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Marc welcomes Mario Therrien of TRUE Hockey as the first guest on the Between the Shifts podcast to discuss Mario’s playing background, how he entered hockey manufacturing through sticks in 2005, and how True launched in 2013 via True Temper, initially selling sticks and gloves. Mario outlines True’s expansion into skates in 2016 and goalie gear after purchasing Lefevre in 2019, noting strong NHL and Olympic adoption and growing youth presence. They emphasize True’s skate fit and the evolution from tracing feet to scanning and app-based measurements. The conversation also covers youth equipment mistakes (poor skate fit, wrong stick length/curve/flex, and lack of lie options), plus broader issues in youth and junior hockey such as winning over development, frequent trades, oversized rosters, costly ID camps, unclear feedback to cut players, and the need for game IQ. Mark closes with a True skate raffle tied to Stop and Start membership and social followers.
00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro
00:52 How Mario Entered Manufacturing
02:28 Playing Career Background
03:48 True Hockey Origin Story
05:44 Product Line Expansion
07:08 Why True Skates Fit Better
08:24 Skate Tech and Scanning Evolution
12:30 Choosing the Right Stick
15:08 Curve Trends and Oates Pattern
16:34 Goalie Gear Breakthrough
18:24 Youth Hockey Challenges Today
20:01 Too Many Options
21:10 Winning Over Development
24:21 Healthy Scratches Problem
25:19 Junior Hockey Jungle
26:03 ID Camps Money Grab
27:59 Cuts Without Feedback
28:50 Skills Versus Hockey IQ
30:39 Choosing The Right Fit
34:03 Stop And Start Vision
36:20 Giveaway And Wrap Up
Creators and Guests
Guest
What is Between the Shifts — Presented by StopNStarts Hockey?
Between the Shifts is a monthly show for players, parents, coaches, and youth hockey leaders navigating the fast, confusing and often expensive world of youth hockey. Hosted by a former professional player, coach, and parent, and owner of STOPnSTARTS Hockey, Marc Genest. We carve into player development, real-life family stories, coaching culture, costs, training pathways, and everything young athletes and their communities are facing today. Whether you’re in a traditional hockey market or growing the game in the South, this podcast helps you make smarter decisions, understand your options, and avoid common pitfalls. Join us for honest conversations that empower families and fuel hockey dreams.
02 - Between The Shifts - True
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[00:00:00] Alright, well, welcome to between the Shifts podcast that, that we feature here on Stop and Starts. Today I got a special guest, Mario Tien with True Hockey. He's gonna come and, and we're gonna discuss all kinds of stuff, but most importantly, we're gonna discuss obviously his brand, his products, and, and what we see in today's hockey.
Marc: So, Mario, welcome to between the shifts and glad you could be our, our first guest.
Mario: Well, thanks Mark for having me here. It's it's a tremendous honor to be here in, in Rally and do the podcast with you. I think it's a pretty cool project.
Marc: Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Well, um, I, I wanted to first talk about, um, you know, how long how did you get into the, the [00:01:00] hockey manufacturing piece of, of true hockey?
Obviously I skate with your products. I'm a big fan, I'm a big believer in what you guys are building, but just curious for everybody, how, how does one get into the. Manufacturing piece of, of hockey equipment? Well,
Mario: as a, as a former player, I was always intrigued with the product and everything. And in, in oh five, my good friend of mine that, you know, Carl Menard, we get involved with the, the stick industry.
And this is where we kind of started there and it kind grew in us. And this is where we, this is where we started the. Being in the industry.
Marc: Okay.
Mario: Pretty much.
Marc: And so at the time you just started with one stick and you know, as a player, you and I played together. You, you played over 800 games. I, I played a few less at in the 500 range, but you know, back in the day when we played you, you.
You, you would take the stick over the stove and curve the stick or have the blowtorch and, and I guess, you know what, as a, as a creature of habit for us as a player, that [00:02:00] that makes you maniacal in how you, you know, curve your stick and, and just the flex and everything else.
Mario: I've always been in it then, and that's why in, in oh five when it was presented to us and Carl.
We started selling sticks around the locker room and we were telling players, I think, you know what, that product is pretty cool. Yeah. And we kinda grew in it and this is how we started. That's, that's kind of funny. And you know what, maybe that's the longest career being in hockey Pretty much all my life now.
Marc: Yeah. So, while, while we're talking about your, your background, why don't you share with people, um, you know, between your youth career your junior career, and then your pro career. Talk a little bit about that.
Mario: Well, I grew up small village north of Montreal. Big fan of the Montreal Canadian growing up.
Oh boy. Started playing at a young age, did all the, the pat, the Midge, triple A back then it was tough. It was only eight teams. After that they played junior for, for four years in the Quebec League. [00:03:00] And I turned pro and I play about 10 years pro.
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: Really love the game. Still love the game.
Yeah. It's a passion for me.
Marc: Yeah, for sure. And, you know playing in the Quebec major Junior Hockey league was obviously a, a big flagship for your career and a springboard to, to get there. And, and now you have a young son that's trying to just like my son, trying to navigate the world of juniors, I mean, it's.
It's really changed from our era. You know, you talk about eight midt, triple eight teams. Yeah. That, that's fine. In Canada, we have, you know, north of 33 million people that play hockey. The population of Montreal is X. Yeah. And still you only had eight midt, triple eight teams. Now that seems to be an opportunity for a lot more kids to play hockey, so that's, that's pretty cool.
Um. So you got involved in manufacturing how did true hockey come about? I'd love for you to talk about a little bit about the history of how you know, I feel like, gosh, Mario this is my second [00:04:00] pair of skates. I've, I've been involved with True for maybe seven years, I think.
Mario: Okay.
Marc: So, um, yeah, tell me how the, the, the true Hockey brand came to life.
Mario: True Brands started in 2013. Steven Sulin, who was our, our, our General manager president. We've been approached by true Temper to kind of put their, their own division. That's something that they never had in the past.
Marc: And for people who don't know, I'm an avid golfer. True temper or manufacturer of golf shafts.
Yep. For the golf industry. Correct?
Mario: Exactly. So being the number one leader in, in shaft in golf shaft. So we've been approached and by these guys because formerly with Ballistic and Combat, they were making our sticks as a OEM and that's why we, we kind of know these guys and we started that they started that company in 2013.
Okay. It was only sticks and glove mark. That's it.
Marc: Yeah. When you guys started with sticks and gloves. Yeah. [00:05:00] And, and um, I remember, I think Taylor made was involved in, um, making some sticks for CCM or the Taylor made logo was on the shaft of the CCM sticks for a little while.
Mario: CCM brought the tailor made. I think that was the first collab with a golf and a stick.
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: And I think it was a success because. The, the stick was everywhere and, and they came with a white stick. Something that was kind of unique at the time. Back in our day we had some white stick, but at that time I think it was unique on the market.
Marc: Yeah. We had white sticks 'cause we took that can of spray paint and doctoring up stuff off all the time after the curve we had to reinforce the stick by putting another coat of paint on.
So that, that was pretty cool. I, I do want to talk about, you know, so fast forward now, you guys started as an industry with just sticks and gloves. What is your product line now?
Mario: We we had like skates in 2016. We had the, the goalie [00:06:00] factory in 2019. And we had protective previously, but I think we're, we're coming back with protective.
It's been, it's been a, a fun ride, but it's, as in hockey, it's super competitive. The market is, is there and you gotta find a way to, to be successful.
Marc: Yeah. And constantly, you know, trying to evolve and r and d and develop products. I mean, it's one thing to bring a stick to market, but you wanna make sure the stick is durable.
Right. The whole concept. From our wooden sticks when we played the old Sherwood Canadian sticks to, to now it's a composite stick. It's supposed to last longer, not break as much, but it's obviously more expensive. So for you guys to be on the cutting edge, that, that, that's a, that's a heck of an endeavor.
Mario: Yeah, that's a challenge. That's a challenge. But also the, the market change the players change and now they're more aware of what they really need. But sometimes they don't really know [00:07:00] what they need and, and this is where we could interact with them and helping them in choosing the right product.
Marc: Yeah. So in your mind, what is the true difference, like we talk about CCM and Bauer and other hockey manufacturers warrior for, for example, what what makes true. The brand that people should really look at.
Mario: So just to make the people that aware, we're fighting against two companies that are over under the years.
We're fairly new, 2013, but our difference, I think for the skates by example is the fifth. The fifth is totally different. I see in the past people wearing CCM and Bower, and that's fine. They're a good product, but our fit is totally different and I still believe to this day that we have the best fit on the market.
Marc: Yeah, and I could tell the difference being a Bower guy. When I played in Germany, I had to wear CCM skates. That was our league sponsor. Oh my gosh. A nightmare of, of comfort you know, went from the bower [00:08:00] bumps to the CCM heel bump. I mean, I, I, I couldn't wait to get outta my skates. They were so uncomfortable.
And the first pair of true skates that I wore, I was like, oh my gosh, I could be in 'em for hours,
Mario: if I remember right. That's a custom one that you received? Yeah. And, and it. It's basically a copy paste of your foot, which is fantastic. Yeah. So you get in and it's, it's a total fit.
Marc: Talk about, speaking of fit talk about how the skate evolved.
You know, we went from leather boots to a composite boot and talk about how you guys evolved from having to go measure all the players to now having an app where they can measure themselves.
Mario: Well, Scott Vanner, the, the, the, the tru skate guy came from the speed skating. So the speed skating was totally a different niche of a market, and he brought that to hockey.
And now, like, you know, mark, the, the game changed so much. Now it's all about skating [00:09:00] and, and having a, a product that fits you properly. We'll obviously give you the better performance on the ice with all the edges and all the, the power turn and all that. And that's why I think our product is, is something else.
Marc: Yeah. And, and I've seen like, you know, we went to the first time you took, an x-ray of my foot Yeah. To make my first pair of skates. And then all of a sudden we've seen the other manufacturers take notice and they're trying to do something similar. Now you're saying that they also have an app that you can do it yourself, send in your scan, and the skate is made based on your scan of your foot.
Mario: At the beginning we were tracing the feet of the player with a pencil. Oh
Marc: my gosh. Yeah.
Mario: After that we came with the, the, not the radar, but the laser thing, the, I don't know how to call it, but
Marc: like a scan.
Mario: A scan, and now we're using a C app, which is fantastic. So with your phone, you could do your, your scanning and you send it to your local [00:10:00] rep.
Marc: Yeah, that's fantastic. And, and we all know like you have two feet, but they're not exactly the same. You might have one a little longer than the other. You might have one a little wider than the other. Your arch might be a little bit different, so people don't realize that, you know, being in a bad fit has that much of an impact.
Obviously, I, I teach power skating here in Raleigh. That's my passion. I've always been a, a good skater, which enabled me to play hockey with my size for a long time. And I can see the kids as they start, especially the young ones, and even some of the older ones that are just getting into the game that you, I could tell right away that the boot's too big.
I don't care if the kid's got big feet, that skate's too big. And I can also understand from a parent standpoint, right, they want to save some money. I, you know, you're talking thousands of dollars for a pair of skates. I, I would like that skate to last a couple of seasons, but realistically, at the end of the day, that's not always the right.
The right fit,
Mario: not always the right fit, and, and you, you can't go too big because if you go too big, you will get bad [00:11:00] habits and you won't enjoy. The game as much as if you have a good skate Yeah. Or a good fit.
Marc: Yeah, for sure. And then obviously your balance, the foot sliding into the boot makes a big difference.
You want to be centered, you want to have full control of your edges, and you want to be in control of your skate. So whether it's too big just to make the skate last doesn't necessarily. Correlate with you being a good skater. So sometimes I see the kids, you know, either the, the, the skate is tied so tight and it's still way too big for the kid.
And,
Mario: and you don't need to tie that much.
Marc: No, no.
Mario: You need to get that ankle, ankle moving.
Marc: That's right. Especially now with the new boots. When we were playing, we had leather boots and that was a different ball game. Every period you're tidying the Yeah,
Mario: that was never enough.
Marc: It was never enough. No. And they'd always loosen up and, and nowadays it's, it's more like a ski boot.
It's so solid and so formed to your foot that you. All you have to do is B just about lace 'em up.
Mario: Yeah, exactly. And this is what it changed and this is what we need to explain now to the [00:12:00] consumer, how our product is different compared to the competition.
Marc: Yeah. Cool. That's awesome. So would you say that your skates right now or probably your flagship of true?
Or would you say
Mario: Well, yeah, well our, our skates are unique and we're, we're, we are known for, for our skate. Obviously the competition being that hard, it's, it's always a challenge, but it's something that when you mention true it, it comes in mind that it's our skates.
Marc: Yeah. That's fantastic. Well, let's talk about your sticks.
Yeah. Let's elaborate on sticks. You know, we kinda went there first and then kind of gravitated to skates, but let's go back to sticks for a second. You know, I hear kids talking about low kick point, mid kick point. I want this curve. I want that curve. Tell me how you see. You know, we talk about having the wrong fit of the skates and I think a lot of kids are playing with the wrong sticks, you know?
Mario: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I, I [00:13:00] was at the rink last night and I noticed some kids not using the right product, and I don't mind any brands it could be, but I. I see the, the, the, the length of the stick being wrong, probably the wrong curves and, and about the kick point and the flex. I don't think at a young age we should focus on that.
I think it's it's something they're getting from the pros. But again, when you play pro and that's your job, the kick point now is important. But for a kid that 12 years old. I don't really think that the kick point is something they should focus on.
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: They should focus more on, on having the right curve, having the right flex and just finding that could be, could be a hell of a job.
Marc: Now I see sticks in, in the stores now they don't necessarily always point out the lie of the stick, and the lie is the angle by which the blade sits. Yeah. If you're an upright skater, you want to have a higher lie. If you're a lower base skater, you want to have a lower numbered lie. What, why is that not [00:14:00] so talked about anymore?
Because it was a, a really big deal when we were growing up
Mario: in our time we grew up with, that was Live five, live six, and and also the game changed so much these days it's more like a puck possession, puck protection game. And I think having a Live five would be a big imp improvement for players.
And most of the time in store, they don't, they don't carry Live five anymore. Yeah. It's, it's been dictated by the industry, but I, I, I think for a, a better fit or a good fit. They should have more live five in store.
Marc: Yeah, I agree. But you don't even see it on the stick. Like it's not, it used to be live five and then the curve, and now it's all about the flex and the weight of the stick.
So you, you have a player that, that buys a, a, a stick at the store. He's not really sure what lie that is. And all of a sudden dad buys or mom buys a another stick and that's at d at at a different lie. Of course, the kid's gonna feel like the stick is different or maybe he doesn't like it as
Mario: well. The kid goes on the [00:15:00] ice, he miss few passes.
The coach is going nuts, so what's going on? But obviously the first, I think he doesn't have the right product for him.
Marc: Yeah. And let's talk about curve too. You know, I, I grew up, my dad, again, my dad was a plumber. We went right to Canadian Tire. I played with the old artist, stick, straight blade. All my buddies had curve stick.
I could barely get the puck off the ice. And, and now I see these little kids, you know, 7, 8, 9, I mean, the class last night was nine to 10 years old. I, I see these boomerangs on these sticks. It's, it's absolutely ridiculous. Like e even today as a pro, my, you know, I always knew that. My sticks were exactly correct.
Before the season started. The trainer would always call us, mark just got your sticks in, but man, they're messed up. I was like, oh, they're perfect. Yeah, thanks. I got it.
Mario: Now. The curve has been something and, and, and back in our day we had our different curves. Now it's all the same. So it's tough for a kid to play with a boomerang.
Can you imagine the passing on the backend [00:16:00] for, for these kids?
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: That's crazy. So, so that's why I really like the P 92, which is a really cool curve. Very like normal. And, and the new curve, it's called the the oats curve, which is a P 92. With a little bit more height or width on the blade, and it's a, it's a perfect curve.
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: But the, the big banana, the big boomerang, I don't think it's made for everyone.
Marc: Yeah. I mean, the ovechkin curve is for a guy that's probably the greatest score of all time, but. Ovy is Ovy. Yeah. Ovy is Ovy. Well, good. [00:17:00] What do you see, so you talk about going to the rink last night and, and, and, and watching some kids on the ice.
Um, you, you're, you're also a, a, a really big player in the goalie gear business now, right? Yeah. Tell us about that.
Mario: Well, 2019 true purchased the do lafe people out of Montreal. Family that's been involved with goalies for 26 years, they are varied. The signature of goalies. And I [00:18:00] remember back in 2013, our group asked, well what about a goalie category?
Was I think the only option If one day Lafa is up for sale, I think they would be a perfect partner. 'cause otherwise we have no chance. So having these guys, Patrick Vernick and, and the father Michelle. It's a signature on the goalie gear. So we were amazed by the fact that all the goalies follow us. Like the pi, the PI broski, they all came with us and now we have tremendous numbers at the NHL level
Marc: and, and even at the youth level, I mean, last night you were watching, there's a goalie clinic before My power.
Well,
Mario: 10 guys of 12 were wearing the true, the true pads. Yeah. That, that's amazing.
Marc: That's amazing. In Raleigh, North Carolina.
Mario: In Raleigh, North Carolina. Yeah.
Marc: So, yeah. So you would say now that in maybe the last couple years the Goalie Gear has really taken off for you guys and really established help established your brand [00:19:00] as to be a forerunner in the hockey manufacturer.
You know, and,
Mario: and just lately at the Olympic, I think we had 24 goldies using our gear at the Olympic. Which is the biggest like visual that we could get worldwide.
Marc: Yeah, yeah. Obviously, you know, the Olympics were fantastic and, and and the goalie gear was, was great too. So obviously a big showing there.
What do you see is the, the biggest problem for youth player? Obviously, my stop and start business is about helping players find their path. Helping them find their, their, their true direction on where they need to be fighting through adversity. You as a hockey manufacturer, what do you see as the biggest F fly?
We talked about curves, we talked about bad fits for skates. What is it that you see is, is, is the biggest problem that, that you see for youth hockey players?
Mario: I think it's the, um, in, in store mostly is they, they don't, [00:20:00] they don't have all the time the right product for. For their clientele, for their customers.
Mm-hmm. They don't have the right product and not having the right product in stores that could create problem for parents that they don't know anything about it. And I think that's in, in 2026. I think that's the biggest thing. That store don't carry enough product to supply for kids.
Marc: Yeah. And we're getting less and less hockey stores.
Right. You're talking about the bigger brands, buying up the smaller mom and pops, where you had maybe a little bit better service. I mean, we could say that about all types of industry in, in the world, not just the hockey business, but you know, just, just watching the kids today for me. The level and the amount of kids that are playing hockey now versus when we played, you know, my, my, my son, they'll, they'll say, oh, dad, it was way easier back then.
I said, I don't think it was any easier. We had less opportunities. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And, and as many players [00:21:00] playing. Mm-hmm. Today we have more opportunities, more paths, more ways to go. But, but more players. So talk about h how you feel like you're at the rinks all the time. You're watching pro guys, you're watching college guys, you're watching junior guys.
Tell me, what do you see in, in the hockey game as a whole or what you see as so much different today?
Mario: Well, back in our day, we didn't have much options. That was the path and that's it. These days there's so many options, but also the parents, and that's why your thing is, is so good is. They don't know what to do.
They don't really know the, the backend of it. We're from the hockey world. We know exactly what's going on, but for par parents that doesn't know anything about hockey, that could be a nightmare. What are the options for my kid? There's so many.
Marc: Yeah,
Mario: but. They're not always good. You need to Right. To pick the right one for your kid.
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: And I think that's the biggest challenge.
Marc: Yeah. And that's what I see too. I, I see the same thing. I see parents that may not have the hockey [00:22:00] background that our kids have in us, even though they don't always listen. They, they still have. An idea based on our path was different. However, our connections, the people we know, the knowledge of the game, what we're looking for, and, and for me it's development.
You know, I, I think the whole hockey world is gone to just winning, winning, winning. I saw, I read an article the other day, how even the junior game now, it's not about development, it's about winning. I mean, you've got GMs and coaches that are trading two potatoes to get two tomatoes. And and instead of teaching and developing the player to be the player he is, that's why there's so much turnover in the junior game.
Yeah. There shouldn't be no, there shouldn't be so much turnover at, at that level. Junior is just another phase of development
Mario: and it's you know, it's funny that you're saying that, 'cause last night I spoke to a kid that was drafted first round in the Quebec league and he was for the next two game, he will be Lt.
LT scratch with five games left in the season, [00:23:00] that doesn't mean anything. Why are you scratching this guy off the lineup?
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: That for me, that's the development You're talking about development. That's development.
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: Not without, you know, with, with scratching this guy for two games, I don't think you develop anything.
Marc: No, and you're not getting your message across, you know as a coach, you want to discipline your player. You don't want to discipline your player because he made a mistake. You want to discipline your player based on the effort that he's performing, right? And, and that's what I see, you know, for the path that I try to navigate with my son.
I, I'm trying to make sure that he's in an environment with a coaching staff that can develop him and give him opportunities to grow as a player. And, and a lot of people are looking for just the best program to go to. Which at the end of the day, those people may just be recruiting the best players. It doesn't mean that they're developing those players.
Mario: And that's why you think with the the, the, the stop and start, it's huge is you could tell the parents now, yes, it's a great program, but I don't think it fits your son [00:24:00] properly.
Marc: Correct.
Mario: I think that's gonna be super helpful.
Marc: Yeah. And I, and I think again, for a lot of non hockey people Yeah. And the kids with social media and everything else get enamored by, you know, the top level programs.
And instead of paying attention to a standed or a CDA or a universal academy. Yeah. Where the development is, is first and foremost, you know, I, I, I think that's where the problem is and, and I think that's where the disconnect and then you carry that over, right? We, we talk about prep schools and prep academies, you know I, I think at some point the people get enamored by where they go, but not why they're going.
Again, I talked to my first podcast about, you know, how the players I coach, we went through a pros and cons list. About why this is a good place for you. Yeah. And number one was, you know, I'd ask the kids to gimme a list of the top 10 prep schools, right? Yeah. They'd go on Google, find the top 10,
Mario: Mount St.
Charles
Marc: and, and all, yeah, yeah. Mount St. Charles
Mario: Kimball Union, all the big names.
Marc: Yeah, all the big names. And you know, is that really a [00:25:00] good fit for you?
Mario: No e
Marc: Exactly.
Mario: Not all the time.
Marc: Not all the time. And I, I, I think that's where Stop and Starts is gonna be huge for parents just to help navigate the path to make sure every kid has its path.
Mario: But on that, I got calls every day about what's gonna be good for my son. So that's why the, the Stop and Start is perfect for these guys.
Marc: what do you feel like we just talked about player development, a healthy scratch like, you know, my son's played in various junior leagues now. I, I see where the, the coaches and the owners and the GMs have 10 kids in the stands, you know, every game.
And, and I'm like, my gosh, I, I understand you have to cash flow your business. But you can't cash flow it at the expense of having a player watch the game instead of being able to practice and I implement what he's practiced. You know that, that for me is, is just a no go. Well,
Mario: that it's, it's everywhere, mark.
It's in the us it's in Canada now, it's. There's so many players they don't play and it's crucial at their age. They [00:26:00] need to play. They, they, they need to play, they need to be in those situations. But having 10 guys LT scratch per game, I don't think it's the right program for for up kids.
Marc: Yeah. So we talked about your son.
He plays hockey. Yeah. How has his path been for him?
Mario: Well, he he went to the prep school. He went to BCS a good boarding school in, in Quebec. And you know, they sheltered these guys like, it's, it's very good. And as a parent it was fantastic.
Marc: Mm-hmm.
Mario: The junior world, I've been to the junior, it's, it's, it's different.
It's a jungle now, and you could bounce everywhere. It's not always about if you're good or not good. It's, it's about the fact that. If you guys don't win or they don't winning or whatever, this is where the change in, like you just mentioned, they just exchange players. I, I think they should stop. All the, those exchange and trades because I think it's, it's killing the product, which is the kids.
Marc: Yeah. And it's watering it [00:27:00] down. You're talking about main camps then? Another main camp. They used to be called you know, ID Camps. Yeah. To identify the players that they might want to invite. Now it's becoming a, a, a, a money making scheme in order for them to float their program. What again? I'm a business owner. I understand business. Yeah. But man, it's gotta be at not the expense of the players.
Mario: Well, if you're talking about an ID camp with, with eight teams, fourth line, three goalies. That's all about money, man. It's nothing there. Like, it's, it's good for the kids
Marc: and, and the list of people, you know, I get calls all the time.
People are saying, man, I just got invited to this camp and I got invited to that camp. And you know, those camps come with a price tag, you know, and it's not about development. It's three games, boom, boom, boom. You don't make the all star game, you go home and that's it. You know? I don't know that. That's really helping the game.
And again, it's got no part in the development process. For me. I would rather see a team make their [00:28:00] selections, have a training camp that lasts maybe 10 days, make your selections of the guys that you want, and you have to keep those guys for a certain period of time, not allowed to make any roster changes.
Mario: And also the recruiting. I think the recruiting has to be done properly. Just recruiting for recruiting kids. I don't think it's worth it. Recruiting kids for a purpose. I think this is how it should be done.
Marc: Yeah, I agree. And that's how it was done for us. Yeah. They didn't draft 15 kids. They drafted. I think we had in the CJHL back then, which is now the CH the CCHL.
Back then I, I'm not even sure how many rounds there was, but everybody showed up at camp. It was a tryout, and you know, the team look professional sports, everybody, it, it's a business. Yeah, I understand. Yeah. But we have to start figuring out a different way to generate income and. And make it profitable.
Then taking advantage of the families and giving false hope to kids that maybe shouldn't be there too.
Mario: That's the problem. And the false hope and, and also is the not knowing, and not [00:29:00] the, you know, not knowing the reason why you get let go.
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: That's something that those guys, those hockey guys should explain to the kids, you know what, you're not ready.
Go back, play in the junior B and and get some ice time and get better.
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: You're not ready for that level now. Kids are leaving. They don't know anything. They think that they didn't, they didn't like him for what, whatever reason. But talk to the kids. Please Talk to the kids about the reason.
Marc: Yeah.
Mario: And it's, you know, you gotta work on your, on your strength.
You gotta work on your skating. But not knowing why I've been cut. I think it's kind of hard or it's not normal.
Marc: It's not normal and it's not helpful. It's, it's not helping the player go back home and work on the things that he needs to work on in order for him to get better. You know? And, and again, I, I see a lot of skill development.
You know, we talked about the skates and the sticks and all that stuff. Man, I, I think in today's game I see too much emphasis on [00:30:00] skill and not enough emphasis on how to play the game. There, there has to be a better, a, a better median to combine skill work and game work so that kids have a better. IQ sense of how to play, where to go, how to position themselves while using the skills that, look, I, I, my dad never paid for a skills coach, right?
My dad never paid. The only thing I ever did was power skating. That was it. As far as stick handling, we had the luxury of being in Canada, going in the outdoor pond. You watched the older kids, you try to do what they're doing. But that was it. Now, the skill teaching and the skill development, I mean, hunter Bishop's a great skill coach, but I feel like he implements a lot of good programs.
Why? I like what he does, why my son likes to keep going to his, his camps, is that he implements it in a, in a game like situation. You know, the, the going around, the cones and the stick handling the puck. I mean, yeah, you gotta get better at it. But man, the game is much larger than that. I feel [00:31:00] like I see a lot of kids that are going to junior camps and yes, he might be strong.
Yes, he might be able to skate, but man, he can't play.
Mario: Yeah.
Marc: You know,
Mario: and, and, and I see that a lot. They don't understand the game. Something that we were learning back then, we were learning about the game, watching game on TV mark, that's. Kids don't watch games anymore. They just look at the highlights. Yep.
They need to watch game. This is where you get your, your little pointer. You know, you go back in the corner, you do a little cycle there. If you don't see it on tv, how can you do it on the ice? You don't see it on TikTok.
Marc: No, for sure. For sure not. Yeah. And if you were to go back just for, in your personal case with your.
With your son? What? What things would you do any different do you think, now looking back? 'cause your son's in oh five. Yeah. So he's aging out a junior. Mm-hmm. Now. Excuse me, it's the college route or the pro route. What, what would you do different in, say, from his time at BCS, which for everybody that doesn't know, is [00:32:00] Bishop's College School.
Yep. Um, what would you do from the time he left BCS to now?
Mario: Well,
Marc: well, if he would do anything different
Mario: back then, the, the junior major was not an option, so that kind of change, you know. But I, I think would be to pick a right program, not trying to go in the higher level, maybe going. And something better for him in term of development for the first year.
Because the first year had been, been really tough for him in term of moving from team to team, being suspended by Hockey Canada. 'cause he played in the non certified league, which is totally ridiculous. But that's the
Marc: rule.
Mario: That's the rule. So anyway, so that's, this is why I would pick a, a better program for him, for his, instead of looking for, for a.
Too big of a program.
Marc: Yeah. Like even for my son, you know, I, I think I've been adamant about that. And, and Marco at Universal will be the first to know because of all the [00:33:00] prep schools that, um, I have here as, as partners. He's the only one that offers a junior program. But he also plays in the U-S-P-H-L and the NCDC and, and that's a league that for me personally, my son was like, ah, dad, you know, if I go to the CDC, my career is over.
And I'm like, you know, it has nothing to do with where you play. It has everything to do with your touches and your development. Yeah. It doesn't mean that you're gonna go there forever. This might be a good springboard, but we get so enamored with the null and the USHL and this, that, and the other, and false promises and come here and yeah, he's on the team and blah, blah, blah.
And you get there and it and, and it doesn't end up being the truth.
Mario: And what is the most important at the end of the day? Development.
Marc: Development? Absolutely. That's the kid has to develop and he's gonna develop through opportunities. Touches ice time, good development, off ice. It's gotta be the whole package.
And
Mario: that's what parents should focus on instead of playing in in the null, playing in the USHL. [00:34:00] Where it's better for your son?
Marc: Is it better to go to the USHL, be a fourth line, get maybe six minutes a game? Yeah. Is that better for your development or is it better for you to go play in the NC DC, get some power play time, some PK time and a regular shift?
I mean, at the end of the day, for me, it's a no brainer. Yeah. However, social media has an impact, right? Our kids are constantly looking on the other side of the fence. Well, what's, what's little Johnny doing over there? You know? I said, well, we don't need to worry about him. We need to worry about your career path.
Yeah. And I think, you know, that that was my frustration with even my own son. And then a lot of other kids, you know, enamored by different leagues and different places to play, rather than the right place for you.
Mario: And keep in mind, mark, there are 16 to 20.
Marc: Yep.
Mario: All these kids are good. Okay. And you put them all together.
It's the level is, there's, there's better players for sure, don't get me wrong, but at the end of the day, they're pretty much all at the same stage.
Marc: Yep. [00:35:00] So funny question here as we wind this down. Um, again, thanks for being part of the show. Um, I, I, I want you to share with people, I know you've mentioned a couple of times in the podcast already.
When I approached you with this initial idea of stop and start, so I, I want you to kind of elaborate on your thoughts and what you thought about what I was trying to put together here.
Mario: Well, first time you call me, I bought SON that that's pretty cool because there's advisor, there is agents, but I, I think the, the, the offering that we, you, you will have for parents is something that it's not there.
And I think that's, you know, if you could help families about making the right choice. Just explaining to them the, the options or whatnot they have on the market. That will save them money and time and also that will probably send them to the right place. I think your thing will be a success story. Big time.
Marc: Yeah. Oh, I appreciate that. And again, you know, based on our [00:36:00] experience, that's what, that's what Stop and Starts was created, right? I mean, I'm 53, you're 54. We've got kids that have gone through the gamut. I've had a daughter as well that played, my middle daughter did not play hockey, but you know, so I, I've, I've had the opportunity of going both the girl route and the boy route.
And, you know, even with my connections, it was still very frustrating. Ah, I, I just felt like, you know, something needed to be done. And you talk about agents and, and other advisors that are mostly placement opportunity guys, this is not what we do here at Stop and Starts. We want, you know, we have our partners.
These are programs and people I believe in that I think could really help the development side of the player. I'm all about development. That's always been my mo. Coached here in, in the Carolinas for the junior hurricanes at the AAA level for over 15 years. I, I don't think I've ever had a winning record yet.
However, I've placed over 150 kids at the next level and they are thriving. Right?
Mario: And, and for me, this is why it's important, mark. Absolutely. The placement of these kids. To be [00:37:00] successful.
Marc: And don't get me wrong, I used to cheetah cards to be my mom, but I wanna win. I always wanna win. But man, at the end of the day, I, I want these kids to have an opportunity like I had.
And in order to do that, you, you need to, you need to pick a right path for each player. I wanna shout out a reminder here. You know, we're still raffling off. Our first podcast was released on March 17th St. Patty's Day, um, looking to raffle off a pair of true skates. That's obviously been donated by our partner and to the first a hundred members that sign up onto the Stop and Start website.
And then obviously we'll duplicate that for the second 100 slot. We're also shooting for a thousand followers. The first thousand followers on social media, whether it be X Facebook, or um, Instagram. We'll also raffle a para skates there. So again, Marco, I can't Mario, I can't tell you enough about [00:38:00] how Well we appreciate your partnership and just going through and preparing for this podcast was a lot of fun last night, so it was great.
Well,
Mario: thanks for having me and good luck to stop and start. I think you will have a great success.
Marc: Alright, thank you.