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To respond to the challenging times we are living through, physician, humanitarian and social justice advocate Dr. Paul Zeitz has identified “Revolutionary Optimism” as a new cure for hopelessness, despair, and cynicism. Revolutionary Optimism is itself an infectious, contagious, self-created way of living and connecting with others on the path of love. Once you commit yourself as a Revolutionary Optimist, you can bravely unleash your personal power, #unify with others, and accelerate action for our collective repair, justice, and peace, always keeping love at the center.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:00:00:
Hey Jesse, thank you so much for joining the podcast. It's such an honor to have you here today and thank you bro.
Jesse Leon - 00:00:10:
Dr. Paul, it's good to be here with you on your Revolutionary Optimism Podcast. I love, love, love the title and the purpose. So thanks for doing what you do.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:00:21:
Great. Well, we met about a year ago when I was working with the Brave Movement and you were, you were publishing your book, your Memoir, I'm Not Broken, which shares your story of being a male survivor. And it's been such a gift to connect with, learn from you, from your story, and also to be on this journey with you as I am a survivor of early childhood sexual violence as well. And your bravery is contagious, man. So if you could share a bit of your story and, you know, inspire people, give them a taste of your story that is going to make them want to go buy the book immediately, you know, that would be really great. We want to hear from you now.
Jesse Leon - 00:01:16:
Thank you, Dr. Paul. I wrote, I'm Not Broken, in English. Came out in August of 2022. No estoy roto, the Spanish version of I'm Not Broken came out in January 2023. I read the audiobooks in both English and Spanish, which are extremely powerful. And it's, book about my journey of being a survivor, someone who's lived through sexual exploitation as a child and being sex trafficked and experiencing childhood sexual violence. And I wanted to take the reader through my experiences to convey a message of hope, a message of strength. To exemplify that we are resilient. And that we survivors can work through some of the most challenging, tough situations to inspire others to not give up. I took my reader through my journey and the journey of my family of having been failed by the system. That was intended to protect me or help me through my journey, but falling through the cracks and how a child from 14 to 18 years old experiences while going to weekly therapy sessions paid for by the States Victim Compensation Program to help me address issues of mental health and the trauma that I experienced but falling through the cracks. The therapist, not caring about me. And how does a 14 year old child go from reaching out for help and the system stepping into help. But then all of a sudden being handed off into an abyss of desperation and turning to the streets to support my drug habit. My perpetrators, the individuals that caused harm to me, were drugging me, and I became a drug addict. So by the time I was 14. With the authorities got involved, I had to turn to the streets to support my drug habit. My therapist knew about the drug use. She knew that I would frequent these places where sexual exploitation and trafficking was common and did nothing. So at 18, I ended up homeless, sleeping under a bush in a park, Balboa Park here in San Diego. And the journey that I took from getting clean and sober at 18 to community college and walking the reader through the journey of this transformation of this young kid of color who was just angry and lost to getting into UC Berkeley and graduating from Harvard. And the book starts and ends at Harvard graduation. However, after Harvard came upenn and as you said, working both Federal and State Governments and philanthropy with large financial institutions and even become, a Real Estate Developer. I say all that and I'll summarize to inspire others that we are intelligent, we are resilient. People believed in me and I hope that the listeners feel that after this podcast, that we believe in them as well. That hope is real and anything really is possible. So thank you for that question. I hope I answered it.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:04:58:
That was beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. I just saw your TED Talk . And I remember feeling like your book, your Memoir is titled, I'm Not Broken, but there's this, like, we're not broken. Uh, message that you are helping us see that as survivors we are not broken. And we go through our journeys and wow, are they, you know, kind of roller coasters. And we face, we've experienced injustice, literally. And we bring that lived experience to the endeavors that we take forward, as part of our work in the world going forward. So I appreciate you so much for sharing your story so poignantly and vividly, and really the book helped my healing journey. The way you shared about yours made me have to explore my own journey and heal more deeply. So I deeply appreciate that. I remember you sharing with me one time in one of our talks about your Mexican and indigenous heritage and the spiritual wisdom that you have inherited that was part of your healing journey and part of how you're seeing your future. So if you want to share any of that, I'd love to have our listeners see that layer of you.
Jesse Leon - 00:06:26:
First, thank you. Thanks for saying what you said. It's not easy getting as vulnerable as we have. You also wrote your book and your career has been dedicated to helping others. And when I met you at the Brave Movement, when you were at the Brave Movement, you immediately welcomed me with open arms. And I feel like I made a friend. And thank you for mentioning the TED Talk as well. You know, my TEDx talk having just been released last week wasn't easy. And it's never easy to get up on a stage or even get as vulnerable and writing, a book. And sharing about some of these challenging topics that are rarely discussed among men. Let alone men of color. And so, but I knew that it wasn't about me and it wasn't about ego and it wasn't about trying to capitalize on trauma. And it was really important to inspire and hope in others. So just not give up because, there was reaching out to you, they're there's. It's, it's, it's hard to build these allies amongst each other sometimes and so I just really wanted that if I, if I were little Jesse if I were 16 or 17 because the book is not a why book. Um for like, you know 14, 15 year olds but if I were you know, 17 years old and going through the challenges that I was going through. And, and there was nothing out there for me there weren't stories that I could relate to. People didn't talk about these issues, and I would argue that they still don't. And so in my book, I also go back three generations on both sides of the family. And really wanted to talk about the intergenerational, not just the intergenerational trauma, but the intergenerational resilience. That the indigenous women whose blood runs through my veins were able to fight to keep their families together and seek opportunity and did not give up, just like my mom didn't give up. And so both sides of my family, I come from indigenous medicine women. And when I grew up as a child, in a Mexican household where we had access to our Abuelitas and our Tias, there were these, the synchronicities of native traditions with religion as well, but native traditions. And when I got clean and sober at 18, I was able to look back on my journey and see that there were these moments of magic of people coming into my life at exactly the right time. Oftentimes, as yourself, not coming in the package that I would have expected. You know, I met you and I'm like, oh my god, you've done X, Y and Z, but you're also a survivor and bouncing off of each other where you give me hope to not give up. So being open and my ancestors teaching me to be open to receiving messages of hope and new friendships, which oftentimes don't come in the package that I expect them in, being open to receive is not easy for a survivor, as you know. But once I got clean and sober and started on my journey of recovery, I was able to get back into my spiritual practices. I do native sweat lodge, Inipi, I do Temescal, I do a lot of native ceremony. Which is for me, what sometimes keeps me grounded. And I need to partner that for me, Jesse Leon. With my mental health modalities to have greater impact. And I've seen that impact in my life of being able to do EMDR, brain spotting, parts work, internal family systems, talk therapy with my therapists, but at the same time, having a community of of native men and women supporting me, and native, non-gender, binary, two spirit individuals in my world supporting me in ceremony also helps me kind of coexist and bridge the two together.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:11:02:
I think I just figured it out. I think I've always felt this, but I think I have words to say that I've always sensed you as a wisdom healer. And you have great healing power and energy. So I feel that from you and I appreciate that lineage and your own journey and your powerful presence, it's a healing force. I think the world needs that. And so I wanted to go a little political. Since the revolutionary optimism is revolutionary political ideas and politics is the competition of ideas. So I welcome an exploration of your ideas, you know? And so I'm going to give you a magic wand and I'm going to ask you to pretend that you are the president of the United States or you are running the show in whatever way and you can design and deliver priorities. I'd like to hear what your priorities are. Both at the local level, the community level, but also at the national level, any ideas. You've worked at all these levels. So I wanted to invite you to just kind of riff, you know, your ideas. From your journey and from your wisdom and from all your higher learning academically.
Jesse Leon - 00:12:26:
If I had a magic wand. It would have been that little Jesse. When he reached out for help at 14 years old. That the mechanisms and the protocols were set in place. Soon. Make sure that I succeeded. No child should have to be left to maneuver the mental health system or to even explain to their family by themselves without an adult present, a mental health advocate, a social worker, to explain to a parent that you're being sexually abused. As what happened in my case. And then once the system steps in, you're initially handed a stack. I was handed a stack of papers that my mom had to sign to get me into this, you know, victim witness type program, which would help me work on my issues of rage. And trauma as if it was really just up to this 14 year old kid. And then hand it off with no follow through, no check-ins with me or my family. And so one of my desires that if I had my own magic wand is create a framework that addresses, my dream would be that the framework was created, but there is no framework out there that really addresses the needs of men and boys, let alone men of color and two spirit LGBTQ Plus youth that are experiencing these issues. When appropriate, reaching out to the families, when appropriate, and I say that because no one reached out to my mom, no one reached out to me a month after therapy at 14 to say, how's it going? Do you like your therapist? Is she helping?
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:14:33:
Continuity of care, yeah.
Jesse Leon - 00:14:34:
There's no, yes, thank you, continuity of care, and over the course of post-intervention, and so that didn't happen. There were no wraparound services. According to the state I was a success, they just handed me off.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:14:53:
Yeah, I mean, I think that's all the response part of it, which is critical, the healing journey. So there does need to be continuity of care and different. I love that you took advantage of so many different services and practices and as part of your healing journey. Thank you for giving testimony to that and your commitment to your self care and your healing. You know, it’s like something that others should. Can, emulate as part of this journey that we're on. So I appreciate you sharing all that as well.
Jesse Leon - 00:15:25:
No, thank you. My dream would be that, that. There were resources available for a survivor-led foundation or philanthropic institution to fund the groups that exist out there that do adopt, implement, and implement. Live and breathe a culturally accessible, culturally humble. Multilingual gender affirming trauma informed care practices to help individuals heal from the... The experiences many of us go through. I would, as I said on my TED Talk , we need to destigmatize these issues so that men are able to talk about this without fear of judgment or ostracism by creating public awareness campaigns that features male survivors to break taboos, as well as we need to provide safe and sacred spaces for us to be able to do the work without fear of judgment or ostracism because it's extremely difficult to talk about. Two would be, incorporate survivors. There's a conference I'm speaking at this week in DC, the National Summit on Human Trafficking. I'll be presenting on a panel on my lived experience on how school districts can address these concerns and incorporate survivors. And I think more and more this is starting to happen, but male and two spirit LGBTQ Plus survivors and survivors of color must be at the table providing input as paid experts to government agencies, foundations, universities, mental health professionals, the criminal justice system, on how can we create long-term sustainable and inclusive solutions. Let me say that again. On how we can create long-term sustainable and inclusive solutions that incorporates the expertise and voices of survivors and lastly that there is follow-through. As you said that there is continuity and care, that there are post-intervention check-ins with survivors and when available our families to make sure that the resources we are receiving are helping and if we must be able to redirect survivors to the appropriate resources to make sure that we are receiving the appropriate gender-affirming, culturally competent, multilingual trauma-informed care.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:18:03:
Well said, well. Let's make that happen. I think that is a clear vision. I appreciate your clarity of vision. I think that you have an opportunity to shape how this response evolves, as we know. This issue is, the conspiracy of silence is starting to break down. We're talking about it. More survivors are speaking up and speaking out and being brave. And there are many more out there. I look in every room that I'm in and assume that maybe one in four people, men and women in that room, are survivors of childhood sexual violence. And that we have to understand that we have this opportunity to be a force for transformation here and get these kinds of responses developed and funded and implemented. And we can go to full scale with prevention, healing and justice to end childhood sexual violence. Why can't we do that? Of course we can.
Jesse Leon - 00:19:08:
There's a lot of resources being pumped into the... And rightly so, I do support it. There's a lot of resources going towards restorative justice and addressing the issues of individuals that cause harm. I see that, I recognize it. I am not someone that has caused harm on others. And when I look around, I'm supportive, extremely am. But what I see, or yet what I see, is that the resources that are going towards those of us that are on the healing journey as being, having experienced harm, the resources are limited and far and few in between. Mental health is expensive. Modalities, getting a therapist that is trained in different modalities to address trauma is very expensive. And so how can we make these resources available? What if these resources were available to you and I, Paul, when we were 18 or 19 and embarking on our journey in our career? Maybe our life would have been different. You know, but I definitely believe it's needed and we can be able to work on a restorative justice model so that there is a wraparound strategy for survivors and also individuals that have caused harm so that no child need to experience any form of sexual violence globally. Wow, that was good.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:20:47:
Yes. And may it be so in our time.
Jesse Leon - 00:20:51:
May it be so in our time.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:20:52:
And may we mobilize now to bring that into reality. I have really zero patience for the status quo of inaction and talk-festing. And when we have solutions and all we're missing is political will. The resources are there. It's this political will. And I think it's wrong that our government and our country allows children to be raped every single day all over this frigging country. I think we can do better. I know we can do better. I know we can bring forward prevention, healing, and justice programs at scale within five years if we had political will. So, you know, let's aim for that as well.
Jesse Leon - 00:21:41:
You just reminded me of a. I got a haircut on sunday. I'm speaking at this summit this week in DC, on human trafficking. The book has been able, and my TED Talk , to kind of redirect me in a different direction. I'm a consultant, I'm an Executive Coach, and my expertise is the Intersections of Philanthropy, housing, and placemaking. And I view housing as a human right and housing as health equity.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:22:18:
So you worked in the government on housing, right? You worked at the federal government level and at the state government level. Can you tell us about those experiences and how they were different or the same?
Jesse Leon - 00:22:29:
Definitely. And the story about the barbershop goes right into that. So I'm at the barbershop and a man walks in, military, and he recognizes me from the TED Talk that just came out. And he says, I really commend you, having the courage and the vulnerability to get up there and talk about such an important issue. It must not be easy. And he said, and I really hope people don't politicize this issue. I don't care what side of the aisle you sit on, but this issue needs to be addressed across political lines and regardless of political beliefs. All children are sacred. All children must be protected. I think he framed it perfectly. Because having, I moved to dc and worked for hud. Managing one of their largest grant programs and had the privilege. I'll say privilege. Of knowing that a lot of my friends that I went to the Kennedy School of Government with at Harvard were Appointees in the Administration. I was not, but I was a career, but was representing hud in cross agency strategies to make sure that if there was a grant going to a city around education and there was a grant going to a city for housing and another grant on environmental impacts that these grants at least were coordinated to have. But then from one day to the next, the administration changed. And you saw it in DC. It was really, it was real. It was, I lived by the waterfront in DC, and all of a sudden I had to walk to work, and the demographic shifted so quick. Being able to see the drastic shift in government and ideologies when one day I am respected and valued as an American Citizen who comes from a mexican immigrant family along the US Mexico border, who is a survivor of trafficking and childhood sexual abuse, who happens to one day the messaging of not being wanted and you don't belong here. And then leaving the federal government because I didn't, I just didn't, my values and my with the new leadership and went to work for a foundation for a year in Colorado. And then I went to work for housing in the State of Florida. And I started the day before the elections. I thought Florida was gonna have its first black democratic governor. And it was pretty exciting. But that individual lost and another governor won. And the rhetoric was once again, I don't belong. And even though I'm an American citizen. But, I come from an immigrant family along the US Mexico border. And my family struggled to get here. And we are responsible members of society that pay taxes and we're active in our community. To all of a sudden be a part of working under the rhetoric that's anti-LGBT, anti-Immigrant. And I just couldn't do it. But I wanted to finance the first ever LGBT senior housing project in the state of florida. And once that deal was financed and closed, we had a $2.4 million gap. And once we identified some philanthropic institutions to fill that gap for LGBT senior housing. Once that deal was closed, I was out.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:26:36:
So you are a healer of action. You go beyond your own healing journey and healing those around you, but you take action at a statewide level and a national level. So I really appreciate that part of your, of yourself that you do.You just do that. That's just who you are.
Jesse Leon - 00:27:00:
Thank you. No, but you do it, right? We have to take action. And we have to be able to learn how to work across party lines, regardless of-
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:27:08:
I totally agree with that. I am a strong proponent of interpartisan transformation. The work that I did on the president's plan, the emergency plan for aids relief, PEPFAR. That was a cross-partisan movement that lasted for 20 years through 10 congresses and four presidents. Only now that bipartisan dynamic is breaking down a bit, but we had 20 good years of the most impactful initiative since the Marshall plan is what people say internationally. I don't know if that's true, but yeah. So I agree with you on that totally. And I wanted to ask you one last question, which is, the show is about revolutionary optimism, which is something that I have, and it's highly contagious. And I have to generate it for myself every single day, because I do sometimes get despairing and hopeless. So as I really know, deep in my heart, you are a robust, world-class revolutionary optimist. What do you do when you have one of those days, or one of those weeks, or a period of time in your life where you're despairing and hopeless? How do you navigate through it? How do you pass through that narrow place into your full self? Because I think ultimately, you're human, we're all human. We want to learn from each other about how to go about that. How do you do that?
Jesse Leon - 00:28:47:
Let me first keep it real, real simple for myself. And I say this for myself, because I will, tend to want to complicate it as much as possible, whether intellectually or even spiritually. I must be open to what the universe is presenting to me, and being open to having conversations with individuals that will oftentimes, also challenge me. During those times. Meaning. Calling you when I'm having a tough day. And you, knowing okay, Jesse's having a moment. Listen through with creative inquiry. Um, pull yourself out of this situation. Have me look at a different perspective and talk me off the ledge sometimes. And for me, I think the key was right there, is having a shift in perspective or perception. Some people say miracles are a shift in perception for me. And once my perception starts to shift, I allow myself to be open to hearing messages from individuals that may or may not come within the package that I expect it to be in to help me shift that perspective. Helps me get through one more day. I have been blessed that I have had people come into my life at exactly the right time, even when I didn't want them to, what I call moments of magic that have taught me to continue to be open to those moments of magic in my life. So that I've been able to. Acquire a beautiful array of individuals, my internal board of directors that I reach out to because I feel safe with them. But that took time to build. And I can say, hey, it's 11 o'clock at night or you will sleep. Do you have a moment to talk? I can't sleep, my head won't stop. I've tried praying, I've tried meditating, I burned some sage, I've tried to get in my zone to relax, I'm doing breathing exercises, I just need to talk with somebody and hear myself talk it out. And a lot of people don't have that. And so I am navigating through the difficult times. Has sometimes been speaking on a stage when you don't want to. Because you already feel that you're so overwhelmed with everything going on in life around you, but you're gonna go speak at an event. And then somebody walks up to you and says, I also experienced something similar that you didn't have, never told anybody. You just gave me hope today to give up. I'm having a hard time at work because of X, Y, and Z. And I feel that I'm starting to relive all these situations. I feel that people don't see me. And when people tell me that they feel seen. It brings me back to purpose. See, for too long, I would feel that my emotions would take over when I would be in a situation where I would have an overwhelmingly incomprehensible response to a situation where I felt threatened. And because my emotions and my reasoning were out of bounds. What would happen if in those situations, which oftentimes occurs to a lot of young men of color, men and women of color, where I would lash out? With an anger and rage at the most inopportune time where maybe there was a cop around and all of a sudden my life takes a completely different path because no one has ever worked, no one worked with me on how to deescalate my emotions, how to de-escalate conflict or how to do it for each other. And I'll say this one last time. I often wonder, do people see me in the workplace prior to my book coming out or being a TEDx Speaker? I would walk into the executive boardroom at a financial institution to discuss, you know, multi-million dollar grants, and I'd open the door. And on the other side is, predominantly white executives and business suits. Well, 95% of my perpetrators or individuals that caused me sexual harm were men in suits. And so you don't know what, that, if you don't know me what it takes for me to navigate through it from opening that door, looking in and being like. And that millisecond of a moment that I have to shift my perception and walk in with my head high, I belong here, I got this, I have a purpose, at the same time having to work through my internal turmoil to suit up and show up and be the best person I need to be for others. And it's never easy, and you've gone through it. And so how do I navigate through it? I've had to learn how to spell it.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:34:26:
You're magical. You bring magic to your life's journey. You create camaraderie and you have a support network and it's bi-directional and you know, that's you create that network in that field around you. It's magical. And so, I want to thank you for your public leadership. And for sharing your journey and for being on the journey and for being a voice of the voiceless, you know? You're one of those people who, uh, is speaking for all those boys and girls out there now who are, who are seeking relief and healing. So thank you for your boldness and your bravery. And your valor.
Jesse Leon - 00:35:13:
No, thank you, Dr. Paul, for all you do. And I would love to ask you, how do you navigate through it?
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:35:22:
Several things come to mind, you know, I... I had to create revolutionary optimism as a way of living. And I did that as an antidote to my own sense of despair and hopelessness. Because I really dig in and I really like, face the suffering. Like I worked in the dying fields in Africa. I went to the malnutrition wards where the children were, the babies were dying in their mother's arms. And I faced the ultimate suffering of humanity. And then I had my own traumatic life experience as well. And so I just had to like, come up with something as a coping strategy. And I also make commitments. When I'm committed to something, I am more able to be revolutionarily optimistic. So like I am committed to ending childhood sexual violence. I am committed to the American idea of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for liberty and justice for all. Like those are ideas that I am committed to. And I think that serves me well. When I practice what I preach and I live by my commitments, my life kind of goes in the right direction. So-
Jesse Leon - 00:36:40:
Tell it, tell it.
Dr. Paul Zeitz - 00:36:42:
Jesse, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I appreciate you more than you know.
Jesse Leon - 00:36:49:
Well, thank you. You've been a friend, an ally. Support on this journey and we've only met each other, we only met about a year ago. And I met you through your work with the Brave Movement, and we stayed in touch, and you are one of those people I turn to. And you know this, when I feel that I need another male survivor perspective to just let me know that, hey, you got this, Jesse, you're not broken. You wrote about not being broken. You got this one more day. Um, has been a part of the answers to my prayers to not feel so alone on this journey and, and helping me with my purpose to raise awareness and create changes in policies to help others survive, not to survive, help others thrive. So thank you Paul for, for having me on the Revolutionary Optimism Podcast, but most importantly, food. For being a part of the movement that has helped me find a space and an ally that I can talk to. Thank you.