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Welcome to "No F**ks Given," where we redefine menopause as a superpower. Hosted by Holly Lamb, a women's health coach, who is navigating early menopause. This podcast offers empowering guidance on women's health and navigating perimenopause with confidence. From nutrition tips to fitness advice and mindfulness practices, we cover it all. But here's the twist: it's all about embracing your most authentic, unapologetic self. We're here to help you reclaim your power, say goodbye to societal norms, and live life on your own terms—no f**ks given. Welcome to the revolution!
Holly Lamb (00:00.698)
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the No Fucks Given podcast with me, your host Holly Lamb. This week I have a special guest. It is Davina Johnson, who is the Birth Your Way doula and she helps to support women to remember their inner wisdom, which I just think is so beautiful. So welcome to the podcast, Davina. It's fantastic to have you here.
Divina Johnson (00:24.184)
Thank you for having me. Yes, it's great to be here.
Holly Lamb (00:26.817)
Thank you. So I like to start the conversation off by how on earth did you get into this amazing line of
Divina Johnson (00:35.453)
How long do we have Holly? How long do we have?
Holly Lamb (00:36.974)
we've got all day.
Divina Johnson (00:40.979)
Okay so I'm a mum of three. I've got a girl and two boys and my entry into birth was a traumatic one. For each birth I had actually I had three caesareans and I had my children all within five years so I suffered a lot of...
physical, emotional, mental and spiritual challenges going through that
Kind of after my first two children, had a daughter, first and a son, after those two, I decided I wanted to kind of change direction with what I was doing. I was corporate at the time, I was working in insurance, didn't light my fire. And then all of 2020 happened and I was very low. And it was for
Holly Lamb (01:37.572)
No, funnily enough.
Divina Johnson (01:47.964)
was the best thing that ever happened to me because it was the first time in my life that I'd ever actually stopped. I've worked since I left college and I've never really stopped working or stopped to take stock of my life ever and kind of getting that call. It was literally like I got a call that said, Danina, you're not allowed to work so put your laptop away and we'll contact you when things change and that was it. Literally from the next
That was it. I was just like, well, OK. And then I literally woke up the next day thinking, well, what do I do? I've always just got up and gone to work. The only days I have off is the weekend. And was literally like, don't actually know what to do because I don't have work. And it kind of all started from there. I started, I remembered some things.
And I remember I woke up and everybody was asleep and I was like, I don't really know what to do. And so I went downstairs and I sat there and I was like, I don't really know what to do. And then I just remembered I was like, meditation. And I was like, God, yeah, but I haven't meditated in years. like, yeah, I do like meditation. Like it's really quiet. Yeah, I'll do that. And I let down. I went onto YouTube and I just did the first one that came up, which just happened to
a child meditation and I just thought, well, yeah, that sounds cool. I'll do that. I let down on the floor, was taken through that meditation, it's a guided meditation. And like, I don't think I've ever cried like that ever. It was like a, and it wasn't even like a, it was like a wailing to like the point I got
cushion like over my face to like try to to hide the noise because I didn't want to wake anybody else up but I was just wailing it was like so much was coming out of me in that moment and so unexpected because that's just not what I thought was gonna happen and it was literally after that had happened and I kind of gathered myself and I just went on my phone and literally just on my phone was this coaching program that came up and I hadn't
Divina Johnson (04:13.316)
even ever heard of coaching. I've not heard of that before and I just went down this rabbit hole and I found the coaching and I was like my god this is what I want to do. This is what I want to do with my life. I want to help people in this way. This is kind of what I've always done which is I'm the go -to person you know my friends and family are like going to for you know things that are happening in their lives and come to me but I've always
the kind of person who knows that the person has it within them, they just need the right support to be asked the right questions for it to come up, but you have all of your own answers. And then when I saw coaching, I was like, this is what they, this is what you can do. Like you can actually help people to see what's inside them. So fast forward, I kind of did that. I did lots of other things as well. NLP and hypnotherapy, therapeutic coaching.
Holly Lamb (04:51.504)
Yes. Yes.
Divina Johnson (05:12.231)
And it's kind of all brought me to this place of now helping women to find their inner wisdom in a time that I think is quite critical and important, which is giving birth. But I specifically help women who have had traumatic births first, because I feel like it knocks your confidence when you've had something like
And not just your confidence in birth, but in all aspects of yourself. Because it's not just the birth itself, it can be how you were treated by people. You can feel guilty because you didn't advocate for yourself. Things happen that you may not have wanted and it kind of shifts who you are as a person. And so I help women, those who want to recover from that and find their light again. And then also for women who are ready
become pregnant and want to have another baby to be able to birth like a goddess. So that's the, that's the shortest version of how I got to where I am now. It's been a journey. It's been a journey.
Holly Lamb (06:14.18)
Yeah, I love that.
Holly Lamb (06:20.966)
Wow, yeah, yeah. And it's quite sad that you had to go through what you did in order to reach this place. But then obviously you've taken what's happened to you and you're turning it into a positive and helping other women, which is what happened to me, my early menopause diagnosis. And I was like, right, so how can I help other women to understand what's happened?
Divina Johnson (06:27.908)
and
Divina Johnson (06:36.717)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (06:45.625)
Yeah.
Holly Lamb (06:49.584)
think it's so powerful with what you're doing because I think as we get older and we head into the different phases of life, if we've not dealt with those traumas of birth and all those other things, then you're gonna carry that into your menopause. And there's so many things that come up then anyway, that if you're not dealing with it then, then it's gonna come up again and again and again.
Divina Johnson (06:59.311)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (07:10.36)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And then even so, because you're now raising the next generation, so it will also come out in them. And I think that's the part that I think at some point it'd be hard to hear for some mums especially, but we can't shy away from the fact that we know that we could pass things on. We know that from ourselves. We know what we get from our parents or our caregivers.
Holly Lamb (07:23.668)
Yes.
Divina Johnson (07:39.916)
So it's knowing that you want to be able to raise a self -regulated child, children, and by doing that you have to become it. So we become it and then that's what we get to pass on because I know, especially with my daughter, but also with my sons, you know, I don't want to pass on that birth is scary or that it's, yes, something to be feared or something that's painful
Holly Lamb (07:48.816)
Yes,
Holly Lamb (08:02.159)
Mmm.
Divina Johnson (08:08.065)
and how I felt in those early years with them. Like I don't want that to be lasting for them to think that, motherhood is hard or parenthood is hard or it just, that's not what I want. So that means that I have to become it so that they can see it. And that's, that's what I help women do.
Holly Lamb (08:11.377)
Mm -hmm.
Holly Lamb (08:27.1)
That's amazing. And as we know, like the ages zero to seven, they're so impactful. They, I don't think we realize, and you don't realize and the kids realize at the time, but all that information is going into them and they're seeing and feeling. It's the feeling, isn't it more as we know we're in a, what's the word, program together.
Divina Johnson (08:31.102)
Exactly. Yes.
Now
Divina Johnson (08:39.712)
Yeah.
Thanks for today. Yeah. coaching program, yeah.
Holly Lamb (08:53.166)
in a programme together and it is so impactful and it's tapping into those feelings. So when you're in that really positive, grounded place, then you're passing that onto your children.
Divina Johnson (09:02.883)
Yeah, exactly. And it's not all about that kind of fake positivity, having to be high vibe all the time. No, I think I did mention it. I don't know if you were there, but on one of the calls where my kids say to me now, Mum, are you overstimulated? Like, they know what it looks like now. And that's the kind of thing that you want. Like you want your kids to be able to, it's not about always being positive all the time. It's
Holly Lamb (09:09.2)
Mm -mm.
Holly Lamb (09:30.139)
Mm.
Divina Johnson (09:30.241)
when you are feeling overstimulated or if you are feeling challenged, that they recognize what that looks like and then what I do to regulate myself so that when they become overstimulated or frustrated or, I remember like when mum feels like this, she does like this breathing thing, like let me get that go, you know? So because none of the feelings are bad, they are a human experience, it's how we manage them. So that's what you wanna teach your kids. It's not like, let's
Holly Lamb (09:46.297)
Yeah.
Holly Lamb (09:53.712)
Mm -hmm.
Divina Johnson (09:59.995)
happy all the time because that's not what life is like but how do we deal with it when we're not feeling that way and that's so yeah when they say that to me and like it just makes me it also takes me out of my overstimulated moment because i just think it's really funny when they say it because it's true because i am
Holly Lamb (10:15.492)
Yeah, yeah, but that's great. And their awareness that they're picking up on that already is amazing. Because I think as we go through life, our awareness becomes smaller and smaller and smaller because of all the outside distractions as we know. So for them to be picking up on that and going, okay, well, this is what I need to do in order to regulate myself because mum does it is amazing.
Divina Johnson (10:20.809)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (10:27.025)
Yes.
Divina Johnson (10:37.413)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, again, like, you know, they don't call it that regulating because that's, know, but it's like to feel better. And that's really what it is. It's like, to feel better. do this. Like, I remember one day, like the kids were just playing whatever, but I couldn't find I couldn't see my son. wasn't in the living room. And then I went upstairs and literally I might have to share this picture on social media, actually, because it's just so funny. He was like in his bed, like in.
Holly Lamb (10:43.343)
No,
Divina Johnson (11:03.153)
like the yogi position, like legs crossed. I was like this on his bed, he's got a bunk bed, he's on the top and he was just on the top like, hmmm. I was like, are you okay? He's like, yeah, I'm just being calm. I was like, okay. I was like, okay, I will leave you to it. I will leave you to it. It is so cute and it's just, yeah, and I just love it. it's, I love that they have these tools that I didn't have.
Holly Lamb (11:07.42)
amazing.
Holly Lamb (11:16.061)
Holly Lamb (11:22.054)
That is amazing.
Holly Lamb (11:31.994)
Yeah. No. Same. Mm. Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Divina Johnson (11:32.607)
I didn't have any of this stuff until I was in my 30s, or late 20s, 30s. I didn't have any of stuff. And they're five. So it's just, yeah, I do. love it.
Holly Lamb (11:43.43)
that's that's that's just so beautiful I can just see the cross -legged yeah please do
wow. But getting back to obviously like your line of work and stuff. So how exactly do you support the women that are coming to you? I mean, you mentioned obviously about it's more for after birth trauma, but do you also kind of help women through the actual birth process as
Divina Johnson (11:58.802)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (12:03.975)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (12:13.495)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. yeah, so I've worked with women who have already had a child, basically. And that birth may not have gone the way that they wanted. They know they want another child and but it's scary now. I mean, there's so many women I speak to that say, just say never again. Like after that experience, I don't want to have another child. But they do. But they're afraid. So.
So yes, we work on that. So for women who are wanting to become pregnant again, or already pregnant but now are feeling worried and feeling scared about it, because also that's something that can happen. And I know because that's what I did with my second is that I didn't deal with any of the trauma of my first. And I just thought, I really want another child. Like, I'm just going to grit my
And I can just get through it. Like, I'll just get through it. Like, let's just get pregnant and go through it because I really want my daughter to have a sibling. But and you think you can just push it down. You just think I'll just push it down. I'll forget about it. Like, I'll just focus on this. But that's just not how trauma works because it's stored in the body. So it can be the slightest thing that reminds you of something, triggers something, and then it comes up and then you get this fear.
I work with women who, to remove that fear and remember what they have inside, which is their best resource, which is them. And that will be through the antenatal period. So doing antenatal classes, which are very different from any antenatal class that you've done, because I'm quite sure you don't sing and dance and talk about colours and clothes and accessories in your antenatal classes that you do in mine. That is what we talk about, as well as all of the other stuff about how your pelvis works.
Holly Lamb (13:57.498)
Yay!
Divina Johnson (14:07.182)
how to get the baby out, but because it's not just about information, like this is about transformation. So it's about how you feel about yourself as a woman and as a mother, how you want to feel. We talk about what you want to happen. We talk about the, we talk about the body, not just as a vessel, as like blood and flesh, but as an energetic body. There's somatic stuff that we.
do a lot of, love, is which is about the dancing and the, because we store a lot of trauma as women in our hips and we need our hips to be flexible for birth. So a lot of women, know, sometimes don't even realise that we hold our trauma there and that could be some of the reasons why birth may not have been the way they want is because we've been so afraid that this part of our body is so tight. So we look to release that to make it suffer for birth.
Holly Lamb (14:46.529)
yeah.
Divina Johnson (15:03.789)
So we work through all of that in antenatal and then in birth itself. I say birth your way because I want birth to be your way, like however you want birth to be, but I'm really big on, yeah, just informed decisions. So I know a lot of women who have, like said, yeah, I'm having a plan C section. I had a plan C section for my second, but I know why I did, because I didn't want to go through what I did the first time round. But I want women to know
just because you had a traumatic birth the first time round, that doesn't mean that's what you're going to have the second time round. Like what happened the first time round does not have to happen this time round. If you want a planned C -section, like obviously it's your choice and I'm all about autonomy, like you do what you want, but do it from the right place. Like don't make any decisions from fear because you're always going to regret those ones. Like do it from an informed place. Like if you know that, okay, like this, you know, I really want this for whatever the reason is.
Holly Lamb (15:50.618)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (16:00.278)
OK, fine, but just know, like, it doesn't... Don't go for it if it's just because you're afraid of what happened before. Because what happened before doesn't have to happen again. So I can support women through that stage of actual birth as well. And I always just like to mention as well
Holly Lamb (16:08.523)
Mm -hmm.
Divina Johnson (16:21.333)
You can have a home birth after a cesarean as well, just so that people know that. Because some people think that they can't do that. Yeah, you can. Just to let you know. If you would like to have, or just a vaginal birth, even if it's in a hospital setting or whatever, but you can do that after a c -section because the medical system would like to tell you that if you've had a c -section and you have, then that's it. Then you just continue to have to have one. You don't want to put that out there. And then postnatally as well, I like to support women
Holly Lamb (16:26.608)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (16:53.526)
Again, remembering, remembering your inner wisdom, remembering who you are, remembering that no one knows that baby better than you do. Because there's so much doubt sometimes that can creep in, especially from other people's opinions and, you should do this and, they've got this and all. No. Tune in. Tune into you and your baby. Like, no one knows that baby better than you do. No
Holly Lamb (17:09.509)
Of course.
Divina Johnson (17:20.246)
So I like to help with that. And then if you have had either one, vaginal or C -section, that there are things that you can do for your body energetically and physically to recover quickly. And 80 % of that physical recovery is in your mind. And so we work a lot on that as well in how you're feeling. We do a debrief on what happened during your birth,
what's in your body, how is it feeling, just making sure that you feel good and you understand everything that's happened so that nothing is rolling around in your mind of, could have done this or could have done that, or just making sure, because all of that is wasted energy of thinking this and thinking that, so you really want to be focused on your recovery and your baby and your family, know, and your family integrating the baby into the family.
Holly Lamb (18:05.222)
course.
Divina Johnson (18:16.489)
And then kind of all the practical things, the exercises, the food to eat. If you're into aromatherapies and massages and all that kind of stuff, just things that help that postpartum period be exactly what it is that you need to feel great. We work on that part too. So that's what I do with a woman who is pregnant. And then there are those who...
Holly Lamb (18:35.61)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Divina Johnson (18:46.964)
either don't want to have another baby now or they're just, they don't, but they are suffering with birth trauma. So they're having the panic attacks or sleepless nights, insomnia, flashbacks is a really common one, feeling isolated, anxious, just feeling really anxious. And this is for mums who are kind of like 18 months or more post their baby and they're still feeling good things.
Holly Lamb (19:04.92)
Mmm.
Divina Johnson (19:14.964)
I do a 12 month coaching program with them, one to one basis and we go through.
which what I call is the HEAL method. My unique method is the HEAL method. The H starts with the head, which is all about the thoughts. Like, what are you thinking? Like, what's going on in there? We kind of go through all of that. And then the E is the emotions. And we go through how you're actually feeling about all those things. Like, those two things are different. So thoughts and feelings. Making sure that people understand that those are different. And the A is the anchor.
Holly Lamb (19:31.335)
Mmm.
Divina Johnson (19:49.703)
which is your physical body and that's where we do all of the somatic work and as I mentioned that the trauma is stored in the body and it can be stored in all different ways. Like I've had women that said like like ever since I've had the baby like I just have this shoulder pain like at the back or I've had this backache or you know below my scar still hurts and just FYI just throw in there you shouldn't your scar or your belly any kind of area of your palisade section shouldn't still be hurting
months or years after your c -section you should not still be numb in that area. A lot of women just think that they should like I've had a c -section so I'm just numb and that's just it. Women that have been like eight, ten years afterwards are still numb in that area. That's not normal. Yeah so just so women know that that's not normal. You shouldn't be numb in those areas and you can do something, think about it if you are. So we spend a lot of time on the physical somatics as well for that area.
Holly Lamb (20:23.632)
Wow. Wow.
Holly Lamb (20:31.216)
Wow.
Divina Johnson (20:46.704)
And then the L isn't about living, like what do you want your life to look like? Like what is a reality that you want to create for yourself? And we make a plan to make that happen. And that's what I do for the women who have had that as well.
Holly Lamb (21:01.045)
Wow. I love that heel. That's just so beautiful. And it's completely true because I've found this with my clients in the menopause transition that it all starts from the inside first. I can give you all the nutrition exercise. I could do all the things, but if we're not working on the mindset and the emotions first, then nothing else is gonna change.
Divina Johnson (21:12.411)
Yeah. Yeah.
Divina Johnson (21:25.718)
No, yeah, so true. Yeah, absolutely. That's why it's in that order as well for that very reason. Like we can't just go straight to the physical stuff or the like all the tools because it just it's a plaster when really we're trying to get to the root.
Holly Lamb (21:39.876)
Yeah,
Yeah, and I think the work that you're, mean, cause I've got a friend who had two C -sections and her birth canal wasn't the right shape to give birth, but after the first child, they hadn't worked that out. So she was in labor for a second time and then had to go and have another C -section. And only then did she find out that she wasn't able to give birth naturally because of the pelvis. Yeah, exactly. But.
Divina Johnson (21:56.377)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (22:03.673)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Holly Lamb (22:11.788)
Women have failed so often, so often where things like that, surely that should have been picked up first time round. And it's just brilliant that you are here doing this kind of work. Yes, sometimes it might be after the fact, but at least women know that there is help available and out there to help them.
Divina Johnson (22:13.23)
Yeah, so yeah.
Divina Johnson (22:18.85)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (22:25.306)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (22:32.91)
See
Holly Lamb (22:34.998)
navigate this and then this will then get them in that right mindset, mind frame for what else is to come and to have another child or to head into that next phase of
Divina Johnson (22:42.156)
Yeah, yeah definitely. And like you say, women have failed so often and I think really in the maternity system, like spectacularly. mean it's just, women are expected to just either just deal with pain or to just deal with lack of information or to just do as they're told and everything is just meant to be okay. Like just be quiet.
Holly Lamb (23:05.18)
Mm -hmm.
Holly Lamb (23:10.138)
Yeah. Yeah.
Divina Johnson (23:10.56)
and just get on with it. That's the kind of message that women get in a time where, I mean, arguably they're most vulnerable. In a time where you feel like you're looking to these people to help you and to be there for you. And it can be for a lot of women, not all, but for a lot of women. It's a really traumatic experience for them.
Holly Lamb (23:26.404)
Mm -hmm.
Divina Johnson (23:38.955)
And we know we've had the birth trauma report that came out a couple of months ago now with the thousands of women and men and families that wrote in to speak about it. And we know that that only scratched the surface because that's only the ones that can come forward. And I also want to be able to let women know that that's also not normal because I think that's also what's happening is being treated that way in hospital.
Holly Lamb (23:39.238)
Mmm.
Holly Lamb (24:03.996)
Mmm.
Divina Johnson (24:06.389)
is like, well, that's just how you're treated. That's what happens when you have a baby. Well, no. No. That's not just what happens when you have a baby. No, you don't have to be spoken to that way. No, you don't. You're allowed your own opinion. You're allowed to ask questions. I speak to so many women who like, yeah, I just didn't want to ask, but I didn't know if I could. I didn't know if I could question the authority, because that's how it seems. Like the doctor is above you. Also not true.
No one's above you. It's your body, it's your baby and you get to ask questions. You get to do it your way. They're there to give you recommendations of what they suggest but it's your decision. Always your decision and I think it feels, and I know because I've been there, it doesn't feel like your decision sometimes. You feel railroaded into it, into things.
Holly Lamb (24:37.756)
but they
Holly Lamb (24:48.784)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (25:04.959)
You get offered things that are not explained to you. Yeah, and all of that is wrong. That's not how it should be. That's not normal. That's not how it should be when you have your baby. I was thinking about this the other day. I'm going to do some posts on it as well. But because the system has really just whittled this down to a process. It's like a process. You're pregnant and we've got to get the baby out. It's a
Holly Lamb (25:11.739)
Mm -hmm.
Holly Lamb (25:29.454)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Divina Johnson (25:34.715)
not the actual bucket. Can you swear when you're podcast? Sorry. Yeah, I just said that. just thought, but it's a fucking miracle. Like an actual miracle. Like what is happening right now? Like an actual human being that had been created inside your body that is now about to come out is a sacred miracle.
Holly Lamb (25:38.918)
It's called No Fucks Given. Of you can.
Holly Lamb (25:49.043)
Mmm, it is.
Divina Johnson (26:03.413)
that have just been brought down to a process.
Holly Lamb (26:08.409)
Yeah, that's so true. Like when you say it like that, it's so true. It's get them in, you stay in for this long, get them out, off you go, that's it. Yeah.
Divina Johnson (26:15.047)
Yeah, yeah, that's it. And go, that's it, yeah, onto the next. It's literally a conveyor belt. That's it. And when you're in it, like, and I've done it the three times, that's exactly how it feels. Literally get in, get this woman to have her baby and get out. I mean, in my second, it was, I think it was four, half four in the morning. And a nurse came to me and said, so this is the day after my C -section. And she said, how are you feeling?
Do think you'd be able to go home now because we really need the bed?
at her passport in the morning, we really need the bed. And that's what it feels like. It just feels like you are a number that they just need to move on. Like they just got to get you out. And to be honest, I was grabbed anyway because I wanted to get out of there because I didn't. It's not somewhere that I felt. You don't feel wanted. You don't feel like you, you know, to be there. I wanted to get out. So it was, you know, fine. But like that's the like that's what women are dealing with. It's just a process, a number like get out.
Holly Lamb (26:53.208)
I do apologize.
Divina Johnson (27:18.99)
not the fact that you have just birthed a human being. Also, if you've had a C -section, had a major abdominal surgery, let's just put that out there as well, major abdominal surgery, but with any other major surgery, that's not how you would be treated. You'd also have a plan of how to rehabilitate yourself, which the NHS do not give any mothers of what to do to rehabilitate your body. They've just, just get out basically, just get out. See ya.
Holly Lamb (27:28.742)
Yes.
Mm -hmm.
Holly Lamb (27:40.762)
No.
Holly Lamb (27:46.64)
your pops. See you later.
Divina Johnson (27:48.709)
you and your baby, off you go. And that's it. it's, women have completely failed. so that's, yeah, that's why I do what I do, because it's just wrong. And there is that sacred miracle part of it has just gone. And that being in connection with your own body as a woman and as a mother.
is also not nurtured at any point either. It's just literally hand over all of your power to these people to give you appointments and scans and this and that and tell you XYZ and they know best and all of a sudden you don't know anything about it. The amount of women that I've spoken to that are like, I said I was in labour and they were like, no, you're not. And it's like, what? Huh? And then, know, within the hour the baby's out. Do you know what I mean? Like, because we're
Holly Lamb (28:41.338)
Wow.
Divina Johnson (28:46.466)
encouraged to trust our own body. Like, and no one's listening. They're not listening. No one's listening. And so that's, that's why I do what I do. Why I want women to tap back in to their inner wisdom. Like, you know your body best. You do. You go there for recommendations and a lot of, but no one can tell you more about you than you. It just feels that way because that's how we've been conditioned to give out to others. But
Holly Lamb (28:50.3)
Mm -mm.
Holly Lamb (29:02.383)
Yes.
Holly Lamb (29:13.061)
Mm -hmm.
Divina Johnson (29:15.502)
know that if you if you learn how to connect back into your own body your body will tell you your body will tell you and i don't know if it's you or with other women that you have worked with but women who have you know been able to think it was yourself to put their cycle back in by focusing on yourself like learning how to focus yourself like i also my cycle has always been normal but what i learned about was you know
Holly Lamb (29:22.606)
Mm. Yeah.
Holly Lamb (29:34.128)
Mm. Yes. Yes.
Divina Johnson (29:45.177)
where I'm at my best in my cycle. Also, the feelings I get in my body, I always thought that I got a pain on my right hand side of my stomach on my period, on my bleed. And it was only just a few months ago, I was like, no, I really wanna focus in on the month. And then I realized that I actually got the pain actually.
about five days prior to my actual bleed and I was like, actually, like, this is my body, like, giving me like a sign. So instead of actually having to always look at the app, I could kind of, and I like the app, I love the app, I will still use it. But instead of tuning out and just looking at the app, let me tune in. And I can say, actually, when I get this little pain, that means I'm about five days away. It's about to start, we're so, you know, no one teaches us to do this.
Holly Lamb (30:32.976)
Mm -hmm.
Divina Johnson (30:42.603)
Like no one teaches us to go in and actually realise that your body's telling you loads of stuff. I did the same thing with my food and like how I changed my nutrition and like really realising that when I ate something, like what happens, what do I feel like taking the time and then that's when I realised that dairy wasn't for me. I really liked it. I really liked the taste. I loved it. But my body's like, mm we don't, we don't. And so I haven't had that for some time, but that was just me.
Holly Lamb (30:56.825)
Mmm.
Holly Lamb (31:04.048)
I love dairy.
Divina Johnson (31:12.662)
just taking the time to like slow down, look in, like what's it feel like? Like what's going on in here? And all the answers are in there. And then that's just, I would just want women to be able to connect with themselves again. And I just think once you've had a, I mean, I think there's many for you, you was early menopause diagnosis, maybe, I don't know if you've done stuff before, but I feel like sometimes something happens in your life that then makes you look
Holly Lamb (31:15.152)
Yes.
Holly Lamb (31:19.686)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Divina Johnson (31:41.983)
You know, like something happens, maybe it's a death or a birth or a diagnosis or something happens. And you're like, you start to question and then you start to go on this kind of journey. And I think that's why who I work with is women who have had birth experience already, because it just starts the inquiry. It just does. It just brings things up that you just maybe not thought about before or you had but you squashed.
Holly Lamb (31:42.139)
Yes.
Holly Lamb (32:04.944)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (32:11.679)
It all comes out in birth. And then, but there is at the moment, like in the mainstream, and then there won't be, what do you do with that? So women are just kind of left open and they don't know what to do with all of this. And then I believe that then breeds the cycle of different mental health issues and physical issues with women. like you said, if you don't deal with it now, it's just going to come out in menopause.
Holly Lamb (32:11.706)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Holly Lamb (32:25.968)
Yeah.
Holly Lamb (32:35.056)
Yes. Yes.
Divina Johnson (32:40.787)
It's just, do you know what mean? It's it's a cascade. So once you've been opened, then that's when you call me.
Holly Lamb (32:49.872)
Yeah, I know. it's sad it has to get to that point. Like I've been told like there's women that are like, it'd be amazing to get people like us in schools and to talk about going inwards when you hit puberty and listening to your body because that's what menstrual cycle awareness is. And yes, there's the apps, which are great, but the next level and the next layer is tapping in, listening. I have a journal just about my cycle.
Divina Johnson (32:52.823)
Yes.
Divina Johnson (33:00.104)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Divina Johnson (33:09.49)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (33:15.497)
Yeah.
Holly Lamb (33:19.036)
and I write down nuances, feelings, energies each day, and then I can see the trends. And especially if you have a menstrual cycle that is very irregular, it's a really good tool to help to bring it back into alignment. And if girls knew that from 12, 13, 14, then we wouldn't have all this. We wouldn't.
Divina Johnson (33:21.512)
Yes.
Divina Johnson (33:25.631)
The end.
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (33:36.446)
Yeah, how amazing. it's amazing. No, yeah, that's it. And I do, guess in my, you know, I don't know, if I ruled the world, like, mind in that vision, that maybe it'll get there. Because, like, I know in my house, my six year old son knows what a period is. He knows when I'm on a period, he knows.
Holly Lamb (34:03.91)
Amazing.
Divina Johnson (34:06.163)
that Ezzie, my daughter, will have one when it happens, what it feels like. And I know in my generation and those before, that would be a no. Like boys, especially for boys, we don't talk about periods in the house. It's something that we need to, it's got this shame attached to it. It gets a woman's problem and I don't need to know anything about it. So I would like to think this next generation is coming up because of women like us.
Holly Lamb (34:17.382)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Holly Lamb (34:24.602)
women's problems.
Divina Johnson (34:36.69)
that are helping women with their cycles or just these parts of their lives and they will then influence younger people and that maybe that there will be a change. I mean, also have someone, yeah, this week I spoke to you who said, like, I still think that you need to go into universities and speak to midwives. And I was like, I agree. Like, I do, like, because you want to get to the root. But for
the root is the individual person. There will come a time, I'm sure, I hope, I don't know, at one time where people like us will be able to go into schools and universities and speak to people, but I think that there can be bigger change on an individual level first. The ripple effect will happen, and that's what I hope. Like every woman that I speak to and help,
Holly Lamb (35:07.856)
Yes.
Holly Lamb (35:26.756)
I agree. The ripple effect.
Divina Johnson (35:34.618)
their children will now get a different version of them and that's the ripple. Then they will grow up and be like, they will think differently to have, you know, and have different experiences to what I had. Yeah, I just, that's the hope. But yeah, I think it's individual first.
Holly Lamb (35:42.672)
Yeah.
Holly Lamb (35:50.64)
yeah. Yeah, no, I totally agree because especially with women, women will talk to one another. Funnily enough, I've just gone and have my toenails done and I was chatting to the woman and she was like, why don't you come and host an evening here around menopause? I'll get some women in, I'll put up some flyers, let's start here and then it ripples out. Just little things like that. Just from talking to her who's in menopause, who's on HRT, who's had
Divina Johnson (35:56.922)
Exactly.
wow.
Divina Johnson (36:12.705)
Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Holly Lamb (36:20.41)
an absolute shit house of a time. And I went, there's other ways that you can help yourself. Let's put something together. And it's just that, isn't it? That little seed and then the ripple. Yeah.
Divina Johnson (36:26.393)
Yeah, talk about that. It is, yeah. And then the ripple. I can't remember the year, but you there was a time back in the days, back in the days, that you know they even put a law in to stop women doing that. That's where the word gossip came from. Yeah, and I will also do another post on this coming up. But yeah, they stopped
Holly Lamb (36:47.42)
Please.
Divina Johnson (36:51.738)
gathering and talking. So there was a time where women would gather, which they would, women would gather, they would talk about life, talk about kids, and what they would talk about was men, letting them know, you know, I went with this guy, he was not the best guy, like, don't be careful. So kind of just warning each other. And so then they put in a law to stop women gathering. They absolutely are. And I just think to myself, wow, like, wow. And they called it gossip. So maybe, made it bad.
Holly Lamb (37:11.268)
Of it did because women are powerful when they come together.
Divina Johnson (37:20.792)
they made it bad that women to come together. So they kind of banned it and said that you should keep your wife in your house. That's what the law said. Keep your wife in your house. Stop her going out to talk to people. You just think about what? Yeah, and I like to share these things in my like sessions I have with women and stuff, just to also let them know
Holly Lamb (37:34.718)
wow, I didn't know that.
Yes.
Divina Johnson (37:44.14)
Like it's not your fault. Like the reason that you feel this way and things that happen this way, the why you're afraid of your voice, why you might find it difficult to advocate for yourself. Like these things are ingrained. Like they've been passed to us because there was a time where we couldn't use our voice because it was dangerous to do so to the point that there was a law in place that stopped you from talking. So, you know, it's it's generational. And that's why we're that's why we're here now breaking it.
Holly Lamb (37:55.046)
Yes.
Mm Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Holly Lamb (38:08.198)
Yes. yes.
Divina Johnson (38:13.209)
But yeah, it's like when women, always say it when I have my circles, like, because I see the transformation that happens in just like 90 minutes of women coming together. And you're just like, we are so powerful. I mean, it's just, it's incredible. And, and that, yeah, and I want women to know and to remember. And it's like, it's not a thing that, which is why I like to use the word remember, because it's not something
Holly Lamb (38:28.154)
Yeah, well, exactly.
Divina Johnson (38:42.092)
that you need to find or something that you need to gather. Like you already have it. It's already in there. It just needs to come out. It's been suppressed. It just needs to come out. It's already there. It's already there.
Holly Lamb (38:46.896)
guests.
Holly Lamb (38:54.596)
I discovered that doing a lot of the menstrual work, we did a lot of guided sessions with this menstruality leadership program I've just finished. And one of the guided sessions, what came out was my inner child saying, everything you need to know is already within you. And I was like, fucking hell, that's profound. And I was like, but it's true. It's so true. And I want, yeah, more women just need to
Divina Johnson (38:57.196)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (39:07.032)
No?
Yes, it's so true. It's so true. It's already there.
Yeah, just need to remember, yeah. It's been, it's a system that with the goal of stamping that out, like the whole goal is for you not to trust yourself in the society because if you did, if you did, they're hell indeed.
Holly Lamb (39:26.95)
Mmm.
Holly Lamb (39:33.456)
Yes.
Holly Lamb (39:37.5)
Fucking hell. Fucking hell. It would be a completely different world, but that's how we start. The ripple effect, that's how we start. Wow. Wow. I think, Tavina, we could probably put the world to rights for another hour.
Divina Johnson (39:44.265)
Yeah, that's how we tell that. Exactly that. Exactly that.
I know.
Holly Lamb (39:57.564)
That's, do you know what? That's been so lovely. You I don't have children, but I just love, I just love what you're doing because it's clearly needed because of the system and the country that we live in that doesn't support women like they need to. So if someone was listening to this and going, fucking hell, I need, I need Davina in my life. How, how do they work with you?
Divina Johnson (40:16.662)
Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram at The Birth Your Way Doola and you can find my website which is davinajohnson .com. Davina is D -I -V -I -N -A. So davinajohnson .com. You can find me there and DMs are always open as well and all the other platforms, Facebook, social, LinkedIn. I'm all there. there. Yeah, you'll find me.
Holly Lamb (40:41.529)
everyone.
I'll put it in the show notes anyway so people can connect with you and reach out, even if it's just for a bit of a chat, just to put your mind at rest and go from there. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Davina. This has been amazing. I love it. Thanks so much. Thanks for listening, guys, and I'll see you on next week's episode.
Divina Johnson (40:47.975)
Yeah.
Divina Johnson (40:51.464)
Yeah, have a chat. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, thank you, Harle. You're feeling lovely. Thank you.