Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Orthodox Christian Parenting, hosted by Faithtree Resources Executive Director (and mom of four!) Michelle Moujaes, is a weekly podcast for parents and grandparents navigating the holy struggle of raising kids in the Orthodox Faith. Each episode offers honesty, encouragement, and practical wisdom from the Church—creating space to exhale, freedom from the pressure to be perfect, and openness to grow as you raise children who are deepening their knowledge and love of Christ.
We're not really supposed to be superhuman. Like, to me, one of the things I was the worst as a dad is, you know, we get the dinner table. You're finally set. I finally sit down, and then someone knocks over the milk. Mhmm.
Philip Mamalakis:You know? And sometimes I'm like, it'll dry up eventually. I I just don't wanna get up. It's just exhausting. I think we should respect our limits.
Philip Mamalakis:We're not supposed to be saints. We're supposed to become saints. So we have a rule in our home. Only pour as much milk in the cup as you wanna clean up. Why should I get mad at a child who's learning, you know, fine motor skills?
Philip Mamalakis:But, also, I wanna respect my struggle. This is hard for me.
Michelle Moujaes:Welcome to Orthodox Christian Parenting, where we bring the church's timeless wisdom into the everyday chaos of raising kids. I'm Michelle Moujaes, and we are welcoming back doctor Philip Mamalakis, author of the classic Orthodox parenting book, Parenting Toward the Kingdom. Doctor Mamalakis teaches pastoral care at Hellenic College, Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology, and he's been a longtime collaborator with Faith Tree. And most importantly, he is a father of seven children and now a grandfather of two. Today, we're gonna look more deeply into the parent child relationship and how we separate our personal struggles from our child's to help us kinda clear up some of the confusion of parenting.
Michelle Moujaes:Thank you for joining us today, Philip. It's fun to have you back.
Philip Mamalakis:Thanks for having me back, Michelle. It's great to be here.
Michelle Moujaes:Well, I'm excited to talk about kind of the separation between our struggle and our kids' struggle because I know as so many moms tell me and as so many people have really reached out to Faith Tree, especially we did a pretty vast survey of parents, and they said, you know, how do we separate that which is stressing us or scaring us or, you know, parenting from fear when our kid has such a different experience? And they're struggling with their own things. So I'm excited. Tell us. Well, it's
Philip Mamalakis:hard to do because I know as a dad, you know, there's certain things that just are so difficult, like siblings fighting constantly. You just feel like... Or or whining if your child's having a miserable day, and it's like, oh, it's driving me crazy.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah.
Philip Mamalakis:Or or even something like when they knock over milk on the table. Like, really, that is really hard for me. And the temptation as parents is to think, this is a problem. I need to do something. When in fact, it might be just something our kids are feeling, something they're thinking, or something they're learning.
Philip Mamalakis:So the temptation is is to react like we talked about, react out of that because we are having a hard time.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Philip Mamalakis:Rather than learning, alright, to respond to our child considering, well, maybe this is a normal developmental thing. So we need to separate our struggle from whatever struggle our children are having. So when... I'd be curious in your experience and from the moms that you're hearing, you know, what are some of the experiences they have? Like, for me, it's like sibling rivalry or some of the most difficult things.
Philip Mamalakis:And we can just look at that and say, alright. What is our struggle in that?
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Philip Mamalakis:And then what are our kids struggling with?
Michelle Moujaes:Right. I... We've heard a lot of different things, and some of them super interesting. Some of them I very much identify. Some of them are a whole new set of issues for parents that are right behind us perhaps.
Michelle Moujaes:But something that keeps coming up again and again, I would say there's two two major themes. One is how do I keep my kids close to the church? Like when they leave my house, when they get married, how do I make sure that they stay involved in the life of the church? That's a big fear for a lot of parents. And the other thing that we've heard a lot of and I know personally in my group of friends, you know, with my community at church, there are just people that struggle so desperately with all the scary things.
Michelle Moujaes:Are they gonna be okay? You know? And that takes a variety of forms. You know? My kid is so lonely.
Michelle Moujaes:Are they gonna be okay? My kid is on the spectrum. Are they gonna be okay? My kid is dating someone I can't stand. Are they gonna be okay?
Michelle Moujaes:And so I think separating out those things kinda like peeling back layers of an onion is an important skill to really learn.
Philip Mamalakis:In each of those cases, you have two people. Let's say the parent and the child.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Philip Mamalakis:Like, you could take anyone. My child is lonely or they're getting picked on. Mhmm. Right? Well, what is that like for us to observe?
Michelle Moujaes:Horrible.
Philip Mamalakis:It's horrible. Horrible. And so we're feeling scared. We're we're we're in pain. We feel compelled to act.
Philip Mamalakis:That is a different struggle than, let's say, what your child is struggling with. Your child is gonna have to learn. What do I do when I feel lonely? That's a normal human experience.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Philip Mamalakis:And if we're thinking long term, our role as a parent is not to protect our child from ever feeling lonely, but to prepare them to know what to do when they go out into life when they feel lonely, which means kind of learning to have peace. Right? Learning to find stillness, learning to share with people they trust, learning to do things in that space that are constructive rather than destructive.
Michelle Moujaes:And destructive.
Philip Mamalakis:So we wanna teach that. But in order to teach that to a child who's going through this, first, we have to do something to our fear, our pain, and, you know, our impulse to act. So the first step is to just recognize there are two struggles going on. Each struggle has to be respected.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Philip Mamalakis:So we talked about our struggle, we talked about self care. We wanna learn how to become aware that just because I'm freaking out doesn't necessarily mean I need to act, and it doesn't... Certainly doesn't tell me what is best way to act. So the first thing we need to do is learn to calm ourselves down.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. That's helpful because I know for a lot of parents, we just wanna solve it. We don't want our kid to sit in the pain. Wanna move out of that really quickly.
Philip Mamalakis:We wanna stop the pain.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah.
Philip Mamalakis:Yeah. Right? Because it's painful for us.
Michelle Moujaes:So painful. Absolutely. Pain. That's right.
Philip Mamalakis:And so our our our our impulse is we wanna take the pain away. But is that best for kids? Is that is that gonna help them to learn how to navigate pain when they're older? And which
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. I'm gonna push on this one. Do you think it's reasonable, unreasonable for so many parents that we've worked with across the country? We've heard this feedback. These are different times.
Michelle Moujaes:These are really serious times. The stakes are so much higher. Well, first of is that true?
Philip Mamalakis:It feels true to
Michelle Moujaes:me. Okay.
Philip Mamalakis:And the only thing I can see that is unique is these technologies are unique. So I think there's a lot of evidence that people have always... That world has always been dark. There's always been all sorts of distorted thinking. There's always been violence.
Philip Mamalakis:But now with technologies, it's in our homes a lot more.
Michelle Moujaes:Right. There's not really the safe space.
Philip Mamalakis:There... You you hear about an abduction in Atlanta Mhmm. Of child life. You hear about a horror story on the other side of the world. And then with social media, clearly, this stuff is...
Philip Mamalakis:But it's hard to believe that it's really darker now than it was when the time, let's say, Christ came into the world. Mhmm. And he comes in as the son of god, you know, himself, and then they crucify him. Mhmm. And the apostles were hoping for a messiah who would free them, and they watch him get murdered.
Philip Mamalakis:Mhmm. And then he he come... And they... You could see there's evidence. They didn't really understand it, but it was really dark.
Philip Mamalakis:And then he sends him out into a world that's really against this gospel.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Philip Mamalakis:But Christ tells us, you know, the darkness can't overtake the light. Right. So that that is our fear, which means if we're gonna learn to respond to our child and prepare them to go out into the world, Teach them how to use technologies appropriately. Teach them how to set boundaries to what they see and what they watch because it is appropriate that we have boundaries around our home, that there are certain things we don't permit in our home, that we turn off the screens, we turn off the tech, we... You know, we are teaching how to live.
Philip Mamalakis:Right? We wanna prepare our kids, but there is something to be said about protecting them from exposure to certain things. The trick with protecting them is twofold. You know, what is the level? At what point, you know, are they gonna learn about these these really scary things in the world?
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Philip Mamalakis:Right? It's hard to know at what age they need to hear this. And the second thing I found with my kids is there's no fully protecting them.
Michelle Moujaes:There is no fully
Philip Mamalakis:protecting will hear things and see things and encounter things. I'm like, how did that happen? So I don't think building up a defense is the witness of the gospel and is the best way to help people stay connected to the church.
Michelle Moujaes:Tell me more what you mean by that.
Philip Mamalakis:Because I was in... I was at a... Giving a talk once in this... In a retreat in a parish. And at lunch break, I ate...
Philip Mamalakis:I just ate the buffet, and there was salad. And so I was in... I took the salad. I ate this salad, and I think it was the best salad I'd ever had in my life. Like, the lettuce was incredible, and I wasn't even sure it was lettuce.
Philip Mamalakis:It was something different. And the cherry tomatoes were an explosion of... I I felt like I'd never had a cherry tomato until I had that. Yeah. It was so good, Michelle, that after lunch, I could not not say something from the podium.
Philip Mamalakis:I said, what was that salad I just ate? And a woman raised her hand, an organic farmer who had made the salad for for the brunch. And she raised her vegetables. And I said, that lettuce... She goes, it wasn't lettuce.
Philip Mamalakis:It was kale. I'm like, kale? It was soft. And she goes, I massaged the kale.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh my goodness.
Philip Mamalakis:And I'm imagining a little table, little little piece of kale, little massaging.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah.
Philip Mamalakis:Yeah. And I told her from the podium, I said, your children must be such tomato snobs that how will they... How can they ever eat tomatoes outside of their home? And she goes, oh, yeah. They go places like, that's not a real tomato.
Michelle Moujaes:That's not a real tomato.
Philip Mamalakis:And I commented. Did she have to protect her kids from eating bad tomatoes? How did she raise kids to intuitively say that's not a tomato?
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Philip Mamalakis:She raised them by giving them a taste of what a tomato tastes like. Parenting is about giving our kids a taste of what's true, of real love, of respect, with true faith in the church so that they've tasted it. It's what we're created for. Right. It tastes good.
Philip Mamalakis:So when we go out into the world and see stuff that's different, we we sense that that's... There's something up
Michelle Moujaes:off. Right.
Philip Mamalakis:And I don't want anything to do with that. So that's why trying to protect our kids from, I think, bad tomatoes or, like, don't let them see bad stuff. It's not as good as giving them a taste of what's true, which means raising our family within the life of the church like we talked about. And what we wanna talk about today is separating our struggle from our child and giving them a taste of, alright. I respect you enough that even though this is really difficult for me and you're whining or you're lonely, I'm gonna check-in with you.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Philip Mamalakis:I'm gonna I'm gonna try and help you name what you're feeling. Mhmm. I'm gonna try and walk with you. Because then they'll get a sense of, oh, that's what love is. Right?
Philip Mamalakis:My my parents actually respect me. Right? And we give them a taste of that so when they go out of the world, they're gonna come back to us.
Michelle Moujaes:But how do you... Tell me about boundaries in the midst of that kind of conversation. Because when I think about my kids being, you know, manipulated by the world into loving the wrong tomatoes, I Right. I do feel an instinct where I wanna keep them kind of, like, enough with the bad tomatoes. Like, let's set some
Philip Mamalakis:There's an instinct to protect. But is that best? What's better might be to have such a good relationship with them that we can ask them, what was that? What did you see? What do you think about what you're seeing?
Philip Mamalakis:Mhmm. Right? That we walk with them. So we have to have boundaries. You say, no.
Philip Mamalakis:You have to be in by a certain time. You need to tell me who you're with. Mhmm. Right? But remember, the older they get, the less we can control them and the less that controlling them actually helps them.
Philip Mamalakis:Yeah. So they still... Even in the high school, they need some sort of boundaries, but they really should be living their own lives. So we move more from telling them what to do and controlling them toward asking them questions and accompanying them. So they know they have a parent that when I come home...
Philip Mamalakis:When when the child comes home, I'm gonna have a mom who's not interrogating me, but she's actually curious. So how did it go? Where did you go? What did you see? Mhmm.
Philip Mamalakis:And is there anything you saw that alarmed you? Right? Because our kids will come back to us if we have that relationship and say something really... I'm really troubled by something. They may not use those words, but we wanna have the type of relationship where if they're not doing well, they come to us first.
Philip Mamalakis:That is the protective factor. So boundaries are a part of it, but we wanna focus on that parent child relationship so we are the first person they think. If they go out in the world, they don't feel safe, they feel scared, they need help, they're gonna call us first. And that continues on until young adulthood.
Michelle Moujaes:So here's a question we get asked about a lot when we talk about kind of this digital tsunami that comes after young people. And so parents always ask, what can my kid watch? What apps are okay? Like, what specific thing is supposed to be that boundary? Isn't there a place for not introducing them to the whole of the world?
Philip Mamalakis:Clearly.
Michelle Moujaes:Right? Tell me a little bit about what that would look like.
Philip Mamalakis:If you've got a... If you have a 70 year old child, they're gonna quickly be able to get access. So number one, when we set limits to our kids
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Philip Mamalakis:Especially when they're entering this world of technology, I don't think a rule is enough.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Philip Mamalakis:Just saying no is like, what? Because they're gonna wanna find out for themselves. Remember, they need to taste the tomato. Right? They need to experience it.
Philip Mamalakis:So just saying you may not do this, it's really a good question to say, why not? And so we wanna come up with a good answers for what is wrong with technology. And so we have conversations in our home, and I help parents have conversations. Say, well, number one, it's distracting. It's really hard to focus and have a human interaction if you're checked out.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Philip Mamalakis:And so technology, screens, social media, video games. Right?
Michelle Moujaes:The
Philip Mamalakis:first thing is even if it's candy crush or whatever, something that's nonviolent, it's still a temptation to distract. So if we're gonna help our kids prepare, our goal is not to keep them off candy. Crush. Yeah. Crush.
Philip Mamalakis:Our goal is when they go to college, they know how to keep themselves off candy crush or to use it appropriately. And that's by conversation to name. It is a temptation. I'd much rather play video games than go and sit and talk with people. And to help them identify that.
Philip Mamalakis:Remember, this is their struggle now is to learn how to use technology properly. And our role is to help them, equip them for that struggle. Mhmm. Our struggle is we hate all technology. We're scared.
Philip Mamalakis:We think it's ridiculous. We think the world is coming to an end, but that's our struggle. So we need to do something with our struggle, which is kind of take a deep breath, and in the moment, put it aside. Okay. And then learn how can I approach my child and say, tell me what you're thinking?
Philip Mamalakis:What do they think is an appropriate use of technology? Right? That we have this conversation, and then we say, here are the house rules. You may not be on tech during dinner. You limit the amount of time.
Philip Mamalakis:Just technology. And then the second part, I think, is what are you watching?
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Philip Mamalakis:Because we don't want our kids to think, in my house, I'm gonna control what you watch. But then when you're an adult, you can watch whatever you want. Was that really the mark of an adult?
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Philip Mamalakis:Us as adults, do we really watch whatever we want? A mark of an adult for us as Orthodox Christians is we monitor what we watch. We actually are really intentional. I will not watch that because we... I don't...
Philip Mamalakis:I may have the freedom, the choice as an adult, but to be an adult It's not
Michelle Moujaes:who we are. Right.
Philip Mamalakis:Is to know that this is poison. And I'm not gonna poison my soul by allowing violent or sexual or sinful images to enter in. Am I old enough? Yeah. I'm old enough to say no to that.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Philip Mamalakis:And that flies in the face of the of the world where, you know, an adult bookstore is where people go to act like children, really.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, that's good.
Philip Mamalakis:And I try and teach my kids. I don't wanna say when you're old enough, you can do that. No. When you're old enough, you'll know for yourself, no. I'm gonna turn away from that.
Michelle Moujaes:So, Philip, how does that kind of play out? I I think of all the younger parents that ask questions about kind of intentionality, and do we have, like, a plan? I know when my husband and I were raising our kids when they were young, it was pretty much trial by fire. We'd be like, oh, we gotta do something about that. Oh, and eventually, we got intentional about some things.
Michelle Moujaes:But when you're thinking about, like you just said, don't watch that. You know, is it helpful for parents to kinda think through? These are things that aren't really, you know, god glorifying that we don't wanna bring into our home. So these images of... Like, can you kinda predecide that stuff?
Philip Mamalakis:So in our family, it was trial by fire and also trial by failure. Like, oh, man. We gotta... This is now something bad has happened, and we're kinda trying to get back where we maybe should have been.
Michelle Moujaes:Right. Right. Right. Right.
Philip Mamalakis:Right. It's a lot of mistakes. It's a lot of realizing, well, we let that go. If I could do it differently, I'd do it differently.
Michelle Moujaes:Turn it off. Turn it off. Right. Please turn it off. And I realized, you see
Philip Mamalakis:how failure is kind of part of the process? And the last thing we want is a church that says you should do it different. You should do it better. It's like, wait a minute. I'm underwater doing the best I can.
Philip Mamalakis:So in that spirit, it's great if you can talk to other parents and see what what are the things... What are the guidelines you do? And it's really appropriate to, in the way we talk ourselves as adults because they'll learn. If we're violent and we're swearing and we're judging people privately as parents, you know, the Trickle down.
Michelle Moujaes:It
Philip Mamalakis:happens. That's gonna be the worst thing. So we wanna conduct ourselves in a way that teaches our children this is what's true, good, and beautiful.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. So what I'm hearing is if we wanna separate our struggle from their struggles, first of all, it's desirable to separate our struggle from their struggle.
Philip Mamalakis:Help our children. We need to learn to separate our struggle and respect it. It is hard for us. Right. We're not supposed to say, oh, it's not supposed to be hard.
Philip Mamalakis:Recognize our struggle as separate than our child's and then learn how to respond to your child's struggle.
Michelle Moujaes:Right. Okay. I love that. So we get community to come around us. We walk with our spouse, our friends, our pastor, you know, our spiritual father, whoever it is, to help us kind of navigate our own struggle so that we can be in a solid place to focus on the needs of our child to help them navigate their struggle.
Philip Mamalakis:And think about what we're teaching them with that. We're teaching them to be an adult, to have a community around you who's helping you learn and grow Mhmm. Which is exactly what we wanna teach them. If they're on the spectrum or if they're lonely or whatever they're struggling with, you have... You wanna have a community around you.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm. To
Philip Mamalakis:be an adult is to have a community around you. Mhmm. Right? Because we're not here to solve all your problems. We're here to prepare you to respond with life difficulty.
Philip Mamalakis:And so number one, by modeling. And then number two, by responding to them in a way that's best for them, which has to do with checking in with them. Mhmm. Asking them what they think, listening to them. And we'll talk in a further episode about, you know, their feelings and their thoughts.
Philip Mamalakis:But for today, it's really important to focus on the child. We have to first, you know, separate our struggle and respect our struggle because we're not really supposed to be superhuman. Like, to me, one of the things I just was the worst as a dad is, you know, we get the dinner table. You're finally set. I finally sit down, and then someone knocks over the milk.
Philip Mamalakis:Mhmm. You know? And sometimes I'm like, it'll dry up eventually. I I just don't wanna get up. It's just exhausting.
Philip Mamalakis:That need... I think we should respect our limits. We're not supposed to be saints. We're supposed to become saints. So we have a rule in our home.
Philip Mamalakis:Only pour as much milk in the cup as you wanna clean up.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, I like it.
Philip Mamalakis:Because I... Why should I get mad at a child who's learning, you know, fine motor skills? But, also, I wanna respect my struggle. This is hard for me. If it's too loud in your home, it is really respectful to respect your struggle and say, it is too loud for mom in this house.
Philip Mamalakis:Everyone needs to keep your voices down. Mhmm. That is really legitimate. We're not supposed to be martyrs and... No.
Philip Mamalakis:We're supposed to teach our kids respect. Mhmm. Part of that community. Respecting the struggle we have. There are certain things that are not permitted just because it's not okay with me.
Philip Mamalakis:Certain video games, certain violence, certain movies, it is entirely appropriate to respect yourself as a parent and say, no. Not in my house.
Michelle Moujaes:Yep.
Philip Mamalakis:I don't need I don't need a a bigger reason than that. So I know, you know, volume. No yelling in this house. Language. Movies.
Philip Mamalakis:Images. Conversations. I cannot hear this type of conversation in my house. We respect our struggle. And for me, I don't wanna get up, so we are not pouring
Michelle Moujaes:more milk.
Philip Mamalakis:Because we don't wanna think we're supposed to always be sacrificing ourselves beyond our ability. Mhmm. We're called to offer ourselves to the best of our ability.
Michelle Moujaes:Nice.
Philip Mamalakis:And if that best is, this is too hard for me, we're just pouring a little milk in the
Michelle Moujaes:I love it. Alright. Let's look at some of the questions that we got from some of our listeners. What do we say when our teenagers don't wanna go to church and they push back using arguments of free will? My son even quotes our priest saying, people should never be forced to go to church.
Michelle Moujaes:What do I do then?
Philip Mamalakis:Great question. Number one, if that child is referencing the priest, we might send him to the priest or go talk to
Michelle Moujaes:the priest's house. That's right.
Philip Mamalakis:Number two, we force our kids to go to school, don't we? Yeah. And what what if our kid woke up on a Monday and say, you know, I just don't feel like you should force me to go to school. I'd like to sleep in.
Michelle Moujaes:Free will.
Philip Mamalakis:Right. Free will. And, know, if you force me, I'm just gonna reject it when I grow up. Like, you're gonna reject education when you grow up. Like, how come they don't do that?
Philip Mamalakis:The other thing is we we force our kids not to steal and not to lie. And what our kids say? I have free will. I can steal. And if you force me not to steal, if you make me return this thing or if you force me to not to lie, when I grow up, I'm just gonna reject it.
Philip Mamalakis:I'm gonna go steal. Yeah. We... And I would have that answer because that doesn't make sense. There are some things that are real and true that are simply nonnegotiable.
Michelle Moujaes:That's just what we do.
Philip Mamalakis:It is not okay when you... We don't tell our kids, well, when you go to college, you can steal as much as you want. No. It's the opposite.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Philip Mamalakis:Or when you go to college, you don't have to think anymore. No. There are certain things that are central to our identities to what's true and good. Stealing, lying, learning and thinking, and church.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Philip Mamalakis:That for many people, church is this extra thing like, you know, joining a soccer team or having a specific vocation. We wanna teach our kids that, oh, no. This reality of God's presence in our life is a reality of God's presence in our life, and it's mandatory just like school and just like not stealing. And when you leave, you know, that's fine. But remember, if we're not listening to our child, if we're not respecting them, if the only time we talk to them is we're telling them what to do Right.
Philip Mamalakis:And we're constantly forcing them. And church is just another thing that doesn't mean anything to them, and we're forcing them to go. That's not giving them a taste of what's true.
Michelle Moujaes:Right. Right.
Philip Mamalakis:And so it's... This this question is a time also to reflect. Do I ever spend, you know, time with my child where I'm not telling them what to do?
Michelle Moujaes:That's a big one.
Philip Mamalakis:Right? Do I... Does my child have a sense that I actually care about them and take an interest in them? Yeah. Do my parents...
Philip Mamalakis:Are they more concerned about how I behave than who I am and what I'm struggling with? So forcing kids to go to church find its place in the home and in a parent child relationship with the things that we've been talking about. Right? Thinking long term, not freaking out when they make a mistake. Right.
Philip Mamalakis:Right? Separating your struggle from theirs and learning to check-in with them, then it makes sense that church is mandatory.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. I love that. My mom used to say it this way to us. Honey, if you want your kids to love the church, you gotta take them there.
Michelle Moujaes:And it really did resonate. I would say for my brother and myself, we both take our kids to church because it's just what our family does. Do you know father Lawrence Farley? Yes. Amen.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. So father Lawrence Farley told me one time, he's an OCA priest in... He's in Vancouver, British Columbia. Right. So he said he used to sit by his children's bed every night and say, we are called to something different.
Michelle Moujaes:This family is called to something different. And kinda just set the stage, which is there wasn't a lot of opinion on whether or not you wanted to go. This is what we do. This is our family. You know, we stand up when an elder or a priest walks into the room.
Michelle Moujaes:That's what we do.
Philip Mamalakis:I see us as parents living that in our lives? Yeah. Because, again, if if we're not living the church in our home, then it's also confusing. But when we live the church in our home by the way we treat each other, by asking for vigorance, by praying before a meal Right. By having our icon, by learn...
Philip Mamalakis:Bringing the hymn. Right? If it's connected to daily life, kids will internalize it as real.
Michelle Moujaes:Love
Philip Mamalakis:it. Rather than... This is... It's something foreign that we Yeah. Have to go to
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah.
Philip Mamalakis:Every... Once a week.
Michelle Moujaes:Yep. Okay. Let's look here. Morgan writes in and says, I have two kids aged nine and six. I wanna raise my kids in the faith, but my husband is not on the same page.
Michelle Moujaes:Our kids split time between two churches with very different belief systems. What can I do without stepping on his toes to help my kids be grounded in the Orthodox faith? Is there anything? Yes. A good question, Morgan.
Philip Mamalakis:It's a great question. Give them real tomatoes. This is this image of the tomato. Let them encounter love in your home. Right?
Philip Mamalakis:Let them see you living this life of learning and repentance and growth, and learn how to respond to them, how to listen to them, they will encounter something. Right? And when they're with you, you bring them to the church. Mhmm. Right?
Philip Mamalakis:Because our goal is not to make people Orthodox. God didn't say the greatest commandment is make people Orthodox. He said the greatest commandment is to love God and love your neighbor.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Philip Mamalakis:And in some case... In cases like this, we recognize that my role as a mom is to love these kids. And the more I focus on, what's it like for them to have two different churches? I think it's an act of love to say, is it confusing to What's it like? I'm not here to convince you to grow up into my church.
Philip Mamalakis:I love you enough to say, what's it like to be in two different churches? That witness of love is the is the real tomato. They'll get a sense that, oh, you care more about who I am, what I'm struggling with, what what are my difficulties than about getting me to do something you want. Mhmm. That's Orthodoxy.
Philip Mamalakis:That is love. I I have no agenda but to walk with you through your struggles. And as a parent, I'm living this path, and I'm witnessing this path by walking with you and helping in your struggles. And I think the kids will taste something different. Because the Orthodox Church, it's not in our nature to manipulate people to come, to force people to, you know, to come, to shame people into coming.
Philip Mamalakis:It's in our nature to listen and to love.
Michelle Moujaes:And invite.
Philip Mamalakis:To... And invite and to walk with them and actually ease their burden. You Do know how many stories we have of saints? Christ healed the 10 lepers. Only one came back.
Philip Mamalakis:It was a free gift. We have countless stories of saints who who heal and perform miracles on non Christians.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Philip Mamalakis:Like, Muslims will come to these saints, they'll heal them, and then they'll go away. That's the nature of the gospel, that it's free. And so in in situations like that, you might think, oh my gosh. I... They...
Philip Mamalakis:I can't make my family look like an Orthodox family. No. I can always love like an Orthodox.
Michelle Moujaes:And I think there's a remarkable call for us as parents in any of those situations, but certainly when you really don't have control to be prayerful and praying parents for our children.
Philip Mamalakis:Exactly. You know, we try and do everything possible, and then when there's nothing left, we turn to prayer.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Philip Mamalakis:When in fact prayer is the most effective tool. Yeah. And it's the tool we're invited to use first.
Michelle Moujaes:Step one. I agree.
Philip Mamalakis:Step one. And so in this case, we we have to remind ourselves that God loves our children more than we do. Mhmm. Our goal is to love them, to pray for them, and give them a taste of what's true and allow the holy spirit to walk with them as we live our lives connected to the church, connected to the life.
Michelle Moujaes:Love it. Thank you. Great wisdom as always. Now you made me want a salad, and some good organic tomatoes.
Philip Mamalakis:Some oil massaged kale. I highly recommend it.
Michelle Moujaes:She gets the award.
Philip Mamalakis:I know. I thought... I told her, and she was so happy that I I called her on. I said this Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:That's a great analogy.
Philip Mamalakis:And I appreciated it too.
Michelle Moujaes:I do love it. My kids get salad from a bag sometimes. Alright. Thanks to you for joining us for this episode of Orthodox Christian Parenting. We're here to help you raise children who know Christ, love him, and spend their lives trying to be like him.
Michelle Moujaes:And, hey, listen. If today's episode blessed you, would you consider doing us a favor? Leave a review or share this episode with a friend, and here's why. When you do that, it helps more families like yours find this show. And one last thing, if you wanna go deeper, download this week's free discussion guide in the show notes, or you can find it at faithtree.org/parenting.
Michelle Moujaes:This guide is just a free gift for you and your family, and it's a really great opportunity for you to think more deeply about what we talked about today with your spouse, with your friends, or your community at church, so make sure you check it out. And guys, we will see you next time, God willing.