Welcome back to the Inspired
Living with Autoimmunity podcast.
I'm your host, Julie Michelson,
and today we're joined by Dr.
Kathy Campbell, a clinical community
pharmacist who owns and operates an
appointment based practice within her
full service pharmacy in Owosso, Oklahoma.
She's also the author of
Obesity, the Modern Famine.
And in today's conversation, we
are talking about how understanding
human evolution can lead us back
to true wellness by addressing the
missing pieces of our modern culture.
Dr.
Kathy, welcome to the podcast.
Hi Julie, great to be here.
I know a little bit about your story,
but I would love for you to share with
listeners, you know, how did you become
the author of obesity, the modern famine?
How did you shift this paradigm?
I'm, I'm guessing some of your peers
are thinking they're not practicing
pharmacists in the same way you are.
So share a little bit
of your journey with us.
A
um, I have been, I consider myself
a clinical community pharmacist or a
clinical wellness pharmacist, and I've
been practicing in one town for 32 years,
and I've had the profound privilege
to serve four generations of patients.
That is a very interesting point of view.
I have known some of these patients
longer than I've known my mother.
And I did not want to get
those conversations, I've got
cancer, I've had a heart attack.
And so as we've all aged, I started at
25, as we've all aged, um, I just became
more and more aware that the medications
we were dispensing were not providing
the level of vitality and health that I
wanted for these people I cared about.
Um, Obesity was part of it.
Um, you know, we started seeing more
and more and more, and I just happened
to be a personal expert in that
because I've studied it my whole life.
I was a hundred pounds at five years
old, 200 pounds at 10 years old.
And this is in the sixties and seventies.
And I had a 350 pound grandpa
who lived during the great
depression at that weight.
um, family, we were always one at the,
the 10 percent of the population that
was overweight, that was always us.
And I knew it wasn't just about the
food, um, 20 years of weight loss,
low fat weight loss, all I've, I've
studied it all through my own lens
and then after gaining three degrees
through the lens of my patients
and, and these people I care about.
And so over time, I.
I was challenged to create, I'm an, I'm
an entrepreneur, I have my own pharmacy,
which is kind of an interesting place to
be, and I was challenged to create a new
product to actually serve my patients.
Um, I didn't want to
sell more prescriptions.
I wanted to help them not
need the prescriptions.
And so, It's a little, uh, disruptive.
Let's put it that way, at least
it's, it's kind of counterintuitive.
That's for sure.
But it really is a great place to live.
And as a chemist, as a, a, a, the
professional change that is, uh, trained
in metabolic function and biochemistry.
And how to manipulate and change those
things as we do with medications.
I just started looking deeper.
And then I started offering my
knowledge to patients in helping them
discover and figure out their journey
because each of us are so unique.
And so I partner with patients to do that.
I'm a partner in health for sure.
What a lucky town you live in.
I mean, really, this is the
kind of pharmacy we need in
every downtown, for sure.
I wanted my patients to have
a place to go and be well.
Yeah,
You know, and seven out of 10 patients.
are on a medication of some sort
and they no longer have that
pharmacist relationship to help
them really understand and optimize
whatever therapies they're on.
I'm not against pharmaceuticals.
I'm actually the one
you want on your side.
I am against you needing them.
And so I have just shifted my focus and
my business model to support patients
and not needing pharmaceuticals.
which I love.
And personally, I mean, I just I
applaud you as somebody who was
on 10 prescriptions at one point
and half of which were for side
effects of the other prescriptions.
Um, I don't know, and who was
in that model of nope, nothing
you can do take your meds.
So I just.
Boy, if I had crossed your path,
we would have dug in.
I would have maybe gotten here where I
am now a little sooner, but that's okay.
We're here now.
We'll get there.
So question for you, why?
Why the obesity epidemic?
Actually, let's even before we get there,
maybe it's all part of the same answer.
Um, what do you mean?
I love the title of your book.
Um, and I have my own ideas
of what it means, but, but why
obesity, the, the modern famine.
We're starved.
We are in a society, in a culture
that completely is devoid of what we
need to function as a human species.
I have it broken down.
There's about 24 famines
that I've identified there.
Fundamentally, I've got five
chemistries, five criticals.
You've got to have certain
nutrients, You've got to have oxygen,
sunlight, water, and connection,
So much of that is missing.
Oh, it's completely devoid
culturally, not individually.
And actually, it's a cultural phenomenon
that we've, I think we have to address.
And what I do is coach individuals
to assess their culture.
And when you assess the culture,
you are actually discovering what
is it that your body is surviving.
And when you When you can kind of tease
that out, we can go about supporting that
culture, crafting the culture and making
it so that you can live on this Petri dish
and actually have health as a byproduct.
Um, I literally think of
culture like the Petri dish.
What are you living on?
And how, how nurturing is
the medium that you're there?
yeah.
Well, I, I often teach other
pharmacists and other practitioners.
And so that really seems to communicate.
Okay.
sure.
Especially the, some of us
are the visual learners.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
So what is it?
I mean, that sounds so basic and
listeners, you know, the book
you're, you're, what brought you
to this world was obesity, but
all of these things are essential
for healing and prevention period
Absolutely.
these chronic illnesses that are on
the rise today, including autoimmunity.
Yes.
And I've actually had several
people who've read it who are
not obese and they're like, man,
I need this, but I would have
never actually have picked it up.
And, you know, to me, one of
the things that I see and why
I chose to focus it on obesity.
Was the complete, um, bankrupt
strategy medicine has around obesity.
This eat less and exercise more is
abusive and it is punitive and it
actually causes stress hormone and chaos.
And so these people need to be
cared for and they need a new
paradigm to stand in for themselves.
And that's really what
I wrote the book for.
I wrote the book for, for the individual.
Not at all for my peers,
not at all for medicine.
I need people to see that not only
are these things playing in their,
potentially in their situation, they are
not, they can't be difficult to address.
Um, and if they are difficult,
they're not difficult because
you're weak or you're lazy.
They're just difficult because we live in
a world that particularly makes it hard.
Um, and, and I encourage people
to get a little mad about that.
Because when you get mad, the energy
to focus on the things that we can do
emerges and we might cook, or we might
walk, or we might call a friend, or
we might do some things differently
that will create different outcomes.
I love that.
Right.
What's the definition of insanity
Over and over.
and over expecting a different outcome.
But, and it is true.
And I, I think where, wherever
it happens in their journey.
Anger is an inevitable part of the
healing process because so many of us
were just trying to do the right thing.
And we were completely misguided.
Um, so I want to get back to these.
These, these basics, right?
The nutrients, the oxygen, the
wine, because people are like,
Oh, please, I do all that.
Hmm.
Maybe not.
And I think as a society, we're
so trained to, you know, well,
tell me what to avoid, right?
We're always like what to take
out, what to, you know, what,
what are we going to be, you know,
locked down about and instead of
this, no, actually we're missing.
These things.
Um, so I want to, I want to dig into
that a little bit and, and share with us
because you shared before we hit record,
um, you have a zoology background.
Well, yeah, I've got, um,
three degrees, actually.
I've got a bachelor's of zoology,
a bachelor's of pharmacy, and
then I went back and received
my doctorate of pharmacy.
And I, in thinking about, you
know, my patients are looking
to me, what should I do, Kathy?
How should, and to counsel them,
I wanted to, and with my own.
Um, understanding, um, really
understanding the evolution of humans
and what was foundationally there,
um, I think is a critical foundation.
So humans evolved for 400, 000
years, hunting and gathering
and moving in order to live.
And when Whenever they were
hungry and they had a stress
hunger, they grabbed the leaf.
They grabbed that which didn't run
away, And it was rarely big game.
I think it was very quite often it was
plant, tubers, There was one article
I read that said the gatherer saved
the hunter almost, uh, very often.
And so, leafs, tubers,
bugs, eggs, nuts, um, fish.
Fish was always a relatively common,
if you look at where humans evolved,
there was always a river close.
Right?
And so the Omega 3s, we never had to
actually learn or evolve the ability
to make because there was always a
sardine around or some kind of fish that
well, and we weren't
eating tons of omega sixes.
to throw that ratio out of balance either.
Right, and we weren't inflamed.
There wasn't, the kind of inflammation
we had was stepping on a rock or, or
muscular, it was not intravascular.
well, like stress, right?
Like we, we had, we had acute
stressors, not chronic stress,
which is one of the things we all,
you know, this is in our Petri dish
Yeah,
for sure.
I actually think about it as
pharmacology, which is the study of
chemicals interacting in the body.
But I also think food pharmacology,
how those body of chemicals
actually work in the body.
But the hard one, those things are
easy compared to stress pharmacology.
Uh, but when I say stress pharmacology,
there's two sides to that coin.
There's the ones that are very challenging
and have us survive in a fight or flight.
But there's also the love and
the nurturing and the oxytocin
that is the counterbalance and
that is one of the famines.
The fact that we don't have as much of
those love chemistries and connection
chemistries and that is the chemistry.
And those are very difficult.
I mean, my patients are chronically
challenged with the demands.
And, you know, I'm a good girl.
I was born in the sixties and I have
an identity that has me be a good girl.
So any threat to that just gets
the whole machine in chaos.
And I, I'm not alone.
You see that quite often,
especially in my generation.
Um, so yeah, it
Wow.
So that's that connection piece.
Um, let's talk a little bit.
I love, I want to circle back and
highlight, um, cause I, I refer often to
paleolithic times, you know, again, back
to real food and what were we eating?
Um, and, but I really want to highlight
this, this idea of movement, you know,
that it was just a daily part of life.
because I, again, I think this is
where society, like we go too big
now and a lot of listeners, you
know, have physical challenges there.
And so I, I don't love the word
exercise, um, as it's, as it's
received because you know, a lot of
people jump to CrossFit and gyms and
we don't necessarily need all that.
If you love it and you're doing it
in a way that supports your body
instead of drives inflammation.
Great.
But I, you're not going to.
Find me at the gym.
Um, now I have equipment at home.
Doesn't mean I'm not
taking care of my body.
right.
No, I mean, it's a really important
topic, and I, especially if you
think of where I'm at in a pharmacy
situation, I have people that run
the gamut of being bed fast for six
months and have to rehabilitate.
I actually like the concept pre
habilitate instead of rehabilitate,
but that's another conversation.
So, um, again, humans.
I hate the term exercise
and I rarely recommend it.
It's not exactly what needs to
happen and it's also a weapon that
is used in our medical system and to
judge each other or even ourselves.
So I try to really
separate that conversation.
Um, we aren't, and it's great the
blue zones, the blue zone research
that just jumped off the map that
nobody in these blue zones, that would
be a hundred, routinely exercise.
But they all move.
And
They moved and had that
connection and purpose, right?
So, you know, grandma might be walking
up the steps in the village to teach
something or, you know, there was
this constant, she wasn't in the
gym, but she was moving every day
was moving.
connected to community.
Yeah, a hundred year old
women in Okinawa squatting.
All the time and getting up and down.
They never had to worry about getting
off and down, getting up and down from
a toilet because they were sitting on
the floor, getting up 50 times a day.
So that movement was built
into their their life.
Now, as a chemist, I'm always trying
to figure out the biochemistry.
And I really think as most pharmacists do
with this thing called mechanism action.
So I revisited relearn.
So here's this.
Here's a a, um, a little secret
for your medical practitioners.
We all passed this test that, that studied
the micro, the mitochondria and the Krebs
cycle and completely forgot it right
afterwards because it was so traumatic.
Okay.
So I went back and started digging
in to the mitochondrial function
and the electron transport chains
and all these metabolic processes,
which I'm manipulating with drugs.
But it just occurred to me that nobody was
having really good function to begin with.
what was interesting is I was preparing
for a presentation and I pulled up the
ATP molecule, adenosine triphosphate,
which is our little battery pack, right?
And what was remarkable to me when I
was just looking at it was this little
molecule that we have to actually
create our body weight every day.
We have to manufacture our body weight
and utilize our body weight every day.
Each molecule has 13
atoms of oxygen on it.
So that's why.
If I put a pillow over your face,
you're not going to be here very long
because in order, you have to have the
oxygen deep within the cell to generate
the energy that runs our machine.
Now, heart was never designed to
be the only pump that put it there.
Never.
And that's why we see so many.
cardiovascular issues that have
diseases of low oxygenation.
Actually, many of the chronic diseases
have low oxygenation issues like 65%.
The heart is important in circulating,
but more than that is the muscular
contraction of everything else.
to help drive that oxygen.
And that was naturally provided
for with hunting and gathering
and utilizing your body to live.
And so part of the big
missing is famine of movement.
We just do not have the kinds,
types, and frequency of movements
at any stage in our modern culture.
And I actually think the more fun
you can have moving, the better.
And, and we've got to build that into
where it is a natural, fun way to do it.
I, I want to sponsor, I'm in the
process of sponsoring city, uh,
citywide, communitywide dances.
Again, we need some polka.
We need some square dance.
We need the kind of things that we
can connect socially, emotionally,
cognitively, and physically and
not even realize we're doing it
Right.
That's the, the, the best
way, you know, absolutely.
And when it is fun, you're creating that
feedback loop and you keep doing it.
Right.
I was thinking, as you were talking about
the heart as a pump, so I'm an equestrian.
I live on a little farm, have my
horses and other horse people that
are out there already know this.
But every, you know, horses have
what's called a frog in their hoof.
in the center of the hoof.
It's soft.
It's not a, it's not part of the actual,
you know, gelatinous hoof structure.
And it's a pump to pump the blood.
It's a mini heart, pumps the
blood back up those skinny little
legs into the 1200 pound body.
And so it would make perfect sense You
know, that we would be created, created
with also some, I don't even want to
say redundancy systems, but you know,
more than one approach here to get
our blood circulating and oxygenating.
So I love, I love that
you brought that up.
Well, low oxygen creates low
ATP production, low iron.
You know, anything that
interrupts that whole delivery
system of oxygen is complete.
Yeah, all of it.
And, you know, heavy metals, all that
is disrupting the ATP production.
But fundamentally, if you don't
have enough oxygen, instead of the
38 units that you potentially could
make, you might be making 10 units.
And if that's the case, the body
appropriately sequesters the energy where
it has to, which is warm and breathing.
You're not going to be happy.
You're not going to be cognitively fit.
You're going to be grumpy and irritable.
You're going to be obese.
as a survival mechanism
to that whole dynamic.
And so when I help people with
this, those are the basics.
And it's amazing what can
happen when you get those basics
built into your life again.
Yes.
Yes.
it's just.
Thanks.
Really good science.
And, and that is the, I love that
you said that's the, the whole point
of this conversation is because
the body can heal and recover.
It doesn't matter how many decades of
not getting enough of these things.
Um, you know, it is, it is miraculous.
And, and so I'm living proof.
Amen.
Yeah, I love it.
Let's circle back to the first
one in your list was nutrients.
Um, and, you know, again, we're always
talking about, you know, don't eat
gluten and avoid this and don't do that.
And um, I, we, I believe you're on the
already on the same page, you know,
it's not calories in calories out, eat
less, exercise more nutrient density.
Um, tell me a little bit about your
approach, you know, whether it's specific
nutrients you think we're missing,
or is it just this processed food
and this petri dish that we live in?
Well, I say it's the chemistry,
not the calories that count.
Uh, the chemistry and 100 100 calorie
chicken breast versus 100 calorie
donut are completely different.
Chemistry is creating
completely different outcomes.
And we have to start, I think being
disruptive as we think about that.
So there's, you know, we look at nutrients
and if you look at nutrients, there's
about 180 that are identified by the
FDA government that are important, but
they have found an astonishing 26, 000
different chemicals and whole foods.
Okay, there's 2300 chemicals, unique
chemical entities in garlic alone.
So This whole concept of vitamins,
I think, is way too limiting.
So what I tell patients is, Ah, we got
to get the food as right as possible.
We've got to get as much of these
27, 6000 chemicals in you so
your body has this smorgasbord to
work with, right, of chemistry.
Uh, You know, one of the things that
I see a lot is the, especially in
Oklahoma, is the use of medical marijuana.
And when you look at the
in Colorado, so just the
use of marijuana, period.
Woohoo!
And so when you look at the
biochemistry of that, I actually,
I, Don't distinguish chemistry.
I'm a chemist.
I'm looking at all the chemistry.
I'm not just holding on
to these patent drugs.
I'm looking at how the
body is being impacted.
And when you look at the endocannabinoid
system in this particular group
and you study it, you realize
there are endocannabinoid can
these these chemicals in all plant.
Okay, so there's these chemicals
in rosemary and broccoli and seeds.
These similar endocannabinoids in water.
Chemicals that you'll find
highly concentrated in marijuana.
You're finding it in all plants.
I actually think we're medicating a
plant and movement deficiency, and so
without the proper chem plant chemicals,
we have to as, like I said, adapt.
So I think we are profoundly
deficient in in plant.
Uh, nutrients and that's mostly
non starchy vegetables, but,
you know, I, I count them all.
Then there's nuts, legumes.
I want that breadth and that
smorgasbord of chemistry.
So I tend to go with a
modified Mediterranean, which
is a lower glycemic impact.
Uh, most of the people walking into
my pharmacy that I'm interacting with.
Are in this prediabetic metabolic
chaos stage, which is about
88 percent of the population.
So reducing generally getting a lot
more plant in 7 to 10 cups of vegetables
a day, getting more protein in.
Cups or servings, however you, you
do that, uh, getting more protein in,
which is in that, you know, 7 to 12, um,
servings a day, depending on your size
and your muscle mass, um, is a beginning.
And I always tell people we gotta
eat a heck of a lot of the right
stuff, and it is a lot, but we
also have to digest and absorb it.
Right!
You know, and so if you don't have a
gut that fully functions, or you don't
have teeth, or you don't have these
process, or you're not cooking, even
the process of cooking is preparing your
digestion to assimilate and digest and
absorb these nutrients so they can carry
it into that mitochondria eventually.
So I work at all those steps
to try to optimize that, but
basically plant and protein.
The other reason that we're really
missing a need plant is for the
benefit of our gut microbiome.
That is a garden we have to tend, and
what, what, what bacteria need and want
to thrive is fiber, and you get fiber
from non starchy plants, so, you know,
for the most part, and some of the
Not from a bottle of
Metamucil or whatever.
I'm kidding.
no, no, I get it, I mean, I, trust me,
I've sold a bit of Metamucil in my days,
but Metamucil But I always go back to
this other because I think there's just
way more bang for the buck and I think
if you really want a system that works,
you got to give it the gas it needs
to work and you know, you don't wait
until your airplanes in the in the sky
to figure out you got the wrong gas.
You need to be tending it along the way.
Yeah.
Well, and I love that you
hit on protein as well, um,
Mm
because I see a lot, uh, most people
that are coming in, even, even if
they're already eating whole real
foods, you know, pretty nutrient dense,
they're not getting enough protein.
It's, it's really interesting.
And so, especially then if we're talking
about, you know, somebody who is trying
to lose weight or is going to lose
weight from changing to a whole real food
diet, We don't want you losing muscle.
You know, you need those building blocks.
So it, it is, it's, it's just
something that things tend to, I'm
sure you see it too, like cyclically.
And, and right now it's
pretty much everybody.
I've been, even the men that I have
one, I client, I, he has a good sense of
humor, which is why he can work with me.
Um, and I tell him all the time, like,
stop eating like a middle school girl.
hmm.
you are a grown man.
You need more protein.
Well, I actually have a body composition
machine and in body in my my office and.
the clinic as well.
Yep.
unbelievably amazing tool to
assess the direction that the body
is, especially with medications.
I can look that stress, I can see that.
And so it's profound.
Oh, most frightening thing is
the sickest people I see are
normal weight, middle aged women
Right.
because they've starved
themselves their whole life.
Oh, even to the point of so sarcopenic,
I'm afraid they're going to break.
You know, the bones and everything
else and this whole metabolic
function occurs within muscle
within the mitochondrion muscle.
So lose, you never want to lose
weight at the expense of muscle.
And one of the things we're seeing
with the new weight loss drugs
is, is that whole massive Okay.
detriment.
And the other thing, muscle, muscle, low
muscle predisposes you to dementia and
osteoporosis and all these other things.
So it's really why I got the machine
because I wanted everybody to age better.
And I knew if I could manage
and modify and understand muscle
for patients and they could
too, then we could go on a path.
The other thing I see is medications are
really impacting the ability of the body
to, break down and then utilize protein.
And when you don't have enough
protein, your body cannibalizes itself.
And that's when you start seeing
these diseases of very low nutrients.
Um, and they're there.
I'm fortunately pretty epidemic
and I'm seeing it more and more
in younger and younger men.
Which is very frightening to have a
20 year old man who should be at the
height of his muscle be 10 pounds low.
And that is like not a good,
that's not the direction I want
for my peeps, that's for sure.
Yeah.
And it is, uh, you know, so we were
talking about earlier in this drop
in hormone levels across the board.
In younger people, fertility challenges,
but not just fertility challenges,
you know, somebody in their 20s, a
man in their 20s should have, you
know, pretty prime testosterone.
And I'm guessing in this particular
case, that was a factor as well.
Right.
things of my 32 years
was about a year ago.
I had two 28 year old men consult
with me with the same issues.
They could not create normal sperm.
And, You know, this
whole it's very complex.
Yes, hormones are part of it.
But if you're inflamed, your body
is not is going to shunt everything
to a cortisol pathway at the
expense of these sex hormones.
Um, and, and that's
what it does to survive.
But, but we, we are not addressing that
root cause or that underlying driver.
Which the body just doesn't have enough
chemistry to knit this thing together.
And the demands are
higher than the supply.
So I do bioidentical compound hormone
compounding and have for 20 plus years.
So I've been, yeah, yeah.
And I teach, I teach a lot about
it because women come to me often
in men saying, I want estrogen.
And I'm like, well, but there's
a whole bucket of other hormones
we need to be talking about.
Right.
And I even hear, I heard a practitioner
yesterday specifically referring to only
estrogen and progesterone for women.
And I'm like, it's not all there is.
And even I had a complete hysterectomy
four years ago, um, with an
oophorectomy for Intentional genetic
predisposition kind of choices.
Um, and wasn't worried about it because I
have great support, but my gynecologist,
who's a fantastic surgeon, said, Well, you
don't, you don't have a uterus anymore.
You can stop your progesterone.
And I was like, I still have other organs.
Yeah, your brain really likes it.
Uh huh.
And I, I'm a Bredesen coach.
I'm like, no, you know, thanks.
And I, that
tell people, progesterone binds to
the same place in the brain as valium.
You do not want a deficiency there.
Because that, what happens is estrogen,
I kind of call it a bitchy hormone.
Get her done, get her done,
Yes.
And progesterone is calming.
very
And well, everything in the
body has these opposing forces.
And, and so that's the, I under,
we didn't always live this long.
hmm.
if we want to live well, you know, it made
sense that especially women, but we were
just touching on, you know, younger and
younger men are having challenges as well.
But, you know, it used
to be have children.
If you make it to menopause, well,
you're kind of done anyway on the planet.
And now it's like, no, I want to be well.
I want to be productive.
I want to be strong, happy,
all the things I want to live.
Well, um, I, I had one client,
I could not believe it.
She had been on bioidentical
hormones when she retired.
They told her she didn't
need them anymore.
Why that's not nice.
Ignorance and arrogance, you know,
that that's a deadly combination.
Uh, and in, in some, in good faith, you
know, the women's study was so poorly
handled on how it was interpreted
And it's, that's still the
information that so many are
latched onto, even though it's.
It's, you know, there's, there's better,
newer, you know, it, it's, it's crazy.
It is, I think one of the studies that
almost everybody knows about and, but
they don't know the accurate information,
They, they don't under, they don't
really understand that it actually
showed protection and what showed not
protection was the synthetic progestin.
So
And I say this all the time.
I love my horses.
I don't want to take their hormones
and I don't want to give them
mine because I'm not a horse.
So,
I think, you know, one of the things
that's happened is we've been groomed to
think that health is in the pill bottle.
And the god of pharmacology
overtake, took physiology.
And so when you go back to basic
physiology and you look at the
dysfunctions that happen when basic
physiology is disrupted, you just don't
have enough chemistry to bake the cake.
You know, you don't
have enough ingredients.
What's going to happen?
And all the body's gonna.
Adapt.
Well, that's my whole point of view
is let's give it what it was designed
to have in a responsible amount and
let the individual help us discover
the nuances of the individual
optimal optimization because you're
you're your only biochemical entity.
You're the expert in your bag of bones.
What I know doesn't matter.
It's really what you know and what you
can understand is where outcomes happen.
It's where health happens.
But it's that love and
therapeutic relationship that
can allow the health to emerge.
And so, um, get me going.
I love this.
I mean, it, it, we got to give the
Sing it sister.
Yeah.
the basics and then stop messing it
up with this toxic stuff we call food.
You know, we have a whole, you know, I,
I see it as the 80s is when it shifted
and you and I remembered it because we
did not grow up eating a kid's meal.
right.
Right.
We ate what our parents ate,
Yeah.
if we didn't like it, too
bad, you didn't eat anything.
And then, wow,
my family was in the dairy business
and had, you know, history of
heart disease in the family.
And sadly we had like margarine on the
table, you know, I mean, we bought in
the hook line and sinker to the whole,
you know, low fat craze and fake food
is better than, you know, So, um, and
it didn't work, my dad passed at 54, so
it didn't, you know, didn't work, um.
But so getting back to that that
real food, but I think part of
the it's it's training right this
looking for the fix in the bottle,
you know, get what's the one thing.
Give me the one one thing.
And, but I love what you said about.
I'm going to misquote you but us
being something then expert in
our own bag of bones right like.
We need to reclaim that and be not only
our own advocates, but that also with
that empowerment comes responsibility,
then we have to do the things once
we know what the things are, because,
I mean, we do, or we create a life
where they may are easy to do.
I think that's a piece of it too.
I don't think it should be as
daggum hard to be well, other
cultures, it's not that hard.
Um, so if we get a
we've gotten so far away
from that, you know, um,
I think the internet's going
to change things a little bit.
I think, I think there's
a lot more information.
No longer is information expensive.
And the doctor isn't the
only one that has it.
So what medicine hasn't quite
figured out is that the consumer
is now in the center of their care.
And they are creating, if they're doing
it right, a network of people around
them to counsel, consult, support.
I always tell my patients if you're
putting anything in your body that's
chemical, you need a pharmacist, but a
good hairdresser is pretty valuable too.
You know, so, but this is a partner in
health network that where the patient
is the center, but we don't, That's not
the business of health care right now.
Health care is about a, no,
you have to have a diagnosis.
You have to be sick and to tap into the 4.
7 trillion called insurance.
Um, I think the consumer can
change that and the employer has
to start looking upstream of the
diagnosis, but that's my little rant.
Sing it.
Rant away.
Um, it, it, it is, and again, it,
it takes time, but as you said, it's
the, the, the community, um, you know,
when you're, when you're surrounded
by other people, You know, doing the
things and creating that lifestyle.
It does become easy and
it's always really easy.
And I remember when I first learned
the impact that lifestyle could have.
on my rheumatoid arthritis.
And I remember a friend saying to
me, and I was at the time eating
pretty close to like Wahl's protocol.
So, I mean, I was eating all the veggies.
I was eating lots of healthy fats,
clean proteins, lots of food.
And I remember one of my good
friends said, you know, I, I think
maybe you have an eating disorder.
You just don't, you just don't eat.
She must've offered me
like Doritos or something.
And I said, no, thank you.
And it's like, you know, it is so
much easier to create big change.
It's always one step at a time,
but when you were in a place where
you didn't feel well or you were
Mm hmm.
and then, you know, you get that,
your body gives you the reinforcement,
then it's not hard at all.
It's, you know, and so, um, this
is a perfect opportunity actually,
because we could talk for five hours.
Yes, we could.
Ha
that my, that the audience
has that bandwidth, um,
where, what would be one step?
It doesn't have to be the first
step, but what is like one step
that listeners can take starting
today to improve their health?
Find vegetables.
Find them in your day.
I mean, people bring me donuts, they
don't bring me broccoli, so I have
to find those plants to show up.
And I, you know, people have different
relationships with vegetables.
I get it.
Some, some people don't like them
or they like just green beans.
Start there.
Start where you are, good,
better, best, and go from there.
But increasing your consumption of plants.
is the first step, I
Love it.
Love it.
The adding in, we talked about this
earlier, I, you know, adding in is
so important even before you take out
because it makes the avoiding what you
shouldn't be doing or eating that much
Yeah.
It
So
does.
For people that are listening on the
go and aren't going to check the show
notes, where is the best place to find
you and, and plug the book one more time.
So listeners know where to look.
The best place is probably at
76th and Main in Owasso, Oklahoma.
Let me tell you, that's where I tend to
live, but you're not gonna get me there.
DrKathySays.
com, um, is probably the best
place and feel free to reach out.
DrKathy with a K, yes, absolutely.
Um, like I said, I'm a little technically
challenged, technology challenged.
I went to school with the best typewriter.
So this whole social media thing is
just a little frustrating sometimes.
But, I answer emails, I call
people back, so there is that.
Uh, the book is, the book is
Obesity, the Modern Famine, and
I'm extraordinarily proud of it.
It is written for the layman.
It is written for somebody who
doesn't have a clue or care about
the 250 citations in the back.
It's for somebody who wants
to understand the foundational
drivers of health and obesity.
And, um, and how to work with those.
It's very gentle, and I'm getting some
really good feedback from people who
appreciate the, uh, The, the approach, um,
when you're starved in something and you
can identify that, you can start gently
loving yourself in a way, uh, and creating
that world where it starts to show up
and you're starting to be taken care of.
So beautiful.
I'm excited to read the
book, um, because I will.
I will, I know I'll, I'll learn
a lot, but I also will check out
the citations in the back cause
Good.
a geek.
Um, so
I do too.
and again, wellness is wellness, right?
So, so obesity is not this too many
calories in and not enough calories out.
So all of the things in your approach
to helping people return to, or
maybe for the first time find true
wellness, it's the same thing.
Um, as, as I do with people with
autoimmunity, people with dementia and
Alzheimer's, it's wellness is wellness.
So,
Yeah, obesity is a symptom.
right.
It's just a symptom, and it's an
appropriate symptom of survival, and
those who are carrying extra wheat
or have struggled with this should
really sit back, and they should
acknowledge their body's miraculous,
uh, success in its survival.
And we haven't helped it a bit, so
hopefully with this book, we will give
you some gentle help, uh, to maybe
address some of the underlying drivers
that have never been addressed with you.
Dr.
Cathy, thank you so much.
You've given us amazing gold today
Yeah, thank you, Julie.
It's my pleasure.
for everyone listening.
Remember you can get the transcripts and
show notes by visiting inspired living.
show.
Hope you had a good time and enjoyed
this episode as much as I did.
I'll see you next week.