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Geek Therapy's anime and manga podcast.
Josué (00:06)
Welcome to Otaku Ryoho on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. And here on Otaku Ryoho, we're all about the anime and manga. My name is Josué Cardona, and I am joined by my co-host, Rae Hoover.
Rae Hoover (00:24)
Ayy.
Josué (00:25)
Ayy.
Rae Hoover (00:28)
Yes.
Yeah, it's here. It's happening. It's real. Mm-hmm.
Josué (00:32)
This is the season finale. I don't know what episode
it it is. I don't know what day it is. I don't know when this is getting published, but it's season finale.
Rae Hoover (00:37)
I don't I don't know what year it
is, when am I?
Josué (00:43)
Who knows? So in in prep for for the idea of like a season finale and then a potential not a potential, but like, you know, at the end of a season there's always a hiatus.
Rae Hoover (00:54)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (00:55)
And I mean, you know, like time in between in between seasons. It got me thinking about one of my favorite
tropes in
Rae Hoover (01:02)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (01:03)
probably all of fiction, but there's something about it in anime that I that I really, really like,
Rae Hoover (01:08)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (01:09)
which is the time skip.
Right. I think there's a show that you like that has a time skip. Yeah. Your one of your tattoos is is you
Rae Hoover (01:14)
Th might be there might be. Rumored.
Josué (01:20)
have the tattoo ab of the time skip, right? Do you? No, like the the year thing, the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rae Hoover (01:23)
I mean k you want Yeah.
Josué (01:27)
Okay. Yeah, w I wanted to wasn't sure. so obviously I'm talking about One Piece. One Piece has a pretty cool time skip.
Rae Hoover (01:34)
Mm.
Josué (01:36)
I I love time skips.
Rae Hoover (01:39)
Yeah, what do you like about him?
Josué (01:40)
I I love in part it's
Hmm. I had different answers, but I'm trying to give like the emotional answer.
Rae Hoover (01:47)
Yeah.
Josué (01:48)
I have logical answers. I think there's something about change that is exciting to me.
I love what if stories, right? I love imagining a future. I like thinking I like answering those questions. What if? What would happen? where will we be this
Rae Hoover (02:11)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (02:12)
many years in the future? I think upon like reflecting on my own life, I know I'm never able to predict where I'm gonna be
two years out. So
Rae Hoover (02:25)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (02:25)
a long time ago I just stopped like I stopped committing to anything too far out because I have no idea. You know, people are like, in three years we can do this. I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna be here in three years.
Rae Hoover (02:38)
Yeah, you don't know what country you're gonna be in three years at this rate.
Josué (02:41)
I don't know where
I'm gonna be. Yeah. So so i emotionally I love the novelty of it is probably
Rae Hoover (02:48)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (02:49)
the emotional answer, right? It's like I love all of a sudden everything is different. I have a few favorites and stuff, but I'm I'm curious, how do you feel about time skips? Do you like them? Do you not like them?
Rae Hoover (03:00)
I I like them. similar reasoning as you. I love the potential of something new, the potential of the what if, the potential of this could be something completely different. This could be something fun. It's interesting. What are we gonna make of it? if we get a glimpse of something in the future, say like we just get a brief snapshot of where we are in five years and it looks so vastly different.
That makes me curious. What happened? How did we get to that point? Like that and I yeah, that just makes my brain light l light up in a way of of going, Well, what if this happened? What if that happened? I also love a what if story and just kind of going down those rabbit holes as, a writer or, you know, aspiring writer myself. That's just something I I love doing because it's just full of creativity and excitement. time skips in shows and anime. I feel like I've
wasn't really a fan. I felt kind of neutral about them before, but I they've grown on me. They've grown on me over time.
Josué (04:03)
It wasn't gonna bring up Star Trek.
Rae Hoover (04:06)
Well okay, we're two of the five shows in.
Josué (04:09)
But as as we as we were talking about it, I just wanted to mention that one
Rae Hoover (04:12)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (04:12)
of my favorite things to happen in like when I I was thinking about my favorite time skips and th there's a few,
but probably the one in Star Trek Discovery is my
Rae Hoover (04:25)
Mm. yeah.
Josué (04:26)
favorite. because they jump nine hundred years into the future.
Rae Hoover (04:33)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (04:34)
Right. And even though it's like it's the it's it's not a time skip in the traditional sense of where is the crew later? It is it is absolutely just a time travel story where the same characters have moved forward in time. Sort
Rae Hoover (04:45)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (04:46)
of. I mean, really only one of them we follow them in that sense, and like there is like a time skip for the rest. But the idea that you get to see the universe change, like
Rae Hoover (04:54)
Yeah.
Josué (04:55)
what's different all of these places that we've known for so long, what do they look like nine hundred years into the future?
Rae Hoover (05:02)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (05:02)
Yeah, like that's very exciting, like taking the same pieces and moving them.
Rae Hoover (05:06)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (05:06)
And we we can keep geeking out about about them and and some of our favorite ones in context. I I I want to right up front bring up why I think that in the geek therapy sense they're very helpful. If you use it as a metaphor for where you want to be, for example, if I ask if I ask someone, okay, think about where you are now, think about where you want to be, right? Imagine that future. And then
you fill in the gap, right? Then what needs
Rae Hoover (05:37)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (05:38)
to happen to get from here to there?
Rae Hoover (05:41)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (05:41)
Right? And then that's where you can start designing behavioral change and lifestyle change. And you can start putting things into effect but like without picturing that future that you want, the the end result, right? It's it's kind of hard. So
Rae Hoover (05:56)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (05:57)
as that time skip, it's like, okay, what had to happen from here to there? Now interestingly, so you mentioned like
letting to r likeing to write.
Rae Hoover (06:08)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (06:08)
I'm I'm curious to hear your thoughts on on the rest of this because I love a flash forward. I hate flashbacks. Like
Rae Hoover (06:16)
Mm. Yeah.
Josué (06:18)
flashbacks bother me and sometimes they're a necessity, right? Like you do the time skip, you n you need to fill in you don't need to right, but like you start filling in some of the things that happen in between. There are questions that might need answering
for the purpose of the story.
I have mixed feelings about that. but I I I hate the f going back in time most of the time.
Rae Hoover (06:45)
Yeah.
Josué (06:45)
Especially if it's like you skipped forward and now we're gonna just keep filling in the back story
Rae Hoover (06:51)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (06:52)
little by little. It usually bothers me. There there are examples of this where it doesn't.
Rae Hoover (06:56)
Yeah.
Josué (06:58)
Like Frieren, for example, right?
Rae Hoover (07:00)
Yeah.
Josué (07:00)
We we had a whole episode where it obviously it didn't
Rae Hoover (07:03)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (07:04)
bother me.
The flashbacks there aren't really filling in the gap in that sense, but but I think the flashbacks there work better than in than I see in I like them more than than I see in in other media. But the flashback,
Rae Hoover (07:18)
Yeah,
Josué (07:19)
like in the in like in the clinical sense of what we're discussing, a flashback
Rae Hoover (07:23)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (07:23)
is more like, let's explain why things are the way they are, how why you are the way you are, or why things ended up this way.
Rae Hoover (07:30)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Josué (07:33)
And that's very
different. That's not proactive, right? That's like, sure, we want to understand those things. We ought we want to recontextualize it. We want to retell that story at times,
Rae Hoover (07:43)
Yes.
Josué (07:44)
which is also helpful. But I love this this I the the concept of well here's what we we can't change that stuff necessarily. What we can change is what we do moving forward
Rae Hoover (07:59)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (08:00)
and and just picturing that future. Okay, we need to accomplish this.
How do we and then we come up with a plan, et cetera. Yeah. Just my general thoughts on on why I wanted to talk about this today.
Rae Hoover (08:14)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that that totally tracks for you and what I know of you as a person. You know, the fact that you are very present in the moment and all about that and not
you you don't like ascribing things to the future because it's like, well, I don't know what's gonna happen there. You don't like spending too much time dwelling on the past because, well, I can't change anything about that. So that makes sense. I I feel similarly about like those aspects too.
just looking back on things, like the context matters. We need to have that context to recontextualize things going forward. You have to know what you're trying to change in order to change it and do something different with it. but dwelling in the past is not helpful for the vast, vast majority of people. and yet from a writing standpoint, I also I I grow weary of a lot of flashbacks. They need to be used very intentionally and thoughtfully and not repetitively.
there yeah, there's certain there's certain shows that really can just like beat the flashback into the frickin' ground. It's like, we're just gonna just keep repeating this. there's there's certain shows, certain fillers that tend to really rely on that and it really just takes out any of the emotional impact by grinding it into the frickin' dust.
Josué (09:36)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, so some of your favorite do you have a favorite time skip in in anime? Curious.
Rae Hoover (09:47)
I'm just trying to think. I'm trying to remember time skips. One piece is obviously the big one there. what about the other like four shows we ever talk about here?
Josué (10:02)
So w so why
do you do you like the time skip in in One Piece? I'm curious.
Rae Hoover (10:07)
I'm
conflic I have conflicted, complicated feelings about it because of
Josué (10:12)
Please.
Rae Hoover (10:13)
Well, okay, spoiler light on exactly what happens, but the catalyst for the time skip that's always a hard one for me, considering the characters that are involved. a lot of One Piece
fans, myself included to some degree,
feel that pre-time skip was
everyone says like better. And I I don't find better to be a helpful word here. that's bad, that's good. that doesn't really tell me much. in terms of pre-time skip one piece, the humor's definitely different, the stakes are different, the the feel of it is more silly and fun. Zoro is is still really goofy.
He he has a lot of really goofy moments pre-time skip that post time skip he doesn't have anymore. 'cause he's j he's just so quiet and stoic now and anxious. so like that's one change that's like, okay. And like some of the other straw hats that tend to get sidelined post time skip had way more to do pre-time skip because there just wasn't as many of them yet.
Josué (11:15)
Dragon Ball and and Naruto avoided some of the some most of the complaints that people have about One Piece being too long
Rae Hoover (11:26)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (11:27)
by making those transition points where there is a time skip, where they're basically a new a new show.
Rae Hoover (11:34)
Yeah.
Josué (11:35)
Technically the the my understanding is that the Dragon Ball manga is just one long manga, but when it went to anime
Dragon Ball ends and then Dragon Ball Z starts
Rae Hoover (11:47)
Yeah.
Josué (11:47)
with technically there's like a small time skip in at the end of Dragon Ball and then
Rae Hoover (11:54)
Yeah.
Josué (11:55)
and then another one between Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. But it's basically like, Goku's a kid, and
Rae Hoover (12:01)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (12:02)
then he's a teenager, and then between Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, he's he's an adult with a
with a child.
Rae Hoover (12:12)
Yeah.
Josué (12:12)
Right? Which is like it's it just imagine, right? Like you've you've known this character for so long and all of a sudden he shows up and he's got this toddler with him,
Rae Hoover (12:20)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (12:20)
you know, and you're like, What is this? Right. And then you start meeting all the characters and you kind of like start filling in like, where where we're where are they now? Right.
Rae Hoover (12:28)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (12:29)
And it was it was so exciting. And and Naruto does the same thing. When it becomes Shippen, Shippen is is also a time skip.
Rae Hoover (12:38)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (12:38)
I think
I'm I'm I'm almost certain. Now as I'm saying it, I'm like doubting myself, but I'm pretty sure Naruto ends with him basically going off with one of his mentors to train and then
Rae Hoover (12:48)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (12:49)
Shippuden starts up and and nobody's seen him in a while. And it
Rae Hoover (12:54)
Mm.
Josué (12:55)
is so cool to see him aged up a little bit,
In in shows like that, you you know, okay, this is an ending, and now there's a new beginning
Rae Hoover (13:03)
Yeah.
Josué (13:05)
versus something like I don't know if you watched Game of Thrones the House of the Dragon.
Rae Hoover (13:11)
Mm-hmm. I didn't watch that.
Josué (13:15)
So there's a I don't remember what episode it is, but basically you from one episode to another, it skips like twelve years, I think,
Rae Hoover (13:25)
Damn.
Josué (13:26)
right? And you and it's
It's you don't know that it happened
Rae Hoover (13:30)
Mm.
Josué (13:31)
until you see one character and they're referring to the character by name and it's the actor has been recast and they're a lot older and
Rae Hoover (13:39)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (13:40)
they have kids and like all this kind of stuff. It was and it I never read the books, and even I I'm I'm guessing even people who read the books didn't expect that from just one week to the next you were going to skip forward in the story. There's
Rae Hoover (13:51)
Yeah.
Josué (13:52)
no transition. There's no
There's no
like fading to black. There's no ten years later, right? There's nothing
Rae Hoover (13:58)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (13:58)
like that. Like the new episode just starts and you're like, who are these people? And it's exciting though, too.
Rae Hoover (14:02)
Yeah. Wow, that is wild. Yeah.
Josué (14:07)
And so, I think
Rae Hoover (14:09)
So you can figure out what's going on.
Josué (14:11)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I again it it's extended. You're like, what? It's like kind of jarring and and it's cool. But probably my favorite is
Gotta be I I think Attack on Titan is my favourite.
Rae Hoover (14:23)
Mm. That doesn't shock me.
Josué (14:24)
Attack on Titan does it in a way that is so
think everything that show does and that story does is amazing but I I
Rae Hoover (14:33)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (14:34)
think it might be my favorite one and it it's because of like you have a period where it's like okay there is something we we reached a milestone and then between one season and the next the way attack on Titan does it is is so cool.
Rae Hoover (14:57)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (14:57)
I think
a lot of people have this experience. I don't I'm not the only one. I'm not saying that this is everybody's experience, but when it starts, you think it's a flashback.
Rae Hoover (15:06)
Mm.
Josué (15:07)
You think that everything that is happening happened a long time ago because none of the characters that you meet are the ones that you were with before the new season. And then you start realizing
that you've actually skipped ahead in time.
Rae Hoover (15:26)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (15:27)
Cause you're like, is that is that no, is that no way.
Rae Hoover (15:29)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (15:30)
wait, what? And and so again, it's like you shift you you completely change into one from one place to another. And I and I agree I agree that there's a lot of fun that can be had narratively by filling in some of those gaps later on.
Rae Hoover (15:46)
Yeah.
Josué (15:47)
But stories that just rely on that a hundred percent,
I can't. I can't.
Rae Hoover (15:50)
No,
no.
Josué (15:52)
Can't do it. just give it to me lean in a linear fashion then. No. I d I d I I c I can't I don't
Rae Hoover (16:00)
Yeah,
Josué (16:01)
I don't like it.
Rae Hoover (16:01)
the story has to be doing it in a really interesting way in order for me to keep my attention. Like if it's new information that's being revealed through flashbacks, that will keep my attention more. But if it's just like you're retelling the same things over and over again, no, I'm out. Like I can't I can't do that.
Josué (16:20)
Yeah. Now in shows like like Naruto and One Piece and Dragon Ball, they are Shonen
Rae Hoover (16:27)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (16:27)
It's also exciting to see when when the time skips happen, like everybody's leveled up. You know,
Rae Hoover (16:33)
Yeah.
Josué (16:33)
like people have new powers, people are stronger, people maybe look different, you know?
Rae Hoover (16:38)
Mm.
Josué (16:39)
Now there there are things like okay, so when One Piece Zoro comes back, he lost an eye. We still don't know why he lost an eye, right?
Rae Hoover (16:45)
I was just thinking about that. We still don't know.
Josué (16:48)
there's a mystery, but all hundreds of episodes later, it doesn't matter.
Rae Hoover (16:53)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (16:53)
One Piece does do the thing where like it's I mean, and literally they just announced the movie that's a h all like basically a flashback, right? So
Rae Hoover (17:00)
Yeah.
Josué (17:02)
so One Piece does do this. I think it does it more than Naruto. A lot more. I'm not saying quality wise, I'm just saying like quantity wise, right? In terms
Rae Hoover (17:11)
Yeah.
Josué (17:11)
of like filling in things of the of the past.
Rae Hoover (17:15)
It definitely does, especially more recently. There have been a lot of arcs that are just like these big flashbacks of of import really important characters that contextualize everything. I think they're really well done. They seem to be very well received by the fandom overall. because it is cool to kind of it it's almost more like a prequel than just a flashback for how long these things last and how many things that get explained and elaborated on.
Josué (17:41)
It's funny. So so when I was reading I was reading the manga, for example, with Kuma and Bonnie's story,
Rae Hoover (17:47)
Yes.
Josué (17:48)
right? So I I love that story.
Rae Hoover (17:51)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (17:52)
I think it's it's a beautiful story.
It explains multiple characters' motivations. But as I was reading it, I was like,
you stop the story, right? Like
Rae Hoover (18:08)
Mm.
Josué (18:08)
like in this case, like you said, like it's it's more of a prequel than a flashback in the sense that they're not really going I believe, if I remember correctly in the manga, the way I remember it, the way I remember my feeling
Rae Hoover (18:23)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (18:24)
was we left the story behind, spent multiple chapters telling this, and then came back to
Rae Hoover (18:29)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Josué (18:32)
the story.
I feel like the anime did it a little differently. I think it jumped back and forth. I don't know if they did it exactly the same. When I watched the anime, it felt a little different.
Rae Hoover (18:41)
Yeah, I think what the anime did, if I remember correctly, is 'cause it's like the the concept of the the A storyline, B storyline So th there will be like the one storyline going on with the with the Straw Hats or whoever else, the the the Vegapunks. And then there was like the the Bonnie storyline and they were kind happening simultaneously for a bit. And then once she really like dove into the the memory bubble
That's when it became like multiple episodes of the flashback.
Josué (19:09)
Yeah. But I don't remember like an entire episode being a flashback in the anime. It's possible that it was, but in the ch but chapters, there were definitely full chapters where it was just
Rae Hoover (19:16)
Now I'm doubting. Yeah.
Josué (19:19)
the the memory.
Rae Hoover (19:21)
Yeah.
Josué (19:22)
And and yeah, I have mixed feelings about it
Rae Hoover (19:27)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (19:27)
because the story stops, right? and I get that he wanted to show
more detail of this and I'm glad we have it. Because if
Rae Hoover (19:33)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Josué (19:36)
you don't show it then there's no other time to show it.
Rae Hoover (19:39)
Yeah.
Josué (19:40)
And the only other option is to put out a like a side story or something,
Rae Hoover (19:44)
Yeah.
Josué (19:45)
which is just like economically like that's that's tough, right? It's like what you get another group to animate it. Like you could do all that stuff. But
Rae Hoover (19:53)
I mean they are doing it.
Josué (19:55)
they they're literally
doing it now. Yeah. With
Rae Hoover (19:57)
Yeah. They've they've
they've published novels for or like novellas for like Ace's backstory and then also a couple of law backstory stories as well.
Josué (20:08)
And what is what
is what is the movie that's coming out the the island? I forgot the name of the island.
Rae Hoover (20:14)
I don't rem God Valley. Yeah.
Josué (20:14)
But that one, you know, God Valley, yeah, right.
It's like they're all islands.
Rae Hoover (20:20)
Yo technically, yeah.
Josué (20:23)
Right? The God Valley thing, right? Or it's like, we're gonna tell the story. I mean, I mean, this is literally actually what I want, right? It's like I think at
Rae Hoover (20:31)
Actually, yeah.
Josué (20:32)
some point, right? Again, I haven't read the manga, so I don't know if they're literally just like if the story of God Valley is told within the manga. Right?
Rae Hoover (20:39)
Mm-hmm. It is.
Josué (20:41)
It is. So now it's not gonna be in the anime, it's gonna be a separate movie.
Rae Hoover (20:44)
Yeah.
Josué (20:44)
So
literally it will never you'll it might stop one season and then we get the movie and they come through, but watching week to week you'll never just spend three months in God Valley and then come back to the story.
Rae Hoover (20:55)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (20:57)
Which I guess is my ideal outcome. but it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know. But I I think you can tell some of that stuff.
expertly right through
Rae Hoover (21:07)
Yeah.
Josué (21:08)
conversation in other ways that isn't necessarily a a flashback.
Rae Hoover (21:13)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (21:14)
but I again so it's like okay now you're telling me everything that happened and why we are where where we are. I
Rae Hoover (21:20)
Yeah.
Josué (21:21)
d I think it's I think it's okay. But like my favorite story like I love the mystery of of of Zoro's eye. I have no idea,
Rae Hoover (21:29)
Yeah.
Josué (21:29)
right? Well at this point don't even we may never even
Rae Hoover (21:34)
Yeah.
Josué (21:35)
I'm sure he will tell us because he he like I think he crosses every T and and dots every
Rae Hoover (21:39)
Yeah.
Josué (21:40)
I. I think Oda Oda will do that. But sometimes it's okay if there isn't if it isn't answered. I don't know. But
Rae Hoover (21:46)
Mm-hmm. It probably was such
a mundane thing that Zoro has never even considered just mentioning it. He's like, no one asked.
Josué (21:55)
Nah, I think it'll be epic and it'll get its own movie.
Rae Hoover (21:57)
Yeah, fair enough. There there's only those two options truly. Either
we get a whole whole backstory movie on his eye injury or it's just never mentioned.
Josué (22:09)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which meaning that like it doesn't sometimes it doesn't matter, right? Especially in the sense that he again, I don't remember him ever stating that having one less eye has hindered him in any way.
Rae Hoover (22:32)
It clearly has not.
Josué (22:33)
Right? It's never been like, you know
Let's tell the story of how this tragedy happened where he lost the eye and now, you know, the consequences of it. And it's like, nope, he just came back one with one less eye and he's still powered up and and changed.
Rae Hoover (22:48)
Yeah.
Josué (22:49)
And again, at no point is do we need
What am I trying to say? I guess so far there's no meaning, right? Like like the the the it's it's only an aesthetic change that doesn't seem to have any meaning to him that we know of doesn't impact
Rae Hoover (23:06)
Yeah. It doesn't
Josué (23:07)
the story, and so it doesn't need its own story to give it gravity because
Rae Hoover (23:13)
Yeah.
Josué (23:14)
it's it's it doesn't it doesn't matter yet in
Rae Hoover (23:17)
Yeah.
Josué (23:18)
the So I understand giving fleshing out something that does have importance.
Rae Hoover (23:22)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (23:23)
But the eye doesn't seem to.
Rae Hoover (23:25)
Yeah, I think that's known as like Chekhov's gun in in writing. basically if the author mentions a gun at an early point in the play
or show or book, then it's going to have relevance later. Like there's no point in mentioning it otherwise. So it seems like Zoro's eye is not one of those in that it just
It's never really been acknowledged, so it doesn't have a big precedence. It's probably not gonna do anything.
Josué (23:55)
Yeah, I don't even remember anybody mentioning it.
Rae Hoover (23:57)
Yeah, I don't either.
Josué (24:00)
I think maybe Nami was like like your eye and then that was it, you know, and he just brushed it off, but nobody else was like, What happened to you? Everybody's just like moss head, blah blah blah, whatever.
Rae Hoover (24:09)
Yeah. it's also kind
of easy to just fill in the blank there of like, the sword man lost an eye after he trained with another sword man for two years. A plus B equals C. You can kind of see what happened there, you know? It's not hard. It it would be different if like Chopper came back and didn't have an eye. Like that would be like what happened there. But
Josué (24:31)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (24:32)
for Zoro, he clearly got poked.
Josué (24:36)
And ultimately it doesn't affect the like the changes that happened, those that's not a significant one. Just like
Rae Hoover (24:41)
Mm. Yeah.
Josué (24:43)
with everybody else, wardrobe changes, aesthetic changes, power level changes, all these things do affect the story.
Rae Hoover (24:54)
Mm. Exactly.
Josué (24:56)
So I mentioned Dragon Ball, I think I mentioned that show before.
Rae Hoover (24:59)
Maybe once or twice.
Josué (25:00)
One cool thing that happens is like another one of my favorite time skips in in Dragon Ball is when there's different versions of this,
Rae Hoover (25:12)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (25:13)
but there's one time I think it's in the Cell saga. Always, always take take my recollections with a grain of salt. I think it's in the Cell Saga
where Cell is like, you know, we have you have three days.
Or something like that, you know, to come back. And so they have this thing called the
Rae Hoover (25:32)
Hyperbolic time chamber.
Josué (25:33)
if it's hyperbolic or hypobolic. Like I r I don't remember the exact word, but yes, it's a time chamber.
Rae Hoover (25:38)
Yeah.
Josué (25:39)
And so it's like, time moves much more slowly in there.
Rae Hoover (25:44)
Yeah. It's one day in the real
world is like a year in the time chamber.
Josué (25:49)
Yeah. And so there's like we get to see some of the time passing there, but I
Rae Hoover (25:55)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (25:56)
believe it's Vegeta and Trunks. We really don't. Or we see just at the beginning.
Rae Hoover (26:01)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (26:01)
And then we just see them like basically after, right?
Rae Hoover (26:04)
Yeah.
Josué (26:05)
And that's probably one of the most interesting stories because Trunks has never met his father from the reality that he comes from. His father died. Yeah,
Rae Hoover (26:13)
Yeah, it's another future trunks, right? Yeah.
Josué (26:16)
it's future Trunks, so
He, you know, he gets a train with his father who he's never met. And at this point, he's convinced that his father is like an evil, just an evil person and not good.
Rae Hoover (26:25)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (26:26)
But he decides, okay, let's train together. And so they spend time together. And then we don't see it. We see the results of it afterward.
Rae Hoover (26:31)
Aw. Mm-hmm.
Josué (26:34)
Is is so cool. I mean, they could
Rae Hoover (26:36)
Yeah.
Josué (26:36)
have told so many stories in between, but there's something about like, okay, we jumped to here. And now also like we've all leveled up and it's
Rae Hoover (26:43)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (26:44)
and it's crazy.
And then you just get to see the results of it, the results on their relationship, the results
Rae Hoover (26:49)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (26:50)
on I think I think I think that's cool too, where we don't have to see every single moment.
Rae Hoover (26:55)
Yeah.
Josué (26:56)
we can move ahead in the story. I I I think that right, like the metaphor of like maybe the details in between don't always we get hung up on a lot of the details in
between.
Rae Hoover (27:10)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (27:11)
When we can just push ahead, right? Like sometimes
good enough is good enough and just move on to the next thing, right? Like,
Rae Hoover (27:17)
Yeah.
Josué (27:17)
there's there's an outcome that you're trying to work for. How do we just accomplish the thing?
Rae Hoover (27:22)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (27:23)
There may be multiple side quests and things that we could do.
They're side quests, right? Like they're not necessary for the main story.
Rae Hoover (27:30)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (27:31)
So, like all of these different metaphors, right, that you could use for progressing and change, right?
Rae Hoover (27:38)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (27:38)
In in that therapeutic process, in your treatment plan, even. It's like, yeah, we could work on all this other stuff, but like what if we remember, like, picture that that outcome again? Like, picture the the the future state. What could it be?
Is it exciting? Does it sound cool? Like let's work towards that
Rae Hoover (27:54)
Yeah.
Josué (27:54)
instead of
Rae Hoover (27:55)
Instead of taking a side quest and just you know, going down this this side story path.
Josué (27:59)
Yeah. Kind of like th that there's I guess I guess at this point in the in the conversation I'm saying that there is potential benefit to skipping ahead.
Rae Hoover (28:07)
Mm-hmm. And not getting too tied up in the
details.
Josué (28:09)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like if if it were a story, it's like, if I skip these three chapters, does it make a difference?
Rae Hoover (28:15)
Mm.
Josué (28:16)
Believe it or not, it doesn't. You could just skip ahead, right? Do
Rae Hoover (28:19)
Yeah.
Josué (28:20)
I have to do all this? okay. And and and not saying just skip ahead in the sense of cheating or or doing less, but just again, it's like keeping your eye focused on what it is that you're you're trying to accomplish and want to do. Could
Rae Hoover (28:34)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (28:35)
we skip ahead? Is there anything I could do to get
there faster. You
Rae Hoover (28:39)
Yeah.
Josué (28:40)
you take stock of what you have and what you're doing. You're like, actually there's a bunch of stuff that is completely unnecessary.
Rae Hoover (28:46)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (28:47)
Yeah. Yeah.
Thinking of different metaphors there, but I think
Rae Hoover (28:51)
Yeah.
Josué (28:52)
yeah. So again, lots of fun. I really, really like the big change, right? And I think that the stories that do it well, they wrap up the thing that they're doing now. You don't just end like you don't just like leave stuff hanging. You're like, Okay, I could tell a really cool story like ten years ahead in their
Rae Hoover (29:12)
Yeah.
Josué (29:12)
in their and also just like changing things around. Again.
This this is something that's very attractive to me. I'm
Rae Hoover (29:17)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (29:18)
sure there are people who feel entirely different, right? It's like you took away everything that I liked.
Rae Hoover (29:25)
Yeah.
Josué (29:25)
You changed everything now. And now I
Rae Hoover (29:27)
Yeah.
Josué (29:28)
don't like it. I never feel like you took away from me because the old episodes are still there. The old
Rae Hoover (29:32)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Josué (29:34)
story is still there. The first book is still there.
Rae Hoover (29:36)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (29:37)
Now we get to tell a new, a new story.
Rae Hoover (29:40)
And that's
and that's the thing, with the power of like fanfic, you can stay in the the arc, you know, the pre time skip whatever that you like. And you can c you or other like the official author can explore those things and expand them further. No one can stop you, be ungovernable. Write fanfic.
Josué (30:00)
Yeah. I when I left the the new Spider Man movie,
Rae Hoover (30:04)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (30:05)
I was very disappointed
because of the version of the movie that I that I created in my head as we got closer to the film.
Rae Hoover (30:14)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Josué (30:17)
Especially specifically the th I try not to do that ever. But
Rae Hoover (30:20)
Yeah.
Josué (30:20)
it was specifically in the marketing, the way that they played with
Sadie Singh's character, and they would never say, No, I'm gonna do it too, because
Rae Hoover (30:26)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Josué (30:29)
they were like, who is she playing? What character is she in the movie? And they kept alluding to it. I started thinking of a version of who she could be and what story they could tell. And the
Rae Hoover (30:41)
Yeah.
Josué (30:42)
version that I came up with, I loved. So then when I saw the movie, I was like, they did this. Okay.
Rae Hoover (30:50)
Be ungovernable,
write write the fanfic. Do it.
Josué (30:53)
Yeah. But th there's something there's something here because
Once I I have to I have to accept that the movie right that the new movie is canon in the sense of canon, right? Of like the story continues. You're absolutely right, right? Like it doesn't like all the fanfic stories aren't less true, but if we're going by canon, it's like, okay, so this is canon now. And once I accept that, it's it's fine,
Rae Hoover (31:18)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (31:19)
right? There's something about just I usually talk about fanfic the p in a in a positive light.
But in
Rae Hoover (31:25)
Yeah.
Josué (31:26)
this in this sense of the of like the time skip and like the future state of imagining a a potential future. like if I get I will not enjoy brand new day if I stay stuck to my old version,
Rae Hoover (31:44)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (31:45)
right? Like I want to enjoy brand new day. I want to enjoy that MCU, right? Or like any continuity, right? It's like
Say Dragon Ball, right? It's like if I get start getting upset because Dragon Ball GT, isn't canon anymore, right?
Rae Hoover (32:01)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (32:02)
Then it will always be there bothering me and making it harder to enjoy the current things that are happening.
Rae Hoover (32:09)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I see what
you're saying here of like if you're engaging in say fanfic as a coping mechanism of being unable to deal with change, is that actually serving you in any way? It seems like generally no, because
it's keeping you stuck in the past. You're not able to go through the acceptance of this is what is actually happening here. Ideally, adding something like fanfic into the picture should be an and.
not instead or a but Like have it be something that adds to your enjoyment and also you can enjoy the original thing. If that makes sense.
Josué (32:51)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think I think you you got it. It it's messing with my metaphor with a metaphor that I'm trying to to do today, right? On another day I can use fanfic for it in in other contexts, but the the idea of like saying hung up on your story, right? On this on this imaginary version of of events. It's like, that's not time skip happened and it's very disappointing. It's not what I wanted it to be.
Rae Hoover (33:16)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (33:16)
It's like, yep.
then that doesn't mean you keep living in that fantasy world. Again, meaning the real world in your life, right? You don't keep living in that in that world. Assuming that you want to accept reality and like that the outcome is that you live a more fulfilled life or whatever, right? Like that
Rae Hoover (33:35)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (33:35)
that life is easier.
Whatever positive
Rae Hoover (33:38)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (33:38)
insert positive description here. But then staying focused on what could have been, what you wish would have happened, is not going to help you accomplish your your goals. And
Rae Hoover (33:51)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (33:52)
realistically you can imagine this this happens in the in in the Dragon Ball around the Cell Saga as well,
Rae Hoover (33:59)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (33:59)
where Trunks comes from a future, a terrible future, where like
Everything went so badly. And
Rae Hoover (34:08)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (34:09)
so he comes, he time travels, goes
to the past, and tries to prepare them for the future that is coming. And he explains how things played out, how things happened and what to do and how to avoid these events.
Rae Hoover (34:23)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (34:23)
And just the fact that he went back and did that makes it so that the events of the future are neither his reality nor the one that he wanted.
Rae Hoover (34:35)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, the timeline like splits.
Josué (34:37)
No, no, I'm no, I mean I mean yes, it it it splits. Like he he can never undo his reality, but
Rae Hoover (34:43)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (34:44)
the reality that he's trying to create for them, right? That he lays out the picture, he's like, if you do this, do this, do this, we'll prevent all of this. And
Rae Hoover (34:52)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (34:52)
it turns out n it doesn't work that way.
Rae Hoover (34:54)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (34:55)
Right? It's it is it was always going to be a different reality, but
Rae Hoover (34:58)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (34:59)
it isn't it wasn't easy. The the things popped up in order in in a different order.
things like just the fact that he he he messed with time. Anyway, him trying to he wanted a particular story and he didn't get that one either. Nobody did.
Rae Hoover (35:15)
Yeah.
That's really interesting actually.
Josué (35:17)
Which makes it a really fun story to watch because he
Rae Hoover (35:19)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (35:20)
told you everything that's gonna happen. And then literally there is also a time skip. Like he comes, he actually comes and then he comes back a few years later as the
Rae Hoover (35:29)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (35:30)
events are starting to unfold. And once those events start happening, he starts noticing, wait a minute, this isn't what happened in my reality. This isn't what happened
Rae Hoover (35:38)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (35:39)
here. And so everybody prepared for something that is not playing out the way they thought.
Rae Hoover (35:45)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (35:46)
And nobody's doing what
Right. So like he like we can picture that future and it just it doesn't work out that way. So it's actually it's it's a cool part of the story where people are like, wait,
Rae Hoover (35:55)
Yeah.
Josué (35:55)
what? In my reality this didn't happen this way, and that didn't happen this
way, and
Rae Hoover (35:59)
Mm.
Josué (36:00)
that's not supposed to happen. It's like, well, it is.
Rae Hoover (36:03)
Yeah.
Josué (36:04)
Such a such a good story.
Rae Hoover (36:06)
It really is. There yeah, there's a lot that we can kind of take from just Trunks' story there of you can try to control everything, everything going forward, try to meticulously plan out, anxiously think of every what if scenario, and life is still just gonna happen the way life happens. that's kind of one of the paradoxes of time travel as a concept. And if we're using the time skip as
a time travel metaphor here. Yeah, you just you if you if you try to compensate for one thing, it's gonna show up in a different way. Or that's gonna have consequences that ripple out in ways that you could not anticipate. Like there's no way to actually predict the future. So the best way to go about it is
Yeah, skip over some of the details. just let it happen. And time skips are I I'm realizing as we're talking about this, time skips are real practice in acceptance and processing that disappointment, processing that loss of expectations. things changed. It's different. There's nothing you can do to change it. You have to figure out how to accept that. Grieve, be disappointed, cry, scream, whatever it is.
But you can't do that forever because that will just be how how your future is if you are just stuck in that past.
Josué (37:19)
Star Wars is such an interesting version of this as we're talking
Rae Hoover (37:22)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (37:23)
about it in that you got the middle part first.
Rae Hoover (37:25)
Yeah, that was always an odd choice.
Josué (37:28)
Right. And then so you tell the middle part and then when they finally made the movies telling the story, the prequels, the story that happened before,
things that were only alluded to.
Rae Hoover (37:36)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (37:36)
There were fans who were very upset because I think it it didn't fill in how they thought events had played out.
Rae Hoover (37:43)
Yeah.
Josué (37:43)
But now it's explaining to you how events played out. Like the end was always going to end the same. Like you
Rae Hoover (37:49)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (37:49)
knew the final scene of the of the third movie and the first trilogy because
That was never going to change, right? Like none of that. We're always just catching up to this previous story.
Rae Hoover (38:01)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (38:01)
And then the opposite happened when they did the sequels, right? People imagined the future. And in this case, literally there was an there were stories and you know, there were there were so many novels and comic books that told the stories of what happened after.
Rae Hoover (38:16)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (38:17)
And then Lucasfilm literally was like, actually, none of that happened.
Rae Hoover (38:22)
Yeah.
Josué (38:22)
We're gonna tell you the the the new story. And even though I wasn't connected to the extended universe, right? Like all the stories that became not canon, again,
Rae Hoover (38:32)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (38:33)
I'm okay with that kind of stuff. I didn't like any of the decisions that they made. And I mean and I'm not talking about the sequels. I'm talking about the moment that the story picks up again
Rae Hoover (38:43)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (38:44)
and we see everybody who was there who who we knew already, I
Rae Hoover (38:48)
Mm.
Josué (38:49)
did not like where they were.
Rae Hoover (38:50)
Yeah.
Josué (38:50)
Right? Like it was it was really I'm not saying movies are good or bad or anything. I'm saying I and it wasn't just because they weren't where I thought they would be. They definitely weren't where I wanted them to be. Right.
Rae Hoover (39:04)
Yeah.
Josué (39:05)
But that time skip was so delicate like I I I'm I've been talking about time skips that are exciting. It's like, how did we get from here to here?
Rae Hoover (39:15)
Yeah.
Josué (39:15)
The time skip in Star Wars from the original trilogy.
to the sequels was like one of my least favorite experiences
Rae Hoover (39:25)
Yeah.
Josué (39:25)
in fandom ever.
Rae Hoover (39:28)
Yeah.
Josué (39:28)
And it was mostly 'cause like, okay, so like we've talked about our characters level up.
Rae Hoover (39:33)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (39:33)
And in Star Wars, all of our characters were knocked down multiple pegs.
Rae Hoover (39:39)
Yeah, they
got nerfed.
Josué (39:41)
Relationships that were that were
Rae Hoover (39:44)
This is one that gets me.
Josué (39:45)
yeah, that were
happy, right? Or like we're like good, we we we undid them and we see them in moments of conflict, right? And
Rae Hoover (39:54)
Yeah.
Josué (39:54)
and it's like one thing is to nerf I don't even mean in like power sense, right? I mean like
Rae Hoover (39:59)
huh.
Josué (39:59)
you put these people through a grinder, right? Like they come out incredibly like they they are broken compared to the last time that we saw them.
Rae Hoover (40:06)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Josué (40:08)
And that in f that has always felt unnecessary to me.
Rae Hoover (40:11)
Yeah.
Josué (40:13)
Whereas, for example, Naruto
the the show finishes. Got
Rae Hoover (40:18)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (40:18)
your 700 episodes. Show ends. And then you go to Boruto, which is like the next generation.
Rae Hoover (40:26)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (40:27)
Skips forward in time. It's not Naruto's story anymore. It's his son's story. But like
imagine just taking all your favorite characters, right? And then just like literally chopping them up, you know? It's
Rae Hoover (40:35)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Josué (40:38)
like, look at all the ways we hurt all of your favorite characters.
Rae Hoover (40:42)
Yeah.
can can we stop that? Can we can we just knock that off, please?
Josué (40:47)
Yeah.
if all my fictional stories were like that, I would be much more afraid of the future. Right? There's nothing there's nothing hopeful about that. There's nothing exciting about that.
Rae Hoover (40:55)
Mm.
Josué (40:57)
I understand, hey, let's give our characters some conflict, right? But like
Rae Hoover (41:00)
Yeah. But not like that.
Josué (41:03)
also we we don't get any res I mean, there's no good story to tell in between.
Because now the story that you're gonna tell ends with them being broken at the end, right?
Rae Hoover (41:13)
Mm-hmm. And it's
I I'm noticing as we're talking about this as well that like telling the story, having a time skip in like as part of the story,
but like being able to see the growth, the events, how that affects the characters, that's what's satisfying about storytelling. And when we just hard cut into a new, like the next generation kind of thing, and they are all royally fucked up, and it's like
How did we get here? What happened to them? We have none of the satisfaction of going through that process with them. that's already been taken from us as the audience. And like
Josué (41:51)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (41:52)
I am begging writers and studios stop breaking up healthy couples. God, please. I that drives me absolutely off the wall. they were great. they're the endgame, like, love story right there. And they get together and it's
Everyone's happy for them. And then it's like, and now they're divorced. Why? Like, unless there's gonna
Josué (42:12)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (42:13)
be a reconciliation there, I I do love like a divorced energy and then a reconciliation later. I love that. But
Josué (42:18)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (42:21)
like there's nothing interesting about that. You're just trying to create conflict where there doesn't need to be any. And it's I I don't think it's it's strong writing, honestly. I think it could be done better.
Josué (42:34)
And I I never got a scene with Luke, Leia, and Han like together, right? Like that that never happens. And it's one
Rae Hoover (42:38)
Yeah, they were never in the same room together. Yeah.
Josué (42:42)
of those things where it's like, okay, sure, you know, going with the theme of the of this episode, we got to the end and, you know, or we skip forward and things didn't work out. That's okay. They don't always work out.
But it's like there's there's an entire universe out here. There's so many characters you want to introduce.
Rae Hoover (42:58)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (42:59)
And before we start telling anybody's story, we have to destroy the stories that we spent three movies building. Right? It's like
Rae Hoover (43:07)
Yeah.
Josué (43:07)
we take we
take everything from them. Which
Rae Hoover (43:10)
Yeah.
Josué (43:11)
is again like in in in Naruto's case
He he is Hokage when the when the Boruto show starts. That was his dream as a child, right? The whole like when you watch the show, the first episode, he's always he's always saying for 700 episodes, he's just saying, I'm gonna be the next Hokage. I
Rae Hoover (43:29)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (43:29)
wanna be Hokage. I wanna take care of everybody, I wanna be like the mayor of the town. Show starts. He's the mayor of the town. It is
Rae Hoover (43:37)
Yeah.
Josué (43:38)
like the most satisfying thing. You're like, hey, you did it, kid.
Rae Hoover (43:42)
Yeah.
Josué (43:42)
Is it is it what everything he hoped for? No, no, no, no, no. But he
Rae Hoover (43:45)
Course not.
Josué (43:46)
accomplished that like why why take that from him? Let alone us, but like why take that from him? What story are you trying to tell that
Rae Hoover (43:50)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Josué (43:55)
introduce us into you know he's such a hopeful character throughout, and then you introduce the most jaded version of him, like post right? Like that that kind of thing, I don't know. And
Rae Hoover (44:07)
Yeah.
Josué (44:07)
I can't think of a version of this
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even yeah, I don't know. I don't know. That that's like a bad version of it. But I again I understand
Rae Hoover (44:17)
Yeah.
Josué (44:18)
if more stories were like that, this exercise would be harder, right? But
Rae Hoover (44:21)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (44:22)
ultimately you wouldn't imagine that like if I tell you let's let's take stock of where we are, think about where you wanna be, you're
Rae Hoover (44:27)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Josué (44:29)
never gonna say, I wanna be
Rae Hoover (44:31)
I wanna be traumatized and jaded, yeah.
Josué (44:33)
Yeah, I wanna be, you know
I want to I I want to be post all of the terrible things that happened that could possibly happen. It's like no
Rae Hoover (44:41)
Exactly.
Josué (44:41)
no no no no you imagine a brighter future so that you can go ahead and make moves toward that. You would
Rae Hoover (44:48)
Yeah.
Josué (44:48)
never imagine a worse future. At least
Rae Hoover (44:52)
Yeah.
Josué (44:52)
not in the sense of the things that you can control, right? Like the the frustrating, the the exciting thing is that you get to introduce new elements to these stories, right?
Which again, go back to Star Wars, they do that. They introduce
Rae Hoover (45:04)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (45:04)
new elements, right? That's
you can't predict those, right? You can only
Rae Hoover (45:10)
Yeah.
Josué (45:10)
there's only so much that you can control and predict. It's like, hey, in myself, I want this. But that's the equivalent of like, I imagine, you know, I'm married and have a house, you know, it's like, you know, mew
Me and my partner are you know, are married and we have a house in five years. That's a plan. But then like the story that comes out is like, actually you hate each other,
Rae Hoover (45:29)
Yeah.
Josué (45:30)
you divorced and you know, you're living in your parents' basement now. Right. It's like it's like, well
Rae Hoover (45:32)
Some monkeys paw shit. Yeah, like like
why?
Josué (45:41)
That was that was yeah. It's not not cool. At least I don't like that.
Rae Hoover (45:45)
Yeah. I don't I
I have yet to find someone who's a big fan of of that because it's disappointing. And yeah, I I agree with exactly what you're saying of who would want to imagine themselves, their future as something so negative because that's not the end game. That's not the end game anyone's looking for. And I feel like it kind of implies that, there's more to this character's story then.
If this is where they end up. And a lot of times there's not space for that in these in these sequels. You know, whether we're talking about Baruto or Star Wars or whatever, like I kind of get the sense for Baruto that they don't spend any time with the original characters, even just like little glimpses of like their growth and stuff going forward.
Josué (46:30)
No, actually there's tons of it.
But it's not the focus, right? It's never happen it never happens in a flashback.
Rae Hoover (46:33)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Josué (46:36)
And you kind of just notice, right? It's like, this person used to be a teacher, now they're like the flower shop owner. You know,
Rae Hoover (46:42)
Yeah.
Josué (46:43)
like this person, like Mozart's now the mayor, or this person, like, where's this person? you you find out he's like an envoy and he works in the the other town over, right? Like you can
Rae Hoover (46:52)
Yeah.
Josué (46:53)
take glimpses of them. Never it's never
Yeah, it was real tragic what happened to that one. You know, we don't
Rae Hoover (46:58)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (46:59)
talk about we don't talk about him anymore. 'cause like again, like you don't why why take that
away? Why it it like discredits
Rae Hoover (47:06)
Exactly.
Josué (47:08)
but to something you said before, maybe Star Wars more than any other story is like the biggest exercise in acceptance.
Rae Hoover (47:15)
Yeah.
Josué (47:16)
Right? It's like, okay, so this is canon now. if I'm gonna if if I'm going to enjoy the things moving forward
Acceptance is the only way to do that because if I keep thinking about the extended universe or I you know the legends content, or if I keep thinking about how I wish things were,
Rae Hoover (47:33)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (47:33)
I'm not gonna move forward, right? So in that sense, there is value in how much we dislike this because life is going to be to be to be fair, life is probably gonna be more like like the Star Wars sequels than
Rae Hoover (47:48)
Yeah, but we're at least gonna
see how we get there.
Josué (47:50)
than any of the of the no no no I mean like if you if you skip ahead, right? Like into the future. It's like that meme on on social media where your future self comes, right?
Rae Hoover (48:01)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (48:02)
And and then your your your current self immediately asks questions, right? And
Rae Hoover (48:06)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (48:07)
it's like What happened? Like did we get married? Did we buy a house? Did
Rae Hoover (48:11)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (48:11)
we move to Europe? Did we do this? You know?
It's like, no, this happened, Donald Trump became president, right? Like you go through all the the terrible thing, you're like, What? That's not the future I imagined.
Rae Hoover (48:21)
Yeah, exactly.
Josué (48:23)
The future we're living now is not the one I imagined five five years ago.
Rae Hoover (48:27)
Mm.
Josué (48:27)
So I will never say thank you to the to Lucasfilms for what they did. But it's what we have and so again, if you want it like
leave, just don't engage with it anymore, and you'll probably be happier
if
Rae Hoover (48:38)
Yeah. Exactly.
Josué (48:40)
it if you're struggling with accepting it, right? I still don't like it, but I accept it and like I'm excited to see more stories and like keep moving forward. I still love that world. That alone doesn't change that
Rae Hoover (48:50)
Mm.
Josué (48:51)
piece, that that for me. But being but if I wasn't able to accept that, I wouldn't be able to enjoy anything Star Wars related because I'd always be and I and I know people like that.
Right, who are like, I hate and then like they try to engage because they want to, but they will not accept that this is
Rae Hoover (49:09)
Yeah, they're just miserable.
Josué (49:10)
this is canon now, and so they're just complaining about everything and like making it it's like then you're not having a good time. Why are you here?
Rae Hoover (49:18)
Yeah. And like you don't have to
accept the changes that were made, but you have to accept that you're not enjoying it anymore. Like that's the radical acceptance that needs to happen there. And
Josué (49:26)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rae Hoover (49:29)
then you have to disengage. Like it's not worth it. If it's not serving you, if it's just making you upset and making you, frankly, miserable to be around, because no one can engage with you on this. Mm-hmm.
Josué (49:38)
Because if your goal is to enjoy it.
There you have to accept that this is what it is, right? Or if you can't do that, then you're never going to reach that goal of enjoying it.
Rae Hoover (49:49)
Exactly. You know, you can you can be grateful for the things that in the in the past of the story that you enjoyed that you like. You can engage with that. But if it's not serving you, then I'm getting the spray bottle, knock it off. Like
Josué (50:02)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (50:03)
you're only hurting yourself at that point.
Josué (50:04)
Well, I really like time skips. I think I've said that already a couple times and in different ways. I think they can be helpful as a metaphor in certain circumstances.
Rae Hoover (50:14)
Definitely.
Josué (50:15)
we had a time skip with this show, right? It was it literally five years, you know.
Rae Hoover (50:17)
Yeah. Yeah, from t
from season two to season three.
Josué (50:22)
It was very funny to hear for example, post time skip. I've actually watched One Piece.
Rae Hoover (50:28)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (50:30)
Just something that pre-time skip, I was like, I think I wanted to. I haven't gone back and listened to those episodes. I would say I'm a different person. Definitely
Rae Hoover (50:36)
Mm.
Josué (50:38)
live in a different places. Like a
Rae Hoover (50:40)
Yeah.
Josué (50:41)
lot a lot of things are very different than what I thought, right?
Rae Hoover (50:43)
Yeah.
Josué (50:43)
So so we'll see. And so this is us preparing for another time skip. We don't know
Rae Hoover (50:50)
Yeah.
Josué (50:50)
how long it'll be.
Rae Hoover (50:51)
Hopefully not five years.
Josué (50:52)
I
but that's the trend of the show now. So
Rae Hoover (50:55)
I maybe. Maybe we just have to keep redoing that.
Josué (50:59)
at the very least, if five years pass, we have to come back and do a special five years on just to
Rae Hoover (51:02)
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Josué (51:06)
make fun of current present us
Rae Hoover (51:09)
Yeah.
Josué (51:10)
that thought we wouldn't that it wouldn't be a five year time skip.
Rae Hoover (51:13)
Exactly.
In what? Twenty twenty no, tw ther I'm bad at math. That that would be thirty one? Twenty thirty one?
Josué (51:19)
Yes.
Rae Hoover (51:20)
Ew. First of all, ew. but yeah, you know, we're gonna go back and laugh at our twenty twenty six selves and be like, they were so optimistic, you fools.
Josué (51:30)
twenty thirty one. You heard it here first.
Rae Hoover (51:33)
Hate that. No.
No, we are not manifesting that.
Josué (51:39)
I'm gonna get a tattoo that has a five on it on my arm.
Rae Hoover (51:42)
Well then you can cross it out. The three three D
two Y thing that Luffy did.
Josué (51:48)
Yep, so this is this is the end of season three
Rae Hoover (51:53)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (51:53)
of Otaku Ryoho. It's been fun. Who knows what what the future will hold? Any closing thoughts? Any final messages before we sign off?
Rae Hoover (52:05)
I had a blast. I had a blast and I can't wait to to keep doing this if that's what the future holds.
Josué (52:11)
I hope that post time skip you have watched Naruto and
Rae Hoover (52:15)
That hopefully, but
also would be really funny if I still
didn't
Josué (52:20)
And I hope that in future the next season I'm able to talk about more than three shows.
Rae Hoover (52:29)
Yeah.
we gotta put like a ban on those or something.
Josué (52:32)
I'm also looking forward to how I'll feel about my hero academia in five years.
Rae Hoover (52:38)
Yeah. Five years might be enough
time for you to to like Yeah. The longer
Josué (52:42)
I go back and forth. Who knows? I mean
Rae Hoover (52:45)
we look at it, the more you hate it.
Josué (52:48)
joke now but there might be a whole other like that's a long time to I'm gonna stop making jokes about five years 'cause I know I know you don't want that. You know
Rae Hoover (52:56)
It's a good bit though. It's a good bit.
Horikoshi could release an entire side story to MHA at that point. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Josué (53:03)
whole new sh a whole n whole new series. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (53:07)
And I know he's a Star Wars fan, so Horikoshi don't. Don't don't do it. Don't do the sequels. Don't do the Star Wars sequels. Don't do it.
Josué (53:19)
Deku d doesn't need any more suffering in his life, actually. No thank you.
Rae Hoover (53:22)
God no let let this boy
be happy, please.
Josué (53:27)
Neither do we, and neither do our listeners. So
Rae Hoover (53:28)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Josué (53:30)
thank you so much for listening to Otakurio Season three. for more Geek Therapy, visit geektherapy.org. We've got other podcasts, we've got other projects, we've got other things going on. please reach out to us at geek therapy.org. Engage on social media if we're actively doing that. We're there. It's a thing people say. And
Yeah, remember to geek out and and do good out there. And we'll be back who knows when.
Rae Hoover (54:00)
Yeah.
we'll just jump scare you in the future.
Josué (54:03)
Bye.
Rae Hoover (54:03)
Bye.