Lioness Conversations: Faith-Fueled Stories of Women Leaders & Founders | Leadership rooted in Christ | Unleash Your Inner Lioness: Bridging the Confidence Gap

Unleash Your Inner Lioness: Bridging the Confidence Gap

Ever felt that nagging voice of self-doubt holding you back? In this powerful episode of Lioness Conversations, host Jen Porter sits down with Wall Street Journal bestselling author and confidence strategist, Sheena Yap Chan, to tackle the confidence gap head-on. Sheena, renowned for her podcast "The Tao of Self-Confidence" and her latest book "Bridging the Confidence Gap," is on a mission to empower women and accelerate gender parity.

Join us as we dive into:

The urgency of now: Discover why total gender parity is still decades away and what we can do to bridge that gap faster.
The power of self-promotion: Learn to reframe "self-promotion" from a negative to a powerful tool for visibility and impact.
Courage before confidence: Understand why taking brave, small steps is the key to building unshakeable self-belief.
Embracing failure: Hear inspiring stories and practical advice on creating safe spaces to stumble, learn, and grow.
Overcoming imposter syndrome: Sheena shares her personal journey, including nearly turning down a major book deal due to self-doubt, and how she found the courage to claim her voice.
The impact of trauma: Explore how past experiences, including intergenerational and historical trauma, can subtly shape our confidence and how to begin the healing process.
The importance of visibility and representation: Learn why women showing up and being seen is crucial for breaking barriers and inspiring others.

Sheena's journey from a childhood setback that impacted her view of failure to becoming a celebrated author and speaker is a testament to the transformative power of self-awareness, community, and relentless action. This episode is a must-listen for any woman ready to unlock her true potential, embrace uncertainty, and contribute to a world where every woman leads with confidence and joy.

Ready to discover your unique confidence personality?

Visit SheenaYapChan.com to take her free quiz and explore her books, Bridging the Confidence Gap and The Tao of Self-Confidence, available wherever books are sold. You can also find "The Tao of Self-Confidence" podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Join the Lioness Community: https://www.jenportercoach.com/

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Lioness Conversations
01:03 Bridging the Confidence Gap
02:52 The Importance of Self-Promotion
05:23 Courage Before Confidence
08:56 Creating Safe Spaces for Failure
11:24 The Challenge of Self-Promotion
15:26 Taking Small Steps to Build Confidence
18:53 The Role of Coaches and Community
21:44 The Journey to Self-Confidence
25:21 Lessons from 10 Years of Podcasting
27:38 Evolving Through Experience
28:59 Embracing Rejection and Learning from Mistakes
30:58 The Journey to Authorship and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
33:42 Understanding Trauma and Its Impact on Confidence
35:30 The Importance of Visibility and Representation
38:57 Cultural Influences on Self-Confidence and Healing
42:51 Finding Purpose and Embracing Uncertainty
46:11 Empowering Women Through Visibility and Action

Creators and Guests

Host

Jen Porter

Corporate leader turned entrepreneur, I created "Lioness Conversations" to amplify the voices of extraordinary women—leaders who have faced fear, overcome challenges, and are now shaping the world with their work. This podcast is a space for courage, truth, and deep inspiration. My mission is to empower women to be brave, leading with confidence and joy, to do the most meaningful work of their lives.

Guest

Sheena Yap Chan

Sheena Yap Chan is a Wall Street Journal bestselling author, keynote speaker, award-winning podcaster, and strategist renowned for empowering women to elevate their leadership and self-confidence. With her acclaimed podcast, The Tao of Self-Confidence and bestselling books, Sheena is passionately dedicated to closing the gender confidence gap and inspiring leaders worldwide.

What is Lioness Conversations: Faith-Fueled Stories of Women Leaders & Founders | Leadership rooted in Christ?

Welcome to Lioness Conversations: Faith-Fueled Stories of Women Leaders & Founders — a space where purpose-driven women share how their faith in Christ shapes their leadership, courage, and calling. 🦁

Hosted by Jen Porter, leadership and empowerment coach, this podcast shines a light on women who are leading with wisdom, strength, and grace — in boardrooms, businesses, ministries, and movements around the world.

Through raw, inspiring conversations, we explore how women of faith are building legacies, overcoming fear, and transforming their industries with bold vision and unshakable belief. If you’re ready to rise higher, lead with purpose, and stay rooted in Christ — this is your community.

Jen Porter (00:00)
Hey, Lioness, welcome to the show, Lioness Conversations, where we help women be brave, to lead with confidence and joy, and to find your path to the most meaningful work of your life. I'm your host, Jen Porter, leadership and empowerment coach for ambitious and heart-centered women who are ready to change the world. You can find out more about the work I do and the Lioness community at jenportercoach.com.

You can also go to the website to nominate a lioness for this podcast. And yes, you can nominate yourself. Today, we are immensely privileged to welcome Sheena Yap Chan, a Wall Street Journal bestselling author, keynote speaker, award-winning podcaster, and strategist renowned for empowering women to elevate their leadership and self-confidence. With her acclaimed podcast, The Tao of Self-Confidence and bestselling books.

Sheena is passionately dedicated to closing the gender confidence gap and inspiring leaders worldwide. Sheena, welcome to the show.

Sheena Yap Chan (01:03)
Thank you so much for having me, Jennifer. Super excited to be here to chat about confidence and everything else.

Jen Porter (01:09)
Yeah, so tell us what you're doing. mean, your latest book has just come out. So, you know, Bridging the Confidence Gap. Tell us about that.

Sheena Yap Chan (01:20)
Yeah, so my latest book is called Bridging the Confidence Gap, How Empowered Women Changed the World. And that really stemmed from a report from the World Economic Forum that mentioned total gender parity would be achieved at the earliest in the year 2154. So yes, 2154. You heard that right, unfortunately. And unfortunately, also, that's when I wrote the book. So I wrote the book last summer.

And now it's actually delayed four more years. So they're saying it's going to be the year 2158 before we see total gender parity. So when you think about that, that will probably take about at least five generations before we see that. And at the rate that we're going, I feel like it's going to get longer just because of what's going on in the world. You look at what's happening and...

in different parts of the world. Women still are second class to men. Women are still treated unfairly. You look at countries like Afghanistan where women can't even go to school, have a job, can't even sing in public or sing in their own homes, show their faces. So it's really a big, I guess, eye-opener to see this, but it's also up to us to figure out how can we bridge that gap so that it's a lot.

closer, of course, right? We don't want to wait 133 years for gender parity to be achieved. you know, I touch on different things such as the biases we go through as women. know, imposter syndrome is something most women deal with. And also learning to do things such as like a self promotion. I know self promotion is really hard for some women. Myself included. I mean, I put myself out there, but it doesn't mean I like doing it. It's still very uncomfortable. But I also realize it's important.

Jen Porter (02:47)
Mm.

Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (03:02)
because that's how we create visibility to show others what's possible. So it's not just about meets for everyone out there. So the more we show up, the more we speak up, the more we put ourselves in these spaces, the more we can break barriers, create history and bridge that gap slowly. So especially for women, so many women out there are more than capable. They're so amazing, they're so talented, but what really stops them is how they perceive themselves. And so the gap is really that disconnect with

you know, how capable you are versus the belief on how capable you are. So you need to have that belief because without that belief, you're not going to go out there and do whatever it is you want to do, whether it's a start a business, become a, have a high position in a corporate setting, whatever that looks like. It does take that belief in yourself.

Jen Porter (03:49)
It does. The reason I was so excited to have you on here to talk about this is because there's so much alignment in the work that you do and the work that I do and what I'm inviting other women into. that and you know so much of the work is about belief. And what I am finding is that we understand ourselves more clearly when we have the reflection of other people as our mirror. When others can speak

truth and confidence and insights into us that allows us to see ourselves in a way that we couldn't see before. So we need each other in this work, don't we?

Sheena Yap Chan (04:28)
Yes, we definitely do. think people don't realize, especially as women, it's important to work together. I know we've been programmed to do everything ourselves. You know, we've been programmed that we need to be the superwoman of everything. And that gets really exhausting. Like men don't do that. Men outsource a lot of things. Men, even if they don't like each other, they'll still work together for a common goal. You know, unfortunately, there's we still have this lack mentality where there's only one person at the top. And unfortunately, sometimes

It's the women that tear other women down. And sometimes this is not talked about enough, but it is an important conversation because we do need to learn to work together so we can create the changes that we need to see in this world. And especially when you hear things like gender parity being achieved at the earliest of the year, 2158, no one wants to wait that long. And I believe when we can work together, that's how we can make big changes. So we don't have to do this alone.

We're not alone in this journey. I mean, there's a reason why you also reached out to me is because we have a common goal. We want to talk about these pressing issues that still happen today.

Jen Porter (05:31)
Yeah. So what do you talk about in the book that helps women grasp the concept, but then also what kind of solutions do you offer?

Sheena Yap Chan (05:41)
Yeah, mean, I think how we perceive things is really important, right? So like failure, the perception of failure has always been seen in a negative light, right? You go to school, you fail, you have to go to school all over again, right? And then that brings us down, our confidence, our self-esteem down, because we think, we're a failure, we're no good, we didn't do this properly. When in the real world, failure is actually good, right? We fail forward, we fail fast.

So we can find different solutions, right? People want to work with you because you've been through what they've been through and you are the answer. And so when you can figure out how you got from point A to point B, that's where they want to work with you. They want to pay the money to work with you because you've been through those obstacles and you were able to come out of it, right? So if we show up not having failures, being perfect, who's going to buy stuff from us? We don't have a solution, right? Because everything's perfect. And really perfection is not.

attainable, right? And so also giving examples of women who have gone through failure and succeeded, right? Because sometimes we need to see it before we believe it, right? For some people, they need to see there's someone out there, there's a woman out there who's gone through it, who's been able to overcome it and come out of it, right? So I think the most important thing is being aware of these problems. And yes, I do provide different solutions, different strategies that they can work.

Jen Porter (06:48)
Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (07:04)
work on in the book that can help them in their everyday life. You know, one thing I talk about too is the importance of having courage, right? Courage before confidence, because we all have fears. I know going, like overcoming fear is so big. Like it's like you put this thing on a pedestal, you think it's something that you really can't attain, but really it's a lot easier than you think when you can work on your mindset, when you can see what's on the other side.

Jen Porter (07:24)
Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (07:30)
And when you can see that it really builds your confidence. So those are some of the things that I talk about. And of course, self-promotion. So seeing self-promotion as something positive versus negative, it's all about really pre-framing all these things, right? When we can see things from a different perspective, it just makes life a lot, not easier, but just know that we have to go through this and that it's okay and that everyone goes through this. I think sometimes...

Jen Porter (07:34)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (07:57)
social media plays like, social media plays with our heads, right? Unfortunately, it can be good, it can be bad. You know, we look at photos, they're perfectly curated, and we think we have to attain to that, not realizing we don't have apps that will, in real life, know, hide our love handles, take out our pimples. I mean, in real life, we show up as ourself. And the only way to, you know, change that is through surgery. And, you know, sometimes that's also dangerous because there's so many people.

Jen Porter (08:16)
Hahaha

Sheena Yap Chan (08:26)
who are addicted to it because of a self esteem issue. So yeah.

Jen Porter (08:32)
Wow,

yeah, so much of what you're saying resonates. One of the things that's on my mind is how important it is to have a safe culture in order to take those risks. I was just talking with a leader last week and maybe working with a leader in their organization and he is somebody that actually creates a really safe space for failing. And I just thought, how refreshing is this? I was like, you don't know how rare you are.

because he's like, if my team is not failing often, then they're not doing enough. They're not pushing the limits. They should be failing. And I want to create a space for that where that is not only accepted, but expected. Not only accepted, yeah, but expected. And I just think that's so important even in families and communities and friendships. No matter what the scenario, we have to be in a place where

Sheena Yap Chan (09:18)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (09:26)
we can be ourselves and show up messy and make mistakes and not get it right every day because to your point, I think perfection is a farce. It is not attainable. And when we set those expectations on ourselves, it is really debilitating. It holds us back and it's like we never can arrive, you know? It's an impossible expectation.

Sheena Yap Chan (09:51)
It really is, right? it's, I guess, put on women more than men. We have to show up a certain way. We have to be ladylike. We can't make any noise. We can't share any of our accomplishments. But I mean, all those things are important to show up to build confidence to be a leader. I remember speaking to a lady who works for Google, and she mentioned how Google also has a website where they celebrate their failures, right? It's like,

Jen Porter (10:16)
Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (10:16)
Google

failures.com. don't even know, but there is a website where employees can share their failures and it's celebrated. And I think that is so amazing because nobody does that, right? Like it is important to share our failures to celebrate it because those are the failures that will get us to the success that we want to have, right? And it doesn't matter if you've fallen down 10 times, a hundred times, a thousand times, 10,000 times. It's about picking yourself back up.

and keep moving as long as what you're doing is in alignment and it makes sense for you, right? There's gonna be some things that we do that might not make sense anymore. And I think that's okay to say too. Like, you know, sometimes you feel like, but I've invested so much and this is not, you know, I'm still chasing, like doing this. But sometimes we do things and it doesn't feel right. And we have to learn to let it go, learn to trust our intuition, especially as women, we're very intuitive, but we don't practice it.

And yes, it's gonna take time. It's not gonna be easy, but the more we keep doing it, the better we get at it. So yeah.

Jen Porter (11:16)
I do a lot of work with women on trusting themselves, trusting that intuition, because that is where wisdom lives. And if we can grab hold of that, you know, starting small, doing it in small bites and like, how did that go when I trusted myself? And then do bigger and bigger and bigger things because we learn that, you know, we can trust ourselves even if we make a mistake. It's totally fine. The other thing that you said that...

think it's a little bit of, it's kind of a squirrely topic is the self-promotion. I don't ever call it self-promotion when I'm working on it with clients because I work mostly with women and they get really uncomfortable. so I call it presenting yourself in the best way possible in your interviews because I used to do a ton of career coaching.

Sheena Yap Chan (11:50)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (12:01)
And then also in branding, I do a lot of work with business owners and, and leaders on their personal brand. And people are very uncomfortable with it. I work with so many women who are in marketing and they are brilliant, brilliant when they do it for other people or their company, but to do it, to turn those same skills inward and do it for ourselves is really a challenge. And so we need other people to help us find that.

But that branding, it's like if we can't communicate who we are and the value that we bring no one else, we can't expect other people to see it.

Sheena Yap Chan (12:37)
Yeah. And, know, I don't, I don't think there's anything wrong with the term self-promotion, right? I mean, especially if you're in business for yourself, like it's going to have to start with you sharing what you're doing, sharing your products and services, sharing how what you do can help impact a person's life for the better because you're providing a solution. And again, it's all about pre-framing, right? Seeing it from a, from a positive light instead of a negative light. Like for me, yeah, I didn't like it either. I thought it was tacky. It's not ladylike because I've been conditioned.

to think that way. And so we have to learn to unlearn the things that we've been told to see how self-promotion really helps and cite examples on what it can do for you, right? Like you look at the Barbie movie where it was constant promotion, right? Like the summer of 2023, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing the color pink. Every company wanted to collaborate with them. Even Xbox had a Barbie theme Xbox, which is like the most random thing ever.

right? But because of the constant promotion, it led to the first billion dollar movie that was solely directed by a woman. And that is big because, you know, for so long, Hollywood kept saying that women aren't bankable. But yet here's a movie about a doll that made a billion dollars worldwide directed by a woman. And so when I see things like that, that pumps me up. And then it helps me just go out there and push.

because I also realize it's not just about me. It's other women out there who feel scared, who feel like they need permission. I want to, I just show up so that one other, if I have one other woman just show up and share what they do, then for me, that's, I've done my job. Cause then it could be a domino effect. And you know, in the book, I also share different ways where it doesn't have to feel tacky, right? Like it feels okay. It feels light. There's different ways to, to like,

Sorry, my phone went off. There's different ways to promote yourselves without feeling tacky, right? And you can do it indirectly because people don't realize, like, especially on social media, right? I mean, before social media, they said it took seven times before someone, before a person made, or they had to see your product seven times before they made a buying decision. So that was before social media. With TikTok and all these different apps,

Jen Porter (14:35)
Mm-hmm.

Sheena Yap Chan (14:55)
It's going to be four times more of that. So like at least 30 times before someone makes the buying decision because we get easily distracted, right? We've been distracted with TikTok frills and Instagram photos and LinkedIn posts and Facebook posts. So now you have to bring it up more because social media makes it even harder for you to put yourself out there. Not harder, but like you have to do a little bit more work.

Jen Porter (14:59)
you

Totally. Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (15:23)
to get the message across. Yeah.

Jen Porter (15:23)
We have to do more to stand out.

I know a lot of women who are have their own businesses or starting their own businesses and they do get really uncomfortable with putting themselves out there and doing posts, doing videos, doing marketing. And it is vulnerable, I mean, if we look at it, to do it for somebody else, to do it for a company that we're working for is very different.

than doing it for ourselves because we're in a sense selling ourselves or the thing that we've created. And so what I have found is that the thing that helps us do that is when we are super clear on what we're about. Like you're about confidence. You're about empowering women to be more self-confident. When you know that and you're clear on it, it's way easier to talk about it. You're like, this is what I stand for.

This is super important to me and you need to know this is what I am bringing into the world. So the more clear we are on our mission, the easier it is to talk about it. Don't you think the same?

Sheena Yap Chan (16:21)
Yeah. For

sure. For sure. Like for me, I have a bigger purpose. It's not just about me. So when I put myself out there, I'm also putting it out there for all the other women who feel uncomfortable, who are going through the same feelings that I went through when I first started promoting myself. I mean, I remember putting out my first blog and it was like terrifying because, you know, I'm sharing it with my friends and family on the internet. What if they make fun of me? What if they think I'm nuts? And it was funny because when I posted it,

Jen Porter (16:26)
Yeah!

Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (16:49)
on Facebook, there's a setting where you can, set your audience. And so I said it just so that I could see it and nobody else. Like that's how bad it was when I first started. And yeah, because I was scared to really share it out to everybody, but. But at least I posted it. Like that's the first step I posted it. And then slowly I just kept doing it. Right. And visibility for me is really, yeah. Sorry. Sorry.

Jen Porter (16:59)
So only you can see your post.

Yeah, it's so vulnerable!

You're so good.

I love that

you shared that because you've been doing this for a long time, but you can still remember that now it's easy, now it's way easier, but in the beginning, wow, it felt really, really scary, and that's how lot of women are feeling. And these are women who are

completely competent, like highly successful, but when they transition into doing something where they're branding themselves, it does feel different. So what was it, because I think this is gonna be really relatable to all the listeners, what was it about posting that blog that felt scary? Why was it scary?

Sheena Yap Chan (17:52)
Yeah, because it was my first time, right? When you're starting out, you when you're doing something for the first time, you've never done something before. It's very uncomfortable. You start getting anxiety. You start having butterflies in your stomach. You're afraid of what people might think. And especially coming from a culture where it's like very conservative, like it's not typical. It's like very unconventional. So I had all these feelings and I said, okay, I'm just going to post it. And then I was like, but I'll send it to my audience first. And then.

Jen Porter (18:19)
love

that baby step, and that's such a great lesson for us because it's like when you said doing the really big thing, breaking it down, you said put something on a pedestal, it feels so scary and impossible, but breaking it down into really small steps, and that's what, it's like what is your very next actionable step? breaking it down to as small as we need it to be for us to make it doable.

Sheena Yap Chan (18:20)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (18:44)
And then when we do it, how did it feel when you actually put it out there?

Sheena Yap Chan (18:50)
felt scared, but at the same time, felt like, okay, I did it. Like I did it. I celebrated it. Right. So, yeah, I, for me, I always believe in the small actionable daily steps as well. That's what yields the big results. You know, sometimes when you go from zero to a hundred, and you don't attain that goal, it actually brings our confidence down. Well, for me, it did. And so I realized just taking it step by step is actually a lot better because when we can just take it one step at a time and, and succeed it.

Jen Porter (18:54)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (19:16)
builds our confidence and we're like, if we can do this, what's in, we can do the next step and then the next step until you reach that goal. And, and, you know, if I didn't do that, then I wouldn't be here today, but it took a lot out of me just to post something, even if I said it on, on, private or just set that just for me. Yeah.

Jen Porter (19:33)
this for you. That was your step.

Can you say more about the difference between taking the very small daily steps versus trying to go to a hundred and two quick of a time? Because I think that's that it does. I find that when we have success in the small things, it actually serves like fuel. It fuels us and creates momentum to keep doing more small things. So what's the difference in trying to do?

too big of a step too soon.

Sheena Yap Chan (20:04)
Yeah, I mean, especially if you're not experienced, right? You're trying to do this big step. You don't know what you're doing and you're not going to attain it. Yeah, you're going to feel bad, right? Because they're like, I just set, I set this big goal. You know, like say you want to make $10,000 in a week and then you made a hundred. Then you're like, I'm such a loser. Cause I didn't make 10,000. I only made a hundred. so then instead of doing that big goal, just say, you know what? I'm going to just do like $5 a day. Like you can make $5 a day. Right. And by the end of five.

dollars a day at the end of the month, it's like 300 bucks. So it's not bad, right? It's a start. Wait, no, wait, did I say that right? No, it's like 50. No, I did that wrong. It's like 250 bucks. No, now I can't even do my math. It's like $150, but it's still like, it's still money, right? You're able to create that money. or a lot of people want to write a book and they're so afraid to write a book because they think it's like this big thing that they have to do. And like, they have to write 80,000 words in like two months.

And like, you can set a goal to say you want to just write one page a day for a whole year straight. So by the end of the year, you have a whole book or you can split that into two. So that's that for me, that is better than just setting that goal and then trying to attain it right away. And then you don't get it. And then your confidence goes down way more because you're like, I didn't do that. It's like, because you're trying to set something that's super impossible, right? Like really, I'm not saying it's possible.

It's not possible, but it's not possible at that moment, right? So that's the difference. And I always tell people Rome wasn't built in a day, right? So you have to give yourself some grace. Like think about that. You know, it just, so yeah.

Jen Porter (21:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm curious, did you end up working with coaches or business coaches, anybody that helps you on your journey or did you really just, were you on your own in this?

Sheena Yap Chan (21:54)
no, I did, invested in like group coaching and masterminds to kind of help me see things from a different perspective. You know, having somebody kind of guide you or just kind of throw you off the cliff really helps you propel your confidence and then just go out there and do the things that you were meant to do. So I don't think doing it alone is great, but it's going to delay you a little bit, right? Because we all have blind spots and if we don't, and they're blind spots for a reason because

Jen Porter (22:16)
Right.

Sheena Yap Chan (22:21)
We can't see it. So that's why you need a second pair of eyes, a third pair of eyes to tweak those blind spots so you can move forward. my confidence jump started when I decided to surround myself with like-minded people, when I had someone who was kind of helping me just along the way, just really like pushing me to do it. it just like jumpstart, it was just like a big difference.

Jen Porter (22:43)
Yeah, I find that when it's somebody who is challenging us, but is also so for us, like you can feel their support and their advocacy and their belief. I that makes all the difference for me personally. So where did all this come from? What made you get interested in the topic of self-confidence?

Sheena Yap Chan (22:57)
Yeah.

I mean, I was dealing with my own confidence issues. That was really it. know, 10 years ago, almost 10 years ago, I was dealing with a lot of confidence issues and I was looking for resources that also catered to Asian women just because, I mean, I'm Asian, so I wanted something that I could relate to, but I couldn't find anything. There wasn't anything out there. And so I realized, you know, I can't be the only one dealing with this. There has to be other women who are dealing with these feelings that I was also dealing with. So...

and representation was really important for me, you know, living in North America, it's such a big melting pot, but sometimes it's not, seen in media. So for me, I wanted to have, you know, more representation for our community. And so I started the podcast, The Tao Self-Confidence I've interviewed over 800 women, mostly Asian women on this topic. And it even helped me see confidence from a different perspective, because I used to think in order to be confident, you had to be wild and boisterous and be out there.

But really, you just had to be yourself. You can still be an introvert and still be confident. And also realizing that I'm not the only one feeling this way. And if they're able to come out of those hardships and thrive, then it's possible for me. Sometimes you just need one person that you can relate to and realize if she can do it, so can I, right? And it goes beyond, you know, culture and gender and all that. Like we're all human in the end. We all bleed the same color.

We all go through similar things and we can all relate to each other's experiences, feelings, ups and downs, twists and turns, all the good, the bad, the ugly. So yeah.

Jen Porter (24:35)
That's incredible that you started the podcast 10 years ago and you've interviewed over 800 women. 800 Asian women. That's incredible. So what was on your mind at that time 10 years ago, and I want to hear more about like pre-2015 in a minute, but what was it that made you have the gumption to start a podcast 10 years ago?

Sheena Yap Chan (24:42)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Porter (25:03)
They're probably weren't as many podcasts around.

Sheena Yap Chan (25:06)
Yeah, definitely. Well, there wasn't a lot of people in our community podcasting. There's probably like one guy at the time who was doing it. And so when I saw him, said, okay, I'm going to start. And I've always wanted to start something to help women, to empower women. And, you know, there was like blogs and YouTube, but that didn't make sense to me because then it's like, you know, not everyone will have the time to look at a blog. Not everyone will have time to watch a video. So when I saw podcasts and

Jen Porter (25:13)
Bye.

Sheena Yap Chan (25:31)
learn more about it. was like, this is it, right? People can just download it, listen to it at any given time, especially for busy moms out there. They're meal planning, they're taking care of their kids, they're dropping them off, they're picking them up, they're meal planning, they're dropping them off to extracurricular activities. They're doing 10 million things at one time, right? And so if they just need a 15 minute boost of the day to build their confidence by listening to an episode, then it helps them out. I've gotten a lot of

feedback telling me that, know, the short episodes just gives them that quick boost for the day. And so, so, so for me, I like using podcasts because of that, because it's convenient for the listener. wanted to make sure it was convenient for the listener to listen, even if they're busy, because they can just listen to it to the back in the background. Right. And even if you're not a hundred percent listening to it, your brain is still listening to it.

Jen Porter (26:04)
Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (26:25)
And what you feed your brain is so important, right? It's like a hard drive, right? If you feed it good stuff, it's going to work properly. But if you feed it with negative things, toxic things, it's like a virus. And what happens when your computer has a virus? All these pop-ups come up, the Trojan horse warning comes up, all those things, and it's just haywire. So it's really important to feed your brain with good things, with positive things, with things that can help you build your confidence and also in your journey.

Jen Porter (26:54)
What have you learned over those 10 years interviewing so many women?

Sheena Yap Chan (26:58)
that there's so many different ways to learn to build confidence. There's no one way. And I think you choose what works for you, right? For so long, especially in school, right? Like you go to school, you're taught one way of doing things. And we think if we are, if we're doing something different, that something's wrong with us. When there's like what, 8 billion people in this world, you expect all 8 billion people to like do the same thing, like the exact same thing. Like that doesn't make sense, right? We all have different personalities, different talents and skills. So we have to pick and choose what works for us. Like

I remember trying to meditate and it was terrible. Like I would try and meditate. would have meditation music on and I would just fall asleep all the time. And I always thought something was wrong with me because I couldn't meditate for the life of it because I would just always fall asleep. And I realized that it just wasn't my way of building confidence or my way of meditation. for me, meditating, my form of meditation is taking a walk outside, jogging, being in nature. That helps me clear my head, dump my thoughts out. just, just.

needing that clarity and just like when my mental health starts to like not be good then it just kind of helps me out so yeah

Jen Porter (28:04)
So much of what you've talked about makes me realize we have to know ourselves really well. And that does take time, doesn't it? If we know ourselves, we know what works for us and we know where we need support and help. It's just so important.

Sheena Yap Chan (28:12)
yeah. ⁓

For sure, and I think it's also important to love your own company, right? ⁓ Like taking yourself out to dinner, watching a movie by yourself. I know it's a little uncomfortable at times, but I think you need that time to yourself where you can just be in your own company, enjoy your own company, I guess have a date with yourself if you wanna call it that. Because that's where you get to know you, the good, bad, the ugly, what you tolerate, what you don't tolerate, what you want in this world.

Jen Porter (28:26)
Mmm.

Sheena Yap Chan (28:50)
And it just helps the healing process as well. Maybe there's something that we're going through we didn't even realize, especially when we're going through lot of unresolved trauma. We have to be aware, why is it I'm resisting or what's stopping me from moving forward? Sometimes it could be a traumatic experience in our life. So carving time for ourselves really important, learning to be able to love our own company is important because

If you don't love your own company, how do you expect others to do the same? Right. It all reflects on you. So yeah.

Jen Porter (29:16)
Definitely.

And how have you evolved over the last 10 years in your work, through the podcast, all the things that you've been doing?

Sheena Yap Chan (29:29)
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things that I realized was like, you know, not everyone knows, not everyone has everything figured out. And that is really okay. Even the people who we put on a pedestal, we think they got it all together. They actually don't, you know, they're also a hot mess. And it's really okay to be a hot mess. Like, I've realized, you know, I can just go out do something.

If I make a mistake, I'll fix it and I just keep moving forward. So in the book, I talk about this, this strategy of ready fire aim, right? Where you just go out there, take action and course correct as you go. Because if we're doing ready aim fire, we're not firing. We're just going to keep aiming because we're waiting for that perfect moment. And you know, you don't get results by waiting for that perfect moment. You get the results when you go out there, make mistakes, fumble, get back up, fumble, get back up, pivot.

fix this, pivot here, pivot there, course correct here, to get to that end result. So I've learned to do things that way and it's helped me out a lot. And even if there's times where I feel like it's very uncertain, I always know that I can figure it out. I know I can figure it out because I've been through so much that this is like, you know, I could figure it out and I don't know what that would look like.

but I know enough that I will be able to do it. And so that takes a lot of unlearning and learning new things because you have to be sure of yourself that you can make it happen. And everyone can make it happen, right? It all depends on your goals, what your vision is, what your purpose is, what you're aligned with.

you know, I've seen women just do such amazing things, you know, start something out of nowhere, create it, create something in their head and put it into life because they were just confident enough to make it happen and make a lot of mistakes along the way. So I think if we're more open about the mistakes we make, the rejection rejections we go through, then people can realize it's just all part of the process. there's days where I'll get like five speaking rejections.

Jen Porter (31:38)
It is.

Sheena Yap Chan (31:42)
And you know, before I'd probably eat a lot of ice cream to eat my feelings. And I was like, okay, I'll move on to the next, right? Like we have to learn that rejection is part of the process and there's nothing wrong with it. It's just part of the process. Nine out of 10 times you'll get a no, right? And I even have to remind myself that because I'm still like, well, what if they say, no, I'm a loser and blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, like stop. Like this part of the process, you'll be fine. So yeah, those are some of the things I've learned.

Jen Porter (31:49)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I think

so many good things in there. When I think about rejection in a way that is, that's not my place. That's not my person. There's not, I don't know why, but there's not alignment there for whatever reason, or at least not now. Maybe it's a not yet. And that helps to make that the, when we do hear a no, the rejection.

make a little bit more sense, know, sort of be, grounded in ourselves, even when that's happening around us. So you mentioned how you have learned how to try new things, you know, put yourself out there. What's an example of something that you've done in the last 10 years that you're really proud of that still took a lot of courage, even though you've come a long way in your own self-confidence?

Sheena Yap Chan (32:55)
yeah, mean, writing two books for Wiley is like something I never thought I would ever do, like ever in my lifetime. You know, like the, just the chances of being an author for a major publisher was like slim, right? Like, and, and I was okay with that. Like I had another book where it was self published, it was a co-author book. I had something out there that already spoke to my community, but when I was offered this opportunity to write it, I almost turned it down because I didn't know if I was that person.

Jen Porter (33:02)
Okay.

Sheena Yap Chan (33:22)
I was going through a lot of imposter syndrome. was telling myself like, you know, how I don't even know what being a leader means. I don't even know if I'm that person to tell people this is how it is to be a leader. You know, when I came to Canada, I couldn't even speak English. I had to take English classes. I never took any writing courses. You know, there's a lot of like book writing retreats and camps. I never took any of those. Right. And so I was really, I almost turned it down. And if it wasn't for the support that I had, who

egged me on and said, need to write this. I wouldn't be here today. So I wrote it, you know, I actually had a very tight deadline with the first book. I had about less than three months to write it. I made it happen. I found a way. And then it came out in May of 2023. ⁓

Jen Porter (33:53)
Yeah.

And that's

let's just share with the listener. that was the Tao of Self-Confidence right? 2023.

Sheena Yap Chan (34:11)
Yes, that's the town. it's made it to

the. Yeah, May 2023 made it to the Wall Street Journal bestselling list. And then I got asked to write a second book. And in all honesty, I didn't think I had a second book in me. I was like, I just wrote the first book about this May, May of this year. So in two years, I wrote two books and I never ever thought I would even write one page. So, you know,

Jen Porter (34:17)
Amazing.

It's so

interesting to me that you almost turned that opportunity down. I can relate to that a ton because I didn't, never saw myself as a leader, even though people were pulling me into leadership roles. I would shy away from them. I would try to find a way out because I didn't want the pressure. didn't think I had it in me. And it's interesting to hear you say that because it two things. Number one, you, you didn't yet see yourself in that way. And so you were going to almost

say no to an opportunity. And number two, this concept of we need our people, we need the people around us to help us see ourselves because your people helped push you and say, no, you have to do this. This isn't you. You can totally do this. And you did.

Sheena Yap Chan (35:20)
Yeah, and then it's helping other people see what's possible too, right? So now there's more people wanting to be writers, wanting to write a book, having their books out. And so that's why representation is so important. That's why visibility is so important because it creates more seats at the table. It breaks barriers.

You know, it shows us what's possible. And then that's how we create those impacts that we really want to see. Cause I don't think anybody wants to wait 133 years for gender parity to be one. Not one woman wants to see that. Right. A lot of them are like, right. But then it's like, what are we going to do about it? Right. I know there's a lot of injustices. Don't get me wrong. I, you know, I still deal with them, right. It's not that I don't deal with them. I do deal with them and it's frustrating.

Jen Porter (35:50)
No.

Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (36:07)
But if we don't do the work, who else is going to do it? Right? So yeah.

Jen Porter (36:12)
And your first book is really around trauma and how trauma holds us back. Can you tell us more about that?

Sheena Yap Chan (36:19)
Yeah, mean, you know, people, I guess a lot of people kept asking me, you know, how do I build confidence? What should I do to build confidence? so instead of telling me, telling them like, this is how you build confidence. had to go a little bit deeper and be like, wait a second, what is really stopping you from moving forward? Right? Is there a time in your life where you were traumatized and that traumatic experience really stops, is stopping you right now. And sometimes we're not even aware that trauma is stopping us, right? We're not aware of the traumas we go through.

through. We don't even realize that our we carry our parents, our grandparents' trauma.

I think for women, also carry a lot of historical trauma just because of how women are treated, you know, back in history. And so all those things have to be made aware and find ways to heal from it. It's not about forgetting them. They're going to be there, right? But at least we have the tools and resources to work through it so that we can move forward so that it doesn't control us anymore. you know, setting that foundation so you can be a true leader, you know, getting to the root cause, why you're stuck, why you're

you're

feeling low self-confidence? Why are you going through certain things in your life and learning to pre-frame them, learning to heal through it? And healing isn't easy, right? It's ugly. It's not pretty. It's going to be very messy, but it's necessary so we can really show up in this world.

Jen Porter (37:42)
Will you tell the story about kindergarten?

Sheena Yap Chan (37:45)
Yeah, so I usually share a story where I failed kindergarten in the Philippines for coloring outside the lines of a photo. And I don't know why I just couldn't color the photo within the lines, right? They even gave me a brand new photo to color and I did the same thing. And so because of that, I failed kindergarten. I had to move to another school and redo kindergarten all over again. And at like five years old, that, like, you know, that shouldn't be happening, right? And because of

I didn't work through that for so long. just felt like everything I did, I was a constant failure. just, yeah, and I didn't realize it was because of that time I failed kindergarten is why I viewed failure that way. And instead of viewing it as failure, it should have been seen as I was just meant to do things in an unconventional setting. You I was always meant to color outside the lines and it's okay to do that, right? This is why sometimes school...

certain schools get too conservative and it's like, no, you have to do it this way when there's just so many different ways of doing things. Yes, math and science and all those subjects are really important, but I also wish they taught self-confidence, being able to go through failures, rejections, things like that because it's so needed.

Jen Porter (38:57)
So my curiosity was around when did you realize that that experience as a kindergartener impacted you so much?

Sheena Yap Chan (39:04)
Yeah, I did a personal, I attended a personal development seminar in Hawaii. And, you one of the exercises they took us through was just like, you know, they were asking us just go really deep and think about a time, like why you're feeling the way you're feeling and, you know, just being able to just sit down and think really like go deeper.

that made me realize that, my goodness, it came from that time. And I didn't realize that. Like it took over 30 years to figure that out. better late than never.

Jen Porter (39:32)
But look what it opened up for you. A whole body of work.

Sheena Yap Chan (39:34)
Yeah. Yeah. It opened up a lot.

Yes.

Jen Porter (39:38)
Wow. So how did some of your other experiences like why were you wrestling with self-confidence 10 years ago? And I'm sure, you know, most of your life, if you're like most people.

Sheena Yap Chan (39:51)
Yeah, I mean, I think also growing up in Asian culture, it's very conservative. You're taught to live one way. You're taught to do certain things. You know, you're taught to go to school, get a job, never rock the boat, especially for Asian women. We're not taught to put ourselves out there. We're not taught to talk about our feelings. We're always taught to be like the perfect wife, perfect daughter, perfect sister, and always just putting up a front. You know, everything looks perfect on the outside and then you're dying on the inside. And so

because of that, just went through a lot of confidence issues, right? And then, you when you've been taught one way of living for so many generations, I mean, you know, there's no one was healing through that because they're just doing the same thing over and over again, not realizing they're going through something and they're not healing and it gets transferred to us. So it's just a lot of unhealed intergenerational trauma, I guess, and just,

a lot of traditions that we do that sometimes doesn't make sense and we never question it. mean, in the book, I also talk about how certain traditions affect women, unfortunately, right? And nobody ever talks about it. Like in Africa, know, genital mutilation is very prevalent, but nobody talks about that. And there's other ones that I mentioned, like, you know, in Southeast Asia, in South Asia, you know, like,

child marriages is still prevalent. If you're a widow, like widowhood is still prevalent there. You're treated as an outsider because you're a widow. All these things really affect us, right? Even in China, if you're 25 and over and not married, you're literally called a leftover. It's terrible. Yeah. all these things, I think, all these things really hindered my confidence, right?

Jen Porter (41:27)
Wow.

Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (41:36)
Um,

especially like in Asian culture, the compare games really strong, you know, it's like, my kid, my kid did this, my kid, that my kid graduated with honors, my kids, a valedictorian, my kid went to the best school. And so this pressure gets so much to the point where, unfortunately, sometimes, you know, someone might do something that they can't turn back. Right. So, um, we have to be, um,

aware of the things that's going through, right? Sometimes, you know, depression can look different for everybody, right? You could be smiling, smiling, thinking you have it all figured out, but really they're not doing well. And sometimes a phone call can go a long way. So I guess for me, being in that culture, I realized there was just a lot of things that I was doing that wasn't helping me. And so I had to learn to break free. had a lot of unlearning to do. I still have a lot of unlearning to do.

But I'm working through it day by day.

Jen Porter (42:35)
When did it first start affecting you? In other words, did you have the awareness that all of this stuff was actually getting in your way?

Sheena Yap Chan (42:43)
I think, I think in my late 20s, probably just kind of slowly thinking about that. And then I'll end in my early 30s when my aunt passed away, I just realized like, life is so short, anything can happen at any given moment. Like I could die the next day and realize I haven't done anything in my life that I really wanted to do. so I realized that, you know, I have to start doing things for myself, you know, live life on my terms, or else I'll just be miserable.

I'll be miserable and I'll regret so many things. I did not wanna leave this earth regretting anything. I could literally say if I die tomorrow, I've done everything I could have ever wanted and more. I can honestly say that. I could be okay because I've achieved everything I've ever wanted. It's good, sometimes it's bad. ⁓

Jen Porter (43:27)
So

the death of your aunt was really a wake up call for you.

Sheena Yap Chan (43:32)
Yeah, I mean, because she wasn't, she wasn't, she was still, she didn't even reach 60, you know, but she was able to do a lot of things in her 50s that most 20 and 30 year olds would do. And, you know, lot of our relatives were like, don't do that. You're too old. You shouldn't be doing that. But it didn't stop her from doing the things that she wanted. She still did it. And yes, it did cost her life. but you know, she was able to do that. Right. And, and it was, it was a

I mean, we're still, even till this day, it's still shocking, but it helped me realize like I need to do something or else I'm just gonna be miserable. know, playing safe doesn't help us, know, being, yeah.

Jen Porter (44:13)
That's a really, that's a very challenging place to be when there's this really shocking thing that happens. You your loved one is no longer here and it causes this thing to wake up inside of you that is really about...

dissatisfaction, it's about a discontentment, it's about there's something more. It's like there's this fire inside of us when that happens, but we don't always know what to do with it, right? So at that time, you're thinking, I want my life to matter, but what were you thinking at that point? Did you have an idea, a concept already of what that meant?

Sheena Yap Chan (44:49)
No,

no, just knew I had to change. I guess it was a catalyst for starting to think differently. So it didn't happen overnight. It took a bit because of course I was still scared. I wanted to be comfortable. We were taught.

When we move to North America, know, success is getting a nine to five job and working until you retire. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But if you're sitting in your cubicle thinking like, this is not what you're meant to do, then you have to do something different. Right. And I understand everyone has a different situation. I would never, you know, everyone's different stories, different lived experiences. So everyone has a different situation that they're in. Right. For some people having a job could mean life or death.

Like I remember I was reading a story about a woman from Afghanistan who has a job and she has to take a private car just to go to work.

Like she can't even take public transportation because if people found out she went, she took public transportation to work at a job, like that could be a life or death situation because under Taliban rule, like they're not allowed to do that. Right. So what we take for granted here, like for people, it's a life or death situation. And so for them, that's they're, they're literally risking their lives to make a living, which is so unfair. And the fact that this is happening, this is recent, this is 2025.

Jen Porter (46:03)
Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (46:07)
It's not like in the 90s, this is 2025, I read that story. And I'm like thinking, I can't believe that we're still going through this until now. So we do have the power and the decision to make things happen. It all depends, I guess, on...

Jen Porter (46:17)
Yeah.

I think, go ahead.

Sheena Yap Chan (46:30)
how badly you want it and also having that support as well. If you don't have that support, it's gonna be really hard, right? I know because my parents didn't understand what I was doing. They were just like, why don't you go get a job? And I didn't wanna do that. And it took a while for like my family to really understand why this was necessary and that have that support. So yeah.

Jen Porter (46:50)
So that moment in time, so many of the listeners are those individuals that have that fire in the belly. They know that there's more and they want to move toward it, but they're not necessarily sure how to do that. what was the process? What did that look like for you when you started to move toward, want my life to matter. I want to make a difference in this world.

Sheena Yap Chan (47:11)
Well, had to work on my mindset. I think that was the most important part, reading self-help books, surrounding myself with the right people that went out there and forged their own path, right? Like, you need to have tough skin, unfortunately, right? Like, this isn't easy. Like, yes, you get to be an entrepreneur, you get to do what you want, you get to work your own hours.

but you could be working 24 hours in a day. You could have no sleep. There'll be times that you'll work harder than a job and you end up with $5. And that's just real life, right? But are you willing to have delayed gratification, right? Especially in a world where everything's measured in instant gratification.

Jen Porter (47:36)
Yeah

Yeah. So how did you figure it out? So you did some self-help stuff, you surrounded yourself with other people who had made their mark. How did you discover your purpose?

Sheena Yap Chan (48:08)
I mean, the podcast kind of helped me realize that this was important. just doing the, my own, like my own work on myself, you know, just, healing, going through the things and figuring out what's stopping me. That really helped out a lot. And also learning to pre frame things.

Jen Porter (48:15)
Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (48:23)
differently, right? Like, you know, I used to be afraid of uncertainty, you know, we've been programmed that uncertainty is bad, you know, we need to have something that's stable and predictable. But I mean, there's no such thing in this world now, right? Like, especially with the rise of AI, like things are going to change really quick. And so I had to learn to love uncertainty, because there's so many things that could happen that could be so amazing when you embrace uncertainty versus fearing it.

Jen Porter (48:37)
Mm-hmm.

Sheena Yap Chan (48:51)
Preframing failure, pre-framing rejection. It's all part of it. Preframing fear, right? Like we all are scared of something. We're scared to do it. We're so afraid to take the first step. But if we pre-frame it in a different way where it's like, this is a necessity to grow to become better. And you know, it's not as bad as we think, right? Like it may look bad before we take that step, but when we do, it's not that bad. And you're like, okay, I've lived through it. I didn't die. I'm good. I'm still standing.

Jen Porter (49:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

There's a couple of things that are popping out as I hear you talk. One is that we're not made to do this alone. We need one another on our journey to figure things out and to break things down into small pieces so that the big things that feel really scary, breaking those down until we actually, wow, we did that thing that we used to be so scared of. The other thing that occurs to me, the majority of women that I talk to,

will say, I want to help people, right? Women are often wired for whatever reason to be helpers. And what I'm realizing is that's sort of how you found your purpose. You started the podcast because you wanted to help others. And in doing so, you figured out what your passion and purpose is, and you helped others do the same.

Sheena Yap Chan (49:50)
Yes.

Yeah.

Jen Porter (50:10)
It's like once you stepped out, you weren't sure where it was gonna go, right? You didn't know the path forward. You just started it. But you started it because you wanted to help others. But it actually in turn helped you get clarity and become who you are today.

Sheena Yap Chan (50:16)
No idea. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it's been quite a journey. That's for sure.

Jen Porter (50:30)
What's next for you, Sheena?

Sheena Yap Chan (50:31)
I think for me, what's next is really, you know, pushing forward, you know, helping women build more, be okay with visibility. I, I realize that a lot of women are afraid of being visible. I get that.

I didn't want to be visible either. To be honest, if it were up to me, I'd probably just like hide from the world, watch Netflix all day and eat junk food. But I realized that's not what my life plan is right now. Right? I understand the power of visibility and how it can help change, you know, a woman's trajectory or, or her business or her career. And it's important for women to be visible because we need more women to be visible to change.

Jen Porter (50:51)
Hahaha!

Yeah.

Sheena Yap Chan (51:11)
the way we're seen in this world, right? To make sure we don't wait till 2158 to have gender parity, to make sure that a woman in Afghanistan can just go to a job and not feel like they're gonna have a life or death situation. Like this is why for me visibility is so important, creating visibility, being confident to put yourself out there. And I'm out there, right? I can't tell you to be visible if I'm not visible. ⁓

Jen Porter (51:34)
Yeah.

It's so true.

It's so true. And people can find you it. I'm going to tell people how to find you out there. So sheenayapchan.com and buy her books. So her newest book is Bridging the Confidence Gap. Her first book is The Tao of Self-Confidence and that's her podcast name too, The Tao of Self-Confidence. So check her out.

Sheena Yap Chan (51:40)
because then I'll be a hypocrite.

Yes. ⁓

Jen Porter (52:04)
I love what you said, Sheena, when we first spoke, you said a woman with purpose and action is the one that changes the world

Sheena Yap Chan (52:11)
Yeah, it's so true, right? Like even the tagline of my latest book is bridging the confidence gap, how empowered women change the world, right? When you're empowered, you're gonna go out there and do it because you're doing it for the greater good. And as women, we're natural born caretakers. That's probably why we wanna help everybody because it's just in us. Whether you have children or not, we're natural born caretakers, right? So, and when women have more money in the world, when we have more access to things, you know, we're more willing

Jen Porter (52:18)
except for you.

Sheena Yap Chan (52:38)
to

give back. you look at Jeff Bezos, yeah like you look at Jeff Bezos' ex-wife like she's given out like what I think 15 or 20 billion out of her fortune already or something something crazy like that right. She donates a lot of money to various charities to help make the world a better place. So and there's been studies about that where women are just when they have

Jen Porter (52:41)
It transforms communities.

and

Sheena Yap Chan (53:02)
the means and funds they are willing to help more people out there. So it becomes a win-win situation for everybody.

Jen Porter (53:08)
Yeah, and I think we're talking about these really big issues, like we wanna change the world, but if we're each doing our own part in a way that we're wired and called and created for, if we're finding our little space in this world to do our part, if everybody did that, imagine the impact.

Sheena Yap Chan (53:17)
or art. Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, it's it takes just one one person right to do one thing. That's how we create the big impact.

Jen Porter (53:34)
Yep.

Sheena, thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for all the work that you're doing. I love it. So everybody check Sheena out, SheenaYapChan.com. You can find her books there and can they access your podcast through your website as well?

Sheena Yap Chan (53:50)
They can check out the podcast on Spotify and Apple podcasts if they check out the talent confidence it they can it's there you can search it you can subscribe download all the episodes I do have a lot of episodes so you can binge listen Then the book they are available on Amazon Barnes and Nobles and other book retailers Worldwide and also on my website. I do have a free quiz where you can figure out your self-confidence personality. So yeah

Jen Porter (53:54)
Okay.

You do.

I love that. So you have a quiz on the website. Just want to emphasize this where people can find out what is it?

Sheena Yap Chan (54:22)
their self-confidence personality.

Jen Porter (54:24)
their self-confidence personality. I love that. Okay, so go to sheenayapchan.com to find that quiz. And thank you for being here. Thank you for the work that you're doing. Such a pleasure to get to know you and talk to you. So thanks for sharing. And in the meantime, the lioness in me sees the lioness in you.