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Two longtime music pros (Sensei & Fatboi) go deep on what makes music great. A podcast for music producers, artists, and fans.
Fatboi is a Multi-platinum, Grammy nominated, award winning producer whose credits include: Camoflauge, YoungBoy Never Broke Again, Gucci Mane, Young Jeezy, Rocko, Shawty Redd, Flo Rida, Bow Wow, Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, Juvenile, Yung Joc, Gorilla Zoe, OJ Da Juiceman, 8Ball & MJG, Jeremih, 2 Chainz, Nicki Minaj, Bobby V, Ludacris and Yo Gotti, Monica, Zay Smith, TK Kravitz, Future.
Sensei Hollywood (a.k.a. Dan Marshall) formerly an instructor and chair of the Audio Production program at the Art Institute of Atlanta, is an accomplished musician, producer, engineer who's performed on and engineered multi--platinum records with Big Boi, Outkast, Killer Mike, Chamillionaire, Carlos Santana, Mary J. Blige, Snoop Dogg, Ron Isley, Lil Wayne, Trillville, Monica, and more...
Sensei (01:05)
So hey, it's LevelsToThis. I am Sensei. I've got my partner Fatboi here. Today, I would like to talk about ⁓ this big lawsuit between the police and Sting over the number one song in the BMI catalog, Every Breath You Take.
Fatboi (01:25)
Number one in BMI?
Sensei (01:26)
Number one as of uh, 2019 I think is when they said so I think that still holds up but it's yeah So it's the number one song on the bmi catalog It's over 40 years old. Obviously it's from last century But it was a number. It was the police's only number one hit Oops, and uh, it was the police's only number one hit really the only record only number one on their biggest selling record synchronicity from
Fatboi (01:45)
came out.
Sensei (01:56)
1983.
Fatboi (01:57)
That's the police's only number one hit?
Sensei (02:01)
Yeah, and apparently it accounts for somewhere between one quarter to one third of Sting's music publishing ⁓ royalties. That one song.
So after 42 years, Andy Summers and Stuart Copeland could not come to an arrangement with Sting about the royalties on the song. He's listed as the only writer,
Fatboi (02:26)
Yeah, nah, nah, nah, cuz, cuz, no, nah, nah, Cuz I, I have, I have my own thoughts on that. Cuz.
Sensei (02:34)
Let's hear them.
And then we're going to listen to the song. I got a couple of good versions. But what do you think about the song?
Fatboi (02:41)
For one, I love that record. It's one of my favorite childhood records to this day, anytime I hear that.
I have nostalgia, it's just going back to discovering, you know, MTV, you know, all those records at that time, man, you know, MTV, the whole shifting in music.
Sensei (03:07)
They play that video all the time. The black and white videos for like a film noir kind of look. Very minimalist actually.
Fatboi (03:15)
It was, like the song. The song is that.
Sensei (03:20)
Kind
of mysterious like a lot of videos from that era were like taking line by line to the song this one was just like the guys in a jazz club playing and there's like a guy wiping windows, you know, just kind of kind of abstract, you know
Fatboi (03:33)
It makes sense to how the song sounds. I mean, the arrangement of the song is sneaky, like Billie Jean is. Billie Jean is a minimalist song. It's not a lot in it, but the arrangement in it makes it complex.
Sensei (03:50)
or part of it.
Well, that's the key part of this discussion. Okay. So like, this is the heart of the dispute is basically the arrangement. ⁓ cause Sting had a demo of the song, which was very different than what came out on the other side. And apparently it was the subject of a lot of infighting between the police. did six weeks of working on this album and like literally came to blows.
They had to go get the Beatles producer George Martin to maybe intercede
Fatboi (04:28)
Why did everybody go to a beetle to calm a situation down?
Sensei (04:33)
They were at his studio in Montserrat. So it was George Martin's place. He wasn't the producer of the session, he was like, this is my place. He had a house on the hill or something. I heard an anecdote,
Fatboi (04:46)
It always seems like a Beatle got called to get into the dispute of some rockers. Hey, let's call a Beatle. That's only way we're going
Sensei (04:49)
⁓ dude.
George Martin knows something about resolving things between big egos, you know?
Fatboi (05:01)
That is true because
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that between Paul and, you know, Ringo was just like, I'm with who's ever winning the fight. I'm going with him.
Sensei (05:14)
Just let me sing my song about the octopus.
Fatboi (05:19)
But you know, between Paul and John, know, it's a...
Sensei (05:22)
And John, yeah.
Well, that's another three hour topic on this one. So, but here's the thing. The arrangement was key to this dispute. All right. So basically Sting had kind of a lame pop version of the song and he brought it to the guys and they were fighting over it. like, yeah, we don't want to even put this on the album. It stinks. It's just banal, whatever. And then Sting goes to Andy Summers, a guitar player. Well, just take and do your own thing with it. And
Fatboi (05:52)
Okay.
Sensei (05:54)
That signature guitar riff is a pretty key part of the song.
Fatboi (05:58)
That's my whole argument about this record. Because if that guitar player, the most memorable part of this song is that... Remember about that song. That's what makes me love it.
Sensei (06:11)
That arpeggio, right?
That guitar part is a hook, if not the hook of the song.
Fatboi (06:21)
the
whole thing, you know? I mean, if you come with a major contribution to the record, it needs to be compensated via publishing. Unless you did some other kind of agreement where, okay, pay me straight up and I'll stay off of the publishing and all that. But being that you're a group.
Sensei (06:50)
You're a band! You know, like...
Fatboi (06:51)
You're a band, my contribution, publishing typically was split down the middle with bands a lot of times. ⁓
Sensei (07:02)
time,
but many times famously not.
Fatboi (07:05)
That key got cut because they had what was called key guy. if that key got, which thing in the police is the key guy?
Sensei (07:13)
No argument, but... There's- you can't discount what the other two guys brought to the table on that.
Fatboi (07:20)
Especially like, okay, there's an argument with the drums, but even though the drums is in pocket for that, the two elements that you're listening to, number one is that guitar riff and how Sting is riding behind it. Okay, we get that. And then, you know, the drums are just in pocket. And then there's some, ⁓ the sneaky part of it that I love is
when the second verse comes in, there's this keyboard synth melody.
Sensei (07:58)
And there's like this one note piano ding.
Fatboi (08:01)
That's it. Well, that's what I mean. It's very simple. The sneaky stuff comes in throughout the song and it's like, you know, and then after that it stings singing. at the end, not necessarily, you know, he does his thing throughout the song, but what really captivated me on the song is him at the end and the stuff that he was doing.
Sensei (08:03)
Couple freaky things, yeah.
The outro kind of the vibe and yeah
Fatboi (08:31)
He ⁓ wasn't doing a whole lot of difficult stuff, but he was so in pocket with the melody. You know what saying? captures the vibe and it gives you a feeling. It's not what you're singing, it's how you sing it.
Sensei (08:43)
captures the vibe.
Right. Well,
that that's the key part. So the the master of that record is bigger than the song is the argument here. I think like the actual execution, the performance of that song is bigger than the song was. So therefore, perhaps the people that contributed to that vibe should participate in what's probably, you know, probably definitely a life changing amount of money.
at the end of their careers slash lives. The guys are in their seventies, you know.
Fatboi (09:24)
I get that part. ⁓ But I'm still looking at this like, man, we don't have this record like, cause that shit that you had in the beginning, it was cool. It was more about the lyrics that you wrote, but I brought it home on this guitar.
Sensei (09:47)
Well,
let's see, because I don't know if you ever heard it. I haven't heard this before today. would do a minimum lot of research. I found the demo. I haven't heard it. That's Sting prepared to show to the guys. So let me see if I can pull this up here. And maybe we'll have a listen and then we'll... ...the original. Alright, let me see if I can do this right here. Hang on one sec.
Fatboi (10:02)
If there's enough
Sensei (10:17)
Alright, can you see that?
Fatboi (10:20)
Got it.
Sensei (10:21)
Alright,
let's have a listen to Sting's original demo of Every Breath You Take as presented to the police before they recorded it.
Fatboi (10:30)
Speaking of, before you hit that, we need to do one of these to the demo of human nature too. That's a good one, yeah.
Sensei (10:39)
Bet, that would be a good one.
That's
a perfect one actually.
All right, so I'm going to pick it up here. Every Breath You Take Sting's demo.
a little different.
Fatboi (11:04)
Still a hit, still a hit, but not the...
It's a hit, still, but not the massive, massive hit. It's just a hit, regular hit right now. That's the demo.
Sensei (11:26)
Well, it's pretty typical 80s ballad here Like it doesn't say the police does it?
Fatboi (11:34)
No. And it's a little faster. I like it they slowed it down.
Sensei (11:43)
That's different.
change that chord a little.
Kind of sounds like one of those organs you'd get at the store with the auto rhythm section. ⁓
Fatboi (12:12)
Sounds like the guy ⁓ panhandling for change
Sensei (12:19)
With the monkey the tin cup They don't do those anymore I still have this saw this bridge this bridge is excellent
Fatboi (12:23)
Yeah
Sensei (12:32)
So he had definitely had a vision for this.
Fatboi (12:35)
He
had the idea. He had the idea so I get that. Okay.
Sensei (12:48)
He added that part, right? That's the part you were talking about. So he had a vision for the vocals.
Fatboi (12:49)
Do
Like there's string arrangements right here. Do, do, do, do, do. And note that that's where the emotion comes in, in this part right here.
⁓ can't you see?
Sensei (13:15)
That
seventh hits different on this one. I don't like it as much, I have to say.
Fatboi (13:26)
And then right here. ⁓ That's that's in there. It just man, I feel that.
Sensei (13:32)
Alright, we're missing that part.
Now as you mentioned it, Stuart pretty much stuck to the... He stayed on the plan with these drums when he executed. Kept it in the pocket like you saying. Very atypical for Stuart Copeland. He's the signature doing too much on the hi-hat guy, like all the drum corps drummers like.
Fatboi (13:58)
Yeah, he-he didn't-yeah, didn't- Yep, which is kept it in-
man, even this part, like, so the song is there, Sting had the whole idea. And even at the end right here, this was, this is big right here.
Ooooo ⁓
Sensei (14:26)
Wait, wait, wait, I want to hear if it comes in.
I'm
curious to see if he does the hoo-hoo.
Fatboi (14:35)
I doubt he does it in the demo. It would come right here. Nope, he didn't do it. and then it stays straight.
Sensei (14:47)
I did it. All right. So thoughts, what are your thoughts? let me call it. Let me put it. What are your thoughts having heard that for the first time? That's the first time I heard it all the way through.
Fatboi (14:59)
Yeah, ⁓ the song was there.
Sensei (15:03)
The star was there.
Fatboi (15:04)
The song was there. Now it just needs to be, okay. This is Michael Jackson's demo and then he took it to Quincy and Quincy turned it into what it became. So, because the hit, the idea, the hit is there. ⁓ Mike would bring the ideas to these songs to Quincy. Quincy would add the string arrangements. He'd add the horns.
Sensei (15:31)
So this is definitely a diamond in the rough.
Fatboi (15:33)
Yes,
this is a diamond in the rough. Me as a producer, if I hear this record, I'm thinking, oh, this is big. This is big. We just gotta take it there.
Sensei (15:43)
The
producer on this one is Hugh Padham. It's the guy that produced this record.
Fatboi (15:47)
Yeah,
so when when when when Hugh heard this record, Hugh was thinking, this is this is huge. But we need something. We need a pad. In this case, the guitar is a pad.
Sensei (16:02)
It's more than a pad though. It's moving. It's doing this arpeggiating thing and really here's the thing. This is one of the I don't know. It's gotta be one of the top 50 guitar riffs of all time. You hear that you ⁓ might you might you might hear a kid actually playing this in guitar center. Maybe an old guy playing this in guitar center today.
Fatboi (16:22)
I got it in top 10. Yeah. All time recognized.
Sensei (16:26)
People
around the world can recognize the first four notes of that guitar.
Fatboi (16:30)
I mean, I mean, but, even, even the drums coming in, that first hit, you already know what's coming behind that. All I gotta do is hear that snare and I already know the sound of it because you still gotta, you still gotta create that sound.
Sensei (16:55)
That space. Here's the thing to me, then we should listen to the actual song now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before we get into it, like that whole record, Synchrony C, still holds up. But what I notice about it, because I was playing it for my teenage daughters, like into like the 80s stuff, and she really digs this record and it still holds up 40 something years later. But it's it's a cold, it's a cold record. And what I mean by that, you know, you say records got warps to it.
Fatboi (16:56)
So.
Sensei (17:23)
There's kind of an absence of mid range. There's not a lot of like rock guitars that yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a, it's a high, it's kind of smiley face curve to the EQ to the whole thing. It's as weird as one of the first digital, you know, uh, digitally released records, one of the first CDs. mean, we got to it in context. CDs were brand new in 1983. No, not everyone had CDs back then. was still cassettes and albums and LPs. Um, so it was kind of a,
cold sounding record in general and but that led to clear tones and clean production I think or is a result of the clean production and clear tones. ⁓
Fatboi (18:05)
everything started chasing the sonics of Thriller. everybody, because they thought Bruce was doing something different, you know, they didn't know what they were using, what they used. No, it's just the technique he used with basically what we do in Dawes is do the two track, record to the two track and then come back in. And that's all he to keep the tape clean. But this record right here, they're not even using
10 tracks at most. And that's if you do stereo.
Instrument wise, mean, instrument wise, no more than 10 tracks. Well, you do have drums.
Sensei (18:55)
Yeah, so there's probably like 60 But but like just the amount of elements very small number of elements I would say compared to say like yes, 901 25 or something was a similar era record with like a million elements, but tell you what let's listen let's listen to the original now and compare and contrast our our Take on it here. Let me get the sharing here boom And we'll go check out the the video to over talk
Fatboi (18:56)
Yeah, yeah, 16.
Sensei (19:25)
then it's
Fatboi (19:25)
You know, it's all so mixed and mastered. So, so, so that was a.
Sensei (19:29)
Well, there is that. So ⁓
yeah, so let's see what we got here. Get ready for your snare hit.
There he goes.
Fatboi (19:39)
I already know what was as soon as comes on.
Sensei (19:44)
Alright, but the first thing, that arpeggio! That's it!
Fatboi (19:50)
You already know what this song is.
Sensei (19:52)
That's a signature sound.
Fatboi (20:01)
And it had, the guitar has, it has that 80s effect that I ask you to do on a lot of stuff.
Sensei (20:08)
Finally
got it dialed in, that chorusy, slappy delay kind of thing. Like bossy E2, it might have been a space echo or some combo there.
Fatboi (20:14)
It was a
Hmm
Look how young he looks.
Sensei (20:26)
Hey man, happens to the best of us. There's your strings.
Fatboi (20:43)
I'ma point out the part I'm talking about too.
Sensei (20:45)
Okay.
Now that I'm watching, I think I've been fingering this riff wrong for 40-something years. He's working a lot harder than I ever did on that.
Fatboi (20:53)
The guitar
Then it gets bigger.
Sensei (21:08)
There's that line you were talking about.
Here's the one-note piano solo.
Fatboi (21:21)
Watch this.
Sensei (21:27)
One note, or two notes maybe.
Fatboi (21:34)
You hear that one straight note?
Do do do do do
He's too in pocket. He wants to do more like most drummers did. Now, here's the part coming up right here. Listen in the background with this chord progression.
Subtle, just powerful.
The Sims.
Sounds like a stalker record today.
Sensei (22:38)
Basically. That won't fly in 2025.
Fatboi (22:42)
Ah,
2025. Yeah, they looking down on this one.
Sensei (22:55)
Stewart's wagging that snare drum like he's pissed. Yeah. They all play the basics.
Fatboi (23:00)
I'm on with it. Right.
⁓ That part right there? For Sting, that's a lot!
Sensei (23:11)
Hahaha
Yeah, buddy.
Fatboi (23:21)
But you feel it though. You feel that.
Sensei (23:23)
Yes sir. Alright.
Alright so now, now we've seen the OG version. What are your thoughts on that compared to the demo?
Fatboi (23:36)
I mean, it's there. I mean, it's there. ⁓ Pretty much.
Same as human nature, human nature was there. It was there. They didn't have to do much, you know, they, of course they added the parts in that guitar part, took it over the top. Same with this record right here. The guitar, the arpeggio guitar takes it over the top. Yeah, yeah, you got the, to make it bigger.
You know, you got the strings, you got the scents in there, subtle scents. And you gotta add the story to guitars in certain parts to make it grow.
Sensei (24:24)
But those are typical parts. What's unique about this song?
Fatboi (24:26)
Hell yeah.
The arpeggio. The arpeggio. The arpeggiated guitar is the uniqueness of the record. Everything else was there. Something else needed to be added to make it bigger, to take it over the top, and that's what it was. But if you're leaving this to me, because obviously, I mean, you got the bass part down because you are a bass player, put it in my hands and let me see what I can do with it.
You know, just like Quincy. Quincy didn't try to come up with the guitar line for Human Nature. He sent it over to see, no, you do what you do, let me see what you come up with and boom. That's the part of Human Nature besides the arpeggiated synth that stands out to me. So in this record, you don't have overpowering synths. The top...
line is the arpeggiated guitar and that's what the, it's the whole movement of the record. Drums just got to stay in pocket. Synths and strings and the piano, everything just complements the guitar and the bass line. And there's the song.
Sensei (25:52)
Well, here's the thing. If I'm the lawyer for Andy Summers and Stuart Copeland, Sue and Sting, over the song, I would probably play this song as part of my case. All right? Hang on.
Let me get my share in here, screen. And ⁓ you'll see why in just a second.
Fatboi (26:18)
⁓ yes, absolutely.
Sensei (26:23)
What elements did Diddy decide to borrow from that song to add its vibe to this song?
Fatboi (26:31)
If anybody's sampling this record, you're sampling it because of the guitar.
Sensei (26:41)
Pretty much the whole record here.
Fatboi (26:43)
It's the whole thing.
Sensei (26:45)
But yeah, famously, he pays K- Sting like 5,000 bucks a day for royalties for this song. But if I'm Andy Summers, I might have a little to do with that.
Fatboi (26:52)
Slap the dope.
I'm
trippin' about this! I'm trippin'! I'm trippin'! Like, come on, man. They didn't sample Sting, they sampled the police!
This is a, this, okay, Sting, you wrote the majority of that record, I'll give you that on that front. This is your, this is your brainchild. But, the police went into this, we went into the studio.
Sensei (27:29)
You can't have the song without Andy's part.
Fatboi (27:31)
You can't say you can't separate either one of them you can't separate either one of them from I mean because The drums are doing more than just the simple thing that the drum machine did
Sensei (27:45)
⁓ Sound
of the drum even though he's Very simple. He's pissed about not getting to play what he wanted to play. You can hear it in the snare
Fatboi (27:48)
The sound of it.
I mean, so it's, it's ⁓ And then, and then who... The... The distorted guitar arrangements. And who came with that? Right. Is that all stinging? I'm pretty sure he let... He let the guitar player be the guitar player. No, no, no.
Sensei (28:15)
I mean,
that was literally, apparently, what happened. He said, go put your own thing on this song and make it your own. And they got their number one hit. Their record went to number one for like, I don't know, four or five months. And now, 30 years later or 25 years later, Diddy samples this makes a huge hit out of it. And he invites Sting to sing on it at the Grammys.
Fatboi (28:21)
I can't believe you gonna get
Sensei (28:44)
I don't think he invited Andy Summer to come play his guitar on the Grammys.
Fatboi (28:50)
He should have. He should have.
Sensei (28:55)
saying
Fatboi (28:56)
Just like everybody invites Slash to play, he should have been invited to play this too.
Sensei (29:01)
Fatboi (29:07)
I mean, cause this record was huge too. Because of that though. Because of the sample.
Sensei (29:14)
sample is the guitar part.
Fatboi (29:16)
This was another record that everybody in the hood knew. Now I'm not talking about the punk version, I'm talking about the police version. Exactly.
Sensei (29:25)
That's why he picked it.
That's one of those crossover giant records.
Fatboi (29:32)
Because, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a... ⁓
It's soft rock, it's pop, it's R &B, it's gospel, it's blues, it's all the elements of every genre wrapped into one. But minimal though!
Sensei (30:03)
There's still only like four or five elements in this even though there's some vocal staff. There's a string line in this version but nothing crazy.
Fatboi (30:14)
I mean, Sting even with the riff at the end, that's his version of something Michael Jackson would do. You know what I'm That's his version of
Sensei (30:34)
No, no, I feel you. I'm buying that.
Fatboi (30:37)
So it's, it's, it's, and you gotta know them being from England.
They're influenced by blues and R &B anyway.
Sensei (30:53)
Well, here's the thing. Let me set a little context for this. I was really into the police when I was younger, know, kind of back working back or something. But their main influence like punk and reggae slash ska. Like you hear way, way more in the earlier like reggae. is getting down, reinventing like reggae beats into a punk context and really changed on this record. They kind of toned them down.
Fatboi (31:09)
Yep.
Sensei (31:21)
in a lot of ways, especially on that particular record. That's why he's like... Because all my drummer friends from like the 80s, mid 80s, they're like, Stuart Copeland, playing all this crazy stuff on the hi-hat and like syncopating across bars and never playing like a normal drum part. That's a direct Stuart Copeland influence. That dude influenced so many drummers from the 80s.
Fatboi (31:46)
And you know, this record came out right at that.
Right at that crossbar where less is more, drum machines are starting to take over and we're using the drum machines because the drum machine would do exactly what I wanted to do. And it's not going to say I'm a drummer. I need to do something. I got to do something to let you know that I can play.
So this is at that part where things were starting to change. Drum machines were taking over. I mean, one of the key drummers, the biggest drummers of that time, Phil Collins, even went to drum machines and he's a drummer. But he knew on some of his songs like, yeah, less is more. And I'm gonna let a drum machine play half of this record.
Sensei (32:59)
It's like two thirds of that song go by before he comes in with that iconic drum fill.
Fatboi (33:05)
It's It's
Sensei (33:21)
Yeah, yeah. No, for real.
He was just a drummer in this weird little art band called Genesis. He had a beard. The whole thing was in the back. He even the same. He was and like, and then when that happened, he, he got at least as big as sting. If not bigger, Phil Collins went from the back row as a songwriter, as a singer, man, ⁓ because perhaps
Fatboi (33:32)
Nah, wasn't. Yup. I didn't know Phil Collins could sing!
Yeah, all of that,
Genesis was never that big.
Sensei (33:53)
because he was thinking bigger than a drummer.
Fatboi (33:55)
Thinkin' bigger than a That is a fact.
Sensei (33:58)
Whereas the issue with the police here, and it's also kind of what made them great, but it's also what made them pull apart is that creative tension between the three elements. Like Andy Summers is kind of an older jazz dude, kind of forced into this punk band because of opportunity. Sting was this like smooth, real smart, intellectual. He used to be a teacher, you know, jazz bassist. This band was actually Stuart Copeland's brainchild. He recruited Sting.
So this is why it's never really sat right. There's decades of conflict behind this lawsuit.
Fatboi (34:30)
soon.
If, ⁓ besides Phil Collins, because Phil Collins understood it. He understood the assignment as far as where music was going, less is more, is becoming more, drum machines are about to be the big thing. And I'm a drummer, so I do like drum machines. Let me hear me on a drum machine without the fills and stuff. But if ⁓ most drummers,
would have took the attitude of Ringo Starr. Hey, I'm just here to play the part. You know, Ringo, and I'm sure Ringo had his input on a lot of things, but for the most part, whatever the record called for, that's what Ringo did. He never tried to do too much. He just fit in pocket with the record. And every now and then he'll do a, you know, but.
Sensei (35:28)
once in a while something to keep you on your toes. I'll go even further than that. will say Ringo Starr and Stuart Copeland are the opposite ends of the spectrum. Total, right?
Fatboi (35:39)
polar
opposites. And that's why I brought Ringo up. Ringo is, know, if drummers, most drummers would have took Ringo's attitude of, I'm just going to stay in pocket with whatever the guitar and the bass guy do.
Sensei (35:42)
Alright, exactly.
Fatboi (35:59)
I keep my job this way.
Sensei (36:01)
Well, most is doing a lot of work here. I would say, and because my experience playing the band was around this time after this record came out, most of the drummers I knew were in the Stuart Copeland camp and they were playing too much. They put the reins on.
Fatboi (36:12)
They wanted
to play and you know, with Phil Collins, Phil Collins did his playing with Genesis and when it came Phil Collins, and again, going back to the record, ⁓ he saw what that record did. He was like, that record exploded. And he was like, okay.
Sensei (36:17)
Can't blame him, you know? But, you know...
Fatboi (36:39)
And it was a happy accident in that record ⁓ in the studio with the gated reverb. It wasn't supposed to be on. ⁓ And they ended up having that gated reverb effect on the drums. And now you got this new sound that was created that everybody started copying.
Sensei (37:01)
I
think it was like the talkback mic for the SSL and they're like, oh, that sounds pretty cool. And compressed the room tone and like, we should do that. And then gated it. And that became like the sound of 80s drums.
Fatboi (37:13)
80s drums right there, one of those happy accidents that created a sound. So, know, Phil, when Phil's, and I remember, man, I'm a little kid. I'm a little kid watching Miami Vice, and I don't remember what was going on in the episode, what that episode was about, but I do know when they were looking for the criminal, that's when that record came on.
Sensei (37:39)
I mean, I'm seeing pink and blue and flamingos and speed boats and cavalry cheese with cowboy boots and...
Fatboi (37:47)
I just remember, yeah, all of that. And when I heard that record, man, I remember the next day at school, all the kids were talking about, they weren't talking about Miami Vice so much as we were talking about that song, that Phil Collins song. And I even,
That's one of the first ⁓ rock pop albums that I had my pops buy for me because of that song.
Sensei (38:30)
Another genre crosser.
Fatboi (38:33)
And
man, that's another record everybody in the hood knows. Because of Miami Vice, but still, it put Phil Collins on everybody's radar differently. Because like I was saying on the Ozzy episode, ⁓ Genesis was one of those groups that you had an uncle, he knew who Genesis was. He listened to Genesis.
Sensei (38:53)
Yeah.
Fatboi (39:03)
⁓ Genesis didn't translate across the whole hood like that.
Sensei (39:08)
No, no, they're definitely left field. Yeah, but they're smash hits caught, caught, you know, kind of broke through though.
Fatboi (39:15)
They
broke through, but everybody knew what was going on with this. Feel it in the air,
Sensei (39:23)
Yeah, no, what was it that and then there was another one he did no no before that ⁓ Ballad no, it was a ballad. Well, hold on. I'm thinking. ⁓ No, no, just see how many smash it's just yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crap hold on. I gotta look this up now ⁓
Fatboi (39:39)
One more night.
before
lot of them.
Sensei (39:51)
It's gonna bother me and one that's how many smash hits this good had won't
Fatboi (39:56)
One
more night Phil didn't play on that record. It's just an 808 drum machine.
Sensei (40:03)
no, it was a soundtrack before ⁓
Against all odds! Against all odds!
Fatboi (40:12)
⁓
Sensei (40:16)
was a huge record. It was like the, you know, the eighth grade dance, know, slow dance record, but that was huge. I think that blew them up. Miami vice put them in the zeitgeist. ⁓
Fatboi (40:28)
You guys
threw him in there and he went crazy after that.
Sensei (40:31)
Yeah, and they're kind of tying it with the Scarface. Miami was just kind of hot in the age. That whole vibe.
Fatboi (40:35)
All, yeah.
He, you know, he had that. I would say.
Phil Collins kind of his sound. man, can't think of the producer's name, but that sound that he used on Scarface, it seems like Phil Collins kind of ⁓ ran with that sound, cause that was the sound of Miami.
Sensei (41:10)
I can tell we got a whole nother episode worth of stuff in Phil Collins in Miami vice I think we put a pin in this one. I'll get prepared for some samples But to your point, let me look this up So you were saying about that whole Phil Collins gated drum drum machine vibe that was happening in the 80s So the police stay at stings insistence. ⁓ Right, right, right. We got yeah. No, that's an episode. So so staying
Fatboi (41:33)
See you
Sensei (41:39)
was picking up on that thing you're talking about what the drum machines and he was never really happy with how synchronicity came out, even though it was like the biggest hit. So they did a re issue, kind of a remix. Let me see if I can find this police and Stuart Copeland hated this. Um, a reissue or whatever here. Let me, let me get this up. Um,
Don't stand so close to me every breath you take the singles. Okay, let me. So this is another song that was huge for the police, but Sting insisted on doing a remix of this. Let's see. Like on a drum machine. And it sort of like led to the breakup of the police, I think. All right, let me see if I can find this thing.
Fatboi (42:11)
Don't on stand...
Ha ha!
Sensei (42:37)
Damn, so-
me 86. And that the original one of that definitely had that whole reggae vibe that we're talking about that Stuart did. But here here here's the ⁓ here's the the 86 remix record. Let's see.
You see if you pick it up when I'm putting down here. ⁓
There we go.
Like what is this? This is not the police. It's like a movie soundtrack.
Fatboi (43:41)
That's Prince Little Red Corvette ⁓ Bring it Bring it back Yeah, yeah from where it break ⁓
Sensei (43:53)
It sounded pretty dumb.
Wow! I don't think I heard that before.
Fatboi (44:11)
Bring it back, bring it back one more time.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's...
Yeah, he probably he probably was inspired by Little Red Corvette probably inspired that.
Sensei (44:34)
That's interesting. I hadn't heard that take on it. ⁓
Fatboi (44:38)
or Betty Davis eyes.
She wants
I hear all kind of, I hear all kind of, I hear all kind of influences.
Sensei (44:53)
Now I definitely hear Andy Summers doing his ambient guitar thing and have him stretching out but...
but they didn't do the course you guitar but it's like a
Fatboi (45:09)
I also hear Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis influence in there.
Sensei (45:15)
⁓
Fatboi (45:21)
Okay, now we back to the police. Right here.
someway.
Alright, okay now it flips back into some inspired stuff that he wanted to try. That's what it sounds
Sensei (45:40)
Yeah, and like, but here's the thing. Let me find actually the original and you tell me what has changed.
Fatboi (45:50)
you
Sensei (46:11)
Way creepier of a record.
got a little sinister synthesizer thing guitars are sneaking in there listen how much more the drums are doing now Stuart's actually playing the drums here
while that hi-hat work.
Fatboi (46:38)
I'm teaching the subject
Sensei (46:41)
Again, another Andy Summers signature guitar line that I was missing from that other remix.
Fatboi (46:49)
and the drums are reggae
Sensei (46:55)
Definitely very good. He flipped the beat around the way that you hit that the in for
Fatboi (47:08)
It's brighter for one. It's brighter.
Sensei (47:10)
Definitely brighter.
Less elements. More room for the drums and the guitar.
Fatboi (47:21)
Yeah, it-it-it-it-it-it-it-this is Reggae'd Out! ⁓ doom, doom, ⁓
Sensei (47:28)
And it's funkier because of it.
Fatboi (47:30)
Yeah, it's Reggae'd out right here. Yep, and it's funkier because of it.
Sensei (47:39)
That's why that 86 version flopped and this was a big hit for them.
Fatboi (47:43)
Yo.
And then it breaks out in the rough.
Sensei (47:51)
but it's still got that offset reggae vibe but it's back to rock driving
Fatboi (47:58)
Yeah, it's not driving the beat, but it's in there,
Back to reggae with the drums.
And that guitar, that guitar is driving it too!
Sensei (48:14)
Right, that's- you can't have that song without that riff.
Fatboi (48:16)
Okay.
Sensei (48:21)
Not this way, anyway.
Fatboi (48:25)
And then he was smart enough to follow.
Sensei (48:36)
With the vocal, yeah
Fatboi (48:39)
Now ask the questions which came first. Well there was an 86 version so obviously the vocals came first so he just copied that cadence. Back to reggae.
I like the flip-flop is dope. I remember this record too.
Sensei (49:00)
Yeah, that's what makes this record. Is that flip-flops in the reggae and the straight-up 4-4 time.
There's that sting trademark, right? On the outro.
Fatboi (49:11)
you
Sensei (49:23)
Now there's no taking away Sting's vocal arrangement, right? You can hear how he's orchestrating the vocals, so obviously a key part of that song There's that one note You see some of the elements from this song were what they did with synchronicity like an album or so later
Fatboi (49:42)
Yeah. I read that synchronicity album too.
Cause it, you know, it's like, ⁓ well, Sting has another song. This was just Sting though. Sting has another song that's been sampled a lot in hip hop. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
Sensei (50:10)
⁓
Fatboi (50:22)
I think it's a movie somebody made a joke about
What
Sting ⁓
Sensei (50:31)
store and the of the check too.
Fatboi (50:33)
and they would just
take off all his clothes and let the wind blow on him or something like that. But, you know, they got all kind of, you know, stings. Sting Joe?
Sensei (50:46)
Well, Stewart and Sting allegedly had one of them fights too. That's why they're not cool 40 years later, you know.
Hey!
Fatboi (51:01)
I always wonder why they, why there were so many stings.
Sensei (51:04)
⁓ He's still pissed about it. He's still talking about it. Yeah
He's got his own castle. He's got his own, ⁓ you know, yeah, exactly.
Like a genre of jokes about...
Well, you he's rich. Rich is...
I'm just off to have tantric sex in my tat in my castle and count on top of my piles of money and you know But yeah, man, I don't know if I'm the jury foreman I gotta like look at the puff the the P Diddy song Look what they sampled to get the essence of the song across the guitar thing is the first thing you hear and The hook is the hook and you can't do without the hook
But man, you gotta, you gotta like celebrate and compensate your creative partners when you come up with a hit, man. People get a convenient memory about what the deal is when there's money on the table. Right? When you're broken struggling in a van, we're a band. When there's a big check on the table and piles of money. ⁓ I wrote that part. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that equal thing goes out the window pretty quick, man.
Fatboi (52:48)
Yeah, it's
Money makes people do, ⁓ well, money actually brings out people's true self. And Sting probably was already this guy that they, the asshole they say he is. He probably was already that. he, because he knew, come on.
When you're that dope of a songwriter, you know you are. Know you are!
Sensei (53:17)
Yeah.
Hey, I'm not saying Stuart Copeland's not a piece of work because he could be like that too. But fair is fair. Even people who are pieces of work deserve their fair compensation.
Fatboi (53:32)
For your contribution.
Yeah, I know.
I mean, if I'm the judge in this case.
I'm absolutely awarding.
his bandmates more compensation for. But okay, this is the thing.
Sensei (53:58)
Are you going third, third, third, or is there some other formula? That's, that is the other key part of question.
Fatboi (54:07)
Okay, if you're going, it's the only two ways I would go, one or the other. And one of them is third, third, third. The other is contribution wise. Contribution wise, that guitar part is the key part of the song next to the lyric. So that would be 50-50.
Sensei (54:29)
I would have to say at least starting there and then maybe breaking Stewart off a little something something for playing less but you know he's in the band so but
Fatboi (54:39)
But even then...
The decisions for the sound of the drums is something.
Sensei (54:50)
Well, we said the key part of this record was the minimalist. Yeah. But also the minimal arrangement. And if you're in a creative environment, this is why they're arguing all the time. And you win the argument to like, you play less. So this will be a hit. You could see why the guy kept arguing because if he plays less than he gets less money. But isn't that negative space part of the conscious decision of the band? That's.
Fatboi (55:11)
This is the record,
Sensei (55:19)
My argument as the lawyer for the other guys is like.
Fatboi (55:23)
The Isley Brothers used to break the publishing down evenly like that.
Sensei (55:28)
because it just leads to arguments like that and overplaying to crowd out the spotlight instead of serve the song.
Fatboi (55:37)
And you could, one could argue that Chris Jasper is the catalyst for most of that Isley Brothers stuff, the keyboard player, the brother-in-law.
Sensei (55:48)
But without the brothers, you don't have an ass.
Fatboi (55:52)
without ⁓ yeah without the brush you don't have to act without
Sensei (55:55)
You don't have that act.
An act, it's not the special thing that was is Riley Brothers, right?
Fatboi (56:04)
Well, to me, the special thing of the Isley Brothers is three components.
Chris Jasper first and foremost because he's the one that came with most of those.
melodies, the timeless melodies that we know and love today. Ernie, because Ernie gives the Isley Brothers a sound, him and Chris together. And
Sensei (56:34)
That Hendrix-y sound, you know that?
Fatboi (56:36)
The Hendrix C sound and
The lead vocals of Ronald gives them that uniqueness. All three of those elements made them unique.
Sensei (56:54)
This is where I casually dropped the fact that I played on a record with Ron Isley.
Shameless plug! I'm not above that. Shameless plug, you gotta pay!
Fatboi (57:05)
man
you gotta plug that ⁓ anytime you do something with an icon you gotta plug it. I don't care what nobody thinks. You got to.
Sensei (57:14)
I I'd like that one out. That's a cool one. That's a cool one. Yeah.
With Snoop Dogg on the same record. there you go. See, two icons. No waiting. But but here's my thing. I drop that all the time. I'm shameless. But back to our question of the day. Here's the thing. This is a little off the beaten path, but bear with me. South Park.
Okay. When you think of South park, it's Trey and Matt or Matt and Trey. Okay. As a two creative dude behind a 30 year television empire, basically, they've got like a billion dollar deal out of Paramount. Right. ⁓ they've been around since the nineties and they have a creative partnership is still basically them. And I saw behind the scenes and it's still mostly Matt.
Fatboi (58:05)
Wow.
Sensei (58:06)
Like he does most of the... Or I forget the names mixed up, but it mostly the one guy and the other guy sits in his office and says, yeah, nah, maybe, you know, but, and I saw him talking about, I think it's Matt. ⁓ He said, you know what, man, that's just how the band works. He even used that term. It's like how the band works, you know, without him, it's just another show. But something about that chemistry, something about that chemistry made it special. Look, 30 years later...
They got Hollywood, you know, they did movies, they did Broadway. ⁓
Fatboi (58:42)
And both of
them are funny, like in person?
Sensei (58:45)
Yeah, but that creative partner, maybe the other guy does the grunt work of directing. People show up to work. Yeah. The other guy's just dicking off in his office, swirling pencils, but.
Fatboi (58:49)
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Or maybe his gift is knowing what's a hit and what's not going to hit or that.
Sensei (59:01)
Yeah, and and they've made peace with it and they've had a lot of success with that formula rather than work one diamond said I wrote that line I wrote that line adds up to fifty seven point three percent And you don't spend time arguing there's spend time counting all the money they made
Fatboi (59:10)
It works.
Yeah, because at the end of the day, okay, if we're gonna be 50-50 partners, your expertise is over here, mine is over here. I'm not gonna step on what you do. I'm not gonna step on what you do, and let's make this work. Same with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. you know, it's a lot of a, when you think Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, you think, okay, super power production duo.
but I found out a lot of those records, one loved and one didn't love some of the tracks, but for each other, they were like, okay, if he believes in it like that, I'm going with it. And a lot of those records are some of their biggest records. One didn't really care, the one who created it loved it.
Sensei (1:00:08)
If you only get paid when you win the argument, you're going to argue all the time. Right. And that, how is that a good creative situation for anybody? Maybe it is. don't know. Maybe it worked for the police, but man, 40 years later, they're still, they're still kind of raw about it.
Fatboi (1:00:26)
Yeah, because, and they should because that's their biggest record. That's their biggest record. And Sting is trying to, Sting has been credited with creating that record. Well, it is, okay, God, see this, it is his brainchild. That record is his brainchild. He worked out that, but Michael Jackson, cause I can bring up the scenarios where it works.
Michael Jackson and Quincy worked that way. Michael would demo a lot of these ideas and Quincy was smart enough to know they were hits. These are hits. Let me put my Quincy on it and it'll be...
Sensei (1:01:09)
They're
not hits until they go until it gets cooked like that. So recipe for a hit. Not the final meal on the on the table.
Fatboi (1:01:12)
Right. So there's a risk.
recipe
so but Michael
is credited as co-producer on these records. He's credited as co-producer and the publishing, Quincy has publishing on the Michael records.
Sensei (1:01:37)
He doesn't have 50 %
Fatboi (1:01:39)
I don't know. I don't know what they're...
Sensei (1:01:42)
I would I would fall in my chair. What we're near that
I would fall out of my chair if he got that kind of deal. Maybe, I don't know, but...
Fatboi (1:01:52)
Well, I would say because of back then, Quincy was making so much money on the front end for these projects because back then,
Sensei (1:02:01)
He was a name. You gotta pay me X amount for even walking the floor. Yeah, okay.
Fatboi (1:02:04)
Yes. Quincy
made means on the front end.
Sensei (1:02:09)
I don't think he's hurting for Del, I just don't know if he got 50 % of
Fatboi (1:02:12)
Yeah. Now,
successor with this. Okay. Now I would say this. They may have renegotiated between off the wall and thriller off the wall. may have been like that, but for thriller off the wall did 10 million.
Sensei (1:02:30)
That's not, that's not shabby.
Fatboi (1:02:32)
not
shabby. So because of off the wall, we're coming back to the table. You want me again for round two? Okay, round two, we're splitting this.
Sensei (1:02:45)
Yeah, well, perhaps.
Fatboi (1:02:46)
We're splitting it. And then when we come back a third time for bad, we definitely...
Sensei (1:02:52)
But there's something about having all that worked out where everyone feels okay about it going in that lends to a more creative environment, I would say. You're not arguing like that all the time.
Fatboi (1:03:00)
Yeah, because, ⁓
Rodney Jurgens, dark child, tells a story about...
when Michael hired him to ⁓ an album for him. And part of the deal was producing me, can't work with anybody else. Can't work with anybody else. And that was the main thing with Rodney working on that album. And one day, cause you know,
Michael would make a lot of notes on stickies.
Sensei (1:03:52)
Hmm.
Fatboi (1:03:54)
And Rodney went in the bathroom, had to use the bathroom one day, and he saw a sticky note that said, to ask Rodney about his, for his publishing.
Sensei (1:04:07)
To do.
Fatboi (1:04:09)
To do
get that pull out of right and ⁓
Sensei (1:04:12)
self
affirmation get the oil checked ask Rodney for the publishing ⁓
Fatboi (1:04:20)
He saw that
he saw that so Rodney knew what the play was he had insider trading in from information So when Michael came to him about the trading about the trading about the publishing Rodney he was like I think I Typically keep my publishing and Michael's like okay darn it but ⁓ had Rodney
Sensei (1:04:44)
I slipped into the Michael voice right there. That's pretty good. Darn it.
Fatboi (1:04:48)
But
Had Rodney not seen that sticky note about his publishing, he might've took that deal because Michael paid him upfront millions. So where does this come from? This essentially probably comes from him and Quincy working.
Michael knows this because there was no...
The big momentous part of his career is with Quincy. So where does this come from? This has to come from him learning from that experience with Quincy. And of course, Paul taught him the publishing game, McCartney. Paul taught him the publishing game in the first place. And this is all during this time and all that.
Sensei (1:05:25)
Hmm.
lording from that experience.
Fatboi (1:05:48)
Yeah, when he's dealing with Quincy, there was some things in that because Quincy sued, ⁓ he sued Epic Records and he sued the estate of Michael Jackson because...
in the, in the paperwork, any record, ⁓ and that goes for records released and unreleased, any record that anybody brings up changes, remixes. They have to clear that with Quincy. It couldn't just be just on the Michael end and the, ⁓ how do you say it?
Sensei (1:06:26)
⁓
Right.
Fatboi (1:06:34)
Posthumous, how do you say it?
Sensei (1:06:36)
⁓
Posthumous. Posthumous.
Fatboi (1:06:38)
The posthumous album that they made, ⁓ I think Timbaland was involved, L.A. Reid, ⁓ Quincy sued them. He sued everybody because you can't just, now of course Michael wasn't around to keep that straight.
Sensei (1:06:56)
Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, but
Fatboi (1:06:59)
the estate, maybe, you know, nobody's knowing the agreement that they had, know, Quincy's involved in every decision.
Sensei (1:07:12)
I'm pretty sure Quincy kept the receipts.
Fatboi (1:07:15)
yeah, and they went to court. And I know this because my attorney, Rasheed McWilliams, ⁓ RIP Sasha, his wife just passed away, my sister, ⁓ he was on the legal team for Quincy. So I'm getting play by play of this. ⁓ I'm knowing firsthand what's going on ⁓ in this case.
Sensei (1:07:37)
Okay.
Fatboi (1:07:44)
And Quincy dropped the hammer on the Michael Jackson estate, Epic Records, and you know, because of that one little nugget. So the dealings with Michael and Quincy were airtight, but Quincy had so many years of understanding of the business.
Well, he was a business, and Michael was a business.
Sensei (1:08:10)
launching off of that but coming back to the police what's crazy about this to me is Stuart Copeland founded the police his brother was kind of a big manager and managed the police as part of the reason for success yet what a thought he would have cleared this up back from jump in the late 70s when they were doing their thing
Fatboi (1:08:28)
my point in bringing this up is like there was no you guys didn't have any work out
Sensei (1:08:32)
So
your brother was the big time manager that you know you couldn't work this out in a conch. I've heard of another band I want to say follow for now. ⁓
Fatboi (1:08:45)
Follow for now. I know this guy.
Sensei (1:08:47)
Yeah, I heard them talking about this where they had, they would carve out a share of every record, the very song that put on a record as equal shares for the band. And then maybe wait the other half of it or whatever, according to who wrote the most. So everyone got a little piece at least for being in the room. And then maybe, I brought that whole idea and I should get 40 % of the other thing and you get the other 60 and then we'll split the other half with everybody just for
showing up and playing because it became the record. That seems to me a little more equitable formula for someone just, you know, I'm just playing around on the bass, but I showed up, I helped you write this record, I made it part of what it is, I should get something.
Fatboi (1:09:31)
And they call that ⁓ Nashville.
Sensei (1:09:37)
⁓ that's that kind of arrangement.
Fatboi (1:09:38)
Oh,
in Nashville. Yeah, so Nashville, it's understood that everybody in the room would just split in this down the middle. I think the other split style might be called New York, maybe.
Sensei (1:09:52)
I suppose they're going Dutch. Yeah.
That's where I take it all, you take the bus back to Jersey.
Fatboi (1:10:07)
Right.
So, Nashville, whenever I hear that come up, Nashville, okay, I know what it is. But.
Things have changed even from then till now with a lot of, Nashville is being used a lot more now because everybody in the room is making some kind of contribution. ⁓ And I would say the most notable thing is, okay, we'll start down the middle and then we'll break it down.
⁓ who did the most, you know, like, you know, for instance, if you come up with a
I'm going half with you on that, off top.
Sensei (1:11:07)
You heard it here first, folks.
Fatboi (1:11:11)
It's only right because if you come with the guitar part that makes this record unique, how can I not?
Sensei (1:11:21)
Right. Well, this is a you know, idea that spawns the other ideas. Sure.
Fatboi (1:11:22)
Sure. ⁓
And I'm
also looking at it like this too. Okay.
I think this record is a hit.
And if my thoughts of this record are true...
I would rather have 50%.
of a hundred then a hundred percent.
of nothing. You know, so, so, so this, this, this records, I mean, what you, gonna sit, you gonna sit back on a huge hit and say, damn, if I had a hundred percent, I'd be there. Some people probably do do that, but if you're, if you have, look, if you have, I think, I think TI only had like 10 % of of blurred lines. It was still a huge.
Sensei (1:12:01)
Zip-o, yeah, you know exactly.
Fatboi (1:12:30)
Hit. It was still a huge hit. T.I. was happy with his 10%.
Sensei (1:12:31)
Yeah.
He not trippin' At least to other things and more opportunities and everyone can ride There's And then you have friends instead of lawsuit enemies There's Let me tell you something I've been in a couple The only people that actually ever win a lawsuit are the lawyers The lawyers Even if you win a lawsuit you still kind of lose It took you years out of your life You had to pay these lawyers, you... blah blah blah and then there's bitter feelings and
Fatboi (1:12:43)
Thursday.
Sensei (1:13:07)
It's better just to work it out up front and let everybody ride at least some formula Okay, let's let it's verdict time Okay, we got it. Tell the judge something Juror number fat boy. What is your verdict in the case of the police versus sting?
Fatboi (1:13:28)
⁓ I side with, who's there suing Sting? So they're the plaintiffs.
Sensei (1:13:36)
Yes. And,
and Ian Stewart. Yeah. So
Fatboi (1:13:42)
I side with the plaintiff.
Sensei (1:13:44)
How much you giving them? How big of a piece of the pie are we doing? Third each or a third between the two of them?
Fatboi (1:13:48)
dirt
⁓
Sensei (1:13:54)
So third, third, you're saying you're a band. You deserve equal amount.
Fatboi (1:14:02)
This record has been sampled numerous times, even though the biggest version of it is the puff version, it's been sampled a lot of times.
and that sample doesn't separate the group.
Sensei (1:14:20)
It does not, does it? The picture they created together of that record is what remains. And we heard what Sting would do to a record. It ain't the police.
Fatboi (1:14:21)
It does not.
It's not a stingray.
It ain't the police. You hear?
the full police input of a record. And you can like, cause if that's the case, the Sting solo records would sound similar to police records and they don't.
Sensei (1:14:42)
Yes.
They do not at all. OK, you got my vote. I vote. Let's pay them off because they deserve it. That that's a that's a classic for all time. And those cats deserve their due.
Fatboi (1:15:01)
just a straight up payoff, like pay them.
Sensei (1:15:04)
Well, get their third, whatever, you know, let the lawyers figure that out. ⁓
Fatboi (1:15:09)
That's still the caveat. A third and back pay for what we should have been paid.
Sensei (1:15:18)
Definitely. That's what yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm on that page. Yeah
Fatboi (1:15:22)
Like, like,
like, like, like, me me.
Sensei (1:15:25)
You heard it there. That's our decision. What do you say? Leave it in the comments for us. thank you for watching. Thank you for watching.
Fatboi (1:15:37)
Levels. Do it again.
Sensei (1:15:39)
Then thank you for watching!
Fatboi (1:15:42)
his levels to this