Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Dan Hope and Andy Anders of Eleven Warriors bring you inside the Ohio State beat every Wednesday with a podcast covering everything you need to know about the Buckeyes.
Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.
[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays. I'm Dan Hope, joined as always by Andy Anders, and also pleased to be joined by a special guest for the start of this week's episode. If you have been following the TTUN scandal threads on our forum at 11Warriors, which I believe have now crossed the 57,000 comment threshold since they've started, you know the name Premiere Drum by now.
Premiere Drum has been one of our most prolific commenters in that thread, in terms of breaking news that has proven to be true in this Michigan sign-stealing scandal. And certainly now that Michigan has received its notice of allegations, there's been some renewed attention on this over the past couple weeks with the Netflix documentary Untold Sign Stealer. We wanted to have Premiere Drum on to kind of talk about, you know, first of all, you know how you kind of became into this position, and then secondly, you know, what all you are hearing about what could be coming for Michigan.
So thanks so much for joining the show. We really appreciate it.
[Premierdrum]
Yeah, thanks for having me. This is fun. This all started as an accident.
Last October, it was actually the first time I joined 11Warriors. I was looking for information because I wanted to know, wanted to know what was going on. How did this happen?
And as the season went on, I couldn't square in my mind these two parallel realities where we had, on one hand, evidence that was so bad against the University of Michigan that the Big Ten let a future opponent choose if they wanted to play them or not, and evidence that was so strong and irrefutable that, you know, it made Michigan back down from their threats of going to court to get Harbaugh on the sidelines the last few weeks of the season. And then after those games played out, everything for them just seemed to go back to normal.
And we went through the season. I watched the championship game, probably drank a little too much that night, and got really frustrated that those two things were supposed to be true in my mind. Like, that doesn't make sense.
So I come from a background where I spent a little over 12 years working in TV news here in Columbus. I work in the nonprofit end of things now, but I really loved my time in TV. And I was really fortunate at that point to have a pretty good handle on how to go about, you know, trying to find the truth.
So I started first with the public records route. I do feel sorry a little bit for the Michigan public records folks because they would see my email, I think, pop up early this spring and cringe a little bit. Like, oh God, what's he asking for now?
And that wasn't getting what I wanted. And so I should have probably quit then. Like, I didn't need an extra thing to do.
But way back when, and this is going to date me a little bit before I got my first job in TV, which was at Channel 6 here in Columbus, I was a student at Capital University and I interned in the Channel 6 newsroom. And as part of that internship, I got to spend a huge amount of time with Carol Looper, Columbus legend reporter of 50 years or so, Carol Looper. And the running joke in the newsroom that her Rolodex weighed about 100 pounds.
I mean, it was the size of like a coffee maker and everyone teased her about it. But when you needed to know anything about anything, Carol had a contact and not only did she have the contact, but when she called, the other person on the end of the phone would know her by name, right? First name basis.
So I just started reaching out to contacts. Working 12 years in this business, you cross a lot of people and maybe there's someone who you only overlapped with in the Channel 10 newsroom for a year. But in that year, you spent weekends together.
You worked overnights together. You spent your holidays together. Like, you really get to know these people.
And so I just started making calls and sending texts and trying to figure out who was willing to play ball and help me dig. And this summer, that really took off and we were fortunate to get hooked up on the 11 Warriors boards with the legendary Brohio, right? Like, he's an incredible collaborator and a celebrity and fashion icon.
I think we can say now too. And 22 Buck as well. And we started putting this together.
And so, you know, we started hearing things. I think we were some of the first to report what the framework of minimum acceptable penalties from the enforcement team at the NCAA, how that kind of was put together. We talked about when the draft notice of allegations was shared, you know, that story broke around the world on 11 Warriors, which is wild.
You know, we had them getting the notice of allegations. We've had some really compelling information about how these all these parallel investigations started and who was talking to who and who wasn't and that led us here. And what we found out over the course of all this is that you know, the systems that should have shut this down last year, as soon as it was found out there was fairly blatant cheating that was affecting the on-field product that should have stopped, but the systems in place only work if they're adults in the room, right?
And you got to think any other Division 1 school had this come out. The school would have said, hey, we're an academic institution with honor and integrity. We're going to own this.
That didn't happen. And so other teams, other individuals lost out on opportunities when they cheated their way to a championship. And the great thing about ignoring reality is that you can do a good job at ignoring reality for a pretty long time, but eventually does catch up with you.
And as this new exciting season has started, that's the point where we are and you know, we're on a ticking clock for them to respond to the notice of allegations that they've had for a couple weeks now. I can say with confidence that I sincerely believe they didn't know what the supporting evidence was, even when they got the draft notice of allegations back on July 25th, that they then leaked themselves to Pete Thamel and asked him to put out some nice things about some light punishments that might be coming their way. They didn't get access to any of the investigative files through the NCAA's process.
Once you're served with the notice of allegations, we learned that you can then get access to review in a secure way, all the evidence that's been compiled against you. Michigan wasn't aware until a couple weeks ago of how deep the NCAA's investigation was. And there's, you know, some interesting stories as to how those all came to be, but their about face over a two or three day period was entertaining to watch on this end of things.
I'm sure it's gutting for a fan to go from, you know, we're going to fight this, this is an overreach, you know, we're going to accept maybe some, you know, some light fines or a couple weeks suspension, you know, for Coach Moore. And then two days later, you know, their athletic director is telling the friendliest interviewer they could have, well, you know, if we've done some wrongs, we're going to have to admit to it. And that process continues.
And I'm certain there were some talks beginning probably as quickly as today after what happened Saturday, deciding how can we, how can we put this behind us and start to move forward?
[Andy Anders]
You mentioned stronger pieces of evidence than Michigan may have been aware of that's being presented to them. And just, are you aware of what some of those evidences are? And I guess what sort of work have you in Ohio and the like done on those things?
[Premierdrum]
So what was really confusing is, you know, trying to trace this all back when you're trying to understand anything, the best thing you can just find out where it started, right? And this was really messy how it started. We knew there was this weird FBI investigation that started with University of Michigan and Ann Arbor Police and former coach Weiss and that seemingly was a totally separate thing, right?
Some unauthorized computer access crimes were, you know, is what they are saying officially, but it sounds like hacking into iCloud accounts to get some co-eds private pictures, right? Like that's creepy, but that's fairly self-contained and seems as it is. But through some really, really solid sourcing, specifically by 22Buck, I have to give him all the credit here because he had some sourcing that really laid the groundwork for us to get a working theory together where we knew enough, where I could then go back to my sourcing and say, this is what we think.
Can you like answer these questions to help guide this, right? Because when you're working with source journalism, the people who want to just spill everything to you almost unprompted are usually not giving you the best info, right? That's obviously very motivated.
But with a lot of these sources, if you can demonstrate a pretty decent base knowledge of what you think happened, they will, if they've got the right motivation to, they'll point you in the right direction. And so what we found or what we've reported and what we believe is that that investigation that wasn't a creepy computer crime. So there was some behavior that was witnessed inside the football facility.
The coach was put on an administrative leave and they took back his university-owned devices. And when they went to review those, they were, they had additional encryption that was not university-sanctioned put on them. And so an external cybersecurity firm came in to crack those devices.
And once they got in, they did find creepy pictures that you know, a coach shouldn't be looking at of college students. But then also the first evidence that we know of, of this impermissible advanced scouting scheme, which included, you know, videos recorded of sidelines, the master spreadsheet, we believe was first viewed here, things like the instructions on, you know, how to shoot and who's assigned, things like that. So most of the scheme became aware to that group of people at that point.
But that was not the genesis of the NCAA's investigation. And that's what took a long time to figure out, how did this all come to be? So we don't know the exact dates that the investigation that started with his devices, and who within the University of Michigan became aware of that, right?
But that was out there. The genesis of the investigation that was ultimately turned over to the NCAA, we still don't know who started it. But this is the sourcing that was used in the Will Hobson, Washington Post report last October that kicked this all off.
So as those things all happened, parallel, but not informing each other. Michigan was aware of some of the claims that were being made, but they did not know the depth of evidence. So this outside investigation firm, I did actually have help from someone on the inside at Michigan, that was how they got access to see the digital fingerprints in and out of these files.
And this investigation was actually able to completely close the loop where they had evidence through the spreadsheet of a game being assigned, instructions, tickets purchased, all of that. That person going to that game, shooting the video, that video being prepared and uploaded, and then ultimately viewed by other members of the Michigan coaching staff. And that's an important part because I don't think that Michigan understood that they had that full loop of information until they received the notice of allegations.
And I think that's probably has the most to do with their change in tone since they received that notice.
[Dan Hope]
I know there's going to be a lot of Michigan fans that are going to watch this and they're going to immediately try to discredit you. I mean, much like they've tried to do with Pro Ohio as since the Netflix documentary of, oh, this this guy is just a message board poster on 11 Warriors. What does he know about all this?
What can you say, would you say about why people should believe what you guys are putting out there?
[Premierdrum]
Well, I think the most important thing here is that the three of us are fully aware of how ridiculous this looks. We are three goofballs on message boards. I'm not getting paid to do this, right?
Like I'm sitting here, you know, having just worked a regular normal job like any other guy and, you know, we're in this to find out the truth because we didn't feel like that was getting out there. The whole world just kind of moved on and accepted that, oh, they might have cheated, but then, you know, they won and that the NCAA quote of them winning the championship fair and square, I think will haunt all of us Ohio State fans until the end of time because it's been so misappropriated and presented out of context. I'm not that concerned with who believes me or not, you know, we're in the phase of things where in, you know, before the end of the year, probably, if not, you know, fairly quick here, we will know and if we are completely wrong, people know where to find me.
They know my name. I'm out there, right? I'm not hiding behind anything.
You can come and wave the receipts in my face and say, hey, you're wrong. The flip side of that is, you know, I'm a somewhat respected member of a community here and I'm putting my name and my own credibility behind this information because I believe in it and I think it's important and, I mean, we've been right on a lot of things and haven't missed on one yet and in putting all this together, we were all kind of chuckling like this, like if you wrote this as a script, someone would say, dude, you got to make this more believable.
This is wild, right? It seems like crazy fan fiction and I know there are certain corners of the college football Internet who are saying, hey, that is great fan fiction and I don't know what to tell you, man. That's every sign that we can pull, every bit of documentation, every bit of source info has helped us put this together and it's not complete whenever this all becomes public, which it will, one way or the other, since they elected to receive the formal NOA, they very easily could have buried it had they just settled.
I'm excited to close a few loops on things that I don't fully understand yet, but everything that's happened since they reviewed the draft NOA and since they've gotten the formal NOA and since they've been trying to control the narrative, at least with their own fans, with some of their own insiders who aren't exactly pushing the most truthful information. I think it points a lot closer to us being right than us being wrong.
[Dan Hope]
You mentioned the change in tone at Michigan over the last couple of weeks as it certainly seems like they are now bracing for significant penalties, whereas, you know, the narrative had kind of been, oh, they might get off of just, you know, probation, fine, whatever. Based on what you're hearing right now, what do you think those ultimate penalties are going to look like for Michigan?
[Premierdrum]
So at this point, since both parties, both the University of Michigan and the NCAA have elected to go through the formal committee process, anybody who tells you they know exactly what's going to happen is full of it because nobody does, right? What our information, and I should clarify that my information, and I have different opinions on this, this is just information that I've gathered from my sources and my own reporting, what we've been developing over the last few months, is the NCAA wants significant penalties. Their enforcement staff and their board that reviews these sorts of issues, there's a committee board that a draft NOA has to go through and then a formal NOA has to go through.
This is not just the investigators writing saying, hey, you did all these bad things and you're in trouble, right? This is going through and has been through a multi-layer process already. You know, the minimum framework that we've been reporting on all summer was going into negotiations with some form of vacated wins for the 21 through 23 season.
We believe that the initial ask in a settlement was to vacate all three seasons. There were then two variations we're aware of, of partial vacations, one where it was for games that we know were advanced scouted, but only against teams who are advanced scouted, and another variation that covered games where Connor Stallions was on the sidelines. So those that obviously cover a different group of games over those three seasons, but there's some form of vacated wins in play and just with the conversations I've had with people who were plugged in enough to make our stuff right so far, I can't see this being resolved without vacated wins.
And the arguments against them have been, you know, specifically, you know, what was there in an eligible player? Because that's the only place where you see vacated wins spelled out in the NCAA's bylaws. But those arguments completely ignore the wide amount of flexibility that the Committee on Infractions has.
They can essentially impose whatever they want. They just want it to hold up under their own internal appeal process. So I'd be shocked if we didn't see vacated wins.
I don't believe the NCAA would settle for anything less than their own internal loss of recognition of the 2021 through 23 Big Ten titles and the 2023 College Football Championship. They don't have the power to vacate those titles. They're not the sanctioning body, but they can not recognize them.
And then I have it on fairly good authority that the Big Ten, if that was decided, would follow suit. The CFP, that's a question mark. We've never had to deal with this, right?
Since this has come out, I can't imagine that they would want their own committee and their brand attached to, well, we know they cheated, but we don't want to take the trophy. So that's in play. We've been pretty strong in our reporting all summer that Coach Moore has been on the chopping block.
I know that folks in Ann Arbor were not thrilled when USA Today put out just that fairly innocuous coaching. We did our annual coaching records request. And by the way, your coach of the defending national champion doesn't have a contract, right?
I can't see how he survives this. And with what they were willing to do to Harbaugh for the recruiting violations, right, hitting them as hard as they did. I think that with him, definitely, and potentially with Stallions as well, we could see the first ever lifetime ban from college football from the NCAA.
I think all those things, plus the requisite scholarship reductions, fines, things like that, are all in play. And I think that if anything less severe than that was on the table, they would have already settled and gotten this behind them, right? Like if it were really what, you know, the Fort or whatever they're saying over on the Wolverine message boards, if they're talking about a couple weeks suspension for Coach Moore and some fines, they would have signed that on July 25th, the second they got that draft.
[Andy Anders]
Lifetime ban is pretty strong. And you know, I guess, what are you hearing from your sources that the NCAA is using to say this is worthy, this could be worthy of that?
[Premierdrum]
The biggest deal we have is what they have spelled out several times throughout their bylaws, and that's a blatant disregard for the rules. This was a program that, you know, all of this happened this past season while they were already aware of an ongoing investigation over a totally different set of rules. You know, I think this is the, I believe it was the first time in NCAA history where one team had, you know, a head coach who was suspended for multiple games in the same season for different reasons.
They've got repeat offender status now in play because the recruiting violations, uh, in a way has been settled and dealt with. So it does seem strong. This is the first time, at least in modern collegiate sports that we're dealing with, you know, a direct cheating scandal.
This isn't some loophole. This isn't some, oh, well, they outlawed it because some schools could afford to do it and some schools couldn't. We've heard all these crazy excuses.
You know, this is, it's bad. And I think it's going to, it's going to end, um, it's going to have to end poorly because if, if you can say, well, you can go and cheat and win your championship, and then we're going to hit you with a fine and a coach, any school who has access to a big pot of money, Ohio state, Notre Dame, those guys, that's worth it. Let's go pay the money, cheat.
We'll get our championship. They'll slap us in the wrist. We'll move on.
We'll hang the banner, make a big day of it. The other factor here that I feel like has been pretty well ignored until, um, until this recent reporting is that a lot of these allegations became known inside at least some corners of university administration in the immediate wake of the Weiss saga. I don't know if it was January, February, March, whenever they got their information back, um, with what they did from the information off of his devices, but they had at the very least some, uh, idea of what was going on.
The spreadsheet was there, right? These sideline videos were there. None of this was self-reported.
This information was taken by the other investigative firm to the NCAA in October. And that was right when the Will Hobson piece hit. So you have all of these infractions being fairly flagrant, being committed by an athletic department that is already under multiple NCAA investigations and are repeat offenders.
And they knew about it and didn't self-report. I don't see how anybody can square that with slap on the wrist.
[Dan Hope]
Obviously, you know, a narrative that, you know, comes a lot from Michigan supporters is that, oh, well, everybody steals signs. Like, you know, obviously, you know, it's established in the NCAA rules that you cannot go and scout teams in person, that you cannot film their sideline to go and use that to your advantage. Why do you think it is to the NCAA, like this is like so much worse than anything else we've seen in this area?
[Premierdrum]
Because it's a lot easier to play the game when you know what the other team is trying to do, right? Like it sounds so elementary, but that's what it is. Stealing signs when you're in a game is legal.
We're Ohio State fans. We had the deal with Brent Venables and Clemson. We know how good they were at doing that, as far as we know, the right way.
Like there are guys whose brains are just wired that way and can pick up a signal and attach to something and then maybe, you know, partway through the third quarter, you've got the code cracked. You know, you're essentially letting, you know, Michigan walk onto the field for the last three seasons with the other team's playbook. You know, they know what they're and it's not like we're talking.
They scouted, you know, one game, shot some sidelines and tried to connect some dots. They scouted Ohio State nine times, right? Like even if there were, and I'm sure there are, variances in the way the signal language is used, you know, if you have nine examples of how many different ways they can switch stuff around, it's not going to matter.
And then if the answer is, well, you knew they steal your sign. So, you know, you should have, you should have changed them. That's like saying, hey, you know, you've got to learn Spanish by next week, new language, you got to pick it up and go play the game.
It's these excuses just don't hold up to any, any sort of critical thought, you know, sign stealing is legal, sign stealing and baseball is legal. What the Astros did was illegal. Right?
Like it's not hard to draw that line between, you know, what's part of gamesmanship and being involved in a game and what's just, you know, blatant indifference towards NCAA bylaws, which is a quote. I think we've told 11 Warriors folks to have bookmarked since June.
[Dan Hope]
You, you mentioned that, you know, we could, we could see action on this, you know, perhaps sooner, even though Michigan has that 90 days to respond. I think, you know, that's one thing a lot of people have wondered since Saturday, seeing how poorly Michigan played against Texas is, you know, does Michigan now make a concerted effort to try to get out in front of us to, you know, self-impose a postseason ban on itself now in hopes that that will reduce the sanctions that will, that it will eventually received. How likely based on what you've heard, do you think it is that Michigan could try to do something like that?
[Premierdrum]
From what I've heard, there is a renewed motivation. Where the gap remains and where I don't see either side budging is I don't foresee the university agreeing to something that, that takes away the wins. It knocks them down below the thousand win mark.
It puts them no longer. I believe in the lead or at least close to losing the lead for all time wins. They don't want to do anything that's going to give up those banners.
They don't want to have to pack away the trophies. I don't think the NCAA feels like they have to settle on that. So I think the most likely scenario is that this plays out.
This goes till, you know, they have the Monday before the game to file their formal response and then the committee on infractions has 30 days to review. Then they will schedule a hearing. It's pretty well spelled out.
There is a renewed interest in settling where I think it's going to catch them. And they saw this with, you know, what they proposed to do to coach Harbaugh after the recruiting violations as they offered up and said, Hey, we're going to do this. We'll suspend them.
And the NCAA still said, no, that's, that's not good enough. So at this point with the team looking as it does, you know, if they wait until after this loss or they wait until after, you know, they lose maybe in two weeks to USC, it doesn't carry as much weight because you're not really giving anything up, you know, you know, they've already, they've already been exposed. So I don't know.
I think the most likely scenario is this is this plays out, but I do think at the end of it, the penalties are not going to be something that they want to see up there. And that is this all could have been very easily avoided. Had they stuck their hand out in November or January, there were so many opportunities for them to just say, Hey, someone, one grown up in the room to stand up and say, Hey, we screwed up, but you've got an athletic director who doesn't have control over his program.
And it goes far beyond football as issues, you know, several other sports up there. You've got a president who appears to just want to be a cheerleader for the athletics department, not a measure of accountability. And then board of Regents who are all elected.
So who wants to, you know, lose their elected position by being the one, you know, who, who goes against the mighty football team. It was famously bad, you know, when Gordon Gee made the quip about, he hopes Jim Trestle doesn't fire him. Right.
We all remember that. This is like a million times worse than that. And so the other thing is we talk about the University of Michigan as some singular body.
Right. There are several different people, several different entities pulling, pulling power in different ways. And I think, you know, several different paths to what they see as an ideal solution.
They aren't sure internally what they want to do. And we've seen it, you know, lately by the time they are insiders push their leaked information out to their subscribers, you know, the, you know, wards, uh, the athletic director, uh, wards, uh, messaging has already changed. You know, they can't keep up with themselves.
And, um, someone actually earlier today on the boards asked, you know, what's, what's the long game here? Like, what are they trying to accomplish? And the short answer is there is no long game.
There's no ultimate vision. There's not an October surprise that they think they can pull out and just get away with it. They've been trying to on one line, keep their fans engaged and pretty mad about the big bad NCAA overreaching and coming for all these ticky tack little things while also trying to tell the NCAA that we want to cooperate now, you know, they've been kind of on that message.
We want to cooperate, but then you've got their insiders coming back and say, you know, they're not going to accept anything serious. So it's, it's an athletic department. And, and in many ways, it seems like a university that's kind of in disarray and it's all because nobody wanted to just stand up and, and own a mistake and, and take accountability for what was right.
[Andy Anders]
Of course, you referred to Brohio as a fashion icon earlier. I assume you've seen the untold, uh, sign stealing documentary that was released. Were you approached for that documentary and what were your thoughts on it?
[Premierdrum]
I was not approached. Um, and that end of, of the investigation, Brohio has been all over that from day one. Um, he was absolutely the right one to take that.
And I mean, as a piece of entertainment, it's got the freak show effect. I mean, you can sit and look at Connor Stallions, be like this, this guy, like it's, it's wild. Right.
I don't really consider it to be, you know, a piece of journalism or a true investigative piece, but you know, for a Netflix little special, it's fine. And I'm glad Brohio was there to bring some amounts of truth to the situation, um, and balance maybe a tiny bit of, of, you know, Dave from Barstool sports or whatever. Um, but yeah, it was entertaining.
Uh, it will not be remembered as the defining documentary of the Michigan cheating scandal. I think I'm pretty comfortable in saying that.
[Andy Anders]
What are your general thoughts on Connor Stallions? Just as a, just as a person, I guess, you know, I don't like to judge people who I don't know, man.
[Premierdrum]
Everyone's got stuff going on that I don't know about. I think the worst thing that, that, that that's probably happened is along the way other adults have had the chance to come in and maybe help put them on a more balanced path, maybe get them straightened out a little bit because it's the fact that he, he was at the game this past Saturday up, up on the stage and, and taking pictures with fans. And on one hand, the university can't, they don't want to trespass them from campus.
They know it's going to piss off all their fans, but man, you've got to think they want him to go away, right? Every time they think they get, they get under one bridge, you know, he pops out from under the next one, but I don't want to speak to him as a person. He is very ambitious.
Very motivated. I think we can say that, but probably needs a little refresh on maybe the right way to go about doing some of these things.
[Dan Hope]
You mentioned that, you know, you're looking forward to seeing some of these loops closed. What will it be like for you and Mrs. Over? Like, do you just go back to normal life again?
[Premierdrum]
I'm looking forward to balance in the universe being restored and that, you know, we have a generationally great Ohio State team who so far has been an absolute joy to watch play and we don't see our rivals, you know, benefiting from ill-gotten gains, right? Did you watch the game versus Texas? They looked a lot like the 2019 Michigan team, the 2020 Michigan team.
They were out of sorts, right? And, you know, you can cheat your way through things for a while, but eventually it catches up to you. So what I'm really looking forward to is eventually the 30 for 30 on this whole episode is going to be amazing.
I'm going to pour some of the best bourbon. I'm going to sit down on the couch and watch that thing 10 or 15 times and just enjoy it every single time.
[Andy Anders]
You mentioned some of the timeline stuff. When do you think that Michigan will finally be hit with the penalties, processes complete, etc.?
[Premierdrum]
From what I can tell from sources who are a little bit closer to the investigation, the NCAA is keeping things moving on their end of things. So they are not starting from scratch to review a reply and then schedule a hearing. They want this resolved.
I think they want to send a message to the rest of college football like, hey, you can poke us when it comes to paying athletes. We have some diminished capabilities there, but when it comes to, you know, the integrity of the sport on the field, we are still the boss. We are still in charge and they want to send that message.
But I also think it's important to remember NCAA doesn't leak, right? So any little leaks, any little bits that you hear between now and this thing wrapping up, someone's saying that or putting that out there for a reason. So, you know, no matter what you hear, something I say, you know, I'm not dumb enough to think that I've not been used in some part of this.
Someone wants this information to get out, right? Now we've been really careful to verify it. I've not reported anything that was single sourced.
Certainly have heard a lot more than we've shared or will share. But people need to use critical thinking and ride this thing out. Don't rush this.
You know, we're in the find out phase. I think I said this morning somewhere and this is people in our position. It's a fun place to be.
We're watching a great team. We're going to see an incredible football game, an incredible exercising of demons the Saturday after Thanksgiving and let's get through that and then watch the world come falling down around them.
[Dan Hope]
Well, we really appreciate you taking the time to join us on the show this week. Is there anything else that we haven't asked you about that you want people to know?
[Premierdrum]
Get into the stadium early and enjoy the best damn band in the land. It's really cool as someone who does work to, you know, work with marching band students at the high school level to have kids who make it into that group and get to go see them play in front of a hundred two thousand eight hundred and fifty five people was the number on Saturday. That's cool.
So appreciate appreciate the heck out of those kids because what we have here is really special in the football field, but it's it's really special everywhere else. This is a really a really great place to be. It's an awesome place to call home and you know, I don't think any of us could ask for a better team to to cheer for.
[Dan Hope]
A very informative interview there with premier drum who you know, like he said that the things that he has reported in our forum the things that have now actually happened that have come true. Like he has a track record of reporting things along with for Ohio and 22 buck and those guys who have been collaborating to report on this scandal. They have clearly been plugged in.
They have clearly not just been throwing stuff at the wall and hope it sticks. And so you know, that's why we wanted to have him on this show. Now.
We should say like, you know, we have not independently verified the things that he said so we can't sit here and say yeah, that's true. That's true. But you know, he has proven himself with the things he is posted in our message board to be a verifiable source.
And if the things that you know, he just told us prove to be true. It certainly is going to be quite an avalanche coming for the team up north.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, a couple things that just hit your ears and are like, whoa, you know, lifetime bands and talking about Jerome Moore being on the top chopping block for something we thought might be in play, especially when you hear that, you know, Michigan hasn't locked him up with like an actual contract yet. But like the just the extent of the seriousness of the of the penalties that could be levied here, vacated wins for multiple seasons. All that stuff is good to hear from someone who clearly does have credentials and sources on this because, you know, you talk to him working in TV for such a long time having that sort of investigative background to then work on a story like this.
I think, you know, that attractors, of course, Michigan fans have been quick to point out about, oh, it's just message board posting and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But these are guys that have been well-connected and proven time and time again to know what's happening and know what's coming almost before it's released publicly. So the credentials, I think, of Premier Drum are what stood out to me.
I think he's someone that's been proven trustworthy throughout this whole thing. And to hear him then say all these penalties that are harsh that could be coming at Michigan, I think there's a good chance that, yeah, we see this isn't just going to be a slap on the wrist from the NCAA. This is going to be serious penalties, penalties up there with, you know, some of the harsher NCAA punishments of years past.
And from the evidence he laid out that he's heard from sources and the things that he talked about in this entire investigation, it sounds justified when you talk about the team knowing and perpetrating this and there being really good evidence for it that maybe Michigan wasn't even aware of before the recent developments with the notice of allegations and all of those things.
[Dan Hope]
And to his point, you know, there's been, you know, some signs, you know, just publicly that, you know, Michigan is maybe starting to brace for serious penalties, despite the fact that, you know, for so long Michigan's stance on this has been, you know, we're going to fight this, you know, you know, we're not going to, you know, take anything lying down. Michigan, since that NOA has been given to them, has not come out and, you know, tried to really deny anything or try to, you know, say that the stuff that's out there isn't true or that, you know, they're not worried. Now, granted, it's still an active situation here at PNCA.
So there's only so much they can say, but, you know, the fact that they don't seem to be fighting back, at least in terms of their public statement, the way they were earlier on in this scandal, and then the fact Fitzgerald Moore does not have a signed contract yet, which, you know, to be fair, it's not unprecedented for a coach to go into his first season without a fully signed contract. There's other examples of it, even right now, of coaches who were hired this offseason that don't have fully executed contracts yet. So that in itself is not proof that Sharone Moore's job security could be tenuous, but, you know, you do start to wonder the longer this goes without him having a signed contract, and I think it was Ward Manuel said recently that there's still some, quote, you know, things we're working through.
Well, you know, what could those things be? I think we have an idea of what those things could be based on the fact that Michigan is currently in the responding to the NCAA on a major investigation phase, and we know that based on the leak to Pete Famill in August of the initial NOA draft that Sharone Moore is part of this investigation. If there's, if there is in fact going to be a lifetime ban, we're not talking about that for Sharone Moore.
I think it's more Connor Stallions and Jim Harbaugh, if anyone's going to be at that level, but, you know, the idea that, you know, maybe Sharone Moore is not long for this job based on, you know, him being a part of this NCAA investigation, you know, that's going to be fascinating to follow. I mean, it would be quite shocking. It'd be quite shocking if this all ends with Michigan having to hire a new coach, but, you know, I think at this point, you know, until we see what those penalties are, nothing's out of the question and based on our conversation of him based on, you know, kind of just what we've speculated before.
I don't think we're going to see these penalties until 2025 because there is no settlement between NCAA and Michigan. They have those 90 days to respond. There's going to be a hearing after that.
Michigan has, has, you know, kind of had its line in the sand all along. We're not going to accept, you know, vacating our wins and championships. And so if they're not going to do that, most likely this thing is going to drag all the way out through a hearing.
But I do think it's an interesting conversation now of whether Michigan should now be thinking about do we self-impose some penalties on us right now, knowing that we're not that good because we both, we both had the opportunity to watch the Michigan-Texas game on TV before we headed down to Ohio Stadium to cover the Ohio State-Western Michigan game on Saturday. And, you know, we, we said it last week, we would both be surprised if Michigan won that game. But I think I still was surprised that Michigan lost that game as handedly as it did.
I mean, I don't think the 31 to 12 final score really reflected how dominant Texas was in that game. And, and I, what really shocked me was, you know, I, I think you could, you could see just based on how the first week went against Fresno State that their offense was probably going to struggle against Texas. Davis Warren is not somebody that I want to be super critical of because you look at his story.
This is a guy who had leukemia in high school. He walked on at Michigan. The things that he's had to overcome to get to this point, regardless of where your allegiances lie, I think we should all be able to agree, agree that, you know, for him to overcome those things that he had to deal with in, in high school to now get to be the starting quarterback at a program like Michigan, you have to give him kudos for, for what he has been able to overcome in his life.
The reality, however, is based on what we've seen in two games. He is not the caliber of quarterback that a championship caliber program needs. And I don't think Michigan has that quarterback right now.
I mean, I think Michigan's most talented quarterback is Jaden Davis, but he's a true freshman and there's been no indication that they're even considering playing him right now. And so you have, you know, a guy in Davis Warren who, you know, has done a great job in his life to overcome things and to really work his way up the depth chart to beat out a bunch of scholarship players there, but doesn't necessarily have the all-around skill set that Michigan needs to be able to beat teams like Texas and Oregon, Ohio State, perhaps USC based on how USC has started this season, which you know, if he's their best option, I mean, it seems like they're only ever real option is Alex Porgy and I think he's completed one pass so far in his collegiate career and there's just no evidence that he he can, I think if he was a passer who they thought could have consistent success in the Big Ten, he would be their starting quarterback right now.
So the fact that he's not is telling, you know, maybe Jack Tuttle when he comes back from injury, but Jack Tuttle's a guy. I mean, we all remember the famous story of how Ohio State was recruiting Jack Tuttle back when, you know, they ended up getting Chris Olave. Chris Olave is now in his third year in the NFL.
Jack Tuttle's still playing college football and he hasn't been a starter for a lot of those games. So, I mean that kind of tells you what Jack Tuttle is as a seventh-year senior there at Michigan. So, you know, I look at this Michigan team now and I think there's a very good chance this team is going to lose four games this season.
And if that happens, Michigan is not going to be in a college football playoff. So, would Michigan be smart to now just say we're going to self-impose a postseason ban on ourselves to try to get out in front of this? Would that ultimately make a difference in terms of what Michigan's ultimate punishment will be?
I don't know, but, you know, I'm an Ohio State fan, certainly are aware of this situation. You know, there were a lot of calls for Ohio State to self-impose a postseason ban on itself in 2011 when they went 6-6 and then lost the Gator Bowl. If Ohio State had done that, maybe it avoids the postseason ban, but it then got in 2012 when it went 12-0 during the regular season.
And so, you know, this is a different case. It sounds like Michigan's penalties could potentially be substantially more severe than what Ohio State's penalties was for Tattoo Gate. So I don't think self-imposing a postseason ban for this year would be a get-out-of-jail-free card, but it is something that maybe you consider now if you're Michigan, if you're trying to kind of change face and say, we're cooperating with you now.
If you're trying to kind of change your tune from we're going to fight against this no matter what to we're going to work with you now. Maybe that's something you propose that you agreed to do to start to accept some wrongdoing and then hope the NCAA will take leniency on you in the end.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I would agree that that's something Michigan should think about, but I don't really think it's going to create that much leniency. I obviously can't know like you said, but what you hear from Premier Drum to me is what I've thought for a long time too is that this is a point where the NCAA wants to stamp its authority and say, hey, we can still govern, we can still administer fair play and make sure that the game is being played in a legal fashion on the field, even if NIL and the transfer portal and all these other things they've kind of washed their hands of, right?
This is something that they want harsh penalties and you saw them push back when Michigan self- imposed the Harbaugh suspension, right? That was another good point I thought by Premier Drum of, you know, this isn't enough, right? So, I think you could self-impose a postseason ban this year.
Maybe if that was going to be included in next year's punishment, you get that out of the way, which was always kind of the argument with Taptoogate and Ohio State should have self-imposed a postseason ban in 2011, but I don't think it'll impact the amount of wins that are vacated. I don't think it'll impact any penalties that are levied at coaches. I don't think it will soften the blow that much, but it might help some and like you said, in a season where this is a down year for Michigan, you might go ahead and do that.
Back to Michigan on the field a little bit. I honestly, I thought it would be a close game mainly because Michigan was at home with Texas, but I wasn't surprised that Texas dominated in the fashion they did just because Michigan lost like, I believe it was 44 players from last year's team. They are, they have a completely new offensive line.
That's unproven and clearly struggled against Fresno State, struggled in this game. They had, like you said, the quarterback issues. There are some defensive questions outside a couple key returning pieces.
Rob Moore out for the season. This is a team that lost a lot, has a revamped overhauled coaching staff that's half new, and when all that change occurs, it's very hard for any program to sustain a level of success that's going to allow you to compete with Texas, who I think is, in my opinion, the third best team in college football this year, behind Ohio State, Georgia. And I think they showed some of that on Saturday.
One of the best offensive lines in the country, one of the best quarterbacks in the country, if not the best with Quentin Ewers this year, a pretty sound defense. Like, Texas is really, really good. Michigan, not as good as their top 10 ranking either, but those combinations of things, I wasn't ultimately shocked that Texas did dominate in the fashion they did, even if I personally was predicting a closer game.
[Dan Hope]
I think it's safe to say that Saturday was a good day for Ohio State fans, because they got to start the day by watching Michigan suffer its first home loss since 2020, its first loss of any kind since 2022, its first regular season loss since 2021. You also saw Penn State struggle to beat Bowling Green. You got to see Notre Dame, who's, you know, not a conference opponent, not really a rival, but still kind of a team that I think Ohio State fans, you know, feel some type of way about.
They lose to Northern Illinois. So now, you know, that happens. You're kind of going into the Ohio State game on Saturday night going, oh, well, you know, we've been saying like this should be an easy win for Ohio State, but Penn State almost just lost to a Mack school.
Notre Dame just lost to a Mack school, like maybe we should like back up a minute and like, watch out. Like, this is a Western Michigan team that beat or had a lead early in the fourth quarter last week against Wisconsin. Like, you know, maybe, you know, maybe we shouldn't just chalk this one up as a W yet.
And then about five minutes into the game, I think it was like, yeah, we can, we can chalk this one up as a W because Ohio State, you know, we talked about it last week. Maybe Ohio State fans were, you know, a little bit left unsatisfied after that 52 to six win over Akron just because a slow start offensively, some of the inconsistencies we saw in the blocking game. But that performance on Saturday against Western Michigan is exactly what you want to see from a team that's supposed to be really, really good against an overmatched opponent because it was really a complete 60-minute game.
I mean, the offense did not start slow whatsoever. They scored touchdowns on five of their first six possessions and really it should have been six of six because if not for a hold, Quinshawn Judkins would have had an 80-yard touchdown run at overdrive. Meanwhile, the defense could not have been more dominant.
They did not allow a single point first shutout in exactly five years. They forced three and outs on 10 of Western Michigan's 13 possessions. One of those ever free was a one-play drive to end the first half.
They held Western Michigan to 99 yards the first time since 2017 that Ohio State has held an opponent under 100 yards, five net yards of offense in the second half. And that was with Ohio State mostly playing backups on defense. So you certainly saw the depth of this Ohio State defense again.
I think we saw the offense, particularly the offensive line, take some clear strides in this game. And yes, it's only Western Michigan. Yes, there's much bigger tests to come, but you just talk about Ohio State being in that elite realm of teams with Georgia and Texas.
I can't sit here and argue against Ohio State being number three NBA people because Georgia has a win over Clemson. Texas has a win over Michigan. Ohio State does not have any big opponents on its resume yet, but I came out of that game thinking like, yeah, this is an Ohio State team that can win the national championship.
Did you feel the same way?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah. I always go back to like watching that 2019 team and early in the season, they blew out Nebraska big time on the road. And after that game going, yeah, this is what it looks like.
This is a complete team that can win a national title. And that's the feeling I got even against a foe as a much lower level foe than Nebraska and Western Michigan. But this again, a team that scared Wisconsin last week.
And I think the number one thing was just the improvements on the offensive line from week one to week two. That was what I needed to see per like in my thoughts of this offensive line has been the question for two years and they needed to take strides from some of the run blocking lapses they had against Akron. Austin Ceravel was one of the biggest standouts for me on my rewatch.
I went back and I always love to watch the line of scrimmage specifically when I rewatch games because you just you're always watching the backfield sort of when you're watching in real time and trying to see what's happening on a play. It's always good to watch the line of scrimmage and man Austin Ceravel moves bodies at left guard. I know he's he's probably not going to be in the starting lineup starting their next game against Marshall, but he I think was a good earmark of sort of just an overall step the offensive line took in the run blocking department.
Seth McLaughlin blocked fantastic all game. Josh Simmons looked great. Josh Fryer had a couple really nice blocks including one that sprang Quintron Judkins for a touchdown.
Tegra Shibola looked solid. I think that the offensive line is really starting to come together in this scheme and there will be bigger tests. They're going to play better defensive lines.
They'll be interested to see how they do in that in those games, but overall, I think you got to love the improvements and man Chip Kelly. I just cannot say enough about what he's doing as an offensive coordinator right now and it's twofold. One is he's calling great plays.
I love the use of pre-snap motion. I feel like that's something that's been absent from Ohio State's offense in the past couple of years, but most of the snaps, there's somebody moving across the lines for some sort of motion to change the look for the defense. So much misdirection.
He does such a great job of getting bodies moving side to side and just opening up running lanes that way. The fourth and one call was brilliant, even if it was, you know, down the stretch of the game when the game was well at hand and the touchdown pass to Bennett Christian was gorgeously dialed up to get Julian Sain a touchdown there. But the other part of it is, again, Ryan Day is clearly involved more in the other phases of Ohio State as more of that CEO role.
He had more to say about special teams. Talking to him postgame, in press conferences, a lot of times, I think in past years, a difference I've noticed. In past years, when you ask him about a defensive player, he'd kind of, he'd sometimes defer to Jim Knowles and say, probably ask Jim about that.
You see a big game out of Art Valries again, you ask Day about Reese and he's got a nice answer. And it's, you can tell he's just more involved in all those phases. He's yelling more and serving as more of a motivator on the sidelines.
And just that, that chemistry between he and Chip Kelly was another thing that really stood out for me in week two.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, you can see it on a TV broadcast when Quinn Temple was pulling Ryan Day back. It's a 35-0 game and Day's just going crazy, yell, yelling at the official. And I think that's like, we're seeing more of it this year because of the fact that, because that was when Ohio State was on offense.
Whereas I think in past years, he's thinking about what's the next play I got to call. Well, now he's going, well, well, Chip's going to handle that. So I'm going to go get him a refs here.
And I think that's certainly something that was striking in this past game is I think you wondered coming in, is it going to be Chip Kelly running the Ryan Day offense? And I think what we're seeing is it's Chip Kelly running Chip Kelly's offense, but I think you can see that, you know, this offense does have a different look and feel to it than it did for the past five years. And I think that's Ryan Day really trusting Chip to, to call the plays.
Ryan, of course, still has an influence on it, but I think that he's really trusting Chip to be the guy who calls that play every play on offense. And so far, uh, the results there look really good. I mean, it just seems like, it just seems like things are clicking in a, in a, in a, in a way for this team or maybe some of those things that were just a little bit off the last few years.
You know, I think that's one of those things. I think, you know, Chip, Chip calling plays on offense. I think day and all the coaches being more bought in on special teams, I think is another example of that.
And I, and I think those things are, you know, really, you know, really starting to click together. And again, much tougher tests to come. Like we can say this now when they blow out Western Michigan, we'll see how well they play when they go to play Oregon at Autzen Stadium a month from now, but Oregon, I mean, Oregon, man, they've, they've come dangerously close to losing to teams from Idaho in each of their first two games of the season.
And so I still think Oregon is the second best team in the big 10, but I don't know for sure. I mean, I mean, somebody posted it in our slack of the other day and it was a valid question. Is it possible that USC is the second best team in the big 10?
Again, I don't think we've seen enough to, for me to go there yet, but I mean, this is a team, their, their defense looks vastly improved with D Anton Lin as defense coordinator. You know, Miller Moss is looking like a, you know, very strong contender for, you know, big 10 quarterback of a year type season. I wouldn't go there yet to say, I think, you know, USC is the second best team in the big 10.
I, I'd still probably say Oregon, and then I'd probably still say Penn State, but this is going to be a very interesting conference race. And I think if you're Ohio state right now, you know, you can't get complacent and, and there's no reason to think they are. I mean, we heard the players, uh, repeatedly say it, Ryan Day say it after the game on Saturday, you know, this is not a bye week.
This is an improvement week. So they know there's tougher tests to come and, you know, Ryan Day said he, he bought a big reason why they played so well on Saturday was how well they practiced during the week. You know, they have to maintain that level of intensity.
And that is so much easier said than done. It's so easy for us to sit here and say, oh, you know, they got to bring their a game every week. This is a season that if it goes the way we think it can go, it's going to be over five months long.
So to bring that same kind of intensity week in and week out, it is easier said than done. And we still have to see if this team can actually do that. But so far so good.
I mean, the, the early indicators of this team, especially what we saw against Western Michigan would suggest that the hype for this team is warranted. It's not to say they will win the national championship, but it's to say that I think this team is capable of achieving all of its goals. And I think, you know, certainly fitting with the theme of this episode, you have to go beat Michigan before you can start celebrating anything against Michigan because you haven't beat them in four years.
You've lost them for years in a row. But I think if you're Ohio state, you're probably feeling as good as you felt about your place relative to the rivals as you have in some time based on the way you've started this season and the way they've started this season.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, probably the best you felt since 2021 before Ohio State lost the first of this three game losing streak. I would, I would argue. There are more developments to come in that story, of course, but you know, just kind of wrapping up the talk about Ohio State and where this team goes moving forward.
It's, it's again, just seeing those tests. And I think Oregon, I'll be very interested to see how they respond to these first couple of weeks, how, how they've struggled because on paper, they still have a really talented roster. I still agree with you, Dana.
I'd still put them second best in the big 10, but USC is making a case. And also Penn State struggling. I mean, it's like you could kind of pick and say, well, is Ohio State really going to get truly tested until the playoff if Penn State and Oregon continue to look the way they've looked.
If those teams make strides and I kind of expect them to, it's September. It's still the first two weeks of the season. I know Ohio State got there really quickly in this last game, but teams do take time to gel and develop.
So I expect them to get there and be those tests that you're looking for. Cause you want to see this Ohio State team get tested before they would potentially play in a college football playoff or a big 10 title game. But we're going to find that all out over the next month.
I think it's going to be very telling where the rest of the big 10 is up until Ohio State plays Oregon.
[Dan Hope]
I think Ohio State will get tested. I mean, I think it's so easy to sit, you know, you start looking at games on paper, but again, look at what just happened in college football this past weekend. Some of these teams that got tested or even in the case of Notre Dame lost to teams that were not supposed to be anywhere close to beating them.
There's going to be tests to come for Ohio State. I mean, they're, I mean, the, the two teams they've played might be the two worst opponents they'll play in a regular season. So there, there are going to be bigger tests to come.
I think Ohio State is going to be heavily favored in most games. It might be favored in all games. I know it started the year as an underdog against Oregon, but I think there's a good chance that line is going to shift based on the way of these first couple of weeks have gone, but there's going to be tests to come.
And so I think, you know, you know, we have to be careful not to get too far ahead of ourselves here, but I do think if you're just looking at it right now, based on what we've seen for two weeks, it does feel like, you know, Ohio State, Georgia, Texas, maybe Alabama, like that's kind of your elite tier of teams this year. And it feels like the rest of a big 10, some of them, whether it's Oregon, you know, maybe Penn State, maybe USC, some of them are kind of in that second tier. It's not impossible that any of those teams could make the jump to the first tier, but you know, there's clearly still some work to do.
I think going into the year, I felt like Oregon wasn't that first tier. And now until I see them actually go out and you know, dominate an opponent they're supposed to. And with that being said, I think Boise State is a good team.
I think Boise State remains a very strong contender to win the group of five berth in the college football playoffs. So I don't want to, you know, knock Boise State because I mean, they've got probably the best running back in the country and Ashton Chente. That could theoretically be a game we see rematch in the college football playoffs.
Like we could see Boise State leave a 12 seed playing a five-seat Oregon. Like I think that's a that's a realistic scenario because I think Boise State is very much in that conversation to be that group of five team in the CFP. But you know, going back to Oregon, you know, you need to see them start to play better just that simple before you can put them in that top tier with Georgia, with Ohio State, with Texas, Alabama, whoever else might be in there.
Another interesting game for them this weekend is they're going to play their rival Oregon State. Not the most exciting slate of games for an Ohio State bi-week. Not really any super marquee matchups like there were with Texas and Michigan this past week, but we've seen it before.
These are usually the kind of weeks where some kind of chaos happens. So while we will not have a game to carve this weekend, it will still be fascinating to see what else happens around the country.
[Andy Anders]
I'm excited to watch some college football. I think I'll be engaging in some other activities on Saturday. So maybe not a full, you know, sometimes on bi-weeks, I like to just sit my rear on the couch and watch college football all day.
I don't think that'll be the case for me on Saturday. I'm going to get out and touch some grass, as the kids say, but I will be tuning in when I can.
[Dan Hope]
Believe it or not, we do leave our houses once in a while. Believe it or not, as much time as we spend in front of our TVs and computers, once in a while, we need a little bit of a break. So I'm right there with you.
Probably try not to spend my entire weekend watching football, but I'm sure I'll still watch a good amount of it. And so we'll be back next week for more Ohio State focused talk as Ohio State prepares to play its third game of the season next week against Marshall. That game will be a noon game on Fox on September 21.
But for now, enjoy the rest of this first Ohio State bye week, improvement week, off week, open date, whatever you want to call it. And we will see you again next week on RealPod Wednesdays.