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Dentists, Puns, and Money is a podcast focused on two things: The financial topics relevant to dentists leaving clinical practice and the stories and lessons of dentists who have already done so.
1. The stories of dentists who have transitioned from full-time clinical dentistry.
2. The financial topics that are relevant for dentists making that transition.
If you’re a dentist thinking about your exit from clinical, and you’d like to learn from the experiences of other dentists who have made that transition, be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast app.
Host Shawn Terrell also dives deep into the many financial components of exiting dentistry, including tax reduction strategies and how to live off your assets.
And, we try to keep it light by mixing in a bad joke… or two.
Please note: Dentists, Puns, and Money was previously known as The Practice Growth Podcast until March 2022.
Welcome to dentists, Puns, and Money. I am your host Shawn Terrell and my guest in this episode is Dr. Alan Stern. Dr. Allen is an owner dentist in Monmouth County, New Jersey, and is in the process of transitioning out of clinical dentistry. In our conversation, Dr. Alan shares the number one thing he's learned in 42 years of practice, which is also the big thing that he teaches to other dentists in his coaching program. The name of that program better, richer, stronger. Dr. Stern and I also discuss the four big relationships that are key to success and happiness in dentistry, and also in life. As a reminder, our company that does exit planning helps dentists lead and clinical with the financial peace. So that transition, specifically how to lower that massive lifetime tax bill and how to optimize living off your assets. If you're interested in guidance on your taxes and your income as you exit clinical schedule your free initial consultation with us on our website, which is dentist exit.com that website again, dentist exit.com And with that introduction I hope you enjoy my conversation with Dr. Alan Stern. Right Dr. Alan Stern. Welcome to dentists, ponds and money. I am excited for our conversation and thank you for joining us today. It was great to be here. Our our pre podcast conversation was wonderful. I can't wait to see what happens in the next few minutes. So thank you so much for having me. You're welcome. So just so the audience gets to know you a little bit better like I have just in our previous conversation. My favorite place to start is just with a little background, a little context for the audience on kind of your career within the dental profession to this point and where you are now. Right. Well, it's been a it's been a while practicing dentistry. I was born and raised in New York went to school at Virginia Commonwealth University, graduated in 1981. Which makes me 42 years. That's 42 years. As a practicing dentist. I am married I have two adult children. My wife is also the front desk person at my office so we live and work together. So me being here at home today working from home is kind of a relief from her while she sweated out of the office. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've had a lot of triumphs and like everybody else, you know, Sean, my career has been very, very good. Not wanting Yes. Having fun almost all the time. Have stressful moments. Just like you're just like everybody else. Yeah, of course. But I've grown I've learned. I've gotten up, dusted myself off. I rolled up my sleeves. I've done the work and here I am. 42 years later, better which was stronger. Oh, kind of leading that that's a really good lead up to the question I want to ask next. So you do have some perspective here from this decades long journey, as a dentist and as a human being, I guess, the broad intentionally what are some of the big things you've learned? And what would you share with people who are maybe on the early stages of the mid stage of their career versus where you are now? The things I've learned the most important thing I want to tell people, especially those practicing dentistry or any other profession, that you never, ever forget the reason why you went into it.
I went into it with a humanistic mind looking to do something meaningful for human beings. I lost track of that pursuit of money, or the pursuit of being something that I wasn't. When I stumbled. I will tell young dentists and dentists of all ages and sizes. Never forget the why. Don't be afraid to redefine the Why be afraid to be redefined. What gives you the why there has to be some humanistic element in what you're doing. Otherwise it becomes a trade and we didn't go to school for four years instead, let's dollars put in so much continuing education.
But don't forget that and don't forget, being good is not good enough. Gotta have some heart in the game. And you have that when you practice with love in your heart and with a sense of purpose and with a why and understanding that everyone walking into your office soul. It's something that is trusting you to give it to them. And it becomes potentially a much more rewarding and fulfilling career no matter what the external pressures are on what we're doing. How do you keep that intention on a regular basis? How do you check in with yourself to make sure that you are not forgetting your why, as you said you've sort of lost lost that for some period of time. So it's a practical way to make sure that someone is staying true to who they are, what their mission is. That's my purpose in life I put up in my bunk in front of my desk, in front of my face every day. General purpose in life is like this. It says let me continue to improve as a force for good wherever I go. No matter how excellent or fluid I may be in my face every single day. It's in my face in the treatment room as you might face in my office. And the only thing we do to team in our morning huddle is we read our mission. Our mission is to deliver the best chemistry possible. A warm, loving and happy environment. we center ourselves every day. I center myself, the hour looking at every human being that walks into my office looking into the eye with a big smile on my face by intent. It's really ingrained in me at this point that I'm happy to meet you. Mr. Terrell. Thanks for coming into the office today. It's great to see you at the end of each procedure. My farewell is it's always good when you're here. Thanks for being here. So it's a constant reminder. Powerful stuff. I like the idea of sort of that daily intention that morning huddle, making sure that that's always touched on and always stated to to make sure that you don't lose the mission or the mission is always front and center. You have a coaching program business outside of your clinical practice. It's called Better Richard stronger. Could you share who that program is for and what sort of work it does what's what the mission of that program is? That program is pretty clear. It's to help dentists find their focus again, to center on their mission and vision. When you rediscover when you discover what it is you really want on dentistry, my life becomes much happier. It's no secret, Shawn, that Dentistry has been pockmarked sadly, a propensity to depression and the end result of untreated depression is for the taking of one's own life. think too much of that in dentistry, both depression and suicide. We've seen too little of happiness and fulfillment. So having lost my sense of purpose and having found it by doing the work. I think I am uniquely qualified to have it as one has just picked themselves up and gotten to where I need to be in what I want where I want to be right now. I can help other people do that. One of the biggest pain points that you see dentists struggling with today. Comparison trap number one, you go to a Dental Society meeting, if you've been to one of those things shine or if you have clients who have but you go to dental school society and this is what you hear. Oh, my dentist ran out of gas this week. I've got to throw it away and buy a new one. Or the 10 carat diamond I got from my wife wasn't big enough. I don't know what to do. They're not literally things that are said but these are ways that we perceive what we're doing. Or maybe I plan I placed 12 implants in 30 minutes, two days a week and I have no idea where I want to go on vacation for the next five. That's the kind of stuff that we hear not necessarily what we hear. And we begin to compare ourselves to what we perceive as a perfect other person reality show and you know what, and I know what there is no such thing as a perfect life. Be a person whose life is a storybook and I'll show you a liar are all carrying things with us life is a mixture of blessing and burden. And if we allow our challenges to refine us, rather than define us, that's when we grow so the number one number one pain point is comparison syndrome. Wonder number two, all ears go around 1990 whenever if you have a political sense of history of humor. Number two is the perfection syndrome. Oh, my God, my work isn't perfect. Oh my god, the occlusal surface of the crowd is not polished to a complete and other sheen. Oh my god, the root canal field is a half millimeter shorter than it should be. The world is coming to an end because I saw on continuing education. The perfect crown the perfect root canal the perfect everything by Dr. X and I am no good.
Back to the matter is Brene Brown said I'm imperfect I'm enough there are very few things in dentistry that can't be corrected. And there are very few things in dentistry aren't good enough. It's just a matter of becoming better. We're not providers. By the way, that's a dirty word in my vocabulary. We're practitioners practice we want to be better tomorrow than we are today. This whole point of so perfection and comparison are the most pain points that needs to be conquered and I think you've hit the nail on the head based on what I've seen. I'm curious, in your experience, how much of that is the way that people that a lot of people stereotypically the personality type to become a dentist? Are they naturally wired that way? And then how much of it is the environment that is dentistry and other dental school classmates? I guess nature versus nurture is the short version of the question. Of course it's a combination of both. I think it's all good above my paygrade to know what percentage each other depends on each individual. But understand that getting into dental school is very competitive is what it always was, and still is. So we're always looking over our shoulders to see who's doing better than we are. Gauge ourselves on that again, a little subset of the comparison trap, but that that's all instructors are good people just like the rest of us. They're planning their way through the world just like we are. But the culture of dental school has always been to train people to to an impeccable perfect standard. That's perfectly cool. We should be able to be the best versions of ourselves. But when it gets to a point where the slightest flaw or imperfection perceived to be incompetence or hidden capability and ability, that's where we cross a very fuzzy line. And that's where we fall into trouble. So as an individual going to dental school, going to be competitive in nature. If we weren't competitive, we wouldn't even bother. So it's a little of both but I think if I were the God of dental schools would take all of my children, the dental school instructors and say Ladies and gentlemen, you guys are great. Let's take a quick thing and make it better. Let's tweak how we approach these kids, because they're raised a little bit differently than we were back in the geezer generation that we belong to. So let's take a little bit more and let's take a forehand but just put a little bit of a rubber bumper on it. And let's see if we can nurture these kids into being the best they can be like that. That's how you lay that out. A lot of things I wanted to touch on is that dentistry and I think most successful businesses for that matter are really at the end of the day successful because of strong relationships. Yes, you say that there are four Cornerstone relationships that every dentist needs for a successful life. Touch on those. First one is your health. Health is critical.
We skip over that for a moment of core critical relationships with a practice or yourself yourself. Patients business finance subset of yourself includes yourself. You have to in order to fabricate relationships that are important, you need to start with yourself. Need to love yourself before you can love anybody. Else. Take care of yourself physically and emotionally. That also means physiotherapist if you need to. I just re injured my shoulder I've got to go see a therapist so I could do that 10 minute bike before my 16th birthday, a couple of months. So if you injure your brain, don't do that. So yourself is one of your practice. You got to keep an eye on your practice. You have to know your practice. You have to know your numbers. I'm weak at that. I need professionals to help me with that because one of the key points about eliminating some needless stress from your life. Eliminating money as a limiting variable, not tell your true story. I bought a house that I couldn't afford to buy because I was miserable. I bought a house, prove myself to myself and what round up happening is the growth of my practice did not go it was projected from paycheck to paycheck. You want to talk history. You talk about biting your nails, whether you're going to make payroll that does not need to happen. live below your means. All the professional, live below your means once your health your yourself, practice for money and your relationships, your fourth Cornerstone your relationships with others once you are liberated the burden of relationship with self relationship with money relationship with practice, and you can call him forge a relationship with others. And you know what Shawn, the true joy of life is what you and I are doing what you and I did before we got on here, a little bromance moment.
We have some fun together. And why can't we have that in our practice in our teams and with our patients when no one leaves my office without either a rolling eye or a laugh? Because it's about relationships. Concur? Absolutely. I concur. And that's what I enjoy most about in my work as well. Let me throw one other thing to find at least is you have relationships with the people you serve as a side above my receptionist that says enter with strangers leave as friends. And when people asked me well how many patients you have in your practice, right in comparison syndrome again.
My answer is I don't have very many patients now I have friends. That is fun. It's fun. So when I told you that I greet people with a smile, sincere smile, I greet them. I send them off with it. I mean it. Enjoy your life. And those are the four cornerstones of success. I love it. Great stuff. Oh, shifting gears a little bit. This podcast is increasingly more and more about the topics and the people that are in the process somewhere in the process of transitioning away from clinical, whatever is next, whether that's continued work in the profession of dentistry or outside doing something else, or whether it's traditional retirement and chasing the grandkids around stereotypically, you have shared with me that you are more than that transition. And I'm curious for the benefit of the audience that is here to hear a little more about that. What are What's that process going like for you and what are some of the things you've learned?
Going back to the mistakes that I made? kind of forgot that we in this country are endowed with three unalienable rights to life, the life rental liberty, and the pursuit of attachment goal.
Sort of because no, we're entitled to pursue happiness. I'm entitled to get it we're entitled to pursue it. So I'm looking at the stage of my life now. I am approaching 6010 years old, 32 years in practice, and I'm reasonably good at it. There's other things that I want. It's really it's a combination of a process of deep soul searching and stumbling into an answer for me. So right now I am faced I faced into three days of clinical work of a lovely young associate, working in my office on Thursdays and we happen to be shaking on Thursday, and finding more and more happiness and tranquility, in my coaching, doing my testing and speaking on podcasts, doing my own video casting, doing my own speaking and writing and it's leading me down that path that pretty soon I'm gonna let go of another day and at some point, I'm going to sell the practice. I'm torn between two lovers. It's a song from the 70s. And, you know, I love my patients. I love the people I work with. I love the stuff I'm doing now. So it's almost like a little mini earthquake starting to build a positive earthquake. So I'm just transitioning I'm stepping down a little bit. I'm turning the volume down on my clinical dentistry, letting go with complex procedures because not enough of them. Just want shown to do some show dentistry for a while and amp it up doing my coaching for me life is without purpose. Life is about nificant life. It's about being a force for good wherever I go. Some of my friends have retired both in and out of dentistry and they're very content sitting and sitting in shorts unfortunate. There's nothing wrong with that. That's what you want. It's about it's about understanding that your shelf life is limited as a clinician physically, emotionally and mentally and preparing for that. Really trying to figure out what it is you want to do at that next phase of your life. For me, it became it's a combination of a process, but it's very simple for me, my fantasy is to have breakfast, out on a patio somewhere, do some coaching, do some working, do some reading, improve myself every day. Have a little fun with my wife and visit my children and please somebody please give me a grandchild already.
So it sounds like you've defined sort of what your ideal day is post clinical. And yeah, you're working towards that.
Yes, exactly. And it's short. I don't have it all figured out yet. And frankly, I don't think I ever will because I think life is a process of constant refinement. And we have to know that as practicing dentists also whether we're owners or associate dentists, life is a constant process of course correction. So I am sharpening up my my Thursday through my Fridays. Now, I'm really coordinating off reading time, productive time, reading time, exercise time, and time. It's going to be a struggle until I am totally out of practice. And then I'll have five days of structure to deal with instead of two. And I have a little more time to play around with but it's hard. I don't know what challenges you're gonna face me when I'm five days out of practice. I got my principles and I know what I want to do. So the financial aspect of that exit out is obviously what my experience and expertise is and what are the other areas that you've thought about or tried to evaluate all that transition besides just the money aspect of it. The money is critical.
That's first and foremost and the work that you're doing. can't overemphasize how critical it is. I think the younger people here to understand that they're not invincible, and things won't just fall into place without some clear, well defined action, not a good financial adviser, almost like trying to demonstrate that going to dental school. Some people do it but it doesn't work out very well. The other the other things that you need to understand you have to know what makes you happy. There are exercises exercises that you can do to clarify in your own mind, what makes you happy what your values are, gives you energy also and possibly working on maintaining my body, its most optimal condition. That means we're on the gym a few times we'll be working out as hard as I can, within reason. I just got pronounced very clean cardiac was very strong in that regard. So I could push pretty hard for for a guy who's in seventh decade. The health is very important. And the fun meter gotta have a fun meter. And for me right now fun is just hanging out with my wife was watching a TV show talking. Our kids moved away. So we've got trips planned down to Atlanta, visit our daughter very soon. We just came back from home. Gotta go back down there again to visit our son in DC closest circle of friends. That's where I'm centered. Horses Do you want to two trips to Las Vegas annually is also part of that. Well, that's another that's another bit of financial advice perhaps you can give me we have bonded over our shared love of Vegas. We will we'll save that for a different podcast but yeah, I think that's awesome. You have that the fun part built in as well. Something a little bit ago that your shelf life is a clinical dentist is is limited and I kind of chuckled because that you also told me around that same breath that you're pushing seven years old, or was your 6010 as you'd like to offend my guests, but yeah, so you've had a pretty good run in the chair. And I'm curious kind of with that. What were the signs that you saw leading up to it that sort of helped you to come to the realization around your 60/10 birthday, that you start kind of weighing things down to start thinking a little harder about what you want last a third of your life to look like the last half of my life because I keep myself this way. Yeah, so I didn't look in a box.
You know, Agent agent, our, you know, our shelf life as human beings is limited. That's part of it. By the way. That is realizing that I'm approaching 60 times and we are finite. So there's a little bit of a nudge inside of me to somewhere else to go somewhere else in life. I think the finding the founding of better, richer, stronger is really what gave me the final push in my mind toward the end of my career as I am now and last couple of years. Say myself. Is there something else you want to do? Well, there's something else and the answer pop right in funny. So I'm driven. I'm driven by purpose. And I feel that with coaching right now, I have a renewed spark. You know, you've been doing something for a very long time it becomes kind of matter of fact routine, and then the stress begins to equal overpower you in the routine, looking for different stressors. I've done my share of dentistry. I feel the world is changing. field of dentistry is changing. And my paradigm of it as a day to day practitioner. I'm not sure I want to roll with those changes anymore. I think the younger dentists are better equipped to deal with those changes that I am. It's kind of like our parents said, our parents couldn't handle the crazy world that we grew up with. I'm looking at my kids and the challenges they're facing. I'm saying I want to deal with that crap. I say crap.
You're, it's rolling off of them. This tells me that we can do this. So the world is changing the need for things that I do the things that I know in my soul, that I don't have to express dental instruments growing rapidly. But all these things are nudging me. They're pushing me but the final push was a creation of better, richer, stronger, and I am not as quick as I used to be. I can't be as rapidly productive as I used to be. I can think better, but I can't produce faster. So all of those things are adding up to saying now you're on deck nine, get over. Everything we haven't had on today. We've been we bounced around pretty good, but are there anything that you'd like to share or add that we've left out? Remember, remember your wife? Remember, please hear so much on social media we see so much on social media, people's successes and their beautiful things, highlight reels.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Somebody who's doing is making more money or appears to be happy. Why should you compare yourself to that? Happy for other people's successes. Don't you dare take somebody else's strengths and say compare your weaknesses to them. The best you can be be grateful and so grateful. He's 69 years old. So the energy level that I have for doing these things. I'm so grateful to be married almost 46 years. Same woman who got five good years out of it by the way. I'm so grateful for my kids, my friends. Fun. Everybody's got at least three things they could be grateful for every freaking night before they get the pillow. practice gratitude. The rest of your problems rationally. Just keep moving forward and enjoy my book. Enjoy the ride. But remember the greatness is in the journey, not in the outcome. There's a big one right there. For greatness is in your journey. Celebrate every day your breathing is where it's the name of the podcast is dentists puns and money we've had a few light moments in our conversation but with your your best dental pun as we wrap it back around the corniest one is what's the best time to have a dental appointment. That's 230 Let's see the people talking about their back molars. I don't know if anybody has a front molar. That doesn't make any sense at all. Others with your dental related having talked offline with you I'm gonna cut you off right there because I don't want to get too blue here with you, Dr. Alan, for people that are interested in getting in touch with you and start a conversation with you about your program or just anything else that you're willing to share. And what's the best way to get in touch with you. Please get on my Facebook page. It's called better, richer, stronger. You can direct message me through there. And I've got some great content on there. We have great learning opportunities, and I'll have a virtual coffee with anybody. For those things. I don't want any money. I don't want anything other than the ability to listen and maybe open your eyes to something better, which is stronger Gmail is my email address find any way you want. This is my purpose. This is my calling. I am more than happy to spend some time with you. That is Dr. Alan stern dentist and founder of the coaching business better, richer, stronger. Dr. Allen thank you for sharing your story, your expertise and for being our guest on dentists puns and money. Always a pleasure. Thanks for listening and following along. Are you a dentist nearing your retirement from clinical or have you already hung up your handpiece Would you like a treatment plan for the financial components of your exit from clinical? Our company that does exit planning helps dentists like you reduce taxes in retirement and optimize how to best live off your assets including the ideal time for you to start taking Social Security. If you'd like guidance on those critical pieces, or just a second opinion, schedule an initial consultation with us on our website. Our web address is dentists. exit.com And there's no obligation for your initial consultation, that website again dentists exit.com. As a reminder dentist Exit Planning Antero advisors LLC is a registered investment advisor. The information presented should not be interpreted or construed as investment, legal tax, financial planning or wealth management advice. It does not substitute for personalized investment or financial planning from dentist Exit Planning or Carroll advisors LLC. Please consult with your accountant and attorney for tax and legal advice. This podcast conveys the views and opinions of Sean Terrell and his guests and the information herein should not be considered a solicitation to engage in a particular investment tax planning or financial planning strategy. information presented is for educational purposes only and past performance is not indicative of future results.
Keywords: dentists, dentistry, life, practice, people, dental school, relationships, stronger, money, clinical, coaching, podcast, transition, office, bit, exit, richer, allen, perceive, happy