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As relationships evolve, the roles can change frequently. Parenting a toddler looks much differently than parenting a teen. Children oftentimes become the primary caregiver of their aging parents. The same holds true for mentoring relationships. What started as a mentor match can evolve into a discipleship relationship for the mentee. As the mentee is led towards the cross, the mentor is better able to start teaching them how to live a life like Jesus. In order to do that, however, there are some points to keep in mind. This week, John and Zach take a rapid-fire approach to discussing the top 10 things to keep in mind as your mentoring relationship transitions into a discipleship relationship.
Purchase John's Book:
Mephibosheth! The Search for Identity, Purpose, and Community
Purchase John's Book:
Mephibosheth! The Search for Identity, Purpose, and Community
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. Learn more at youcanmentor.com or follow us on social media. You can mentor. Our main man, mister John Bernard has released a book entitled Mephibosheth, The Search for Identity, Purpose and Community. It's an amazing book and I know it will encourage you and your fellow mentors.
Speaker 1:While you're at it, pick up my book, You Can Mentor, How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission and Break Generational Curses. You can find both of these resources on Amazon or on our website. Lastly, follow us on social media. Listen to the podcast and share everything you find valuable with your mentoring friends. We're here for you, and we wanna add value in whatever way we can.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. You can mentor. We here at You Can Mentor are toying around with the idea of having a mentoring gathering or conference where mentoring leaders can come, get encouraged and equipped as they lead their ministries. Our goal in this is to create a safe and fun environment where mentors can share stories of struggles and successes while bonding together with their mentoring team and other mentoring leaders all across the country. If you lead a team of mentors and are interested in learning more about this gathering, please reach out to us.
Speaker 1:We'd love to pick your brain on how to create a gathering that best serves you and your team. Since this is our 1st year doing it, we want as much input as possible to create the best experience as possible. Thanks. You can mentor. Mentoring leaders, are you looking for a place to discuss important mentoring issues with other people who are passionate about mentoring?
Speaker 1:If so, let me introduce You Can Mentored Learning Labs, a monthly call with other mentoring leaders to support each other as we lead mentoring organizations and other mentors. Each call will focus on a topic and allow you to share as well as hear from others on the struggles and successes they have had regarding this specific topic. To sign up, please reach out to zachgarza@zach@youcanmentor.com, or find us on social media. Thank you. Remember, you can mentor.
Speaker 2:Hello. You can mentor listener. We're so glad that you've chosen to join us today. My name is John, and I'm sitting over here with my friend, and that's where you say your name is Zach. You with my friend, Zach.
Speaker 1:You sound like you're giving the announcements at church.
Speaker 2:What I feel like my air is that I just want to be friendly where someone would say, oh, that's that sounds like a nice guy, and then articulate.
Speaker 1:Well, you definitely sound nice and articulate. Unique New York where the
Speaker 2:words are coming out of my mouth very clearly.
Speaker 1:But you sound like you don't have a personality.
Speaker 2:Oh, seriously?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So Wow. You should be more, hey, guy. Well, I well, last week Familiar? Last week, you sounded like you were at the circus.
Speaker 1:So I think we need to find the middle ground.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. I I I'm gonna take what you're saying with a, like, a very large grain of salt. You know, like, very substantial.
Speaker 1:So I just wanna be honest with you. I was thinking about our podcast yesterday morning on my walk, and your introductions are one of the highlights of my week. I just love them. They're just so great.
Speaker 2:I spend a lot of time planning them and thinking about them.
Speaker 1:I can tell.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, brainstorming, whiteboarding.
Speaker 1:You don't whiteboard anything.
Speaker 2:I don't. I don't do it enough. But, listener, I am sitting here in the You Can Mentor office, and I'm seeing substantial whiteboards just in front of me with lots of compound words, 4 syllable words, just a lot of intentionality. And it really reminds me that that I'm setting the bar way too low in my own life.
Speaker 1:It's not true, John. Your bar is beautiful. You've got a beautiful bar.
Speaker 2:Zach, you have given us in terms of content a veritable buffet, my friend, of a feast. Yes. A feast of information.
Speaker 1:A cornucopia, if
Speaker 2:you will. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's really timely in terms of going into the fall. Thank you for mentioning that.
Speaker 2:I just I envision that right now, just thinking about all those wonderful fruits and vegetables. Just a
Speaker 1:just a gourd. Just a gourd of knowledge.
Speaker 2:Our last conversation was really a gourd in itself as we discussed some comparing and contrasting in relationship between mentoring and discipleship, which I thought was very helpful. I think that you're you're taking us to the next level.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So today, we are talking about what to do whenever you find yourself in a mentoring relationship, and then what do you know? There's an opportunity to disciple. Okay? So you're hanging out with a kid.
Speaker 1:Hey, man. Let's go get a snow cone. Let's talk about baseball. Yeah, life.
Speaker 2:Fist bump.
Speaker 1:Fist bumping. You know? Like, hey, how's school, buddy? And then he's like, hey, mentor. I wanna learn about Jesus.
Speaker 1:And you're like, oh my gosh. Yeah. The door has been opened. Mhmm. What do you do?
Speaker 1:And so this is the transition. You know, it's like it's like big. The movie, whenever Tom Hanks is on the piano Yeah. We're going from one side of the piano to the other. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that makes sense. I'm gonna go with it. Okay. Thanks. And we are talking about how to go from mentoring right in that transition into intentional discipleship.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. So a recap of last week. What is mentoring? We discussed mentoring is guiding, mentoring is shepherding, mentoring is life on life, mentoring is you're just sharing what you know, you're sharing life, you are giving the mentee someone to look up to, opening up doors, experiences, all of that stuff. Discipleship is the intentional act of teaching someone how to follow Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:How to have a faith, how to expand their faith, how to share their faith. It's a it really is, hey, you need to know some skills, and I am going to teach you those. You need to know how to read your bible. You need to know how to pray. You need to know how to have endurance, perseverance, all of these things.
Speaker 1:Right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Are you okay with me thinking maybe that mentoring might be this idea of of kinda pointing my mentee to my life, making myself available in that way for for health and for good development and good relationships, whereas discipleship is the ultimate really pointing my mentee to Christ himself.
Speaker 1:Yes. So it's a it's a mentoring is a follow me as I follow Jesus. Mhmm. And a discipleship is a go and make disciples.
Speaker 2:The ultimate goal. Right? And that's really kinda what we desire. Yeah. It doesn't always happen.
Speaker 2:We don't always get the opportunity to to truly disciple. But when we do, I think first and foremost, let's be prepared for it. Let's say even at the beginning, you guys, I just always kind of envision, you know, that walking up to the school, if that's your mentor, mentee set up as you as you enter that that door, you say, Lord, have me prepared. I know that you've already ordained this time, and I pray that I'll be a blessing to my mentee. And if the opportunity presents itself, that I would share truth and that I would, you know, be mindful of discipleship.
Speaker 2:I think maybe that's really great thing to remember, Zach, right off the bat even when that we're we're focusing on these mentor relationships that we're always hoping for that discipleship process to be taking place.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And that's what's so interesting, confusing, kinda, I don't know, weird about faith based mentoring is isn't faith based mentoring discipleship? And the answer is no. It's not always, but it can be. So you're kinda always, like, going in between mentoring and discipleship, or discipleship and mentoring if your mentee is open and wants that.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. So, like, you might spend 10 years with your mentee, and you'll never talk about Jesus. Well, that's mentoring. But the second he talks about faith, or he asks about faith, then bam, you're in discipleship mode. Or you are asking questions that that might lead to intentional discipleship mode.
Speaker 2:Right? So, guys I like it.
Speaker 1:It is confusing. It's wonky, but it's kinda like, and I could be way off here. It's kinda like marriage, you know? Like marriage, sometimes you're friends, sometimes you're lovers, but I went there. I know.
Speaker 1:But like it's kind of this, you're kind of vacillating. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like, it's just like a fan.
Speaker 2:And where you are, it's cool to accept that that's, you know, where you are is where you should be.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For sure. And there will be seasons where you're awesome friends and maybe not so much on the other end, but then there's seasons when, you know, everything's great.
Speaker 2:Zach, I think it was Michael Walton that that posed the question, how can we be lovers if we can't be friends? Do you remember this?
Speaker 1:I don't. You're old.
Speaker 2:I wonder if we might just kinda stop for a moment and and listen to that song together.
Speaker 1:No. We're not going to. Okay. So back to what we're talking so back to what we're talking about. Today, we're talking about if you find yourself with a mentee that says, hey, mentor.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for spending time with me and investing into my future. Would you be so kind as to teach me about the Bible and Jesus Christ and how to follow him?
Speaker 2:That Minty almost sounds like I did when we started this podcast in terms
Speaker 1:of He really does.
Speaker 2:He's got those vibes.
Speaker 1:He really does. Or she. Oh, nice. And so we are talking about the top ten things that you need to know if you find yourself in a discipleship relationship. Okay.
Speaker 1:It is similar to going from you are playing basketball to coaching basketball. It's still the same sport, but to coach, you need some skills. Mhmm. And so we are going to try to give you these skills or just these mindsets Yeah. In regard to discipleship.
Speaker 1:And some of these you've heard before, but we're just gonna pretend like this is your first time hearing this beautiful, wonderful podcast. And you're gonna walk away saying, man, that was great. I can't wait to give that a 5 star rating and subscribe on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2:Thank you for mentioning the reminder of that,
Speaker 1:that they need to. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, can I just begin with our
Speaker 1:first
Speaker 2:truth? What's that? I just Is that a drum roll?
Speaker 1:I feel like I feel like we've lingered here too long. We need to get to the meat. We've spent way too much time on the appetizer. That's definitely true. But it was it was a wedge salad, and we just thoroughly enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But let's get to the steak.
Speaker 2:Okay. Listen, top 10. First off, right off the bat, Zach, you can't give what you don't have.
Speaker 1:That's it right there. So if you are going to make a disciple, the number one principle is you yourself cannot give what you don't have. You have to be filled up, which means you are praying. You're in the word. You're worshiping.
Speaker 1:You're resting. You have a healthy family. Of course, you might fall down from time to time, but you get up quickly. Someone once said, the true marker of spiritual maturity isn't whether or not you fall down, but it's how quickly you get back up. And so so, yeah, that is number 1.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think you just entering into the relationship as your best self. So you have to ask yourself the question, what do I have to do to be my best self, to be as much like Jesus as possible? Whenever you and it well, in all relationships, it is our goal to try to be like Jesus. So what do we have to do to create in ourselves the person that when people hang out with us, they experience the person of Jesus?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:There's some nonnegotiables here, Zach. Understanding who we are, who we are in Christ. Right? Understanding that we wanna live our life with intentionality. Making some hard decisions sometimes.
Speaker 2:I think that being your best self when you talk about that, it reminds us that it involves sacrifice, and it involves even kinda being mindful of the relationship between our spiritual life, our our mental health, and our physical health as well. You're you're an exerciser.
Speaker 1:Look at these biceps, John.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:These things are like, you know, small small basketballs.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Definitely.
Speaker 1:Mini, mini basketballs. I'm just kidding, listener. I'm actually getting kinda fat.
Speaker 2:So But, man, that that's a part of it. It is, isn't it? It's the holistic thinking of understanding that everything is connected. And so it's taking those opportunities to tend to yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So being your best self relationally, right, surrounding yourself with people who make you better, who add value, who encourage you, It is resting. Right? Self care is not selfish. You've gotta have some fun.
Speaker 1:You have to invest into yourself. You know, you have to make sure that your family is good. So love God, love others. Well, your first others is your spouse, if you're married, and your kiddos, if by chance, you know, there's some kids around. Physical taking care of yourself, exercise, trying to focus in on your limits.
Speaker 1:So you can't do everything, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Be careful what you say yes to, and Yeah. So Being realistic. Yeah. I think I've talked about the story about whenever I was a teacher, and her name was Zakiya. Haven't I shared this before?
Speaker 1:I don't know if I have or not. I'm gonna share it again.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Do it real quick.
Speaker 1:I was a teacher, 8th grade, and I taught health class, which should tell you a lot about me and how smart I am. But I had this class, and it was a 7th period class, which 7th period, if you don't remember, is whenever you have classes filled with people who aren't in extra curricular activities. So they're not in sports. They're not in band. They're not in anything.
Speaker 1:And so you get a really rough crowd. So Thanks for being diplomatic in that. You're welcome. You probably had a 7th period, John.
Speaker 2:I had a 7th period. Yeah. Yeah. That was me all the way.
Speaker 1:So I had this girl in my class. Her name was Zakia. She was she was, objectively speaking, the worst behaved student in our entire school. But for some reason, Zakia loved me, and I loved her. She was awesome.
Speaker 1:And she was kind of a bully. She was she liked to get in fights and all all of that sort of riffraff. But we became buddies, and she was in my 7th grade class. Well, I had 20 kids, most of whom were not into learning, and they were into causing mischief. But I never had to say a thing because Zakiyah would make sure that those kids were in line.
Speaker 1:If anyone talked back, if anyone misbehaved, I didn't have to say anything. Zakiyah yelled at him, and I was okay with that. It was great, and we were buddies. We talked often. Well, there was one week where I had a football game on Tuesday night.
Speaker 1:I was out late. I hung out with all of my friends on Wednesday night. I was out late. Thursday, I had tons of stuff to do because I'm so, you know, busy. And I came into Friday, and I was just worn out.
Speaker 1:I hadn't spent time with, you know, the lord. I hadn't prayed. I hadn't gotten into my word. I stayed up late. I didn't wake up early, and I was just a mess.
Speaker 1:And the kids in my 7th period class were acting a fool. And so I was sitting at my desk, and instead of getting up and engaging with them, I just yelled at them. Hey, guys. You need to be quiet. Stop talking.
Speaker 1:Well, what happened? They kept on talking. And I said, guys, I'm telling you, you need to be quiet. Shut your mouth right now, because I don't have time for this. I was not very kind.
Speaker 1:Well, they kept on doing it. And the 3rd time, I lost my cool. Okay? And I slammed my hands down, and I yelled at them. And I think I might have told them to shut up, which don't do that.
Speaker 1:But I was just not a nice human being. I didn't look like Jesus at all. And I slammed my hands down, and I said, I told you to be quiet if you talk again. And the whole class went silent. Because I'm 68, and I'm yelling, and they're 13 years old.
Speaker 1:So I'm sitting there, and Zakiyah comes up to me. And she says, hey, coach. I said, yeah. She goes, I have something to ask you. I said, what?
Speaker 1:And she goes, hey. What's wrong with you today? You're usually so nice, but there's something wrong with you today. And the lord convicted me in that moment. And he showed me.
Speaker 1:He's like, Zach, you've been going too hard. You haven't been spending time with me. You're acting out of your flesh because you haven't come to me to get filled up. And so that is my story on you can't give what you don't have. I didn't have what the lord gives me.
Speaker 1:I didn't have patience. I didn't have kindness. I didn't have gentleness. I didn't have self control, because I hadn't been getting my tank filled up by Jesus. And so if you are going to make a disciple, you cannot make a disciple out of your own flesh.
Speaker 1:You have to be filled up because you can't give what
Speaker 2:you don't have. Be equipped for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So True. That's my story.
Speaker 2:Great way to start. Well, I hope so. Guess what the second one is? Not only you can't give what you don't have, but, hey, you can't you can't lead where you haven't been. Oh.
Speaker 2:Now we're talking geography, my friend. This reminds me there's this book that I wrote. It's called Myth of a Chef. And in it, what I get to do is is really kinda just describe what it means to be a mentor within the realm of 3 occupations, and one of those is the tour guide. And so as we think about it, Zach, this idea of what it means to mentor, well, I love that this point that you that you raised is just coincides with that is this understanding of a tour guide is someone that we want to be with us along the the trip.
Speaker 2:What kind of tour guide would we be if to say, hey. I can't wait. I'm gonna take me and my family to the Grand Canyon. We're gonna explore this thing, this wonderful place that God has has given us. And our tour guide, though, actually lives in Minnesota, and so they're going to be, you know, guiding us through the the Grand Canyon from that state.
Speaker 2:That doesn't make sense, so can't lead where you haven't been.
Speaker 1:No, John. That doesn't make sense. But I think that this is so good because I often, as a mentor, as someone who's trying to advance the kingdom, sometimes I find myself wondering, Lord, why am I going through all this stuff? Like man, Lord, I just seem to keep on having hard issue after hard issue after hard issue, and I don't like this, God. And there is a temptation to get angry at god.
Speaker 1:There's a temptation to not understand it, but what happens if I change my perspective? And instead of saying, oh, god. Why am I going through all this? Why am I having a tough time in my marriage? Why am I having a tough time in my job?
Speaker 1:Why are my kids acting like fools? What if I change my perspective of, wow, this is helping equip me to lead someone through these things whenever the Lord helps me overcoming the season? And so every new experience, you're putting a tool in your tool belt, you're putting an experience in your experience binder.
Speaker 2:And you're trapper keeper of experiences.
Speaker 1:And you're trapper keeper of experiences. You're just opening up the Velcro. And you're saying, man, one day, I will be able to use this hard time to help someone else who's going through a hard time.
Speaker 2:No kidding.
Speaker 1:And I will also say this. There are a couple things here. You have to go there first. Sometimes that takes courage. Sometimes that takes intentional decisions.
Speaker 1:Like I am going to go to counseling, or I am going to forgive, or I am going to take a risk, because you are the example that they will follow. One thing that I love about going first is it gives someone who goes second the courage to go. Yes. Because your mentee, just like we talked about earlier, follow me as I follow Christ, your mentee will become like you. And one of my favorite things is a really good thing to lead your mentee into is the art of always be growing.
Speaker 1:So if your mentee sees you being discipled, if your mentee sees you trying to grow in spiritual disciplines, if they see you going to church or doing all of these things, then they are going to follow. Well, they have a better chance
Speaker 2:of following. Absolutely. There are no guarantees in that. You're right. No.
Speaker 2:But they do have such a better better chance. I I think that it just speaks volumes to our mentees when they do see that that we are not coming from a stance of having all the answers, but that we are still understanding that the more we know, the more we realize we don't. And but that we are abiding in the vine of Christ and that he's teaching us every day. I mean, back to your first point of this idea of, like, every setback, every failure is yet another opportunity to learn. And so, yeah, that is going to be so attractive.
Speaker 1:And what I love about these first two points is, as we say often, so much more is caught than taught. Mhmm. So if you're filled up and if you're going where God has called you to go, the mentee's gonna pick up a ton just by observing you, just by watching you. Right. And that's good.
Speaker 1:Alright. Number 3. Go for it, John.
Speaker 2:Hey, it's not what you want. It's truly what God wants.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So this is really hard because we all have things that we want our mentees to experience. We want our mentees to do well in school. We want them to get a job. We want them to go to college.
Speaker 1:We want them to get married. We we want them to fulfill their potential. But what happens if if that's not what God has for them? What happens if your mentee doesn't go to college, and instead becomes a auto mechanic? Well, is that a failure?
Speaker 1:It's easy to say yes, but what if that's what the Lord has for him? That's tough.
Speaker 2:So now at this point, Zach, I feel like what you're bringing up is, we gotta take a hard look at our personal preferences and and maybe even what we would define as success. Right? We do it as parents. We do it in our marriage as well. And I think that it's just such an important reminder to say, Lord, not not as I see fit, but as you see fit.
Speaker 2:So for this person, God, we we commit this mentee to you. And so whatever you have for their life, don't let it be about my personal preference, but instead, again, what you have for them.
Speaker 1:Right. And so often, we wanna keep our mentees from hard situations. Right? Oh, no. No.
Speaker 1:No. No. Don't do that. Because if you do that, then you're gonna experience this, and this is gonna hurt, and this is gonna be bad, and you don't want that. No.
Speaker 1:No. No. Stop. But what if, as we all know, what if the Lord is going to use that hard situation to actually turn them into someone who looks more like him? And sometimes, the thing that we're keeping them from is actually the thing that they need, which
Speaker 2:that's hard. So This is another good reminder just of God's sovereignty, and sometimes something that we need to be mindful of that that God has them and that he has good for them. And so he's going to use us to protect them at times and to bring wisdom, but also that he's got this. And so that strengthens our faith as well.
Speaker 1:It's a faith exercise. Yeah. Because when you're trying to make a disciple of yourself okay. Well, I went to college, and I did this, and I did that, and da da da, and it worked out well for me. You should do it too.
Speaker 1:But it takes faith to say, okay, lord. I am I'm entrusting this relationship. I'm entrusting this soul, this child of god to you. And I say, lord, have your way. Whatever you want, I'm going to trust that you can make all things new, that what the enemy meant for evil, god can turn for good, that you have a good what's that verse in Jeremiah?
Speaker 2:2911?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I can't say it because of my stutter. I have a good I have
Speaker 2:a I
Speaker 1:have a plan for your life.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Not to harm you.
Speaker 1:Not to harm you, but to prosper. Not to prosper. Sometimes that old speech impediment gets me. But, yeah, God loves them more than you do. His timing is perfect.
Speaker 1:Right? So you might want him to you might want your mentee to follow Jesus when they're in 8th grade, but God might have different plans. Trust his timing. Patience is needed. What is patience?
Speaker 1:Patience only comes from walking in the spirit. All frustration comes from unmet expectations. So we shouldn't expect our mentee to do certain things because if we expect it, then if it doesn't happen, we might get frustrated. Your job is to be faithful. It's his job, God's job to grow the fruit.
Speaker 2:Dude, we're just planting the water.
Speaker 1:We're just farmers, just planting and watering. Plant and watering there, John.
Speaker 2:Oh, man.
Speaker 1:And most important, yet also most frustrating and just kinda like, what, Lord? Is his ways are not our ways. Amen. And so Yeah. Number 4.
Speaker 1:Meet them on their turf.
Speaker 2:Their turf.
Speaker 1:JB, I think you've got something to say about this, sir.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. You know, thankfully, what I get to do as I do get to talk about skateboarding every single episode. Right, Zach? Gosh. You love it.
Speaker 2:For as much as I get to identify with skating and get to run a skateboarding ministry, you'd be you'd be shocked when you when I would would tell you how much time I actually spend on a skateboard these days.
Speaker 1:It's it's a little sad. Well, you're almost 50.
Speaker 2:That's true, but I'll keep doing it. I've decided this that at the at a point where my knees fuse up and my back is no more, I'm just gonna have the skaters just kinda place me, you know, just on my back on the board and just gonna push me
Speaker 1:Kinda like that.
Speaker 2:Push me down the
Speaker 1:That that sounds biblical.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Meeting them on their turf means that you very simply, you just go to them. And, you know, I'm I'm very grateful that I get to lead a ministry that where people who live in communities who may enjoy skateboarding, what we say is, you know what? Just go to the park like kids are already there. Something that's that's a reality with the public park is that these cities put up these sometimes multimillion dollar facilities.
Speaker 2:And but there's no real program there. There's nothing there's nothing really going on because skating is is kinda unorganized in that way. It's not like football where you have coaches and you have different teams and there's and there's oversight. With skateboarding, it's a lot of times just kids doing it because no one's telling them what to do. However, what a gift it is for us to be able to plant these, what we call middleman mentors on purpose to go into these places and just to enjoy what you do and understand that the community is often very naturally kind of developed as you spend time there and as you strike up conversation because, you know, skaters, they talk to each other, Zach.
Speaker 2:They they're like, hey, man. Like, there's a built in. I don't know if you know this about the skate park, but there's a built in that when someone performs a trick the other people waiting to to to ride a ramp or an obstacle
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Will cheer them on.
Speaker 1:Hey, bro. Sick Ollie, man.
Speaker 2:I I don't remember saying that there was a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle there.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But but, you know, there's that there's that built in encouragement. Mhmm. And so it's like, yeah. Well done. Good job.
Speaker 2:Hey, man. What are you riding?
Speaker 1:Okay. I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2:The conversations begin. So what we get to do is to say, hey. We're gonna be there. We're gonna we're gonna strike up conversation. I'm gonna get to learn these kids' names.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And then what we what we often do is we'll say, hey. Life's hard. I just wanted you to know that I'm a part of an organization that that mentors, and so I wanted to share my number with you. Dude, if you ever if you're ever struggling, you ever need somebody to talk to, I'm here for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's a great way to start that that mentor relationship that that hopefully ends up in a discipleship relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And in regards to discipleship, it's important to meet them where they are. So going over to their house, learning their names, learning their parents' names, learning their brothers and sisters, what's important to them becomes what's important to you. Just you have to pursue them. So they might not always reach out to you, but that's okay.
Speaker 1:You can reach out to them. I know with me, sometimes, like, man, I don't wanna call them. I'm gonna bug them. I'm gonna be annoying, and very rarely is that the case. So your ability to get uncomfortable speaks love.
Speaker 1:So, hey, like, if they are dealing with, you know, whether it's lust or sex or whether they're, you know, smoking or doing any kind of drugs, like, it's okay to talk about those things. Your ability to get uncomfortable helps them feel comfortable. And so
Speaker 2:You're the thermostat. Yeah?
Speaker 1:That's right. You said it.
Speaker 2:Hey. One real quick thing, Zach. This reminds me of this idea of meeting them on their turf. You know what? It it's such a we think, oh, man.
Speaker 2:The investment of, like, physically getting out to a place and doing that, that can be a drag sometimes. Listen. Let's use technology to our advantage. The art of just checking in. What if you just like, on a regular basis, you just send that text to see, tell me how your day is going real quick.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Or just simply, hey, Ronald, what can I be praying for you about today? I mean, there are kids named Ronald still. Right? Ronald?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like the character on show my kids watch called Nature Cat.
Speaker 2:Okay. So check-in. Meet them on their turf. Mhmm. Number 5.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Number 5. And I will preface this one by saying this. I know so often you might believe the lie that your kids don't like this or that this is never gonna work, or they're not gonna show up, or this isn't gonna be fruitful. But number 5 is this, give everyone a chance because you never know what the lord is going to do.
Speaker 1:And so I say this in the transition between possible mentoring and discipleship. Hey, like, maybe just asking the question, even if in your head you're like, there's no way he's ever gonna open up. There's no way he's gonna talk about Jesus. There's no way that he wants to hear about faith. Maybe just, hey, man.
Speaker 1:Have you, like, thought about anything spiritual this week? Or tell me what's you know, tell me what you've been thinking about God or just anything like that. Like, that can help open up the door or at least knock on the door of possible discipleship opportunities.
Speaker 2:And so I'm hearing be slow to maybe set up a a prejudice over something or or an attitude about something or or even an expectation as far as how how far a kid can go. Yeah. Be slow about that and and kinda leave those options open to say, lord, you might be doing something, or we might get into a conversation that I would have never thought that we would get into, but, you know, again, this kid might might really surprise you.
Speaker 1:Right. For sure. Because you you just never know what's going on in a kid's heart, and kids are really good at looking one way or appearing one way, like they don't care or, like, they don't want anything to do with this, but you have no idea what the Lord's stirring up in their heart. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:What if we could look at every kid with that potential of saying, this could be an incredible Christ follower? That's that's really the the stance that we should take. Right?
Speaker 1:100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No matter their behavior, no matter their mistakes, no matter how they look, no matter how they speak, to be able to say, oh, man. There is no doubt because this is someone that you have made in your image, Lord, that they could be they're they're created to worship you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you just have no idea what they're gonna turn into. I mean, like me. Like, if I promise you, if anyone would have took a look at me whenever I was in 10th grade and said, this guy is going to follow Jesus and help kids and spend his life trying to advance the kingdom. No way would anyone have thought that, because I was a mess.
Speaker 1:But here I am all because someone just decided just to take a chance on me. Yeah. And, you know, that's a really big deal. It's just a really big deal. Whenever you take a chance on someone, whenever you give them that opportunity, in a weird way, it just makes them feel special, makes them feel worth, makes them feel loved.
Speaker 1:Like like And sometimes you have to speak what you see in them before they can see it. Because I might say, John, you're a leader. John, you, you know, have a ton of potential, and you might be like, what? I've never thought that before a day in my life. But if but if Zach says I am, then maybe I am.
Speaker 1:So Awesome. Number 6.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute. Are we halfway there?
Speaker 1:We're halfway there. Awesome. Yeah. Number 6. Me or you.
Speaker 2:I'll do it. Be the most encouraging person in the world. Zach, that's huge, man.
Speaker 1:It's just it's just and there's a part of me that's like, these aren't necessarily in order because this could be number 1. Just who doesn't like being encouraged? Who doesn't like hearing awesome things about themselves? Who doesn't like it when someone's smiling and joyful and laughing? You will get more mileage out of telling them what they did right than telling them what they're doing wrong.
Speaker 1:You get to pull the best out of people. Right? And you get to give them an idea of how much the lord loves them and what the lord sees in them. Right? Jesus had faith in people.
Speaker 1:Jesus called out the best in people. You should too. One thing that I love about watching the show, The Chosen, which have you seen it yet, John? Yes. Are you sure?
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's great. You've watched it?
Speaker 2:Have I watched all of it? Is is that what you're asking? I've been exposed to to some of it, and and what I've seen has been excellent.
Speaker 1:But but Jesus, I mean, he calls people who they didn't believe in themselves. Like, what? Me? A disciple? And we get to do the same thing, which is such a great opportunity.
Speaker 1:Yes. I feel like sometimes I operate in fear. I can be kinda critical. I can control, and that is that is not encouraging. Right?
Speaker 1:Hey, don't do this. Don't do that. You should do this. You should do that. But instead, have faith and be like, okay, Lord.
Speaker 1:I'm going to encourage. I'm gonna focus in on what they're doing right. I'm gonna focus in on what you see in them, and I'm going to operate with the faith to know, god, that you can do anything.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I wanna draw some lines here real quick. Sure. What I'm getting from this point, this truth, is that to discourage, to be critical, I think that it creates within the relationship between mentor and mentee and even our our own mentees' attitudes is kind of a spirit of uncertainty and doubt. And, oh, I don't wanna disappoint you, and so I need to know I don't know if it's the right thing to say or or do.
Speaker 2:We can kinda create that in our discouragement, in our even when we intend to be helping this kid, we can we can create some issues for them. But if we come from a place of faith into speaking encouragement, then we're actually creating a freedom and we're and we're creating a comfort to where we know even that our mentee can make a mistake and that and that it's not going to be the end of the world. So I think that this is a really solid point. Let's talk about practically speaking, how is it How how do we work to be a more encouraging person if it's maybe not our default? Because some of us like you, dude, you're you're just an encouraging person, but I know that you make it a point to be intentional about it.
Speaker 2:One way that you're super encouraging is actually through texting. You're one of the most encouraging texters that I know. You you text a word that's not even, you know, it's not even, like, reactionary to something else. It's just maybe out of the blue. You're you're good at sending kind of that out of the blue encouraging text.
Speaker 2:Thank you. So well done on you. That's one way. Anything else that you might be able to offer a listener?
Speaker 1:So my thanks thanks a lot for saying that. So someone once told me this. If you think it, tell them. And I don't like cell phones. I think they might be from the devil.
Speaker 1:But like you said, they can be useful. They they can be good, and that's what I love about texting. If if I'm taking a walk, and I'm like, man, John Barnard's awesome. I'm gonna text you and say, John, you're awesome. Because I believe that's the holy spirit stirring that up, and I'm going to have faith that whenever I send that text to you, it's going to be received well.
Speaker 1:And so, mentors, anytime you think a positive thought about your mentee,
Speaker 2:text them. Send it.
Speaker 1:Anytime you say a prayer, just text them. I have done this before. I I've I've sent this to people and said, hey, I want you to know that God has put you on my heart for this season. Anytime I think about you, I'm gonna pray for you, and I'm going to let you know that by sending the little emoji with the hands that are praying. So if you ever see that emoji, know that you're being prayed for.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 1:And I don't do that to pat myself on the back and say, look at Zach. He's a prayer. I do it because who doesn't like it whenever someone's like, man, I'm I'm being prayed for?
Speaker 2:Low investment, high yield right there, my friend. Right. So It takes I mean, it takes a second Yep. To do, and it could really that has the power to actually change a person's day.
Speaker 1:It does. So Gotta be mindful of that. Yep. And especially now with the cell phone. With the cell phone, like, you can put a reminder to put it into your calendar.
Speaker 1:Like, every Wednesday morning, I have on my calendar, send voice memo to the guys who I'm who I am investing into,
Speaker 2:who I
Speaker 1:am discipling. So
Speaker 2:Right. You can you can get a lot done in a very short amount of time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you can mentor.
Speaker 2:Are we done?
Speaker 1:No. But just felt. Just felt right. Natural. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 1:Okay. Number 7. 2nd Timothy 22. And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witness in trust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others. Awesome.
Speaker 1:So what I'm saying about this is is this. Well okay. So you're mentoring. Everything's great. Okay.
Speaker 1:Wow. We're discipling. Now, I'm intentionally investing, teaching this person how to follow Jesus. Ask the question, hey, do you have any friends who might want to join us? And then you can go from 1 on 1 to 1 on 2, to maybe even 1 on 3.
Speaker 1:I would say anything more than 4 people is too much, but you can start teaching your mentee, hey, this doesn't stop with you. Someone invested into me, I'm investing into you, and I expect you to pass it on and to invest into someone else. And that is how you create the 2nd Timothy 22, AKA the 222 model. Disciplers, disciple. Right?
Speaker 2:That's it, man. And disciples are meant to be disciplers. Yep. And
Speaker 1:especially if your mentee has leadership qualities. Like, we have all been there. We've seen there's one kid at school who leads their entire class. Like, man, that kid's such a leader. As a teacher for a decade, there were certain years where, like, man, that's a good class.
Speaker 1:Why? Because they had 1 or 2 kids who were just leaders who loved Jesus. And then we had, you know, we had some some kinds of years that we didn't have that, and those kids were maybe bad years, quote, unquote.
Speaker 2:Speaking of years, just kinda working with youth ministry, leading that in the church, I can also tell you that there were times when I would meet with a kid in the youth group, and this was a kid who loved the Lord, but really struggled because they were surrounded by folks that did not. So their friends, their teammates, they were not as strong in their faith. And it's a it's a hard reality to say to a kid, I'm so sorry that you have actually more influence around you that's going to probably hurt your relationship with the Lord than than is going to encourage you. So this is another reminder for us to be thinking about and and understanding that our mentees have such a great influence because we want for them we want them to be surrounded by other followers of Christ because that's gonna encourage their faith as well. They may be the most spiritually mature kid out of that group, but if they're if they're surrounded by other kids that are growing in their faith, it's going to also be a real encouragement for them.
Speaker 1:100%. Let's look at Jesus. Jesus had the 12, but really in the 12, he had 3, and then you could say that he really focused in on 1. And so Jesus had the 1 person, then he had the 3, then he had the 12, then they had the 72. And, like, man, if Jesus, the son of God, really, like, focused in on 1, then focused in on 3, and those 3 turned into 12, then, like, that's a good model for us to to follow.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Centric circles that way.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Don't know what that word means, but sounds good.
Speaker 2:When you think about, like, the circle of 1 in terms of friendship, Zach, you obviously, you think me first and foremost. Duh. Right? And then from there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, the it's
Speaker 1:a it's a long fall. Let's just say that. Tremendously long. Incredible. Alright.
Speaker 1:We're getting off track. Number 8. Alright. This is this is super important. Don't just tell them.
Speaker 1:Show them and empower them. So, yes, you need to read the bible, but you need to read the bible with them. So it's okay to open up your bible and say, hey, let's read this passage and tell me what you think. It's okay to say a prayer when they're not around, but how much better to say a prayer when they are around? Or take it a step further.
Speaker 1:Hey. Let's pray. Would you pray, or why don't I pray first and then you close us out? So you're just like lobbing them soft balls to hit. So, you know, whether you can teach them to fast.
Speaker 1:Hey. Let's let's fast one meal, and let's talk about it next week. Encouraging them, worshiping with them. Hey. The next time we meet, we're just gonna sit in our car, and we're gonna we're going to hear a worship song, and then afterwards, we're just gonna talk about it.
Speaker 1:Is that awkward? Yes. Super awkward. But you're teaching them how to worship. The goal is whenever you leave, they know how to read the bible.
Speaker 1:They know how to pray. They know how to fast. They know how to worship because they're not always, you know, they're not always gonna have you.
Speaker 2:This is a really great reminder that this this with is greater than for idea. Right? To do things with our mentee as opposed to even just for them because the eye it kinda reminds me of parenting when you have these kids who go off to college and they have no idea what to do in their daily life. They don't know how to wash clothes. They don't know how to prepare food.
Speaker 2:We parent so that we can prepare these adults. And, you guys, we mentor so that we can, by God's grace, be able to create these followers of Christ who, for whatever season we're gonna spend, you know, in this in the life of this mentee that but when our time is done, we hope that they have been exposed to and practiced these acts of worship. Yep. And in their many ways. And so, yeah, man, this is what we should be mindful of.
Speaker 2:So we're kind of again, we're it's almost like we're working our way out of a job as a mentor because we want these these kids to have something so solid and something so real when it comes to their faith apart from from who we are.
Speaker 1:Yep. It is that I do, you watch, we talk. I do, you help, we talk. You do, I help, we talk. You do, I watch, we talk.
Speaker 1:You do, someone else watches, which that goes back to what we just talked about, that 222. Right? Yeah. So when you give someone responsibility, you give them authority. Like you are saying, hey, I believe you can do this.
Speaker 1:I have faith. Let's do it together. I am I am going to call you up into this, which is just a really cool deal.
Speaker 2:This goes even beyond saying that you're valuable to our mentee. It actually says you are capable.
Speaker 1:It's empowering them.
Speaker 2:Yes. You you can do this, and I think that's I think that's something that that is again, back to the youth ministry thing real quick. I see it a lot in in in organized groups like that. They they kinda take this. Hey.
Speaker 2:We really want these kids to know that they're that they're important. That's great. But, also, what are we instilling in those in those programs to say, we also wanna be able to have these kids understand that they are the church of today, like, that they are the ones who can have a great impact in their schools and in their lives, and that is about empowering them, giving them opportunities not only to understand that God loves them dearly, but that he gives them everything that they need to live out their life for him.
Speaker 1:100%. Number 9? Facilitate them meeting with the Lord. So I often think as a mentor, I have to lead. And, yes, there are times that I have to lead.
Speaker 1:But what if I just facilitated the meeting with the Lord? And so how I like to do this is if you have a mentor who's really serious about learning more about the Lord, you schedule an hour and a half. In the first 30 minutes, you connect with them. Hey. How's it going?
Speaker 1:How's school? How's this? How's that? The next 30 to 45 minutes, you get into the word, and you or you pray. You do something that engages the spirit, the word of God, things like that.
Speaker 1:And then afterwards, you get to process that. Hey. Tell me what you learned. Tell me what you heard. Tell me what you felt the holy spirit doing.
Speaker 1:Right? And and then you just see if there's any action steps. So, you know, hey. We we connected. Oh, I'm having a hard time with fear.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, let's see what the let's see what the word says about fear, and then you talk about that. And then you read read a passage about fear. Okay. Tell me what you got out of that.
Speaker 1:And then they'll share that, and then say, okay. How can this impact your week? How can we talk about this next week? And so I also think that environment matters. So like, hey, meet at a Starbucks, then go on a walk together.
Speaker 1:Then, I mean, just, like, it's okay to mix up the environments. I actually think that I think that that's a good thing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Hey. I would make a note too, Zach, that just when you're talking about this idea of time together where you're maybe just dealing with a specific issue that might come to the surface. And, man, there are those times when you think, gosh. What?
Speaker 2:I would love to be able to share the truth of God's words about this particular topic, and that is when you have the the benefit of being able to Google, you know, verses about. Right? Like, scripture dealing with depression or uncertainty or whatever. Take those opportunities. I think that kind of helps us instead of feeling like, oh, I don't know God's word.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I wanna actually use it because, listen, use those resources and find those things and and bring them to attention. And you again, maybe even midstream in a conversation, you may say, I don't really know how to continue to talk about that or or find I don't really know where where it speaks on that in in the Bible, but let's come back to that. Come back to that and make that a point of of let that letting that be something so that they can see the power of God's word.
Speaker 1:Number 9 is brought to you by openbible.com. That helps me a ton. Awesome. Like, you just type in openbible.com. It says, this is what the Bible says about blank.
Speaker 1:And you're like depression or, you know, lust or fear or anxiety or any of that's it. It just gives you every verse.
Speaker 2:I'm like, that's perfect.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Jesus. Also, John, what I just heard you say is it's okay to not know. Yeah. It's okay to not know. That's okay.
Speaker 1:And that speaks something that you don't have to have all of the answers. Absolutely. That's great. Number 10, which I think is kind of a piggyback off 9, ask a bunch of questions. So don't be the advice monster.
Speaker 1:We have we have kinda talked about that before, but just asking good questions. And the goal here is not to give them answers. The goal here is to help them process and to help them figure it out on their own because that's gonna last a whole lot longer. And you're giving the holy spirit room to move.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So I, 10 times out of 10, would prefer for them to hear what the lord has to say on it than what I have to say on it because me, not smart sometimes.
Speaker 2:You, not smart sometimes?
Speaker 1:Me, fail English. You. That's possible.
Speaker 2:Listen. Asking good questions can often be better than than declaring good statements, Kevin. Like, it's it's that kid is gonna come away from your time together, sometimes even more filled up because you've just asked really good questions, and you and you draw and you drew out from them some truths and some things for them to think about. So, man, the power of of a good question Mhmm. We cannot overstate.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's not about content. It's not about, hey. Today, we're gonna meet, and we're gonna we're gonna open up the book of James and read 6 chapters. Like, no.
Speaker 1:Like, just it's whatever the Lord wants to do there. And so asking good questions, and then when you feel like you've hit on something, just stop there. It's okay. And just I would prefer for them to get really deep on one topic than to get shallow on 10 topics.
Speaker 2:And some open ended questions are also better than some of these yes or no. Right?
Speaker 1:Yes. Do you love God?
Speaker 2:Yes. Alright. Great. Our time here, Sean. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Draw out that conversation. Really have your your mentee think. You know? Yes.
Speaker 1:Speaking of thinking, I think we're done.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:That's a long episode, guys. Thanks. Hey. Thanks a lot for sticking with this one.
Speaker 2:It was meaty. You know, if you
Speaker 1:guys are on the old treadmill or stair stepper, you guys got a good work habit on this one. Yeah. When was the last time that you were on a stair stepper, John?
Speaker 2:I don't know if I've ever been on on one of those. Is that 9. That's a that's a piece of of workout equipment. Correct. Oh, I will say this.
Speaker 2:I recently spent some time on on a rowing machine.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 1:That's good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you
Speaker 2:like that?
Speaker 1:I know. But it's good. It's kind
Speaker 2:of a full body thing. It is.
Speaker 1:It is. Alright. Top ten things that you need to know when you're mentoring relationship transitions into discipleship. That's what we talked about today. I hope you took notes.
Speaker 1:Share it. Go rate our podcast. Buy our books. Go to our website. Follow us on social media.
Speaker 1:Do everything that we're asking you to do right now.
Speaker 2:And, hey, listen. If you if you're of the, graphic artist designer nature, and you take a look at this incredible already logo, and you think, I might have some ideas for Zach. Is that is it okay if they reach out?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, yeah. But that's the last we want them to to do the first 7 things. Oh, yes.
Speaker 2:We're not soliciting Yeah. No. No. Soliciting graphic designers out there.
Speaker 1:Nope. But if you are one calls. It's all I got. John, I love you, and we're awesome. And we're awesome?
Speaker 1:What?
Speaker 2:I don't know why I don't know why
Speaker 1:I said that. I promise, guys, I'm not arrogant, but we're just gonna hop off. You can mentor.