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Testing your ideas against reality can be challenging. Not everything will go as planned. Itβs about keeping an open mind, having a clear hypothesis and running multiple tests to see if you have enough directional evidence to keep going.
This is the How I Tested That Podcast, where David J Bland connects with entrepreneurs and innovators who had the courage to test their ideas with real people, in the market, with sometimes surprising results.
Join us as we explore the ups and downs of experimentation⦠together.
David J Bland (0:1.084)
Welcome to the podcast, Charles.
Charles Sims (0:2.768)
Thanks for having me, David. Glad to be here.
David J Bland (0:5.050)
I'm so excited to chat with you because I want to know the inner workings of one of my favorite sports in VA. β I want to know a little bit about how you approach sort of testing things and how you learn and how that's transformed how you're thinking about things today. But maybe we can start with you just giving a little bit of background on yourself and before we jump into some of our testing stories.
Charles Sims (0:12.910)
Yeah.
Charles Sims (0:28.600)
Sure. So I.
originally came out to LA in the entertainment industry of the business behind the scenes of working as a line producer and production manager, which was basically the person who manages schedules, manages budgets, β and I tended to always be the only one who knew how to use Excel and QuickBooks and got shoved into that corner pretty quickly. So while I came out here wishing one day maybe I could have been β an actor or a star, β I learned I'm much better behind the scenes making sure everything's running smoothly. β
I spent a number of years β in management consulting prior to actually going full time β as head of technology for the LA Clippers, which is usually where most of my stories β come from and stem from. So many β amazing... β
Draft day stories, of β where the shot clock is broken up until 20 seconds before the game starts, the breakdown of the server room from β flooding and we're using all these jerseys to be able to mop up the water β before we ruin our server room. β But spent eight years with them β and then was at β United Talent Agency for three years as β their CTO, leading β all their innovation technology with
in entertainment, which tends to be one of the more β legacy style businesses. β as AI really exploded β in that time period, I realized there's so much more to be able to be done in these smaller and smaller β businesses, almost even like the micro two, three person, billion dollar, trillion dollar businesses are coming from AI. So I leaned into that and started my own SaaS that helps. β
Charles Sims (2:13.026)
would-be entrepreneurs take their idea, translate it into a business deck with a pitch deck, market analysis, financial analysis, how much it's gonna be, blah, blah, blah, blah. β And β that led down the road of what we have now, which is a venture studio using that manifesto and framework to take any product that you have from zero to β full MVP and go to market within 90 days. β
David J Bland (2:37.009)
Oh, there's so much I want to talk about in your answer. I want to actually back up a bit because as much as I want to talk about Venture Studios and the impact of AI, can't neglect going back and talking about the Clippers. So unfortunately, I'm a Warriors fan, so I apologize in advance for that. But.
I'm fascinated with the NBA. I once gave a keynote and the head of innovation for the Orlando Magic was there. And I was just like trying to talk to him a little bit before my keynote. I was like, hey, what's it like, you know, inside? And it seems like it could be really creative and very stressful. And because you're putting on such a production and everything. And he was talking about, you know, these big markets. I said, LA is amazing market. Right. And his thing was, well, we're trying to be innovative and try to compete with.
these other cities. But now it's almost like the venture fund is the new Ferrari in a way β where β the big players want to go to places like LA because of the markets. And I just found like it's so amazing to see how β that impacts people's thought process or innovation inside their company. But if you can share anything about just, you know, from a CTO perspective, like what kind of risk do you run into? β
you know, being the CTO of the Clippers and how you try to address that risk on sort of like a day to day basis.
Charles Sims (4:1.166)
Well, let's go back to a couple of topics that you even brought up that I think will be very interesting to most folks out there. If you look at any NBA or professional sports teams, these are two, three, four billion dollar valued businesses. And if you think of any other industry that has a two billion dollar business, how many employees do think they actually have? Well, on average, an NBA team has between 300 and 750 employees.
a mom and pop shop as much as you think there's these dozens and dozens and everybody has all the help they could ever want. They are run like mom and pops. And so you have a billion dollar franchise or a multi-billion dollar franchise. That's the brand. But the people who are executing behind the scenes, it's as lean as possible. And what was what was nice, at least for my experience with the Clippers, there's a lot of that VC entrepreneurial style.
methodology and just the personalities that you're working with. You work with some of the best, β some of the most creative, some of the folks coming from other industries bring their expertise in there, β but it was so fast moving. wasn't a, β an off season β is an old dirty word that is no longer β true. Off season is when you're trying to do as much β as you can. And β so kind of just clicking into that, β one of things that most people don't realize is β innovation has to happen. Otherwise you just can't.
β You can't keep β up with other teams. You can't keep up with the other β leagues. You have to continuously be innovating, whether it's on the sports β for therapy, for β mental health, for the... β
like the plays and scouting and all the things that can go into that, which is such β a, β since Moneyball has really β leaned into technology. And then on the business side of how do you make that experience for a fan β the β best, β most personable experience that they've ever had and have it be unique every time they go. Even if they go to 40 games a year, β has to still feel like a unique experience every time, not just the same β banner ads, not just the same in-game β
Charles Sims (6:12.816)
β activities you really have to have that that that morph of as soon as you walk through the gates β you're now there you're in this space like like just like Disneyland does it in an amazing way β every stadium tries to do this a similar thing β
David J Bland (6:28.931)
I can't even imagine with a β group that small. I remember, you know, I used to go to games at Oracle β and it was sort of like, you know, Oracle had its own sort of blue collar kind of vibe and everyone was like really into it. And then you go to something like Chase where it's like this giant like.
compound β away with all this technology. β And in a way, it's like, well, how do we like we have much different things to work with there for an experience and you all have the new stadium too, which I do want to get to. But maybe we can start with something like β the pandemic or go ahead.
Charles Sims (7:0.558)
β Let's shout out Brian Fulmer. Brian Fulmer was one of the leaders β over there at the Warriors and everything that they did β between him and Daniel Breslawski, who headed up their innovation, did an amazing job at the Chase Center. was really β one of the things that we looked at as we looked into it. β
David J Bland (7:21.415)
interesting. I didn't know that. β that's interesting that, well, I guess it makes sense that you would look around the league and see what other people are doing and chat and try to share.
Charles Sims (7:29.730)
Well, on the business side, we're... β
We're not competing against each other on the business side, right? So the basketball side, yes, is church and state. You go to MIT Sloan. They're having all their back of room conversations. But on the business side, we definitely collaborated. Even after the pandemic, I led a call with we got up to 180 professional teams in North America. Your CIOs, CTS, all calling for some commiseration, but also like, hey, what are you doing for this? How are you going about that?
there's such a collaborative atmosphere that yeah, a lot of us knew one another from the Milwaukee Bucks who were the ones who built right before us to Chase who built two times before us to the new SoFi. You start to have β those folks who are always willing to pick up the phone and help out. β
David J Bland (8:20.401)
I love that. I love that. You know, like you said, there's a difference between the business side of things and then the team β competition side of things. And I think that's a good perspective to have. So when I think back to. Well, let's go back to the pandemic, even with the NBA and how you all innovated through that. can't even imagine what that was like behind the scenes, β especially now that you're saying like β we did not have a giant team and a lot of resources and we're trying to deal with this.
Like almost like this black swan event of everything is kind of shut down. explain, β like just explain a little bit behind the scenes of kind of like your thought process and how you were trying to test things and sort of what worked and what didn't. Like anything you could share with us would be fascinating.
Charles Sims (8:53.102)
β And I. β
Charles Sims (9:4.588)
Yeah, so β the, β if I remember the timeline correctly, it was a week or so before everything shut down, β my CIO community out here. β
the UCLA Innovate and this β SimConnect, which are two big CIO CTO groups of β your regular industries, academia and β government CIOs and CTOs who come together and talk about what they're doing. β About a week before, we were having that discussion of, maybe we should start trying to, β this might be something where we have to work from β home for a week or two. So maybe we start doing phased, β half of the organization works from home for one.
day and half works from home for the other day just so we can test out our systems and make sure everything works. β And when I brought that to the executive team they're like absolutely not. Don't don't even think about it it's not happening. Don't waste your money. Don't β don't do anything. And then β a couple days go by okay well maybe think about it and and β we could try to plan but we're not actually going to β do anything because it's definitely not going to happen. β Two days before the β
β the fateful game where everything shut down, β which was, I still remember, it was a Wednesday and it was Utah versus OKC, where the halfway through the game, the ball goes up, comes down, everybody has to leave. But even two days before that, it was OK, we're going to plan, we're going to figure this out, β but we don't have enough laptops for everybody. So we're just going to have to think of how do we go and. β
β make it happen. β That day the shutdown happens, my team goes on site, we wrap everybody's desktops. β
Charles Sims (10:52.814)
everything into their own packages. We cycled through the next 48 hours, all of the team, or all of the members in with a certain number of people at once, grabbed their devices, take them home, and then we had a hotline of my team that was continuously making sure everybody was set up and ready to go from home. Luckily, the previous year and a half, we had moved everything to the cloud. We were the first NBA team that was fully reliant on.
cloud services and so we didn't have to β VPN anybody in, we didn't have to have remote desktops. it just was, if you had internet, you could keep working. And so it was a testament to β being not prepared β in that week before, like we really, really probably could have, but being prepared for the year and a half or so prior so that way we could β in 48 hours just get everybody fully back up online on Teams running as β they go. β
David J Bland (11:46.063)
Wow, yeah, I think there's something about just acting in those moments, like not being β sort of stuck, know, feel like, we can't make any moves. β I feel like you sort of have to just act and find your β way through it.
Charles Sims (12:2.840)
So it's funny, it's how I got the moniker of hurricane CTO. β It was that Charles is always a hurricane when it comes to these situations. Because when crisis hits, I jump in, I start delegating, I get things going. It feels like the β aid team that comes and gets helicoptered in and telling people to do this and the other. But. β
once you're back up and the calm comes back, β I can now go move on to the next thing and my team goes, my God, this looks like a hurricane came through, β whether it's β cords are being ripped or whatever it be, but you're right, you have to act and then act in ways that you can quickly troubleshoot to what you needed. If you're troubleshooting an issue, quickly decide how to do it by what we call binary troubleshooting. But β if you're trying to make a decision, β make one that you still can have some backup and then just keep making it
decisions so you're always making momentum forward and never just β analysis paralysis. β
David J Bland (13:4.314)
I like that framing. I like that framing and decision making. So let's talk about, OK, so everything's shutting down. The ball comes up, comes down, everyone gizzles. β What's the fan experience like? How do you even begin to β look at, OK, we have these assumptions now of how we can recreate this like fan experience and make it enjoyable and everything. Like anything you can share about how you try different things to just β get by β when we were kind of in shock.
Charles Sims (13:34.030)
So the league had decided they were going to put up the video boards in the bubble in Florida. And they were going to figure out some way to get the different fans to show up on those video boards. They partnered with Microsoft. They decided, OK, what we're going to do is we're going to do a teams call and then be able to have you watch the game as your
reacting β but what we found very quickly was it's not as fun to just watch β it β on your computer versus just watching on TV so most people would start looking away they'd go and do something and what I thought was how do we bring that fan experience that is in the live stadium β to them and so then we quickly β
bought a couple crappy church streaming type β devices, got a camera, set up a mini studio in the offices, β and we brought Chuck along, who's our mascot. β We had our announcer, and now we created an in-game live experience. So when you're watching, we actually cut to commercial, to our commercials. We cut to our guys doing the kiss cam or showing up β which one of the fans was the best dress or whatever it may be, and all of a sudden it went from β 20 or
So we're watching out of the 50 to every single β every single fan was engaged. We were getting we were getting asked to β get more and more people on the wait list so they could watch β and other teams took the same approach. And then you slowly saw this virtual production start to happen. It was really, really cool β to I think your ethos of we didn't spend a bunch of money to do this. We spent maybe a couple hundred bucks β off of gear either on Craigslist or β Amazon and eBay β to do the equivalent of like a church
live stream, but then people don't care about it doesn't have to be absolutely perfect because it's still so much better than just watching through your computer.
David J Bland (15:34.203)
Yeah, I think we always talk about this idea of like a minimum viable product. And so often it's the customer or the consumer, you know, who's consuming it is determining the quality. And if that's good enough. And I know you'd be a little bit embarrassed about, we got this setup. But, you know, if they find it enjoyable experience, then you're you to judge that is not good enough. β
Charles Sims (15:59.214)
So pandemic is one, β in my opinion, pandemic was one of the β real big pushes to how...
quickly we digitized broadcast and digitized β the streaming where β prior to the pandemic, β frame, two frames of black or downtime on any broadcast channel was people are getting fired. It's bad. Where we, because they thought as soon as a, β as soon as a TV go or watches that β or sees that they're going to, they're going to change the channel to something else. And in reality β we've learned, no, we will deal with buffering. We'll deal with β these mini ads. We'll deal with the
β if it's good content, we're gonna watch it. And so that's allowed so much of the β heavy, heavy hardware β focus type of broadcast equipment to shift now into more of the software defined era and β really innovative stuff can happen. β what we have now β was, I think it really was pioneered from that time β in the pandemic. β
David J Bland (16:59.568)
I can just say personally, a lot of my training, I do a lot of training and coaching and consulting and it was, I did some virtual, but a lot of it was in person. And I remember going lockdown and I went all in on virtual and some of my peers like, oh, just what are you doing that for? Just wait and see. It's gonna be, know, it's not gonna last very long. And I went all in on it and I jumped, I was really, it was like this crisis where I was forced to act in a way where I had, okay, okay, how can I break up my stuff?
to modules, do it virtually. When we did our masterclass, we used to do them in person. β When we did them virtually, we had a musician that was streaming from his camper. He would do the music during the breaks live, you know? β And people loved that. I don't know if people even remembered what I taught, but they remembered the person playing the music during the break. And they're like, this is amazing. β And so we kept doing it. And it was like, how do we create those connections online? Because as you said,
You know, people have another monitor, they get distracted. β And it's like, how do we create this where it doesn't feel as if I'm just sitting in front of a monitor, β semi absorbing the information.
Charles Sims (18:10.040)
Well, β I think you synthesized a really good β example. When β I'm explaining to people, β you could take almost any product today, and with the development methodologies out there with the help of AI, there can be almost any product that's in market that I think you could build in six months or less. Because the hardest part isn't building the product as it is β what should be built. So when you are looking at Dropbox, β you already know what the public
as approved as what is required and what's not. β The product team that thinks, here's a great idea and we have to absolutely have that and it's never actually used, β all of that is the waste that comes from not having your product in market to get that feedback very, β very quickly. And so that's why, without that, you're β gonna waste so much time and money building stuff that doesn't matter. β
David J Bland (19:8.784)
Yeah, I think that's why I'm drawn to this area of expertise because I was at startups where I work nights and weekends and nobody used the stuff in the end. And we followed all these great delivery methodologies. We were agile and everything. And I was very frustrated by the experience and got drawn into this sort of by just sheer frustration at the beginning. So we're talking about the pandemic. We're talking about how you had to respond to that. And fast forward a bit to the new stadium.
Were you able to take what you've learned through the pandemic and apply it to that? Like what were some big assumptions you had going into like such an amazing building, you know, but there's so much work that goes behind that, you know, what were some of the ways you tested sort of that design or anything you could share?
Charles Sims (19:53.590)
Yeah, one of the stories that I like to talk about β that β I heard β happened a lot with the other stadiums that were being built was β usually the process. β
when you are building new stadium as a team, you go out and you get what's called an owner's rep. So that is β a team of consultants that β are there to, because β they've done this before. They've either been, they've been part of a number of builds, they have a couple of experts in there, but they're not doing work. What they're doing is helping advise you on who you should select for your master builder, who you should select β for your different β sponsors or your... β
the β almost β the expert portfolio slash project manager β of the build. β And β as we get into adding more and more people into this room of here's the future vision and β distilling all these different things from this new brand new halo board, which is 600 linear feet of β a oval inside and outside β screen center hung that no one has ever done before β to this massive screen β
in β the front area that you can come at any β time of day, β this β battleship gets so complicated so quickly and it already has momentum from the first day and momentum is so hard to overcome. β One of the things that we kept running into, β at least I realized, was β we were making decisions on things that we didn't necessarily have the full β understanding or scope of what we're making the decision on. And one of the good examples I β usually say,
I usually bring up is like the halo board was Steve's baby. That was his dream He was so excited for that not because it's just a flashy technology thing. He wanted to truly enhance the experience for every fan no matter where you sat you had a good seat and that that goes for the those at the on the floor all the way up to the 300 section and the nosebleeds because he wanted you to be able to be able to experience the game, but Even though every render we got made it look
Charles Sims (22:2.830)
amazing, like it was going to fit perfectly. β Some of these renders that we'd see from β the inner in the bowl or maybe of β the grand staircase or some of β the shops, β they're just photo shops. And so they weren't built on what you could say is reality in the programs that the construction team is using to design in β Revit or CAD or anything like that. β And so it didn't feel right to me. β And what I would I had
β R and D quickly with my β with my team was can we build a pipeline from their actual Revit β and the cut lists and the the architectural pieces into unreal which is a gaming engine so we can now visualize these things and β very quickly we start to see we have this false confidence trap of β Well, you're the expert. So obviously you guys know everything everything you show us β is good to go β But we all know anytime we've worked with consultants. They say β
Tell me your problems and I'll fix all of them. β But you didn't tell me that when we were first talking about this and β it's not my fault that β I didn't think of that very simple thing that you have no expertise. β It's your fault, Mr. Mrs. Customer. β And β one of the best parts was the halo board was three feet too tall. β So if β we were to go with the original halo board, the size and dimensions that β they were talking about, β
At the top of the bowl, you couldn't see the other side of the court. You couldn't see 10 feet into the court. And so we were β just out of one β weekend's worth of β noodling and β skunk working this thing together and getting it into place. β It became the standard for how we made decisions moving forward. We don't want pre-baked fake imagery anymore. We don't want the beautiful terrazzo tile that looks like it's really, really nice, but you can't tell where it ends and where it starts.
where the walls are. We wanted to be able to make those decisions in the composite and not just one off. β
David J Bland (24:11.023)
Wow, it's first time I've heard that story. So you were getting it into the Unreal Engine, which is basically game design. So you could maybe just rotate around and click through. So did you use that for other aspects of the build then? You mentioned you've kind of learned from that.
Charles Sims (24:26.670)
β It became one of my favorite β weekend activities. So we got it to the point where we β were the first team or a first stadium to do β real rendered β 3D walkthroughs. So if you wanted to see your seat, we could actually walk you from your garage in your car all the way to where your seat is and not just the one-canned β kind of crap.
a 3D visualization and then you want to look over there, okay, now it's going to shift to that one angle. It had the full engine going in it. β And β then it started opening up so many other possibilities where we had acquired the form during the pandemic. Our team had never managed a music venue before. β And β I spent the first, because I was part of the β &A team, β I β spent the first 90 days or so as we were pulling all of
β technology from β the MSG group β with the GM who taught me how β the operations happen, what load in load out is, all these different β frustrations that happen just because it's the logistics of the building β which brought me back to wait could I β talk to a tour manager before β they even get on site β understand the dimensions of their truck and simulate pulling where we can pull their truck what pieces
is we can pull in what corners are too tight versus just the gut feelings of, well, we'll figure out when they get here and then we'll just have two extra load-in dates. Because those are really expensive days, especially for touring. And β there's a ton of other examples that I could give. once you are. β
working within an engine that actually is β built within reality rather than just β theory and the systems are connected. β And β the original digital twins, before they became people digital twins, β it can help you make much more β confident decisions about complex systems that humans just can't really comprehend all those pieces together. β
David J Bland (26:35.629)
Yeah, I feel like in all these stories, there's this thread of your problem solving abilities, plus using tech in ways maybe not even the way it's intended, but blending that together in a way that works β and you can learn from that. And then if that's something scalable, you can figure that out later. But this this knack of like, what's the right tool for the job here? β this usually isn't used for this, but I think this can help us here. I think that's that's an interesting thread through all your stories so far. And
Charles Sims (27:2.830)
β It's something we like to call camera ready. So going back to the Entertainment world camera ready for art designers means β you don't have to build a piece of furniture That is perfect for if you're right there It just needs to look good enough that if you look through a camera, it's fine And so I take that approach to a lot of stuff is β is it camera ready? Great We'll be able to fix it like we'll be able to iterate on it But don't take six months to do something that we could have done in six days β and then now have
that six months to actually do real β innovative work on top of what's already been there. β
David J Bland (27:38.030)
I like that framing. So β we can talk about the NBA for hours, but moving forward β to more present day. So you've taken kind of everything you've learned from there. You did some other work, but β you're really kind of in this venture studio space now. β
Charles Sims (27:42.838)
Hahaha!
David J Bland (27:54.192)
And that's a space that fascinates me as well. Having tinkered with that a little bit at NEO, we weren't really a traditional venture studio, but we were assembling kind of startup teams around ideas and building MVPs. And sometimes we building with other startups, sometimes we building with corporations. And I always thought, wow, if I was to do that again today, then there's so many more tools, because this was early 2010s, you know, there's so many more tools with AI and everything related that
even that model would be completely different with β and accelerated on β based on what's available today. β So I'm just really curious like what you're up to now and kind of how you're testing this idea out of a venture studio and like anything you can share with us about your thought process behind that.
Charles Sims (28:40.310)
Yeah, so we officially launched Scaffold Studios, which is a multi-tiered venture studio. And the idea is we have β our first tier, is called Scaffold Ignite and Ignite's β entire, β it's built on the ethos of these stories I've been talking about. So some internal ideas or things, β just problems that we as a team or some of our β close innovators around to say like, here's a problem that just no one's solved yet and it doesn't make sense. β And we take our
β a manifesto that I wrote when I first left β operator world into VC world to really think of everything as product, whether it's a service, it's a process, or a thing, productize everything. So it's standardized and it's repeatable. β And that manifesto then allows us to fast β fail as many of these β ideated jam ideas that we have. But β if they're really there and they have something, then we have investment backing to go and β
β push it past that first MVP. But those 90 days are really ruminating on it and we bring the team together and we have personalities that are really good at that β first piece, that ideation, throwing spaghetti at the wall, getting it going. And then they don't want to keep going with it. They usually want to get back to the next new idea. And then we have the different personalities that actually take it β to β the next space. β Then the next tier up is called scaffold Excel and that's the accelerator that's your typical
working with teams that already have an idea and some semblance of a product or β maybe just the idea and β the... β
capital to β get there, but they're not exactly sure how or they don't want to have β have to be the β CTO and CEO. They don't have technical ability or they don't have a product team or whatever may be. So β the agreement there is they have to follow our manifesto and then we fully surround them in β the scaffold OS β so that they have the AI development practices. They have a lot of the things that move them through that pipeline as quickly as possible.
Charles Sims (30:51.440)
like a normal accelerator or incubator, but not requiring human personnel to have 80 mentors to be able to mentor you. The framework itself already gets you 80 % there, and that's where the scaffold name comes from, is we can take any idea and get it to 80 % very, very quickly, and then it's the last one that's really special. Then finally is the scaffold elite, and that's where we're assembling those SWAT teams.
to do your next raise and for some reason you're just not getting the traction with investors or you need to change the narrative. We come in whether it's for β corporate innovation or if it's for β actual startups themselves β with this team of, β yeah, SWAT team that I have β in my space to get the best innovative CIO or CTO or head of revenue in e-sports or β
whatever it may be and then surround that for that next raise and then let them go on their way. β
David J Bland (31:56.463)
That's incredible. I love how you have the tiered framing and how you're thinking about this. And I guess from an venture point of view, I'm curious. I've said some things in the past where, you know, was kind of an early adopter of Lean Startup and before that I was, you know, at three different startups for about 11 or 12 years. And I always felt like there was a disconnect between the VC community and this sort of like fail fast or test fast mentality. So.
And I do a lot of work in Silicon Valley and I know not every investor is the same. But I do feel sometimes like we want to invest in this kind of like dream. You know, it's almost like you have a team and a dream. And I don't want to quote like the Silicon Valley show, but it's like you're a pure play, you know, like your pre revenue and you could be a billion dollar unicorn. And we like that vision. And in reality, what I see happening, at least in my day to day advising and I still coach startups is they're out there.
Charles Sims (32:41.976)
Yeah.
Let's meet.
David J Bland (32:53.432)
grinding away, trying to get traction, trying to find out the actual market size of what something is. And that might be much smaller than that giant dream. Do you feel like this disconnect between us wanna invest in a giant dream and the reality of, well, we need like base hit level funding to get to something eventually. How do you feel that? Is that changing at all? Or what's your take on that? Or even if you agree with me on that.
Charles Sims (33:16.342)
Yeah, β definitely agree. And β it's changing. the reason why I originally had built investment, which was that SAS platform, was to get you past that first β initial, β is this idea worth it? Because β going through that platform, you quickly have an estimated valuation based on five of the different valuation methods. Is your management team strong enough? Is your β idea niche enough but still have β a large enough serviceable
β market β but β as we β that's really really valuable to get you but that's that's table stakes these days like that anybody can do that with β chatting through β through with the right prompts β what we're seeing now is shifting from β historically VCs would invest in β the β dream and potential of what it could be β but
only on the β personnel who β could back up that dream. And usually it was mostly on β the β CEO, not the CTO. β the β co-operational officer versus the co-technical, whatever. β Now what you're seeing is β investment decks have shifted from really salesy, flashy, let me talk about all the features to no, it's my job actually
to get you to be confident β that one, this β is the right problem and it makes sense β and that I can execute it. Not trying to sell you on absolutely every whiz bang that it's gonna do in the big dream, the Lamborghinis to the moon, β but it's much more now focused on the β technical co-founder. β If you don't have one, you need to find one, because that's the person who's actually going to execute your dream. And then two, β the shift to you have to have something.
so easy to get something up. You have to have something before we're going to invest. We don't invest in ideas anymore. We invest in something. that's where MicroSass has really β changed the game of, look, I can get something up in a weekend, throw it on Product Hunt, do a couple articles on Medium and β Substack. All of sudden, I get 1,000 subscribers. They might only last β until they realize it's just a chat GPT wrapper, but still, β are exactly
Charles Sims (35:43.041)
examples of. β
where investors see it's so easy to get into it, why can't you at least show something more than slideware? β This is different from the PE world. β now the PE world is very much in the we wanna gobble up, we wanna consolidate, it's still in more of the historical way of taking multiple things and trying to buy exclusivity in a market or trying to β bring synergies together. β
David J Bland (36:14.835)
Yeah, I like that framing the with the PE world β I don't I spent some time there I've done some training and some coaching with some folks and I think my take has been β They use my risk framework for that, you know, like look at the riskiest assumptions for these investments and you know What would have to be true where you don't have evidence and then? Could you can you have a plan test that and in a way that's similar to how I work with VCs or their early stage
portfolios in the valley, which is more like, okay, what are the risky assumptions? And do you agree with how the founders sort of thinking through this? Like, what's their thought process? Because β what I've noticed sometimes is like, you can find out pretty clearly, do people β sort of explain away all the evidence that they don't agree with? β Yeah. And so if you think there's no risk here, I know all the answers. There's like, that's actually a risk, you know. β
Charles Sims (36:59.502)
The hand waving, β Yeah. β
David J Bland (37:8.174)
So I try to be really flexible in my approach. But it's promising to hear what you're saying, because I do agree with you in the sense of it's easier than ever to get something out there and start getting some traction with it. And I'm hearing that word much more traction. That was sort of a niche thing. And I didn't hear a lot of that framing. And now I'm hearing it more and more because of what you said. You could spin something up in lovable, jump on product time, jump on Reddit, jump on, know, Hacker News or something and drive people to it pretty quickly and start to see, you know,
Charles Sims (37:20.110)
Mm-hmm.
David J Bland (37:38.125)
are people interacting with it. But I do think behind that β is the problem you're solving, as you mentioned. I am a little nervous that people are just spinning up stuff without really β either understanding or delving into the problem space much. And I think we're gonna see a lot of churn in that regard with a bunch of stuff people have coded on a weekend or during the week and it just.
Charles Sims (37:57.229)
Yeah, absolutely.
And β I would almost argue that's not a bad thing. the β there's no guarantee in this world anymore. And if you spin up something that gets passed up β and it goes away, that means one, either you didn't have a solid enough idea and you didn't continue to β innovate on it and you just kind of rested on your laurels. Or two, β the β framework around what the idea was built on has radically changed. And now in the last few years, and I definitely think in the future, you're to see these
frameworks β change β dramatically. even as you're mentioning, like how you value β startups and how you value the β going through diligence, one of one of the platforms that we β we have been rolling out alongside. β
one of our port codes is around that let's get the humans out of the diligence as much as possible. How do we hook into the actual metrics that we can synthetically understand what's real and what's not? We have platform that can go through the entire code base now and actually understand the dependencies that are related to one another and the debt that is there. We can go through the the quick.
hook to the QuickBooks register and see how bad is payroll in comparison to R &D, in comparison to do they take them out to lunch every single β weekend at Master's. β Those pieces, β I β foresee β if my β market intelligence is right, that product that we have would be β the biggest shift in, it can't be your gut feeling, can't be the β asking the questions. It's almost like β you wanna get β all of the evidence and the information
Charles Sims (39:44.374)
for your questions, then you go and ask the human, β here's some questions that we have, right? β
David J Bland (39:49.976)
Yeah, there's a difference of looking at something versus looking for something β in a way. β So this is exciting. So looking forward, what are some β maybe like, what's one big assumption that you want to test with what you have now that sort of keeps you up at night?
Charles Sims (40:6.114)
I think one big assumption β is β how can I reduce communication barriers between multi-domain folks? So one of the philosophies I β truly believe is AI has transformed the ability to translate not just between languages, but between different types of β people. So technical to non-technical, product to β CEOs, CFOs to legal, et cetera, cetera. Like being able to really
β Help empathize and understand and actively listen to the other person on the other side of the table β rather than just kind of talking over one another and β and β really not β not β creating value for whatever situation it may be and so β as β We've been building a lot of things within the scaffold studio s β one of them is every conversation that we're having How do we make sure that we are? β rapidly following up with the action items from it this β
scope changes, get assumptions out there, like anything, and do it in a transparent way β so that it's not β a weird, β well I thought you said you promised you were gonna do this or you're gonna, β no, β we need line those things up so that way we can have honest conversations that are at the level and not just talk over or talk around each other. β
David J Bland (41:27.681)
Yeah, having a common language is so important. So I love that β you're aware of that and that's something that you're trying to β solve. I think for β the people that are listening to this and they're like, wow, I really love hearing what Scaffold's doing and I want to be a part of this venture studio. Maybe one of the different tiers you have. β What's the best way for people to reach out to you?
Charles Sims (41:52.591)
Well, if they want to reach out to me directly, my handles are all Hurricane CTO or Charles Sims.com. You can also come to scaffold studio.com to apply or reach out if you're interested in the studios investing in any of the startups, as well as our impact impact 10, which are the 10 most what we've identified as 10 of the most impactful startups or ideas that you could.
to to achieve across the world utilizing AI. And that's Scaffold Studio, S-K-A-F-L-D-S-D-S-T-U-D-I-O dot com. So. β
David J Bland (42:32.203)
And we'll include that link β in our detail page as well. We tried it about everything today. I think we could have gone a much longer. So we're going to keep this one. We may have to have you on again. But we tried tried everything about sort of the way you approach problem solving, you know, with the Clippers, with the pandemic, with the new with the new build of the studio, how you've kind of transitioned the venture and how that's led you to.
Charles Sims (42:37.814)
Hahaha! β
David J Bland (42:55.211)
this β venture studio with the three tiers and how you're testing things there. β I just find it fascinating you describing your thought process and how you navigate all this stuff. β And so I'm sure our listeners will take a lot away from this episode.
Charles Sims (43:7.950)
I appreciate it. My wife doesn't necessarily understand everything, my thought processes and all that, so that's very kind of you. At least I got one person.
David J Bland (43:17.901)
This is true, this is true. β Thanks so much for coming on today Charles, I really loved our conversation.
Charles Sims (43:22.861)
Thanks David.