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This is the home of content for dads to learn new skills and tackle life challenges.
We're building the biggest online university on the planet for dads who want to improve their lives, and the lives the generations that will follow.
On this podcast you'll experience a mixture of life lessons, entertainment and educational content to help you push forward.
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When you're a founder in any business, you don't have that opportunity. There literally is no exit. You're basically just, you know, any stress, and that's why I think burnout happens because people deal with daily stress, and it's, like, really hard to get rid of it.
Speaker 2:Do you ever look back and think, actually, we could have picked different partners, or is there just no regrets at that stage?
Speaker 1:No regrets. That that was like any bit. And the thing is, see, because I've now got my head in several different other businesses, and I've had other clients for the last couple of years as well. Like, all businesses are almost, like, one or two decisions away from being in big trouble. Be happier.
Speaker 1:That's an that's an interesting question because that's ultimately it's a subjective thing, isn't it? And I don't there's a lot of people that I see that speak about alcoholism or speak about alcohol, and they say as if people are stupid. This is the poison. Like, we're all putting we're putting poison into our bodies, and I'm like, yeah, crap, man.
Speaker 2:So we are back with the latest episode of the Dadversity Podcast, and I am delighted to be joined by Scott McCulloch. So, Scott, this is an interesting one because when I got in touch with you, I dare say you'd be like, who the hell is this guy? But, interestingly, I've been seeing your content on LinkedIn since, like, probably 2018, 2019 with the launch of the Vegan Kind business. So you it's funny when people post frequently and consistently, you get an idea of who they are, what they're doing, their lifestyle, and everything else. And so it's when you agreed to come on the the podcast, I was really excited to try and learn more about that whole journey actually because it looked like a really interesting one, building the company from home with your wife and being a dad and and everything else.
Speaker 2:But before we get into all that good stuff, what are you doing these days? What's taking up all your time?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean, at the moment, I'm basically freelancers. I work for myself doing digital marketing. I've basically got four separate clients essentially that I do various different types of work for. I said, so I as we'll get on to mean, I had my own business for, like, sort of nine years, but really my passions within that was the digital marketing side of things, and that's where I I I found myself gravitating towards on a daily basis and what I was most interested in. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Post that business, that's what I really wanted to dig my teeth into. So, yeah, essentially, digital marketing, whether that Facebook ads, Google ads, SEO, and also acting as a nonexec director at capacity where I can as well because, yeah, at one point, my business was up to 70 staff and 7,000,000 in revenue. So there's a lot of kind of, like, knowledge gained from going through all of those steps and levels that is replicable in other businesses. So it's I I hate to just take in that knowledge that I've earned over the years and helping where I can with other smaller businesses on that same path. But, yeah, digital marketing, essentially.
Speaker 2:What is it with you, Scott? When you were growing up, were you always on this track, or or were you surrounded by family who were always quite entrepreneurial and focused on business? So because you seem to be you seem to be someone that I don't I get the impression that if you needed to launch something to to generate revenue, you could do it fairly quickly.
Speaker 1:That's actually an interesting topic because I've I've got my eyes on something right now or a few things, to be honest, that I'm really keen on on launching. And, actually, in this particular stage of my life, I'm finding it quite difficult to slot everything in because priorities wise, at the moment, I'm really trying hard to make my own health, wellness number one above all else, gotta be healthy to to be there for everyone else type of thing. When I've got that of a mindset and then in order to stay engaged about being fit and healthy, I'm signing up for different events that I wanna train for, which means the amount of hours that I'm actually training for has ramped up considerably. So I'm, like, trying to get an hour in in the morning, trying to get an hour in at night. So couple of hours a day when you're trying to do that, and then you've got the kids and when you you've got four clients that you're working for, different everybody communicates in different ways, sometimes on WhatsApp, sometimes Teams, sometimes Zoom, sometimes Skype, whatever it may be.
Speaker 1:You know? And then there are different conversations. I actually don't really have so much time. So I've got ideas and things that I want to do, but it's just not as simple as it was going back fifteen years ago when I had no kids or one kid. And any spare time that I had, you could just laser focus in on this thing that you wanted to do and get off the ground.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I'd like to think I'm I'm entrepreneurial and as such as I'm always thinking about what else could I be doing, and definitely my mind is never off in that respect. But, actually, at this kind of stage in my life, trying to get something new off the ground requires a level of sort of time and commitment that, you know, I'm, I guess, maybe struggling to find. But I guess, going back to your point about growing up, I mean, I think to a degree, my dad's probably entrepreneurial and as such as he's self employed musician, had his own businesses, had his own kind of music shop. Still to this day, in his mid seventies, is is able to earn money himself because he's got a talent. So he he goes around nursing homes and plays for the old folks there, and sees he'll be able to generate income himself until very later on in life.
Speaker 1:So I think there's a degree of of entrepreneurialism comes from that. But also very, yeah, even just when I was younger, I was always thinking about how can I make extra money, like, running buses to different nightclubs and things like that because I'd figured out that I could run a bus, maybe charge everyone an extra maybe 10%? So not £30 it might be, but I would be able to charge, say, 33 times a 50 seater bus, plus the nightclub would maybe pay £200 cash on the night for letting the people in. So there was always be bits and bobs that was a weird being able to try and make extra money. And then career wise, I ended up in a job in business banking for RBS for about ten years at RBS, then NatWest, then Worldpay.
Speaker 1:And throughout that period of my career, I was in and out of a different maybe two to four different businesses every single day. So I would see help a company set up their their first bank account and then still be with them, say, four or five years later when they've gone stratospheric and moved out of my portfolio into commercial. Similarly, I'd seen businesses that were in my portfolio when I started. They've been there for five years, and their revenue never changed five years later. So I saw all different types of businesses come and go.
Speaker 1:It was always really exposed to the kind of structures there in it, different business sizes and different levels. And I guess just always thinking in my head, I'm I'm absorbing this information for a rainy day. One one day I will get involved in some, and all of this knowledge will come to fruition. And and ultimately, that is what ended up happening one day when my wife and I set up our own business to be in kind. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of a lot of that sort of mindset about having a business, growing a business was came through being in business banking where
Speaker 2:I was just exposed to it day in, day out. Nice. Love that. Let's talk about the the dynamic of working with a wife. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I I don't think I couldn't do it. I could I do it? I'm not sure. I don't think I could do it. But you seem to have have done a really good job of of managing that balancing family life, and it certainly looks that way from the outside looking in.
Speaker 2:What challenges have you found with that? Is there anything specifically that's come out during the process?
Speaker 1:We we've been really fortunate. So when we and again, that's probably one of the issues I'm actually seeing now in terms of got a couple of business ideas and having been through a business and now thinking I really wanna set something up again, you can have you're aware of maybe how difficult it was first time around and what good looks like now. Whereas when you first set up a business, you're just like, we're just gonna get this thing done and we'll learn on the way. But now you know what bad look like, you know what good look like. You second guess everything you would go to do, but also you realize that you don't really wanna do it on your own.
Speaker 1:You wanna have some good, strong people involved in order to help you get there quicker. But as soon as you then start to involve other people, quite rightly, they'll come with their own opinions about the specific thing that you want them involved for. And, ultimately, they're then deeper, longer conversations, more decision making. Whereas when Karis and I get into business together, we're husband and wife, so we're permanently in contact anyway. Always had a great relationship, great marriage, so we don't really seem to rub each other up the wrong way.
Speaker 1:We don't argue or fight about anything. So decisions were really quick and easy and simple, and it meant that actually when we were at home together, we we could be talking about the business. We were over dinner or first thing in the morning. There was no breaks and comms. We were just, like, full steam ahead and both on the same page.
Speaker 1:She had her kind of interests and aspects within the business that that made it tick, and and so did I as well. So we really came together, like, with two kinda different brains, different skill sets that just harmonized perfectly. And I think we just always felt like that, that there was no crossover, no sort of pain points. We were just, like, on the same page, full steam ahead, a fantastic idea that if executed properly could become something huge and ultimately just I never really seemed to step on each other's toes for the whole nine years that we were in that business together. So I think I'm probably a bit of an outlier in that respect.
Speaker 1:Like, I think a lot of people that go into business with their wife could maybe be the death knell eventually. I don't know. But, yeah, I'm forever grateful for the fact that we've been we are able to work together because I guess even from a
Speaker 2:point of view of running
Speaker 1:a family, running a household, it's really not too different. You're constantly coming up against different opinions and maybe the way you would handle different situations, whether your children or bills getting involved in money and stress levels and all that kind of stuff. And I guess a business is just 10 x that. So if you can go through a business together for nine years, then maybe it brings life at home a bit simpler as well. So, yeah, we're we operate quite well as a team.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Do you know what's interesting is that when you run the when you make that analogy between the
Speaker 1:business and running the family,
Speaker 2:I I totally agree, but it's only been recently where I've actually tried to bring some kind of process and structure into home life because it's just carnage. If you don't have it, you're in a lot of trouble, aren't you?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, and we've got yeah. We run a Google Calendar together with all the different color coded things for child's activities, my stuff, Garrison's stuff, couple of business calendars flow in there as well. So we're we're very aware of what's going on at all times, and we just have to be because we'd see kids, different classes, different things that they're doing at the weekend, parties, all this kind of stuff. It has to be run quite like a business, and I think, yeah, we're probably just quite used to running like that anyway, so it's bled into home life.
Speaker 2:It's it's not the opposite of what people tell you a relationship's
Speaker 1:gonna be.
Speaker 2:Yeah. See, all is
Speaker 1:it when you sat there on
Speaker 2:a Sunday night, and you've got a Google Calendar going, when's it party? When are you doing this school run? When's this happening?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Was it what what you're taught as a relationship will be?
Speaker 1:We've we've actually got a a spreadsheet that we've always had even before The Vegan Kind. We've we've always had a life planner spreadsheet. It's basically like a it's just a a p and l for us in terms of what our incomes and outcomes we've got and probably if they call it nowadays. But, anyway, certainly, but we had one way back when. I don't think any of our friends did.
Speaker 1:But it's just always meant that we've been aware of our finances and maybe stocks, any arguments cropping up or anything like that because we can be aware of when things are very tight or when we've got best spare cash or or saving for a holiday, all these sorts of things rather than running out of any problems all the time. We've we've got a lens on our own cash flow as a as a household at all times.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I was watching a I was doomscrolling on TikTok the other day, and it was talking about this couple who have date nights, but they're, like, budgeting date nights. So we literally get food in and just go through the budget, and they were getting held to us in the comments. Oh, really? Happened by people going, oh, you're full of parties, or I bet your love life is this.
Speaker 2:Know? And they were just getting battered by people in the comments.
Speaker 1:And you can look at
Speaker 2:it and go, it's actually a really obvious, safe thing to do. To live that way is a really healthy thing, especially in a relationship, isn't it? If it's all kind of ad hoc,
Speaker 1:you're in trouble, aren't you? Yeah. At the end of day, it's just about, yeah, having that kind of clarity and, again, being on the same page, really. So it's just management, really. Maybe some people are so wealthy, they don't need to practice sorts of things, or maybe they don't care about chaos, or maybe they're actually on their third wife when I'm a when I'll forever be on my first.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He said that Can we talk about the vegan kind? Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I was looking through some posts again today, but I remember some posts way back. Must have been, like, 02/1819. Packing boxes in the living room, subscription boxes. I remember looking at it going, I should probably test this and subscribe to it.
Speaker 2:And they were just incredible moments, weren't they? When you're telling the story on LinkedIn and you you've opening yourself up and and being all vulnerable and all that sort of stuff on social platforms, like, firstly, the growth was incredible, but where did it start? What was the kind of seed of an idea?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we we set it up in, like, summer two thousand and thirteen, and the kinda story goes. So Carys was more so she'd been like a vegetarian for kinda almost lifelong, and I was a meat eater, and we'd been together for, I don't know, five, six, seven years, whatever it was. And, yeah, I've just been starting to gravitate more and more towards vegetarianism because Carys was always the one that was cooking the food, and I I wasn't, like, demanding meat or whatever. So she would be cooking food, and she would be using, like, meat replacements or whatever.
Speaker 1:So over time, I was like, was I vegetarian? But I wasn't. I was very much still a meat eater. But, yeah, very much, like, open minded and, yeah, to that kind of train of thought. And then ultimately, Karis basically at that point in time had her own YouTube channel and that she used to review beauty products, and she used to receive a subscription box called Glossybox.
Speaker 1:And we'd been talking more and more just about the fact that I was gonna pretty much starting to go vegetarian. And, yeah, Carys was further ahead than me and having already been vegetarian. She was actually starting to consider going going vegan. And then, yeah, one night, we were just sitting in the living room, and Cara just basically said, if there was a subscription box, lofty box that I get for beauty products, she's if there was one of them for vegan products, then that would probably be really helpful to people that wanted to move animal products in their life. And I was just oh my god.
Speaker 1:Like, that is like that's a dynamite idea. So I quickly jumped online and checked, and it was like, there's nowhere in The UK doing this. And then I checked in America, I was like, if someone did it in America, but they only set up a couple of months ago. And then they just told me total dents. I was already heading that way.
Speaker 1:Caris is very much heading that way. And I guess, like I say, I'd I'd already had a lot of business banking background. I was working in ecommerce for Worldpay at the time as well, so I was really exposed to payment gateways and taking payments online, that sort of a thing. And Caris already had this kind of YouTube channel that was for reviewing different beauty products. So we already had a made up audience there, and we had two different skill sets that kinda came together that that seemed really harmonious.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, we just, that night, registered The Vegan Kind Limited. And, yeah, I guess, over time, over this nine year period, it's just grew exponentially year on year until about 7 and a half million in revenue in 2022. About 70 staff during COVID. And, yeah, was a real part of the kind of growth of plant based living and and veganism over that kind of 2013 to 2022 period. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I guess, ultimately, what ended up happening at the end was we ended up going through a series a investment round and brought on investors to the company for the first time, which was brilliant, gave the business very much needed capital that it needed to get post COVID. And then, yeah, 2022, after they'd been involved for a couple of years, Karis and I basically took the opportunity to step away from the business and basically sell our shares to them in order to give them more skin in the game essentially because the business was, to be honest, really struggling at the time. Basically, the the sale revenue had really started to draw post COVID. We were seeing our sales number plummet month on month. Was gonna fight.
Speaker 1:So we were like, the business is gonna need more capital, and we are we don't have the money to put it in. But if you as investors are willing to put more money in, that would be great. Are you? And they basically come back more like, we are, but we're gonna need much more of the company to make this viable for us. So we were like, look.
Speaker 1:We understand. So we basically just, yeah, agreed with them to sell our fares to them at a sort of undisclosed price, not what it could have been, if you like. And it was in order to save the business, really. It was like, we basically were like, look. If we do this, can you categorically confirm that the weekend kind will be safe and that all staff will be safe and there won't be any future problems?
Speaker 1:And that's ultimately the kind of final conversation we had with them, and we essentially stepped down from our roles. I mean, then sit you as a non exec director beyond that point and then essentially handed the company over to them. Yeah. It's a wild ride, 2013 to 2022, but, yeah, we've had, by that point, nine years of sheer graft and running the business like a well, an extra child type of thing, never ever off your mind twenty four seven, three six five. We were just burned out of being there, to be honest, and just happy to have a chance to get out or exit, if you like, because when you're running a business and what people do say this, it's like, you you there is no out there is no exit.
Speaker 1:Like, when you remember the staff, like, if you're not happy with where you are, and that's not to say that people should be unhappy at the work, but if you were ever, like, a fancy change of scenery, you can leave. You can exercise your right to find employment in another place. But when you're a founder in any business, you don't have that opportunity. There literally is no exit. You're basically just, you know, any stress.
Speaker 1:And that's why I think burnout happens because people deal with daily stress, and it's, like, really hard to get rid of it because you literally you don't even feel like you have the opportunity to get out. You don't even feel that you have the opportunity to change career or hold the department lead, whoever, you're literally trapped. So for us in 2022, yeah, we basically were given an opportunity to stand down and to to give these investors the better shareholding, and and and we basically took
Speaker 2:Do you look back at the series a round and think is that's quite a pivotal moment in in the vegan kind, isn't it? Because you needed the cash, you needed the investment. Do you look back at that decision and think if you had continued so low, it would have been over sooner? Obviously, the the drop in in demand for the product. But do you ever look back and think, actually, we could have picked different partners, or is there just no regrets at that stage?
Speaker 1:No regrets. That that was like anybody. And the thing is, see, because I've now got my head in several different other businesses, and I've had other clients for the last couple of years as well. Like, all businesses are almost, like, one or two decisions away from being in big trouble, And that's just life of running your own small business. You're just constantly up against it, things change, and all of a sudden, opportunities are removed.
Speaker 1:Cash flow becomes this overnight issue. So the bean kind needed money several times. We did a seeder's raise at one point, a crowdfunded at one point, and we entered a thing called Scottish Edge where we won $75, 2,017, I think it was. So there was various points at which we were just like, oh my god. What are we gonna do?
Speaker 1:Like, how do we grow to the next level? We need capital. We need cash. But it's it's all just part of the journey. It's really enjoyable to be in that situation when you've got hindsight that you can look back and go, wow.
Speaker 1:Amount of problems that we circumvented as a a business, as a team, as a collective of people was absolutely huge. We just were constantly able to traverse into new waters because we could see opportunities and take them. The the vegan kind existed as one of several of that type of business at that time, but the vegan kind was the one that went to the moon. And I think that a lot of people maybe saw veganism and plant based as a kind of maybe fringe sector, and and the businesses were never really trying to scale and trying to grow, whereas I was always of the mindset that this was this evolutionary change within humanity, whether I was right or wrong, but I always just saw the amount of people that were gravitating towards plant based living was just was happening so vastly that I was like, there's gonna be a business who absolutely is the the front leader in this and take all of their opportunities, manages to raise and sees this continue to grow over the next, say, ten, twenty, thirty years as we as a species, evolutionary almost reduced the amount of consumption that has gone through the roof and skyrocketed in just the last hundred years.
Speaker 1:It's not like we've always lived like this, but it's almost like from 2009 sorry, nineteen hundreds where industrialization and the commoditization of animals, and then they were transported around the world in oil and machinery, and all that kicked in, and all of a sudden, animals went from something you ate once a week to three times a day. And when you look at that blow up over a hundred year period, but it's, of course, the amount of transportation of the animals going into their trillions, that has had a a global impact in the planet as as well as hell. Pressures on the NHS as well as the killing of the animals has gone a thousand fold. So this has all happened in a hundred years, and I really just thought that we were cycling back away from that and that we could be this sort of, like, catalyst for change in that direction. And I still personally hope that that is the trajectory that we're on collectively, but the scene as a whole or the market toward veganism has changed quite dramatically, and it seems to be reversing now.
Speaker 1:There's less and less people going vegan and less products available in the supermarkets and the restaurants. I do hope again. It bounces back again one day.
Speaker 2:It's funny, isn't it? These cycles and trends because the the the trend that I see is just at the moment is protein, get your protein, eat red meat, load of eggs, blah blah blah. It just feels like that's the latest that's the latest eating trend. What's the do you think there's some negative connotations around being vegan? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And this is the thing. It's like debates to be had about everything, whether it's eggs, whether it's dairy in terms of the amount of hormones they could put into cows, amount of vitamins and medicines that they get fed, the sort of factory farm life that they lead before they produce the milk. There are lots of negatives around about the meat and dairy industry, but similarly, there's, you know, a lot around about ultra processed foods within the vegan space. A lot of the plant based meat replacements are quite often cited as having very processed ingredients list, very long ingredients list. So I think across the board, people are just generally looking for a healthier lifestyle now, and there's people that will want to do that by removing animal product from their diet.
Speaker 1:And there's other people that will still be very health minded, but they're not so bothered about whether the animals have dated, they will continue to do it. So there's definitely a negative connotation about it, but I think there's maybe more because of the way veganism could blow up. I think that the more maybe balanced approach to it now, whereas when we set up The Bean King in 2013, it was seen as this kind of, like, weird hippie thing that no one really knew what it was, and maybe it was a strange outlook on life that people didn't really understand, and you would have been weird if you did that. Certainly, think over that ten year period, perception has changed. Obviously, a lot of top athletes are plant based, follow a plant based diet.
Speaker 1:Loads of studies came out of World Health Organization cited that a predominantly plant based diet is the recognized advised diet for optimal human health. So there's loads and loads of studies happened and loads of change happened that I don't think there's so much of a negative perception towards it now, but I think it's almost, like, stabilized in terms of the growth of it, like it was just growing. And I think partly that's part of the to do with the cost of living crisis 2022. Good prices went through the roof, affordability went through the floor, and ultimately, people just were less likely to spend additional pounds on basic necessities such as food. And veganism is seen as a more expensive option because it's not subsidized like the meat and dairy industry is.
Speaker 1:So therefore, any actual raw material costs that were being seen because of the cost of war in Ukraine and oil and things like that, they were directly added into the food, and there was no getting away from it. So they're dead. Sort of price war that was happening between the cost of a real burger and the cost of a plant based burger was always there. It was seeded more expensive, but it was getting closer and closer. There was always the argument that actually if a if a meat beef burger didn't have the subsidies, it was actually 10 times the price of a plant based burger because it gets phenomenal amount of money pumped into it.
Speaker 1:But, anyway, that gap was closing anyway. You were starting to see a plant based burger become as close to a meat based burger. But when the ingredient price went through the roof, all of a sudden, that gap started growing again, and all those products started to seem really expensive and therefore maybe less appealing or people just couldn't afford them. So there's definitely that there was a big impact, I think, on the amount of people that were vegan or or were going vegan. And again, maybe that'll come back down again once prices kinda normalize, but many wars in the world going on.
Speaker 1:I was nervous to see if that will happen in the the near term.
Speaker 2:Feels that way. It definitely feels that way. So shares have have been sold. You and Carys have got a bit of breathing space again to relax after feeling all working. Your face is up for ten years on this thing.
Speaker 2:And then you went you're really interesting. You went into, like, full blown Ironman, literally full blown Ironman mode. Like, you you decided to go sober, Ironman, triathlons, marathons, half marathons, ultramarathon, skydiving.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I guess I've just I I saw a lot of that is just to do with the age that I'm at. So, basically, I'm 42, and I guess I'd always I've always, like, loved drinking and partying and, like, just that's just lifestyle that I guess a lot of folk live, but you get to to your twenties and and your thirties, and you're just like, oh, man. I'm not so happy maybe with the amount that I'm drinking now, but and and but nights out become less frequent, so you're just drinking in the house more. And some people seem to be to get control over that and have a really good balance, but I would say that I didn't.
Speaker 1:I just would drink maybe three to four nights a week, every week. And I guess a lot
Speaker 2:of my
Speaker 1:friends do and all those people that do. I didn't see it as problematic because it was never problematic in my life. In some respects, it was never problematic with my relationships with my wife or my children. I actually have got up at 5AM on a week morning now for, like, over ten years, so I've always had that good structure in my life. So I was in my head be able to be like, yeah, I drink a lot of nights, but I still get up at 5AM during the week.
Speaker 1:But ultimately, was almost like a a really bad habit that I was like I would be four nights a week is essentially drinking pattern of if you think you're see, you drink I'm I would always drink on a Friday, and then I'm always drinking on Saturday just do this the weekend. Why not? But because I drank two nights in a row, I'll not drink on a Monday. And then because I didn't drink on a Monday, I'm probably gonna drink on a Tuesday. And then I would probably not drink on a Wednesday because Bert will alternate things, which means I'm gonna drink on a Thursday.
Speaker 1:But then if you end up drinking on a Thursday, and I'm definitely gonna drink on a Friday or Saturday, I just I ended up on this pattern where I was just like, wait a minute. I'm I'm always drinking. I would drinking to me would be if I'm opening up a bottle of wine, I would never put the lid back on it, but I would never feel like I was walking about the place drunk. So I would maybe open it at, say, I don't know, like, 08:00 at night when the kids are down or whatever, and I would maybe finish it at, say, like, eleven. So drink, like, a bottle of wine over a three hour PD.
Speaker 1:I never really felt that drunk, but some nights, say, the weekend, it would be a bottle of wine plus a few beers, plus a whiskey. And, ultimately, when I was reaching 40, I was very conscious of that I wanted to have this big epiphany, this life change at 40. I was like, I need this. I hope I feel that I've got the strength and the courage to make the life changes that I want because I'm sick of drinking this much, and I don't really take my fitness seriously. And I'd always remember when my cousin's husband, he'd say, big kind of cyclist, and I always used to say to him when I was in my thirties, I'm just not into it.
Speaker 1:Don't know. Maybe I will be one day, and he was like, I was always the same until I turned 40. And I always resonated with me. I thought, okay. Am I gonna have this big life change when I hit 40?
Speaker 1:As I was getting closer to 40, I was, like, hoping it was gonna happen. Was like, I really hope this change happens because I don't want to still be in this situation when I'm 50. Because if I'm gonna make life changes, I can make them at 40 and spend that decade bedding them in, and maybe I'll drink again one day. If I don't sort out now and I get to 50, I don't think I'll make those changes at 50. I think I'll just be who I am for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:So I was like, when I turn 40, I've got to make these changes. So I turned 40 in the October, and I didn't manage to stop drinking at that point in time, But I was drinking all the way through the October or the November, the December, and I just had my eye on January going, I need to get control over this. So I was like, I'm gonna do dry January. When January 1 came, I woke up and I'm like, wait. I said, definitely dry January and posted about it.
Speaker 1:And and I think that's a a good thing for anybody to do in terms of any life changes to just hold yourself accountable by posting about it on social media. As dumb as it may sound, as tinier than what it is as you might have. It's just set something in the mind that you really mean it. So, yeah, I said I was gonna do dry January. And then as when I got to the end of dry January, I fell, but constantly thinking about going back to drinking because the month would be over.
Speaker 1:So I was always conscious of that feeling and how I would handle it. So when it got to the end of it, no. I'm not ready to go back drinking. Yeah. I can't do this.
Speaker 1:So I was like, I'm gonna do one year, no beer. I was like, I need to commit to this. And I thought, but if I go and do one year, no beer, what's gonna keep me on the wagon? And I was like, I need to have something to keep me on the straight and narrow. And it was then I basically signed up for an Ironman.
Speaker 1:I was like, if I sign up for something that was so big and scary that I have to focus on my fitness that I have no opportunity to drink because I'm so determined to complete this event that hopefully will keep me on the straight and narrow. So, yeah, basically signed up for Ironman seventy point c in Barcelona that October 2022. And, yeah, basically, the DAPA. Essentially, the pattern of, yeah, just speaking into reality that I was doing dry January, then making sure that I I moved on to one year and I'll be here, but making sure that I had a challenge to stick to and that my fitness was becoming first and foremost. And that that's essentially the path I've been on since.
Speaker 1:I'm now I've not drank in something like I think it's twenty three months it'll be in the December 1. And, yeah, just a whole big life change. I'm just running, cycling, and swimming all the time, and I probably am doing that instead of drinking. So I've heard from something really unhealthy to something really healthy. Be happier.
Speaker 1:That's an that's an interesting question because that's ultimately it's a subjective thing, isn't it? And I don't there's a lot of people that I see that speak about alcoholism or speak about alcohol, and they say as if people are stupid, this is a poison. Like, we're all putting we're putting poison into our bodies, and I'm like, oh, crap, man. Like, it's it may be, but if you've got it under control and if you don't have an issue with it, put as much poison in your body as you bloody want. It's a free society.
Speaker 1:So I don't I think you could be someone that was drinking as much as me or more than me. In fact, I know people that drink more than that, and you don't have a problem with it. Absolutely fine. I also know people that drink way less than I was, and they'd felt this need to get it under control way before I did. So if when it becomes a problem to you is when you should sort your drinking out, and that's why I probably don't necessarily try and tie happiness to the alcohol because actually, in some respects, some of the besties of my life were drinking.
Speaker 1:There's no two ways about it. When I look back on all my best memories, I was absolutely steaming. I never had a problem with alcohol terms of being aggressive or fell out with people, any of these things. Like, I literally loved my drinking years. I guess what had changed was I was still drinking that much, but I'm now drinking at home.
Speaker 1:I've got a wife that barely drinks, and I've got three kids, And I'm like, to think myself as quite irresponsible, so I was looking at it going, nah. If you calculate all those bottles of wine that were drank over the last year, Scott, and beer and the whiskey and whatever, how many of them were for a special occasion? Say three. How many of them were in the house? The other 99% of them.
Speaker 1:How many of them did carry a string with you? Hardly any. Something like So I sat myself and drank all that alcohol in a house with three young kids running about, and I and I just tried to go and moan, and I was like, that's unacceptable. So that from from that perspective, that's what kinda caused it, but I do look back on my thinking years, and and there was a lot of happiness in there. So I can't say that I'm happier now, but I've definitely got more control over my life.
Speaker 1:And I feel happier that I don't have something controlling me because I guess that's what addiction feels like when you're a smoker. It's constant, actually, like, among the fagging. You're like, oh, don't I know why I'm doing this. When alcohol had begun to feel like that for me, just this thing I do all the time, and I tell myself I don't want to do it, and I can't seem to stop. And a lot of it was just circumstantial or pattern drinking.
Speaker 1:And I never felt like an alcoholic per se, but it was this itch, this constant itch that I had. So I'm definitely happier that is not there, and I've never ever been fitter or healthier in my life for fear. Love that. What was the best memory? Woah.
Speaker 1:Best memory thinking. God.
Speaker 2:Time machine. You can go back to one one night.
Speaker 1:One particular night? Oh god. I really don't know if I could. For example, though, like, one of the last sort of big sort of events that I went to that I I put on a bus. It was an event called Time Warp in Mannheim in Germany.
Speaker 1:It's like a techno event. And that was, like, I don't know, maybe 30 of us went over the three day event. You couldn't go with that and all we're thinking. So that was amazing. But even little things, like, I was actually looking the other day, like, I've got a YouTube video that myself and my now 12 year old, nearly 13 year old daughter did maybe five, six years ago.
Speaker 1:So she was maybe, like, I don't know, seven years old, and we did that on a Saturday afternoon. I was just showing her bit, like, video editing, and we made a little YouTube video, and it was where we reviewed an LOL doll. And then it was me just chasing Casey around the garden, and I added some text at the start, and then we set up a camera in the kitchen, and it was just me and her at the dinner table, And we were opening it up and making them play and all this kind of stuff. It's just that we we never ever did anymore, but I think at the time, she was one of YouTube channel or whatever. Anyway, so we just did that for about fun, but I'll look back at that video, and I it was late at 04:00 on a Saturday afternoon or something, and I remember I'd had, like, kind of brutal punk IPA before we did it.
Speaker 1:But in loads of respects, that's why on camera, I was really, like I was I was in a great frame of mind. We had so much fun in that video. So, again, I don't wanna demonize demonize alcohol. Like, it's really problematic. It's because it it can add a lot of value.
Speaker 1:I can be a place so deluxe or all these types of things that make you make you more fun, make certain situations more enjoyable. And but, yeah, I would say in general, like, I've I've always enjoyed drinking. I've always enjoyed being a drinker, and that's why I'm never ruling it out. I'll I'll go back to it one day because I look forward to future happy memories involving it. It's just that for this particular period of my life, it wasn't right for me, and I wanted to be able to get under control quite deeply.
Speaker 1:I was always thinking about it. It was always on my mind. I didn't have control over it. And now that I do, I better headspace because of that. But, yeah, happiness definitely kinda coming from Brink as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Do you know what? I really I love the balance within that in terms of the appreciation of the balance that you have for it
Speaker 1:because I think
Speaker 2:there's been quite a big shift actually. See lots of younger people talking about being sober. And, actually, there are this cohort of people in the world who probably try really hard to do it, and they really do have some form of addiction and disease around it, and they're struggling. And I think it's important that we find that balance, have these honest conversations around actually what it was like and after the event as well, because some people are. I think some people flaunt the sober tag as almost a bit of a PR remarks and exercise at times.
Speaker 2:I see some people don't face challenges in the early twenties, and you and I know in our in our age group, Jesus, you were barely sober for between 18 and 25, were you? It was just that was the culture, wasn't it? Was just relentless drinking Thursday, Saturday night. And, yeah, I think it's interesting that the the shift now is wild. But
Speaker 1:I think it's tough I think it's tough for young folk growing up now. This is a game when I'm trying not to to my 30 year old daughter, 13, a couple of weeks. I'm trying not to I don't want her to although it's a positive thing, I don't want her to grow up and think that she needs to be sober, for example, because some of the days of her life might involve drinking. However, if she decided never to drink, then that's absolutely fine, but I'm absolutely not pushing her down that. I'm not one of these guys of Keith.
Speaker 1:Look what I'm doing. Is this poison that you put in your body? Absolutely not. What I'm I'm showing the I like to think that I'm showing my kids that if it ever gets too much for them, if they ever get to a point whereby they feel that they have to change, they have to make a big midlife change or whatever, that that it can be done or maybe they can ask me about it or whatever. I don't know.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, I definitely don't want to demonize it because I think kids nowadays with social media and I'm like that, and I sort of, like, desire to be perfect. And it's really tough, and it's like you don't I don't want them to be under any more pressure than they already are from society. Like, a lot of kids now probably are shunning alcoholism because they don't want to be seen on TikTok in a state or on Instagram or whatever getting videoed when they're not at their best. So it's it's tough enough for them growing up.
Speaker 2:Pretty glad we didn't have that stuff when we were 21, by the way.
Speaker 1:No. Absolutely not. No. I know. I it's it's it's a really hard environment to grow up.
Speaker 1:And my daughter now, she's at secondary school as well, and that's a whole other ballgame as well. Like, when you think of it back in the day, if you've got a problem at school and might be probably social issues going on or whatever, but when you leave, you go home, you take a chance to forget about it, play your computer, play Mario Kart, whatever, and then go back to school the next day. And the issue might be there or it might not, but at least you've put it down and picked it back up again the next day. Now when they leave that school, before she could even go out to the car, they've been message about it. The the thing, it just never stops.
Speaker 1:So issues are just constantly in motion. Different friend groups communicating with each other, different societal problems getting bad about, like, people saying that, and it's just it's it's relentless. Casey doesn't necessarily know any different, and maybe my parents would have said the same about me and the way I grew up with different technology issues or whatever. They'll all be fine, and it's just the life that they've become accustomed to, and it's absolutely fine. But I guess for us looking on now that what they've got to contend with, like, getting messaged on Snapchat and Instagram and WhatsApp and feed all these things happen, they see different friend groups and all that.
Speaker 1:It's a crazy world at the moment for them.
Speaker 2:Oh, dude. We were lucky we just MSM Messenger and all the old dialogue, weren't we? We're fortunate. Scott, I wanna challenge you. I've got some quick fire questions.
Speaker 2:Okay? We end with all of these. They're very random and courtesy of chat GPT, actually. Hold on to your hat. Morning person or night, Al?
Speaker 1:Morning person. Always. Since I got taught about the power of such a cliche, but, like, 5AM club, just those two hours between 5AM and 7AM when I properly got that explained to me, and I managed to go from being an absolute night owl, but never a fan of the mornings, to forcing myself to get up at that time in the morning. I've never dropped it in the last ten years, I never will. Love it.
Speaker 2:Okay. Tough one. Describe fatherhood in one word. Joyous. Nice.
Speaker 2:Love it. Worst DIY fail?
Speaker 1:Oh, in this new build house where and at the moment, I was putting up a shelf in the kitchen and used the drill bit that you would ordinarily use for wood that's got the spike on the end of it, which I now know you would never do this, and through the wall, and I went straight into a plastic pipe behind it and water was. So, yeah, apparently, if you use a cement drill bit with the the rounded head on it, that's why they use plastic pipes. They just they'll move out the way of that drill bit. It will move out of the way. But when you use a a wooden one, it's got a spike on it.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have a chance to be rid the bee. You just briefly hit right into it and drill right through it.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's not ideal. What is the best place you
Speaker 1:ever traveled to? Oh, best place I've ever traveled to. My favorite place in the world I've ever been was San Francisco. Nice. Why?
Speaker 1:So me and three of my best mates, basically, when we finished uni, we took our final student loan payment, couple of credit cards each, and just basically went to America for three months. We flew into Orlando and then basically went around the entire coast of America on an Amtrak rail pass for three solid months. No jobs. No cash, really. No idea.
Speaker 1:Just in and out of different hostels. And, yeah, usually, that are traveling in those situations are solo travelers. So we're meeting all these solo travelers, but we were a team of four everywhere we went. So we were, like, carry out in hand, tunes on the go, and just had the absolute time of our lives. And out of all of the places that we went, the place that just was the most magical that I just had an all family connection with, that I just love being there, was was San Francisco.
Speaker 1:Love that. Love that.
Speaker 2:And one final one. We've got a time machine, and you know everything that you know today. What stage of life are you gonna go back to?
Speaker 1:No. I wouldn't go back. I wouldn't go back. I would I'm happy now.
Speaker 2:Incredible. Love it. Scott, thank you so much for that. It's been a real pleasure to have you. It's been good to see your journey on on LinkedIn as well unfolding through all the vegan kind years and now into your consulting advisory period.
Speaker 2:It's been really good to learn more about the story. So thank you so much. Alright? Cool. Cheers, Nathan.
Speaker 2:Dads, it is Nathan, and we are heading towards December. What a year, It's been very busy and moving at real pay. 20 odd lessons now inside of the Diversity community. Anything from relationship to business, careers, finance advice. There is a lot going on, and there's been a lot of content that's been pumped into the Dadversity community for you to hopefully go and learn the frameworks and tackle some of the challenges in your life.
Speaker 2:We've got so much more coming up in 2025. We've got more lessons every single week. We have got a bunch of new podcasts coming, and we are launching a lifestyle podcast. We are gonna be out in the field with a videographer bringing you entertaining content alongside some of the more serious educational stuff. Huge thanks for listening.
Speaker 2:Really happy that you're part of the journey, and we will see you very soon.