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On Cornerstone Conversations, we explore the unique dynamic of fathers and sons who work together, whether they built something from scratch or carried something forward.
Our mission is to create a space for intentional conversation and storytelling around family business transitions and legacy by enabling more dads to see working with their kids as a discipleship opportunity and more sons to see working with dad as an honor, not a handout.
Learn more about Cornerstone Coaching at www.cornerstoneco.com
Kile Graves: [00:00:00] Welcome to Cornerstone Conversations, where we discuss timely topics impacting communities, cultures, and economies. First topic we're gonna dive into in this series is family business. Currently, there are thirty-two million family businesses in the US generating over half of our GDP as a country. They also employ eighty-three million people.
What's interesting is only thirty percent of family businesses make it to the second generation, and only twelve percent make it to the third. You've probably heard of the great wealth transfer that is taking place across the globe in the next five to seven years. Forty percent of all the small businesses in the US are owned by a baby boomer who is reaching retirement age pretty soon.
As coaches, we're really interested in what those impacts do to communities and cultures at large. We've had the privilege of walking alongside a lot of family business leaders over the past few years, and we believe this major intersection is something that can really, uh, impact communities well. We're gonna talk to six, uh, dads and sons that are working together and are trying to navigate what it means as a [00:01:00] son to carry forward what their dad started, and as dads trying to let go of something that they've held onto for so long John and Max Harrell, thank you guys for, for coming and, uh, sitting down with us.
Y'all are the last conversation we'll record. Um, and there's been kind of two broad categories of family businesses that we've spoken with. The first, uh, is legacy business, so that's you guys, multi-generational, uh, business. And then the second broad category is what we call a joint family venture. So this is, um, this is a dad and son go and start something new together.
So this is like if you guys quit banking and then went and started a restaurant just out of the blue. Um, and we have three father-son duos that are this legacy business like you guys, and then three have been in this joint family venture. And so, uh, you guys are really fun because most... Two of the other families we've talked to, they're second or third generation at max.
Uh, you guys are six generations, um, into this thing, which is really rare. [00:02:00] I mean, I'm sure you've seen all the stats on family businesses before, but, uh, 30% makes it to the second generation, 12 makes it to the third, and then three makes it to the fourth. So you guys are doing something right. Uh-
Jon Harrell: Must be something unique about banking, 'cause I have run into at least one other Bank that has a very similar background to ours.
I mean, literally father's fifth generation- Oh, wow ... and the son is, is sixth. Hmm.
Steve Graves: What do you think, John? Is it because- Yeah ... is it because it's, it's so structured and regulated and so much... I mean, what, I mean, how, I wonder why it breaks the- I, I, I think- ... national averages on it ...
Jon Harrell: a little bit of that.
Obviously it's very structured, regulated. It's kinda hard to screw up.
Steve Graves: Okay.
Jon Harrell: It's kinda hard kinda hard to run it in the ground. Yeah. I mean, people, regulators, and auditors step in to ensure you are doing things properly. I think just the evolution of the business has changed. I think a little bit once you hear our story, it kind of evolves from just a [00:03:00] community bank serving the community to, you know, a real nice return for shareholders and, and moving into markets that provide more opportunity, and just scale at some point provides more opportunity for subsequent generations and for the shareholders and-
Kile Graves: Potential, yeah
Jon Harrell: 'cause it's not only just working together family, but it's the evolution of the ownership- Right ... of the family that also evolves with this and, and their needs-
Steve Graves: Mm-hmm ...
Jon Harrell: is something that we have to factor in based on a lot of the decisions that we make.
Steve Graves: Yeah. Right. Well, just kick us off. Get ju- go back and do the wind
Jon Harrell: it, wind it up.
Go back to, go back to 1907? Yeah. All right. Give us the, give us the brief overview. Wind it up. Okay. Well, back in the, when, when the world was black and white in 1907. Yeah. Um, my, my great-grandfather and his uncle started the bank in literally a little town, at that time not even incorporated, but was a railroad stop that a lot of commerce would come through.
And I think my [00:04:00] great-grandmother or her mother, someone had a mercantile store there, and was just very hospitable to a lot of the folks that would stop by and need to transact business of whatever kind there at that little railroad stop. And so eventually they incorporated the town, and her last name was Harrell, so they actually named the town Harrell, Arkansas.
Steve Graves: Okay.
Jon Harrell: Hmm. Which is in Calhoun County, Arkansas, which is the most rural county in the state of Arkansas, which is in itself a very rural state.
Steve Graves: Yeah. Okay.
Jon Harrell: So very, very humble beg- beginnings. But, uh, actually my, um- Great-grandfather and his uncle, so you get generations one and two kind of started the bank at the same time, and operated the bank there in Harrell until 1932 when they moved to the county seat of Hampton, Arkansas.
And at that point, my gr- my grandfather kinda comes onto the scene, and he was a career banker [00:05:00] his whole life, and worked there at, at Hampton, and he was the consummate community banker. He always wore a tie. In the winter, he'd wear a long-sleeve shirt with a tie. In the summer, he'd wear a short-sleeve shirt with a tie.
And so, but he was always adorned properly, uh, man of the community. First name was Searcy, and I-- everyone in that town referred to him as Mr. Searcy. It wasn't Mr. Harrell, it was Mr. Searcy. And he was just a very distinguished man, and I had the privilege to know him well and to work there. I worked there in the summers, kinda when I got out of college and getting into the finance world, so I had the opportunity to work with him, and that, that was just a pleasure.
He was just a delightful man. I have such good memories there. And my father was a practicing attorney in a nearby town named Camden, Arkansas. We still have locations in these towns. Not Harrell, but Camden and Hampton, and we're proud to have them down there. They're gr- great, great communities and, and great people live [00:06:00] there, and we're proud to serve them.
My father was a full-time practicing attorney, so he was never in the bank on a day-to-day basis, but he was involved and took great pride in the bank, and the pride that, you know, he, he's, he was from Hampton, so he wanted to support that town, wanted the bank to be the consummate community bank and, and they were.
They supported local barn sales, uh, livestock auctions, uh, all things related to school and counties, and they, they were really the backbone of that community and still are, by the way, and we're very proud of that. Um, but my, my father was an attorney, a good businessman. Um, I wouldn't say he was a great banker.
There's a little more to it. He had great business instincts, but You know, as far as banking or vision for the bank, his vision was, "Hey, I wanna keep the bank in the family, a source of pride to support the community." And that was great. I mean, it was. [00:07:00] Um, so we-- Once my grandfather passed away in the late '80s, dad took over as chairman of the bank at that time.
I was just kinda rolling out of college, got out-- graduated University of Arkansas in 1988 with a banking and finance degree. Um, started in accounting. Got into those more complex accounting classes. I said, "Well, I don't think I wanna go that route." I don't think anyone wants to. So why not go into banking?
My family's been in that business, and it's treated us well. I really never thought I would go back to, uh, our South Arkansas locations. I think I was dreaming bigger, and so it was just kinda... Just made sense to go in that business, but wasn't sh- wasn't at that time definitely going back to our family-owned bank.
I was gonna look for bigger opportunities, I think, and got out of school. Uh, worked for the Arkansas State Bank Department as a bank examiner for three years. Met a lot of great people, a lot of great [00:08:00] contacts, uh, which I still have the opportunity to work with in this industry. So real proud of those years and, and, uh, the relationships that I formed And, and, and got married.
And so that life on the road hit the wall. Um, but it made sense to settle down, spend some time with her, and kind of start, start thinking about what life looks like settled down with being married. And, um, so had an opportunity to move back to South Arkansas, which is certainly my roots. And I-- one thing I said I wouldn't do, I did.
We moved down there and we did expand. We branched into Camden, Arkansas, bought a little bank in Junction City, Arkansas. All these towns we still have locations in. Um, so that's our heritage and our roots. And worked there starting nineteen ninety-two. Uh, young Max was born in nineteen ninety-five. [00:09:00] Um, and so we, we were able to grow, grow that footprint as much as we could in, in those Sou-South Arkansas locations.
Was real proud of what we did. Um, and then at, at that point, we, we kinda had two banks. I mentioned we bought a bank in Junction City, and we still had our bank in Hampton. So we were approached by an-another group of people that were actually starting a bank in Northwest Arkansas about buying one of those bank charters, 'cause they did have value at the time.
They necessarily don't anymore, but at that time, that piece of paper had value. And so we sold that group, uh, the charter of one of the banks, merged our banks into one. And kind of during that whole process, I was approached about moving to Northwest Arkansas, running one of the bank locations for, for that startup bank.
And, uh, to this day, made the most difficult decision I [00:10:00] have made in my life. I hope many don't get more difficult, they may. But did tell my father that I was leaving, at that time, the, uh, family-owned business to kinda go chase a dream. That thing I thought I'd do in college, I guess it came back and decided I'd scratch the itch.
So did that, moved up to Northwest Arkansas two thousand and five. Economy in Northwest Arkansas gets a little bumpy about two thousand eight, nine, ten. Bank gets in a little distress, distressed situation, needs to go in and, and, you know, the idea of corporate strategy at that point was to shrink, shrink the bank.
So I said, "Hey, why don't you sell a couple of your branches and some of your assets and liabilities to the family-owned bank, uh, the Harrell family-owned bank, and we'll help you guys out, give you the opportunity to heal and, and come back and still accomplish the things you want to, but give Generations, or what will soon be Generations Bank, the [00:11:00] opportunity to move to Northwest Arkansas and And, and see where it goes from there.
Steve Graves: So John, time out. Hang
Jon Harrell: on. This is 2010 that, that I- Were
Steve Graves: the early days, was it Harrell Bank? What was the name of the bank in the earliest days?
Jon Harrell: Well, it was Calhoun County Bank. It was- Okay.
Steve Graves: So it was the county, it was the bank.
Jon Harrell: Calhoun County Bank. Got it. Got it. And so when we moved- So there was
Steve Graves: no generations-
Jon Harrell: No
Steve Graves: before any of that?
Jon Harrell: Yeah. Okay. When we moved to Northwest Arkansas or bought the locations, we were First Bank.
Steve Graves: Okay.
Jon Harrell: Just like you'd see in a Western movie. Just kind of said bank on top of the building. Yeah. That's kind of what it, that's kind of what it felt like at the time.
Steve Graves: That's hilarious.
Jon Harrell: But, uh, but it worked, and so we were able to come up here.
We had some real good people that we were working with, so we were able to grow. And so, um, just kind of continued to grow with Northwest Arkansas. The economy got better, and we know what it's evolved to today. So the bank has really thrived in these markets. We've continued to branch, uh, built branches in Fayetteville, in [00:12:00] Bentonville.
We have locations in Siloam Springs and Rogers. We bought another bank in 2014 in Van Buren, and what about four years ago, bought a bank in Cameron, Missouri. So we're a multi-state bank at this time.
Steve Graves: There you go. All right. There you go.
Jon Harrell: So, uh, so that, that's kind of how the bank evolved. And getting back to me more specifically, um, certainly I'm working at the bank and like I said, Dad's still chairman and, and he
You know, like I said, that decision to move, it, it wasn't the greatest moment of his life, and, and our, our relationship was strained. Um, and I under- I understood. I get it. I think he was more upset about me moving his grandkids away from him than he was my, me leaving. But, um- Absolutely ... the... I, I will never forget this.
When I called him in 2010 and said, "Hey, I got an idea. I think maybe we should approach, approach [00:13:00] the bank about buying two of their branches and, and, and, and establishing a market in northwest Arkansas," he said, "Let's do it." Didn't hesitate, fully behind the decision. And so that, that support meant a lot. I mean, he could've said a lot of things, but, but he didn't, and, uh, I will always remember that.
Uh, tragically, he passed away very suddenly in, uh, 2013 in a plane crash, and, um, and he, he would still be here today. I don't know if he'd let me do all the things I've done with the bank. But he'd be here today, and he, he would probably be sitting here to my left, or he may have just booted me out of here.
He may be sitting here with Max.
Steve Graves: Yeah.
Jon Harrell: But, uh, I, I know he'd be proud of what we've done.
Steve Graves: So John- It's cool ... when that happened, did you step immediately into the s- to the, to the CEO
Jon Harrell: role?
Steve Graves: I, I
Jon Harrell: ascended to the chairman CE role, CEO role
Steve Graves: immediately. Immediately. Yes. Okay, so there wasn't some transition of someone else.
Jon Harrell: No.
Steve Graves: So you stepped in and here we go. Okay.
Jon Harrell: Said, "Let's go."
Steve Graves: So you've been in the [00:14:00] CEO role since '13.
Jon Harrell: Correct.
Steve Graves: Okay.
Jon Harrell: Yeah, and that was real... I mean, the shareholders were really... I was honored they had this belief in me that I could do it, 'cause I'd never done it.
Steve Graves: Right.
Jon Harrell: Yeah. I mean, I didn't, you know, I didn't really have a, a program or an apprenticeship into this deal.
Said, "All right. Buckle up. It's your time." And so I was honored, and I've surrounded myself with really good people and got some good advice, and we've been very blessed to continue to take this to a level I know he would be very proud of, and my grandfather and my great-grandfather and his uncle, I know they'd be real proud of what we've done, how we've done it, and the kind of people we have working at the bank.
Kile Graves: The Jim Walcott Center is one of only about 50 organizations in the country dedicated specifically to family enterprise, bringing business owners and next generation leaders together to navigate the kinds of transitions we talk about on this show. I've gotten to know their director, Justin Smith, well over the past few months, and have a lot of respect for what he's building there.
If you're [00:15:00] looking for a community of people who get it, they're worth knowing about. You can learn more at uafs.edu.
Was the expectation that you would come work at the family bank and then you decided not to, or was-
Jon Harrell: I, I don't-
Kile Graves: Wasn't
Jon Harrell: kind of, wasn't there ... think the expectation ever was there. There was an opportunity to buy a little branch in Camden and, um, of course, Dad was from there and he had a lot of contacts- Right
had a couple small businesses. So it, it made sense to do what we did at the time.
Kile Graves: Yeah.
Jon Harrell: But without that opportunity, I don't, I don't think I would've moved back to live in Hampton-
Kile Graves: Yeah ...
Jon Harrell: and run the bank. I don't believe that would've happened.
Kile Graves: Yeah. That makes sense. Uh, Max, so give us your, your journey, kind of your story, how...
Maybe the same version of your dad's story, but yours, just kind of where-
Max Harrell: Sure ...
Kile Graves: how you ended up here.
Max Harrell: Yeah.
Kile Graves: You know, was there a version where you didn't come here and then you had to come full circle back- Sure ... back to the family business?
Max Harrell: [00:16:00] Yeah. No, my line's a little straighter than his, I think. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, so obviously, you know, family, family legacy, family asset, it's something they talk about when you're around family, um, you know, Christmas or-
Kile Graves: Yeah
Max Harrell: Easter or whatever you got going on. Uh, "You gonna run the bank someday?" 12, I have no idea. Um- I don't know anything yet You're like, "Oh, we're hitting this afternoon. Let's all go." Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Can, can I throw a pitch over the plate? That's where more, I'm more worried about. Um, but no, I, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's one of those things where, you know, you, you, you probably don't start taking it very seriously, but it's always in the back of, back of your mind through just ancillary conversations, I guess.
Yeah. And so, um, you know, as I started kind of evolving towards picking career path through, you know, early on prior to [00:17:00] college or kind of through college, uh, really the kind of the, the first catalyst is, um, we decided to rename to Generations Bank. Well, there might've been a little bit of forward, you know, thinking there- Foreshadowing, yeah
some foreshadowing. Yeah. In the name. I, I think I was 18 at the time trying to figure out what I wanted to do in life, and they're like, "Oh, hey, what, what if, what do you think about naming it Generations Bank?"
Kile Graves: Yeah.
Max Harrell: Okay. Uh- Yeah. You know, I love the name now. Uh, but at the time I was like, man, either I've gotta do this or somebody else does.
Um, but no, they're, you know, I'm, I'm the oldest cousin, kind of the oldest grandchild, really kind of the oldest of the next generation on that side. Got it. And so, um, you know, two things. One, one, that's a tremendous privilege, um, and, uh, opportunity. And then the other part is, yeah, there's a little bit of, uh, you know, I think they kinda look at you go, "Hey, are you gonna do this?"
Yeah. Um, so, uh, anyways, all, all that [00:18:00] being said, there wasn't a tremendous amount of pressure or any of that kind of stuff. It just was one of those things that's in the back of your mind. Yeah. So I go through college, um, have... I think I have every indication. I major in business, banking, and finance. Um, and, uh, and I think-
Steve Graves: Time out.
Hold on.
Max Harrell: Yeah.
Steve Graves: Was there ever an- another major that had any interest to you, or you, you just like locked in because you had interest and wanted it and-
Max Harrell: Yeah. So, um- When football and basketball didn't work out- ... I had a pretty good feeling that, uh, that either banking or some sort of business degree was- Mm-hmm.
Yes. So no, not, not, not necessarily.
Steve Graves: Got
Max Harrell: it. Um, no, I, I still have my golf clubs, but that's about all I have- ... is with them. Um, and o- one kinda interesting little, little kinda caveat of this is, uh, banking and finance major, banking and finance major, we had the same teacher.
Steve Graves: Wow. Whoa.
Max Harrell: Um, and he-
Steve Graves: That's fun.
Maybe. Yeah.
Max Harrell: And your, your dad, my grandad also had the same teacher. He taught all three [00:19:00] of us. Whoa. Wow. Uh, yeah. Wow. Which is pretty cool, at the university. Um- That's really
Steve Graves: wild. Who was
Kile Graves: it?
Max Harrell: Um- Remember his name? Dr. Dominick. Dr. Dominick, yeah. Dr. Dominick. Wow. John Dominick, uh, was his name, which is kinda cool.
Kile Graves: That's a crazy stat.
Max Harrell: So did you, were you, like, interning at the bank, like
Kile Graves: high
Max Harrell: school or junior high days? Yeah, so yeah, I worked, I worked there kinda like he said, summers and, and holidays and stuff. Summer. Yeah. Uh, you know, kinda worked, um, as a teller there. And then, um, as I kinda started progressing through college, I, I was, I came on as kind of a part-time credit analyst there for a little while.
Um, and then, uh, the illustrious title of, I think it was, uh, loan loan administration intern or something. I, I don't know even what the title was. They made it up. They told me they made it up.
Kile Graves: Yeah.
Max Harrell: Um, and I didn't get paid anything for it, so I knew it was made up.
Kile Graves: There you go. Yeah, yeah.
Max Harrell: But, uh, but I got to, to hang out and kind of learn, kind of absorb some through osmosis.
And, and I really, you know, like he kind of said, I really, like, revered my [00:20:00] grandfather growing up, and he was always kind of the, like he said for his grandfather, the consummate man in the community. And, and that, you know, that's attractive to a, to a young male growing up. And so, and then I got to watch my father do it and, um, you know, the respect that he was able to garner in the community by the things he did.
And, you know, there's kind of an, an, an allure or an aura that comes with, you know, a banker. Um, and some good, some not so good. Yeah. Uh, but, but the good parts are what I got to experience. Right. And so, you know, it was all in the back of my mind. And then, um, you know, kind of graduate college and then decide, uh, you know, hey, what do I, what do I want to do here, um, as I'm, as I'm, you know, kind of going through that process.
And actually interviewed, uh, to, you know, kind of work in, in, uh, the CPG world, the supplier world. I thought I might try to, you know, do something for a little while that's not-
Kile Graves: This ...
Max Harrell: this.
Kile Graves: Uh-huh.
Max Harrell: Um, and, uh, I don't know if this is the, the, the Lord telling me, um, you know, "You need to just go ahead and step into banking," or [00:21:00] what, but, uh, it was...
They... The interview that I had, I thought was for a position in, in Rogers, which is, you know, where I'm, where I'm from, and, uh, they said, "Oh no, actually this will be in Fort Smith." I said, "Hmm."
Kile Graves: Well, thanks. "
Max Harrell: Well, no, no, thanks. I appreciate it," um, in a great place. Yeah. But, uh, but not, not something I was, I was, um, looking forward to, you know- Yeah
um, at that time. So we had a conversation and, uh, you know, kind of one of those moments again where I looked at him and I said, "Well-" What do you think? You okay with me coming to work for, for the bank, or do you think I need to go try to work somewhere else? Or, you know, what does this look like?" And we had this conversation, and he said, "Well, I hate to say this, son, but nobody's gonna hire you."
And I said... It took me a sec to go, "All right."
Kile Graves: Yeah.
Max Harrell: Like, am I a poor employee? Do you know something about me I don't know? Yeah. Um, and I think very, [00:22:00] very, uh, uh, astutely he said, "I don't think anyone's gonna pour their heart and soul to try to train you to come back to me in our bank."
Kile Graves: Yeah.
Max Harrell: Yeah. I was like, "That's probably pretty wise."
Some good
Kile Graves: foresight.
Max Harrell: Yeah. Yeah.
Kile Graves: So when you were growing up and then high school, college, like when did you feel like you understood the business model of the bank? I mean, I can imagine if you're around- Yeah ... even just a second generation, like no one knows what coaching is anyways. It's this weird, ambiguous- Sure
job. But I would pick up on stuff just, you know, by proxy.
Max Harrell: Yeah.
Kile Graves: But I can imagine with multiple generations in the same industry, you feel like you picked up on how the business worked quicker, or was it really just kind of like everyone else, you get to college and you kind of start to understand-
Max Harrell: Yeah
Kile Graves: how things work?
Max Harrell: Yeah. Um, I think you absorb some through osmosis, you know- Yeah ... just the, the conversation that you get to be part of. Um, but I wouldn't have said it was a, a, you know, kind of a major, um, advantage to being around... It's not something we had conversations about on the back porch by any stretch of the imagination.
Kile Graves: [00:23:00] Yeah.
Max Harrell: Um, it was more, it was more my understanding of the influences in my life being, uh, being well-represented in, and they, they happen to also be bankers, if that makes sense. Yeah. Um, and so that's who he spent a lot of time around, so, you know, not just, not just our, our family bank, but there were other bankers that he spent time around.
Uh, some of his old, uh, banking department friends, like, those might be the people that come up and play in a golf tournament. So I spent time around more bankers than normal. We weren't necessarily talking about assets and liabilities.
Steve Graves: Yeah.
Max Harrell: But, um, I started to, you know, have an appreciation for those individuals because of who they were, and I felt like it mattered to me on who I wanted to be as a man or who I wanted to be as an individual, and that seemed to line up with the banking profession pretty well.
Steve Graves: Yeah. So. Yeah. So the transition, guys, um, help, help us understand a little bit of how you [00:24:00] both, John, particularly you, but how you were thinking about, um, at Generations Bank, we have the next generation leader on board. And so, you know, 'cause, 'cause, you know, the, the current generation can, can think about it like, you know, "He's the next gen, let's just get him in here and, and just rock him to the top as fast as possible."
Other people would be like, "Nope, you know, you, you get a promotion every time you deserve one," or whatever. You know, other people are like... I mean, there's just so many different ways- Mm-hmm ... to think about it. How, how, h- because you had all these generations behind you, and it wasn't like you're just, we're gen one with nothing behind you, how did you think about Max coming in, um, into the bank system and his career path and the timing and expectations and all that?
What, how, how'd you, what was going on? Un- Well- ... unpack that for us. I- If you can.
Jon Harrell: Well, I, I'll come up with whatever I, [00:25:00] I think. One thing I gotta tell you, though, when he did get out of school and we were looking at these options, he said, he said, "Now, I'm expecting a formal written offer." So I had to come up with a formal written offer and- There you go.
Yeah.
Max Harrell: He needed a real one.
Jon Harrell: That's right.
Max Harrell: You gotta, you gotta set the foundation somewhere, right?
Jon Harrell: Yeah.
Steve Graves: You get,
Jon Harrell: you get the- You need something to sign.
Max Harrell: Yeah. Yeah. I called my mom.
Jon Harrell: There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's
Steve Graves: awesome.
Jon Harrell: Well, certainly, I don't remember, did you ever work as a, did you work as a teller in, in college or high school?
Steve Graves: Yeah.
Jon Harrell: Okay. Okay. Certainly that's where I started. Okay. I mean- Yeah ... back in the day, so and I think that's always the, the best place to start. I think you learn, you... First of all, it's frontline work, which is excellent. That's where some of our better people work and still work, 'cause they are a very forward-facing part of our bank.
Your tellers, your new account reps, and folks that really talk to the people on a day-to-day basis. So I always thought that's, that's where you should start. That's where I started. I'm not, I can't go back previous generations. I, I doubt my dad ever worked a teller window, but, uh- ... [00:26:00] but I did, and I think that's a great way to start.
Now, certainly the bank- That I work for is a lot different from the one that he started with. But I do think, I do think there's a certain aspect of how you gotta work your way up. And I think I-- certainly that was in my mindset with, with the foresight to know that it's gotta be pretty quick. The ladder's got -- the ladder's gotta be pretty steep to get him up where he needs to be at a time so we can make this work and work effectively.
So I think he-- as he said, we, we-- I think we, we were, we were creative in some of your job titles along the way at times. Yeah. Yeah, he never had... I don't know how many business cards you have in your pocket, but there may-- two or three of them may have different titles on there. I don't know, but-
Max Harrell: They're-- it's written in
Jon Harrell: pencil.
Kile Graves: There you go.
Jon Harrell: Scratch it off. I have one. But, and I-- and I-- yeah, but all that was intentional. And I think a lot-- learning that, A, just having the knowledge of, of all those steps along the way is important, and then meeting the people is [00:27:00] important, and then garnering their respect is, is very important. Um, so I, I do think that i-i-in banking is a-- is not something you just jump into and understand.
It's fairly complex. There's a lot to it, highly regulated, a lot of rules, regulations, policies, procedures. It's just what, what we do. It's how we do it, and we're, we're ingrained in it. So there, there's, there is a s- fairly steep learning curve, and so he, he just kinda had to work his way up to understand that.
And, and then he did it. I mean, the humility. A lot of times, I think God just opened up channels, it seemed like. I do think this was a, a-- the ladder, really. I think you're at a point now I did not think you would be. Not that you can't do it, but just it seems like an opportunity would open up here, and it just made sense to put him there.
An opportunity would be here, it made sense to elevate him there. We might have squeezed you into a couple [00:28:00] corners a couple times, but, um- But I think all those opportunities opened up and it just-- and he, he just kind of worked his way up easily, you know, into each opportunity that was granted there and, and did it with humility.
I mean, I think that's the big keys. I mean, he didn't walk into this thing, "I'm, I'm a Harrell, I have a right to do this or that." And he never approached any of these new opportunities with that kind of mindset, and I think that has served, served him well and the bank well in hi-his leadership style.
Steve Graves: Yeah.
I mean, Colin and I, Colin and I have talked a lot about, you know, in our coaching practice, you know, there's this dual track that's always taking place. One track is, is the next generation has to learn all of the knowledge and all the stuff related to the industry. You know, if you're construction, you know, that might sound easy, whatever.
You know, go, [00:29:00] go get in the construction business or retail- Yeah ... or technology, whatever it is. Well, there's all this knowledge stuff that's attached to, you know, the next generation moving up the ladder. Um, and it's both the, the bank The regulations, the board level, all that stuff. But then there's also just the personal development leadership of that person, you know, making sure that they're growing at the same rate that those promotions are growing at.
And that can sometimes trip people up, um, at least we've seen that sometimes. Mm. So, you know, but, but the, but the, but the industries and the verticals that are more complicated and more complex, I mean, you just gotta learn somewhere. Yeah. I mean, you can't, you can't, you can't just show up and act like you understand something you don't, 'cause it'll, it'll, you'll be found out.
Jon Harrell: Yeah.
Steve Graves: Yeah. So that's
Jon Harrell: interesting. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, one thing that I, I heard the other day from a, a, a new key hire at the bank was that, uh, you know, someone we had approached, come to [00:30:00] work for us, we were very excited when he accepted, and he, he-- we were at a, kind of a little offsite meeting, and he said, uh, you know, "The biggest...
My biggest concern was really Max," and, you know, at the position he is at a young age, you know, what, what kind of right does he think he has to be in this spot? But how impressed he was with the humility he had seen from Max at such a, you know, a quick ti- a brief time that he had been there. And so I think that allowed, that level of humility allowed him to ascend to the level that he is as quickly as he has.
Kile Graves: Yeah. There's probably... We've also, in these conversations, we've noticed, uh, there is a little bit of an accelerated learning curve, or there can be an accelerated learning curve for the next generation, just because they've been around it for so long, and because you can watch your dad do his job. So you're able to watch them.
They're gonna model how to do this job, how to be, you know, CEO one day, president, whatever your [00:31:00] roles were. So you get to watch that, and you're able to pick up on stuff maybe a little bit quicker than your average Joe could. You know what I mean? And so that-
Max Harrell: Yeah ...
Kile Graves: was that showing up, you feel like, for you?
Max Harrell: Yeah. You, you, you see a lot of the intangibles, I think. Yes. Um, and, and that's a good chunk of, of, I think- Ascending in a, in a career ladder. I, I, I should say, I, I, I don't know. I've only had the opportunity to be in one, uh, specific career in one area, but I w- I would say there, there are a lot of intangibles there that you, that you pick up a lot quicker, I think, than, than maybe someone else who doesn't have that opportunity.
Kile Graves: Yeah.
Max Harrell: Again, like I, I get to see him specifically, I get to see him interact at lunch after church with someone who might be a customer, or I get to see him interact with another, another banking colleague. Like, you know- Mm-hmm ... so you get to, you get to pick up on a lot of this stuff that [00:32:00] not everyone gets the opportunity to see-
Kile Graves: For sure
Max Harrell: um, on a daily or frequent basis.
Kile Graves: Yeah. Um, last question on kind of the formation or origin story. Was there... Sounds like there wasn't a ton of pressure to come work here. There was no, like, big expectation, but there probably was some weight of just stepping in, like, you know, whenever that summer was after you graduated when you-
Steve Graves: Yeah
Kile Graves: got your formal written job offer. Uh, you know, what was the weight like of, of you deciding like, "Okay, this is... I'm gonna do this, you know, I'm not gonna move and chase some other thing. I'm gonna commit to the family business"? Did you feel any weight kind of there, or have you since you've, you've stepped on
Max Harrell: the board?
Yeah. Yeah, I have. Um, it, it, it's, it's molded into different types of weight- Yeah ... it feels like. Um, but by the way, I still have that formal job offer. Um, I found it the other day.
Kile Graves: You
Max Harrell: framed it. Um, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, but, uh, no, I, y- [00:33:00] yeah, there, there's a level of... There's a level when you come on of, "Hey, what are people gonna think about me?"
Um, and so for a while, I only introduced myself by my first name. I wouldn't say my last name to people in the organization unless they asked. Um, now- A good chunk of them knew who I was. Right. Right? But there's a new hire, like, I would not tell them my last name- Yeah ... unless they asked me. So, um, 'cause I wanted them to get to know me first and not n- n- you know, people make assumptions, or a lot of times, uh, you know, you, you, you get a first impression, but I didn't even have the opportunity a lot of times to make a fir- first impression.
That impression was impressed upon me-
Kile Graves: Mm-hmm ...
Max Harrell: um, pretty early. So, um, but it was also a really neat opportunity as well, and so you balance both of those. But the pressure has, has changed. Um, you know, early on it was, uh, you know, I don't need to be the dumbest person in the room. [00:34:00] I've got to kind of know my stuff pretty, pretty well, um, and be able to perform at a, at an extremely high level, more from a, um, you know, a, a performative standpoint.
Yeah. Like, I, I can't... I- I've got to cross all my T's, dot all my I's, and do this at an extremely high level. Um, you know, it's like the coach's kid, right?
Kile Graves: Ah. Yeah, yeah.
Max Harrell: Y- y- if you're the coach's kid, then typically you- You better act like it ... you better act like it, and you know, you also know the coach is... If there's a good coach and a good coach's kid, the coach is harder on the coach's kid than he is- Yeah
on anybody else.
Steve Graves: And you're g- and you're going home with the coach.
Max Harrell: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Steve Graves: Or the coach's wife.
Max Harrell: Exactly. Yeah. You better
Steve Graves: be.
Max Harrell: Yeah, no, exactly. You better be good. You know that. So, yeah, but it's, it's changed over time and, uh, you know, now it's more, like you said, more, think more legacy. You think more long-term.
You think a little less, more internally about who I am, and did I earn it? Which always- Yeah ... you know, kind of comes into play. Yeah. But it's like you start feeling the weight of, oh my gosh, like, [00:35:00] uh, there's a, there's a family asset relying on, on my ability to, uh, continue to drive this, this business and increase shareholder value.
So-
Kile Graves: Yeah ...
Max Harrell: it changed a lot over the-
Kile Graves: Yeah, I can imagine ...
Max Harrell: amount of time.
Kile Graves: Um, so tell us about what it's like to work together. Tac- tactically, John, you're CEO, you're president. What is that dynamic like just on a, on a objective work level basis, and then is there a behind the curtains, you know, scene where you guys are talking about stuff and future and dad-son business stuff, or is it all black and white?
How, what does that look like? 'Cause there's probably a lot of, you know-
Steve Graves: Yeah, and time out. What... And add, be sure to add in, there's a bank board ownership track-
Kile Graves: Right. Right, yeah ...
Steve Graves: that, that you guys would have in a private business that is also, then there's also just the operational daily work. So- Yeah
blend both of those things into what it looks like to work together.
Jon Harrell: Sure, sure. Well, the, the bank is, is run by what we call an executive [00:36:00] team, but there's seven, seven of us
Max Harrell: Yes
Jon Harrell: Hopefully we're good with numbers for bankers. Right. Seven of us, it- It's
Max Harrell: changed, it's changed a lot the last six months
Jon Harrell: to be fair Yeah, it has changed a lot- Yeah
really the structure of that. But, uh, and we really do... I mean, I, I am the ultimate decision-maker. I'm appointed by this board of directors to make sure that I've got the right team in place to do the right things, to make sure the bank functions properly on a day-to-day basis within the rules and regulations of the industry we exist in.
But we have to have really great people as part of this, I call it C-suite, whatever you wanna call it- Yeah ... um, that help us accomplish those things on a day-to-day basis. And we both coexist kinda within that C-suite group. We, we function well. We meet weekly. We have a nice rhythm. We have a nice communication style to make sure we get the right things accomplished for the bank.
And so we live in that ecosystem together. Obviously, there's [00:37:00] a, a separate component with, with the father-son. I mean, there's a, a direct, you know, as far as, you know, as far as line of who's next. I mean, there's no real doubt within our organization that Max is the heir apparent. And, um, so that, that's... We try to make sure we, we talk about things one-on-one.
And, and I, I, I'm not the best. I have the weakness, and I'll say it before he points it out- ... at probably calling him in a- and trying to discuss something, and so he'll Uh, we'll talk about that, and I'll, I'll promise to do better, and sometimes I will, sometimes I won't. But, um, certainly I do feel it upon me to make sure that he is involved in the key decisions of the bank.
That I... Some of them that, some things that are just my decision to make, I, I need to be, and I, and I am fairly intentional about including him on those decisions. And that's just part of, of a process. [00:38:00] Now, I, I, I really wasn't afforded that with-
Max Harrell: Right.
Jon Harrell: With your story ... the other gent. I, I really wasn't. Yeah.
I was just, as we said, I was kind of just, hey-
Max Harrell: Thrown into
Jon Harrell: it ... thrust into it, so. But the, I had this pretty cool opportunity to do that. And, uh, sometimes we both get too busy, and it's, it's hard to kind of settle into that time. He's got beautiful wife and two young little girls, who more importantly is my granddaughters.
But, uh, that, that he needs to spend his time and efforts on, and so we respect that. But, um, so there, there's, there is both those dynamics.
Kile Graves: Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Especially with your story, just getting thrown into it, and there was no one to-
Jon Harrell: Mm-hmm ...
Kile Graves: guide you along the, "Here's the on-ramp to the CEO seat."
It's just kind of like, boom, here you go.
Jon Harrell: Mm-hmm.
Kile Graves: Um, that's very different than your story, you know?
Max Harrell: Yeah, no, entirely
Kile Graves: different. Yeah. Big contrast there- Yeah ... which is interesting. Uh, yeah. What, what would, what would you say- Yeah ... from your perspective, what's it, what's the working together dynamic like?
Max Harrell: Yeah.
Kile Graves: You know?
Max Harrell: Yeah. You know, um, it's, it's obviously, again, like everything kind of [00:39:00] evolved. Um, you know, initially it was, um, he was big boss and, and I was, I was doing whatever work came down the, came down the ladder. And, um, you know, as we've gotten closer as far as positionally- Mm-hmm ... the conversations have probably more intensified on, you know, this is what we're talking about.
He did a really good job early on, I would say, about... You brought me into pretty critical decisions fairly early on, ones that I was not, you know, positionally, um, you know, required to be a part of.
Kile Graves: Yeah.
Max Harrell: So I always appreciated that. Um, I think that made a lot of sense. Um- Why is that
Kile Graves: important?
Max Harrell: It just made me feel like I was, this was a bigger thing than just what I was doing today.
There was, there was, um, there was a path or a future to this.
Kile Graves: Uh-huh.
Max Harrell: Um, and I, you know, I wasn't gonna have to spin the hamster wheel for a really long time. Um, just made me feel part of it, I guess- Yeah. Yeah ... uh, from an early, an ear- from an early age. Um-
Steve Graves: How many bosses, Max, have you had [00:40:00] besides your dad since the day you started at the bank?
Max Harrell: Yeah. Um, let's see. I think I've had four bosses-
Steve Graves: Okay ...
Max Harrell: since that time.
Steve Graves: Yeah. So you actually, so to your point that you were making, the, the further you ascended up and the closer you got to your dad's role- Right ... his position, you know, probably the, the continuity of, of conversation and the things you were talking about just, you know, became bigger and thicker and- Right
and more. Because early on you were just, you were reporting to a different boss, just trying to do your job.
Max Harrell: Right.
Steve Graves: Your functional... Yeah. Yeah. Got it. That makes sense.
Max Harrell: Yeah. No, it's, it's evolved quite a bit. Yeah. But I think, you know, we almost have to catch ourselves occasionally, right? We'll, we'll be at dinner or something, and something will come up and, you know, we'll have a conversation about that, and that's probably something we can, we could work on.
Kile Graves: Yeah.
Max Harrell: I don't, I don't know how, how thrilled either one of our wives are that we're talking about business. Um, but it's also, to be fair, sometimes where I feel like we [00:41:00] have the, the best conversations 'cause it's kinda, you know, just kinda, uh, less formal- Yeah ... which is nice. But, uh, no, he's, he- he's really, really done a good job, I think, of, of trying to figure out what and where to, to involve me in.
Um, and that, that's not an easy task by any stretch of the imagination. Um, 'cause like he said, not only was he thrust in that, but there was, there's been 13 years of not only learning this position, but doing the job, and doing it without thinking about this heir apparent- Mm-hmm ... or, like, it's a, it's a shift very clearly.
Uh-huh. So, um, yeah, it's, it's evolved quite a bit since then.
Kile Graves: Yeah. Something we've noticed, uh, us two, 'cause we also work together, it's different than a bank, but, um, and throughout these conversations with the other dads and sons is, uh, among many of the tensions or challenges that come with working in a family [00:42:00] business, one of the core tensions for a son is balancing ambition and humility.
So ambition, 'cause you wanna put your fingerprints on the business, and I'm feeling this. Like, I want us to do certain things and invest in companies instead of just coaching them or whatever. Uh, you gotta balance ambition with humility 'cause they're still driving the ship, and if you get over your ski tips, then there's gonna be a wake of, you know, corpses behind you on your way.
Mm-hmm. Uh, so you gotta navigate that tension. And then on the dad's side, um, we've noticed one of the big tensions is how do you steer wisely, 'cause you have been doing this much longer than us, but how do you, how do you manage that with also letting go of something? You know? 'Cause if, if you're... If you let go of everything too early, then it may go in the ditch, but if you don't let go of anything, then the son's gonna be like, "Well, I need, I need something."
You know what I mean? So have, have those tensions showed up? Have you noticed, like, "Man, this was an element where I was really ambitious and needed to pull back on the brake a little bit," or, "I was way too humble here. I should've, I should've pressed more"? Has that shown up at all since you've started [00:43:00] working together?
Max Harrell: Yeah. I, I think there's... We could probably point out specific moments where that showed up, but I've got this great coach that's been helping me- ... since I started for the last couple of months, and if I could- Right. It's Kyle, Kyle, uh- Yeah. ... Kyle Graves. Yeah. Uh, no, we... Obviously, this is something you and I have specifically talked about.
Yeah, yeah. Right? Um, and man, it's delicate.
Steve Graves: Yeah, it
Max Harrell: is. The, the, this... And it's, it's, it's so well put, you know, um, ambition and humility because there's this, there's this fire of being, you know, kind of young, and we'll use the word ambition again, young and ambitious, and you, you see things, and I think you...
And we, we talked about this with, um, kind of the, the, um, oh, who's the guy that we listened to, to talk over at the performance trust deal?
Jon Harrell: Arthur Brooks.
Max Harrell: Arthur Brooks. Yeah. About the different, about the different types of ways that we think, and obviously we're in very different seasons of our lives here.
Yeah.
Right.
Max Harrell: [00:44:00] So, um, um, like my foot never hits the gas, right? It's just always on the... Or, uh, ne- never hits the brake. It's alwa- Yeah, yeah ... you know, it's more on the gas than the brake. Right. And, um, and so yeah, I think we've, we've tried to navigate that a little bit, um, as we've gone through this, and, um, there's definitely been moments where, you know, I've come into his office and apologized and just said, "Hey, I, I, I was way too heavy-handed or strong in this."
And he's- It's, uh, it's, I think sometimes it's like he's fishing a little bit and he'll let me go as long as the line doesn't taut-
Kile Graves: Yeah ...
Max Harrell: get taut. When the line gets taut, he reels me back in pretty quick. Um, but I've gone in his office and apologized and just said, you know, "Hey, I, I, I am, I'm aware that, um, I, I pushed too ha- too hard here," uh, or something.
And, and so we've... I think we've had some pretty good conversations, and you've come to me and vice versa and said, "Hey, I, I think I should have said something different here," or [00:45:00] you've come to me and said I know you had this great idea, but we're not ready for this. You need to understand that you need to back off.
And, uh-
Kile Graves: Well, it's tough because if you're
Max Harrell: only- I don't like those conversations, but-
Kile Graves: Yeah ... they need
Max Harrell: to be- they need to happen.
Kile Graves: Right. They're delicate. Yeah. But it's tough because if you're only, let's say you're only humble, then you're gonna be a passive leader- Right ... and you're not gonna be able to lead the ship one day.
Like, you gotta have some... But if you're only ambitious, you know, then it can, it can make everything even more tense. So it's a, it's a delicate balance. And
Steve Graves: the business needs you. Like, it's really interesting because-
Kile Graves: Yeah ...
Steve Graves: look at the difference in what the bank is today than when your dad was leading it.
I mean, like, it is a whole... It's not just a bigger asset. I mean, it is, but it's, like, so much different. And so part of it is there is a tension, which is the perfect word, Kyle. The tension, because if you don't push, you know, you're not gonna bring your, your thinking, your perspective, which is needed. Well, if there- if that's the only tension going [00:46:00] on, there's no tension coming from the other side, that can't be healthy because you don't know what you don't know.
You know? And, and, like, you can't help that you haven't seen three acquisitions or whatever, you know, it might be. And so especially today's market with, you know, so much acquisitional growth, so much technology, innovation, and change with all things AI, so much just... There's just, there's so many different opportunities for growth trajectories in today's business landscape for almost every vertical than it was, you know, w- you know, 20 years ago, you knew how you were gonna grow.
You were gonna grow right down this path here, and this is what it was gonna look like. Today's world, it's a whole different animal, you know, and competition's different, so you gotta have those tensions in play.
Jon Harrell: Yeah. I'll give him, you know, some things that... I mean, he had brought to me specifically, I can think of two big picture ideas which we have embraced, and they have s- significantly paid off for the bank in, in, in a very accretive way in a pretty short period of [00:47:00] time.
So it's not-
Kile Graves: That's cool ...
Jon Harrell: he, he, he has... I mean, you've been adding to him a lot of other things on a day-to-day basis, but I mean, j- big new verticals that we've kind of jumped in.
Steve Graves: Which is a perfect example, because if John had only been hearing and listening to people his age or older, it might have been really hard for you to get settled on-
Kile Graves: Yeah
Steve Graves: saying, "Yeah, this is an opportunity that we could, we could go after." And I'm not trying to make it an age thing. Mm-hmm.
Kile Graves: Yeah.
Steve Graves: But going back to the tensions. Right. The tensions of you pushing and then John r- letting go and j- you know, kind of the tensions allowing z- z- uh, themselves to kind of work out for a great bank solution.
That's cool.
Jon Harrell: Yeah.
Kile Graves: Yeah. That's a cool example.
Jon Harrell: Yeah. And then certainly two other things that pop into my mind are technology, and he's gonna With a few less gray hairs, a little different view on technology that are applicable to banks and obviously the standard products and practices that we can offer people, but also some things that will have us more [00:48:00] long-term focus.
One of the big things he's been able to do is help us bring on young talent.
Steve Graves: Yeah.
Jon Harrell: I mean, I... There's at least one interview that says, "Why, what, what made you interested in working with Generations Bank?" And he said, "Max Harrell." So, I mean, those, those kind of things, I, you know, I, I... Those things would not have happened without Max Harrell.
Yeah. That's
Kile Graves: good. Yeah. Right. Those are good. Um, so we'll, we'll talk about the future a little bit. So the, the third kind of chapter in these conversations is what does the future look like? You know, a lot of people are interested in, in handoffs and how do you-- how does one transition, generation transition to the next, and how do you do that, and when does it happen, and what are all the things you have to do to get there?
Uh, we've seen kind of three broad seasons emerge in family businesses that are walking down this transition road. First one is older generation's leading and you're just learning. You're just getting your feet wet. This is you, bank teller, loan administrative assistant, or whatever it was. Yeah.
Max Harrell: Yeah.
Kile Graves: And that [00:49:00] can last a couple weeks or that could last years, but it's, "Hey, Dad's, Dad's running the ship and I'm just learning."
The second season is distinct, and it's a season of shared leadership. Uh, can vary depending on title and role and responsibility and stuff, but you're both leading in some capacity, um, for the organization. And then the third is the final season where Dad steps into some type of shepherd, advisor, purely chairman, something, um, in Florida more, whatever it is.
Uh, and you're, you're leading. Where are you guys kind of on that, that process and, and what does the future look like? Have you talked about it? What does all that kind of look like?
Jon Harrell: Yeah. No, we, we, we've talked quite a bit about it, and I've been very open and honest about it. Um, th- we have a plan and, uh, and, you know, I would say we're...
He is ahead of where I thought he would be. I think I mentioned that previously.
Steve Graves: Yeah.
Jon Harrell: Um-
Steve Graves: John, time out. Just don't lose your train. Please don't. Sure. But you mentioned it earlier. Part of it was just [00:50:00] because you felt like opportunities just opened up. Sure. And then part of it was just because of Max. Max was just...
He was able to step in and hit a double, hit a triple, hit a single. Like, was there, was there anything else? Was it the market? Was it Northwest Arkansas? Like, what... Was there any other variables that allowed Max to be ahead of where you might have thought he was gonna be?
Jon Harrell: Uh, just, just opportunity and growth- Okay
certainly are, are a big part of it, and a lot of his opportunities came from growth, where we're trying to hit, maybe hitting a new market or put some lenders in a new spot 'cause we're growing.
Steve Graves: Yeah.
Jon Harrell: So I, I certainly would have-
Steve Graves: Okay, so the- ...
Jon Harrell: attribute a lot of, some of the opportunities. Yeah. But I've also just-
Steve Graves: And, and the bank's been on a fast growth trajectory the last- Correct
four, five, six years.
Jon Harrell: Correct.
Steve Graves: For sure, right?
Jon Harrell: Yes.
Steve Graves: Yeah, so there's a really nice climb for you to be able to jump and make some big steps. Okay, keep going. Sorry.
Jon Harrell: You know, I think a, a lot of what we're planning for, I mean, it's hard to believe it, but I'm gonna be 60 this summer, and so I, I, you [00:51:00] know, I, I've been in this business my whole career and, and you see, I have seen a lot of father-sons working in a bank similar to ours, and you would go and, and these fathers just, they won't retire.
They won't quit, and maybe 'cause the son wasn't ready or couldn't do it. I don't know. But, uh, I, I don't wanna be that guy. I don't wanna be that guy at 80 who's Who won't trust their parent to come in and run the bank and do what he wants to do and, you know, implement his vision and direction into the bank.
'Cause A, this industry is changing fast too, and I, I won't be able to keep up with it at 80. Uh, it would be irresponsible to the shareholders and everything else. And I think my charge is to make sure he is ready to take over as CEO. I, I might like that chairman role for a while and- Yeah. But, uh, certainly, you know, step out of the day-to-day, be that sounding board if needed, [00:52:00] uh, for him in five, seven years.
I, I, I do think he'll be ready. There are things he needs to still... Well, he's got a lot of the pieces figured out, but then gotta be able to put it all together. I mean, you know, ul- ultimately, we have a lot of different stakeholders at banks. We have employees, we have customers, we have regulators, we have shareholders, and you gotta be able to kinda work within that whole ecosystem, and that, that just takes, takes some time.
Steve Graves: Yeah.
Jon Harrell: And who knows, I might even add some value there o- over the years that are, uh, certainly during my full employment, even maybe even post that. So-
Steve Graves: Get, get- Yeah. Get a signed agreement.
Jon Harrell: Yeah.
Steve Graves: Get him, get him to give you a f- Yeah ... a formal signed agreement. Make sure
Jon Harrell: he- That's right. I, I'll have to start negotiating that now, possibly.
I don't know. But I do think one of the things that I, I am proud of, I think we've... Like I said, we, we, you know, the, the, you have to worry about your ownership too, or not worry, be concerned, pay attention to- Yeah ... be more appropriate. 'Cause at some point, people [00:53:00] may need a liquidity event that have been loyal shareholders.
Uh, there's generations pass on and generations inherit closely held stock for a company kinda like ours, and some of those folks may not be as loyal to the bank once they figure out what that investment is worth. But I think we've gotten to a size operating a, a location whereas we can deal with those things now Uh, with other types of ownership, stock options or equity pieces that will allow us to also continue to think long term and plan this out for him and those that wanna stay involved.
Steve Graves: So, so John, it, I don't know what you can and can't share publicly, but like where, where will the bank be five, five or seven years from now? Like what... Give us some sense of scope and, like you're already in two states now, so there's a good reason to think you might be in multiple states. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And like what can you tell us about where the bank might
Jon Harrell: be? You know, the, the, the, the banking industry as a whole is really [00:54:00] consolidated.
Steve Graves: Okay.
Jon Harrell: I mean, just, there are just fewer and fewer banks within, you know, the United States, state of Arkansas, and it's just... A, a lot of times banks that have a, a John Harrell do not have a Max Harrell, and so there's no heir apparent.
Yeah. So hey, let's, you know, the shareholders say, "All right, you know, it's been a great run. Let's figure out how to cash out of this deal and let somebody else take over these operations to go on." So I mean, I think that that's-
Steve Graves: So you could be acquiring some of those
Jon Harrell: people. So I think acquisitions will be an opportunity as, as banks.
That's, that's one thing, and just, you know, this is a hard industry to, to operate in too, just because of all the rules, regulations, and processes and procedures and-
Steve Graves: Gotcha.
Kile Graves: Yeah ...
Jon Harrell: and it, it, it's work. I mean, you gotta check a lot of boxes, and all those stakeholders that I referred to, that they, they, they demand your attention at certain times.
Kile Graves: Another one of those stats we talked about earlier is, uh, [00:55:00] so there's 32 million small businesses in the US. 40% of them are owned by a baby boomer who's gonna reach retirement age soon. Uh, a third of them have no plan what to do with their business. Mm-hmm. So to your point, there's gonna be a lot that are, that are coming up for a, a critical decision of do we dissolve?
Do we sell? Mm-hmm. Do we find someone else to take it? Like what are we doing with all these? Sure. Sure. You know, and I'm sure there's a lot of banks that are in that, in that category.
Jon Harrell: Yes.
Kile Graves: Uh, what do you think, Max? What... When you think about the future- Yeah ... you hear your dad, your dad talk about it, and then what, what's your color commentary you would put on top of that or anything else?
Max Harrell: No, obviously, uh, you know, setting vision is extremely important. Um, and that's something that, you know, we, we are constantly trying to do, um, and trying to follow, you know, his vision and his leadership as we go through this. And so, um, you know, I, I try to implement where I can and, and where it's necessary.
Um, um, but yeah, I think there is no [00:56:00] There's no, um, we're wanting to grow. We have every, every intention to continue to grow, um, and provide opportunity given that there are opportunities out there, including, you know, acquisition, including trying to be the best we can be with what we have, organic growth.
Um, trying to set this thing up so if I could play a little bit of visionary for, for a little bit, it would be trying to, trying to take in the short term, just set this thing up, kind of we've grown a lot, so catch up a little bit. Um, sometimes when you grow, you've, you've got some things that, um, you know, you didn't think about, and so maybe catch up a little bit, figure out where we're at, set a really solid foundation to, to be able to stack on top of, like put building blocks on top of it, whether you want to do it truly organically and you just want to grow in a very dynamic market like Northwest Arkansas, and then find other dynamic markets that are, you know, within, um, [00:57:00] you know, striking distance of where we're at.
Or, um, like you said, somebody calls you and says, "Hey, we have a really attractive asset, but we have nobody to take care of it. Would you guys be interested?" Yes, but we need to be in a position foundationally to be able, be able to stack that block instead of, you know, there not being a, a real good mesh there.
That's right. Which you don't want to ca- create two problems- Yeah ... at, at that time. You, you want to have, you know, very solid and then deal with one problem at a time. So I think that's, that's really what we're trying to do over the next, um, you know, call it seven years or so. Um, and, and I, I look forward to conversations that we get to have and maybe potential opportunities that, uh, you know, Lord willing, will come and be part of [00:58:00] this.