Wintersteel Part 1 - Will Wight - Progression Fantasy Book - Fantasy Book

Hey Adventurers! Back to the Cradle we go. In this episode, we delve into the eighth book of the Cradle series, Wintersteel, exploring the intricacies of the Uncrowned King Tournament and its implications for power dynamics among factions. Slava and Jonathan discuss character developments, particularly focusing on Linden, Yeren, and Aethon, while also addressing the emotional stakes and romantic elements that add depth to the narrative.

(00:00) Introduction to Cradle and Recap of Uncrowned
(02:50) Wintersteel Overview and Key Events
(05:58) Prologue Insights and Yerin’s Backstory
(09:06) The Script Circle and Its Implications
(12:02) Linden’s Encounter with Northstrider
(14:55) Tournament Stakes and Monarch Dilemmas
(18:03) Character Dynamics and Relationships
(20:43) Eithan’s Rise and Tournament Highlights
(23:41) Tournament Structure and Character Development
(26:53) Linden’s Struggles and Growth
(29:59) Conclusion and Reflections on the Journey
(32:05) Planet Fitness and First Impressions
(32:27) The Date Between Linden and Yerin
(37:05) Awkward Moments and Growing Connections
(39:04) The Importance of Reading in a Dangerous World
(44:30) The Role of Education in Survival
(48:35) Eithan’s Hidden Depths and Future Adventures

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Creators and Guests

Host

Jonathan

Host

Slava

What is The Side Quest Book Club Podcast?

Join Slava and Jonathan as they discuss the books they are reading. Explore world-building, characters, and story development—and share some laughs along the way. Side Quest Book Club — a literary adventure podcast.

SLAVA (00:00.344)
coming to you from the endless library where every book is read and every spoiler discussed. Join us as we dig into the lives of fictional people who cannot defend themselves.

Welcome back side questers for another episode in the world of cradle. But before we begin, let's do a quick rehash from book seven uncrowned. Here's the TLDR in case you missed it. In the Abaddon court, the Eerie steals a copy of Osriel's scythe from Machiel and she trades it to the Mad King for a world seed. When Machiel finds out that the Mad King

did that, he believes that the Mad King will immediately begin a war with the Abaddon, which then he instructs the other Abaddon to begin recruitment, which affects some of what takes place in the book we're going to discuss today. The Uncrowned King Tournament is set to begin. However, as Linden and crew are traveling there, Sepharin Toth disables their cloud ship. Thankfully, the Winter Sage finds them, assists them, and helps them make it just in time.

to make for opening ceremony and then the book continues from Uncrowned to show us that Linden, Yeren, Mercy and Aethon all make it to top 16, which is where our book today takes off. Northstrider pits Linden against Yeren at the end of last book, much to their dismay and Linden loses, which means Yeren is moving on to become an Uncrowned, which is the top eight.

which we see in today's episode. So that's the quick TLDR from Uncrowned, now beginning Winter Steel. Slava, do you want to give us a quick overview?

SLAVA (01:50.41)
Love to Jonathan. Wintersteel, the eighth book in the Cradle series, sees tensions between competing factions rise during the Uncrowned King Tournament, the outcome of which will determine the power balance and whether the Dread Gods are allowed to rampage. Northstrider takes an interest in Linden and draws, teaching Linden the powerful Consume technique and granting him diamond veins to strengthen his

Madra channels. Linden's companion thus far Yeren is tutored by the Winter Sage Min Shwe and eventually merges with her blood shadow affectionately called Ruby allowing her to advance to Overlord. Meanwhile, Aethon advances to Archlord strategically engaging the tournament and making a complex deal with Rhaegon Shen to protect House Aurelius.

and address the Dread God threat. Mercy loses her matches, leaving Yeren as the faction's final hope while the Dread Gods begin to stir, particularly the Wandering Titan. During the tournament, the Abaddon Hound, Kurion, pressures monarchs to ascend and clarifies that whoever wins pennants will decide the fate of the western labyrinth entrance in Sacred Valley.

On the Drag God battlefield, Linden gains unexpected insight into his Madra and fully manifests the Void icon, becoming Sage of the Twin Stars at Underlord. A rare feat I might add. Yaren, in the final match against Sephora, merges her Bloodshadow Ruby, an Overlord Herald and swiftly defeats her opponent, winning the Uncrowned King Tournament.

Following the tournament, monarchs like Fury ascend and battle one another, and Reg and Shen's assassination team targets Linden's allies. As Linden, Yeren, and Aethon prepare to return to Sacred Valley, which is being evacuated due to the Awakening Wandering Titan, they face the immediate aftermath of these world-changing events. Here's where we find ourselves, Jonathan. Treachery upon treachery? Or...

SLAVA (04:19.744)
little bit less treachery than Dune, but nonetheless.

a little less, but I'd say it's less political for us to understand and more, well, you know, I'm actually thinking about it and Dune kind of has a might equals right style as well, if you really think about it.

Yeah, at least for the faction that takes over the planet.

Right. And for the faction that loses the planet, right? And then I would even propose and go as far as Moadib ends up having might equals right with the emperor near the end of the book. So, because he forces him to concede, takes his daughter, puts her into a lockup. So that's where I'm like, you said it. And I was thinking, no.

But I paused and realized that I actually think it is a might makes right style, just different. Anyhow.

SLAVA (05:26.926)
Ready then. We should get into it.

Let's do it. The prologue starts off with us seeing a backstory of Yeren's master and he had traveled to Sacred Valley. At the time, we didn't know why. Now we get to see that he was traveling back to Sacred Valley to try to help Yeren remove her blood shadow. Didn't work. In his desire to try to help Yeren, it ended up costing him his life. And we find out later in this book that his travel to Sacred Valley

He postponed his marriage, his nuptials with the winter sage. And so she kind of holds Yeren responsible for the fact that her fiance died. Understandably so, because he went to try to help his protege and it didn't pan out. Why didn't it pan out? Well, we find out that Sacred Valley has a script circle around it, which is why everyone inside Sacred Valley has suppressed power levels, which was enlightening.

So, gonna pause there for second about the prologue. Did you find that surprising, Slava?

I found a few things curious about the prologue and it posed some questions, answered some questions. The most enlightening, even though I imagined this would be the case, it was nice to have it confirmed, is the sage's love for Yeren. He really treated her like a daughter. Despite being kind of a hard ass, he is, was interested in her well-being beyond just teacher and tutor to whatever ends.

SLAVA (07:04.52)
Tutor might have interest in this type of world and he gave his life for her So it's no wonder that she is so devoted to him even post-death and he was probably a decent guy if Min Shui is that upset by his death, too? Obviously she was you know as you say betrothed to him, which I didn't catch I only thought they had some sort of collegial You for lack of a better word relationship

Or maybe he was her master. Okay. Or something like that. I never caught the fact that they were engaged. So whatever. makes sense, I suppose. But what's interesting is that script around sacred Valley. Cause that is different than what we thought. Different than what I thought reading the previous seven books. There has in my understanding, in my reading of it, there was a curse on sacred Valley and that's why serial was involved. Right.

Got it.

SLAVA (08:03.512)
to some degree and that's why nobody there could advance past Jade. But now we learn there is a script that is causing a devolvement or a stagnation, that's a better word, a stagnation of Sacred Valley. And to some degree, it affects people who come in because the Sage, he felt some of his power drain from him while he was there. So this script does something

his pa-

SLAVA (08:33.208)
to the people. holds them in limbo and anybody who comes in, it does more damage apparently.

It's a suppression script, basically. If you remember back in Unsouled where Linden made a script around the remnant that was created with the tree that he knocked down or whatever, the circle helps like suppress the power of the being inside. There's different types of script circles, but this one had to have been created by a monarch because it's so large. It's ridiculous.

And we find out later that the reason that it was made is to suppress the wandering titan Dread God. So it's powerful enough to suppress a Dread God. That's pretty powerful.

Yeah, and its consequences or subsequent consequences is that it also affects the people there in a detrimental way.

Yes, it's sort of seen as a cost of doing business or suitable collateral damage, if you will, to, in the monarch's opinion, which tells you everything you need to know about Akuramalas because that's her land.

SLAVA (09:41.356)
Yeah, yeah, that's the day she rolled.

From the prologue, we go into chapter one where Linden is encountered by, or interrupted, I suppose I should say, not encountered, by Norse rider. And he wants to chat with Dros again. So he basically pulls him out of Linden's mind and then opens a portal and leaves being a monarch. He just kind of does whatever he wants. And Linden can feel the Madra attachment to Dros through the closed portal.

and ends up ripping the portal back open just barely with his current strength level to step in and then follow North Strider to what happens to be a meeting of the minds for the monarchs. And a little bit ago, I mentioned that the summary of the last book is that the Abaddon believe that there's a war coming, but their ranks are thin. And so they need new recruits. So where do they go? They go to Cradle. The whole planet that Linden and his team live on.

to find new recruits, which is why the Hound is there threatening them, telling them that it's time for them to, you know, sack up and do what he says because if they don't, they're gonna die. And to pressure them, he offers the winner of the Uncrowned King Tournament penance, which can instantly kill anyone on the planet, which means that the monarchs are then vulnerable to the whims of whatever Underlord wins the tournament. So...

And because might equals right, they've all made a bunch of enemies with other people's minions and disciples. And so the pressure looms for the monarchs. And they think that North Strider is not playing fair, even though he takes an oath and proves to them that he is. They're not a real trusting bunch, if you will.

SLAVA (11:34.068)
No, they're not. But North Strider kind of does what he wants. I think they sort of kinda 90-10, 10 being what I think is owed to them in a little bit of grace is why they might not trust North Strider. But then the day, despite him being who he is, a guy who just, you know, does what he, what the hell the hell he wants, he seems to want the best for the world. So he's not.

Always.

SLAVA (12:03.64)
Perceive in it solely for himself to the detriment of others perceivably sure You sort of get a hint of that when Lyndon breaks through the portal North strata looks on in surprise But also considers Lyndon in some way going. Well, okay this kid knows more Than I thought is more powerful than I thought and which indicates that Lyndon's ability

to open the portal himself is pretty unexpected given Northstrider's power. So it's unexpected if it surprises Northstrider.

Right, because he's a monarch.

And it's a pretty significant feat.

And then the funny part, I suppose, is Lyndon's Lyndon. Initially, he doesn't realize that he was the one that opened the portal.

JONATHAN (12:58.35)
Right. And Dross even goes, see, he's a nice guy. He opened it back up for you. Dross with his funny quips and quims and all those things.

Yeah, little dross.

that we all might have a little drug.

Now, do you have a little dross in your head? Do you have conversations with yourself, like thoughts that actually go back and forth, or is there nothing there?

I have a little dross in my head, which is why I'm as weird as I am. And I say that because thinking is actually quite difficult because it requires the ability to challenge your thoughts, as you said, back and forth.

SLAVA (13:40.43)
Cause I've met some people who have admitted to me that they do not have conversations of themselves. They're like, like, what do mean? Like you don't have like a thought in your head, like do numbers. used to do new long division and long multiplication in my head when I was a kid, just for the hell of it, because I loved math so much before, you know, they added parentheses and letters to it. But I can have conversations with myself, not like a crazy person or, know,

Yeah

We're not talking about schizophrenia or hearing voices in the sense of like they tell you burn down your workplace, right? It's thought, it's just being able to go back and forth with yourself in terms of like dissecting a problem in front of you. think math is a great example.

Yeah, and so my one of my buddies at work and I were talking about these people because they were like What goes on in their heads throughout the day? What happens when they're planning something because they're in the same industry as we are What? Happens in their head when they sit down and say I need to tell the audience X Y & Z this rollout is coming out this announcement is being made and I need to take this dry piece of data

and turn it into a multimedia graphic or I need to create a four by five video for Instagram or whatever and it has to look like this. I'm going to storyboard it in this manner. How do they not have a conversation in their head doing that?

JONATHAN (15:16.846)
Great question because marketing as you and I both know is not simply finding an account and then start reaching out to people. It takes a lot more of a multi-omnichannel approach where it's like, okay, I'm going to hit them with an email and then I'm going hit them with a LinkedIn message and then I'm going to like mail them a direct mailer and I'm going to try to use them as an audience for my video that I made to come up in front of them.

And then if they visit this coffee shop, it'll trigger a different video. And so you're trying to get them from like six or seven angles, but to your point, that requires a lot of planning and thought.

Yeah, and even if I'm deciding where to take my wife for anniversary, it's between two restaurants and granted it was maybe a 15 second conversation with myself and my Ed, but I'm like, am I taking her to her favorite place or am I going to take her to this new Japanese place that is all the rage that just opened up a few months ago? Anyway, just a thought.

Yeah, it's strange. Fun little side quest though. Audience, do you happen to be one of the people who has back and forth thoughts with yourself to sort through ideas and questions and decisions? Or are you like some of these other people who don't actually have that? And what's that like? Share that with us in the comments on your favorite platform or on YouTube. Love responding to comments on YouTube.

Diving back to the story, a couple more things here. Before Lyndon leaves this meeting, Emery's Silentborn states that she believes that the outcome of the tournament will be war, regardless of how it goes. And she sort of has this existential, I guess we'll call it, moment where she has a deeper understanding of what's going on and asks if they've run out of time so soon, which means that she's somehow in tune with things, although we don't get a lot of her perspective. We get just enough from Will White.

JONATHAN (17:20.45)
So still coming in with that movie style cut here, cut there following this person, Omni third person, third person. Yeah, third person Omniscient. Man, words are hard right now. But anyway, any thoughts there, Sla?

No, I kind of glossed over that part. There's parts of this book that seemed, I don't want to say boring because they weren't boring, but they seem just standard for the world. And this is the eighth book in the series. And I was just trying to get through them to the next piece of action. So just as with the betrothal of the winter sage and Ottima, same thing here. Lyndon broke through, they have a little conversation.

Ross gets given back to Linden, North Strider eats himself out again and we're back into the uncrowned thing that's going on. Those events, those people are participating in the tournament and I was back with them again. So there'll be two or three instances I can tell by your notes, will you ask me a question? And I'll be like, yep, that happened. I have about half a thought on it because my brain was waiting for something else to happen to get back into the action.

You were waiting for Yaron's fights and seeing if she made it through the.

Top eight that and what Lyndon's doing because he's left behind air quotes and he's training and he wants to train real hard to get at least as far ahead as Yaron to be her equal or just next to her adjacent to her in power. And so I was waiting for the outcomes of those plot lines more than anything.

JONATHAN (19:06.712)
All right, so you're just like kind of mentally paused between those plots.

Right, right, that's a good way of saying it.

Fair enough. All right, well, the carries on where Lyndon has to climb down from the tower where the meeting was at. Because if he can get himself up there, then the monarchs just assume that he can get himself down. And they decide not to help him. I suppose it's, again, might makes right. He goes to find Aethon and Yeren and Mercy. And Mercy kind of feels like it's her fault that Yeren and Lyndon had to fight each other.

We don't get any extra details on that, but she takes responsibility anyway because she knows how her family is. But I think North Strider was the one who paired everybody up. So I don't know if her belief is actually accurate as much as it's just, you know, being a good friend, knowing your family's powerful and trying to be caring about what took place.

I think that's it. I think you answered your own question. It's just her being a good person at end of the day, knowing that her family is a little wonky at times.

JONATHAN (20:12.258)
That's my take. Yeah. Yeah.

I'll buy that for a dollar.

All right, $1 to Slava, sold, sold, sold. Lyndon pushes Aethyn to see if Shamiara is actually a monarch, and he's like, no, no, no, no, yeah, she is. So that is, you know, Aethyn very heartily trying to deny and then goes, actually, I don't care enough to keep this charade. So you're right, Lyndon, she is, good job.

It's funny because we loved I know I loved a thing in the first books where we get so much of him and The last two we don't get a lot we get little bits of a thin and in some pretty significant portions of the book significant plot lines But he comes in does this thing acts like a thin and then we move on to the rest of the team pretty quickly

True.

SLAVA (21:15.842)
I mean the end of this book is a little bit different, we get more of him and more of them as a team again, but overall the last two three books including the first two thirds of this book, not a lot of anything.

It's true, yeah, everyone's kind of split up, they're on different teams, they're all sort of handling different aspects of the, I'll call it confusion, it's kind of chaotic, but it's more confusing, I think, even for them in-world, where they're like, okay, and then Abaddon came down and slapped the monarchs on the wrist, they're offering us this world-shifting tool if we win.

which then affects how the monarchs feel and how they're going to play things out. And it's just, it's all just very confusing. So, Aethon is doing whatever Aethon does, but we do get to see some fun moments. I'll skip ahead here and we don't need to go chapter by chapter, but where Aethon gets to be through a couple fights and we see just kind of how powerful he is again, because it's been a minute since we've seen that.

Yeah, his whole fight at the end of the book with well, Shamiyara, right? Or who does he fight? Remind me who he fights. He stabs them in the temple with the scissors. Yeah, it is Shamiyara. He fights her. He severs her spirit and then stabs her in the temple with the scissors. And the speed and the impact of the fight is what everybody's in awe of.

Yes, because he activated a stopwatch in his pocket revealing that it lasted only nine seconds the fight lasted only nine seconds and this overwhelming display of power Leaves linden and yarin shocked and the victory immediately influences the monarchs with fury wanted to keep athin and reagan shen viewing him as a significant threat so

JONATHAN (23:15.968)
Yeah, well, there's a nemesis sort of relationship going on there for sure. Because Raygon Shen, we'll see his backstory later if we haven't already seen much of it now. I read Threshold recently, which is like, it's in the Cradle world and it happens all before book 12 that White released during one of his Kickstarters. And so I think we get a full backstory of Raygon Shen in that. It all kinds of

blends together sometimes, you know?

Totally. This one more than anything else. And we are really only doing two series C's right now. I'm not talking about Lynch, because that's like four books at the moment. And the other seven are somewhere. But the big ones that are published and ready to go are the Cosmere, obviously, which we're looking at around, what, five books for the main quest?

that we're on and then 23 in general for the world and then here there's 12 books that I know of so on book eight everything is melted together melted together I don't know the timeline is just

It's hard to keep them straight. I believe that we talked about this with Spencer too in book four, where book four was so short. You're like, what's going on? The other thing that leaves it a little confusing, but also is a benefit and does contribute to the action side of this. And we've talked about this before too, is that white cuts in the middle of the action. like Uncrowned, which is the name of the last book, doesn't actually finish the tournament, right? So Wintersteel,

JONATHAN (25:00.322)
the tournament finishes. And so like you have these key moments that you're like, right, this key moment is named after this book. Nope, wrong. That key moment is named after that book, but the key moment actually splits between two books, which is why the writing feels action oriented, right? Like the story always feels like it's moving forward quite quickly and keeps us engaged. Yeah, hard to keep it straight, but Raegon Shun's backstory will happen at some point. And I'm also just realizing

Yeah.

JONATHAN (25:30.254)
just verbally realizing after we finish book 12, we should just read threshold because it's a series of short stories that happened before book 12. But he says don't read it until, until you're done. It's like an anthology. So.

Yeah, we can do that.

SLAVA (25:42.798)
More to follow on that.

So, yeah, verbally putting that on here. And now, chapter four, we're back with my boy Zeal, and could just die. I guess I'll just die. And he wins his fight kind of without much sweat involved, right? When I was reading it, it didn't seem like he had to really struggle that hard with this guy. Now, that's not the case later, but in this case at least.

I I'll just die.

JONATHAN (26:14.892)
It didn't feel like he had to struggle very hard.

No I don't think so. agree. It maybe was one of those moments in my head where again my mind took a pause waiting for the other people that I cared about but it seemed that he won the match with minimal effort.

I would also say that this is kind one of the downfalls too of running a tournament style narrative because there's so many names and so many matches and it happens just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, run one right after another. And I even think that Will tried to slow it down. I'm making an assumption. I can't prove any of this as a thought, but it kind of felt like he tried to slow it down by having other things going on.

Maybe it was just trying to make the story more robust and like carry the story forward but it was a little muddy to like okay Zeal's fighting so-and-so because the so-and-so's are all people whose names don't mean anything to us right like they're just characters that need to get defeated and even though White does his best to try to give us like their POV or a little backstory or like a couple sentences of like

Ulrock Kragstrider was so and so and so and so. He's known for destroying the Blue Dragon Cult in the fifth era of the whatever blah blah blah blah blah blah. And then like the fight happens and a quarter just knocks him out of the water anyway. And you're like, all right, well, I don't need to remember that character.

SLAVA (27:41.55)
Yep, and not to keep bringing it back to King but the point of reference is King right now and it has been for at least half a year when we've come to these type of talking points is sometimes a writer and again King has said this in interviews goes I need to kill these people or I don't know where I'm doing with this character he's going to die so not a one-to-one analogy but

to kind of dovetail or bolster your point, we need a tournament, we need some people to fill the seats and they're all gonna have to lose the tournament. So here's two or three sentences in the backstory, here's two or three things of note to make them somewhat interesting for the reader, they're gonna die. Or in this case, they're just gonna lose. So I don't fault Will for that, that's not a knock. No, no. That's just how a story comes together, sometimes. Edit.

And at the end of the day, like you said, like, let's even pretend for a second that he pulled like someone from the Heaven's Glory School from book one, one of the characters, Narugwe. Let's say he threw Narugwe in here as well, who we know from book four. Maybe it's the emperor's sister who we met one time. Maybe Jai Long made it. It's just like, OK, at some point we still have to kill half the people.

Exactly. And it's not even killing in terms of killing killing because the monarchs hold authority over the space-time continuum, whatever, in the ring. But it's just like, yeah, there's a bunch of people who aren't going to make it, and that's okay. Because the story just has to move forward. It's a lot to juggle, both as a reader and even more so I'd say as a writer.

Yes, because you have to make it make sense for us, the readers.

JONATHAN (29:32.184)
Yeah, which means a lot of planning, a lot of toiling.

Yep. A lot of cutting. Yeah.

Anyway, moving forward, Akura wins her fight, Akura Mercy, Yanchome wins hers, and now we're at the top eight of the last people for everyone moving forward. Linden sees the ceremony going on and he's a little butthurt, not a little bit, he's very butthurt because he's like, I should be up there with them. Aethon's up there, Yaron's up there, Zeal's up there, but he's not up there. It's just not the way it's gonna be.

Nope. So.

Which I really like, I think I've said this before, when white and other authors take the main character and they really knock them down, it's like, yeah, sometimes you're not the main character and that's okay.

SLAVA (30:17.006)
Yeah, I agreed. And for Lyndon's arc story thus far, what I know about Lyndon, what I think I know about Lyndon, that's going to be there for a while. That type of struggle for Lyndon is just part and parcel of being an unsold. And the fact that he got to where he is and his only problem is he's not part of the eight. Not a bad problem to have, dude. You had no soul, only

Seven or eight books ago and now you're in the uncrowned king tournament as an unsold From Sacred Valley from a group of people who never made it past Jade take the W brother. Yeah, take the frickin W

Ex-

It's like he was raised in the swamps of Louisiana and he ends up being like world class fighter pilot. But he's not in the top eight of the fighter pilots. He's top 16 and that sucks.

Well now you've just insulted the three of our listeners who are from Louisiana, so good on you.

JONATHAN (31:28.302)
But they're all fighter pilots in my scenario. Well, they're not, they're actually not all.

No, only one of them, maybe, is a fighter pilot. The rest of them are just swamp people according to you.

Whoa, we should have a Lunk Alarm alert. I don't know if you're familiar with Planet Fitness, but there's this Lunk Alarm. If they feel like you're being too aggressive with your weight lifting, they'll go, woo, woo. And it freaks everybody out, because there's lights that blare and stuff. the like the intercom goes on. If someone's doing too much weight and they throw it down afterward, and it's like.

They're not trying to intimidate. The place is pink and yellow. Calm down guys. Or purple and yellow. Some people just like can't afford a real gym.

The only time I've ever been to a Planet Fitness, it smelled like pee and shame, and I never went back.

JONATHAN (32:17.42)
Whoa. All right. I don't know what PF you're going to, PF. That's what we call it around here in the streets. PF, plan a fitness boy.

P.F. okay, excuse me.

JONATHAN (32:31.788)
Well, you made it this far. Rate the show.

Why not go a step further? It helps more than you think.

SLAVA (32:44.28)
Fair enough, but I really want to talk about the date that Lyndon and Yarin go on. Cause that's a fun moment in the book. And I have some takes on it. I have some takes on it.

Hahaha

I figured you'd want to talk about that. Of course you do. Of course you do. Please. Lead us home. Lead us there. Whatever.

So the proposition as I have it titled in my notes after Mercy loses her match to Sephora she confronts Lyndon about his feelings for Yeren and of course Lyndon is evasive at the onset suggesting that maybe him and Yeren could train together because that's so awesome and romantic. Mercy presses him demanding they do something that is explicitly

romantic.

SLAVA (33:37.16)
not training or related to training together. And this finally pushes Lyndon to ask Yaron out on a dinner date. And what I found kind of endearing is fun, cute, whatever you want to call it, is Yaron accepts immediately. Even before Lyndon finishes asking the question, Yaron's like, yep, yep, let's go. Yes. Thought you'd never ask. So here, Mercy,

acting like a supportive Yenta, a supportive matchmaker, ensures that Linden gets the best table at the restaurant because the Kura clan is footing the bill so who the hell cares? And she sets up the atmosphere if you will and even helps Yeren dress for the occasion because despite Yeren, you know, being my gal, she has some she has some learning to do here too.

You know, Lyndon might not understand what a date actually is but Yaren would be the type of girl that goes on a date with you know her plan fitness clothes on with a sword hanging off him back so Which it literally does

Six of them, but yes.

with six swords hanging out of her back. So they get to the restaurant, and this is the best part for me. They get to the restaurant and this douche sees them and goes, hey, why don't you fight for me? Do a little song and dance and dog and pony show. And his friends are like, hey, buddy.

JONATHAN (35:10.54)
Well, one correction, he doesn't see them. He hears them. He hears his name mentioned and he's like, hey, get up here. And the, the, the maitre d is like, sir, we should talk privately. He's like, send them up. And Yaron's like, he said, us up. So we're going to go. Just very cheekily.

So you mentioned something before we started recording that this guy and his friends are sitting there and it seems, at least to you, that this is like a forced friendship hour, at least for some of the people there. And they're like, hey buddy, thanks for inviting. The way that they respond. Yeah. Like, hey buddy, this is all great that we're sitting here, but do you know who these two are? One of them's from the Uncrowned.

Please.

JONATHAN (35:59.438)
They're like elbowing each other, nudging each other.

One of them is from the Uncrowned King Tournament and she's top 8. And then he starts groveling.

I ordered your first- your first-

course and deservingly so because guys like him either throw titles or money around as something that is worthy of respect in and of itself and so to see him taking down a peg was was nice but the more more importantly

It was, because he, I think it tells us that he's the son of the owner or something.

SLAVA (36:37.194)
I don't know, but more importantly, the fact that Yaron and Lyndon had a very awkward sort of awkward, I said it's not very, it wasn't very awkward. They actually had a good time together, but the beginning of it was kind of, I don't want to say high school because it's not really high school. It's just, I don't know. The only word that's coming to mind is awkward, but I don't mean it in the, clearest sense of that word. It was just a bit disjointed the way it started.

and then this douche kind of broke the ice or something or broke the awkwardness where they sat down, Yaren starts chomping away on half-eaten food and they end up having a great time. So I thought it was a fun little bit that we'll wipe through in here.

There's a few of those fun little bits like when there's the touching moment between the sendoff with Lyndon and the group. know, Mercy's just like, bye friends. She's very excited and Lyndon is like, I'm sorry, I can't go with you to Yeren. And Aethyn is like, remember your haircare, remember your haircare. After he slides him like some very powerful gifts.

And Yaron clearly wants to have a kiss in a moment, but like the sages are watching as is Athen and Dros is like, Ooh, what are you guys doing? Little blues there. It's a group. It's a group thing.

And here's when I'm rolling my eyes and shaking my head at Lyndon just like, dude, just kiss the girl for God sakes. Stop being a, yeah, wimp. Ethan is watching. Okay.

JONATHAN (38:20.13)
He's always watching. Get over it.

But hey, they ended up having that kiss. No thanks to Lyndon.

That's true. Not for a bit though. Another cute moment though is when

You know what's not cute though? You know it's the opposite of cute? Izier and not being able to read. That's not cute. That's kind of stupid.

Not you don't need to be able to read.

SLAVA (38:43.168)
not because I'm calling Yaron stupid. I'm calling out her stupid parents and the sage going, you don't need to be able to read to kill things. Forget reading Yaron. You'll make it fine just, you know, marking an X on everything from now on.

It seems that way. know that this is kind of our second go at this, but we did have a bit of a tussle on this yesterday regarding reading and the requirements of reading for the education of a young woman or man in this world. And you got pretty spicy about that.

I did. I stand by the fact

came from the perspective that, yes, please, go on, go on,

I stand by the fact that although you do not need the ability to read in order to swing a sword, the ability to read in whatever world you're in, fake, imaginary, or the real world, is a huge plus. And the fact that in this world where all these people are constantly conniving and plotting against each other and might is right, the ability to read

SLAVA (39:56.584)
only adds to the power and the ability of a sacred artist to thrive. will die on this hill and the fact that nowhere in the 10 years that the sage knew her and in the few years where she could have started to learn to read with her parents before they were slaughtered, nobody thought for a second that Yeren should learn how to read. I'm going to assume that Yeren's compatriots

of the same age probably knew how to read before they were all killed so whatever

And did it help them?

Well that was my claim.

No, it did not.

SLAVA (40:41.784)
Listen, learning how to read won't help you in a nuclear holocaust, but learning how to read is a normal part of life that sets you up for success. And you shouldn't not learn how to read because a nuclear apocalypse might happen. That's a stupid position.

Ha

It's not that it might happen. It's that her whole family was slaughtered We we went through her age yesterday, too Because this is like a rerecord because we ran into some technical technical. Yeah

And that they know that?

SLAVA (41:13.13)
I was screaming so loud that it broke the microphone.

It's it's very true. Yaron's master died when she was 16, 17, but he was with her for about 10 years because he picked her up when she was six or seven. And you said yesterday like, that's old enough to read or whatever you said. I couldn't hear you over the yelling.

Yep. So.

You're you're you're gonna die on this

That is old enough to read. Bleed and bear in me, that girl should friggin learn how to read. At six or seven.

JONATHAN (41:49.026)
She does!

It's the winter sage where she's like, I will just die if you become an overlord and don't know how to read. One of the world's top 1 % of people.

only person in this whole world.

and she can't read.

Right, the only person in this whole damn world that cares about Yaren as a whole being is the Winter Sage. And I know she's an annoying character. We can get into that or not get into that. I read some comments on Reddit that were just eviscerated. Well, maybe that's a pun or I don't know why I used that word. They weren't that bad, but they definitely were. What's the word I'm looking for?

SLAVA (42:39.534)
They were definitely in union, these commenters, about how annoying and dumb the winter sage is. And if I'm going to give that to them, at least she wants the girl to learn how to read. A normal thing that every human should be able to do. Irrespective of her prowess with a sword.

You know who else didn't care about her reading?

Hitler.

well, yeah, anyway, I'm going to ignore that comment. I was going to say, Aethyn, because we're with him and her since book one, basically. Sorry, book two. It's really book two because they're with Fisher Gesha and Aethyn also doesn't care if she knows how to read.

Fischergesche, Athen, do not care for this poor girl. They want to leave her illiterate because hey, whatever, we're gonna go to the end of the sacred arts without reading a damn paper scroll or a book or a script. You can't read anything, but hey, you're gonna be a sacred artist. Okay, buddy.

JONATHAN (43:39.948)
Well, what do you guys think? Does it make sense that Yaren didn't learn how to read because she was too busy surviving this parasite living inside of her and beginning stronger so that she could defeat it or RIP Ruby, by the way, we'll talk about that next time. We'll also talk about the fact that Ethan has an additional title that says he like knows everything or whatever the title is.

He sees something or see something. That's not what it says. He is a seer of things or he's Yeah, he's the one who sees but hey, here's a thing for you Maybe maybe if she learned how to read she could read some sacred text. Okay, that would help her deal with the bloodshadow How about that?

Overlord revel-

JONATHAN (44:12.224)
I see.

JONATHAN (44:24.994)
They literally address this in story though and they say like, she's like, I haven't needed to learn how to read because dream tablets exist, which is basically like watching a TV.

Again, she was never taught the right thing. And that's the problem of her leadership. Yer- That's because she doesn't know any better. She doesn't know any better because nobody that's an authority figure in her life has taught her the fact that reading is an important part of life. But anyway, we'll leave it here. Audience? You're like-

Aaron doesn't care that she doesn't. Aaron doesn't care that she knows how to.

JONATHAN (44:54.838)
You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll leave it here.

Audience drop your opinions in the comments jack wagging and I'll read them to Jonathan since he doesn't ought to read either. This is why he's so salty

It's why I have to audiobook I'm actually illiterate which is why I'm defending this point

goodness, but

slowly more than once that i can sit and comprehend them words of please chime in with all your hate yeah they gotta be smaller less than three syllables or i won't get it

SLAVA (45:20.344)
Don't use big words.

SLAVA (45:29.462)
And I won't be able to pronounce them because, you know, for other reasons.

English isn't my first language because I'm smarter than you.

Not once have I said that, but okay.

You don't say it on air, you don't want the people to know. I'm letting them in, I'm letting them into the secret. Slava just, he always starts the show with like, as I'm hitting record and it's like counting down, he's like, just remember that I'm better than you. Because I speak two languages.

And I'm better than you at a disadvantage. Not only am I an immigrant, I am also, I know three languages more than you. And I went to college for four more years than you. Before we start, just keep that in mind. Yeah, went to college for eight years. I got a master's.

JONATHAN (46:07.448)
JONATHAN (46:12.241)
For four more years than I did?

JONATHAN (46:18.658)
I got a master's as well, but I got an MBA. But it took me eight years to do my undergrad, and then it took me two years for my master's.

That's not the flex that you think it is.

I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying that you didn't go for longer than me. I guess it's a flex. I've got the student loans to prove it. That's, that's my only flex that I have here. It's not a great flex.

Yeah, the last one was just a joke because my wife is doing her masters and she was doing a class a semester. So it took her like six years to finish her masters because she was working full time and she didn't want to have her brain explode or burn out. So I told her, hey, a class a semester will, will fix all the issues if you can wait that long. And she was able to wait that long. So she's finishing it up now writing her thesis, but yeah, it took her a bit to finish her masters.

I just went all the way through because I got scholarships because I'm so smart.

JONATHAN (47:14.68)
I did not get because I'm not ethnic enough.

Well played. Well played, sir.

You

Think I paid 12,000. No, I did account Bucks and fees and everything included. I think I paid around 15 grand for all my core coursework

Absolutely absolutely wild you know how much the film school cost me

SLAVA (47:44.994)
by 100,000.

Half that, but close enough. At this point, because I've been paying on the loan, I've been paying on the loan for 15 years, slava. 15 years, I can't get out from under this thing. 15, absolutely criminal.

Good lord. It is criminal.

Yeah. So if you want to buy me a coffee, would gladly accept Slava. Where's my little coin, coin, coin glass.

Like a popper?

JONATHAN (48:13.58)
Yes, that was that's the implication here. Where's my coin glass? Did you hide my cardboard with the sign on it again?

Imagine if you could read. How much more quickly would you have finished your bachelor's?

Alright, the episode's done. It's done. That's it. This is we're not There's a part two. We'll cover them the rest of the book in part two. It's whatever. I just it's done We just I can't I just can't with you Imagine if you could read I need I would I used to have spare change on my desk here, but I can't find it So I can't even I can't even afford coins. I just have a cup of pencils

That's how poor I am. Thanks film school. Help me learn how to do a podcast.

Thanks for watching.

JONATHAN (49:08.43)
the last thing that I'll say for this episode is, Aethon does something fun, but also powerful. He gets swept away by his sage. He is like, yeah, what are we going to do? lunch and this and that and the, great. Okay. And so he steps into the other room in a second, absorbs the right sacred artifacts, walks back out and he goes, sorry, that took so long, which was like four seconds, if that, and then they carry on. It's like, he's, he's more than meets the eye.

on Nintendo.

He is and I read that quip that he said sorry took so long not that the four seconds was so long or that it could be a double entendre there I thought he meant that could be the fact that he concealed himself and purposefully held himself back from becoming an arch lord while he was with Yaren and Linden up until this point That's how I read it. It could be both. It's still funny. I like that part of the story,

Knowing Ethan, it's probably

Are we landing this cloud?

JONATHAN (50:11.338)
Anyway, that's today's episode. This cloud, yeah, we are landing this cloud. Thanks for joining us today, folks. Let us know if you had some hot takes from Wintersteel and tune in next time where we cover the second half of the book. And also drop in for episode three where we have the boys back to discuss might makes right, JT, Spencer, and...

Boys are back in town.

Can't wait. The boys are back in

Well folks...

See you next time.

JONATHAN (50:51.8)
I have a favor to ask you. If you like what we're doing, the simplest way to support the show is to hit subscribe. In return, we'll keep leveling up, we'll listen to your feedback, and read authors that you suggest. And of course, we'll take side quests along the way.