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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica 5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars. As well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Poobah, Senator, Grinder, Pagoda, and Chef Ricky.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some cognac, talk about life, and of course
So take this as your 143rd official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to be this here once a week. We're going to smoke a Cuban cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating.
We launch a new Lizard of the Week segment with giveaways, we discuss traveling to Cuba alone versus with an agency, and we discuss some listener feedback on Kirby and CA, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, and enjoy. Light up a cigar and enjoy as we pair Camu Cognac VSOP with the Ramon Ionis Higantus.
A double Corona from Cuba tonight on the pod. It's called the [00:01:00] Ramon Ionis Higantus and it's a 49 ring gauge cigar by seven and five eighths inches long. And boys, very exciting. We have the closer in the building tonight. Chef Ricky Camacho, Mariano Rivera. Welcome in.
**Ricky:** Thank you. Thank you. Good to have you
**Gizmo:** again.
You know, you were saying on the Mezcal deep dive episode that we did, that you were wishing it was a Cuban cigar. And then a couple of weeks ago you were in guesting and we did the Fonseca number one, which wasn't great. So we've brought you in for hopefully what will be an absolute heavy hitter hammer.
I'm really excited about this
**Ricky:** one. Yeah, us too. Super excited. Us
**Gizmo:** too. It's a beautiful double Corona from Cuba. So let's cut this thing boys. See what we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper. It's a big cigar.
**Ricky:** Curious, you guys using V cuts here for this or?
**Gizmo:** I'm going straight cut. I always go straight cut.[00:02:00]
Poobah might have a V on him. I got a straight cut. Oh, you're doing straight.
**Pagoda:** Just about an hour for me. Finally, I get to smoke for the whole bloody episode. It's great.
**Gizmo:** How's your draw everybody? A
**Ricky:** little snug for me, but I'm using a V cut. Yeah, mine's a little snug as well. It's snug.
**Senator:** Mine's resistant, but It seems like there's hopefully just enough air pockets that this will be okay. Lots of cedar.
**Poobah:** Mm hmm. Yeah, mine's wide open, so You picked a good one. I'm lucky I picked a good one.
You're right on the cedar. Yeah,
**Gizmo:** totally. That's really all I'm getting.
**Poobah:** That's pretty much it. A little sweet, sweet cedar.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, we have a lot to get to. Let's light this thing. The Ramon Ionis Gigantis. Again, it's a double Corona. Its factory name is a Prominentis, identical in size to the three other Regular production Promenentis in the Habanos SA catalog, [00:03:00] including the Partagus Lusitanius, the Hoyle Double Corona, and the Punch Double Corona, all three that we've done on the pod.
So this is actually the final Promenentis from Cuba that's in regular production. Uh, for us to do in this first round on the podcast tonight. This is so big. It's a big cigar. It's
**Grinder:** like
**Gizmo:** just
**Grinder:** having it in your mouth.
**Gizmo:** It's a really, it's a big commitment to cigar. When you light this, like you have, you know, this is, this is not a short commitment.
I was trying to blow by it, but it didn't work.
**Grinder:** I wasn't even trying to set that up. It just like came out naturally. You're a natural grinder. Yeah. I'm a natural grinder.
**Gizmo:** Very pleasant on the light for me. It is very
**Pagoda:** pleasant. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Nutty. Yeah. It is funny the disconnect between the cauldron and even when you light it, like I'm not getting any cedar.
**Rooster:** Yeah, you're right.
**Gizmo:** You know, I'm getting more like a, almost like an almond or a
**Ricky:** walnut. Lots of nuts, yeah. [00:04:00] Super nuts.
**Senator:** We're gonna keep on this nut track all night. It's nutty but also slightly floral.
**Rooster:** Mm
**Senator:** hmm.
**Rooster:** It's it's not like a ras, right? Like the rest on the light is different. It's not, it's not that you don't get that nuttiness and the floral note that you're talking more
**Poobah:** tobacco note on the
**Rooster:** rest. Yeah. Deeper. It's nice on the light. Very nice.
**Gizmo:** Very pleasant. I feel like I'm having to fight to draw a little bit more than I'd like to be.
**Poobah:** I'm very fortunate with the draw. The draw is wide open for me. Hoping
**Grinder:** it opens up. I'm already retroing. That's amazing.
**Gizmo:** So these cigars, the box code is OER June 21. So these are just over three years old. The retail price on these cigars is around 40 each. They come in dress boxes of 25. And that retail is [00:05:00] somewhere between 1, 000 and 1, 250 US for a box of 25.
So with varying age, varying conditions where you buy it, you know, if you're buying a fresh box on a retailer. Or if you're buying a little bit of an aged box or a rested box, like this one is, not really terribly aged, on Bon Roberts, you're gonna pay a little bit of a premium, but they're around 40 a piece.
**Pagoda:** You know, considering the price, like, uh, and the size, they seem very reasonably priced, actually. I mean, to your point, it's pretty much two cigars, it's like two 20 sticks.
**Gizmo:** But you know, it's like, uh, look at us in the room here, the seven of us in the room. How often do any of us reach for a double corona, you know?
Well, you, you used to practically daily a Lucy. I used to do a lot of Lucys, but it, you know, it's a big time commitment. You know, when you light this, it's, it's what, an hour 45 at least.
**Rooster:** But it's a good change of pace. Once in a while, you kind of want a double corona, you know It's a good two [00:06:00] hour commitment, I would say.
**Senator:** It's like an occasion cigar.
**Rooster:** Yeah.
**Senator:** I feel like if we're going out to like a cigar lounge that we don't normally spend a lot of time at. We know we're going to put in a night, like you bring something like that. Or we're going on a trip and we're traveling together. We know we're going to spend a lot of time smoking.
You like bring something. But to your point, daily, not really something that we bring often to the lounge here.
**Rooster:** It's funny, I was looking at some pictures from Cuba. I smoked one of these at Tropicana. Oh, during the show? That's great. It was a good hour and 45 minute show.
**Senator:** So you probably got through half of it.
**Gizmo:** A quarter. He took it home with him and smoked the other half the next day. Ha, ha.
**Poobah:** What's tough about judging these cigars sometimes is that it is because of the size of them, they have to be so good for so long, you know, a Robusto or a smaller, a smaller cigar gives you the kind of all those things that you want.
And then it's over, you know, it's, it's almost like this thing has to perform for a long time. So I think [00:07:00] when rating it, you know, it can get. It can get complicated.
**Gizmo:** And I think we've experienced that and we'll go through the actual ratings of the other three prominent this in the Cuban catalog later.
But we've been difficult graders on double Corona's from Cuba, you know? And I think it's because we sit here for two hours and, you know, like you're saying, it doesn't give you an out in, in its, in its. Design.
**Poobah:** Yeah. Is it going to keep you interested this long?
**Rooster:** Yeah. If it's a two act play or a three act play, then it's, you know, it keeps you interested, but if it's one dimensional, then it's tough.
**Gizmo:** We talk about wrapper leaf. We've mentioned that before and the difficulty that Cuba has getting wrapper leaf, uh, especially for bigger cigars like this. And certainly that factors into why we don't see a lot of double Corona's coming to market out of Cuba. But not only regular production stuff, these four regular production.
Prominent this out of a Habano's catalog, but we're also not seeing new releases in this size. And I think it's not only because of habit changes with the consumer, obviously, I don't think [00:08:00] a lot of folks are reaching for cigars that are almost eight inches long, but also it's hard for them to produce wrapper leaf that will fit these cigars.
But it's always been that way, but obviously with demand and the scarcity of resources and why not going in Cuba, they're just not producing as many double Corona's.
**Poobah:** Yeah, Lucy's were always hard to find. They were, you know, we'd be waiting for them to pop up, but they were, they, and when they'd pop up.
**Senator:** Poobah and I waking up at strange hours of the night trying to land Lucy, uh, 50 kevs.
**Poobah:** Texting each other at 4 30 in the morning. I just saw, they just got an alert. I just got an alert. Bye, bye, bye. You know, because, because of that. Oh, gives it to
**Gizmo:** the seller, gives it to the seller
**Poobah:** again. No, I only sell at
**Gizmo:** 5 a.
m.
**Poobah:** No, you know, from, from the gray market, you know, it'd be like they popped up, they popped up, you know, and, uh, you set the alert and it's because of the wrapper. We've,
**Senator:** this is, this is awesome. When a 50 cab [00:09:00] of Lucy's was like 900, we paid like 800 something. It was
**Gizmo:** going for. 2200, 2300 bucks. Yeah. Pretty wild.
So what do you guys think of the look of this cigar? I think, you know, when I pulled these out, I pulled the seven of them out. I mean, they're just really, really beautiful cigars as Pupu would say, handsome, I think. And you know, when I'm holding them in my hand, it's like, these are really, really well constructed.
**Poobah:** Yes. But in the, in, in, in a, in a familiar Ramona onus look like rapper kind of look, it's, it's not invisible seams and it's a bit rustic. It's it's got, it's got that a slightly rustic thing going on. That's very, that, that I don't think is a, is it, is it the merit in any way? It's just their way it was. So it looks familiar, but it's not.
I mean, the construction of it, the build of it, the build, it's not flawless [00:10:00] or like that kind of seamless look and feel that you would get. It doesn't have like an extremely elegant look, but it looks
**Gizmo:** like a good cigar. And like you said, it's very much in line with, you know, a lot of the other Ramon Ionis cigars we smoked with that identical band.
There's not a special band on it. It's just the classic Ramon Ionis band. Very understated, which I think all of us in the room have repeatedly said that we celebrate. Thank you. Very simple classy band and I do notice there is a subtle box press on all of our cigars just for being I mean Stuffed in that dress dress box.
Not so subtle
**Poobah:** Yeah, which isn't all which is not at the merit either unless it starts to perform weird So far, so good.
**Rooster:** Construction. I mean, it's burning really, you know, really well. My
**Gizmo:** draw is opening up. I'm not complaining.
**Senator:** It's opening up, but it's still a little firmer than I would like it. And normally, this wouldn't be a problem for me if the cigar was half this [00:11:00] size.
But if it's going to be this firm, the draw all the way through, I mean, it's a little TDS to like have to be working to it
**Rooster:** might open up
**Senator:** though. I think hopefully. Yeah.
**Rooster:** What do you think Ricky?
**Ricky:** I'm loving it. It is a bit snug for me as well. I did do a Double, uh, v cut here. Just trying to get her to open up a little bit.
But it's, did you do the star bid? I did. Oh, well, the star would be, it's cross. Yeah, it's cross. Cross isn't, yeah. Star would be three sort of. Uh, but yeah, no, it's, uh, it's a beautiful looking cigar. It is quite rustic, but not sloppy. Um, burn line. Looking good. But yeah, draws a little bit snug, but the flavor is great.
**Gizmo:** What flavor notes are you getting right now?
**Ricky:** I'm still, uh, the nuts have dissipated a little bit.
**Rooster:** I got a little pepper.
**Ricky:** I'm getting some pepper, uh, but yeah, I'm getting a It feels so weird because I'm sitting in Bam's chair. I'm getting some [00:12:00] Dried fruit? Some It's not dried fruit. I'm getting like a a a fresh berry note on the at the very beginning of the draw that then outro music plays ends with that peppery note, um, that might just be coming back to the floral.
But yeah, I think the nuttiness has kind of given way to some floral and some sweeter berry, like fresh fruit, not dried.
**Gizmo:** I'm definitely getting floral. I know you mentioned that on the cold draw, but it's not like a punch floral.
**Senator:** Agree, it's different.
**Gizmo:** Like it's like a punch floral to me is just like a potpourri.
It's like
**Rooster:** maybe like a grassy
**Poobah:** floral. It's not, it's not a floral like an MDO floral. Yeah. It, uh, but, but there's a little bit of floral.
**Senator:** And I do get the, the pepper note Rooster mentioned. I think it's more of like a white pepper. It's not like aggressively spicy or like a black pepper, but all the flavors are
**Ricky:** working together nicely.
You think the pepper note, it's coming from us having to draw a little bit heavy?
**Senator:** I don't think so. Because. I mean, the draw on mine, it's not bad, [00:13:00] it's just mildly frustrating. Yeah, yeah. And I think Rooster, it sounds like yours is a little better probably than mine is.
**Rooster:** I think so. I mean, it's a little tight, but I mean, it's not bad.
**Senator:** So I think if he's getting the pepper note and I'm getting it, I think it's more just part of the blend.
**Gizmo:** I feel like it's, it is, there is around, you know, like when you chew a bunch of even raw almonds, that kind of coating of your mouth that happens. I think that that's kind of rounding everything out is there is just a little bit of nuttiness that kind of is taking the little bit of floral, little bit of, of, of pepper.
I'm not getting, I think as much as you guys are, but it's kind of rounding out. And I'm hoping like, like. Senator said that as we smoke along, that it starts to open up a little more. Cause I, I am having to work a little harder than I would like on a cigar of this size.
**Ricky:** So this is interesting. I just purged and I got rid of the pepper altogether.
So I didn't purge. Always
**Senator:** a good move. I didn't purge, but I now just [00:14:00] got two blasts of like sweet notes that has made the nuttiness like a macadamia nut.
**Ricky:** Yeah.
**Senator:** It's like amazingly deli like really tasty.
**Poobah:** I always pur after lighting a cigar like this and getting the especially with if I'm not using a soft flame, I'm always pur I always purge it a couple of times in the beginning and it always helps.
**Ricky:** Yeah, a cigar of this size takes requires so much of a toast that the purge is necessary. It's necessary
**Poobah:** and it helps.
**Gizmo:** So, like I said, these cigars only come in dress boxes of 25, which is unfortunate that they don't come in 50 cabs. Never have come in 50 cabs. That's the only presentation they've ever come in is 25 cigars.
Cigar was originally released in 1978. There is a previously, a previous cigar named Gigantes from Ramon Iones that this replaced. I do like on the top of the box, of course, it has that classic Ramon Iones green on top of the [00:15:00] dress box, so that's pretty cool looking. Oh yeah, you're gonna love that.
**Pagoda:** In a way, it's great that it comes in a 25 thing.
The last couple of cabs I've got, they've been so disastrous that You know, now you go to Suffolk for 50 of them, you know, so it depends. Like with cabs, I think it's important to realize that if it's a great box where, you know, you do get really good cigars, it's fantastic. Uh, but, you know, it's like double the pleasure or double the pain.
It's one of those. It's, um, so in a way, like, uh, you know, getting these, you know, Really long cigars. Uh, 25 may not be a bad, uh.
**Gizmo:** I mean, even to, to continue on your point, if they offered these in tens, like they do Lusitanians.
**Rooster:** Agree.
**Gizmo:** You know, if there were 10 count boxes of some of these double Coronas, that's even easier to swallow, especially in a market where you're paying 40 a cigar, when we used to pay 10, 15 a cigar.
**Rooster:** For a Lucy. So I wonder if Habano's is going to do that, like introduce more 10 packs or even five packs, [00:16:00] you know, like the E twos come in five packs, 10 packs. That's, you know, it's more palatable. The airport stuff. Um, yeah, a lot of the Cohiba C glows. You can get like. Packs of threes and fives.
**Senator:** Yeah. And, and think about it.
I mean, why is that right? Like Yeah. To your point, Cohiba 80 most expensive. You know, mark, that's really where you see a lot of those smaller pack sizes you're talking about. They're gonna have to start doing that with most of the brands.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And a Cohiba Cohibas is six three pack. That's a $300 three pack.
That's a hundred bucks a cigar. The Pyramides extra that we did on the podcast from Cohiba earlier this year. That cigar's a hundred and ten bucks.
**Poobah:** I'll have to work overtime. They used, they, they would, they, they would release the E2 in, uh, uh, back in the day in a five count semi boy nature box, which you guys have seen.
They'd, and they'd release them in two bows. Five packs of two bows. I'd like to see more of that. [00:17:00] I don't know if that's on the, you know, if that's on their agenda or not, but, um, it certainly makes the, and two bows are great. I mean, like I always love getting, you know, When I put in an order, I get, you know, a five pack of two, you know, in a five pack of two bows, five pack of this, five pack of that.
Yeah. Are you paying a little bit more of a premium on that? Uh, sure. But, um, there's also something about a two bows that in certain, with certain cigars, they just, It works really well. Like I've had some really good epitubes in tubos.
**Pagoda:** D4s and tubos. And E2s and tubos,
**Poobah:** you know, um, so it was these five packs, you know, make, do make it accessible.
They'd be smart to do that. I don't know if, if, if that's something that's really.
**Gizmo:** Cigar Aficionado did an article about the. Uh, Partagas, the Partagas Linea Maestra coming out. We've [00:18:00] talked about that cigar a few times. They've now released those cigars finally in the market. They announced them last year at the, in 2023.
So this is going on a year and a half. They announced these cigars. They're finally coming to market in some capacity. They are releasing them in interesting, Package arrangements. So these cigars would normally and presented boxed in as 20 cigars. So there's three of them. I'll repeat those for you. The origin, which is 46 ring gauge by six and an eighth.
The reto, which is 52 by six and five eighths. And the maestro. which is 56 by five and a quarter fat bellicose. So they all have the 109 heads, the rounded tops, uh, which part of it is used to Lusitania is used to come with a 109 top. But what's interesting is cigar aficionado did an article talking about part of this linear maestra who has it and who doesn't talking about the markets of the world that for some reason, Some people are receiving quantity of these new releases [00:19:00] and others aren't.
And of course that goes back to the conversation we had quite, you know, quite a few episodes ago where Habano's pretty much announcing their distribution changes, right? So they pretty much have said that some markets are going to get cigars and others aren't, and we talked about that ad nauseum, but what's interesting about this is that For example, stores in Switzerland, which was one of the countries we talked about their allotment being cut and diverted elsewhere in the world, they got the cigars, but they did not receive 20 count boxes.
They got the three count presentation boxes. That we got at the Habanos festival, one of each of the three cigars. They did not receive like a normal packaging presentation, master crates of 20 count boxes. So to your point, Poobah and to the discussion we're having now, it does seem that Habanos SA is changing their packaging.
And presentation and, and release strategy maybe to get what seems like a [00:20:00] scarce number of cigars into more hands. And of course, factoring in price, a lot more prohibitive, you know, these cigars are respectively 87, 40, 94 and 104 across the three sizes. Those are expensive cigars. You know, so you're getting one of each for, for 300 bucks, as opposed to having to spend a Significant amount of money, but I'm
**Poobah:** not seeing, like we used to see if the gray market, the good gray market sites were out of, let's say a a, um, a semi boy nature box, a full box of D fours.
There would still be tub bows up on the site that people wouldn't pull down because they're like, why am I buying that? I'd just buy a whole box. You could be like, okay, I could get e twos down. I would think the boxes would go down. I would think with the tubo
**Gizmo:** though, I, I would think that's a, a material issue actually getting the aluminum tubo into.
Cuba to put them into packaging. I would imagine that's a struggle supply chain issues. So, yeah, so like, like I said, for [00:21:00] example, Switzerland got the three count boxes, Hong Kong, on the other hand, has plenty of all three sizes in the full 20 count boxes available all over the place. So it really does validate that, that.
Question that we discussed about, you know, how some of these markets are going to struggle to get allocation. So Habano
**Rooster:** chooses to ship which country, what they want to ship. And don't forget
**Gizmo:** where they have control of the distribution arm as well. They want more of the pie. And we're seeing with this Partagus Linea Maestra, that coming to fruition.
Germany also received the same sampler set. They're retailing in Germany for 490. Retail for three cigars. And they also have some in Chile as cigar aficionado detailed here, but only in one size. They only sent the maestro size to that part of the world. Does it come with the lighter and the cutter? It does not [00:22:00] come with the lighter and the cutter.
Well,
**Senator:** it's only 400 something dollars. My bad. They're giving us a steal.
**Gizmo:** So finally, same thing, you know, we talked about these same markets, Spain, France, United Kingdom have none of these cigars right now. So Habanos is, uh, definitely moving in that direction of changing how they do their distribution.
**Rooster:** Now you had that cigar.
**Gizmo:** I did. I had it at the festival. I did get the sampler box, but I got rid of that. But, so, what was your opinion about that cigar? You know, I don't want to pass judgment on it because they're so fresh at the festival that I've never felt, they're not, you know, they're not well humidified. They're over humidified.
They're fresh cigars, probably rolled within the last at least four to six weeks. So I don't feel like passing judgment on that cigar. And certainly in that environment, there's noise. There's thousands of people there. It's not under the microscope. But
**Senator:** even when you had it, I mean, kind of like our experience with the Aliados, was it a dramatic departure like [00:23:00] that was from what you would expect from Partagas or it was something closer to what you'd expect?
**Gizmo:** Yeah, that was the experience that we were having was that it definitely seemed like, um, like a departure from Partagas flavor wise, more mild. Than what we would expect from Parus. Maybe aside from the Lucita, which kind of is a mild to medium cigar, at least until you get to the last third. But I mean, I'm
**Rooster:** sorry, but for four $90, the cigar should blow you away.
Mm-Hmm. for three cigars for almost $500. It should be, it should be spot on. I mean, it should be, it should have parus DNA times 10.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And it really comes down to the, the blending of these cigars, like the Aldos we talked about. You know, which is certainly,
**Poobah:** I know we, we probably got a bad box, but cigar was, it was, it was a major, major, major disappointment.
I mean, talk a great presentation. It was the building construction was great. Everything was great about it. It just tasted not. Great [00:24:00] at all. It was great, but the taste. No, no, but it just, you know what I mean? You're like, wow, look at this thing. It looks great. It's the same with the maestro boxes, by the way.
I mean, no, I mean, the presentation is beautiful. The linear maestro from Partagus. Yeah. Really nice. And they didn't preview even well enough where you're like, time would make this better. That cigar. It didn't preview where you're like, okay. You know what? I can see the potential like in the Ramon alone is number two in the racing green box where you're like, okay, you're like, I get it.
This is going to be great in a few years. There's no doubt about it. And it ended up being one of the highest rated cigars on our podcast. But we all pre when we previewed it, we all knew it previewed great, but just needed time. This cigar didn't present itself in that fashion at all. And you know what's
**Gizmo:** interesting about bringing up the alley autos.
From Partagus. And like you said, I think we rated it [00:25:00] in the sixes. I did not rate well, I've gotten some emails, like even tuxedo, Timmy, he said, you know, he's talked to a lot of folks who've had the Aliados and they had a much better experience than we did.
So I don't know if we had a bad box. We had a box early in production. We know that early on when they started producing them. So who knows, but it was not a cigar that performed well. And like you said, it definitely didn't preview well. So, we'll see what happens with Habanos here with the presentation of these cigars.
It seems like they're definitely gonna be, some are gonna be coming, the higher end stuff is gonna be coming in smaller quantity. Uh, probably because they don't have a ton of them, but we'll see what happens.
**Poobah:** Yeah, look, I mean, I think people have to stick with what they can get and what they know is good.
**Rooster:** I mean, this, this cigar that we're smoking now, it blows away the Aliata. Not even the same league. Yeah, for sure.
**Gizmo:** So speaking of, what are you guys getting right now? We're well into the first third here, about an inch in, I would say, three quarters of an inch. What's everybody thinking?
**Rooster:** The predominant [00:26:00] note that I'm getting now is nuttiness.
Yeah.
**Grinder:** It's
**Rooster:** a sweeter, it's almost like a, like a peanut now.
**Grinder:** I would, I would, I would concur on that. I think, I think it's, I think this, the almond nutty sweetness has been fortified. I don't think it's really kind of gone up or down too much. Um, but it's just very, it's Ramona Iona's deliciousness. I don't know how to describe it any other way.
**Rooster:** Yeah, I think the pepper has definitely dissipated a bit.
**Grinder:** I never got it. The nuttiness has
**Rooster:** kind of, initially I think we, the pepper was there. Now it's more nutty and creamy and, uh, maybe a little leather.
**Gizmo:** Leather. Yeah. Leather's a good word. That's a good one. Yeah. It is a leathery smoke, for sure.
**Pagoda:** I think Russo, you haven't been paying attention to Poober's commentary at all.
I haven't. The first inch can be very peppery, you know. You've got to let go of the first inch, maybe purge a bit. I purged. I'm just kidding. I'm just [00:27:00] kidding. Playful pagoda.
**Rooster:** Playful. So when you say you put in overtime, is that what, 4pm?
**Pagoda:** Yeah, by the way, um, I had some great lunch, uh, today at Calari. What did I say?
What did I say? What did I say? Three, three hour lunch. How long was the lunch? Three hours? Well, it, uh, morphed into a really, uh, pleasant evening at, uh, the Bryant Park, uh, cafe. By the way, you act as if
**Gizmo:** we record in, like, we, we don't record that late. We start recording around eight o'clock.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I was trying to get the right train.
It's a
**Rooster:** long lunch, Chris.
**Pagoda:** But listen, you know, you get a little bit distracted. The sun's peeking out of the clouds. It's beautiful weather. You know, the birds chirping. You're outside. Pretty girls are talking to you finally. Finally, you know, my confidence is high. You know, life is great. I'd love to see it if I got it.
**Poobah:** This is great. I love the [00:28:00] emerging man.
**Pagoda:** Out of the cocoon right? Oh man. Abundance.
**Gizmo:** Fly baby, fly. Oh, I love it. So for any listener out there who's looking for history on Ramon Iones, we're not going to do it on the podcast tonight. We've done six other Ramon Iones podcasts. Uh, cigars here. We've rated six others. I'll review the ratings a little later on in the program, but if you're looking for a little bit of history, you can review any of those all the way back to the Ramon Aonis specially selected, which we did on episode nine and more recently, the most recent cigar that has come out of Ramon Aonis regular production is the number three, which we did on episode 109.
So we've done quite a few. We'll go through the ratings later, but. If you're looking for history, please, uh, please check those out. So boys, let's talk about our pairing tonight. We are revisiting a cognac that we did quite some [00:29:00] episodes ago. We did the XO version of this. This is the Camu VSOP. Very special old pale.
Have you guys taken a sip yet? I've taken a couple sips.
**Senator:** You like it? Delicious. I've taken several. The flavor notes in this. Oh,
**Gizmo:** wow. That is very good. That's my first sip.
**Pagoda:** The aroma is like, like, this is crazy.
**Gizmo:** That's really good and really nice with the Cuban cigar, as I think most cognacs are, but this is, uh, this is really, really nice.
**Ricky:** I'm getting some citrus, uh, citrus peel. He is sitting in bed. Yeah, it's
**Senator:** that chair. It's that chair.
**Ricky:** Mainly orange, mainly orange. Some sweet floral. And I mean, also, you know, you guys, you guys may have done it already, but allow it to run down the sides of your tongue. Uh, and that's, you know, the viscosity hits it and the richness and the creaminess that really goes well [00:30:00] with the stick here.
Um, it's, it's going great. Yeah.
**Grinder:** Definitely orange. I, I don't, maybe I just didn't pinpoint it at first, but it would, it's, it's clearly orange. Once you said that. Yeah. There's like
**Ricky:** orange vanilla. It's creamsicle for me. Yes.
**Senator:** I just think that the notes in the cognac pair so well, because if you think about a lot of the cognacs we've done, you know, certain brands have these like very distinct notes that I think would in some ways kind of clash with this.
Like Martell, we all picked out like a really intense cherry note. I think like, there's nothing, I don't get any cherry in this cigar. I don't think that would really add anything to this. You think about um, Hein, which some of them are like a lighter expression of VSOP that I don't know would be as rich and structured as you'd ideally want a spirit to be with this particular cigar since, you know, Ramon really in everything they do, it's a richer flavor profile.
So I just think, like, this particular [00:31:00] cognac, um, and just how Camus approaches, I think, how they, uh, how they make this. The flavor notes just pair really well, and I think, like Pupu was saying, like, it has enough structure to hold up to this cigar. And you're not losing the flavor of the cigar. The cigar's not overpowering the cognac.
To me, they just kind of dance perfectly with each other.
**Gizmo:** I think the Cognac is standing up very nicely to the cigar. And I think, you know, the cigar is at this point now about what a half hour in. It's starting to develop a little bit for me. It's starting to add some, I would say, complexity that maybe wasn't there on the light or the, or the first half an inch.
And I think this, this Cognac, you know, it's a really, really good companion to it. I'm curious what you guys think. This is a 65 VSOP. What do you think of the price versus what we're getting out of it?
**Grinder:** I think that's very fair. I think that's a great price, yeah. Not great, like, not, not great, but to, to Senator's point, that's a fair price, for sure.
**Gizmo:** Had I not known what the price was and somebody asked, I would have assumed this was closer to 80? Yeah. With [00:32:00] how it drinks, I, I think that the price is I think it's a value price on it. Honestly, I'm 65.
**Grinder:** I'm so high on cognac right now. So it's like. Cognac. Cognac. I mean.
**Ricky:** That was my, that, that was for me to do.
Chef, Chef Ricky. Chef Ricky poured
**Grinder:** me like half, half a finger. I was like, nah, nah. What do you, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta help me out. Cognac.
**Gizmo:** So we did the Camu Exo on episode 115. We actually did that with the Cohiba Pyramides and I think Senator did a full history. On Camu, but what's interesting is this spirit.
This expression is actually called the Camu. Intensely aromatic VSOP. That's the official name of it. And there's some pretty cool details on the box that I wanted to share. It says at Camu, we create an intensely aromatic cognacs of exceptional character with no compromises in their making. This character is based on three key cornerstones, which we rigorously and expertly adhere to when producing [00:33:00] our award winning cognacs.
So let's go through those. Wine distilled with the lees. We select the finest wines and keep them unfiltered. To extract their aroma enhancing components. They have a unique distillation process exclusively hand distilled in small pot stills using a highly precise non automated technique. Ricky loves to hear that to preserve the distillates most aromatic elements.
And finally, 100 percent small oak cask aging. They mature in lightly toasted small barrels to ensure a deeper reaction. Of the O to V, correct? That's French. Oh, to V with the wood. It's called O to V, O to V, O to V.
**Senator:** The thing that also works well with this. If you guys remember when we did,
**Gizmo:** I don't know
**Senator:** what that means.
When we did the, uh, the camu XO. It was the, the bordery, which is the region in Cognac. bordery. The bordery.
**Poobah:** The
**Senator:** [00:34:00] bordery. Let's get Poobah, let's get Poobah out of Napoleon. Yeah, Napoleon loved
**Poobah:** Camus, apparently. Camus bordery. Where's, we, we, we. Bordery, bordery. Bordery, bordery,
**Ricky:** bordery. The Olde V is the colorless brandy made from fermented fruit juice that has been distilled twice, so.
That's, I guess, the bait, the cognac piece itself.
**Poobah:** Can
**Ricky:** we
**Senator:** just, can we put a beret on Buva? By the way, I love last week, he's, last week,
**Gizmo:** he's railing the French. This week, he's talking in French. The Olympics are
**Grinder:** starting.
**Senator:** That's right. The Olympics
**Grinder:** are coming. And the Tour de France just ended.
**Senator:** Anyway, just to, just to quickly finish on the, the XO that we had, if you remember, it was from Borderee and that particular part of cognac.
All the cognacs there have this like floral note and floral character about them. And there's no doubt that this is probably a blend maybe from a few of these regions, but there's no doubt that some of that's present here. And that's why, like for me, it pairs so well with the cigar because we've been getting some floral notes in the stick.
And I think you're also getting [00:35:00] that in the cognac.
**Ricky:** Great call, absolutely. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Lots of floral notes present here that are really highlighting what's in the cigar as well.
**Gizmo:** And I think like a few of you have touched on, I think the body of the Cognac pairing well with what I think is a medium affair in this cigar, you know, that kind of Ramon Ionis, a little bit more oomph to it than a lot of the other brands out of, out of Cuba, certainly a sister cigar to Partagas, they're in the same family.
I think it's a very appropriate pairing tonight. So, uh, and what's nice, like I said, it's 65 bucks a bottle. I think it's a real value.
**Ricky:** Senator, not to stir up anything, but are you retrohailing yet?
**Senator:** As I have said, I retrohail inadvertently.
**Ricky:** Okay.
**Senator:** And it's, it's great every time it happens.
**Ricky:** I've seen
**Pagoda:** some smoke come out of his ears.
I'm
**Ricky:** just bringing it retrohail on this after a sip, of the Cognac. It's absolutely delicious. Yeah,
**Senator:** it's really nice. Well, you [00:36:00] ask him, have my tasting notes been inaccurate, uh, chef?
**Ricky:** No, they have not. They have not. So
**Grinder:** my retro hale is a little spicy. I'm not gonna lie. Very spicy. Yeah. It's like, it's like the baking spice switched from like, It's like, I don't know, coriander and, and like softer baking spice to like, pepper.
Exactly.
**Ricky:** Maybe it's time for a purge. You're big on the purse
**Gizmo:** tonight.
**Ricky:** I'm not getting, I'm not getting the pepper now. That's why. I haven't been getting it since. I'm going to do, I'm going to do this. I
**Gizmo:** would say my, my retrohale is like a spicy floral.
**Ricky:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** You know, I'm getting more of the nuttiness and the slight sweetness, I would say, in the traditional draw and more of a spicy floral through the nose.
**Grinder:** I think, I think it, I think it tones down the spiciness. It like, it like softens the edges. Yep.
**Ricky:** Yep. So on the retro, I'm getting creamy, cedar, nutty. Some floral and then when you do it, you know after having a sip of the cognac You have the citrus notes there that are present that just kind of elevate [00:37:00] everything and bring it all together
**Pagoda:** I can't lie.
I've been trying to retro hell today and What do I say? The amateur me is still the amateur me. I get just a lot of smoke and I go It's all out. I have no idea How to distinguish the flavors. Pagoda, with that nose,
**Ricky:** you're gonna have, you're gonna get some great notes, man. Are you making
**Senator:** fun of the guy's nose?
Oh my
**Poobah:** lord, this is racist.
I think you gotta be, really be into the flavor profile of the cigar to like it. It's, it's not that I don't like it. It's, I just don't. You're not excited. I don't love it. It's, it's not. At this point in the cigar, it should be doing more for me, especially where we are, where it's not like, it's not blowing my hair back really that much.
It's a little one dimensional. I mean, I'm picking up some of the notes that folks are talking about, but [00:38:00] it may just not be my, it may just not be my thing. I'm not sure what it is, but like the expression of it.
**Pagoda:** It's
**Poobah:** bold. It's, it's, it's just not my, like, I want a little bit more sweetness, a little bit more sweetness. A little bit. There's like, it's not rough edges because that's not what it is. It's hard to describe, but it's just not like, you know what I wondered, it's not my, it's, it's not something I chase.
Like it's just doesn't feel like it sounds like you're saying you want more flavor. Like I want different flavor. Well,
**Gizmo:** here's what I
**Poobah:** wonder. Cause there's flavor there, but you're an outlier in
**Gizmo:** the room tonight. In one factor that we detailed your draw, you said was wide. Oh, it is. And none of the, none of the other six of us have wide open draws.
We all have resistance, slight resistance, whatever word you want to use. I wonder if [00:39:00] yours, not that it's a wind tunnel, like a, you know, a big. Ring gauge a new world, but I wonder if the draw is factoring into your experience tonight.
**Poobah:** No, it's drawing perfectly. It's just not at this point. It's not something I'm thinking about chasing at this size and this kind of a time investment for me.
Um, it's not bad in any way. In any way, it's just not, it's not blowing my hair back. I'm not getting like, but I think,
**Gizmo:** I think to our, all of our collective earlier points are overall, overall, it's not, wow. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with this, that it's not wow. But I think when you reach for a cigar of this size and you think about the time commitment, it really is something where you're saying this like you really setting it up.
You're putting it on a pedestal before you even light it. I mean, this is a cigar. It's not a low, low cost cigar. It's [00:40:00] a high time commitment cigar. So you, you pick up a cigar like this and you say, you know, I really hope this. Blows my socks off and I kind of like it.
**Rooster:** I like the cigar. I am. I love I like the aroma out of the foot It's delicious smoke, you know, and I think that it is a little bit one dimensional very I agree with you.
Yeah Yeah, but not I mean, it's not so flat right? Yeah, I mean there is flavor It's, you know, I mean, you are getting some, some, you know, the pepper is dissipated. You're getting that floral and you're getting the, uh, the nuttiness. Maybe you're missing the baking spice if, you know, because you like that baking spice.
I think Pooble wants a Sir Winston. You know what it is? It's so, no,
**Poobah:** no, no. It's so hard when like, I, I, I really hate to compare. Make these types of comparisons. But like, I think what did, what did we have the other night? Senator on, on, on our, on, on my deck, the Cohiba, uh, the SIG five, you have [00:41:00] some of these Cuban cigars and they're just so good, like they're so good.
A few days later, I'm having this and I'm going, you know, this is, this is also a 40 cigar, a Ciglo five. Well,
**Rooster:** There was a bit of a price, uh,
**Poobah:** disparity there. No, I understand all that. And, and, and I get it, and it is a bit one mentioned the
**Pagoda:** love 14 at your place. Oh my Lord. Well, that's the thing. I mean, let's not compare
**Senator:** to a, I'm, I'm, it was, can I, can I bring some order to this?
I'm not trying to, I think everyone agrees with UBA that yes, this is not a wow cigar. No one is sitting here saying that this is one of the greatest Cuban cigars they've ever had. I think we agree on that. I think where there's some disagreement is, you know, Poobah is, it sounds like somewhat disinterested with the cigar.
And I think Rooster, certainly myself, maybe some others, I'm still interested in the cigar. I am too. I think there's enough flavor here [00:42:00] that I'm, I'm enjoying it. I mean, I'm not even halfway through the cigar. What's going to really tell me whether this can keep my interest is particularly at the halfway point, if I'm starting to get something new or different, there's some transition or changed in a cigar this long, that's going to keep my interest.
And I'm going to be excited about that. If the last third picks up a bit in strength, like a Lucy, like some other double Corona's do. I'll be very pleased to see that. So the jury's still out for me, but honestly, from the first third, I'm interested enough. I agree it's not overly complex, but there's enough flavor and flavor notes that I like and pursue that it's still keeping my interest.
**Gizmo:** I find this to be a very relaxing smoke. Like, I feel relaxed. Uh, I'm, I'm drawing slowly. I'm taking it slowly. I, you know, obviously the size of the cigar demands that this cigar demands that, but I, I'm enjoying the experience of the cigar. It's not wowing me at this exact moment, but I still am holding out hope for development as we get into the second, third [00:43:00] and, and, and into the end of the story.
So I think
**Grinder:** I'm ahead of everybody. Is that fair to say? So it's definitely changing for me in, in fairly positive way. It's, it's adding some different character. I'd say, um, once you guys get there, let's circle back. Let's Jen Pesky it and see where we are.
**Poobah:** Jen Pesky consulted speak at political. We're checking boxes and I go back and Jen Psaki.
Oh, Jen Psaki. Yeah. Oh,
**Gizmo:** so I wanted to talk about Senator. Took a little vacation across the pond and visited our friends in Italy. Tell us a little bit about your trip. What, you see, where did you go? You went to Florence, correct?
**Senator:** Florence and Tuscany. Um, it was amazing. I, I, it was my first time in Italy. I, for something business related, missed out, uh, I was supposed to go to Rome with, uh, my wife years ago and, and wasn't able to, so I was very glad to finally make this happen.
Um, we stayed in [00:44:00] Florence as our home base. And then every other day, um, I had rented a car for the week. We drove out into Tuscany. Uh, we did a day in Montalcino where, uh, all Brunello comes from. We did a day in Chianti. Um, we visited some other towns like Siena, about 45 minutes outside of Florence. Um, I made a few observations.
One, Tuscany is stunningly beautiful. Like, I've spent a lot of time in Napa, you know, Sonoma. I like wine. And so, you know, American wine countries. I shouldn't say easy. It's, you know, you're flying cross country, but easy enough and it's beautiful out there. But Tuscany is just a completely different level.
It's just rolling hills and just stunning greenery. It just feels endless and so expansive. Um, we were in. Uh, Chianti, we went to this, uh, vineyard that actually was the original home and birthplace [00:45:00] of, uh, Verrazzano, the explorer, uh, and now it's this like stunning winery that they have there. And he made a great bridge in the city.
Yeah. And, uh, the views were just unbelievable from this place. Now, I think I've said on this podcast before, I have never been a fan of Italian wine. So for me, And I, I've always operated this way. Like there were certain types of wines that I haven't loved. And I try to challenge myself to figure out why someone appreciates this so much.
I mean, Ricky was the perfect example of, uh, sorry, I almost, I almost stopped myself as if he had a lizard day. We had
**Ricky:** to use Gordito. You weren't here for the last one. It's Gordito.
**Senator:** But you know, Ricky was a catalyst for this. Like, uh, we talk about, you know, Mezcal that was a spirit that I've never had a positive experience with and so I said if someone's maybe gonna change my view on it It's gonna be Ricky and he was successful.
So I kind of took the same approach in Italy in Chianti I will say I still don't love [00:46:00] Chianti. I find it just too oaky It just dominates the kind of flavor profile of the wine. Um, I see why some people like to pair it with pasta. It's not bad. It's just not really my thing. But Montalcino, where Brunello comes from, I am all in on Brunello.
We visited this vineyard, um, Poggio Antico. Great spot. Um, the, the wine, it's just, I think a lot of the red wine that we've done on this podcast that you guys have appreciated are like Bordeaux style blends. They're like not overly sweet and like just berry bombs like certain California wines can be.
They're balanced and complex and that's very much the style of a Brunello. Brunello is 100 percent Sangiovese, the grape. But where they grow it and just these plots of land they have, I mean, one tastes really different, you know, from another and it's just all about kind of the conditions, the terroir right there.
[00:47:00] So this vineyard in particular, I must have tasted seven of their wines. I think this is one of the few. If not only places that every single thing they poured was excellent. I had not one complaint. And then, you know, the thing is Brunello is not cheap. Like your average Brunello is probably like 80 bucks a bottle.
So it's not like an everyday, you know, table wine that you're going to drink. What I really appreciated discovering there also in Montalcino, they make, it's called Rosso de Montalcino instead of Brunello de Montalcino. And it's basically just a younger version of a Brunello. And the price point on these bottles is like 20 bucks.
Awesome. Like, I could not believe how good, so kind of a secret, if you don't want to drop, you know, 80 bucks a bottle on Brunello every day, but you really appreciate the flavor profile, look for Rosso di Montalcino, and find just from a reputable vineyard, they're all roughly in the 20 something buck range a bottle.
Excellent value. So that was a revelation for me. And then the other, [00:48:00] uh, thing I appreciated super Tuscans. So a super Tuscan is at least 50 percent Sangiovese grape, and then they'll blend into it either just Cabernet or Cabernet and Merlot. And it's a little bolder than a Brunello, but smooth and easy drinking and just really just, um, has a lot of structure, but not an aggressive amount that you couldn't just drink it on its own.
As opposed to having it with food. So, uh, Super Tuscan's and Brunello, all in. That aside, Florence itself, I went with my, my wife and, uh, uh, our two year old, and I have never seen a more kid friendly place than Italy. That surprised me.
**Gizmo:** When, when you sent that photo saying how much he was enjoying it, I was honestly surprised because when you think of these places that you're talking about, you don't think that it's a very kid or toddler friendly even destination.
So why was that the case? I think it's
**Senator:** cultural. I mean, [00:49:00] honestly, in Italy, They just adore children. It's so family oriented. They're like, if you just look around, like everyone in Italy, everywhere brings their kids. It's like not a thing that certain things are for adults. And like, you really probably shouldn't have a kid there.
Everybody brings their kids to everything. They love seeing little children everywhere we went. People are wanting to like give gifts to my son. I was just blown away by this. Like we went to this amazing restaurant for lunch. It's just outside of Florence and up on this insane hill. And you just have a sprawling view of the entirety of Florence.
Very nice place. Very expensive one would say overpriced, but the experience and the food is so good that even a silly amount of money You'll spend it's honestly worth it and the manager there like he's like, I really just wanted to give your son something It was like this handmade little like backpack for my [00:50:00] son that like looked really that I'm like This is not like some, you know, shitty little giveaway that you would get So just the hospitality Off the charts, the food.
I had a funny experience where I probably very naively assumed if I'm in Italy and I go to any decent or reputable restaurant, the pasta, the food's got to be great. I mean, it's Italian's making, it's going to be leaps and bounds better than what we have here. Um, That was a foolish assumption. Like the first night we were so exhausted.
Foolish, but reasonable. I think that's a very reasonable assumption. I felt silly just because the result of it. I'm like, what a stupid thought. Because the, the Delta between like just an average restaurant that you find that like has good reviews and like, you know, seems like a nice place versus somewhere you've done some research and like, you really know, like, this is a spot that you have to try huge.
I mean, the first night we were so tired, it was 14 hours to get there. We had to connect through London. And, um, I said to my wife, like, you know, you just, you put our son to [00:51:00] bed, I'm going to go grab, like, take out at a restaurant, um, near the hotel, and then we'll have some dinner on our, on our balcony. And I had gotten, like, some pasta dishes.
I mean, honestly, the pasta was, it was not very good. I was, like, shocked. Really? It was really like, I would never eat it again. And so Was it
**Gizmo:** better or worse than like an Olive Garden? I mean, better than Olive Garden. I'm just asking, I'm just
**Senator:** asking.
**Ricky:** Don't knock Olive Garden.
**Gizmo:** I didn't, that's what I'm saying.
I mean, I
**Ricky:** think Olive Garden's pretty good. What does Chef Ricky have to say about this? We are in Jersey after all. That's
**Gizmo:** true.
**Senator:** That's true. A lot of good Italian
**Gizmo:** around here.
**Senator:** So that that was a the trip got off to a disappointing start because I was just kind of shocked like what's going on here? This is not what I would have expected and then once we started going to places that we planned to actually eat at Oh my gosh, the meals were just unbelievable Uh, the food was outstanding.
So, um the city itself florence. I mean, there's so much to see there It's packed with tourists Um, but it's so walkable [00:52:00] like I couldn't believe I mean even with our son and we're just pushing him around a stroller I mean we walked like Seven to twelve miles every day just seeing stuff like there's so many amazing museums the Uffizi there you can see original Botticelli and Da Vinci and the academia has the you know, the statue of David that Michelangelo carved like the art the history The architecture just all of it is stunning.
So I can't recommend Italy enough very Most importantly, very cigar friendly.
**Pagoda:** That's going to be my question. I said, you've talked all about everything. But what about the cigar smokers?
**Senator:** Very cigar friendly. The first thing I noticed. Cigarette friendly. Well, that too. That too. I mean, to put this point, I'll never forget.
When I was in high school doing some program, Uh, at like a, it was hosted at a college in New Jersey. Um, there were Italian exchange students staying at the same university we were at. And, oh [00:53:00] my goodness, these kids would have a tin with rolling papers and friggin tobacco and they, you would just see in one evening, you'd come out the next morning, there must have been hundreds of cigarette butts all over like the front steps of this dorm.
I mean, they chain smoke like crazy, it's insanity. Uh, cigars in Italy, the first thing I noticed, we're like walking to our hotel, And, uh, just on the street, I see like a Robusto size cigar that someone must have just dropped down. Like you could see a little smoke coming from it. And I was like, all right, that's a good sign.
Someone's walking around the streets, lighting up a stogie. Um, and then the hotel we stayed at. It said it was a no smoking property. So I was a little worried about this, but that's why I booked a big suite there that had this like huge wraparound, like balcony and patio. So I'm like, no, one's going to know if I'm smoking a cigar out there.
So that was kind of my home base, but we're on the top floor. And right across from us, they have this really nice like rooftop with a, like [00:54:00] pool and bar and, and, and food and all that. And, um, it was always open, you know, later. So I popped over there one night and I asked the one, I said, you know, Am I allowed to smoke up here?
And she's like, of course, and I, I literally read it's a non smoke, no smoking property. So clearly none of that matters in Italy. And, um, lit up a cigar there every night, beautiful view. Um, they had like proper cigar ashtrays, not just little cigarette ones. So, um, very, very cigar friendly.
**Gizmo:** I tried that same approach at the Marriott Marquis in Manhattan and I got arrested.
I was in jail for three nights. Can we, can we,
**Grinder:** can we just step it back? You weren't in jail for three nights.
**Gizmo:** No, I was kidding. He might've smoked a lot of
**Grinder:** different cigars. What's legal and what's not legal in New York City baffles me every day.
**Poobah:** Exactly right. You could be smoking crack. That would be okay.
**Senator:** The most famous thing you would get in Florence is a Florentine steak. What's like funny. This is, I haven't seen this on menus. You've all seen this on menus here. [00:55:00] And I've always wondered like, what's so different or unique about a Florentine steak.
**Ricky:** So here it's usually like a shitty steak with spinach and tomato or something like very thin.
So what was it there?
**Senator:** That's like completely bastardized. It's not at all supposed to be like that. A Florentine steak in Florence is super simply prepared. It's literally just like salt and pepper on the steak. That's it. It's the, they have these like special, like cows there that. Apparently like the quality of the beef and you can taste it.
It's like super like naturally flavorful where like, you know, some beef is like kind of bland and they've got to put a lot of seasoning to like really get some flavor going with the steak. It's like minimal seasoning. The beef is so flavorful and super, super tender. Um, they're awesome. I mean, it's basically like a massive porterhouse, um, that they stayed if it
**Ricky:** was aged at all, dry aged.
They're dry aged there. Yeah. Yeah.
**Senator:** Yeah.
**Ricky:** I
**Gizmo:** bet that was amazing.
**Senator:** Oh yeah. Really good.
**Gizmo:** So what was your cigar [00:56:00] situation like? Were you smoking three cigars a day? Five cigars a day? Oh a lot. One a day?
**Senator:** Oh no. A lot. Uh, probably five a day. Yeah. I mean, I'd have one every morning. Like, um. Um. Every morning, one in the afternoon, my kid went down to nap one with dinner and then like multiple into the late hours of the night.
**Gizmo:** It's so unlike you. That's awesome. You got to smoke. I mean, you know, so many places you go in the world, you vacation and you struggle to find a place to smoke or even being able to. So to have that experience at the place you did with your kid there, your wife there to still be able to smoke. I mean, that's a, that's a big deal.
Yeah, for sure. That's a beautiful
**Grinder:** country. Great steak. Good sandwiches, kid, family friendly, and they let you smoke.
**Gizmo:** We're coming into the halfway point. Now the Ramon Ionis Gigantes from Cuba, I am experiencing a little bit of a pickup here in both flavor in [00:57:00] draw combustion. And overall it's, it's progressing a little bit better for me than it was.
I would, I would say in the first half, what are you guys experiencing?
**Rooster:** I'm a little bit on the opposite end of the spectrum on that. This is the point where. I'm not getting intense notes that I was getting earlier. This is the point where it's getting a little one dimensional.
**Ricky:** Yeah. I'm
**Rooster:** right there with you.
I don't know if you know how you guys feel, but that's where I'm at.
**Ricky:** I don't know if it's because I'm not at the halfway point yet and I'm almost there, but yeah, I, I almost forgot about the cigar, hearing the stories and whatnot, and, um, you know, quite frankly, I haven't really been smoking it because I slowed down quite a bit.
Um, So maybe I'll get to that, that transformation or change. Yeah, I'm kind of
**Rooster:** getting more out of the smoke from the foot. Yeah, the actual,
**Ricky:** the aroma is delicious.
**Rooster:** Yeah, and the actual, you know, when you, when you, when you [00:58:00] smoke the cigar.
**Senator:** For me, I'm getting more of the same. It's not a bad thing, but it's not great in that I am chasing and hoping for a transition and a pickup.
So it hasn't happened yet.
**Pagoda:** A bit more strength, I think. So I kind of agree with you in a way. But in terms of the flavor profile, nothing's really changed a lot. It's been reasonably monotone for me. I think the flavor profile for me has definitely picked
**Grinder:** up. I think it's, um, a very pleasant cigar. Um, draw's been great for me, even though it's just a smidge tight.
And the It, it's kind of the leather notes that Rooster mentioned earlier is now a little stronger than the nutty. It's leather over nut.
**Rooster:** Mm, it's true . Yeah,
**Senator:** I agree. .
**Gizmo:** So it's a leathery nut. So Uba, has yours gotten any better or No,
**Poobah:** it's, it's just a little one dimensional for me to be honest. Okay. And then, [00:59:00] and it's not kind of delivering what I, what I, you know, what I search out for in a cigar.
Um, at this point, it's not bad. in any way. It's just not, it's, it's, like I said, it's gonna, it takes a lot to keep your interest. Um, yeah, for this length of time, for this length of time and, and, and, um, So for me, that's where I'm at.
**Rooster:** I was really enjoying Senator's commentary about Italy. Makes me want to go there.
Yeah. I
**Poobah:** want to go to, you got to do a lizard. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's flat for me. It's a little bit, it's, it's getting more muddled. Then it wasn't the light on the light and in the, in the kind of the first third of the cigar, it was very interesting. It was nutty. It had some fruit notes.
There was some sweetness to it. To me now, everything's kind of coming together in, in kind of a hodgepodge of flavor notes that when you pile them on top of each other, [01:00:00] they don't add up to some of the parts don't add up to something better. So I'm not, it's not keeping my interest at all. And there's a long way to go.
There's a long way to go. There's a really long way to go. So that's the challenge. Hopefully it picks up the challenge with these Vittolas. Yeah. It's about the
**Rooster:** size of a RAS now.
**Ricky:** It is. Right. I see a rest in your hand. I think. Gizmo's just proving to us that smaller cigars are the way to go.
**Senator:** Hey, I didn't want to say it, but thank you, Ricky.
In fairness, this is, this is a long cigar, but it's not that aggressive in ring gauge. It's a 49,
**Gizmo:** so. So, Senator, tell us about your experience with British Airways, who, by the way, you've been a fan of in the past.
**Senator:** I used to love BA. Like, truly, flight attendants on BA years ago, Some of the nicest, friendliest people you'll like ever see in an airplane.
**Pagoda:** You loved everything British, didn't you? I wouldn't go that
**Senator:** far. Don't get me started. There are way [01:01:00] too many rules in the UK for me. He's no anglophile. I need another few. If you think people went in on Napoleon, get me going on the Royal Family. I'm not going to even start there. Um, but I used to love the airline.
The flight attendants were amazing. And if you fly like in business or first class on that airline in the past, like never forget my first BA flight in business. They had an entire page of the menu that was just different champagnes. You fly business on any airline, they have maximum two champagnes.
You're lucky if you even get more than one. There must've been eight champagnes. I mean, that, that flight, I, of course, I were one of every one. I had to try the ball.
**Gizmo:** It's for the podcast. It was great.
**Senator:** So I've just always had these great experiences. And so I was like, you know what? This is actually going to be good.
A book business. This won't be terrible. As long as my kid doesn't go berserk on the flight, which there, he was not bad back. And this is partly BA's fault. And I'll get into why with the big delay. [01:02:00] It was rough. Um, I feel sorry for the people that sat near us, that business cabin. But, um, on the flight there, number one, if you're flying in any cabin, but especially in business or first, the goal of the flight attendance is as soon as possible to feed the meal when you have an overnight flight so that everybody can get as much sleep overnight.
That's like the most important thing that you need to do. Everyone is going to be happy if you serve the food quick and they got in sleep. And if you take too long and people only get an hour or two asleep, Everybody's pissed off. That's exactly what happened on this flight. They couldn't get the food out to everybody.
It must have been over two hours into this flight. By the time they were done, and I even just said skip dessert like this is insanity. And then they have all the bright lights on because there's people are still eating dessert. My kid needs to go to sleep. I'm tired. I was so agitated. And then everybody finished desserts and they just kept the bright cabin lights on.
I had to call flight attendant. I said, do you guys plan to dim the cabin lights [01:03:00] already? She's like, we will. We will. Like they realized they screwed up. So the flight there was not a good experience. They weren't super friendly like normal. And the flight back was awful. Awful. Like, I, the flight attendants were universally, insanely rude, and the thing that stuns me, when the, the tickets were booked, I guess, for both, or for one, I assume it was for both, and that tells you that, like, the flight attendants going there were half decent, the ones going back were just assholes, where You I think I'm one of the seats.
So like my son was a lap infant because he's under two and even if I paid for an extra business class seat for him, he, he won't sit there with a seat belt on by himself. He'll just run out because
**Gizmo:** they're big seats. I mean, they're huge. Oh yeah. They're life flats. And he's,
**Senator:** he would literally just run across the aisle instantly to be with me or my wife.
So, uh, I guess on the reservation there was like one of the meals pre order was like, they have an infant or toddler meal or something like that. And that was going to be for, I guess, my son to eat. So none of this was an [01:04:00] issue going there. Like he had food, we had food, everybody was fine. It was just late on the flight back.
They like bring out this infant or toddler meal to my wife. My wife looks at me. It's like, what, what is this? And I'm like, I guess that was the infant meal, but that must be for our son. And then they bring out like my meal. And then I say the flight attendant, I'm like, where's my wife's meal? And the flight attendant's like, uh, well, the order on the ticket was for an infant meal.
So that's your wife's meal. And I'm like, what? And so I'm like, my son wouldn't even eat the infant meal. It was terrible. And so I'm like, you can take back the infant meal. Nobody's eating that. Not even my two year old. And I said, just bring, you know, what my wife would like to eat. And the woman is like, no, the infant meal was ordered.
Your wife will eat the infant meal. This is literally what she's saying to me. This is like, I mean, the amount of money that you spend on these
**Gizmo:** seats, I'm not going to, it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. Sure. And so. But I mean, listen, with a two year old, if you're able to do it, you got to do it, right?
I mean, you do it
**Senator:** for anyone. So this is then I got to do it. [01:05:00] The woman then sees I'm clearly upset. So she goes and brings over like the head flight attendant, who's another woman who basically says the same thing, mildly nicer, but still rude. And I said, let me just be very clear. I have flown your airline a ton in the past.
If I'm not happy, With the meal that you have brought out countless times, I've seen customers in business say they don't like the meal, the entree they ordered. And so what your response should be and what it always has been is we're happy to bring something else once we serve everyone, whatever is left, we'll tell you the options.
And we'll happily bring you out whatever you'd like. That's the standard response.
**Gizmo:** Like there's always extra food on these flights. Can I say just quickly, it's not even just for business. When you fly international like that, even in coach, you're getting a meal. Like even domestic airlines that you know, in the United States here, those same airlines flying international are like completely different animals.
Totally. Completely
**Senator:** different chicken. And you're like, the chicken's like rubber and you [01:06:00] want something else. And you'll tell them and they say, sorry, once we serve everyone else, I'll tell you what we
**Gizmo:** have. And you'll get the pasta. So that's not unique to business. Obviously it should be elevated, but that's just a normal airline courtesy.
**Senator:** It's insane. And so the woman is like arguing with me about this. And I said, so let me be very clear when you're done serving the cabin, you will let my wife know whatever food is left and you'll bring her out a meal. And the woman's like, I don't think there's going to be extra food. 10 minutes later.
The other, this guy, the other flight attendant comes over and I hear him say to my wife, um, uh, miss, uh, all the options are available. What would you like? And it's like, you sat there and bullshitted me and told me there'd be no, no leftover food. Every single option they had in the menu, they had leftovers.
So in any cabin, that's not an acceptable response. In business on that airline, completely inappropriate. And on the flight back, even we had a two hour delay from Florence to London. That was not like weather or anything. It was some BA bullshit. And so, and we were on the [01:07:00] ABS. Yeah. And we were on the plane for this.
So like my kid is obviously really antsy. He's just sitting there. We're doing nothing for two hours. Then that flight's like, I guess, three hours. And then we almost missed our connecting flight, which would have totally screwed us because we wouldn't have gone out till the next day and race through the airport.
If anyone's flown through Heathrow, you know, how miserable that airport is. These security people, oh my god. Like, if you travel with a little baby or an it or a toddler, they make an exception for like, food. You know, he has little pouches and crap that he eats. That's not subject to the liquid requirements.
You tell them it's a diaper bag. This is what they even tell you in the airport. And of course, His bag gets flagged, some asshole at this airport is making a huge deal over a thing of benadryl, of children's benadryl that's in his bag, and literally says that he's not allowed to bring it on the, that they have to dump it there, can't bring it.
I'm like, [01:08:00] children's medicine and food is exempt. Your own staff told me this right before I put it on the conveyor belt. She's like, I don't care what they told you. That's the rule. Does he have a prescription for it? I said, it's Benadryl. It's over the counter. You don't need a prescription for Benadryl.
She's like, nope. Can't take it. I, the whole scene there, this is why, like, the UK.
**Ricky:** Wow.
**Senator:** I'm over the UK. I'm just gonna say that. UK's out. I blame Brexit.
**Grinder:** Honestly,
**Pagoda:** just a quick question. What lamb then to do an option?
**Senator:** It was not, that would have been better than everything else they had on that fucking menu. I'm serious. It was horrible. How disappointing. I mean, for business
**Gizmo:** class to give them this attitude. And the TSA to bust your balls about kids stuff is just
**Senator:** crazy. And children's Benadryl. It only comes in one size.
I even like, I think it's like 4. 3 ounces and it needs to be under 4. Like, that's the only thing they sell it in. All right, so dump 0. 3 ounces. Exactly. Let me take the rest. [01:09:00] Exactly. So
**Ricky:** stupid. It was insanity. Wow. Dump it there to then buy it on the other side.
**Senator:** And don't even get me started on a British breakfast.
The most disgusting breakfast in the history of civilization. Jeff Beans? I mean, it's like fucking blood sausage. They have this thing that like looks like bacon, but it's so not like cooked and rendered. Ham. That it's ham, that it's just fat. That it's not at all rendered crisp. Like it's disgusting. It's the most important meal of the day.
**Rooster:** You must have had the plant based ham. Bacon, bacon.
**Grinder:** A traditional English breakfast is a heart attack, for sure. Yeah,
**Senator:** and it's disgusting. I don't know how, it's like I'm sitting in the lounge, I look at these people and they're like, Oh, a British breakfast. Can you believe what we have? And I'm just sitting there like, this is fucking disgusting.
How do you guys eat this stuff? Jesus Christ.
**Gizmo:** So on the positive side of your trip, what I'm curious about for listeners out there who want to go to Florence, who want to go to Italy, what kind [01:10:00] of hit list items, any recommendations for folks like to have the best possible trip other than purchasing a private flight or something?
**Senator:** Great question. So stay somewhere near like central Florence because everything is so walkable. It will just save so much time trying to get cabs and all this other stuff. You can cover everything you want to on foot. As long as you say anywhere in central Florence, that'd be number one. Um, number two, as far as like the litany of touristy things that you can do, the two museums absolutely have to visit the Uffizi, um, and the academia.
That's where like all the most famous artists. One tip I'll give listeners that a bunch of tourists get fooled by and thank Hopefully I did the homework at least to not fall into this trap. There are all these companies that BS you and tell you that you can pay extra through them to skip the lines at these museums because the lines can be insane.
It's complete nonsense. [01:11:00] It's not possible. There's no special VIP, anything like that. It's all through one website. And these companies are just buying the same ticket on that website, charging you more and lying and pretending that you'll get in faster and you will not. Um, but the thing that you should do is buy in advance.
That's really the trick. So if you don't buy your tickets in advance, the line to just purchase a ticket that day at these museums, and you likely won't even get a slot that day, you'll be buying for like a few days in advance is insane. If you buy your tickets in advance online, all you do is show up in a 15 or 20 minute time window they give you to enter.
And that line is super easy and you'll have no problem. So the Uffizi and Academia. Definitely a must hits have to get out to Tuscany. I would not, if you're in Florence to me, it is outrageous to just spend every bit of your time there. Tuscany is the highlight for me. If I I'd go back to Tuscany, I would buy a house in Tuscany.
Like [01:12:00] it is just amazing. Um, so definitely do that. Rent a car. The price of getting like paying for. A car to like drive you around for a day. I got quoted eight, nine hundred euros a day. Wow. Which was stupid. I rented a car like, uh, I, I had rented like a BMW SUV. They ended up giving me an Alfa Romeo, which actually wasn't bad.
But um, it cost me like a thousand bucks for the whole week. So, do not use these stupid services, just drive. Once you're on Tuscany, the drive is so beautiful, very easy. Driving in Florence itself is a little crazy. Um, people seem to think that the sidewalk is appropriate to drive on, just like the street.
That's what Pagoda thinks. Who does that here in Hawthorne? Do they have Teslas there?
**Rooster:** So, would you, would you stay in Tuscany as opposed to staying in Florence?
**Senator:** So, if you've never done any of the tourist stuff and seen Florence, I would spend some of the trip staying in [01:13:00] Florence. I would do like maybe Split your days.
Two or three nights in Florence, and then the rest in Tuscany. If you've been to Florence, I'd do the whole thing in Tuscany. It's just so stunningly beautiful. Like once you've hit everything there is to hit in Florence. There's no real reason to spend a lot of time there. But if you haven't seen Florence, I would definitely spend at least two, ideally three nights and just hit every, there's so much to do there.
Um, it's amazing. Do people
**Rooster:** generally
**Senator:** also eat late? They do. So this was the hardest thing about being there with a two year old.
**Rooster:** That's how it is in Spain. Nothing, no restaurants open until 9 p. m. Well, you show up at eight and like they're still closed
**Senator:** there. It's like the earliest is seven. And the problem is like my kid normally is going to sleep at seven.
So to my point about how kid friendly Italy is and Florence in particular, there's a few like very kid friendly restaurants that will open at six, knowing that parents need to get their kids down early. So we do like six to seven and then [01:14:00] like book it to the hotel and then just try to get them down after that.
Um, so there are options, but most places, like the earliest you would find a meal is seven o'clock.
**Rooster:** And they're open late. Yeah. Like twelve, one o'clock, I would
**Senator:** imagine.
**Pagoda:** So Rusa, there's hope for you.
**Gizmo:** So I, really my final question as far as the listeners go is, bringing cigars, buying cigars, did you see any cigars in your travels or, I'm sure you brought everything with you, right?
That you smoked?
**Senator:** I brought everything I smoked. I saw like a few of these shops that like are tobacco shops and say they have cigars, but I, I mean, it, it looked like such a joke outside. There's no way they had anything serious in there. Um, I had read there used to be an LCDH in Florence. I think it closed down years ago.
Um, so I would strongly advise bringing cigar. I did not see anything there that suggested you'd be able to find and buy like a decent selection of Cuban cigars. You really ought to bring what you're going to smoke.
**Gizmo:** Well, I want to go to Florence now. And
**Senator:** Tuscany. Oh, I'm in to go back to Tuscany. But not through British
**Gizmo:** Airways.
Not through British Airways.
**Senator:** [01:15:00] Alitalia.
**Gizmo:** I'm gonna fly United. Honestly, you probably
**Senator:** have a better experience with United.
**Gizmo:** So, speaking of Florence, Italy, what's interesting, while Senator was there, our friend Kirby Allison, that we talked about a few weeks ago, posted a video that he was also in Florence. I was wondering if you happened to run into, uh, Kirby while you were in Italy.
Did you guys have a cigar together? Or No, I didn't see it. Compare notes on the Clothing share
**Rooster:** hangers
**Gizmo:** or shine shoes together. So I bring that up, uh, in Jess, but we did have quite a bit of feedback on our commentary on the Kirby Trinidad stuff, the cigar aficionado. Uh, commentary that we had, and I wanted to share some of that.
First, a bunch of it came from FOH. Those guys are very supportive. First came from Mr. Birdman. He said, it's a stellar podcast, guys. That picture of Kirby smoking a cigar while two Cubans changed his tire is disgusting. That's No wonder he's so obsessed with the English aristocracy. His [01:16:00] emotional intelligence is on par with the Royal family.
He said, uh, current listener of the week right there. Send him some merch. Kirby isn't making cigar content like the lounge lizards and crew anymore. He's acting as a shill for Habanos, says Mr. Birdman. To be honest, I hope they're at least paying him. Otherwise, his Habanos content over the past year or so has been pathetically quote unquote thirsty, as the kids would say.
He's clearly gunning for HSA Man of the Year, which admittedly might not be a terrible investment if it still comes with two boxes of Year of Your Choice, which, by the way, if you win Habanos Man of the Year, you get two boxes a year of your choice for the rest of your life. I'm sure it takes a year or two to get it, but I guess you can at least ask for it.
He says, I find it appalling that you've never heard a mention of Cuba's devastating situation. In his videos also a common comment. I see made about him as he's made his money on youtube Well, i'm sure his youtube channel has gotten him a lot of free stuff and allowed him to duct his suits as a business expense I believe most of his money comes from [01:17:00] elsewhere.
He doesn't get nearly enough views to afford the lifestyle And I do believe this is his full time job now that and running his website. Another one came in from Gary, Gary K. He said, great podcast, good insight on Cigar Aficionado and Kirby. Well done guys. We heard one from Johnny O. He said, Giz, besides being a phony that doesn't know how to tie a tie.
I don't think your boy Kirby Allison was in much of those places. He did the videos without the use of a green screen. I didn't even think about that. I I'm not sure. He said, how do I know? Okay. There's not a drop of sweat on that dude. When the lizards go to Cuba next time, I want you all dressed up as dandies so you can tell us how long it took you to ditch the sweat soaked clothing.
It was a great show, though, John. That's a good point, because there is air conditioning nowhere in Havana, Cuba. And Kirby went to Trinidad, and Certainly wasn't sweating. So I don't know if he changed his clothes a few times. Here's an interesting one. This was, this one was a little more critical on Instagram from lover of [01:18:00] the leaf on a different note, guys, if you're expecting a supposed mouthpiece for Habanos to do anything other than highlight Havana in the most positive light, that is your mistake.
He's not my cup of tea either, but I get his hustle. Anthony Bourdain wasn't on their payroll. Therefore he was able to speak freely. Now, obviously our, you know, I replied to him. I said, you know, as an American citizen from Texas, he shouldn't be working for, and with Habano SSA. Which is a joint venture between the Cuban and Chinese governments that in and of itself is a major problem.
So, you know, I, I, again, we've talked about this with, with both Kirby and CA and not to beat a dead horse, but, you know, these American folks supporting and, and elevating the Cuban and Chinese governments, the way that they have, I just think is, Totally inappropriate.
**Senator:** And I'll just say this, even to try to be reasonable and charitable.
It's one thing to choose to work with the Cuban or Chinese [01:19:00] government. Everybody has a right to do whatever they want to do. But when you're actively lying about the situation there, that's what I have a problem with. Like, just tell the truth. People are struggling there. Havana is not this pristine, you know, just awe inspiring place.
Havana used to be that, and the government has failed its people, and if you walk down any street in Havana, there are crumbling buildings all over the place, and yet you watch these videos, and it looks as though, like, Havana was just built last night, and everything is pristine and new and perfect there, and that's just a complete fiasco.
Lie. Terribly unfortunate.
**Poobah:** He has an image. Well, he's an Anglophile. Big time. And he's with the, you know, and he's up the Sahakim, the Sahakim's ass. Um, he is. I mean, you know, he goes to the Davidoff, uh, goes to the Davidoff store in St. James. And he sits, he, he, he sits with the, the, with the Sahakians, right?
And the, the, the, and they, [01:20:00] they sit down and they bring out age Davidoffs from the cellar and smoke them. And he has his Seville row custom made suit and custom made shoes and custom umbrella, you know, it's a little bit weird. I mean, like to me, when I watched. When I've watched his stuff, just out of curiosity, um, none, if, if this is folks, this may be, it's clearly some folks cup of tea and I get it.
And that's fine. If that's your thing. Sure. If, if bespoke shoes on made on, on, you know, on St. James or whatever, that's fine. You know, if that's your thing and you're into that, that's cool. But the problem is he doesn't make that. That's what frustrates me. He makes hangers though, right? But it's just, [01:21:00] The whole, I, I find him a little bit odd, but you know, uh, people clearly watch them, they like them and, um, you know, more power to him if he's, you know, he's, you know, trying to commercialize this and, and, and he does it, uh, I agree.
I agree with what Senator said. I mean, you know, characterizing Cuba is, is, uh, you know, and romanticizing it in the way that he does without kind of being transparent about what some of the problems are. You know, I have, I, I have an issue with that. I don't see how anyone couldn't have an issue with that.
And yes, he is, of course he's changing clothes. I mean, you, you can't be in a full suit walking through Trinidad, Cuba, right? Without an ad with the trade, you're sweating inside of three minutes. I mean, it's, so it's a little bit. Of a, of a, you know, it's an act. Sure. Uh, and, you know, [01:22:00] but he's a YouTube personality
**Gizmo:** like, you know, Senator said, and I think we have said multiple times, uh, I'd have no problem with it, honestly.
I would've no problem with any of it if it was just an honest, without going into Cuban government. You don't need to, you know, come at them with a, with a. With a gun. You just need to just be honest about what's happening. So boys, very exciting tonight. We have a new segment. We've never done this in 143 episodes on the podcast.
I
**Ricky:** think you need an applause track.
**Gizmo:** I do. We are going to each week, pick either a, an email from a listener, a voice memo, a great YouTube comment, a great Instagram comment, whatever it may be. And we are going to pick a lizard of the week and we are going to send them from our. Mailing address here at the lounge, we're going to send them some cigars.
We're going to send them a fabric of five cigar, and we're going to send them either a new world or a Cuban, depending on what episode we announced. They're winning the lizard of the week, [01:23:00] but each week, moving forward, we are going to send out some cigars. So as a listener, listener out there, a lizard listener, send us a great email.
Send us a great voice memo each week. We're going to pick someone. And this week's winner, the first winner of this. Is a gentleman named Lizard Craig and Lizard Craig, Craig writes lizards. Thank you for your intelligent, informative, and highly enjoyable podcast. I discovered it last year on FOH and I've listened to 95 of the episodes so far as I smoke Havana's also almost exclusively the new world reviews have been eye opening.
I've gone deep into Padrone. And expanded my collection of Davidoff because of your podcast. Again, thank you for the podcast. Keep it, keep it up. I have a note for gizmo on the box code list. I checked all of my box box codes against the list and I found one anomaly. So he points out that he had a box of poor Lauren Yagamani Carlos with a box code, uh, LGR.
September 17 LGR does not show up on the list for 2017. He [01:24:00] says, I was able though, to verify the serial numbers with Habano SSA. And he sent me some photos and whatnot. So there's two points I want to make on this for lizard Craig here. Number one on the box code document, which you can find on our website, lounge lizards, pod.
com. It's very important to note first LGR is on the list where you see the codes is only at the point that the codes changed. It's not a, there's not a listing for each year. So he's saying that he doesn't see LGR September 17. It changed a year or two before that, and it just held in place for that time.
A good example now is that the codes haven't changed in over two years as of today's date, July something in, They haven't changed since 2022. I don't know when they're going to change. Honestly, I would have expected they changed already surprised they haven't, but they have not. So it's important when you're looking at that box code document to obviously look at the, the list, find your code and make sure it aligns generally with the timestamp [01:25:00] on your box.
But it is not scientific as nothing in Cuba is very scientific. And we only list when the codes change. So I would imagine. In the next six months or a year, there's going to be a new list of codes that we're going to be trying to put on that document for everyone. And we will share that when it becomes available.
So the other, are you exonerating yourself? Giz was it correct? Or no, it's a hundred percent correct. Yes, of course. Just, just making sure. And I sent him the details. He said, Oh yeah, yeah, I see that. I see that. The other thing I want to mention too, is the serial number. Verification on the Habanos essay website is really not a good metric of authenticity.
That, that is very compromised. That system. There's a lot of codes that come up as authentic boxes. It's really not the best starting point. The best starting point is always Providence. Where did you buy your box? Where did you get it? Did you get it on bond Roberts? Obviously they have a great system there for vetting things, but really it starts at the retailer that you purchased it at, you got to make sure you're buying from [01:26:00] someone legit.
So.
**Rooster:** I just, I was just going to say like a couple of cabs that I have off the poor Laranaga, the, uh, Petit Coronas, they're both LGRs. That's a very common, uh,
**Gizmo:** I think that's a La Corona mother code. Yeah. Yeah. Mother factory code. That's a good code. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of good boxes came out of a La Corona LGR was that code.
So, um, congratulations to lizard Craig on winning lizard of the week. I'm going to send him some cigars from us and, uh, from Fabrica five. And, uh, Yeah. So if you want to win some cigars from us and a little note, uh, definitely send us an email, voice memo, or great comment. And, uh, you can definitely win on a, on future episodes or some merch or some merch, we're going to give away some lizard merch.
Yeah. We'll announce that each week, moving forward lizard of the week. So I have another email here. This is from Lizard John. He says, hi, Giz. Have you guys used a company to organize your trips to Cuba, or have you done it yourself? [01:27:00] Can you recommend a tour group or service to help with the logistics, i. e.
Airbnb, etc.? And if you did it yourselves, could you please share how you went about making that happen? So first off, we have never used a company to organize our trips to Cuba.
**Pagoda:** We have. No, we have. Lizard Inc. Oh, no, no. I was about to say Giz Vacation and Tours.
**Gizmo:** Giz Tours, Inc. Lizard Tours. Coming up next.
That's coming soon too, hopefully. So, uh, He says, if you did it yourselves, could you please share how you went about making reservations? So first off, we've not used a company to organize trips to Cuba. We've done it all ourselves. Uh, the most important thing for American citizens, this is not for folks outside the U S inside the U S you cannot stay in government owned hotels.
Everybody else in the world can stay at the hotel. You know, at the park is in trial. anywhere else. You cannot stay in government owned hotels. If you're an American, you got to go to [01:28:00] Airbnb. That's what we do. When we're looking to go on a trip a few months out, we look at Airbnb, we find a listing we like, just like you're going on vacation here in the States.
You book the place you like, and you go from there as far as, and
**Senator:** guess what? For the American listener. That's not a disappointment. That's preferable. I mean, if you go to any of these hotels, you will quickly see these government hotels. The service is bad. They're not going to have access to everything that you think they should.
A Airbnb set up is fantastic. It's like
**Rooster:** British airways,
**Gizmo:** Cuban airways. Uh, so the other thing, I mean, as far as reservations and whatnot, there are a few restaurants, Cinco Sentidos, La Guarida, if you decide to venture there are so many others that we've talked about. Uh, on our Cuba recap episodes, all you have to do is go on their website, shoot them an email or a WhatsApp.
They'll get your reservation very quickly. Most of the places that we go, though, I feel like unless you're in a big group, generally you can just walk in and get a table, [01:29:00] right? Is there cha, cha, cha, some of the others. I mean, you just walk in and get it, but yeah. Um, and, and as far as entertainment, the Tropicana show, you just go on their website.
You can pay with a normal American credit card. And purchase tickets to see the Tropicana show. And then, I'm assuming that the question is about visiting factories and whatnot. That's really not something that we've done through any tour companies. I have no experience with that. We have no experience with that.
We've just gotten lucky, met some folks, and now we have access. But you can visit a few of the factories, namely the Romeo factory. And I believe the part of his factory is also able to be visited. But as far as getting a tour of the place, I think it's very much up in the air. Uh, El Liguito though, that is a closed facility.
You really need to know someone to get in. We've been very fortunate here, you know, very humble about it. We're very grateful, but, uh, there's really no easy path, uh, to get into El Liguito. Well, Cuba in
**Rooster:** general, it's all about experience. It's all about going there once. Learning and the next time [01:30:00] it'll be much easier.
And every time you go, it's going to be much easier. And it's all about, you know, creating a network, getting to know some people and, uh, and each time you go, it'll be, I think it'll be a better experience for you.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So I think we've been there, what, six, seven times in the last two years, probably, uh, among the group here.
And, uh, you know, as Rooster saying, every time you go, it just gets easier. It gets more fun. It's just more fluid. And I think there's just a, you know, developing a callus for. The constant changing nature of visiting Cuba is just an element of, I don't want to say the fun, but an element of the experience that everything is just constantly changing and up in the air.
So if you have a great Airbnb, a great home base, everything else can fall into place. So you really want to start with that.
**Rooster:** Also go without any expectations. I mean, it is, you know, Cuba has its challenges. So you want to, you know, just kind of go in with no expectations and, uh, and you learn. And each time you go, I think it's, you know, [01:31:00] also the country changes.
I mean, the, the currency keeps changing. So, you know,
**Gizmo:** it's very dynamic. So thanks to Lizard John for writing in. I have another email here from Lizard Ray. He says, hello, lizards. My wife and I are heading back to Havana for our fourth time. There's a guy who's been there a few times. It's certainly a lot easier for him.
He says we were there previously in 19. This time we're going to Havana to meet a close friend of ours to celebrate his 50th birthday. I'm a long time listener and I appreciate your guys effort and giving your listeners information that is relevant. The podcast is always worth the time to listen to. I also appreciate the timeliness of the podcast released on Tuesday and you guys giving each other a hard time.
It just plain works. I guess this is the long way. To say, thanks fellas. I've been meaning to send an email of thanks for a while, and this gives me the reason to do it. I've relistened to your podcasts on your most recent trip to Cuba that some of you took. This will be our third stay at the Casa Particular above the Cinco Centito.
So that's the [01:32:00] restaurant we talk about all the time. He stays in an apartment above. Cinco centitos, which is pretty cool. It's a good area. It's central to everything. Yeah. Old Havana there. It's a great area. And very similar to what you were saying about Florence. You really don't need a vehicle. You can walk to everywhere from, from old Havana there.
So that's, that's a great location. When I heard you guys describe the restaurant on your podcast, which by the way, we said is probably our favorite in Havana right now, I had to laugh and nod my head. The place is excellent. A lot has changed on the islands since 2019 and we don't have a learning curve.
But we will able to, we will be able to handle it. Luckily we have the owner of the Casa particulars that we are staying at. We can trust exchanging money. Shouldn't be a big problem. Most places taking us dollars and my friend's Canadian. So he has Canadian credit cards. If need be the two questions I'm reaching out to you are what is the best way to get tickets for a tour of the La Corona factory?
And how do I get into the Tropicana? To see a show. So like we just said, Tropicana, you just go on their [01:33:00] website. I think it's Tropicana Cabaret or cabaret, tropicana. com. Just Google it. You'll get tickets. It's very easy to get tickets and have a great experience. The one recommendation with the Tropicana I would say is do not get the ticket with the dinner.
Do not order any food at the Tropicana. Very similar to the government. Yeah. Don't do that. And also don't go on a rainy day. Don't go on a rainy day. That's a great point. So, yeah, that's, that's a very good point. We went once we booked tickets on a rainy day and because the Tropicana area is an amphitheater.
It's open air. So when it rains, they actually close the amphitheater and they move the show inside into a very, very small theater. And it's probably, what, a quarter of the size? It's Not the same experience. So we left and came back another day. So that's a great recommendation. Only go to the Tropicana when it's not going to be raining.
And if it is, call them and they'll move. And bring cigars. Bring cigars. You can smoke there. Yeah, that's a great experience great [01:34:00] experience smoking cigars during the show as far as tickets to visiting the La Corona factory Very similarly what we just said about Lizard John's email visiting factories Cigar factories in Cuba is an up in the air thing.
There's no way to book tickets. There's no way to book tours There'll be people that can tell you they can take you on tours. I would be very hesitant with that Uh, there might be a way if you find a concierge at the Parque Central or something like that, a legitimate operation, they might be able to help you organize something if it's available.
But again, it's a very fluid situation. Like even us, we've booked appointments with friends at factories and then things change at the last minute and we have to adapt. So there's really no way to lock it down with an appointment.
**Rooster:** You could just try showing up at La Corona and maybe if you're lucky, they might give you a tour.
The
**Senator:** worst thing is they're going to turn you
**Rooster:** away.
**Senator:** Yeah.
**Rooster:** I think unlike, uh, Laguito, Corona is fairly a little bit easier to get into. And that'll be, they might, you might [01:35:00] be able to get a tour. Yeah. I definitely, the Romeo factory. Romeo
**Gizmo:** factory. You can definitely get in there. But yeah, I definitely would not show, don't show up to, uh, El Laguito.
But to your point, Corona might work. But as far as booking tours and tickets and whatnot, that's not available. Um, most of the year anyway, if you go during the festival, Habanos festival. They do have some tours that are arranged. Uh, but of course that's a high ticket and you have to commit to, um, a lot of different stuff.
So he says any other info that you can think of that wasn't in the podcast would also be appreciated. I really think we were pretty complete with our Cuba recaps. And as we go back, we'll share more. He does say your podcast makes me look forward to checking out the new part of the shop and cha cha cha.
Other places we haven't gone to are Vans Vans across the street from Cinco Sentidos. I think we went there and he said we also plan on going to the beach of Playa del Estes to check out something outside of Havana. Finally, he says, always thanks again for the podcast and any info you provide us. An appreciative listener.
Lizard Ray. So that's the story boys [01:36:00] on, uh, on Cuban emails for today. And finally, I have one more email from Lizard Dane. He says, Hey guys, I was wondering if you may consider posting an article or a podcast that has a rank ordering of your highest rated cigars, or maybe your top 20. So this reminds me of when Lizard Seagull posted.
You know, said, Hey, why don't you guys do a profile of each lizard on the website, your current flavor profiles, preferences, et cetera. So this made me think, you know, what do you guys think is the best way to post up our highest rated cigars? As lizard Dane is, is asking
**Pagoda:** do a pivot table in Excel. I think, I think like, uh,
**Senator:** are you volunteering?
I
**Grinder:** think just creating a top 10 list and then going down the list. It's similar to how, you know, other platforms do that, um, and share like a summary, a profile of each, um, where we can share [01:37:00] the scores and then obviously any kind of preferences that we have over them, that would be fun.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I guess, you know, on the, on the, on the ratings guide on the site, I can put a top 10 or 20.
The thing I was thinking, obviously each year at the end of the year, the last episode of the year, we do a recap episode of all the cigars and spirits we did, and we kind of go through that. We've done that. Uh, in 2022, 2023, obviously we'll do it again later this year, but that's a good way to check out on a yearly basis.
Some of the higher end cigars that we've done from a ratings perspective. So,
**Senator:** and spirits as well. I'm also a big fan of us just having something kind of annually. And the reason I say that is we have, we all have our like favorite sticks of all time, but every year something new gets introduced to us that we review.
That's like a big revelation and that that year. ends up taking, eating up a lot of our smoking time. And so to me, like that list changes and lives and breathes every year. So I think the annual piece is also important to this because [01:38:00] there are staples that are timeless, but there are many things we discover every year that Are just as important to especially,
**Rooster:** especially on the new world side.
Yeah,
**Pagoda:** sure. The Maduro, the David of Maduro.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. That's been a big hit. Has let me ask you this on the Davidoff Maduro while you mentioned it, has that kind of replaced the Dominican for you? Pagoda?
**Pagoda:** Well, I've, I'm out of Dominican. I
**Gizmo:** know that. So has it replaced that in your rotation? As far as I can't
**Pagoda:** afford the Maduro's a quarter at a time, you were working overtime,
**Gizmo:** he worked at overtime lunch today.
You just got a big
**Rooster:** raise.
**Pagoda:** One step at a time. Yeah, but the Maduro's are fantastic. And I think, um, I, you know, you know what it is, that like, if you go back to the previous episodes, I'm talking about probably a hundred episodes ago, a late hour was one of my favorites. And I think the Maduro just, you know, outshines the late hour for sure.
Um, and, um, Yeah, I mean, if I could, you know, source a lot [01:39:00] more of the Maduro's, uh, I think it would definitely replace it, for sure.
**Gizmo:** You know what's interesting, too, is that, you know, at, at, kind of what Senator said on an annual basis, and what you're saying as well, is how our palates have changed from episode 1, episode 50 to now, over those years.
I mean, the palates have changed, the discovery of new cigars, how our rotations have changed. Dramatically different than it was even, you know, even 20 episodes ago or 50 episodes ago. So that's a good way to do it is to look at the end of the year episode. And see how we're doing. But I, I, I'll look at putting something up on the site as far as rankings and ratings.
**Pagoda:** Absolutely. I think I smoked, uh, the, uh, thanks to Poobah. Uh, last week, uh, we did, uh, the Ashopman, the Lab 14, Lab 14. And I think I, I rated that nine. I think I was the only outlier.
**Gizmo:** You were the only nine on that
**Pagoda:** episode. Outlier. You should have never
**Gizmo:** given him one Poobah. How dare you?
**Pagoda:** But I can tell you it's a 10.
It's a 10. It's a 10.
**Rooster:** There's
**Senator:** no going back. Is someone changing their rating? [01:40:00] Weeks
**Pagoda:** last week, it was fantastic. That evening was spectacular.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys. So that's it on listener email for tonight. Again, congratulations to lizard Craig lizard of the week. We're going to send him some stuff. Uh, and if you want to win some cigars or merch from us, uh, please do continue writing in.
And, uh, send us some voice memos as well. We love, uh, we love voice memos. So, boys, we're coming to the end of our evening here with the Ramon Iones, Gigantes, and the Camu V. S. O. P. Any final thoughts before we move into the ratings tonight?
**Ricky:** Finally.
**Grinder:** Finally? Gigantes. I, I, I think it, um, it's a fine cigar. It's not the finest.
It's, um, I, I mean, it's just, it, it's got some good flavor, it persists, and then it persists, and then it persists, and then it still persists, and, uh, I'm, I'm done with it persisting, so I, I threw it, I put it [01:41:00] down, like, 20, 20 minutes ago, um, and it's, you know, like I said, it's fine, but it's just not, it, the, the experience is, is just too long, it's too much.
Um, that's my, that's my stance.
**Pagoda:** I think Poobah's commentary, I think it leaves something to be desired. Like, this, you know, it's like you're seeking something more, and it doesn't deliver.
**Gizmo:** Alright boys, well, let's move into the formal liquor rating on the Camu VSOP Cognac.
**Ricky:** Ricky, you're up. For me, uh, The citrus notes were great, the vanilla notes were great, some slight woodiness, oakiness there, um, I really enjoyed it.
It could've, I've, I've grown a bit fatigued of the flavor pairing tonight, it could've just been because of the length of the cigar, um, and there were times where, you know, just a great conversation happening, I kind of wasn't really drawing on the cigar a whole lot, [01:42:00] or drinking much, um, and I just think ultimately I, I don't want to say I got tired of it.
But it was delicious. It was good. I enjoyed it. I think for me though, I wanted a little bit more heat. I'm not sure of the percentage on that, but I wanted it to be a little bit brighter. Um, and it could have just been because of the cigar. There was something missing from the stick. Like I want it. pops and sort of highlights and it was just a very sort of level experience overall.
Um, so I'll give the cognac an eight, you know, again, very serviceable. The price point was fantastic on this, uh, very drinkable. But, uh, and I did, I did drink it with no ice, of course, uh, I would say maybe drink it a little faster. I think with any spirit, as spirits sit in your glass for a while, the flavor kind of tends to kind of just degrade a bit.
Um, then [01:43:00] you lose a lot of, uh, the potency and you end up with, uh, what's just kind of sweet. oaky notes in your glass. Um, so for me at times there were, I was losing some of those pops and, and, and, and, and that brightness from the spirit a little bit. Uh, and it could just because I drink a lot of mezcal and tequila, but it was a delicious cognac.
Uh, but I think overall, you know, the cigar might have affected my score just a little bit, uh, for sure.
**Gizmo:** Uh, by the way, to answer your question, it's 80 proof.
**Grinder:** I'm at an 8 as well. I concur with Chef Rikki's commentary. I think, um, I really enjoyed the smoothness. Um, I felt that the, the orange citrus flavor was, um, fresh and something different.
And, um, Yeah, I mean, it was, it was like, like to use that word, it was very delicious, [01:44:00] but it wasn't knock my socks off.
**Gizmo:** Okay, Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I've been debating between a seven and eight, you know, uh, to your point about the orange citruses, I really love the orange citrus, I've had a lot of drinks, in fact, you know, from tequilas.
I know Chef Rikki's over here. I think the Ocho rep has some of that, uh, you know, the orange things and I really tend to enjoy it. Um, but yeah, I, you know, haven't had a lot of Cognacs. I must say one thing about this Cognac, they're very, very aromatic. I think as soon as I picked up the glass, you could just smell it really.
So there was something very good. I think, uh, uh, I'll rate it an eight, uh, today. Yeah.
**Senator:** Okay. Senator. I don't, I don't disagree with much of the commentary, but for my palate, the flavor notes in this cognac, like it checks a lot of the boxes of what I would pursue and look for in most spirits like this. Uh, so I'm going to go a little higher.
I'm going to give it a nine. I think like Pagoda said, it's [01:45:00] very aromatic. I think for as much flavor as this delivers, it's super smooth. I mean, it's not, it's not the case that every VSOP cognac can be enjoyed without ice neat. I mean, even Remy VSOP, you'll want some ice with that. It's the Remy 1738 that you wouldn't need ice.
So, I think they've done a really nice job with this spirit. I think there's just enough complexity that keeps me interested. I took several sips even before. I lit the cigar and, and I think, you know, I agree like this cigar, it did not help this experience at all. I think on its own though, I was really excited at kind of the first sip.
And I think there, there was even, I think Ricky had called this out when we, we first had the, uh, the cognac, there was like a creaminess even that kind of like brought all the flavors together in a really nice way. I could definitely see myself drinking this again. I think the price point is very fair for the experience you get.
So I'm at a nine. I'm going to strongly [01:46:00] recommend.
**Gizmo:** So based on the other three scores prior to you, I thought I was going to be the only nine. But I am at a nine. I thought that this cognac drank very, very well at when we introduced it at about that 30 minute mark. We're a little around. We're right around two hours now, around that 30 minute mark.
I really thought it was super complimentary to the cigar. I thought they were both kind of working together. And then as the cigar progressed, especially into the last third, The cigar kind of faded very, very quickly for me. And the cognac has been the star of the show and I've gone for a second pour.
I'm enjoying every sip. I think it's complex. And I think at the price point at 65, like I noted earlier, if this was even a little more expensive, I'd probably still be at a nine. So at 65, I think the way this drinks, it's a really good spirit. It works really well for my palate. So I'm at a nine. Poobah.
**Poobah:** I actually, I, I thought the way chef explained it was And his commentary, I agree with every single thing he said in [01:47:00] terms of the spirit.
I mean, it's, I'd like, I would have liked something just a little bit brighter with a little bit more pop. I think the way you described that and that I would echo that commentary and also the commentary in terms of the, which everyone's mentioned is the cigar was kind of fighting with this. And I think that that doesn't, that didn't help it much at all because that creamy orange kind of thing.
Was like getting overpowered by what we can talk about later, which happened with the cigar, which was some things that weren't that positive. So for me, you know, I'm trying to separate it out. The whole thing, I can't give it a nine. I, um, but I'll give it a strong recommended an eight. I think it's a really, really good There were some really nice notes in here, orange cream, vanilla, very, very nice, but the cigar may have gotten away in my judgment and I'm trying to divorce those two things, [01:48:00] but I can't.
So I'm going to give it an eight for now.
**Gizmo:** Okay, boys, that puts the formal liquor rating tonight on the Camu VSOP at an 8. 3. I think that's a very fair score for the spirit. So let's compare that to the cam camu XO we did on episode 115 that rated very, very well at a 9. 5, which was an excellent spirit that night.
So 12 points lower than that. And now it's time to move into the formal lizard rating on the Ramon Ionis. He got us. Rooster, you're up.
**Rooster:** So, I mean, this, it is a big cigar. It's, it's almost what, eight inches? Yes. Like 49? Yep. So, in a cigar that's this size, a double Corona, you kind of want some variation in the third, in the first half, and then in the, in the last third.
The, the beginning, Was very promising. I think it started off great. We all love the flavor notes that we were getting by about the midway [01:49:00] point. Uh, those notes kind of started to diminish for me the last third. It actually did pick up a little bit. I mean, I thought it was kind of muted. But then again, in the last, the very last, like I'm still smoking it, and it did pick up a little bit.
So for that, I'm at a solid eight.
**Poobah:** I'm at a seven, that kind of nutty. I wanted that nutty almond with a little bit of fruit in the background. Think that in the first third to stick around a little bit while and then get more pronounced, but then it just got flat for me. It just went completely and totally flat.
I couldn't, it was, it was not. Um, and, you know, enjoyable for me. I mean, I can see how someone else, maybe this could fit in their wheelhouse and like it. But I, you know, I really had a hard time with it at this size to keep me interested this long. And it just needs to be, it [01:50:00] needs to be better, more complex.
It needs to be at least a two or three act play. And it really just got so flat for me for so long. It, it couldn't keep me interested, so it's a seven for me.
**Gizmo:** So I'm at an eight. I, I found the first third, especially on the light as we were getting into it, I was enjoying the notes. They were a little more timid, but I was hoping for more as it went down the cigar.
The second, third, I think was an eight in the last third was a seven. So for me, the average on that is an eight. I do agree with the commentary so far. I, I. I was wanting for more, you know, in a cigar like this, a time commitment like this, a price at 40, you know, when you're sitting down for two hours with a cigar, I think, and especially a cigar from Ramon Iones, which is a marker from Cuba that we all love in this room, no doubt about it.
And we'll talk about the other ratings. Yeah, it, it definitely disappointed me. And I think when you look at a cigar this size and you pick that up, it, it, you want it to knock your socks off. You do not [01:51:00] want to be bored. You do not want it to be timid, muddled, lacking complexity through a lot of the cigar.
And unfortunately it was, you know, it was not a great cigar. It was a good cigar. So for me, it's an eight. Senator.
**Senator:** So, I'm at a seven on this, and it, like, pains me to say that because the first third of this cigar, I was immediately saying to myself, this is going to be a nine or an eight worst case, and if, you know, they made a short format of this that just mimicked that first third, like, that would be a great cigar that I would happily pursue.
and smoke more of. The problem for me was the second third was the same profile as the first third, but even less interesting. And the final third, for me, the final third picked up a little bit in strength, which I was excited about as it was happening, but the flavor profile got totally muddled for me.
It was no longer like I was able to just pick out those clear and distinct [01:52:00] notes that we were getting. And And the final third, honestly, for me, just ruined it. So, um, you know, I give it a seven because I think for the first half you have a fairly enjoyable cigar. And I think that the second half is disappointing.
I think there's, I would hope with maybe some more age that that last third rounds out a bit. Um, and you're able to get more of those distinct notes. And I fully agree with, I think everyone before me has said this, that a cigar at this size, I mean, I've said on this podcast many times, I'm fine with a cigar.
That's a one act play. If it's all the notes that I want and it checks all those boxes, I'm perfectly happy with it. But at this size, you can't possibly have that and not get bored of the cigar. And that's exactly what happened here. There was no point at which we noticed a major transition or departure from what we're experiencing.
And so it's a soft recommend for me at a seven.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I think seven really works and, you know, kind of agreeing to both Senator and Poober. [01:53:00] Um, you know, I, I remember Senator mentioned that it got a bit sweet, you know, the sweet nuttiness and I, I experienced that too in the beginning of the cigar. I, and then it was really relatively very monotone and yeah, it did pick up in strength towards the end.
Uh, but you know, I, it's, uh, I tend to smoke cigars right to the nub, and this is one of the cigars where, you know, I did leave a couple of inches right in the end. I do touch it up a few times. I think the draw was also, you know, the resistance to the draw kind of also did not really, you know, make it relatively easy to just continue smoking.
While the smoke output was reasonable, um, Just overall the experience I think was, you know, considering the size, the price, is it something I'm going to go for? Uh, I'm not sure. I, you know, it's a seven for me.
**Grinder:** Alright, Grindr. I'm at a six. I, I think the size of this cigar is really, it really hurts it. [01:54:00] Echo all the sentiment, all the, all the thoughts.
Um, I thought it started off strong. I was hoping for more. The taste, I think, I think Senator kind of nailed it for me as well as the, it kind of picked up in strength, but the flavor that I wanted more of got less. And it's just so fucking long. And it's just like death by a thousand puffs. And I'm sitting here, I'm just, when is this going to fucking end?
And it's just like, it was too much for me. I mean,
**Poobah:** you're not wrong. I thought about giving it a six. I'm
**Grinder:** giving it a six. And I'm standing by that. I would never recommend the cigar.
**Ricky:** Ricky. Yeah. I think in Poobah's case, it was deaf by 600 puffs. And, uh, you're not wrong. Uh, I'm not wrong, chef. You know, I'm right there with you guys.
That first, the, the, the initial draw got me really excited, even though the, you know, it [01:55:00] was a little snug, you know, I S I started at an eight, I was very excited with the flavors I was getting, but as time was You know, just where you'd expect it to kind of pick up, it was just kind of flatlining a bit.
And, uh, you know, I, I think with my prior experiences with, with a Raz, you know, they tend to get stronger in flavor, stronger in strength. Uh, but this one, while it did have those moments where you thought it was going to pick up, it just sort of dissipated and it reset itself. Uh, and it just never came back to life.
And then you know, my luster started to unravel. So I just kind of put it down. Um, and yeah, you know, because of that, I am at a seven, you know, it's not something I'd be excited to smoke again. It is long. I think if there was a Robusto size, it'd be perfect. It'd be just the right amount, uh, to kind of keep you interested.
And I think something that's really important for the listener to take into account, you know, when we [01:56:00] sit here or rather when you guys sit here, I'm a guest and I've been fortunate, super fortunate to Do this maybe four or five times now with you guys, um, you know, we sit here and we smoke the cigar and there is intense focus on what we're tasting and what we're smoking.
So take into account that, you know, while we are having conversations and we're talking amongst friends, you know, the priority is, What we're tasting the experience we're having there's no distraction, you know, there's nothing else happening in the room There's no, you know, it's all about the cigar So I think for some people when they come across our scores and they say oh, well that scored, you know Awfully low, you know and and you and and you look at these like cigar aficionados scores where you know They're not smoking that entire cigar that may be smoking a third, you know putting it down They're probably just having you know you know, the best part of the experience for that, for that stick.
But here we're trying to, you know, just experience the entire cigar from [01:57:00] start to finish. In most cases, if it's interesting enough, and if not, then it gets put down. Um, and that's just, that speaks to the cigar itself. If it's not worthy of smoking the entire thing, especially at this size, then, you know, it can't be something that warrants a high score.
Um, not that seven's bad, but You know, it's a soft recommend at best.
**Gizmo:** Well said, Ricky and Boys. That puts the formal lizard rating tonight on the Ramon Ionis Antes at a 7.1, so just above a seven. Let's compare that quickly to other Ramon we've done on the podcast. On episode nine, we did the Ramon Ionis, especially selected.
Got a 9. 0 on episode 54. We did the superiors, the La Casa Del Habano release that performed very poorly at a 5. 7 on episode 55. We did the small club Corona, which got a 9. 0 on episode 76. This was a good one. The number two [01:58:00] edition limitada from 2019 is Poobah. Referenced earlier, got a flat 10. 0, one of the best cigars we've ever done on the pod.
And finally, the Ramon Iones number three, the newest release from them, in regular production, on episode 109, got an 8. 6. So
**Ricky:** clearly we're, we're fans of the marca.
**Gizmo:** We love the marca. And, and the thing I would say, Not only from the commentary in the room and our experience tonight, but also comparing to the other ratings, putting aside the superiors that we did.
I think that this cigar is completely divergent from what we all expected from Ramon Iones tonight.
**Poobah:** I was just thinking the same exact thing it because as you went through those and I'm thinking. What the, what all those different Vitolas tasted like this within the Marco, and I'm just saying to myself, yeah, this, this really was divergent.
It didn't taste like, didn't hold a candle. It didn't like, you know, well, yeah, it didn't really taste like something in that, [01:59:00] in the, in the family. It was, it was. Different in, in, in the, not in the, in, in, in a way that I, I really like
**Senator:** to your point. You're never saying with a Ramon Ionis, I want more in terms of flavor, like Cuban cigars.
It's one of the more flavorful Marcus. That's what it's known.
**Poobah:** Like it's not, it's not the most, they're not the most elegant. Things in the world, but boy, do they taste good and boy, are they pretty real? It's like they're pretty goddamn reliable and the price point is relatively reasonable. And it's one of those go to things that you always have in your humidor.
The small club Corona is like one of the best small cigars they're around. Period. Hard stop. I mean, the Rast, these are great smokes. The number two, which is one of the few limitadas that we've actually ranked high. You, you, you, you, you, if you look at all the limitadas that, uh, that, that, you know, that, that, that we've, that we've procured, I mean, it's [02:00:00] the only, it's probably the only one that's really broken through in a big way.
So the mark is a great market. That's why it's disappointing that we had such high hopes for this. We all
**Gizmo:** came in tonight
**Senator:** with high hopes. I have a question and then maybe a controversial conclusion somewhat exonerates Ramon Iones attempting to do what they've done with this cigar. What have we reviewed other double Coronas rating wise?
**Gizmo:** Great question. Let me run through them right now. Other Prominentas we've done from Cuba. I bet you it's
**Senator:** not as high as we think. That's where I'm going. I have a very. I have a thesis here, but here we go. Here we go. The punch, punch, double Corona.
**Gizmo:** Other prominent as we've done on the pod from Cuba, the same exact size.
There's three others in regular production on episode 56, the Lusitanius from part of us got an 8. 0. The, on episode 117, the Punch Double Corona was a knockout cigar, 9. [02:01:00] 8, close to a 10. And finally, the Hoyer Double Corona on episode 131 got a 7. 7. So this, out of the four Prominentes that we've done on this podcast, is the weakest by six points.
Maybe age has something to
**Rooster:** do
**Senator:** with it. But not, I mean, I've never heard you rave about it.
**Rooster:** No, it's not. I mean, I think it, the more it sits, maybe it will improve. I,
**Senator:** I just, my thesis is I mean, any, any cigar, any market that's attempting to make a cigar of this size. This is as difficult a thing as you can possibly produce, period.
To keep someone's interest for this amount of time, it's, it almost feels like an impossible task. And I mean, one cigar that you mentioned there did that. But takeaway, I'm not going to be pursuing double Corona's. I don't even care if prices today were what they once were. I just think this is like. A fool's errand trying to [02:02:00] pursue a cigar that's eight inches long that we think is going to hold our interest all that time.
Like it's just too difficult to pull that off. And I think we got really lucky in that we found one that's done it really well. But you know, even Lucy's like we've seen, you know, I mean, Gizmo practically cornered the Lucy market and he's had some cabs that smoke well and other cabs that haven't, that he's been really frustrated with.
And I just think like, You know, prior to going through this exercise of really trying all these double Coronas, I mean, I like a long cigar. I mean, we spent a lot of time at lounges that we have the time to put in for a stick like this being disappointed as many times as we have now, like, I'm not going to be chasing, you know, Lucy's even like I was, I'm not going to be chasing other double Coronas.
You know, I had one great experience. I think a bunch of us did with the oil double Corona. And it's like, we could never replicate that experience again. The rest were a huge disappointment in [02:03:00] comparison. So. For me, this has been a learning experience that I think I am in some ways writing off this Vitola as something that I'm going to pursue much of going forward.
**Poobah:** Yeah, you're better off, you're better off, you know, if you want a lot of smoke output, you want a big cigar, you know, hit an E2, hit a connoisseur, you know, I pull the connoisseur. Uh, out and I, I know not everyone, I know, I spoke
**Gizmo:** to Lubb 14, I need to, Hey, listen,
**Poobah:** you know, um, I think it rated pretty well when we've reviewed it.
I can't remember what I'm by my point is though, if you, that, that size. You know, you want smoke output, you wanna be a chimney, like hit that up to, to tuxedo Timmy's point, like, like hit up a larger reengage cigar with a lot of smoke output. You know what I mean? With a great, great wide open draw on it.
Yeah. It's supposed to fight in the draw this, it's opposed [02:04:00] to fight in the draw on this long. Cigar, this long double Corona. Like, you know, sometimes it just doesn't to me, get that blend. Right. I think is a lot harder to do. So, you know, for me, if I want a lot of smoke and I want something that's going to, that's the, you know, that's going to, that's going to light me up.
If you want something,
**Gizmo:** if you want something in the Ramon flavor profile, this is not even that cigar at any point, really, you know, you reach for a RAS and find something else and spend your two hours smoking, you know, a Cigar of some kind and a Rass or one of the others. I'd rather have two Rasses than one of these cigars.
Exactly right. That's our experience tonight on the Podboys. Again. The Camu VSOP had an 8. 3 and the Ramon Ionis Gigantes scored a 7. 1. We covered a lot of stuff tonight, boys. Senator, welcome back from Italy. Chef Ricky, thank you for stepping in and joining us tonight. Always a pleasure to have you. for having
**Poobah:** me,
**Gizmo:** guys.
We appreciate you. [02:05:00] And, uh, we'll see everybody next week.
**Poobah:** Keep smoking.
**Gizmo:** Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, LoungeLizardsPod. com. That's LoungeLizards, P O D, dot com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
If you have any comments, questions, If you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us. Hello at lounge lizards, pod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.