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Welcome to UNDER 30, the podcast series by the EU-Council of Europe youth partnership that brings research results, explores trends in young people's lives and themes relevant for youth policy and practice.
The EU-CoE youth partnership is a co-operation programme between the European Commission and the Council of Europe in the field of youth, created in 1998, connecting youth research, policy and practice.
T-kit 3 on project management
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Dariusz: [00:00:00]
Welcome to the next episode of Under 30 podcast of the EU-Council of Europe Youth Partnership. Today it's a special day.
We are going to talk about T-Kit three on project management. The first edition of the t-Kit was published in 2000, so it has been 26 years. And now we have the new edition. A lot of things have changed. Some things probably stayed the same, and let's discover what's changed, what stayed the same.
But before we are going to do that, I would like our guests to introduce themselves. We can maybe start with Mara.
Mara: Yes. Hello everyone. My name is Mara Georgescu. I work for the European Youth Foundation of the Council of Europe. I was also one day a project coordinator, so I'm very happy to be involved in this podcast.
Sebastian: [00:01:00] Hello, my name is Sebastian Schweitzer and I'm one of the editors and co-authors of this new T-Kit. Other than that, I'm a freelance consultant in the youth sector and beyond, and I'm very happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Dariusz: We are happy as well. Tanya, you are very well known to our listeners, but maybe there are some new listeners, so they will probably have to know who you are.
Tanya: So I am Tanya. I am part of the youth partnership team, and I have been coordinating the production of this T-Kit. And I'm very happy that we have reached this point. As you Darek mentioned the first edition of this T-Kit was published in 2000, and actually that is the year when the T-Kit series was started.
Now we are at a reputable number of 15 published T-Kits, and we are constantly renewing. So this is one of the, one of the first T-Kits. So number three. And, [00:02:00] we're very happy to be able to bring a new edition, a second edition, but to me this is really a new, completely new T-Kit. 26 years ago, maybe , we were not concerned about certain areas that impact project management, and especially youth projects.
We weren't talking about digital technology, anything to do with social networks, internet, and all these new tools. And now even artificial intelligence. We were not talking so much about mental health and wellbeing. We hadn't gone all together through a global pandemic. We were not talking about other aspects that this T-Kit is addressing quite well and interestingly. We still wanted to bring this T-Kit to the carriers of youth projects. So it is for youth project leaders, project [00:03:00] Initiators, for groups of young people who want to launch themselves into project development. It is probably a tool that will be supporting or improving knowledge for those organizations that have quite good systems in place, but certainly for beginners, for project leaders, for educators and trainers in the youth field.
Hopefully this manual will be a very important support tool. Perhaps I will let Sebastian, as one of the editors and authors to speak more on the content, on the structure and so on. But from the youth partnership side, I'm, I'm really very happy that we're able to bring refreshed knowledge that really it is not something that we develop, but it's something that the field has developed over 26 years and that we have structured it in an easy to use way, and hopefully, this task-based approach that the editors chose [00:04:00] to present in this T-Kit will be handy and will be helpful. I'm also very happy that we have the European New Foundation in this podcast episode. We have never had the Youth Foundation speak in the podcasts and I think it's very important that they have other interaction chances with the youth sector, especially to audiences that sometimes are more following EU policy. But they follow youth partnership because we see this intersection between the two organizations. So I look forward to the discussions.
Dariusz: Thank you Tanya for this introduction, setting a little bit the background of our discussion. You already mentioned what is different, but we'll explore it more because it's not only the topics that are different in the, in the T-Kit. So, but let's start with the basics, because maybe there are people who have never heard about T-Kit. Maybe we can explain what it is. You already said who it is for, but what it is conceptually. And this one specifically is about [00:05:00] project management. So it'd be also good to have a little bit of orientation how does this youth project management differ from any other kind of project management? Sebastian, maybe we start with you explaining what the T-Kit is because you are one of the co-authors, so you know a lot. And, then maybe we go to discussion about the differences between the youth project and any other project, the youth project management.
Sebastian: Yeah. Thank you Dariusz, a very good question. And most likely, really the to go question in the beginning, what, what is this T-Kit about? What is it? And Tanya already said who it is for, I cannot agree more yet is for young people, those starting off with their first projects that they're managing. In essence, I think what we really wanted to do with this T-Kit is to provide an introduction to youth project management, on how people, project managers, inexperienced project managers [00:06:00] are managing projects for, with and by young people. So it's about some theoretical aspects are like, what is a project, what is management, what is the role of project managers that we are exploring from a theoretical perspective, but then shifting very quickly to the practical, how to actually do use project management, through providing tools, advices a lot of examples, and as well, highlighting what can possibly go wrong and providing tailor madesuggestions on how to deal with these challenges.
I think that's the T-Kit in a nutshell for me.
Dariusz: Okay, Mara. How relevant is this T-Kit for your work as the representative fromEuropean Youth Foundation, which is a grant donor organization, but also an organization that is having an oversight of what is happening and supporting also youth organizations from the educational [00:07:00] perspective.
Mara: Yes. Thank you for the question. I should also say that when the T-Kit was being revised, I was also checking it, I'm, I think I'm called a reviewer. So, while I didn't contribute to it necessarily, I sometimes raised questions around, well, is this for young people? Would they understand? Would it be suitable for their kind of engagement, youth engagement?
Is this not too complicated? So, and I think this, this is very much the work we do in the foundation is to work with what we call youth led organizations. So associations of young people that can be very variety from very small to, well, relatively big I would say. But what is very specific is that this, in most cases, we are talking about project coordinators that are young themselves that have well big ambitions to change different things in different causes and to be a voice for different kind of rights or democratic issues. So for us, this [00:08:00] T-Kit will be a little bit like a gold thing because it'll be definitely very useful. We wanted to give for a long time, and we're doing different things. We wanted to give some, some tools because we know in the youth sector and especially in youth organizations people learn by doing, very often about getting engaged in something because you like it or because your friends are there or because you are very connected to a cause and then all of a sudden you need to organize activities, report back, sometimes even manage finances. So you are faced with a lot of things where other people help you. But I think this toolkit is really to, give additional tools where in the community where you are or in the organization, you're where you are, you might not have them. So we will definitely promote it to the youth organizations because I think this is qualitative work and it's quality beyond what you can find in the, you [00:09:00] know, huge array of information, digital tools can provide. And it's kind of targeted and tailored to a real situation of young people in a context. So it's, it's really very, very precious and we will be very happy to promote it.
Dariusz: Thank you Mara. I'm coming back to my question before, what makes a youth project different from any kind of project and how it is kind of reflected in a T-Kit?
Tanya: I can start by, maybe anecdotally referring to the drafting process because after I think a first draft, I wrote back to the editors and said, so what, how is this different, why is it special for the youth sector? And in there, I think at least some aspects of cultural sensitivities, culture, which really deals with these intercultural aspects, but also youth participation are some of the key dimensions that we're dealt deeper into.
Of course, there is always [00:10:00] many aspects that can be dealt with, but specifically, looking at what makes youth sector important, what makes youth sector different? And youth participation, I would say is a feature, and sometimes it's the main objective, but other times it really is a method to reach out goals that Mara was referring to human rights related or changing something in the community and so on.
And, I would say that also what makes this T-Kit quite particularly adapted to the youth sector, is that it deals with themes that young people are concerned with. So we could have easily said, let's focus more on the budgeting aspects, or let's focus more on building organizations. But that was not the objective of this T-Kit.
This T-Kit is to help. Those groups of enthusiastic young people, who want to develop and implement something of good quality to give them the tools and something [00:11:00] very simple. So I encourage Sebastian, maybe to explain a little bit more on the, the approach they chose, which was simple, task-based, easy to follow, and certain.
Sebastian: Expanding a little bit on what Tanya just said, I mean, for us, a youth project is a project that fundamentally involves young people. And, and we speak about three different dimensions. It'sa youth project for, with and by young people, for the benefits of young people, as Tanya said, and for the benefits of the community to which Mara and Tanya refer to is fundamentally important. But what distinguishes it from projects that are not youth projects that benefits the community is for us, we have a dimension of young people who are the target group of a youth project. That is for. We have another dimension that is young people are involved as consultant, expert, support, [00:12:00] taking on specific roles that is youth project project with young people. And then we have, and that is what Mara and Tanya so beautifully highlighted that the European Youth Foundation works with primarily that is youth projects by young people. Young people being the responsible project managers, the ones driving the project, leading it often, and sole responsibility if they're coming from youth led organizations. Yeah. And In all three of these dimensions, the for, the width, and the by, we are speaking about learning and development of young people. And that's a distinctive factor from other aspects, from other types of projects. Because if we have young people as a target group, they're directly the ones that are improving.
If we have young people who are organizing, implementing, doing the project, in responsible positions, they are also learning through [00:13:00] that process and they're growing. So this learning dimension, I think is very essential for a youth project in the perspective of the T-Kit. It is explored in the chapter where we speak about youth participation and meaningful involvement of young people.
Mara: I would like to, well already echo what, what Sebastian and Tanya said. I think this aspect of learning and doing, it's, it's really quite specific. The young people are the heart of what makes a youth project special. First of all, I would like to add maybe a couple of dimensions, which I think are also very well addressed in the toolkit is the fact that the sector is also a sector where there's a lot of what we would call maybe management turnover. So there are a lot of people coming and going, well, we all also don't grow younger, so at some point there is a natural turnover. So I think having tools that can be transmitted to new people is really [00:14:00] valuable, but it is true that many youth projects, I mean, we see this also in the applications we fund who develops the idea who runs it and who evaluates it are often other people not the same. And then there's also an element of context and with the risk of being a little bit pessimistic here, but it's also a sector, the youth sector where youth projects happen, where resources are not that vast. So there is this big effort to, to really mobilize different elements of resources, and I say resources, I don't want to say money because as the toolkit very nicely puts it, it's more than money. It's about the people, it's about the time, the spaces, et cetera. So,there's also this, I think, a little bit of a struggle there in the youth project specifically to mobilize resources.
Dariusz: Thank you. I thinkit was very important to clarify it and highlight those very [00:15:00] different aspects of youth project. You mentioned very often this aspect of participation as one of the crucial one, and this is very much also highlighted in the T-Kit.
We know that this participation can be very different when it comes to project management in, in the youth youth project. So,I would like to ask you how is it tackled in the T-Kit and also ask you the question about how these young project managers, because it's for young people, really empower young people, other young people in decision making across different project stages.
How the T-Kit actually supports these young project managers in that?
Sebastian: Yeah, very good question. Again, I like it. And I think how project managers, young or old, since we have both very often in, in project as it was [00:16:00] already said, how they're best supporting young people to get involved and participate and and take part in project management isa key question.
You're right. Absolutely. And what we are trying to highlight in the T-kit is that, bring in young people if you want to do it together with other young people or if you are a season project manager, bring them in as early as possible. So that ideation is already done with young people. In the best case by young people.
Yeah. But we have to reflect. The reality is young people are doing projects together with young people and together with adults. And that's not bad at all, neither. We are not saying that. Yeah. So early involvement is key to it, is defining clear roles and responsibilities of [00:17:00] young people, meaningful roles is very essential, to avoid any kind of just tokenism that might be there. And what is really, really important if we see that the young people that are getting involved and they're new to project management, in youth project in general, that it is the task of the project manager to enable these young people to have the right competencies, the right capacities. So it's, again, I'm referring back to the learning dimension.
It has to be actively supported. So provide training, provide advice, tell the young people like, okay, if you want to do this or that, then we might want to give you a little tailor made training before so that you feel comfortable in handling the task. And then also support throughout the process, through mentoring, coaching, [00:18:00] any other type of support that you can provide to help them to actually feel that they can handle all the difficulties that are coming across a project implementation process. So I think these are key elements that we're trying to put forward in the T-Kit and provide advices for how to do.
Dariusz: Mara maybe you want to add something because European Youth Foundation actually supports young people in the youth organizations on these different stages of project development and implementation, especially.
Mara: Yes, indeed. I think in the kind of organizations we work with many of the things that Sebastian already mentioned are extremely important. For example, we do encourage organizations all the time to develop this ownership of the young people from A to Z, even on those tasks that may not be so interesting and exciting because, I mean [00:19:00] one part of project management, which is more, a little bit more management than project doing is really to also handle things that are a little bit administrative, for example. And when you deal with a grant, reporting and so on, but I think this still T-Kit helps to make that a youth friendly process. We also encourage youth organizations and project coordinators or whatever they are called in different contexts, not to work alone to actually always think of engaging other young people that may continue. So it's always a process of while you are doing the project, to think already a little bit for what you leave behind towards other young people.
So to cultivate talents if the young people have a certain passion, and to involve them in those tasks for which they feel there's meaning, as Sebastian was saying, but also they feel excited to do it, because many, many times it's also about [00:20:00] working with volunteers. And I think there's this aspect of well, dedication to a cause, but also that volunteers should not be exploited.
So, there should be a meaningful balance around everyone's interest and of course, the greater good, which is what, what projects want to achieve. So for us in the European Youth Foundation, we really encourage everyone to actually work also with new young people to get them on board. For example, what we do, we also onboard different project teams.
We actually tell them, guys, let's talk to each other. Let's have an online meeting. Tell us where you are and we will try to help you also understand, for example, us as a donor where we are in this ecosystem of project management where basically we are supporting through, through grants. But I think there's this aspect of having more tools to bring people on board and to feel like I can do it. It's not that hard. I'm not going to fail because I think there's also this fear of failing, which deals also with then the connection to the mental health of people [00:21:00] implementing projects and so on. So, I think the toolkit helps in this. And I think our intention in the youth sector is always to say, look, think about other people, spread the word, help others do it, have this, what we call multiplier effect, a little bit terminology that we use, in the sense that whatever you do in a project today, people who are involved in whatever role, be it participant be it, you know, helpers, they can do also themselves more tomorrow.
So there's this empowering aspect of that.
Dariusz: I think it's very, very crucial because, especially when you're doing your first project as a young person, this can be very intimidating at first when you hear this project management. And I guess that the T-Kit can demystify a little bit or support young people to understand. Yeah, there are probably some boring parts or not that exciting parts, when it comes to project management, but all in all, it contributes to what we are actually delivering, what we are doing. You mentioned at the beginning that there are new topics, as Tanya mentioned, some of them. If you can [00:22:00] say a few words, what is your approach to these new topics? You said the T-Kit is very practical. What does it mean it's practical?
Tanya: Actually, I just wanted to add to what Sebastian and Mara were talking about this importance of encouraging experimentation, trial learning together. I remember in the T-Kit there is a description of the roles and tasks of the project manager. And, the first time I read it, it's very complex.
It's like a super person. And then we discussed and we said no one says that all this has to be carried by one person. And it's important that we specify and that we actually explain in the T-Kit that these can be shared, divided, people can learn from each other. You can build on the strengths ofpeople in a group.
And that has been the spirit of how we thought of actually making this T-Kit [00:23:00] useful for youth sector, for young people, for youth groups.
Sebastian: It has been very important for us from the, from the beginning to look not only at what project management is, what is it specifically for youth projects, and then going through the project cycle, and describing what are the essential tasks that need to be performed and what tools we have for doing ideation, resource mobilization, implementation and evaluation and follow up. But we also thought like there is specifically for youth project, there is like a wider kind of context that makes a difference for the youth project and actually we identified six aspects that make a difference if a youth project is good or super good. If these things are really considered well, we picked those ones by looking at, hmm, [00:24:00] if we speak about a youth project, we need obviously to have youth participation in, right? So, we thought, okay, so a central element in all youth projects is how to involve young people and ensure their meaningful participation. So we said this has to be one topic that we really have to dedicate space to because it's fundamental. Then we explored other topics which we figure are very important because they play a big role in young people's lives or they play a big role in nowadays communities. And we came up with environmental sustainability, which is a big topic for young people and a big topic, not only for them, but for the whole communities, for the whole globe, fundamentally. So we thought, okay, youth projects, modern youth projects, they have to consider environmental sustainability. They have to be eco-friendly if they [00:25:00] want to be meaningful for young people and for us all on planet Earth. Then another aspect that we figured, really relevant, and Tanya already mentioned that before, is culture and cultural sensitivity. We have many, many youth projects taking part in really diverse context and settings. So, that to be considered, not only for international projects, but also often for local projects where we work with young people or where young people work within mixed communities. Another aspect that we figured that is really, really important, and also that has already been mentioned is wellbeing because the T-Kit has been also developed against the COVID crisis that we all had, the pandemic that kept everybody on hold for quite some time. And, last but not least, we speak about digital [00:26:00] tools because they have changed how youth projects are managed fundamentally over the past 25 years, if we look back at the first T-Kit where I think we are not really speaking about digital tools and nowadays they're so present in so many different ways, from social media that is there to AI and to all the little tools that we can use for managing projects in a very efficient way.
Yeah. We looked at important aspects for young people. Current reality is to say, well, these things need to be addressed and they will make a difference for the effect, the impact, and the meaningfulness of the youth project.
Dariusz: Thank you. We are coming to the end of this, of this recording. So yes, the T-Kit is published. The T-Kit is practical. There are of practical tools, templates that can be usedin the project management in different phases of the project implementation. I would like to, to end up with [00:27:00] the question to three of you.
And I'm looking for a piece of advice or a piece of guidance, for a young person that is planning their first youth project. What would be this advice from you on the basis maybe of the T-Kit or maybe on the basis of your experience?
Mara: Yes. I'll use a little bit of both in my advice and with the risk of quoting communication campaign by different companies, but I would really say just do it. I think if there is a will, there will be a way, in the sense of even if the maybe first experience is not what's in 30 years you would see as the perfect project or the perfect youth project,
if something like this even exists, it's so important when young people have a will to do something that they can do it, with its imperfection, you know, you can fail forward and learn a lot and discover the world and make it a better place. I would say my first piece of advice would be just do it. And the second would be to [00:28:00] find a community that can help, which could be other young people that maybe have done more, which could be different tools, which could also be getting a little bit of training by different institutions, organizations, and, and so on. So, don't end up alone, with all the potential stress that the project can bring, but really find, find joy into sharing, sharing tasks as the project management T-Kit says it also very nicely. And, and really find a community of support.
Sebastian: Yeah, I think there's not much to add. Just do it and do it together with others. I think that's, that's the best two advices. And, I would maybe just add, don't let yourself be held back by skeptics that tell you that it's too complicated, that's not possible. Project management is no rocket science. It's possible and you can do it.
Tanya: And from myself, I would say that this is a great resource, so use it to the maximum. And [00:29:00] don't forget that it's not only the youth sector that holds all the knowledge. So in the community, there's always someone who can advise and support. From the youth partnership side, we're very happy to have this as part of a series of toolkits that are in process of updating.
So we're working on updating the financial management T-Kit, organizational management, and we hope in already we have in our work plan in two years time to have a couple of capacity building events dedicated to this. But in parallel, we will be working with colleagues in the foundation, maybe with other youth sector actors to see how to promote the content of the toolkit, not just the T-Kit itself.
Maybe through some modular online learning or targeted webinars. We have, as you know, we have the MOOCs and there's the MOOC on [00:30:00] youth work essentials and perhaps as part of that, we could develop a module on the toolkit. So this is something that is still in the plans. If you have ideas, don't hesitate to share them with the youth partnership.
And we really look forward to see how it gets picked up and how the youth groups find it useful. I don't think, to be honest, I don't think that beginner project people need advice because they're the most excited people usually. And, indeed they will find the resources and we're happy that this is one of the potential resources that they will use.
Dariusz: Thank you. I think good advice is always needed, and whoever you are, wherever you are and whatever you do, yeah, reading the T-Kit may not be an option for many people, but may be consulting the T-Kit and even looking for very different things. I mean, it's not a novel. You don't have to read it from cover to cover.
You can find things that are interesting or may be useful for you. Thank you very [00:31:00] much for your contribution to the, this podcast. And yeah, we will provide the links to the T-Kit in the notes. Thanks a lot.