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What happens when life puts obstacles in your way that you just have to tackle? Turns out three Rugby League icons might be able to help.
Making it in elite sport, staring down the competition, overcoming challenges in the game and in life after rugby, Adrian Morley, Shaun Lunt, and Barrie McDermott know what it takes to keep moving forward. From the highs of big wins to the tough calls of retirement, Changing Rooms is about what happens when the final whistle blows — and how lessons from Rugby League translate into resilience, growth, and finding a new path.
The conversations are raw and no-filter — stories of comebacks, transitions, and big turning points that show what it really takes to adapt when everything changes. They’re perfect for young people facing life transitions from education to work, fans of sport seeking insight beyond the game, or anyone navigating career or personal change.
Join us as we swap stories from the pitch and beyond, and share the lessons, laughs, and honest truths that can help you figure out your own next move. Whether you’re looking for resilience strategies or just some inspiration from people who’ve been there, you’ll get insights that reach further than the game — from the Changing Rooms Squad.
About the Hosts
Adrian Morley
Adrian was never just tough — he was one of the most feared forwards in Rugby League, the first British player to win both NRL (National Rugby League) and Super League titles, and a leader who thrived in the biggest moments. After years at the very top, he knows what it means to push through pressure, face down setbacks, and then figure out who you are when the roar of the crowd fades.
Shaun Lunt
Shaun’s career had it all — Grand Final wins, England caps, and the highs and lows of playing for some of the biggest clubs in the game. But he’s also been brutally honest about injuries, mental health, and the personal battles that shaped him. Now, he brings that same openness to coaching and mentoring, offering lessons on resilience and reinvention that hit home well beyond sport.
Barrie McDermott
Barrie built his reputation as one of Rugby League’s fiercest enforcers, a no-nonsense presence for Leeds Rhinos and Great Britain. Since hanging up his boots, he’s carved out a second career in broadcasting, combining sharp analysis with the same humour and straight talk he was known for on the pitch. Barrie’s story is about toughness, loyalty, and how to evolve when one chapter ends and another begins.
Barrie McDermott:
Welcome to Changing Rooms, brought to you by our good friends at Elect, where a few of us ex-pros bring you stories from the pitch and beyond. I'm Barrie McDermott. I will be joined every week by Adrian Morley and Shaun Lunt, legends, mates, and proof that life after rugby is full of lessons, laughs, and the odd knock-on along the way. Together we talk about challenges, change, and what keeps us moving forward on the field, at work, and in life. So, let's get stuck in.
Hello, and welcome back to Changing Rooms brought to you by our good friends at Elect. Adrian, Shaun?
Shaun Lunt:
Morning.
Barrie McDermott:
Our third episode. You feeling up to it?
Adrian Morley:
Feeling up to it, mate. Yes, yes, looking forward to it.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah? Still got plenty in the tank, Shaun?
Shaun Lunt:
Oh, plenty, sir.
Barrie McDermott:
Good on you. Well, listen, we're halfway through, and today we're going to cover off teamwork and being stronger together. So, I thought it'd be a good opportunity to ask you about your best teammate because traveling in and out, being in a working environment, being in a changing environment, you really get used... You forge those bonds.
It might take some people 20, 30 years, we condense that into maybe two or three seasons, and you get a real close bond. So Moz, I'm going to start with you. Who's your favorite roommate?
Adrian Morley:
Probably not surprised, but Terry Newton, he was my best mate in the sport. So, he was from Wigan and I from Salford. We travel over every day together. And even when we weren't traveling, we got a place together, so we was roommates as well. So, just a very, very funny man, a character.
Barrie McDermott:
Have you got any memories?
Adrian Morley:
Nothing I can share...
Barrie McDermott:
Anything you want to share on this platform?
Adrian Morley:
Well, he was fantastic. For a night out, he was great. Loved a drink, loved a good time. But you always knew, talking about teammates and having each other's back, you knew for a fact that he would look after you given any opportunity. But just his quick wit. He'll admit himself, he wasn't the smartest academically, but his tongue was so sharp when it comes to the banter and that's what you need in rugby league.
And it wasn't until he left actually, while we're on the subject. I didn't realize he'd come out with the same, but he was at Belter. He said, "We're not just teammates. We're best mates at Leeds." And it was very true. We was very close, '98-'99, it was a...
And you need to be in rugby league. It's a sport where you've got to have each other's backs, you've got to look after each other. And I know clubs do a lot of team bonding preseason, and it does help you out throughout the season.
Barrie McDermott:
And my memory serves me well. Most of the nights out with Tez Newton, most of them ended abruptly, didn't they? With somebody getting launched out of wherever we were. But yeah, good lad, Tess Newton.
And somebody, I know he would rely on you and he would probably have loyalty above anything else, wouldn't he?
Adrian Morley:
He would.
Barrie McDermott:
So, Lunty, favorite teammate, favorite traveling partner, favorite roommate?
Shaun Lunt:
Favorite roommate would be Scott Moore. So, I got to know Scott Moore when I was at the scholarship under 15s at St. Helen's. He was 14, so he's a year younger than me. And we got on really well, and Paul Clough was in that team as well. So, we bonded.
And then obviously Scott kicked on with the first team at Saints, and it wasn't until 2009 that we got put back together at Huddersfield. And we were actually, it was a 2012 Challenge Cup Final when we played you guys. We were staying down at this big fancy room and spa hotel.
And I can always remember we had Keith Mason's phone and we got into his phone, and we went on his Facebook and Scott goes, "Here, take a picture of my bum hole, and we'll put it as his profile picture." So, we did it and we're there. Keith's in the room next to us. He's talking to these girls on Facebook, and then all you hear was Keith going nuts. "Who's done this?" And me and Scott, you're just in the room with laughing our heads off.
And I can always remember the morning of the final actually. Dizzy Rascal song came on. Some people think I'm bonkers and there's me and Scott dancing now, just two young kids, 21 and 20, dancing around in the hotel room with just our dressing gowns on. And yeah, that's a memory that I'll learn that'll last a lifetime.
Adrian Morley:
I remember when he made the England squad, it was 2009, and he was rooming with Richard Miler. I think he was only 17, 18 at the time, but he absolutely terrorized him, and he went to the French markets. We're playing over in Paris and he asked could he buy this fish's head.
And I said, "Why do you want that? You can't eat that." He said, "No, no, I don't wait to eat." So we bought it, but put it in Richie Miler's bed and just took the sheet over it. So then obviously when he come to get in bed, there was a fish's head. But I thought he was a bit of a character, that lad, and he was a good addition to the squad.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. I tell you what, I met a lot of people who've got stories about Scotty that they could tell you.
Barrie McDermott:
I wanted to just touch on something. We often talk in sport about routines, don't we? And how sometimes those routines and that set pattern that you've got before games, being away, is an integral part of your preparation. Did you ever come across any weird ones?
Adrian Morley:
Not really. I mean, rugby lads are very similar, their preparation. And to be fair, rugby lads'll just get told what to do by the coaches, by the SNC, "You're doing this." "Okay." There's very little arguments there, but no, nothing that springs to mind really.
Barrie McDermott:
Vomiting, not to-
Adrian Morley:
Oh, okay. [inaudible 00:05:27]
Barrie McDermott:
... degrade things. There's always a couple of spewers in the dressing rooms, weren't there?
Adrian Morley:
Yes. So, Lee Briers was the worst for that. And he did just put you off. And then you'd have a chat with him like, "Why'd you do that?" I says, "I've always done it, and I probably always will. It's just nerves before the game." But in the end he had to go, there's a separate changing room. He had to go in there, just start putting people off.
Barrie McDermott:
It's funny you say that because I play, again, Great Britain, I'm talking about Great Britain, but I played my first game, and it had mega stars of the game of the time, Martin Offiah, Gary Connolly, Alan Hunte, and Jonathan Davis in the back line. And Jonathan Davis, who was an iconic rugby player, nevermind Rugby Union, Rugby League.
My Great Britain debut, he was in the toilet spewing his ring. So, I was not nervous. I never got nervous before games, but anxious and just thinking, "Do you want to get out there and get it done now?" And I've got the most experienced player in the room spewing up. And so Breezy might have inherited it off [inaudible 00:06:26]
Adrian Morley:
Mahar, because he would have played with him, wouldn't he, at Warrington? But another one, it went down to nerves, but Craig, when he finished the game, mate, he used to go straight to the toilet.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah, he didn't didn't he?
Adrian Morley:
And light a fag up in there.
Barrie McDermott:
I remember.
Adrian Morley:
And 'have a dart', as they say.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. What about you, Lunty?
Shaun Lunt:
We had some good comical ones at Hull KR. So, obviously the year that we were relegated, we really gelled together that year because obviously we were pushing for promotion. And two spring to mind are Thomas Minns that was at Leeds as a youngster
Barrie McDermott:
Of course, [inaudible 00:06:55].
Shaun Lunt:
[inaudible 00:06:56] and Ryan Shaw, a Barrow lad, fellow Cumbrian. So Shawy, you just used to go in and he used to be sat there naked. No matter who came in, sometimes as you know, early on, the corporate sponsors, they'll be getting shown around one, [inaudible 00:07:09] then he'll just be sat there. Just everything hung out, not a care in the world. He was brilliant, I mean, he was-
Barrie McDermott:
Was his confidence justified without lowering the tone?
Adrian Morley:
[inaudible 00:07:18].
Barrie McDermott:
[inaudible 00:07:19] explains the long-term showing.
Adrian Morley:
[inaudible 00:07:21]
Shaun Lunt:
[inaudible 00:07:19] Yeah. If you're going to be confident, you have to back it up though. And he certainly backed it up.
And then there was Minsey, he was just, well, as you all know, dancing around, singing MC'ing. But again, going back to the changing room environment, I think everyone respects each other, so as long as that...
You might have someone like Scott Grix, who was so methodical in everything he did. If I could say if anyone OCD, it was Grixy. So what you do, you just let Grixy be Grixy. You don't go into his space and you don't go in anyone else's space. And you soon learn who you can have a bit of a joke and banter with.
But again, you've got to be careful in it because if you're too happy before the game, you're messing around, you go and get pumped, that gets used against you. And it don't get used against you if you got a win.
Barrie McDermott:
And you're upsetting people as well, aren't you?
Shaun Lunt:
Yes, exactly. Yeah, you're upsetting that harmony. So, it's very important to understand other people's rituals and what they go through and how they prepare. And just like you say, give them their space if they need space, and joke around with the ones that you can joke around with.
Barrie McDermott:
My pre-match buddy was little Rob, Rob Burrow because-
Shaun Lunt:
Brilliant.
Barrie McDermott:
... I needed to bring myself down because if I got into my own head, I'd end up... No-
Adrian Morley:
[inaudible 00:08:30].
Barrie McDermott:
...head butting walls.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
... too worked up about it. So, I needed to... As you get later on in your career, you learn how to flick the switch, don't you?
Shaun Lunt:
Yes, yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
... rather than spending the whole day building yourself up, getting up to the levels that you need to be, you could flick the switch. So, I used to just, I'd say relax, but it was probably more like messing about.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
So, I used to take me and Little Rob, we'd go and get a ball and we'd be just passing and just... It was like constantly gibber-jabber with Rob weren't it.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, yeah, absolute [inaudible 00:08:57] of that.
Barrie McDermott:
So, I used to listen to him laugh and give him a bit back, but I used to pull into one side. Because when you play for a team that's 40 miles away, the first part of your day is getting to where you're supposed to be. So, traffic used to be a bit of an anxious part of my day.
So, I'd get here at Headingley. I'd get here maybe sometimes at four or five o'clock, then I'd get a massage, then I'd have a bath, then I'd get strapped up. And sometimes by the time people and lads are turning up to get ready, I've got my shorts on.
Shaun Lunt:
[inaudible 00:09:28].
Barrie McDermott:
I've got me strapping on and I'm ready, mate. I'm like, I'm going, right.
Shaun Lunt:
You've already played the game and the changing rooms, and you also feel like flat, don't you?
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
Like you say, that nervous energy, you've burn actual energy off.
Adrian Morley:
That was one of my roles as captain when I was at Warrington, just to say right, it was always half an hour before kickoff. Sorry, before warm up, before that, you could do what you want, mess about. And I was guilty of having the crack, making jokes and that, because I was the same as you, Baz. I like to keep myself relaxed and jovial, really.
But as soon as a half an hour before kickoff, "Right, boys, switch on now." And it was, everyone knew the rules, music was off and then it was switch on time then. But yeah, but you're right, they do know when to flip the switch when we went to be serious or whatever.
Shaun Lunt:
We used to have some players that literally, 40 minutes before a kickoff, they'd still be fully clothed, and I'd be sat there all strapped up, ankles done, ready to go. And again, it's just one of those things. And then all they did was 10 minutes left, lads in 10 minutes, AirPods gone, iPhones down, music off, we're in game mode and that was it. Everything just... It's like a switch went off and everyone was just on it then.
Barrie McDermott:
Right. So, let's get into today's topic. I want to talk about teamwork and what really makes a team tick. The loyalty, the clashes and the moments that turn teammates into family. You talked about it with Terry Newton. What does the word team and what does the concept of team really mean to you, Moz?
Adrian Morley:
I think Rugby League, you need to be as close as possible in this sport compared to any other sport in the world, only because if you don't look after your teammate, you can get hurt, seriously hurt, and then it's that. I'm not being dramatic here. If you say, "Come with me," and he's not with you, bang, you could end up with a, I don't know, broken nose, broken cheekbone, something like that.
But that's how important it is to Rugby League to be trustworthy and to trust your teammate. You've got to be like brothers, as I say, otherwise you could potentially get hurt. So, I think it's great that preseason, everyone goes on about how hard preseason is.
The more you train at an intense level, the closer you become. If you can hopefully get a tritrip away it's great living in each other's company. And again, the more experiences you can have together, the closer you forge that friendship. Not every club can afford a trip away, but we were quite fortunate. We used to get took away quite regular, and it's essential for the season ahead that you spend that time together and forging them friendships.
Barrie McDermott:
How deep do those bonds go?
Shaun Lunt:
Very deep, very deep. So for me, teamwork is absolutely everything to me. It goes back to my family when we sat down as a family at the dinner table talking. It's all about teamwork. People just think of like stars. If you want to be a star, if you want to be singled out, go play tennis or go play golf.
Rugby League, especially in your teamwork, in a team sport, it's selfless acts that do it. Like Moz was saying there, the most important person on that pitch is the person next to you. Because if you miss a tackle, they're going to cover your ass. If you make a break, they're going to be there supporting you. If you get clocked off the ball, that person's going to... I bet you did that plenty of times in your career. Someone small got hit.
Barrie McDermott:
What, the...
Shaun Lunt:
They're clocking off the ball. And the [inaudible 00:12:57]
Barrie McDermott:
[inaudible 00:12:57]
Shaun Lunt:
But again, it's one of those things.
Barrie McDermott:
But it's about roles in teams, isn't it?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, it's roles in teams.
Barrie McDermott:
It's about roles in teams.
Shaun Lunt:
Again, me being a nine and then me two front rows. If someone hit me off the ball or took me out late, I'd expect me big front rows to go do something about it. And they did.
And I've got a story about, and I won't say the club or anything like that, but this is how deep team is for me. It is a family because we had a young player who tried to take his own life, and he came into training the next day. And he got myself, another senior teammate and told us and nobody else knows to this day.
And that for me epitomized the teammate that he did something that he would... Thankfully he didn't go ahead with it, but he did something that night. And he was open enough to come and talk to us about it the next day.
And thankfully, like I said, all good now. But for me, your team is... It's like an unspokable bond. Once you step on that pitch, it's very hard to describe for me, Moz. I don't know what it's like for you.
Barrie McDermott:
There's an expectation and it's really difficult to put into words because you're at two extremes of the scale, aren't you?
Shaun Lunt:
Yes.
Barrie McDermott:
It's a really unforgiving place and you can't afford to put your head too far above the parapet, but there's a trust and a bond and a brotherhood that means if you are really struggling with something in, if you go to the right person, because we are so in it together, we'll always try and help and sort things out and be there for one another.
And that's a really sad story that we've got examples of that. And Terry Newton is one that we have firsthand experience of. He perhaps, out of the rugby environment, because of actions and decisions he'd made leading up to his suicide, didn't feel like he could come and talk to us. And that's something I know it'll live with you and it's something I look back on.
Because if he'd have been in the environment, if he'd have been in the family and the brotherhood, he might have actually said, "Look, I'm struggling or I'm upset or I don't know where to go. I'm feeling low or whatever."
Shaun Lunt:
And I think that's probably what separates the top teams from the bottom teams, the successful teams and the not so successful teams because if you really go down to it's the nitty-gritty stuff. It's not all the big player, the fancy stuff. It's all about working hard for each other, being there for each other. And again, when you look at the top teams, they'll come down to the brotherhood and how strong that bond is.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. You've been in a few teams, Moz, so it's probably a difficult question to ask, but I want you to try and remember the first time. So you've come from Eccles, Salford Roosters, they're called now. You come from Eccles, you're an amateur, you're in the environment, and you're amongst all your heroes. But at what point did you think to yourself, "These are my family. These are more than teammates."
Adrian Morley:
It was only in my third game, to be fair. So as a 17-year-old, I played first team, really skinny, and it was my third game. We played away at Wakefield, and in them days, the second row used to stand on the back line where the props go now anyway, and I'm chucking the ball up and I just, because of my size, kept getting put on my backside.
And anyway, it was Richie Ayers, who was an ex player, and all I did was, "Moz, Moz, I'll switch with you now." Just a little moment like that, but I thought, he's looking after me there. And it meant the world. So, I knew there and then that your teammates have got your back, and they'll do out for you to help you out. But yeah, it was quite a big moment really.
Barrie McDermott:
There's an understanding, isn't there? And within any team environment, you've got 17, or 15 in the old days, you've got 17, and then you've got a squad of about 25. Everybody's important in different ways. And if you don't do your work, the halfbacks can't do their work and set up the tries and the wingers and the centers and the fullbacks and the people who score the points, convert the tries, can't do their stuff. So, everybody's reliant on one another.
What about off the pitch? Is there a point where you thought that this bloke here, who is my teammate, I've got so much in common with him, he's very quickly turning into my best friend and my most trusted ally?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, he's Neil Harmon, who I played with Neily for a couple of years, but then he actually moved on to Bradford Bulls. Might have been Huddersfield then Bradford. But he had a place up just off the Ring Road there. And he said, "Instead of traveling every day, why don't you stay here a couple of days a week," but the bond we had-
Barrie McDermott:
Did he charge you?
Adrian Morley:
He did charge me.
Barrie McDermott:
Well it was a business decision, let me tell you.
Adrian Morley:
It still worked out a cheaper, but that's life, and it gives me an understanding of nothing's free. But he was a great teammate here first and foremost. He was a great lad. He's from St. Helen's, but he was great even when he moved on. I'm still...
Barrie McDermott:
Living in China now, isn't he?
Adrian Morley:
Living in China. Yeah, yeah. Still close-
Barrie McDermott:
School teacher.
Adrian Morley:
... close friends with Neil, but he was great. And to have a senior player, person like that in your life, I won't say father figure, that's a bit dramatic, but he was certainly like a...
Barrie McDermott:
Role model.
Adrian Morley:
... mentor, role model. Yeah, yeah, he was fantastic. And you could argue some of the things he taught me weren't as professional as they could have been.
Barrie McDermott:
[inaudible 00:18:15] about life, Moz.
Adrian Morley:
But it was great as a young lad, dead exciting, living in Leeds, and playing Rugby League for a profession was... He was great to have on your side.
Barrie McDermott:
And Lunty, what about you? When did you first be in a team environment and have somebody at the side of you that turn from a teammate to a trusted ally and a mentor?
Shaun Lunt:
For me, it was James Donaldson, and it wasn't until I came down with sepsis. So Dono is a fellow Cumbrian, so obviously I'm a little bit biased that way, but I never knew Dono growing up as a kid. He was actually from [inaudible 00:18:49], so obviously up in Cumbria, we call them Jammies and whatnot.
And when I signed at Hull KR, we traveled together, so he lived up at Birstall. So, I was still in Mayfield. And again, when you're spending loads of time with each other, you know yourself when you travel with Kev, you travel with Tess, you get to know each other, you get to know each other inside out. And it wasn't until I got really ill with sepsis.
And so I got put into an assessment ward, and they thought I had bacterial meningitis, and for three days, nobody could come see me. I had to be isolated. And well, during them three days, it was my son's birthday as well. So, I felt really, really low.
And there was only three people that came and seen me from the rugby team, and Dono was one of them and he was the first one. And little things like that, when you're down and you're out and you're feeling the worst you've ever felt, you're rock bottom, Dono was there for me.
And sadly, Dono has just recently done his fourth ACL, so I always check in and whatnot. So Dono for me, he doesn't know really what that meant to me.
Barrie McDermott:
And it's all part of the process, isn't it? We talk about the changing room environment, but it's the work environment. The things that you get taught, and you inherit a certain set of values and morals, you try to interpret them, put your own spin on them and pass them back on to the next lot of people that you have an influence on. So, Dono sounds like a really good influence on you-
Shaun Lunt:
Yes.
Barrie McDermott:
... because you, I think you said it, Moz, about, it's not just about the pitch, it's not just about the training pitch. It's sometimes travel, but when you get deep into the bonds and the commonalities that you've got with somebody, you realize that, "Actually, I weren't keen on you before, but the more time I spend with you, the more I realize that we're quite aligned."
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. The biggest person in Rugby League that had the biggest influence on me as a player was Kev Sinfield, obviously. 2012, I wasn't getting in the team at Huddersfield. I think I was 24. I just had a newborn. I had my oldest son, Noah, and I wasn't getting picked.
And obviously, all we want to do is play, don't we? And there was guys in front of me. I was getting 10 minutes here on the bench and 10 minutes in. And then the loan spell came about coming here, potentially coming here. And I was very fortunate, again, to travel with Kev.
So, I met Kev up at [inaudible 00:21:02], and I spent a lot of time with Kevin. Like I say, when you say teamwork, there was always me and my brother together. When my mom and dad split up, it was always me and my brother. We used to go everywhere together.
And then my brother moved to Australia, and then my rock had gone, and I was at Huddersfield not playing. I sort of lost my way a little bit, and I came to Leeds and then gelled with Kev. And he was just reminding me of my older brother. He was that person that I could go to. I felt safe in his presence.
And a lot of people like to see Kevin, they just see this super, ultra professional person, but he's got a wicked sense of humor. He's got that dark side to him that I'm very prevalent and lucky to see. And yeah, Kev, he's had a massive, massive impact on me because the way he carries himself-
Barrie McDermott:
Do you remember, I know it's challenging here, can you remember a specific conversation or a specific problem that he helped you solve?
Shaun Lunt:
I can just remember the first week I came, he just said, "Lunty, just listen to me. I'll guide you around. Don't panic." And obviously, I'd come into this-
Barrie McDermott:
Don't panic's good advice.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, don't panic. Yeah, because obviously I'd come from Huddersfield, coming to the star sudden side at least. And it was just like having a coach on the pitch. He just literally directed everyone and I ended up getting the supporters' Man of the Match as well.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah, brilliant.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, just like say, just having his presence around, a little story we were actually in the lounge, and I was with my eldest son at the time watching a game. And Kev walked in with his wife and his kids and Noah's just, his eyes lit up. He was like, "There's Kev, there's Kev." I said, "Oh yeah."
So obviously, everyone goes over, shakes Kev's hand, and then Kev sees me and we smile and he comes right over, gives me a big cuddle. And then we have a little chat and I've got a picture with Noah. And Noah goes to me, he goes, "Oh, you do know him, don't you? " I was like, "Yeah, of course I do. I told you I do." But they didn't believe me until that. And that's, again-
Barrie McDermott:
I don't understand why people are suspicious of you. Do you tell many lies? Is that what's going on?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, but me nose would grow.
Barrie McDermott:
Moz, you've had a brilliant career and you've had many, many highs, but I know that there's been times when you've been out of favor, you've been injured and inevitably when you're that talisman for your team, and you're making big shots and big tackles and turning games on those moments inevitably, you get those wrong because you're willing to put yourself out there. Who did you turn to when things happened? When you had occasions like that, who did you get on the phone to?
Adrian Morley:
Well, when I was playing Australia, it was family. I'd bring them and sound them out. But to be fair, there wasn't that... I mean, there was quite a few suspensions, but it didn't affect me profoundly.
Barrie McDermott:
So, you had self-talk, you had confidence in your own direction.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, I mean, and I was very thankful that Ricky Stewart, who was my coach for five years at the Roosters, he made it clear and public that he's supporting me, he's got me back. And he always used to say, because I was getting to the point where I was getting banned every couple of months, and it weren't just a little ban. Because of the loading system and that kind of thing and similar offense, I was getting like three-game bans for doing something you did every game, Baz.
But anyhow, I went up to him and said, "Look, I'll change the way I play the game because it's no good for the club no good for me." And his face, "No, I don't want you to want you to carry on the way you're playing. Obviously, don't go out your way to do it and try and be a bit more smarter, but your aggression is your strength. The players love playing me. I love coaching you. Crack on." And that meant the world out because I knew he knew had his backing.
Barrie McDermott:
What about some of those personal struggles when you were off the pitch, and you're uncertain of what was going on around you? Who did you go to then? Was that still family?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, it's still family. I mean, I was-
Barrie McDermott:
You've got two older brothers, haven't you?
Adrian Morley:
Two older brothers.
Barrie McDermott:
One daft one, one sensible.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, that's right.
Shaun Lunt:
So, what does that make you?
Adrian Morley:
Well, I'm a bit baby.
Shaun Lunt:
[inaudible 00:24:56]
Adrian Morley:
A bit between, a bit between.
Barrie McDermott:
The spoiled brat.
Adrian Morley:
They were always a big influence on my career, particularly the daft one who played professional Rugby League, because he was a big inspiration. But I always spoke to them, and as I say, to be fair, I'd never got myself in such a tears was where I was wound up and affected me mentally or anything like that. So, I was quite fortunate. But when the big bans come along or the big injury or something like that, I always knew I had family to count on, so it weren't too bad.
Barrie McDermott:
It's quite important, isn't it, whether it's business or whether it's sport that you've got things... They talk about that work-life balance model, where you've got family, you've got you as a professional sportsman or how you make your living and then you as an individual that you just get things in balance.
Then if things aren't going right, the other two aspects of your life, just compensate, take over, and you can lean into that and not get too bogged down on what's going wrong. So, it's good that you have that self-confidence, that awareness, or lack of awareness, Moz, because I know you really well, that you didn't over process too many things-
Adrian Morley:
No.
Barrie McDermott:
... while you were in those difficult spots.
We've covered off the brotherhood. We've covered off how those bonds are strong and we're willing to work hard for one another and step up. But inevitably in an elite environment, there are clashes. There are times where you've got to stand up and say, Moz, "that's unacceptable." Can you think back to a time in a high pressure environment where you've had to do that yourself?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. So, this was really difficult for me because as a child, I've always run from conflict. So, this coming into this environment as a young kid, very tough for me. So, it all stems back from when I was a youngster. So when my mom and dad split up, my mom turned gay.
And so being from a small town in Cumbria, where I'm going back 29 years now, so not a lot of gay people around, still frowned upon at the time, and being in that small environment. And then every time lads would be talking about, they'd be talking about lesbians or they'd be talking about gay, I'd just fight or flight and then I'd just run from any conflict, any sign of conflict. So, that's something that I've had to work on, not until I've got older, and I've realized, and again, it's always, like I say, I've always sort of shied away from that confrontation, but now I embrace it now, everything that I've learned on the pitch.
So again, I go back to the 2013 season when someone went out and they were drinking, and I went to coach with a couple of us and said, "Listen, this can't be done this. If we want to..." I'd just come back from Leeds after winning the grand final win. I was a champion. I wanted to come back and I wanted to kick on and reach highs in my career and that happened.
And I was just like, "I'm not letting that happen. I've just come back from a club where this is probably one of the greatest team there is and I'm not letting that happen." And frankly, it all went well. But again, you've got to be really uncomfortable in the... You've got to be comfortable in them uncomfortable situations to really grow.
Barrie McDermott:
And Moz, what about you as a leader, and I'm talking about probably the back end of your career at Warrington and at Salford, how did you manage conflicts? How did you interject?
Adrian Morley:
To be fair, we didn't have a huge amount of issues. When lads were getting out of order, discipline, that kind of thing, I approached them and to be fair, they were more often than not the adult that I know.
Barrie McDermott:
What was your style? Was it, I'll sit down, I'll take him for a coffee or...
Adrian Morley:
Yep, yep, just nice and easy at first. And then I'd let them explain why they're going about the business the way they are. But there wasn't a huge issues, but the issues we did have, they hold their hand up and said, "Yeah, you're right. You've got me, I'm going to sort it out."
So, there wasn't a chronic episode. But what went earlier on in my career, we played with (beep) here, and now I don't mind saying I borrowed him some money, I went to Australia. But then he just did their own thing in terms of not keeping in touch, basically took money and ran. But then the year after or two years after, he made the international side, Great Britain, and everyone knew that I was about to give him a slap basically.
But I went up to the coach and said, "Look, done the wrong thing by me, but I won't let for one minute interfere with team harmony, that kind of thing." And I went up to (beep) and said, "Look, we're going to sort out when the camp's finished, so everything's fine until then." Anyway, he did leave camp, but he didn't end up... But sometimes you've got to put things to one side.
Barrie McDermott:
Absolutely. And it's quite unusual for people to see us willing to scrap and fight and do everything we have to do on the field, but the underlying issues personality wise is still there, aren't they?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
There is conflict, there is people you don't actually like, but as long as they're good at their job, you'll do what you need to do to make sure that they can excel on the stage.
Adrian Morley:
Well, you don't have to be absolutely best mates and being [inaudible 00:30:13]
Barrie McDermott:
Some people you are.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, yeah, [inaudible 00:30:13].
Barrie McDermott:
But some people you think, I won't walk across the street if I ever see you again. But you are so good at your job. I'll do what I can to make it better.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, well that's true. And what about you, Baz? Have you got any stories about that?
Barrie McDermott:
Yes, and I know what you're alluding to. It was just out here in... What year was it, Moz, would you say 2000?
Adrian Morley:
I just left, so it was 2001 maybe.
Barrie McDermott:
2001. So, there's an Australian forward called Jamie Matthew who I didn't personally get on with. I didn't connect with him in a way. I tried to, but I didn't connect with him, and that's fine.
But he'd been chipping at me and he'd sort of been saying things behind my back, which I put to one side. And I think when I was younger, I would ignore things until they got to a boiling point, and then there was an explosion. Now, I'm more likely to pull the little things and say, "Listen, I don't like that or do that slightly different." But that's maturity, isn't it?
But at the time, there was a collection of small things and we actually came to blows out here before a semi-final. Did you not play? Had you already gone?
Adrian Morley:
No, I'd already gone then, but I'd heard.
Barrie McDermott:
So, you'd heard about it.
Adrian Morley:
I'd heard about it.
Barrie McDermott:
Anyway, we came to blows. I knew as soon as the kettle had switched off, I thought, that's a bad move, that. We played St. Helen's at Wigan, and basically I'd had a scuffle with him and I'd broke his chain. He'd said to me, "My kids bought that chain," which I felt bad because I'm a family man myself.
But rather than getting in my car and going home and forgetting about it, we got on a coach, we stayed in the hotel. I was together with him for the next probably 48 hours. So every time I looked at him, I was like, "Ugh."
Shaun Lunt:
Didn't have any time to cool off.
Barrie McDermott:
Well, I just knew I'd got it wrong. I just knew at that point when the button had been pressed, I don't feel responsible for pressing it. But at the point that button had been pressed and the explosion had happened, I knew I'd got it wrong.
But I think sometimes you have to learn the hard way, don't you? We lost that semi-final. Whether we'd have won or lost if I ain't done that, I don't know. But I look back and I think, yeah, I got that wrong.
Right. We've got a little bit of time left, so we're going to dive into another fun topic. And the topic is comebacks. We've all been part of games. We've all watched games. We've all been in the sport a long, long time. We're in the dying minutes, the result changes or a season has flipped on its head. We love a bit of drama and a bit of rugby drama in particular. So, what's the most memorable comeback you've experienced most, Moz?
Adrian Morley:
I'd say it was 2002 playing down under for the Sydney Roosters. So we started, it was Ricky Stewart's first year as coach. We won our first game against South. It was South Sydney's first game back in the competition after they'd been exiled.
That was a big game. Russell Crow was there at the game, won the first game. Then we lost the next five games. So, you could say the season's going pretty terrible. We had a couple of injuries, suspensions, but then that was the year I had the back issue. So, then as I was training, as I was playing, this constant pain wouldn't go in my back.
So, the last option was surgery. So we had the surgery. It was quite a big operation on the spine. The success rate was good, but it was still a chance that it wouldn't work. So, then I missed nine weeks with this back operation, but then the team, the farm, turned on its head.
And then when I come back from the back operation, we won the last eight games straight to play and win the grand final there in Sydney. So, from a season looked like it could be personally career changing to actually going on to win it, I'd say that was my favorite flip of a season, definitely.
Barrie McDermott:
I do remember that because in 2002, went over to Australia, played Australia in Australia. We got our backsides handed to us, but you were in camp with us well.
Adrian Morley:
I was in camp.
Barrie McDermott:
And you were worried about the surgery.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, yeah. So, I might have even have had the surgery then, but I know I was asked to go in camp, which was fantastic to spend time with you guys, but it was a disastrous only because the travel time from England to Australia... I think you got into Sydney on the Tuesday night and I had to play on Friday or something like that.
But then as I say, it was great to see you and Teddy and all the guys, but then the actual result was 60 odd 10. And then I remember the headlines in the Sydney Morning Herald the next day, "RIP, International Rugby League."
Barrie McDermott:
Thanks for that, Moz.
Adrian Morley:
[inaudible 00:34:43] no where, no more. But that's how... I mean, they love a story over there. They're quite dramatic, but I thought we've come over here, but they'd just come off playing a three game, state of origin series. They were all battle hard.
And then as I say, the travel wasn't great. So then, Great Britain got good hiding and then on the Sunday, I went to Melbourne with the Sydney Roosters and they got about 50 put past them [inaudible 00:35:08].
Barrie McDermott:
No, on the weekend, they [inaudible 00:35:10]
Shaun Lunt:
It's you.
Adrian Morley:
It's me. Yeah. I was the bad luck.
Barrie McDermott:
I always remember we were warming up at the Sydney football stadium, and like I say, we're all over the place, all jet-lagged, woozy, just trying to get into that groove. And I always remember warming up, some Aussie at the back of us said, "McDermott, you've got nothing." And then O'Connor, Tez O'Connor, turned around saying, "Has he been looking at your bank account?" I was like, "Probably. Probably."
But Lunty, what about you? What about a time in your career where it's gone from this to that?
Shaun Lunt:
So for me, it's the most memorable game, probably not the most memorable game in Super League history, but one of the iconic games of the Million Pound Game when we got beat by Salford.
Barrie McDermott:
I was commentating on that, yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
So, we were eight points up with four minutes left. There was Tim Sheens in the stand.
Barrie McDermott:
You mentioned Minsey. Minsey was involved in that back [inaudible 00:35:57], weren't it?
Shaun Lunt:
Minsey, yeah. Minsey played that. Yeah, Minsey broke into the team that year. So, playing in that game and then getting beat in Golden Point and then just seeing the total carnage afterwards, people fighting on the pitch, everyone crying. And then I can remember being in the train station and Tim Sheens rung me, and he said he was still going to come for the next season and do I want to sign.
And because again, going back to what's been instilled in me through rugby, doing my integrity, my morals, I had a part to play in that team going down, and I wanted to rectify my problems. I had young kids at the time and I want them to remember me by doing something, you've done something wrong, now fix it. And that year, I can remember we had a very shy squad first of all in the yard. We had Chris Clarkson, who you've probably coached as well.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
He was number 10. He got given the 10 shirt, had big scrutiny. He'd signed from Waki. He still honored his contract and came. There was myself at nine. We had Ben Caverna, James Donaldson, and Jamie Ellis, he had a fantastic season. And we had Adam Quinlan at the back, at the fullback.
So that year, even though we started winning, and we're grinding out results and then towards the back end of the season working under Tim, he brought in Big Mose Masoe and he brought in Justin Carney. And just at the right time, we beat Leigh at Leigh. They got promoted. So obviously, they came up into Super League. We went down.
We beat Leigh in the Challenge Cup. That year we nearly beat Salford in the Challenge Cup. We just got beat and then playing Widnes, and we literally... So, I think we had two games left to spare. I think Warrington were in the bottom, bottom eight that year.
Barrie McDermott:
Oh yeah, yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
We played Warrington in the last game, but some of us needed surgery. So, we just set out that game. It was a dead rubber.
When people talk about emotions about winning, it was more relief than anything. When that whistle went against Widnes-
Adrian Morley:
Absolutely.
Shaun Lunt:
... it was more relief than... Do you know...
Adrian Morley:
Celebration.
Shaun Lunt:
That celebration, yeah. And then it was just like a massive emotional rollercoaster. And to see now where Hull KR, I was at the Grand Final and to see them where they are now, the travel winners. And it's such a good comeback story, where they were as a team to where they are now, it's unbelievable.
Barrie McDermott:
It's an incredible journey that Hull KR have been part of over the last decade or so. And when you've been part of that, when you've been down at the bottom, you celebrate with them at top. But communication and trust is all part of that growing process. How did it manifest itself for you with communication and trust?
Shaun Lunt:
So, I was given the captaincy that year. And so that year I actually needed a shoulder operation. But if I had surgery, it would've put me out about four months. I would've missed the first part of the season. So, what we decided to do was just inject it and pump painkillers all year.
So, for me, I trusted in the club, I trusted in the players, and hopefully that I earned their trust as well as players. I was their leader. So, I showed right from day dot, I was willing to train through pain to try and rectify it. And that year, like I say, we all gelled together. We worked hard for each other.
There was, obviously, you can imagine what stick we got from the Black and Whites over there, the West side of the city. So, yet that trust is massive because again, going back to the individual stuff and they've got your back. I remember Scruts, he was phenomenal that season. He was just an absolute tank in the middle.
Again, Robin Muller, he came through that year. He was absolutely brilliant, and you could just rely on on everyone, Ryan Shaw on the wing, who got to winning try. Everyone just played their part, their little part, as a collective, as a team that we produced a promotion winning season.
Barrie McDermott:
Moz, during that time where you were recovering from your operation, we'll talk about the influence of the dark cloud of a succession of defeat. What was the trust from your teammates and the communication like?
Adrian Morley:
Ricky Stewart was big on everyone sticking together throughout the win or lose, that kind of thing. And they did come right while I asked the boys, and there was a great camaraderie, a great team spirit, but we did have a few injuries. But then once we started getting the boys back, myself included, that's when you could see a bit more belief in the boys.
Anyway, once we started winning and then winning and winning, and it was a knock-on effect then. But I'd like to think we did lose hope all year, even though we had a terrible start. We did keep faith in the coaches and what we were trying to achieve, and ultimately, we ended up going all the way.
Barrie McDermott:
But the fact that you weren't isolated, people were talking to you were still kept in.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, still kept in.
Barrie McDermott:
The team, meant that when you were ready and available, you felt like you took your natural place. It's interesting, actually. I think I mentioned on one of the other podcasts, when I joined Oldham, first night out after my debut, I'm at the bar with my heroes, but my mates from my amateur club are across the pub.
And I went to walk over and one of the lads said, "No, you're with us now. We're your mates." When I went to Wigan, I got injured about halfway through the season and continued to go out because I thought it was an expectation that you kept with the lads and you went to the games, you celebrated, you commiserated together. I remember one of the lads at Wiggins saying, "No, listen, you need to focus on getting yourself right. Don't be getting out on the drink with the lads.
"Get in the gym, make sure you're fresh the day after a game and you're in the gym early and the coaches are seeing you trying to make an effort to get yourself right." And it was two contrasting philosophies, probably Oldham's success rate and Wigan's success rate determines which one was the best way to go.
But success, failure, it's all intrinsically linked, isn't it, because every Rocky story, Rocky doesn't start by winning, does he? He starts down at the bottom and that journey is the biggest part of the lesson.
Some brilliant stuff there, lads. I really enjoyed the comeback chat. So let's get into the takeaways. Let's deal with, first of all, selfless acts in a team. We talked about sometimes you're in front, sometimes you're top behind. Lunty?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, I can always remember when I was a plumber, an apprentice plumber, and the guy that I was working with, he couldn't drive. So, I used to do all the driving. Again, I used to be up early, but again, together as a team that we worked together, and again, looking in the boardroom and whatnot, it's all about the team and encouraging people and supporting them in the right way and not putting your own agenda before theirs.
Barrie McDermott:
Moz, teamwork, it's integral that you do your bit to make sure the outcome is a positive one.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, that's right. I mean, you can take so many points from the game of Rugby League into the business world. And yeah, you've got to be selfless. You've got to do what has to be done for the sake of the team rather than yourself. So, you've got to sacrifice. You've got to just basically do what has to be done.
Barrie McDermott:
Lunty, one of the important parts of that place is honesty, isn't it?
Adrian Morley:
Yes.
Barrie McDermott:
How important is it to be honest in the working environment?
Shaun Lunt:
Hugely important. Again, whether you're on the rugby pitch or in a working environment, everything's the same, the same process behind it. You've got to be honest, you got to have them honest chats that like we talked about that are uncomfortable, but you sometimes have to have those chats. And it's again, just getting comfortable in them uncomfortable situations.
Barrie McDermott:
Moz, taking responsibility for your actions is ultimately going to earn you the trust from the people around you.
Adrian Morley:
Without a doubt, you need to be accountable and that's on the training field, on game day, but in the boardrooms, just how you go about your business, you need to do the right things that need to be done for the sake of the big team.
Barrie McDermott:
So, anybody listening to this, lads, anybody listening to this thinking they want a positive environment, they want people around them that are contributing to the direction that they want to go forward in, what advice can you give them?
Adrian Morley:
You got to be close, you got to be tight. I mean, try and get yourself out of the everyday working life. If it's your family, have experiences away, but the more time you can spend each other's company, it's only going to be beneficial for the team.
Shaun Lunt:
And going on the company, it's very important, the company that you surround shop with.
Adrian Morley:
You choose them wisely, yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
Yes. Because again, you might have some negative influences, and there could be just that little devil just chirping away, chirping away. And they'll probably, again, they want you to do what they want to do. And again, going back to the team, it's that selfless act. You're doing stuff to better other people rather than yourself.
Barrie McDermott:
And then lastly, how important is communication in the working environment and particularly listening to others?
Shaun Lunt:
Especially from our background, when you're communicating, you've got to communicate different to other people. Again, respect their needs, respect their boundaries, and be mindful the way that you deliver it, because the way that you might get the best out of someone is maybe give them a bit of a grilling and pump them up. Whereas the next person might go in the shell and go down. So, you've got to know the individual.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, totally agree. You got to know your individuals. Got to know the strengths of each team member, the weaknesses, and work on that. And as a team, together, everyone achieves more, Barrie.
Barrie McDermott:
Well, we got there, didn't we? The dream team are getting a little bit better at this. Thank God, Moz, as you got through it, you've had a couple of hefty days in Spain.
Adrian Morley:
I have. Yeah. My old mate, Carlo Napolitano, best mates since we were kids. He's been to see his mom and dad in Spain.
Barrie McDermott:
I think that's for your life story.
Adrian Morley:
[inaudible 00:45:45].
Barrie McDermott:
I just said that you were slightly hungover. Lunty, you did well, you enjoyed it?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, it's been really good and need a break now because he stinks of piss.
Barrie McDermott:
Thank you for joining us on Changing Rooms, brought to you by our good friends at Elect. Remember to like and subscribe, and we'll see you next time.