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✅ Virtual Reality in Education
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Shannon: Hello, and welcome everybody to a first ever Putman's Podcast Pops live on the scene out here at the NSTA conference, and I am with the most amazingly named woman- ... at this entire conference.
It's Peggy, and I would like to welcome you.
But- How has the conference been so far?
It's
Peggy: been wonderful.
I presented yesterday first thing in the morning.
I had the first session on first day, and I had about 20 participants, so I was excited- Yes ... on teaching tolerance through genetics-
Mm-hmm ... based on a 2018 National Geographic article, or whole issue called The Science of Race, because race is a construct.
We made it up.
Shannon: There you go.
How could it be more fitting?
I couldn't agree more.
I know.
As somebody who taught at a Title I school that was- Yep ... 80% minority, I always thought that I was doing a good job for my students of color, and I didn't realize, just 'cause I didn't know, that there was things I could've been doing better.
Yep.
Peggy: And- And my students at the lab, we all looked at our skin cells and I said, "Old white lady skin cells over here," and they all were amazed that mine looked just like yours.
Mm-hmm.
I'm like, "That's right," and Alanis Morissette said it, that we're all made of the same cells.
There
Shannon: you
Peggy: go.
Who better than Alanis Morissette?
I know.
So-
Shannon: My
Peggy: sister from another mister.
Shannon: There you go.
Alanis, subscribe to the pod.
Which you're supposed to do.
I'm not good at that a- at that advertising my pod, but- It's okay
So I've heard that you have done something a little bit different in the classroom, and I cannot wait to hear about it.
Peggy: Okay.
Well, 16 years ago, I was actually at a conference.
I was at a conference and a gentleman was b- uh, doing his schtick or whatever, and he ended with a video by a young man named Dan Brown, who has also been tortured in the media.
But the point of his little talk was, "Hey, teachers, wake up.
You- we don't need all of this.
We have this at our fingerprint t- um, fingertips, so why are you still giving us notes?
Why are we still using textbooks?
Why are we still all doing all this?" And it just clicked in my head to flip my classroom.
I no longer stand and lecture.
I- Yeah ... uh, if I do have to do a mini lesson, I tell the kids, "I'm teaching a la 1997 and it's no more than 10 minutes," and they don't take notes.
Everything is applied directly with either ha- um, labs, literacy tasks, hands-on activities, posters or projects.
Not posters, projects.
I teach high school.
and then I upload all the Google Docs and all the PowerPoints that they need.
There is nary a PowerPoint in my room.
There's no beep.
There's no, um, what's the guy from Ferris Bueller?
There's no voodoo economics.
Bueller.
Bueller.
Yep, none of that.
Ben Stein, baby.
And it's relieved my stress.
I don't have to wait.
I d- especially with a 90-minute class block, I'm not bowing for students or vying for students' attention.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, it's more time to play and learn and explore.
Shannon: So basically meeting the students where they are and doing things that they enjoy, and then seeing
Peggy: good results.
Right.
And the students that need to, they can go back into the PowerPoints and the Google Classroom, and they can find the sources.
They can find the information.
And I can upload little YouTube videos, Amoeba Sisters or whatever, to help them if they need it, or little VidBill Nye clips if they need it.
it's, it's just relieved a lot of burden- Mm-hmm ... and saved my voice.
Shannon: I absolutely love it.
And as somebody who always integrated movement and didn't lecture a lot and things like that into her classroom, I'm just gonna take a wild stab at this, but I'm guessing that people probably thought that you were crazy.
Peggy: Yes, because how are they gonna get the content?
Well, uh, they can read, or if they can't read, they can highlight it and get it to play back to them, or they can watch a video.
And by the way, I'm teaching the standard still in the classroom.
Yes.
Because if it's worthwhile, you can make it a lab, and then my questions that I create for the labs are very thought-provoking.
Mm-hmm.
And so I can challenge them that way.
A lot
Shannon: of real-world examples.
Right.
And there's
Peggy: no, like, grading on how good your notes are.
Who cares?
Right?
I don't know where
Shannon: that started.
So- Especially 'cause my penmanship looks like a four-year-old boy.
Right.
Um, so mine was always horrible.
And on that same note too, how do you feel about
Peggy: homework?
I believe that for some things like math, I think it's important to get that repetition and, but you have to do it right.
So I like it in a flipped classroom.
It was actually a math teacher that helped me with this too.
Sh- we had a good discussion that you start the homework in class to make sure they're doing it right because there's a statistic, like, if you do something wrong, you have to do it 10 times the correct way to undo what you just did.
Sometimes even more.
So for classrooms that require that, for a class subjects like that, I believe that in some activity, but not 75 problems, you know, answers question one through 50 odds only or evens only.
That was always driving me nuts.
Right.
And, and now the kids can use artificial intelligence to find the answers anyway.
I just believe that homework is kind of a thing of the past if you use your class time well, and then if they don't finish it, they can do it on their own.
Mm-hmm.
Projects, of course, at the college level, they're gonna work outside of the classroom.
Of course.
But I'm a high school teacher.
Shannon: Right.
And also, everything that I always did was meaningful, and I didn't give work just to give work.
Correct.
You know?
Like, okay, you got a check, check, check.
Right.
Like, it, it, why?
And it drives
Peggy: me nuts that people are going to assign something and not grade it.
Shannon: That too.
If anybody watches Abbott Elementary, they just had an episode about this.
I,
Peggy: oh, no, I can't stream it.
I don't have that app for it.
Oh.
But I love it.
I'm waiting till they put them all on something- Yes ... and then I can watch them all 'cause I love that show.
They literally, it was a whole homework episode.
But I had a college professor last, I won't say any names, won't say any college- Right
because I'm working on my EdD, but- I hear you ... they assigned this huge project, which was all online, and we had to collaborate with
somebody, read a book, do a book study, do a 90-minute presentation on a Google Slide, then, and we had to participate in it, never graded it.
And the professor- And probably had to do discussion boards too
ran out of t- well, I don't mind, but she, they ran out of time.
This is on top of all the other work.
Wow.
They ran out of time, and it never got graded.
No, see, mm-mm.
And I was in- insulted.
Yes.
And so I, homework, unless you have time to grade it, and unless it's necessary, then it's very thoughtful.
It has to be, must be thoughtful, intentional, and done with integrity.
Shannon: And then when you grade it, actually use the information that you've gleaned- Correct ... from that homework to then adjust what you do.
I have no problem asking students, "Do you wanna revisit this?" Yes.
I love that term, by the way, revisit this.
That's fantastic.
I'm gonna steal that.
It's gonna be props to Peggy.
Peggy: The other thing is the case against the zero.
Okay.
Back in- What, what's this?
... 2001, I had a math teacher tell me why, um, give me the whole demonstration.
Zero to 59 is an F, right?
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
60 to 69 is a D. Every other grade level has the 10 points, but a F has z- um, 59 points.
So if you do the math, if a student gets a zero on something, it's gonna take them five good grades to get rid of that zero.
Okay, yes.
It's mathematically unfair.
I hear you.
So I put in for labs, in-class assignments, um, projects, I put in 50 percents whether they did it or not.
I love it.
And it doesn't break my heart.
Really.
Um, now for te- for tests, it's the real score.
Yeah.
But, um, for that, and then s- um, nay-sayers are like, "Well, a kid can do nothing and still pass." I go, "If you do the math, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50 divided by 10 or whatever, it's still gonna be 50." Still gonna be 50.
That's still a failure.
And fractions make me cry- Right ... as a 43-year-old, and I still can get that.
So, um, there's no harm in it.
No.
And I've asked teachers, "Just try it." Right.
And it's called the case against the zero.
And- Love it ... it helps our special ed- um, special education students who have struggled, especially post-COVID- Yep
to feel some success.
Shannon: Right.
Uh, because as somebody who struggled heavily in math- Right ... it was so defeating when you think you did good, and then you get the test
back and it is a 59- Right ... 'cause I've gotten them, and everything else, and it's like I'm working so hard and it's not reflecting.
And I also don't think standardized, just tested general- No, well, that's a whole nother-
show intelligence.
Exact- that's a whole nother podcast- Yes ... which I'm gonna invite Peggy on for a full episode.
Yes, because I have,
Peggy: if a, if a 50% is passing, how valid is the assessment?
But that's a whole nother bane of my existence.
Got you.
But it also helps in high-truant schools to give those students a chance.
We put in 50 percents for assignments they were absent for.
Mm-hmm.
And you don't have an alternate lab for them to make it up.
Right.
Just providing every student the opportunity we want, you know, as adults.
Shannon: Yeah.
Peggy: You know?
Unbelievable.
Shannon: And let me guess, the, the school didn't burn
Peggy: down, right?
No.
She said the same thing.
No, the school didn't burn down.
No pants on fire.
Mm-hmm.
No one passed who shouldn't have passed.
Thank you.
And of course, who am I to ju- they did something.
They met the standard.
Right, uh, exactly.
And the kids were in school.
They got, they got the credit for biology.
Mm-hmm.
And then if a parent says, "How'd my child fail?"
I said, "They failed with me putting in 50%, so let's flip the script and ask the child, how did they fail?" Right.
Shannon: Uh, there's gotta be some accountability.
Peggy: Right.
I feel like
Shannon: that's been missing.
Right.
And I love that that's a way to do it, where there's accountability, but still motivation.
Peggy: Yep.
I ask the student, "Why did you fail?"
Mm-hmm.
It's not, I didn't fail you, you failed yourself.
Right.
Oh,
Shannon: Peggy- Welcome ... this has been amazing.
Thanks.
I literally, Peggy will be a future guest on Popham's Podcast, pop two, for a full episode.
Thank you so much.
Well, reach out
Peggy: to
Shannon: me.
Peggy: It's awesome.
Absolutely.