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TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays from 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with full episodes posted to Spotify immediately after airing.
Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” TBPN has interviewed Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. Diet TBPN delivers the best moments from each episode in under 30 minutes.
Over the weekend, you you watched this live. Right? Elon Musk, the CEO of Tesla, the CEO of SpaceX, got some folks together, gave a big keynote presentation about his vision for the future.
Speaker 2:Basically, something that looked like an It
Speaker 1:did look like an And so you watched this, right?
Speaker 2:I did watch it.
Speaker 1:I watched a little bit of it. And overall
Speaker 2:And if you were taking a shot every time Elon said epic, you were Hammered by the not in any state to drive after about three minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He's got so much going on at this point. I mean, he's doing sports cars, cyber trucks, Model three, Model y, just consumer cars
Speaker 2:Model y x l.
Speaker 1:Space Internet, space data centers, space launch capacity, point to point. He's gonna take us from one on a rocket from New York to Tokyo in an hour, thirty minutes. Neuralink brain chips, tunnels. These Elon projects have just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger. Of course, he owns X and Twitter, XAI training foundation models, trying to make a consumer app.
Speaker 1:We chat with it as well as, you know, solve math and physics.
Speaker 2:Yeah. This was super rough.
Speaker 1:It was I I listened to it, and it was a rough delivery. Like, he seemed like Yeah. He seemed a little, like, just like, woah. Okay. Got another thing to present.
Speaker 1:And so the cadence wasn't quite there, and he wasn't able to get the crowd going.
Speaker 2:There was
Speaker 1:a lot of, like, waiting a little bit for the audience to, like, realize that was a flawless line.
Speaker 2:Key disclaimer. Never bet against Elon. True. I'm not dumb enough to bet against Elon. Yes.
Speaker 2:I'm not dumb enough to try to short any of his company. Yes. For sure. By now, you should have learned not to doubt
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What his organizations can do. Yeah. And even though this TerraFab concept, you know, there's a lot of reasons that you would wanna bet against it. Yep. I don't know that many people that are genuinely sold on on the space data centers in the near term is not clocking for me Sure.
Speaker 2:John?
Speaker 1:I'm a dad. I'm a husband. You're not getting it. It's not clocking to you. It's not clocking to you that I'm standing on business, is it?
Speaker 1:It's not clocking to me that he's standing on business? It's not clocking. He's standing on business and you're it's not clocking for
Speaker 2:me that he's standing
Speaker 1:He's standing on
Speaker 2:on space data centers seemingly the first time he's put the the Tesla XAI SpaceX logos together. Sure. No.
Speaker 1:The tunnel project, Hyperloop, was a blog post that he wrote and it appeared both on the Tesla blog and the SpaceX blog at the same time. And everyone was like, who's gonna be involved in this? And it turned out it was like a couple people from both sides. It became its own company
Speaker 2:I'm at some not saying it's
Speaker 1:the No. First No. But it does feel like Elon Megacorp.
Speaker 2:Gearing gearing up for the Elon Megacorp. And, yeah. So so just overall, the pitch is he's basically saying like, okay, we're gonna do TeraFab.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:It's this really hard project. And the evidence for why you should believe that it's gonna work well
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Because he's like, we've done a lot of hard things in the past. Yeah. Talks a little bit about space data centers. Mhmm. And then he talks about needing something in the order of a thousand times more compute than
Speaker 1:He says to reach a petawatt, we'll build an electromagnetic mass driver on the moon with robots like Optimus and humans.
Speaker 2:No. But but but before the mass driver
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He's talking about how Oh, we're chip constrained, which is true. Elon chip chip constrained by a thousand x. Sure. And so we have to do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We have to build a fab capacity.
Speaker 2:He doesn't he doesn't lay out, like, a super compelling case of what all the chips will be used for. Right? Is it are they gonna be is SpaceX gonna be a Neo Cloud? Is it just for their own internal products like, you know, self driving, humanoids? Again again, my criticism is not of any individual company as much as the presentation I just came away.
Speaker 2:He he kept saying like, if we can do this, it's gonna be epic.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it and and It wasn't a there wasn't justification I there wasn't a strong justification
Speaker 1:I see.
Speaker 2:Other than it's gonna be epic. Yeah. And then he just closes out with this render of the masked driver which is again, it's tight.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I didn't I didn't what was the takeaway on like what we're even gonna use the masked driver for other than to get to a Kardashev three civilization, which again, all this stuff just feels so so so
Speaker 1:So far in the future.
Speaker 2:Far out. He did drop the line turning science fiction into science sci Science facts? Science facts.
Speaker 1:No way.
Speaker 2:Which is I think
Speaker 1:It's a Josh Wolfe line.
Speaker 2:And it's funny because Josh Wolfe was like the hardest critic of Elon.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right. Yeah. That's right.
Speaker 2:Like he basically had to stop at some point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:But yeah, he kept saying these lines that he was like expecting like kind of laughter Yeah.
Speaker 1:It it was really hard. I mean, doing like like like the actual delivery of a speech on stage. I mean, Jensen just went through this with a keynote at GTC where he didn't have a teleprompter and he was able to deliver moments and get the crowd going. And the crowd size at GTC is really big. And so even if you just have a couple hardcore fans that really get you and have listened to every Jensen keynote You'll get it.
Speaker 1:They know. Yeah. They start clapping, and then everyone starts clapping because it's infectious. And then pretty soon, everyone's clapping. This is how it works.
Speaker 1:So yeah. Yeah. I mean, the comedic timing, the delivery timing of, like, when to clap, when to be woah. That was a little tough. I don't know I actually know who was in the audience.
Speaker 1:It might have just been employees. It has a certain aesthetic to it. Interestingly, about the TeraFab, this is something I was advocating for back in 2022. So when the Biden Chips Act happened, there was this question about, like, what's gonna happen with Intel? Intel should be at the, like, the center of the Chips Act because the whole pitch for the Chips Act was that America is not on the leading edge of semiconductor fabrication.
Speaker 1:And so we need to sort of pull our weight with our intellectual property laws to stop Taiwan from exporting them. Remember, Taiwan is its own country. They should, in theory, be able to sell their products anywhere. What say do we have over you know, if if Japan wants to sell PlayStations to China or anywhere, why do we have authority over them? Well, comes down to the intellectual property.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of patents that have been licensed to ASML, to TSMC. And so we do have the ability to pull levers and strings to sort of limit those, especially if they're packaged by NVIDIA, an American company. We have export rules, but it's a stretch. But the whole thesis was America is going lose to China unless we do this. And so Intel was a very logical one.
Speaker 1:And I remember there was like $60,000,000,000 or something up for grabs around the CHIPS Act. At the same time, Elon was marshaling around 60,000,000,000 for to buy out Twitter, something like that, 40 something billion. And then, Intel's market cap, what they're a $220,000,000,000 company now. Think that they were lower back in 2022.
Speaker 2:I think it makes total sense for Elon to make chips. Yep. I think I think it will make sense over time for x AI to start offering cloud services to other companies. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Having compute is valuable.
Speaker 2:But but still, it this seems like a Mhmm. Just kind of a blatant Mhmm. Sci fi Mhmm. Pump going into the IPO.
Speaker 1:Maybe. I will take the other side of that. The other side of this is that it is good to have a long term vision, even if it is decades away. And that's what mass driver on the moon is. It's not going to be realized this quarter.
Speaker 1:It's not going to be realized this year. Probably not even this decade. Elon, interestingly, didn't really put a date on it. Did he say something specific?
Speaker 3:He said, I hope to see it in my lifetime.
Speaker 1:Yeah. In his
Speaker 3:Like, I mean, he's 54. He's got a while. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I if he's a radical life extension guy, he could be like three hundred years from now. Who knows? That's a very vague timeline. Whereas in the past, with Point to Point, with Roadster, with Cybertruck, with Space Data Centers, all the other Elon pitches have been very focused on, We think we can do this in five years.
Speaker 1:And he always gets criticized for being Elon Musk, too aggressive. But then history has shown that he overpromises, underdelivers, but he typically does deliver eventually. And if the technology is completely new, no one else was going to build it and he's the first one to build it, it's fine because Starlink works. It was the first LEO constellation for satellite Internet, had it turned into a huge business, wound up being a great technology. And so, now the mass driver's a lot crazier.
Speaker 1:I was, going back and forth with Tyler about this, trying to get him to nail down a prediction. We started with one hundred years. Do you think it's possible to put a mass driver on the moon in the in the next one hundred years? And you said yes. No.
Speaker 1:So the So it's possible.
Speaker 3:Yes. There's all sorts of, like, qualifications. Okay. I think the thing, it was like 300 metric tons.
Speaker 1:Okay. There was an interesting moment last year when everyone sort of like came around to the same AGI predictions or the same superintelligence predictions saying eight, ten years, George Hotts, Dora Kesh, Karpathy, Sam Altman. There were a number of people that were all saying in various words, like Sam said, few thousand days. Dwarkash had this probability distribution that said two thousand and thirty two. And so everyone was sort of in the seven to ten year range.
Speaker 1:And it was just this interesting moment in the AI industry at least where everyone had a clear definition of like what superintelligence would be. Simultaneously, everyone was like, yeah, it's not this year. It's more like ten. But there's way like we are so far away from consensus around mass driver timelines. I thought it'd be interesting to start developing thought process around what is a mass driver, what does success look like and what are reasonable timelines here.
Speaker 1:We have to define what a mass driver actually is. In simple terms, it's an electromagnetic launch system fixed on the lunar surface that converts energy. So you put down some solar panels. You you take energy. That's the electromagnetic.
Speaker 1:So you're not putting up fuel. And then because that's extra cost, you once you're there, you can just repeatedly get sunlight, turn that into energy, and it's going to successfully accelerate a payload to lunar escape velocity, which is one fifth of Earth's escape velocity. You've got to be going 5,000 miles an hour to escape the moon's gravity well. You have to be going 25,000 miles per hour to escape Earth's. So from an efficiency and energy efficiency standpoint, it's much better to leave from the moon than to leave from Earth.
Speaker 1:So then the payload needs to go somewhere useful. Like, you make this thing. In this video, he's talking about making satellites on the moon. That's even farther away. But those have to go somewhere.
Speaker 1:So you can't just launch them into deep space. I mean, you that's where you're going. Usually, you would go to a lunar orbit or an Earth orbit or some point in between the moon and Earth.
Speaker 2:Gabe says, what is this mass driver you speak of SpaceX is getting in the supplements game?
Speaker 1:That's a great name
Speaker 2:for us. They should make it
Speaker 1:They've done the Tesla tequila.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. They should make a a mass gainer
Speaker 1:Mass that they
Speaker 2:release now and say, hey, if you buy this, you'll get priority access to the mass driver on the moon.
Speaker 1:I like this. I like this a lot. I would definitely be a daily driver of the mass driver. And so, yeah, there's this question of, like, you set up this thing. It's going to take forever, be really expensive.
Speaker 1:What are you actually pushing into space? You probably start with basic materials. So rock, literally rocks, metal, oxygen, water, a lot of useful space
Speaker 2:What if the asteroids that we get into our atmosphere Yep. Or just an advanced civilization somewhere else just
Speaker 1:hurling? Mass
Speaker 2:Mass driving.
Speaker 1:I saw I saw
Speaker 2:We're we're hilarious downrange, guys. Relax.
Speaker 1:I I saw a hilarious take that the first UFO that will arrive on Earth will just be a car guy from another galaxy who like got into building a crazy, you know, supercar effectively.
Speaker 2:Taking it out
Speaker 1:on And someone's like, you can't get to Earth in that thing. That's too modded. That's too crazy. You're going to break down. There's no way.
Speaker 1:And he's like, I'll show you.
Speaker 2:You're going to be too old, but
Speaker 1:I'll I've show modded this thing. You can also potentially get propellant from the moon. If you can extract water from, from ice, from the moon, especially near the poles, that water can support people because you can drink it. Here are the four conditions I think need to be met in order to say, yes. We have a working mass driver on the moon.
Speaker 1:This is how I'd formulate this bet with Tyler Cosgrove over there. One, you need a permanently installed electromagnetic launcher, and it has to be on the lunar surface. This should be obvious. Two, it has to launch at least 300 metric tons over a twelve month period. This means it's driving significant mass, not just test payloads.
Speaker 1:Let's aim for 95% mission success and at least 200 launches per year. Failures are going to happen, but we want to get this reliable and at commercial scale, and that means that it can't be breaking down all the time. Lastly, the mass launched from the moon has to actually be put to use. You can't just have this demo unit that's just blasting rocks into the sun. It's got to go to something useful.
Speaker 1:And that could just be water that's going somewhere else or or, you know, rocks that are going somewhere else. But it needs to be like, we're catching them somewhere. There's a reason that it's going there. Once all the all four of those conditions are met, it will be hard to argue that we're in some sort demo phase or publicity stunt. How long will this take?
Speaker 1:My You
Speaker 2:should put the goalposts on the Mask The way that you keep moving them
Speaker 1:is Okay. I'm moving the goalposts on it? I put the over under at fifteen to twenty years, which is about as aggressive as I could get. I think Tyler's gonna take the other side of this.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm gonna take the over.
Speaker 1:You're take you're gonna take over twenty.
Speaker 3:Fifteen years is, I think, kind of crazy.
Speaker 1:Fifteen years is a blink of an eye.
Speaker 2:I think I have a bit more AGI pill than you, Tyler.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, let's go through the six Just
Speaker 2:say just say you lost faith.
Speaker 1:The six steps. Six steps. Okay. So first off, we got to get to the moon. We can't really get to the moon right now.
Speaker 1:We're we're like we're pretty close with, like, really small payloads. We need reliable heavy lunar launch capacity, and that's gonna take some time. So Starship needs to be refueling in orbit, landing on the moon with and without crews because you're probably gonna need some humans up there, some robots. And we need to start routine cargo flights to the moon. So this is straight up like three to five years away, like minimum.
Speaker 1:Then you you need to build the power infrastructure. So that's another couple of years. Because once you're actually going up and back, have to put down a bunch of solar panels, store it in batteries, and then the batteries need to be able to deliver a lot of power all of a sudden. Now this is what the Tesla does. Right?
Speaker 1:Robotic construction capacity, you've got to get autonomous construction rovers at least up and running to lay the electromagnetic track. Then you actually have to build the mass driver on Earth. The good news is that once you build it once you built it, like, the benefits are really good. Like, you don't have an atmosphere. There's no drag, no weather, no air resistance.
Speaker 1:And, of course, gravity is a lot less. So you still need a plan for where the mass goes after it's driven. You got to catch it, kind of. And that's a whole another problem. But and and when you add all these projects up, you start easily getting into the decades.
Speaker 1:I mean, you think about this in, like, the most grand project you can imagine, which is like the Dyson sphere, basically Solar panels directly around the sun, all the way around the sun to capture all of its energy. You're gonna need to send a lot of solar panels to the sun. Making those on the moon is lower cost potentially than making them on Earth. That's the theory.
Speaker 2:I'm seeing a tourism angle when the mass driver is pointed back at the Earth to like bob bobsled type thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. A
Speaker 2:little pod to be launched at the Earth.
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 2:And then you kind of break through the atmosphere and then you parachute. Yeah. That could be good for like gender reveal birthday parties, you
Speaker 1:know? Potentially.
Speaker 2:Yes. This needs an Elon esque figure to accomplish. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm thinking more in that fifty fifty year.
Speaker 1:Over 50 or under 50? We gave Tyler exactly.
Speaker 3:I I changed I'm going 30.
Speaker 1:30? Woah. Woah.
Speaker 2:What changed? What changed?
Speaker 3:Was just like, AGI is, like, basically here. There's no way it's gonna take that long.
Speaker 1:There we go. You know? There we go.
Speaker 3:It's like everything will be so cheap. Okay.
Speaker 1:So you want
Speaker 2:you want I mean, I was thinking five years.
Speaker 1:Five years.
Speaker 2:Head over to suspended cap. Okay. What do they say? Are they bullish on is suspended cap bullish on the presentation?
Speaker 1:TeraFab suspended cap says TeraFab is a blatant pump. It actually disgusts me. There will never be leading edge chips from them. There will never be data centers in space. It's such a blatant effort to IPO SpaceX on the back of some pie in the sky BS and then merge with Tesla, do humongous rays, keep, blah blah blah blah blah for five years.
Speaker 1:Not a fan. Diesel. Sis Reddy Caps of Diesel. There was an obituary in The Wall Street Journal for David Simon. He was a mall king who was both feared and admired.
Speaker 1:He was had ruthless negotiation tactics, an obsession with details, the sheer force of will that turned his family's real estate business into the largest mall owner in the country. He passed away on Sunday after a cancer diagnosis in 2024. He was 64 years old. During his more than three his more than three decades as Simon Property Group's chief executive, the inveterate dealmaker gobbled up competitors and defied critics who said malls were obsolete. Over a decades long buying spree, he cobbled together an empire that spanned 250 properties and 2,000 or 206,000,000 square feet, giving Simon control of more retail space than anyone in the world.
Speaker 1:His success helped propel the family to the wealthiest echelons with an estimated net worth of 11,600,000,000.0, ranking number 38 on Forbes Magazine's list of the richest American families. At a time when malls were failing and retailers were filing bankruptcy, Simon invested in his properties, beefed up their luxury offerings and added non shopping tenants such as high end fitness centers, high-tech mini golf courses and upscale residents. I feel like that has been the secret to success with the modern mall. There's a lot of malls that have sort of mid tier or low end retailers where it is actually pretty comparable to shopping online. You go in, there's no one that's really gonna talk to you, the stuff's just there, it might be on the floor, it's messy.
Speaker 1:But then there are certain malls that have leaned into the higher end experience and, oh, would you like a drink? Like, let's talk about what you're thinking. Let's show you all this stuff. Try this on. And it's much more it's just in a completely different tier than e commerce shopping.
Speaker 1:And so I feel like those properties and those chains have done very well. Along with partners, he snapped up ailing retailers, including Aeropostale, Nautica, Eddie Bauer, JCPenney, Forever twenty one, Lucky Brand and Brooks Brothers. The arrangement propped up the chains, prevented large vacancies in Simon malls and turned out to be moneymakers for the company. Effective Monday, Simon board Simon's board appointed Eli Simon, one of David Simon's five children, as its CEO and president. The Mall King was both feared and admired and could be both charming and terrifying.
Speaker 1:Simon unleashed a tirade at Coach executive Todd Kahn during their first meeting in the decade of the 2000s after the handbag maker tried to renege on deals to open stores in Simon malls. There was no shortage of profanity, Khan said. The two came to an agreement and became friends. Nothing like a screaming match to kick off a lifelong friendship. David's word was You his could have bang out meetings, but if you came to a resolution and you shook hands, it was golden.
Speaker 1:That's a good way of doing business.
Speaker 2:Well, RIP to the mall king.
Speaker 1:OpenAI is offering private equity firms a guaranteed minimum return of 17.5% as well as early access to models not yet in public release. There was a lot of chatter on the timeline going back and forth like, is this some sort of weird guarantee? Is this not normal for private equity dealing? Market participant had
Speaker 2:a breakdown Broke it all down.
Speaker 1:To take you through it. So why don't you read through some of this?
Speaker 2:Many are saying OpenAI's $10,000,000,000 private equity joint venture is giving a desperate feeling. A lot of people were throwing up the red flag emoji saying vendor financing dressed up as venture capital guaranteed returns. It smelled like a Ponzi. A company burning 14,000,000,000 this year, buying distribution it can't earn organically. I'd push back.
Speaker 2:TBPN, Capital, Advent, and Brookfield put up 4,000,000,000. They get preferred equity with a 17 and a half minimum return, board seats, and early access to OpenAI's newest model. OpenAI gets instant distribution into hundreds of portfolio companies. No traditional enterprise sales cycles. No selling company by company.
Speaker 2:The part people are missing, a huge number of software companies are privately held. Tomo Bravo alone owns 75 software companies generating 30,000,000,000 of annual revenue. PE firms collectively did 1,800,000,000,000.0 in buyouts last year. These companies are shifting to heavy token consumption. AWS knows this.
Speaker 2:They run a dedicated PE sales function.
Speaker 1:Talk about a dream job. That I would feel for that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You love private equity. Yes. Hard to imagine. Anyway.
Speaker 2:Anything better. Sorry. Advisory programs, transformation consultants, the whole apparatus. Azure and GCP do the same. OpenAI is running the cloud distribution playbook.
Speaker 2:Wholesale tokens to PE portfolios at scale. The difference is exclusivity. AWS doesn't ask PE firms to put up 4,000,000,000 to take board seats. They give the advisory away. OpenAI is asking for capital commitment, buys preferential access Oh.
Speaker 2:Dedicated forward deployed engineers, and if not, financial incentive for the PE firm to actually push adoption across its portfolio. A PE firm that invested 4,000,000,000 in this JV isn't running a parallel RFP with Anthropic. That's the point. The 17 and a half percent return looks like a red flag until you look at it closely. It's preferred equity hurdle, not a coupon on debt.
Speaker 2:This is the main Yeah. Hundreds of posts I saw are missing. Priority on returns before common shareholders. So it's preferred equity Yep. Plus a return on top of that.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. OpenAI is buying captive distribution channel into enterprises they'd otherwise spend years trying to reach. Anthropic is running a parallel deal with Blackstone, Hellman, Friedman Mhmm. And PerMira. 1,000,000,000 common equity, no guaranteed return.
Speaker 2:More of a Palantir style consulting venture. Both companies doing this simultaneously tells you where enterprise AI is heading. The bear case is real. 95% of a enterprise AI pilots fail to deliver ROI. It's already gone
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's not true anymore. But
Speaker 2:Yeah. That was one study. And again It was every
Speaker 1:agent coding.
Speaker 2:14,000,000,000 in projected losses this year. Profitability not expected until 2021. Nine, all true in OpenAI's enterprise business is already 10,000,000,000 of 25,000,000,000 in revenue. 40% and growing to 50% by year end. The distribution problem is what's left to solve.
Speaker 2:And anyways, goes goes on and on. But yeah, overall, I think like people are taking one data point out of context, of spinning it into something that that looks quite extreme and concerning, when in reality, it's just giving them a preferred return. Financial Times had some reporting Saturday. OpenAI to double workforce as business push intensifies. I love a business push.
Speaker 2:So this is fantastic news. Matt Slotnik says, TBH, the biggest risk to incumbents may be labs absorb all the top talent. Labs already get great engineering talent, but this will spread to product sales, marketing, etcetera. When they become the optimal destination to solve the problems of your customers, it's going to get a Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Basically, you have a big enterprise. Instead of going and doing and trying to figure out like the right SaaS Yeah. Solution for a specific problem, you can go to a lab and get something similar. As part of that workforce push, OpenAI tapped former Meta executive to lead their ad push.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Why is no one talking about Dave Dugan? The Duganator. The Duganator. It's it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Dave Dugan, a former top advertising executive at Meta, is gonna lead sale ad sales. Dugan, who announced earlier this month he was stepping down from his role as vice president of global clients and agencies at Meta, has been named vice president of global ad solutions for OpenAI. He will report to Brad
Speaker 1:Light cap.
Speaker 2:The light capinator. The high profile Hires underscore OpenAI's urgent push to generate new revenue streams to support its enormous funding requirements for its computing needs.
Speaker 1:People were complaining that, like, the advertisers that bought the first ad campaigns on ChatGPT said that the process was low tech and that they haven't received much data showing if their ads worked. Two executives at agencies working with early ChatGPT advertisers said they haven't yet been able to prove the ads have driven any measurable business out from their outcomes for their clients. Eric Suvert over at MobileDebMemo, shared two thoughts on reporting that early ChatGPT ad campaigns lacked performance data. One, this is to be expected. Any early offering will feature limited functionality.
Speaker 1:Early adopters should be prepared to fill measurement gaps themselves with polling or any other sort of pixels or tracking. You should be able to work this together. There's been plenty of times this was the early podcast ads. You'd run a bunch of podcast ads and be like, okay, some people use the coupon code, but a lot of people don't. What multiplier should I apply to that?
Speaker 1:And then you wind up surveying your customer base and being like, wait, we spent 10% of our marketing budget on podcast ads, but 20% of our customers said they found out about us from a podcast, like maybe we should spend more there. Right? Measuring incredibly asserting performance is precisely what ad agencies are paid to do, says Eric Souffert. Says, if an ad agency says it can't provide performance data because the channel doesn't provide it, it is merely a media buying intermediary. If you're an ad agency, you've got to figure out whether or not the ads that you pitch to your clients are actually working.
Speaker 1:Mark Zuckerberg. Big scoop.
Speaker 2:Huge. From Megan over at the journal. Mark Zuckerberg is building a CEO agent to help him do his job. Employees are also adopting AI agents and AI tools internally, namely Myclaw. Myclaw.
Speaker 2:Myclaw. My dude.
Speaker 1:And Secondbrain in a bid to speed up work as they get graded on AI use.
Speaker 2:Tyler, where is our Myclaw and our Secondbrain?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't know. I I'm so interested to know what what Mark'sucker Revenge prompting.
Speaker 2:Hope Revenge says z stack? Yeah. It is z Honestly, Zuck's z stack is like it's like god mode.
Speaker 1:I mean, it does make sense in his position to have a model that's fine tuned on the internal KPIs, the internal org chart, all of this information that's private. And he probably doesn't wanna hand that off to another to another lab that's just gonna maybe look at the data and be like, oh, Okay. So Mark Zuckerberg just asked, how do I poach from all the other labs? But there's got to be so many other questions that he's asking all the time. When you're walking into a meeting with executives, you want to know, well, how is this division performing?
Speaker 1:How much money am I spending on Meta Ray Ban displays? What's the turn rate? Who are our biggest partners? There's a million questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We're joking around, but ZStack does make sense.
Speaker 1:It does make sense.
Speaker 2:You should be able to have god mode.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I mean, this this has the there are companies that are starting to do this where they're they're pitching their agent stacks for CEOs. Boardy is sort of one version of that. Right? But there's more and more people that are like, Okay, we will come in and fine tune something for your organization specifically and maybe do that on the fly.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's just JGPT Enterprise or Anthropic Enterprise or whatever. But Zuck clearly wants something built from the ground up. And it's also a great product demo because if it works really well for him, then the lessons and the learnings from there will probably apply to other people in the ecosystem. So the agent, which is still in development, is currently helping Zuckerberg get information faster, for instance, by retrieving answers for him that he would typically have to go through layers of people to get. Zuckerberg's agent project reflects a drive across the seven 78,000 person company to accelerate the pace of work, eliminate layers from its organizational structure, and change the day to day jobs of its employees to remain competitive with AI native start ups with much smaller staffs.
Speaker 1:The company views AI adoption as critical to the future of success. Zuckerberg has been spending more time coding recently. He previewed some of the efforts of the company's earnings call in January. We are investing in AI native tooling so individuals at Meta can get more done. We're elevating individual contributors and flattening teams, he said.
Speaker 1:If we do this, then I think we're gonna get a lot more done, and I think it'll be a lot more fun. I love that. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. We are now the number two technology show on Spotify. Thank you to everyone who supported us.
Speaker 2:Who's ahead of you?
Speaker 1:Brother, way. All in?
Speaker 2:All in. We will see you
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