintage. So like, what's the step in between what happened?

Leah
Yeah, so um, you know, I was like, I'm gonna go that like totally normal route, like
the nine to five job, I'm gonna do it. Because I've never really done that I've always worked like multiple jobs. I've always done like a little restaurant work here, or a little retailer, a little this or a little that I've always just, I think I have a bit of add. So I'm always like wanting to do something, and always want to have variety, or I get really bored. So I I was gone for a little bit of time with my husband in South America after I got married. And I came back to New York and said, Hey, I have a son, now I'm gonna get a nine to five job, I'm gonna do it. So I randomly wasn't really even looking. And I feel like that's what always happens in New York. It's like, you know, someone that knows something that just gets you a job. So my husband had a good skate buddy that had just moved back from Miami to New York. And he worked at this experiential design company. And he came over and was talking and he he asked me what I was doing. And I was like, oh, you know, I'm actually looking for something for you know, that's an architecture or maybe technical drawing, or maybe, I don't know, in design or something. He's like, Well, actually, they're looking for a technical drafter at this company I'm working at and I was like, really? Well, I don't know if I want to do it. But I might as well try like, what's why not? Right? Why not just see if it works out. So I emailed the girl, and, you know, she saw my portfolio. And then I had a had a meeting with her. And I actually, it's so funny, I had the meeting with her. I walk in, and this guy that actually worked for corporate, which I think you might know, as well, I'm not gonna say his name was in the meeting as well. And I didn't actually know him personally. But we were discussing like, other jobs, and he's like, Oh, my gosh, I used to work in corporate blah, blah, blah. And it was just really funny. So we all connected really well. And then the girls boyfriend that was actually going to be giving me the job if I was to pass the interview process ended up being an old friend from the retail industry. So he was one of the guys that built out the environments in the spaces for this retail company that we Talking about. So that was really funny because he didn't have social media or anything, I had no idea he worked for the company, it just ended up being like this kind of Kismet thing, that it all kind of went full circle. And this was like 16 years after I'd work with him, you know. And we just gave each other a hug. And I was like, This is crazy. Like, I guess it's meant to be, you know, so it felt really awesome. At first, I felt like, Hey, I belong here. A lot of people from that old job actually work there. In this corporate environment, I go, Well, they're doing and I am sure I can manage this as well. Yeah. So I started and you know, being a technical drafter is different than being a designer, because you're not really on calls with clients, you're not really pitching the ideas, you're actually the person that is receiving after the pitches done. And after they have already signed the contract. So I was the person that was just given the information of, okay, this is what we're doing. And now we have to go measure the space. And now we have to build it. And you have to get all of these technical drawings to the different departments like the lighting department, the carpenters, the metalwork, the paint department. So I would have to do these large drawing sets that were very detailed, have 3d drawings, it exploded versions of these 3d drawings to show how they're put together. And then a lot of details, like very, very, very, very detailed stuff, like eighth of an inch between this and this, you know, like crazy things. So it was very detail oriented, which I loved. But I was also like, on my own island, I was listening to headphones all day long. And it just felt crazy, because I would be working, and then all of a sudden have five minutes of anxiety just thinking about life and what the fuck I'm doing.

Leah
Oh, I know, you know, well, yeah. And like, what the fuck am I doing in front of this computer, my eyes are hurting, my neck is hurting, I'm having a headache. I'm having like a stroke. Like, I don't know what's going on. And then I have to get up and walk around and just think about it. And this kept happening over and over and over again. And I'm just thinking to myself, I'm fighting, fighting this part of me that doesn't want to be there just because I think this is the right thing to do. And, you know, it's funny because I was just gonna stay there and just fight it. And I think it would have broken my soul in my spirit at some point. And what happened was COVID and I don't want to make that a light, but in some way it was because for me, they ended up furloughing me from that job twice. So I was working. I got furloughed at the beginning of COVID Then I worked for them. Then I got I'm sorry. I was working remotely furloughed working remotely furloughed then finally let go it was just like a freaking crazy train. I gotta tell you have emotions. I cried so bad. And like you guys are screwing with me. I have a five year old like, Don't f with my insurance, please you guys. So it was crazy. But then I realized like this is a blessing in disguise. Like this is giving me the opportunity to figure out what's going to make me happy. And a way to kind of be at home more and not be in the office like almost six days a week. So yeah, like that is what definitely was the change that drove me into vintage.

Amanda
as you're talking about, like the furlough thing. I mean, for me, I got furloughed for three months. And then every time it was time for me to go back to work, like my boss would put a last minute meeting on my calendar. That was one hour. And I was like, now I'm going to be laid off today. And it'd be like, No, we're extending your furlough another month. Yes. Oh, my God, this kept happening. And I was like, I'm not going back to this job. Like I know, right. But I know, we couldn't move out of the city or move on with their lives because it was like, well, I might go back to this job. And then, every month that last minute meeting, like Oh, it's 9am we're having a meeting at 10 My heart pounding for an hour. I then I finally got let go. And I was just like, What a fucking relief. Like,

Leah
I know, right?

Amanda
I just don't need it anymore. I need that freedom to move on. I hated that job. I was very unhappy there. But I was so you know how it is. You're like, it's hard to leave. Anyway. Yeah. Is it scary, right? I just need freedom to just go do it. Not that I'm like, Thanks for laying me off and cutting off my insurance and giving me two weeks of severance during

Leah
Oh, that's all I got to I got two weeks of severance. How nice right?

Amanda
Yeah, yeah, I got like they were like, and you get five extra days of health insurance. Wow. Thanks, guys.

Leah
Oh my god. I actually haggled the hell out of them, and really made them feel guilty. Luckily, they were kind of nice people. And I was like, Listen, you need to give me five months of insurance because I have a son, this is a pandemic, and I will not accept anything less. And I will keep bugging you until you do it. So they did, which was awesome. I handled that part. But it was just, you know, that was a good thing. And I felt okay, for a little while. And then it was stressful when I didn't have insurance again. Oh, gosh. And that's another I don't want to get into that subject. But seriously, we're working for insurance. It's just ridiculous. We're working to pay off debt. We're working for insurance. We're working for like the wrong reasons.

Amanda
It's true. It's true. I mean, I am like, can we? I don't so many of us are stuck in bad situations. Because of that, like when I hear boomers on social media, or like the comment section of a New York Times article being like, well, if you're such a special snowflake when she could find another job, I'm like, fuck you.

Leah
It's so different.

Amanda
Like, if I leave this job, I'm not going to have insurance. I worked as director of merchandising, like leadership level for a company in the Pacific Northwest. That didn't even give me health insurance. Like I was working a gazillion hours a week, a very important employee, we did not have insurance. And so that's like crazy. It's crazy. That company is terrible. Anyway, the point is, like we are, you know, like, we work in this time where we're stuck to these jobs.

Leah
Because not because we love them, not because even necessarily, we're in an abusive relationship
with them out of that, it almost feels like it feels like

Amanda
I need health insurance, I need a steady paycheck, I need a place to live to pay off my school debt. Like, it's, it's so frustrating to me, because then we have absolutely no leverage when it comes to negotiation. Because they know at our core, we are desperate to have this job.

Leah
I know. And I think that's what's funny about it is that when I was haggling, I kind of told myself, No, this is going to happen. So like I had this mindset were like, No, I'm gonna make them do like, not make them. But I was like, No, I'm gonna make this as important as possible and make this as human as possible. Because I thought to myself, I go, we're humans, like they need to understand this is a human thing. It's not about them. It's not about like work, it's about the fact that I need to make sure I'm taking care of my family. Because I didn't mention this before, but my husband's a freelance photographers. So like, he's never had insurance. So I was like, the main provider of insurance. So that was like, the main thing that was really difficult is that I was like, that steady person with a steady income. So it made it even harder, you know?

Amanda
Yeah, no, I hear you. It's really, really hard. And so something you told me about what I actually was thinking of you last week, because last week, I went to a trade show in Vegas. Well, thank you, I was, as I was looking at all of the booths, because, you know, you worked in experiential design, which is not something a lot of people know about or would understand. So if you explain a little bit what that is,

Leah
okay, so I found a really simple way of explaining it to friends, or just anyone, I finally was like, I'm gonna break this down. It's basically marketing using architecture. So that's like the best way I can explain it in very simple terms. We were using architecture to market for different companies. But the thing about that it's not like you're building out an apartment, you're building a space for maybe four hours, maybe a day, maybe a week, you know, it's like, that's what was so sucking about it. It's like, yeah, so sad, you know. And what was crazy too, is I had a lot of insight. During that job of like, what materials we use, like, I would specify like three quarter inch MDF, which is so fucking poisonous, or, you know, three quarter inch plywood, which is not super sustainable. And the same with MDF, it was just like so frustrating. And on the sustainable note, we did try to start a sustainable like, group there. And the best they came up with was a sustainable product that was shipped from China on a boat. And I was just like, this isn't cystic, like you're basically canceling it out. Like you're telling me that it's coming from a boat from China. And you're telling me it's sustainable like that says that doesn't work out. You know, it's not the same thing and like they were so push back on it because it was just so hard for them to get away from the way they've John things, you know what I mean? Yeah, they didn't want to change it the process, it was just very frustrating. And I was like, You know what, I can't be involved in this anymore. Like, I can't be involved in your meetings anymore about sustainability. Because you're not even listening to anything I'm saying, you know, at all.

Amanda
Yeah. And so I was like, you know, thinking about you last week when I was at magic, because there, there are some really elaborate booths there. That people came in and worked really hard to build, they use a ton of materials. Yeah. And these are going to be up for three days and then torn down. And yeah, I can't even imagine what the dumpster behind Convention Center is, like, at the end, it was

Leah
so depressing. I did this one standard. I don't know if I showed you the photo of it. But it was for a very famous shoe brand, that a lot of us know was very popular in the 90s. It was super cool design. And if it was staying up for a really long time, I'd be like, This is awesome. And I'd love to show everyone. But it was also for a convention that was like three days. But it was not only like just the walls we made like these fake mountain type things on top. So it was just I mean, oh my god, I think it was like over 100 MDF panels. Oh my back with or 100 or 200 Oh, no, I'm sorry, I think it was 180 MDF panels. And then we have to frame them out. So they're not like, you know, so they're stable. So you had the free amount the back of those, it was just a waste on top of waste on top of waste. And then just shit bought from Amazon to like, fucking decorate. It was Oh my god. So depressing. That was one of those projects I go, this was cool. And it looks so cool. My Portfolio once it was done, and the pictures look beautiful. But then I'm just like, not super proud of it. You know, because it's dead and gone. And then when you talk to like the people that are actually on site that work as project managers and are dealing with the dumpsters, they're, you know, ordering a dumpster company. And I kept telling them, Hey, you guys, if it's a local New York thing, there's actually a lot of like, there's just like a local network that will if you post on there and say, Hey, we have three flats in flats, or what they call like, basically a fake wall. So we would make a lot of those. And those were standard sizes, which was like a four by eight, which is basically what a standard size for plywood is or MDF, right? And we would make a lot of those. And a lot of people would want to use them for like set design or whatever. And so like there's a whole network here that share stuff like that. And they were so pushing back on me like helping them with that. And I was like, why is it that hard? We just post one post and they'll come get it. You know? It's it's so it was just so crazy to me. They're like, No, we'd rather just throw it away. It's just easy. I just couldn't handle it.

Amanda
Yeah, yeah, that's ridiculous. So so now you sell vintage? Yes. And you do that full? Well, you I know you have another job, too. But yeah,

Leah
I can tell you a little bit about both. Where do you want me to start?

Amanda
Pick pick what feels right.

Leah
Okay, so um, I'll start with the second job. So I have a job right now that I have worked for four and a half years. It's at a local boutique hotel that is actually quite sustainable, which I always found very lovely about them. And makes my heart like very happy because I know the owner pretty well are one of the owners and he's great. His family's great. He's like, he saw me on packaging something the other day, just for example, and was like, oh my god, they wrapped it in plastic. Oh my god. Yeah. And I was like, I love you right now. Because he's just like this. He's like, a very, like, kind soul. And he's very quiet and calculated. And just like he's a real person. And I feel like he really cares, you know, and it was just so nice to see him say that. I was like, I know, Peter, or whatever else. They say. You can bleep it if you want. But you don't know his last name.

Amanda
Either sign. Yeah, Peter.

Leah
I was like, Oh, I know. It's crazy. But then we realize it's because like sometimes it travels through hot places. So it's like so it doesn't melt because the candle. Yeah, so we're like, oh, there's some ways like some things you can't prevent. But you know, they use biodegradable stuff for most things. They used to compost everything. And we also do a lot of waste management. And as far as food goes, because I work for events. So in events, there can be huge waste. But we work with chefs now, which wasn't in the past like this, that actually are really working hard and striving to be as good as they can possibly be to make sure that like Everyone's eating everything. And it's so lovely to see how little comes back to the kitchen. Because I'm usually the expo person. I'm like part of the management basically. And I do a lot of the expo and I work with a lot of the kitchen, I just love doing it, because it's very high pressure. So I do a good job. And I just love that he's a part of that, because I also time out when I'm sending things to make sure nothing's coming back with full plates. And it's just great. Like, I love that part of it. But I did work there. While I was working at the experience design company, because I have this like ultimate fear, I will be poor and lose my job. It's just who I am. I don't know where it comes from. I've not been homeless. My mom was homeless at one point. And she's told me terrible stories. So I feel like I just have this like, you know how they say sometimes the energy of like your ancestors can come through you what Yeah, I feel like my ancestors anxieties have like, really come through me and just like have gotten watered down through the generations, but it is like full on. Just on that track really fast. I met my half sister during COVID. My mom gave up for adoption when she was younger. Wow. And it was amazing, because it shows how much that actually is true because we were discussing stuff. And she's so much like my mother, and the anxiety part and the like stress in the way she reacts to things and the way she deals with things. And I'm going oh my god, there really is like something in these genetics that does this to us. Sorry, went on tangent there. But it's but it's really interesting. Like when I saw her, I was like, we were just connected immediately. And I was like, I feel you, I feel you. Like I mean, we talk about anxiety a lot. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I feel it too. So you know, you live in New York, it's like, it still is a rat. You know, it's a rat race. Like literally, I mean, it's I moved here so young, and I was lucky to have jobs. And I was always lucky to be a very social person and a pretty, I'm pretty good at reading people. So I'm also very good at like adapting to other people's personalities and understanding what they kind of need for me. Which is good and kind of bad, because it's very, like draining for me to be that type of person. Because I'm like, expelling a lot of my own energy to like, deal with them. But it has brought a lot of opportunities to me.

Amanda
Vintage is your main job, right?

Leah
it's about a half and half right now.

Amanda
That's pretty good, though.

Leah
It's kind of it's a weird situation, because I definitely have. I mean, like a decent amount of sales. You know, I feel like it's good. But I still like, I still feel it's not there yet. You know, I know it's not there yet. Because I've obviously worked in retail, I get it like I get how things work, and you're still buying but you're spending you're buying, you're selling but you're replying you know, it's like you're not like I always like the best point. So that can be a little bit stressful. So my other job definitely is like more of the bill payer, but I am growing the other business slowly and steady. Just through talking to people and I have to say like the vintage community is like, I'm gonna describe it as like kind of meeting my tribe. Because, in a way the vintage community is different than other I guess like retailers or other like businesses because you're selling the same type of product. But you all have different items, right? So you can be really supportive of other people and share their items and help them out and they help you out. Because you guys all have different things. It's vintage, you know, you're finding different items. So I feel like there's a lot of like community support there, which is really lovely. I don't find a lot of negativity yet. I haven't found it yet. Hopefully I don't. I've had a lot of good people on my side. But we'll see you know, when you get bigger and bigger will get worse. Like a bad relationship or just you know, if you're famous, like my friend is a singer and she always tells me she's like you gotta prepare for the bad. You got to know who's your friends. Because as you get bigger, you don't know because people just want to be around you for your energy. So yes, so make sure you're paying attention to that. Yeah, but yeah, so that's always you know, it's been a near and dear thing to me because I feel good about what I'm doing versus feeling bad about what I'm doing. So the stress that I used to have has just gone down like halfway, you know, the anxiety almost gone. So many things are changing in my body. I just feel better, healthier. Green. No, it's It's almost like, it's so true. Like I was actually I'm about to read this book about mind body connection, and how it's, it really is so important, like, how you're treating yourself and how you're speaking about yourself and what you are passionate about, and what gives you life and breath. You know, it's so important to like, like to grow. So you have to, you have to love what you're doing, you know, you have to be, you know, an advocate for what you're doing to like, make sure that you continue to grow in a good way, in a, you know, a way that actually, you know, makes you feel good.

Amanda
I love that. I think that's so true. I mean, for anything you're working on, right? I think like it goes back to our conversation about being kind of stuck at your job. Because of, you know, health insurance money, all these reasons and how you're like stuck in this situation. That's actually bad for your physical health. Yeah. I think because you need health care. What?

Leah
Yeah, I know. And that was like, the saddest thing to me, because I had such good health care with that job. It was like, I mean, at the other job, we work the retail company couldn't even compare to that, you know? No, it's terrible. Like, it was so bad. I was like, How is this so bad? This is a big, like, it's becoming bigger and bigger, like, how are we not? Why are our co pays so big? Why am I like paying this much when I go here, so I had really good health care there. And it was like, I paid for my whole family. And I was able to do that. And we had great health care. I had like the the top tier, you know, we could go to anyone. So that was definitely sad to leave. But I think you know, we we found our, our like health care through New York State and you know, we pay for dental visits, I'm like dentist, one thing I don't fuck around with because I went to a dentist one time with my New York health care. They fucked up my tooth and I had to get a crown and it was like $2,500 So I'm not doing that anymore. I'm just paying for my damn health, like dental you know?

Amanda
So, okay, well, so let's talk about selling vintage. How do you source because, I mean, we're going to talk about this, but there is this myth out there. Oh, yeah. I just released an episode today, trying to debunk this myth because I receive so many DMS every week, emails, DMS comments on Instagram posts about two things one resellers are buying secondhand because they're getting all the quote, good. Oh, man to so many people are secondhand shopping right now that there's nothing good left at the store. And they're driving at prices and like, you and I both know that. That's not true. I was I just want to, I want to hear it from the horse's okay. Tell me where you source.

Leah
So I personally sourced now from a rag house. So basically, I'm sourcing from a warehouse that receives stuff that are donated things that are donated, and they give me good prices on things, you know, and they sort things out and they use the rest to make rags for I guess, I don't know, maybe I've never actually asked him I think for like restaurants and businesses, whatever, sell them somewhere else. So they're usually just using everything they can from what they get. And, you know, I was reading some statistics, it's like 80 billion new pieces of clothes are produced each year and that becomes a larger number every year. Unless we stop this so it's like there's not a shortage of things going to thrift stores. There's not a shortage at all. And I also think that like this thrifting idea that like these people are thrifting and then selling you know these big companies are selling on their website. That's not true. I mean, yeah, sure. I love thrifting still because it's like it is something that gets me excited and I love it. I love like the hunt, you know, but it's like usually a personal thing. I just like do it for myself because I really enjoy it right? And I think a lot of other resellers like me do the same thing. They just like enjoy it. But then they have another source that they're going to like either they're going to Irag house if they're they're available. A lot of people I know go to estate sales. I've done the rag house just because I have a friend that goes with me. It's in me It's really close to me, it's like an hour drive. So for me, it's like, I get 250 pieces at once. And it's just done, you know, and we have like a day of like going crazy because her and I are just like we almost are on like drugs. When we go there, we just like feel crazy, like excited. You know, we're just like, ah, we've had like, 10 cups of coffee or something. And we're just going crazy. Right, right. But yes, that is, that's not true. I mean, it's just not like, How can you say that when there's things constantly being dropped off, like I walk by the Salvation Army or the goodwill in New York, because I still go there. You know, just for fun. And there's a whole room that they usually have open like the door, and it's just a drop off room for donations, and it's filled to the brim. They can't even get the stuff to the floor. There's so much stuff.

Amanda
I know you're preaching to the choir here. I already know this. I I just feel like we need to repeat it as much as possible. Because it's really this misinformation out there. I mean, I honestly think it's a it's a argument that's being thrown out there as legit fact, and it's just like bad fat around because it's really more. This is my opinion here. It's more like gatekeeping, secondhand shopping, thrifting, etc. I say that because I've seen this kind of thing apply to various scenes or other interests that I've had in my lifetime, you know? Yeah. ever like, like as a teenager? Like it was like, oh, you can't be like, alternative. He must be like a poser. Have a brand new pair of genkos Oh, totally. Yeah, you're like, yeah, they are brand new, because I'm 14 Yeah, I was wearing child clothes before. I know, you know, and it was like, why can't I love this music just as much as you do? Why can't I be at the show? Like, why is it less legitimate for me to get so I remember. Right? I was at a show once where a girl put a cigarette out on the top why she was like, You don't belong here. Like, extreme version of this. But it's the same kind of thing where it's like, really, I'm just mad that other people are shopping secondhand or making a living off of reselling. And I feel like reselling is such a valuable because so many people don't have the time or access. Yeah, to go thrifting you know, or just so I get really riled up.

Leah
I get extremely riled up to because it's like in New York, I've noticed this like big trend since I moved back from Bolivia that a lot of people are so much more aware of what they're doing. And what they're throwing away is that they put things out on the street, and see if someone wants it first. They don't just throw things away. And she's great. Obviously, bedbugs is an issue. So we'd be careful. We're not we're not getting any furniture here. You know, I don't at least I don't know if people are good for them. But you know, I see that and I'm like, I've got some dishes off the street. I'm like, great. This is like amazing. I love that my neighborhood does that. Like I'll see it and I'm like, oh my god, it's just beautiful. And this person just had them in the basement for like 50 years. And they're just cleaning it out. And I got like this amazing mid century mirror from like, next door when they were reinvented renovating like the building. Like, this is awesome. This would probably cost me like $600 and I not gonna pay that. And someone's gonna throw I actually sorry, on that note, I dumped I went into the dumpster and had my husband like, help me bring it out of the dumpster. Someone threw it in the dumpster. And I was like, This mirror is amazing. Don't do this. It just made me so sad. And I was like I was I mean, I was about to go back in and Milton was like, Stop, don't do it. He's like, we're taking this one thing, and we're going relieving. So he's pretty tolerable. He tolerates like, my weird stuff sometimes that I do, but I just I can't see this happening. It's so hard for me. Like, it's just like, I'm on. Can't we just ask people if they want it or just leave it on the street and someone always takes it. I'm telling you, it's New York, just tons of people. They always want something and it's free. And it's expensive here and we need free things. Right. But yeah, it's sorry. I also went on tangent and forgot what we were kind of going to

Amanda
well, you know, I wanted to bring up that there is an account I follow on Instagram. Do you follow this account? Wait, hold on. I'm looking at right now because you need to know it's called stooping and

Leah
yes, I do. Oh, man,

Amanda
my god amazing cat tree. It's a great.

Leah
It’s funny. I actually posted something recently on that. And it was actually it was kind of a joke because it was this weird bust of my God. What was it that woman? No, not that woman. One of those like Wonder Woman or something like that with like a cross or I don't know what it was. It was just very interesting. And I was like, Come and get it guys. No one came to get it. And I was like oh Like, come on, everyone always gets to stooping it stuff. Everyone's always like on it and no one wanted it. Yeah. So it's fine. But I do follow them. But unfortunately, it's like, it's always because I live in North Brooklyn. And a lot of this stuff is in like, South Brooklyn. So I can't ever make it on time. But I'm so happy that like, people grab it up. You know, it makes me super excited, because I see it. And it does make my heart extremely happy again, because I'm like, there we go. Like that's the way it should be. We don't want this here. Take it and I'm going to post this. So it is a wonderful accounts.

Amanda
It's amazing. And the stuff they show. I'm like, I can't believe someone threw that out. But yeah, yeah.

Leah
Can you believe it?

Amanda
We need more of that. We need something like that here. It's crazy. I should start that. Um, anyway. So okay. Why do you love working with vintage? Like, why is this making you happier than your previous job?

Leah
Okay, let me think here. Can I start by just telling you why I named the company Seedling?. Okay, so seedling vintage came, the name actually came because I am an earth sign. I am extremely into gardening into nature. I love hiking, anything that has to do with the environment, I want to be in it, you know, it makes me calm, it makes me peaceful. As soon as I walk out there, I breathe, I feel calm. And it's the most amazing feeling to me. Because meditation is very hard for me. I'm not a person that can sit still. Right? So that's like my meditation and I feel stillness. So it's lovely. So seedling kind of came from there because of gardening and growth. So when I thought about it, I was like, Okay, well, I worked at an urban farm for a little bit during COVID, with my friend that is a teacher for NYU. And I remember us planting all the seeds for the season, or different seeds at different times. And they all start the same way with two small leaves at the top. So basically, the two leaves that are like sprouted are just to feed the plant vegetable flower tree, before the actual seedling develops in it, and then takes its intended form and shayou want me to start?pe, thus becoming what is meant to be. So I felt like it was kind of related to just the narrative narrative of life, and how we always try and push against who we are. But at the end of it all we are who we are meant to be, you know, we can't push against it. We can't force it. It is going to be what it is. Right? Yeah. So that's kind of where it's kind of philosophical the way I came through it. And I love I kind of I can't help it. It's just like, I always have these like thoughts. It has to be like this meaning behind it. But it does, it just comes down to it. So yeah, that's where it came from.

Amanda
I love that. Yeah. So, so selling vintage, you know, really important to you something you're really, really passionate about. What's hard about it, because it can't always be easy. There's got to be some times where you're like this. This sucks right now.

Leah
Yeah, um, oh, gosh. So in short, I think basically, where I've come to in my life is I'm just trying to adapt to everything. And not just go like this normal job route that obviously wasn't for me was giving me like a lot of anxiety and just not making me feel good. And I'm just not a complacent person. And I finally realized that like, I kind of need these different avenues and I enjoy these different projects to feel like a little bit more fulfilled. So I think I forever have a desire to change and continue and want more and dive in for something. Dive into something that I'm more passionate about. Because I'm a fully invested person when I get into something, I just want to keep growing going with it. I think that derives from like my feelings of self doubt. So it's kind of interesting because it goes like I'm a very Are you a hard worker, but it actually comes from the self doubt I have for myself. So it's this push and pull that I have, which I don't want to have the self doubt, but it does lead me to really interesting places to stay. And I have also noticed like this, I've kind of come to this conclusion about creatives that there's like these two types of creatives. And I mean, this is only my conclusion, obviously, everyone has their own, you know, vision on this, this is what I've come to, is that there's like these creatives that have self doubt and need to prove to themselves that they can do something and people that have self doubt and are worried to plunge into the unknown. So for me, I'm the first, I'm the person that plunges into the pool headfirst and just goes for it because I need to prove to myself that my self doubt is just my self doubt. It's not real. You know what I mean? And, you know, creative can be hard because a lot of people that's what happens you. You're always like, is it okay, is it it? Does it feel right? Am I doing okay? Does it look good? am I comparing myself to other people too much? Because that's the problem with social media. It's like, it's hard, you feel like you're seeing the best of everything. And it's because it's all curated. And I definitely do the same thing. So my stuff, you know, I have to I put the best of my pictures up, you know, I do the same thing. But there's so much self doubt. And sometimes I try and post like outtakes from silly stuff feed now, because I'll have like, the craziest faces or just like, it'll take me like 20 shots to get like one decent shot of the outfit because I'm out of control. Moving around to just being wild. So yeah, I think a self doubt has definitely been like my worst enemy and greatest motivator when it comes to this.

Amanda
Oh, God, I hear you. I think that's so many creatives. Right? Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. I, you know, I know we touched on this, I just wanted to talk about it a little bit more. You know, we, we talked about this myth that we're running out of secondhand clothing. Yes, not running out, not running out. And you were telling me you've actually seen the impact of the access secondhand clothing in Bolivia?

Leah
Oh, my gosh. So yes, um, so my husband and I got married in 2014, I believe, we move to Bolivia to 2017. And so there is one of like the biggest open air markets for I guess, just secondhand clothing or secondhand items, actually, not just clothing. It's like, like literally everything under the sun, you can find there. And it's called Oh, my God, Feria de, I'll go, which is like, so we lived in La Paz, Bolivia. And El Alto is like a little bit higher up. It's like the plateau before you hit the mountains. So I'd go up there. And I would buy clothes for my son a lot of those which I hoarded for when he gets older. So he's wearing them now. But it's funny, because the US actually sends a lot of stuff down there. So that just shows how much extra we have of everything. Because they're sending piles and piles, and piles and piles and boxes. And this and that. I mean, the if I could take a photo for you and show you how big this is. It's just it's Unbelievable. It's like, I don't even know how many blocks, it's just so huge. I I'll have to find a photo somewhere to show you because it's unbelievable. And it's kind of like the style of you're just digging through bins, basically. But you would see tags from savers on there. Like I know what tags look like from different vintage stores, obviously from just been shopping for like my whole life. So I'd be like, Oh my gosh, this is crazy. This is just coming from the US. It's all just making its way over here. And that just goes to show how they don't have enough places to put it here that they're actually sending it to other people. So that's another debunking myth of that.

Amanda
Yeah, we're not running out of secondhand clothes. I just I can't say that enough, because I received so many questions like, you know, for people who are like, Hey, I'm a secondhand seller. Yeah, and I've been getting a lot of pushback from people telling me that what I'm doing is unethical or wrong. And that makes me really, really sad actually. So here, right, right. You know, selling secondhand clothing has been going on since the beginning of time. I think we're talking about it a little bit more because there's more access to it than has been there in the past here in the Global North, you know, because we have all these platforms. But first, we need those platforms because even you know only 10% of stuff that goes to a thrift store. sold in the first place. Oh my gosh,

Leah
I didn't even know that. But there you go. That's like the shining example. Like when I would go to the feria, tons of stuff from here. It's just all getting shipped down there. It's it's amazing to see how much

Amanda
yeah, no, I mean, the thrift stores are receiving way more than they can begin to sell. And so what's happened is one, they're even pickier about what hits the sales floor. Yeah. And two, they only keep it out there for a few weeks, maybe a month. And they're like, well, it's got to be pushed out to make room for the new. I mean, that's, you know, we're all familiar with the color coding, of course, what's the deal? What's the deal? Right? They're not doing that just because it's like a super fun thing to have as a customer. I mean, though, it is fun. You're like it is the blue tags, right? But it's actually because they use those tickets as those color tags as markers, a reminder of like, yeah, that stuff came in the first week of the month. It's time for all the stuff that came in that period and stuff with the blue tags to be half off, you know, and exactly, and then in a week, we're going to pull it off the floor because there's gonna be new blue tags coming in.

Leah
And that's the stuff they probably sent to South America. Oh, pulling off for their for packing it up and sending it I've seen the boxes. You know, I've walked into a shoe store at the Feria that they have a box of shoes they received to the United States, and they're selling them. So it's just it's there.

Amanda
Yeah, there's there's so much so much. And i just i i First off, I guess I just feel like we all need to be there and counteract these bad faith arguments against resell against getting more people to shop secondhand. I don't even understand how anybody can feel okay, saying that out loud. I know. It's really sad

Leah
to me, like I just don't understand why that would be something you would feel bad about. Like it should never, you should not feel guilty about reusing something or trying to like, do something better? Or just I mean, if it makes you feel good, I'm not saying like, if it makes you feel good doing that, like why do you have to listen to everyone's opinion about what you're doing?

Amanda
It's a hard world, right? I think. So in the social media landscape that we live in. Now. We we experience other people's opinions more often than we have ever in his the history of humanity. Oh, gotcha. Yes. Right. Like before someone would have had to go to the effort of writing you a letter,

Leah
oh, my god or passing notes in high school.

Amanda
Exactly. And even then the number of opinions that you would be a subject to in any given day would be significantly smaller, because they could only come from people who personally had contact with you in real life.

Leah
Yes. Oh my gosh.

Amanda
the bad faith argument out there is that if we all go secondhand shops, and we're taking clothing away from poor people, i i First off, I hate that this like feeling that like oh, no, really my bad attitude about secondhand shopping is like, no, it's actually like, I'm trying to protect these poor people out there, right, I'm doing a public service. But like we said, There's way more clothes than can even go around, that everybody, regardless of income level will have plenty of access, plenty of secondhand clothing. And we need to stop scapegoating resellers or secondhand shoppers, for creation of going to the store not finding what we want right away, because we never did. We know I know, the store and found exactly what we wanted in one trip.

Leah
Well, like, also, like don't expect perfection, like just stop expecting everything to be like this little cute box that everything's gonna be wrapped in. It's like, there's so much complication. And there's so much that goes into all of this. Like, I guess I'm kind of tying this into just being a reseller. There is so much going into it. I mean, the people don't realize that, like, I actually sell things at a pretty low price point. I was talking actually to a friend yesterday, and they're like, well, for what you do, and like the pictures you take, it seems like you're selling at a really low price point. But I'm like, You know what, but I feel like, it's okay, like, I don't want to sell for hire, but I get what you're saying.

Leah
But, you know, I guess that's my own moral decision. But, you know, I do see people that do sell for a lot sometimes. And I'm like, Whoa, this is quite a bit.
Like some people have these amazing pieces, and I get that but then it makes me feel like it's just heading back to that same realm of consumerism where you're like, who has the most money to buy this thing? You know, and, and that, I don't know, that's a little bit hard for me because I only have a few like really high priced items and everything else is pretty affordable. So that's just my own, you know, conscious I guess. But,

Amanda
I mean, definitely. I also think like, what is Affordable is a relative term to because yeah, I look at your shop and be like, what? I could buy something new for forever 21 for less than that, and you're like totally true Shay, you could that's not the point.

Leah
Yeah, that's actually a great, that's another subject too. It is so true. Like the work that I put into things. It's just me and my husband, right? You know, you're working, like your time working out, you and I have a son, you know, it's not like, I'm just doing this, and it's just really, really easy. Like, no, I'm making sure things don't smell like someone's basement from six, seven years ago, you know, I'm making sure things are clean. And sometimes I don't get all the things out, because I can't have all the time. But you know, I am doing my best, you know, amending things, I'm trying to make sure I'm giving discounts on anything that does have issues with it, you know, because I feel like people can and should start doing things themselves. Because I think we live in this world where you and I probably didn't grew up in it as much that like younger people don't realize that, like, you can do things for yourself, you can do them, I used to sew little things for my dolls, and, you know, used to so little, like dresses, or I used to make little wallets out of things like you can do things like this. So social media has made things seem as if like, you don't have the power to fix this yourself. Like, it's not that hard, you know, like, we can do it. And you know, the work that's put into this, like, it does retain value, because not only do we care about what we do, but like I care about how it looks, you know, and my husband does that for free for me, you know, he has other jobs, he sets up for me and does all that stuff. And I know you work with your husband too. So it's Yeah, yeah, do it.

Amanda
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, like podcasting is sort of similar to resale as in that, like, people think I just like plug in a microphone and record a conversation uploaded to the internet. And I'm like, Oh, my God, there's like so many steps in between, you know, like, it's the same thing with resale. It's not like you just rolled into the goodwill, grabbed a few things real quick, took them home, slapped them up on a website and collected your money.

Leah
I take pride in what I do, and I want it to look nice. So, you know, I want to show that like, this dress is beautiful on some wine or, you know, and I'm also very honest, like, hey, this didn't zip up in the back, like, just so you know, like, make sure you check the dimensions because I wasn't getting into it. So like, I'm always very honest about all of those things. You know, like, people will be like, Oh, everything fits you. I'm like, No, it doesn't. It's a trick. Like, you know, you have to be on I'm like, I always tell people because people messaged me, they're like, everything looks great on you. I'm like, No, it's not like that. It's called a trick. And my husband's a photographer for 20 years. He knows the tricks. I click shit all the time. I'm always taking clips in the front in the back to make things look nice, you know, and I'm always very transparent about it. I'm like, This is not fit me. It's crazy.

Amanda
yeah. Funny. It is. I mean, you know, you only know it if you do it. You know, like, like, all of the work that goes into it. And like, by the way, everyone, if you just got outraged when Leah said that she clips stuff. Like every retailer careful. Yeah, every retailer is doing that though. Like I I'm gonna bleep out the name of this retailer. But yeah. Obviously, I do they clip the shit out of stuff. Of course, their denim and some other like more specialty items. They actually alter them to fit the model, in fact, yes, they do. Yeah, they do. Yes, they do. Normal. Right.

Leah
Yeah. I mean, Milton was telling me a story about if he's on a lingerie shoot, they put, if it doesn't fit the model, they would have this trick where they would put like a piece of like, toilet paper roll in the back, so it would fit in the front. It was like the most crazy thing I'd ever heard. He's like, just grab a toilet paper roll. I'm like, What the fuck are you talking about? He's like, No, seriously, a toilet paper roll? And I was like, okay, and then we got a picture one day of it. And I was like, it's so real. Yes. So like, these tricks are real and it just makes the picture look nice. It's ridiculous. So like, Don't ever believe that things. That's the thing. It's like there's always this like, this mystified version that everything is great. It's not like that. You know, we're trying to do our best to make things look very nice. But yeah, no, it's honesty. Like I'm being honest. Like, I always write it down. Like this has been this. This has been this. But you know, we're careful. I'm careful about it, guys.

Amanda
Well, do you have anything else you'd like to add any important knowledge wisdom, final thoughts you'd like to share with everyone?

Leah
Ah, I just want to say that I still enjoy like The grungy, you know, mom and pop shops picking, it gives me the anxiety, the excitement, the emotions, like I think I haven't lost any of that, you know, obviously, I'm doing on a bigger scale, but like, I still love all that. And I think it's cool that people still do it.

Amanda
Yeah, I mean, I love hearing that, because I don't want people to stop doing it. And as a person who just does it for my own personal use, like, I love secondhand shopping like it's Yeah, because it's not predictable. Like, um, it's not like you're like, Okay, I'm going to go to Target and get a set of sheets and some bins and some underwear and some socks and you know, that that will happen. It's not like that. You can't go in with a plan.

Leah
Like it's, that's what's exciting about it. Yeah, it's like it makes my stomach like get butterflies every just like for last comment, every place I go to visit. I will like be staring out the window looking for thrift stores. And I'm like literally taking a pin and dropping it and like Milton stop the car real quick. Let me put the pin in. And then like go visit it later. You know,

Amanda
though that is everywhere we go. We bought an RV during the pandemic. Yeah, and every trip in it was less camping and more thrifting

Leah
oh my god, I mean, Milton Milton is not like a huge thrifter Oh, yeah. So he you know his his tolerance of like how long he can be there's like, I could be there for hours. He can be there for like 20 minutes. So usually it's a drop me off situation or me driving there myself and doing it for hours. So I usually have to time that out and do it. But it's okay. He's very supportive of it. But yeah, I'm the same way. I'm very much like I love to see it. It's so much fun. Yeah, so I think it's still like long live the old school way of doing things. But it also is awesome to have like those big warehouses that are like also doing that, you know?

Amanda
Yeah, it's totally my dream to go to one of those because I just want to

Leah
Oh, my God, it's amazing down. Yeah, I wish I could take a photo. They don't let you. I know.

Amanda
I gotta figure out some other way to get because I'm not a reseller. And no, it was for me. And

Leah
I'm like, Well, you could go in as a guest with me. So I have my friend come in as a guest. You can like bring one person to help you. Okay,

Amanda
next time I come to New York. Yeah, we're gonna do this because I just need to know I need to know guys. Yeah, it's

Leah
really fun. Honestly, it's fun. It's crazy. And I respect their no picture because I'm like, I don't want to be on the blacklist. Like I don't.

Amanda
Yeah, no, I get. Yeah, I don't I don't want that either. Yeah, thank you so much. This was so much fun. What a great man. I appreciate it. Yeah,

Leah
thanks for putting this out there and I love what you're doing. And you know, props to you for working and doing this as well because it's hard.

AMANDA
Thanks again to Leah for spending a few hours talking to me. I am really grateful for it! You can find Leah on instagram as @seedling_vintage. And I’ll share that in the show notes, too. I asked Leah later on if she had any final notes she wanted me to share with you and she asked me to remind you all that it’s so important to teach young children now about how there are enough clothes already on this earth, we don't need to contribute to overproduction and waste. She said “Less is more with kids, they grow quickly and if they don't ever "go shopping" it doesn't become a part of their mentality to think it's so normal to HAVE to get new clothes before each school year etc.” And I can agree with this. I think we are sold this idea that to be good parents, aunties, uncles, godparents, etc, that we should shower kids with stuff. And new stuff is kind of addictive, right? I spend a lot of time (usually while I’m doing laundry or other household chores) thinking about my own relationship to shopping and stuff. When I was a kid, virtually the only thing we did as a family was go shopping. Like a standard Friday night or Saturday afternoon was hitting the mall with my mom and grandma, preceded or followed by dinner at Pizza Hut (or something similar). This was how my family spent time together. The adults in my life didn’t read books to me or teach me crafts or tell me stories or go for walks or play games with me. This is how they bonded, and how we bonded. I quickly learned that shopping was fun and how relationships were built. Yeah, this sounds pretty weird when I say it out loud, but that’s definitely how my family bonded. By buying things. By going to a mall. I know I’m not the only one. But it created really positive associations with shopping, with new stuff, with the mere act of being in a store. In fact, I dreamed of working retail as a kid. How glamorous and exciting it would be to work in a store, surrounded by stuff that people would buy. People would love me just because I was there, in a store, everyone’s favorite place to be. Of course, then I actually had a retail job and found that the vast majority of customers treated me like garbage, but that still didn’t break the connection in my mind between shopping, new stuff, and love.

Understanding why we buy so much stuff starts with taking these journeys back in time to other parts of our lives, where we can start to see how it all began. And that’s step one to changing it up, for ourselves and the next generations.

One last thing for today: I just wanted to thank all of you for your kind thoughts and messages as I took the last two weeks off from making the show. I am a workaholic, I definitely grew up in the kind of environment where the adults’ perceived value of one another and themselves was rooted in how hard they worked. So even though I know that everyone requires rest and should take that time for themselves. It’s really difficult to actually do it. I work a full time job, I still help a few clients, I have all of the adult responsibilities of a parent and partner. It’s a lot. And normally I can juggle it, but honestly, that week I created an instagram post debunking a lot of the myths around secondhand clothing and the ethics of it all….well, it just got to be too much. I was drowning in nasty messages via instagram, email, facebook, and yes, even linkedin. It was the straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back. And you know what? Camels are strong. They can carry 375 to 600 pounds on their backs. I am strong, and I can handle a lot. Working on Clotheshorse has tested me at times. I’m not looking to be famous or even known by a lot of people. That’s a really uncomfortable place for someone like me who has experienced a lot of trauma. Every time I post about vegan leather being plastic, I am drowned in threats and nasty messages. Last year some people who I assume are vegans found my phone number online–like my personal phone number–and sent me creepy, threatening texts. That was a big scary lesson for me.

But it didn’t silence me, nor will it silence me. The same goes for talking about anything else I discuss around here. I don’t take these subjects lightly. I don’t say things arbitrarily without a lot of research and consideration. And I stand by what I do here. And trust me, that’s a learning experience for me. I’m a fearful person, so my first impulse is to immediately vacate any kind of scary, uncomfortable scenario. But I stand by what I do here and that means I’m learning how to be strong when the dark corners of the internet jump out in front of me.

To stay strong, to keep up the hard work…I need to give myself a break sometimes. And I’m going to continue to do that more. I want to go on RV adventures with Dustin, I want to see all of my loved ones that I haven’t seen since the beginning of the pandemic, I want to travel, I want to rest, I want to meet new people here in our new home. I want to live life. But I also want to keep up the work I’m doing here with Clotheshorse. When I say that working on Clotheshorse is the best thing that has happened to me, that’s not hyperbole. It has given me meaning and a sense of purpose that I never had before. And meeting all of you, learning from all of you…that is one of the best gifts I’ve ever been given. So thank you for listening, spending time with me, and boosting me when I need it.