Welcome back everyone to 101 questions that church planters ask. I'm one of your hosts, Danny Parmalee. And I'm Chris Highfield. And today, we're gonna be answering the question, what do I do when someone wants to leave my church? So I'm really excited about this episode and partly, because this is one of them that I learned the hard way and made mistakes for actually, I'd probably even say the first five years, on my approach, to kind of answering this question for myself was do everything that you can to try to keep someone at your church.
Speaker 1:And so the short answer, at least for me during that time, was, just use guilt. And, you'd be surprised guilt works really, really well to keep people at your church for a short period of time, and then after that, it kind of, runs out. So, yeah, a a little bit of just even, yeah, background, when we planted, you know, we we talked about this in one of our previous episodes with kind of, like, the covenant thing and having people kind of, commit, to being part of the the church plant. And in my eyes, even though I was warned that people would leave the church even on the launch team, I wasn't ready for it. And so when people started to come to me to either make that decision, whether they called me, emailed me, texted me, or just all of a sudden stopped showing up at things.
Speaker 1:I took it really, really hard, really, really personally. And so I I actually wrote down some things to kinda prep for this, podcast a little bit. And And and my number one thing is you gotta kind of coach yourself first, and, Chris, you can jump in on this a little bit. It's really hard to not take it personally when someone, leaves the church. And so I you know, Chris, I don't know if you have just Yeah.
Speaker 1:Even in your early days of, you know, or even memories of when specific people or couples or families decided to leave the church and how Mhmm. You took it personally whether it was personal or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, people will always say that. Right? They they they'll leave and they'll give you maybe one or two reasons why they're leaving. They're not gonna give you the whole reason.
Speaker 2:Right? There may be a hundred reasons why they're leaving. But the big thing and something I learned early on in planting is, you know, I would go to, like, seminars and hear that you're gonna lose, you know, all of your launch team within eighteen to twenty four months of planting the church. And I thought, dude, you don't know me. I'm really good with people.
Speaker 2:I am, like, I'm I'm a people person. I'm a people pleaser. And I just like you, I kinda had the church background in my previous role as, a student pastor at church. Do whatever you can to please these people and keep them. And it really Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wasn't until we planted that I learned the term out counseling people out of the church. And I'm sure we're gonna cover that here in a bit. But, like, for me Yeah. It was so difficult when people would leave the church. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I took it so extremely personal. And, today, I actually celebrate when people leave. It still may sting a bit. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:But if you I've learned over the years, if you let them leave well with dignity and, you let them know that when I see you at the grocery store, we're gonna say hi and, you know, that you wish them the best. And I always tell them whether it's in an email, text message, or in person, or even over the phone, you're always welcome at our church. I always say Hey.
Speaker 1:Don't steal don't steal all my stuff. We're we're only on number one here. So Sorry. Sorry. But, you no.
Speaker 1:No. You're perfect. So number two, what you started to say is, to understand that the stated reason is not always the reason. So there's, you know, like Chris said, there's a number of reasons why people leave. A lot of times, the main reasons are they're just not connecting with other people.
Speaker 1:You know, it's usually a relational, a friendship thing, something like that. However, whether it's conscious or subconscious, people won't say that. Instead, they're gonna say it's about the theology, it's about the mission or the vision, you know, all of these different things. And a lot of times, it's not that. Now the reason why that's so important to understand is when people would come to me and they'd say, hey.
Speaker 1:You know, the reason I'm leaving is I'm just I'm not being fed here. And so then I would counteract and be like, oh, okay. Well, let's get you in a, you know, discipleship group and, you know, just so you understand the preaching on Sundays meant for the I go on this whole thing. It was a total waste of time, a total waste of air because that wasn't the real reason. So and you may not know the real reason, always, but just understand what they're saying to you more than likely isn't the real or full reason.
Speaker 1:People just don't wanna say, you know, I don't like the I don't like the church building or the service times or too far of the drive, or I don't like your wife or whatever, it actually is, for that. So I don't know if you're saying that.
Speaker 2:The real reason yeah. When you do find out the real reason, it's really important because sometimes someone else from the church will come and tell you the real reason. Right? And and that's when it's really important to keep your composure and not be angry. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay? Like, Yeah. Just celebrate it. Well, man, I I wish them the best, and I'm I'm praying they find a good church, and, I hope they know they're always welcome here. Like, that's, like, when people come to me and they tell me the real oh, well, let me tell you the real reason why.
Speaker 2:Right? Yeah. And that's where for me, that's where it always got more personal because I'm like, well, why wouldn't they tell me the reason, you know? Yeah. But Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, it doesn't play well. Here's what doesn't play well. You being angry with other people about it. Like like or talking down about them or bad about them. You're a leader, and leaders lead.
Speaker 2:And I think it's really important to, I'm not asking you to tow the company line, but I think it's really important that, you're positive and affirming about whatever their next step is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And and so what I say is that when, people say that and, again, they're bracing for and most people are bracing for that when they do tell you, that they are gonna get yelled at. So they have all they might even come with a little list of their stuff and excuses and all of that. And so if your response can be composed and your number one thing, the first thing that can come out of your mouth is the word thanks. So you had mentioned that, Chris, and that's just a huge one, again, that I didn't learn until later on.
Speaker 1:And to say, you know what? Thank you so much for the time that you've invested here, you know, the money that you've invested, the people that you've impact. And so if you're able to do that, it often even diffuses the situation and for you to just, you know, acknowledge that even if they've been a real pain in the butt, which here's the funny thing. Chris, you and I both have stories of people that were pains in the butt. We couldn't wait to get rid of them.
Speaker 1:And as soon as they said, I'm leaving the church, we still took it personal and tried to convince them to stay. You know what I mean? Where it's just like I don't know. There's just some weird ego issue that we have as pastors and church planters. But if you can just, say thanks.
Speaker 1:And then the second thing, which you alluded to, Chris, is that you do send them well. So in other words, to say, like, hey. Totally understand. You know, thank you so much. You know, have you found a place yet?
Speaker 1:Here's some different places that we think that you ought to consider. Now they have Google. They know probably the other churches in town. They probably actually already been to them 10 to 15 times before they ever had a conversation with you about it. And, you know, but but by you saying that, it sends them well.
Speaker 1:In other words so the the illustration I use is that in the beginning, I was tight fisted with people. I just I wanted to do everything I could to keep people so that we would keep that number, keep that momentum, keep that giving, keep that volunteering. But if you can be open handed with people and they sense that, In other words, hey. You want what's best for me, not just what's best for this local congregation. It tends to, farewell for them that that they that they feel cared and, you know, cared cared for and loved.
Speaker 1:And then the other thing that you said, which I think is, you know, this is kind of where however the conversation goes once you get towards the end is to say, hey. I want you to know you can come back here and visit anytime you want. And if if god ever led you back here, we just want you to know, you know, that you're welcome here. Instead of, if you leave right now, I want you to know that you're stepping away and never ever could you come back here. You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Never walk back
Speaker 2:betray me. In this. You betrayed me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. In this way. And so here here's what I found out, you know, which is is pretty obvious. In the beginning, the more tight fisted I was, the more that I used guilt, the more that I tried to use the analogy that, you know, church membership is like a marriage, and so it's kinda like divorce, and Jesus hates divorce, or Jesus hates that you're leaving this church. How dare you go to the church down the street, type of thing.
Speaker 1:That really helped push people out and to keep them out. And I'm sure that as they shared their experience with other people, it was negative. The reverse happens, the more open handed that you are, that you talk to someone. Sometimes even when you hear from other people they're leaving and and you say, hey. Can we have a conversation?
Speaker 1:They, you know, they will sometimes reluctantly have that conversation with you. The more open handed that you are, then they talk positively. We had a number of people who how did you hear about the church? And they heard it from someone who had left the church. And because they had a positive experience even though they left the church, oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:You gotta go there and pastor Danny's really great or pastor Chris is really great, you know, that that type of of thing. And we even had where multiple people over the years would eventually come back. So they left. We didn't have a children's ministry or it wasn't meeting their needs or there's some relational issue. And then, eventually, they ended up, coming back, you know, to the church.
Speaker 1:And, again, that's not that's not your, like, ultimate goal. You really do need to be open handed. It'd be okay if they they plug in somewhere else. And if you can have that mentality that you send someone well, it will just go so well for you instead of, being tight fisted. So any conclusion Chris.
Speaker 2:I think that's a culture you have to build in in whatever your assimilation process is. If you have, like, a starting point thing or, like, a new member's thing or whatever it is that you do every six to eight weeks to welcome new people into your church, we always just say, we're we're gonna be open handed from the beginning beginning. We want something for you, not something from you. Alright? And so, like Mhmm.
Speaker 2:We know the power of being a part of a life giving church, one that you're connected to relationally and one where you have some kind of responsibility where you're serving. And so if that's not this church, let me help you find the church where that could be. And, one other way to thank people that leave, especially those that are on your launch team, as you think about church planting and all those things, is to thank them for helping you build the church. Like, I always say, you know, to launch team members or people that have been around for a really long time that leave, I always say thank you for helping. And for the rest of your life, you're gonna be able to say, I helped build a church, and I'm really grateful for that.
Speaker 2:You made my dream your dream, and so thank you. And, dude, I I for me, it's a heartfelt thing. And, it's amazing. I mean, I just just this last weekend, Josh and Samantha came back, to our church and even came to our assimilation thing that we do called Closer Look. They've been visiting for six weeks, but I did their wedding eight years ago, and they're back.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And the reason why they're back is that we didn't we it wasn't a cult. We didn't act like cults say we're never gonna talk again, just so you know. And they shame people, shun people. We're Christians.
Speaker 2:Okay? And so as a result of that, we should apply grace. And, man, I think that only good things will come if you loosen the grip on people and realize these people belong to Jesus, they don't belong to you.
Speaker 1:Boom. Mic drop on that. Thank you everybody for listening and watching this episode of 101 questions that church planters ask. And if you have a question, just head on over to our website, churchplannersask.com. You can leave us a comment there, and we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1:Until next time, keep asking those questions. Boom.