Episode 13: A conversation with Mayor Colin Basran – Part 1

Show Notes

We asked you “If you could ask Mayor Basran anything you've ever wanted to know, what would you ask?” The response was incredible, with more than 140 people querying the Mayor on multiple issues...from housing affordability and homelessness to public safety and highrises. Join Mayor Basran as he talks to host Bob Evans about everything that is Kelowna and his hopes for the city, as well as his thoughts on golf courses, traffic, Uber, and even the Mayor of Kamloops. 

What is Kelowna Talks?

Welcome to Kelowna Talks, a podcast presented by the City of Kelowna that explores the "why" behind the decisions that shape your city. Tune in for weekly episodes with host, Bob Evans, Partnerships Office Director with the City of Kelowna, as he welcomes guest subject matter experts to explain the processes and decisions that influence the lives of the citizens.

Kelowna Talks - EP13

Colin 00:01
I think that that’s good practice is to keep an open mind. I think we build a better community there, and there’s just no way to have a policy or plan, that’s going to match every certain application.

Zoe 00:12
Welcome to Kelowna Talks where we explore the why behind the decisions that shape your city. Together, we open the curtain and dig deep into current issues, plans and policies that come out of City Hall. Thanks for joining us as we talk about Kelowna, and the topics that matter to you.

Bob 00:36
Hi, everyone, I'm Bob Evans, Partnership Director at the City of Kelowna, and host of our Kelowna Talks podcast. I acknowledge that our community is located on the traditional ancestral unceded territory of the Syilx, Okanagan people. A week or so ago, we asked the public, if you could ask Mayor Basran anything you've ever wanted to know, what would you ask. The response? Well, it was nothing short of amazing and a little overwhelming for us. We had nearly 150 Questions or comments covering a wide range of issues, affordable housing, crime, infrastructure, traffic, homelessness, high rises and the environment, to name a few. There were also questions around golf course development, timing around a new theatre, sidewalks, public art, parking, traffic congestion, you get the idea. And because we have a lot of ground to cover, we decided to split this into two podcast two episodes. So I'm excited to welcome Mayor Colin Basran onto the podcast. I've been looking forward to this for a while. So we'd like to start off by finding out a little bit about you tell us when you're not being in the mayor, how do you like to relax what you do for your leisure activities?

Colin 01:46
Yeah, well, there's a lot I don't know that I'd call it leisure activities. However, I have two children. Nya, who is eleven. And Keenan who's nine, who are incredibly active. So when I am not at work and not being the mayor, my first priority is as father. And so running them around to their activities. Right now. It's, it's soccer and basketball. And those two keep me so busy. And I love spending any time that I can with the two of them. And then just for myself, fitness has become really important in a job like this, certainly making sure that you're looking after yourself. So as you know, I grew up playing team sports, hockey being one of them. But when you're, you know, you have a busy job and you're busy being a father, you can't just be out every night playing team sports. So I've really taken it upon myself to figure out how to stay healthy and active. And that includes running and working out five times a week. And of course, I think like a lot of people in the Okanagan, I also, when time permits, enjoy the great wine that we have here, and supporting our local restaurants, we're pretty blessed with, you know, some amazing talent and, you know, just really enjoying what life has to offer here in the Okanagan. And that's why we want to live here. And that's why so many other people want to live here. And I know we're going to touch on that later. But that's kind of life in a nutshell. I also enjoy the occasional you know, Netflix and chill night. Got a couple of series on the go right now right now, the latest Obi Wan Star Wars Star Wars series that I'm enjoying with the kids. And yeah, so that's kind of life in in a nutshell. For me.

Bob 03:23
It sounds like there's not a lot of downtime in your spare time. And I caught myself when I when I said when you're not being mayor. I guess that's another aspect that you don't turn that off. I mean, I'm sure you know, even when you're attending any of your your kids events, it's just there's a lot of pressure and stress being the mayor and you always have to be available and on. So that's that's going to take a little bit of a toll as well.

Colin 03:46
Yeah, that's certainly a part of being the mayor of a community. But I think anyone who knows me, well knows that I haven't shied away though, from just being myself. You know, and that means that, you know, I love live music, for example. And so going out and enjoying a concert and rocking out and people will come over and high fiving and say, oh my gosh, it's so cool to see the mayor here. Well, yeah, because the mayor is a human being just like you who loves live music and, you know, having the occasional beverage and having a good time. And so, you know, I haven't necessarily shied away from that. And I know that some people might be a little put off by that. But at the end of the day, I have no regrets. I'm living my life. I'm trying to, you know, do the best I can to be a great leader in the community, but also be a great role model for my kids and trying to live my best life at the same time. And so that, like you say is never easy, but I've become accustomed or more comfortable and leaving the house in my sweatpants because sometimes that's just the way it goes.

Bob 04:45
And the paparazzi aren't chasing around taking those photographs of you in the sweatpants.

Colin 04:48
I guess we'll find out I guess so.

Bob 04:51
Okay, we're gonna jump right in here. As I mentioned in the intro, there are a few noticeable themes that people want to hear from you about. Let's start with growth. I'm sure as we're all aware, Kelowna is one of the fastest growing cities in Canada, the downtown is changing with more high rises, my understanding is we have over 20, either completed or in construction or in application. And we're seeing our traditional neighbourhoods change. So what do you think about this change and the rapid pace of the change over such a short period of time during, you know, both through your, your tenure at City Hall?

Colin 05:26
Yeah, it's been significant change. And I mean, even the city we have now as compared to even four years ago, at the start of this term. This is a different city. And this is a different city than the one that I grew up in and saw all of my friends want to leave, because they felt like this wasn't a progressive place, that this wasn't a city that was going to be able to offer them the job opportunities, and the lifestyle that they were looking for. But a lot of that has now changed for the better. And now some of those friends are saying, How do I find my way back? I want to come back or they are back. So it's really cool. But certainly, yeah, this city has changed tremendously. And I think when we talk about growth, I, you know, I want to sort of start at the high level, and then work our way down. And maybe we'll talk about some specific projects, potentially. But we have a new official community plan that we just recently adopted, which spells out how and where this city is going to grow over the next 20 years. And I'm really proud of that we, we plan to welcome 40 to 50,000 new residents in that time period. And I would say that's probably a conservative estimate, given everything that we're seeing right now. So I think the big message that I want people to know is that there are the appropriate plans in place to accommodate that growth. And I think that's one of the major concerns is, you know, we are welcoming, so many people here how we plan accordingly. So it starts with our official community plan, and then it sort of works our way in from there. So when we approved our official Community Plan, at the same time, we had staff working on a Transportation Master Plan, which has now been updated, because we know that as we grow, we know that we're going to have to change how we get around. And we're going to have to make improvements because as you said, when we got all this feedback, traffic was a major concern. And so we have a transportation master plan, we also have housing plans, and we know that housing is is a challenge. And we're gonna, you know, perhaps talk about that a little bit later. But I think what I want to recognize as well is that this official Community Plan is a bit of a departure from how not only Kelowna, but most cities in North America have been growing. And what I mean by that is that most North American cities just continue to spread and use more land and what we have traditionally called suburban sprawl. And we recognize here in the City of Kelowna, that single family homes are still desirable, and we want those and so we accommodate for that want and need. But what we've also said, though, is there's got to be a limit to that, because as we continue to sprawl, it means that it's costly for a couple of different reasons. It's costly to the environment as we continue to work our way into the natural areas of our, our city and surrounding our community. But we also know, so it's costly as well, from a infrastructure standpoint, because we have to service those areas we have to so we will inherit the infrastructure from developers, we have to police those areas, we have to protect them with fire protection, we have to build parks in those neighbourhoods. So there's a number of things that make as we sprawl as a community, it more costly to all of us. So I like that this official Community Plan has struck a balance between yes, we know we need more single family homes, but we need to build community differently. And that's why you're seeing an influx of development applications that include towers, but also in residential neighbourhoods, where we're calling infill, because we know that we need to better utilize the services and the infrastructure that we have already in place before we go and spend millions of dollars creating new infrastructure. And so I think that this OCP is a good balance between the wants and needs of the community, but also being respectful of cost, but also protecting the environment. And I know that perhaps we're going to talk about that.

Bob 09:31
Couple questions. And I certainly think the financial realities is worth resting on for a moment because it's, a lot of times people don't see the behind the scenes aspects of City Planning and vision casting, and, you know, how staff and council have to balance out all these, you know, equal needs, let's say and how, how the delivery is, you know, there is costly, so there's some there's some issues there. I have a question in there. One thing I think that I would like you to address is, s lot of times City Council gets criticized by going off of plan. And, you know, I I'd like to hear what you have to say about the fact that these plans are living breathing documents. And sometimes they're a guide, and they need to be interpreted. And that's part of your job.

Colin 10:17
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, we do get occasional concerns about departures from the OCP when a development application comes forward. But we have to remember that trends change, best practices change. And not every piece of property in our community is the same. And so I'm constantly reminding my council colleagues, that while we may have plans or bylaws or various policies in place, you can't just put a box or one of those over every single scenario, and it's going to work. So that means sometimes we have to amend and be adjustable, and incorporate best practice or take a look at individual properties or applications on a case by case basis. And so I can appreciate that. There will be those who say, you know, why aren't you following the official Community Plan? Why would you let this developer ask for an amendment? Well, we would approve an amendment because we think that what's being proposed is better than had we adhered to the rigidity of those bylaws or policies. And so I think that that's good practice is to keep an open mind, and to want what the best solution is for that individual scenario. But I understand and appreciate concerns, but I think that we build a better community there. And there's just no way to have a policy or a plan that's going to match every certain applications.

Bob 11:48
Yeah, you know, as planners, I'm a planner, we'd like to say we're smart, we're not that smart. You know, you can never anticipate every nuance and every these plans have to be live. Okay. So do you think we're keeping up in terms of infrastructure? So there was a lot of questions around roads, water schools, hospitals, you know, what do you think? How do we, you as the leadership of the City address the keeping up with infrastructure, let's say,

Colin 12:14
Sure. So I would say from a city perspective, we're doing a pretty good job, keeping in mind that some of the infrastructure that our residents are demanding or wanting to see improved, the City of Kelowna doesn't control. So for example, let's use schools, we work collaboratively with the school district on where we would like to focus growth and development. And we plan for schools within those neighbourhoods. However, and I feel for them, the School District doesn't actually get to decide when those new schools get funded. Their funding comes directly from the Ministry of Education provincially. And it'll be the provincial government who decides which schools get funded and when. So, from that aspect, it's difficult to keep up with our infrastructure needs, when the city doesn't directly control that infrastructure. And I don't think it would be appropriate for us to say, we're going to stop growth until we have those the School District or sorry, the Ministry of Education on side or whatever, because then, you know, growth will fall behind. And we know we need new people in our community, to help build the city that we're wanting to build into, you know, employ the people we need to employ and various other things. So it's a balance. So generally do I think we're keeping up? I do, but are, do we have an infrastructure deficit? We absolutely do. It is real. And so one of the things that I and other mayors across the province are calling for is stable and secure funding, for example, from the provincial and federal governments so that we can start better planning in terms of our capital plan each year, to help develop some of the really major infrastructure projects, which things like when we're going to touch on a new rec centre, a new transit facility, and various other things. Because right now, it's a great program, where we go cap and head. And then I will also say this is that we live in different times. And I talked earlier about how best practices change, we now have something called an asset management strategy, because we know as we approved facilities they age, and back in the day, we didn't really think about how are we going to maintain and replace these.

Bob 14:47
We're faced with huge bill.

Colin 14:49
Absolutely. And so while I appreciate councils of the past, being fiscally conservative, as a result of that conservative as them, sometimes projects that our city needed, we're put off. And eventually, when you put off too many of those projects, you get a massive infrastructure deficit. And that's what our city is now faced with. And, and I have been very clear in my time as mayor, that I am not afraid to tackle this infrastructure deficit and to spend funds on the right projects for our community. But we're going to make sure it's done in a fiscally responsible way. But we can't keep putting off some of these key infrastructure projects for our city, because it just puts us further behind and placing the burden on my kids and you know, the kids to follow. And in my opinion, that's not good governance. So I will continue to, you know, fight for and approve key infrastructure projects that our city desperately needs for us to keep up. But it's challenging, particularly in light of inflationary, you know, issues, we're seeing now and, and other costs, you know, things that are making things more costly.

Bob 16:00
Sure. And I think another aspect that a lot of listeners may not know, is advocacy. And obviously, I know a little bit about that from one of my roles that at City Hall. But can you let the listeners know what that looks like, from your perspective? And all the back room, telephone calls and meetings that are that are numerous and endless, probably from your perspective, and how you advocate for us as citizens in Kelowna?

Colin 16:26
Sure. So I would say probably one of the best things I have ever been a part of, in my time as mayor is this newly formed BC Urban Mayors' Caucus. So this is mayors from 13 of the largest cities in British Columbia, who have come together and said, we all share these issues and common social issues, transport, transportation, management, housing, as well as these fiscal challenges that I just talked about. So I co-chair that group with the Mayor of Victoria. And I have to say that as a result of us banding together, it's hard for the provincial and federal governments to ignore the mayors' group that represents over half of the provinces population. So that's just one key advocacy piece that I and council have been doing to sort of champion the top issues that our residents have. And so we're making significant headway on the social issues to get our homeless housed, and supported for their mental health and addiction issues. And we also recently made huge strides pushing the province to dig into this issue of prolific and repeat offenders who are continually breaking into businesses and homes and others. So there has been significant advocacy work. And so on top of that, we as a municipality on our own, also advocate for City of Kelowna specific issues, like the new rec facility, or like a new future transit facility. So there's a lot of advocacy work, that great advocacy work that's taking place at the city of Cologne on behalf of our residents, to to get some of these key issues dealt with particularly where the city of Kelowna doesn't have full control.

Bob 18:19
I gotta be careful, about going off script, because that was a, you know, an impassioned answer. So thank you for that. And I think it's worth noting for sure. So, let's get back to the topic at hand right now, which is growth. So another couple of questions that came in, quite a few questions, were around the environment and green space and parks and so on. And how are we doing on on the the parks and green space aspect and in our downtown core, and even how it relates to water consumption, Lake health and so on? What are you doing as mayor and council to address those issues?

Colin 18:52
Yeah, so I sort of touched on a part of that answer. In that, again, it's limiting sprawl and utilizing the services that we have already in terms of protecting the environment. So a couple of things that we're doing environmentally and on the park side. One is, so City Council created something called a parks development, DCC or development costs charge. So what that means is when a developer builds a project, they pay development cost charges on various items. One of them was parks acquisition. So it was a way for the city to acquire park land as attributable, attributable to new growth so that as we get new residents to our community, we need to provide them with parks and open space. So we've been acquiring a lot of parkland. However, what we have had an inability to do is to develop that parkland. And so something we did which will be at the help of developers and residents purchasing new homes is that there is now a new development cost charged for park development, which will now be able to help us build valuable parkland that's much needed, particularly coming out of a pandemic where we found out just how truly valuable our parks and open space really is. So through this new development, park development DCC, you're going to start to see new parks be created. You know, just one in particular that I have in mind is the one under construction in South Pandosy, which is going to be a beautiful new waterfront park, which is going to service a town centre, South Pandosy, and so this is going to be a spectacular amenity. So you're going to start to see more of those types of parks be created that will help accommodate new growth and and for new residents and old to be able to enjoy.

Bob 20:56
Okay, perfect. Now, I'd love to hear that spending more money on parks is a great thing, I think for everybody. I'm going to keep going with with some of the questions. And there were a lot of questions about traffic. We touched on that early on, and the growth of the rapid growth we're having in the city. And there were certainly several questions around the biggest parking lot we have in Kelowna, which is Highway 97. So recognizing that, you know, it's a provincial responsibility on municipal responsibility, but how can we improve arterial circulation just addressing traffic flow in our city?

Colin 21:31
Sure. So I would say that there are again, there are great plans in place to take this into consideration. So not only do we have a new transportation master plan just for our community, but we also have a regional transportation plan, because I think we need to be looking at transportation.And so there are two really great plans. And I would encourage everyone to, if they are concerned or want to know what is happening is to look at those plans, because they are fantastic. So from a local level it, it means a few different things. It means creating a balanced transportation network. And what that means is continued investment in things like transit. And so we are currently right now working with BC Transit and the provincial government on a new transit operations facility out near UBCO, which I think the agricultural land commission for giving us the approval to go ahead with that project. So now we can get into getting the funding and move forward with that project. But so that's important. So we alternate modes of transportation, continued investment in our active transportation corridors to connect our town centres, because ideally, my vision for the city is to have our five urban centres downtown South Pandosy, Capri Landmark, Midtown and Rutland, connected with good transit and active transportation corridors to give people truly an alternative way to get around. However, this new transit operations center also leads us into a conversation about roads. And why that is, is because we still need key road connections in our community, one of them being the north end connector or the Highway 33, extension, whatever you want to call it. So that will help take some of the pressure off Harvey Ave. But why that hasn't been able to be advanced, is because the property that will be utilized runs right in front of our current transit operations facility, which means there's no room to build a road until such time as we can get our buses moved into a new transit operations facility. But all of this is spelled out in our Transportation Master Plan, which again, will help us figure out or create better ways to get around. Now that being said, there is something that has always stuck with me called induced demand. And the law or the the rationale or what induced demand means is because I know there'll be some residents in our community who will say we need more roads show more roads, that is the answer to getting rid of congestion. But the law of induced demand says that the more roads we build, the more encouraged people will be to drive. It's just a never ending cycle of building roads, they get full, and it's just the status quo. So we need to don't get me wrong, there are still key road connections that need to be made. I talked about one of them. But we need to also invest in other modes of transportation, because we can build roads forever, and we will just never be able to get out of that cycle.

Bob 24:35
Well, to that I'm going to say I hope my friend Gord is listening because we've had many conversations around, you know, in terms of the value of public transit and transportation corridors, versus just the you know, the never ending cycle of building roads. And that brings me to another question we had, which was pretty interesting one and the question was, are there any plans to build and develop a surface level rapid transit system similar to the one in Calgary.

Colin 25:02
Boy, so in a perfect world, I would say yes, that would be amazing. My vision has been and always will be some sort of transportation that connects the entire Okanagan from Penticton, through Kelowna, to Vernon. However, it's going to need to start incrementally. So that starts with transit and connecting the three cities via transit, and then going from there. However, one thing that I'm really excited about that the city is already working on, is a research project with UBC Okanagan, on how we may better connect the north campus with the soon to be constructed downtown campus of UBCO. And we're looking at a research project that would utilize some sort of mass transportation, if you will, whether it be autonomous vehicles, or a rail system per se, along the rail trail, because one of the reasons why the City of Kelowna participated in the rail trail initiative was not only to create this amazing tourist amenity for cycling and walking, but the right of way is wide enough for transportation. And we have always been clear that we would like to utilize a portion of the rail trail for some type of transportation.

Bob 26:22
So just to be clear, to accommodate both. So we'd still have the rail trail as it sits today, but be able to have some form of transit?

Colin 26:29
So we're working on a research project right now with UBCO, on how we are going to connect their two campuses, and the airport. So I am really excited about that. So So to answer the question, yes, it is a long term goal to connect the valley. But we're going to need the start here locally, to prove things out and maybe to choose a technology that could be utilized in the long term. But really excited about the fact that we have all of the really incredibly smart people at UBCO, and at City Hall working together on something really, that could be a lasting legacy.

Bob 27:04
And again, that's that chicken and egg thing of getting people out of their cars and having less congestion on our road system and getting them in some form of transit that works and is regular and convenient. And all the things we need in transit. That's exciting. Okay, so we've talked about growth and keeping pace with infrastructure, we've also received questions around facilities. So developing the Parkinson Rec Center is going to be a monumental legacy project that is happening right now, what does that process look like? And what can you tell our listeners about that?

Colin 27:31
Very excited about this process, as somebody born and raised here. You know, I know all too well, just how badly that facility needs to be replaced. And so looking forward to being a part of that. So what has happened thus far is we've sort of... Well, we have identified where we'd like to build that facility to take advantage of the incredible landscape of that area. And as well as to better utilize the already existing facilities like the Apple Bowl. So we've chosen the location, which is more in the center of the site, which has a number of exciting aspects to it. And so now, it's sort of in the hands of staff to engage with our user groups. And we've come up with the sort of functional plan. But now it's time to really get down to what is this facility going to look like, and why that's important right now is just given the inflationary issues that are taking place in the world, we want to be sure, when we go out for costing, that we have a really good idea of, you know, what this will cost our residents. So we're in the process right now of designing, while engaging with user groups, and then ultimately designing what the project will look like. And that will come back to the council. And then we'll, we'll take things from there, I would say that, before the term is out, I would say we'll have a pretty good idea what the facility will look like. And then after that, it will be a new council, we'll look into, you know, the funding options, as well as you know, getting to to break ground on what is going to be a probably the largest infrastructure, you know, project in our city's history, but very much needed.

Bob 29:21
And you came back from your tour of the Lower Mainland with council, and seemed pretty excited. So you saw a lot of really good examples of what other municipalities are doing. And I don't know did that tell you that we're we are lagging behind and just the the beauty and and the, the, you know, the future vision of what this facility can mean to residents.

Colin 29:41
So, you know, hindsight is certainly certainly great. So it was nice to be able to go and look at, you know, newer facilities that had been built in the Lower Mainland and to find out what they liked and what they didn't and to be able to incorporate those into our facility. But this is a building that needs to last, you know, several decades. So one thing I want to be mindful of too is that, well, I know we need to be fiscally responsible when we build it. This is not a project that I think we want to be short sighted on and build it just for today, we need to make sure that this project has room for growth, so that it can accommodate all the things we've been talking about. But one of the things I do recognize after traveling through the Lower Mainland, is we are a little bit lagging behind when it comes to recreation facilities, we are a very active community, and ask anyone involved in you know, minor hockey or figure skating or, you know, any court sports, we need infrastructure to keep our residents young and old, healthy, inactive. And that's again, comes back to what I stated earlier is that I do not want to shy away from building a community and building infrastructure that our residents are asking for, but we need to do it in a fiscally responsible way. And, and in, you know, in phases or stages. But we can no longer say, no, we're not going to do these projects and kick them down the road because it just only makes it that much more costly down the road.

Bob 31:15
Well, and I'll use that as a segue to a few questions around a new performing arts center. So there were certainly lots of chat about other facilities. But this is something that I think has come to the forefront recently. And again, you know, we've got great facilities now, but it seems like we're outgrowing them. So where are we as a community looking at that, you know, the future in terms of Performing Arts?

Colin 31:37
Yeah. So first of all, I want to say we have such an incredible arts and culture community here in Kelowna. And we've created or updated the cultural plan, as well as the cultural facilities master plan. And so, undeniably, we do need a new performing arts center. However, we've been talking about other needs in our community. And so it's a matter of trying to find where a new performing arts center falls in line with the other priorities that our community has said we need. So I am I have always said, I support a new performing arts center. But keeping in mind that the council has a lot of capital infrastructure projects we are trying to balance right now. And we've talked about a couple of them the transit facility and the new Kelowna community campus or rec facility. So would I like to see it advanced? Because right now it is toward the end of our 10 year capital plan, that a performing arts center is planned? Yes. Would I like to see that advanced? Absolutely. There is a great community group in our city, who is looking at ways to advance that, including ways that perhaps there may be some community fundraising to help advance the initiative. So I am open to those. I applaud the community group that is really trying to advance this. But in the meantime, we are going to have to utilize our current facility and I know that we've just spent some money to do some really good office lifts. Yeah, it looks great. And and in the time being, I think that Kelowna Community Theatre is serving us well. I'm happy with the the refresh we've done on it. But yes, it is time for replacement, and I would like to see it advanced.

Bob 33:36
Okay, good. Thank you, I'm going to move on. We had questions about golf courses and the future of golf courses in our city. And there's been some chatter about three particular golf courses that are will be closing in the next few years. And obviously golf is a is a very popular pastime in Kelowna. But these are large pieces of property with a shrinking land base. Should we be looking at them as future development sites? And what's your position around around these golf courses? I think people just want to know.

Colin 34:02
Sure. So my position is this and maybe this is a bit too political, but I am in favor of building a thriving and progressive community. And so let's just use the Kelowna Springs as an example. Kelowna Springs is slated for future industrial development. We know that we have a need for industrial land in our city. So let's just think for a moment what is the purpose of industrial and industrial land creates employment, it creates jobs. And we have a community right now where we've heard loud and clear and we're going to talk about this either now or in a future podcast, where affordability is an issue. So while I appreciate people's want to be able to play the sport that they love, council has to weigh not only that, but much broader wants and needs of our community. Do and so industrial land has a positive benefit for our residents and for our community as a whole. And, and so those are the things we have to wait. So, you know, it's tough, and I understand the need for recreation. But I also know that we have a lot of golf courses in our community that serve us well. So are we going to be able to protect or preserve all of them? No, and we have to remember to these golf courses are owned by private landowners, these are not city owned facilities, and any private landowner has the ability to sell their land. And anybody who buys that land has the right to apply to use it in a different way if they so choose. And that will be the will of council to ultimately approve or not those wishes. So I would say it's not as simple as just saying, hey, let's protect a golf course, so that people can, you know, and don't be wrong, I'm a golfer. So I want to be clear about that. But there are a lot of needs in our community and industrial and is in high demand and it creates jobs and and helps people be employed. So it's not as cut and dry as maybe some would like to like to think.

Bob 36:21
Okay, we're coming to the close of our time today for podcast number one, and I can't end without asking a few of the more unusual questions. So kind of an rapid fire here. When can we get Uber in Kelowna?

Colin 36:34
I hope by the end of this summer. The transportation minister has said they will look at it but it's frustrating. We don't have it. Kelowna has been pounding the table for it. It makes zero sense why the province has not allowed Uber to be included.

Bob 36:50
Okay. Are there any plans for a bigger Christmas tree downtown?

Colin 36:55
So this was something posed to me at the downtown light up and it has given me pause for thought. It's perhaps something we will work with DKA on because I do agree the Christmas tree we have currently for downtown, given the skating rink and everything else is a little bit underwhelming. So let's say it's a possibility.

Bob 37:15
Okay, and this is the last one that you don't really have to answer but it just couldn't go. We couldn't ignore it. It was actually from somebody out of town and you'll know who in a second... Name three things you like about the Mayor of Kamloops.

Colin 37:27
I had a feeling he'd submit a question. Ken Christian, the Mayor of Kamloops has been absolutely awesome to work with, just an absolute gentleman, kind hearted, and I wish he was running again. But he's decided to step aside after this term is over.

Bob 37:44
Okay. Well, thank you, Mayor Basran. And I appreciate you joining us. And as I mentioned the top of the podcast, we had an amazing response and with close to 150 questions. So we're going to have you back next week. And we're going to talk about social issues and affordability. So thanks for being with us.

Colin 38:00
No problem. Thank you.

Zoe 38:04
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