The State News discuss black culture, trending topics, issues in the black community, black clubs at MSU, and educate listeners about the black community.
Hey, y'all. It's your girl, Jada Vassar, and this is all shaded chocolate where I'm bringing the sweetest, the hottest black culture to MSU. Welcome back. Welcome back. I hope you guys are doing well.
Jada:I'm doing well. I'm here with another guest today. I want them to introduce themselves, you know, talk about your time at the state news, talk about some things you've written. And, yeah, I'm gonna give it to you.
Reiel:My name is Reiel Ghiglia. I am the environmental reporter at the Life Desk. It is my first semester here at the State News, and I'm really enjoying it so far. It's been a it's been a good ride.
Jada:Yes. You're doing a beat that I just started really liking. I we talked about it a little bit. I started writing about the environment my last internship. I love the environmental beat.
Jada:It's more than just talking about, like, okay. I admit, I was kinda I thought I was just talking about, like, water and grass and, like, true environment stuff. But when I got into it and learned about all the activism that actually comes with environmental justice, I was like, oh, this this is lit. I like this. So, yeah, she look.
Jada:I call her Ray Ray. Y'all can't call her that, though. That's that's just me. So Ray Ray, you know, all her stories, she's really getting into that beat, and I've been loving the stuff you've been putting out so far. And we got a good episode today, and I know you got some talking points too.
Jada:So I'm a shut my yapper up, and I'm a let you start off and talk about some things you want to get into.
Reiel:Well, I just want to talk about, like, how important just, like, literace cultural literacy is overall, but, like, it's and specifically, like, black literature is so important for, like I feel like it's really important for, like, outside cultures to understand black literacy and to understand black culture through that. I think because people are really ignorant and, like, they let their stereotypes get the best of, like, how they perceive other people. So I think literature is a great way for, like, people to be able to educate themselves on certain topics and cultural elements of people.
Jada:Yeah. And definitely coming from, like, someone who loved reading. I still love reading. Like, spare time, you'll probably find me reading. And I need to get back into some reading too.
Jada:I honestly feel like black literature and just black authors in general, getting into literature, like, authoring space, it's really all about, like, liberation. Like, creating that representation in a field that's likehonestly, in some books, especially like if you ever go to Barnes and Noble and you see like the different categories, like young adult and then the fiction and the nonfiction, you know, if you kind of go into that young adult section, it's getting better now. But honestly, when I was growing up, like high school, even middle school, like, the characters on the front cover, white, blonde hair, blue eyes. The guys, that jock character with the brunette or black black hair, six foot, really light skinned like. And these werethe plot lines were really good.
Jada:Like, they got the adventurous stories of, Oh, she's trying to find somebody who's after her. She has to go figure out this mystery or solve this puzzle. But none of those characters ever had the brown skin or the black skin or the textured hair or, you know, even getting as far as, like, you know, LGBTQ representation in books. There was none of that. It was very strict to the script books.
Jada:Yeah. So, that really kind of deferred me from reading a little bit, because at some point, it kind of felt like you were reading the same thing about the same person. And to me, that's not whatespecially writing a book and just all the ideas that come with it, that's not what it's meant for. It's really meant for you to tap into, you know, that expression that you have and those imaginative things that you really want to put into words. But growing up, seeing that, it's like, Okay, this isn't a space for me.
Jada:You know?
Reiel:For sure.
Jada:And now I definitely feel like we've gotten better, honestly, but there's still a lot oflike, there's a lot more that can be done, especially in the world of, like, fantasy and, you know, just those magical things where even some people don't think, like, there could be black, you know, characters or there could be black people in this imaginative world you created. There could be black people living in it. And it actually ties into a little bit, too. I know we've had, like, Auction Shock, we had it past, like, video game episode two. And there's a lot of games that, know, tailored to, you know, the mystical world, magic, all that stuff.
Jada:And those characters are blonde hair, white, you know, brunette hair. Some have, like, a browner tone, but not really that deep brown or black. But there is a game that just came out. And if you know me, if you watch episodes, you know I really like Assassin's Creed. I'm back into my video game bag, and it's about samurais, and there's a black samurai.
Jada:That game got pushed back three times for being released. And a lot of it was because people gave so much flak over having a black samurai. So many people saw the cover of the game and was like, Who is this character? This, you know, this wasn't in this time of Japan. Like, this person shouldn't be here.
Jada:You're messing up the story. You're messing up the book. This isn't a part of the game. And it's like,
Reiel:yo, hold on.
Jada:It's a it's a game. So I definitely feel like people kinda have the same energy when it comes to literature, too, because at the end of the day, we're all trying to enjoy it. Yeah. This is something everybody's trying to get into. And if you come with that attitude, you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna expect inclusivity, which everybody wants to preach, but nobody wants to do the work to do it.
Reiel:Mhmm. And, like, kind of going off of what you said about the game, like, I'm Japanese. And, like, most of, like, the Japanese, like, community, they didn't really care. They're like, okay. Yeah.
Reiel:I feel like it was mostly, like just like people who weren't really necessarily involved in, like, the specifics of the game. They were just, like, mad that there was, like, black representation where, you know, it really isn't normally it.
Jada:Yes. And I definitely agree with that because, yeah, even reading the comments, like, on post, like, they said, oh, it's gonna be released this day. And then it's, like, two, three thousand comments negative. Okay. We're gonna release it on this day.
Jada:And, you know, all game competitors are like, we wanna make sure the game is super good, and, you know, we wanna make sure it, you know, it passes everybody's expectations. But in reality, that was the only negative thing people were talking about, was this black character on the cover with this other samurai, and this black man on the cover with this other samurai. And, you know, it follows the story. If you know Assassin's Creed, it follows the story. But people could not just get that he was black out of their heads.
Jada:It was the biggest thing. And especially being a black person, it just continues to remind me that, like, that's all that sticks with people sometimes. Not about the story. It's not about what you're teaching me. It's not about even what you're telling me, whether it's right or wrong.
Jada:It's just what you look like. And I honestly feel like things like literature and books can help us escape that, because it could normalize it. Because if you see yourself in a book, books become TV shows, they become movies, they become so many types of adaptations. So, that means that you can see yourself in a TV show, in a movie, in a series, all of that stuff. But it starts describing what the character looks like, brown skin, dark chocolate skin, textured curly hair, you know, wearing the different accessories, the way that they talk, but not doing it in a way that's disrespectful because there's some books out there that try to write down dialect that's not okay.
Jada:Like, they y'all y'all should they never put that in the book. Y'all are wrong for that. And reading it, it's like, that don't even that don't even sound right. Like, it don't it it definitely don't sound right you writing it, but I would never say that. And I would never say it like that.
Jada:Like, what do you take it for? You know?
Reiel:It's like stereotyping on steroids. I feel like they're trying to be inclusive. They're trying to be like, oh my gosh. We're so inclusive. But then they're not executing it properly, which seems which is more disrespectful than anything.
Reiel:And I feel like it's really upsetting because, like, they think that they're like, oh my gosh. We're doing so great. We're being so diverse. But then in the end, it's like, no. You're kind of misrepresenting, which kinda leads to, like, more stereotyping and, like, misunderstanding within, like, outside cultures, for sure.
Jada:Exactly. No. I definitely agree with you. It's definitely the whole, here, take it. We gave you something.
Jada:Oh, here, take it. You know, this will be god. This is what you wanted. Take it or leave it because that's all we can give you. And it's like, you didn't even try.
Jada:You didn't even try to do no type of research, no learning. You just wrote this on a piece of paper and submitted it.
Reiel:Like And then they expect you to be grateful, and you're like, well, it's kinda hard to be grateful when
Jada:it's not. You know, it's kinda hard to be grateful when you're offending me, actually. What am I being ripped for that? Okay. So I have some questions for you.
Reiel:Okay.
Jada:So, as we're on, you know, representation and all that stuff, and like I always say, All Shit Chocolate was built to be that representation. It was built to be that, you know, for MSU students to have black MSU students to have somewhere they could go to see people that look like them, talking the way they talk, talking about the things we care about. Because sometimes that gets overshined a little bit at this university, because we're small, but we're mighty. So, as far as representation and your own self identity, how much do you see that in books? Cause our two identities differ.
Jada:So, you know, my experience may be different than what you see. But is it more? Is it less? Is it accurately represented? Like, what's been your experience with it?
Reiel:So, like, I was born and raised in Japan. So, like, in Japanese literature, I saw, like cause there's not much diversity in Japan. So, like, I saw people who looked like me, but I never saw, like, interracial representation per se. I came to America and, like, there was hardly any representation for me in American media. Like, growing up, like, I would get excited over, like, seeing Ni Hao Kai Lei on TV.
Reiel:I'm not even Chinese. I would get excited about that. And then, like, in books and stuff, like what you said, I mean, I was such a bookworm, so I was, like, really open to reading everything about anything. But it was kind of upsetting not to see people who looked like me or who had similar experiences. That's why, like, kind of going outside of, like, the status quo book and books and, like, going to, like, black culture or, like, Hispanic culture, kind of, like, looking at, like, outside literature that, you know, didn't really fit, like, the white blonde girl, like, ex jock, you know, that kind of trope.
Reiel:So I think because there was a specific book. It was called Blended by Sharon Draper. It's about, like, this mixed girl. Her, like, I think her dad was black and her mom was white. And, like, that was, like, the first representation that I felt like I got.
Reiel:And I was like so I didn't really see much, which was kinda disappointing, but I don't think it was like it didn't really discourage me from reading because I was open to Yeah. So much. But I know there was, like, other people that I've talked to that was like, well, I don't see myself. So, like, why should I read? Like, I'm not included in this.
Reiel:It's not an open space for me. You know? As a kid too, that's a really, I think, hard pill to swallow too, especially. Yeah.
Jada:Oh, yeah. Especially during childhood and just when you're starting to get into books. And especially when, you know, if you take, like, a language arts class or a reading class and a writing class, some you have books that you have to read throughout the throughout the year semester. I'm so stuck in college. The year, when you're in elementary and middle school and, you know, you have to read so many And I just remember all of these different times, all of these different types, you know.
Jada:It went from bookstores about, like, Shakespeare's era, and then you go all the way to, like, some newer books that everybody wanted to read. Like, when we got Percy Jackson, the lightning thief in my school, oh, come on now. We were, like, top what are you talking about? Like, we're reading Percy Jackson. Like, everybody wanted to read this book.
Jada:But even in books like that, there's few black characters in that book, maybe. There's a few mixed characters, too, but those main people, it's likefirst of all, I was such huge projection fan. Wanted to live in that world. But it's so hard just having all these visions as a kid and like, oh, my God, if I had these powers, if I could talk to these Greek gods and go on all these adventures that Percy went in. But the reality is that probably wouldn't have beenPercy's life wouldn't have been mine, simply because of how I And just like how you said, it's so important shaping, especially as a child, to just introduce them to all these different things.
Jada:Because regardless whether they like it or not, they're gonna be hit with it. You know, you're gonna meet somebody who does not identify the same as you, and you're gonna meet somebody that looks differently than you. But the difference between you doing it right or wrong is simply just knowing better. And I feel like reading helps you know better.
Reiel:Yeah. For sure. And I was, like, really blessed with the family that really encouraged cultural literacy and, like, that really kind of gave me a diversity of books. Because, like, what I what would happen with my house is that I would have, like, picture books of, like, different cultures. So I'd have, like so every week it'd be different.
Reiel:So, obviously, we'd have, like, the American culture. I'd have Japanese culture. I'd have, like, Latin American culture, black culture. And the one that I specifically read black culture, which was one of my favorites, it was called jazz age Josephine. It was a simplified story of, like, Josephine Baker's career and how she rose to fame and stuff.
Reiel:And, like, that was my very first exposure to black culture, which I'm very grateful for because I think I got, like, a really beautiful introduction to it, kind of like the world of dance and jazz and kind of like the beauty of black music. Yeah. But I know like a lot of people get exposed to, like, stereotypes or, like, kind of like in a negative manner. And, like, going off of what you said about Percy Jackson, like because I make vivid mind movies in my mind when I read. Yes.
Reiel:But I always imagined Annabeth as a person of color. So Doesn't it make sense? So, like, I think there was, like, a movie franchise and then there's, like, the Disney plus franchise. Yeah. And when I saw the movie franchise, I think she was white.
Reiel:Yeah.
Jada:And Yeah.
Reiel:I saw that and I was like, oh, well, rats. Then I saw her and then I saw her in the Disney plus movies and I got really excited. Was like, yes. And then like the uproar was actually insane. I was like, guys, it's not that serious.
Jada:Yeah. That too. Yes.
Reiel:I feel like and it's so important for kids these days to see people who look like them, you know. Because, like, in books, it's, like, free for all. Like, you can imagine whatever you want. But, like, when you see it, like, in movies, you can't really kind of divert from the fact that, oh, they don't look like me. So, like, Annabeth being black, I think, was so important.
Reiel:But then everyone's like, oh, no. She wasn't black in my head. Therefore, she can't be black.
Jada:And that part Lily, you make a good point, especially with that free for all part where you're just like, you have so much more range of creativity than a movie would. Because like you say, you get the cast of a movie, there's not more much you can do. Like, you can follow the book Persejects or something, you can follow the storyline, but you can't really venture off because one people would be like, okay, that just didn't happen. That's not how the book goes. But when you're writing that book, have, like you see, you have so much space to just do it and then to still follow that same script of these same characters.
Jada:It always mind boggled me, because if I was an author, I'd be making characters that are purple, that got green skin. Like, they'd be able to fly. Avatar. We'd be okay, Avatar. We'd be having tails and all these random because you have the ability to do so.
Jada:Could tell you no because it's a You could write whatever you feel is necessary on a piece of paper. And it's like, are authors, or are some authors really just tapping into that? Because there's also a list of so many black fantasy authors that I love. I've read so many authors. It's this one book I'm still reading.
Jada:It's called The Ace of Spades.
Reiel:I've heard of
Jada:that, Right now. So good. And it's like they're tapping into just what, especially creative writing, is. And it also sucks, because, like, some people don't consider those books fantasy. Right?
Jada:You say, So, yes, some people don't consider those books fantasy. They truly believe that fantasy genres look one way, because it's been that way for so long. But if you're writing a book, how are you gonna tell me my book can only look this way? It's my book. It's my storyline.
Jada:This is my storyboard that I did, you know, I did all my little notes character plots and character achievements for, and this is how I want it to look. So, the fact that they can work this hard, pre create this beautiful product, cover looks amazing, all of that. And you're gonna tell me that, oh, this isn't fantasy. So, that book, I think Ace of Spades still isn't considered a fantasy book. Like, it's still not in the fantasy category.
Jada:It's in thewhich I also do kind of hate with some bookstoresit's in the minority author section, I think, which is likecome on, bro. Like, come on, bro. Like, okay. We we you know the author is black, but come on, bro. I can't be in the non, the fiction, the fantasy, the young adult.
Jada:I can't be over there, which is what the book is. The book literally fits to a t in those genres. But the fact that it's written by a black person, they segregate and subject it to minority, the black little when it was black history month, the little tape, whatever they did, they try to, you know what I'm saying, fit in with the month.
Reiel:What's annoying is that they kinda, like, hide it in the corner too. I feel like Yes. The fiction or, like, book talk or, like, whatever. It's right in the center. It's everyone can see it.
Reiel:Everyone can find it. But if it's, like, minority authors, like, authors that aren't dominant, then it's, like, hidden in in the corner, hidden like, kind of, like, determined as niche. Yeah. But, like, it shouldn't be niche. Like
Jada:It's like, oh, this is a little different. It's not different. It's the same thing you wrote. The person may be different, but it's not different. Like you said, niche.
Jada:It's just, I don't know, little stuff that businesses are they try to do to be like, oh, we are being so representative. We're being so inclusive. You're actually separating way more than you think you're including. Just because having those tables and, like you said, this is all the way in this corner, but the second you walk in, all you're seeing this. And you know that most of the times I'm coming to see those authors.
Jada:I'm coming to see all these different types of people. So why can't that table be right next to it? Or share get a longer table. Like, what are we talking about right now? Like, get a little fucking table.
Jada:Who are not?
Reiel:Like, if you're, like, a million dollar, like, chain bookstore, like, should not be that difficult to get, like, a longer table,
Jada:you But, yes, you want it to get a little political too and talk about some stuff.
Reiel:Yeah. So, like, in terms of, like, kinda stifling creative freedom or, like, expressive freedom, I know that, like, a lot of books have been banned, but I, like, did my I did, like, some Internet surfing.
Jada:Okay. It to me.
Reiel:So I was looking at, like, books, like, banned books in general, all genres nationwide. So there are 10,046 books banned in the 2324 school year, which doesn't seem a lot on, like, the nationwide scale. Mhmm. But it was, like, basically, like how do you say, like, 5,000? Like, quintuple?
Reiel:The times because it was like, the years before it was like 2,000, like, 1,000, and then it's like 10,000. Yeah. Then, like, I was looking at specific books being banned because of, like, race and stuff like that. But the books banned being, like, solely because of race were all, like, black like, by black authors, which I thought was very, very odd. Because, of course, there are other, like, cultural books that are being banned.
Reiel:Yeah. But it wasn't like, they didn't have the excuse of race. It was just like, oh, sexualization or, like, incest. And, like, I feel like rape and incest is very valid reasons to ban a book. Yeah.
Reiel:But, like, with black literature, was like, all of this and then race. Yeah. Like, what is the necessity to include race?
Jada:Right? Yeah.
Reiel:And so I was looking at, you know, the books that were being banned. Primarily, it was, like, Angie Thomas books, like The Hate U Give on the Come Up Concrete Rose. And then All Boys Aren't Blue, which by George Johnson. That was another, like
Jada:Oh, I love that book.
Reiel:It was it's so good. And then, oh, The Color Purple by Alice Walker was also banned. But, like, the last two titles, they were autobiographical. Like, they're memoirs. Right?
Reiel:So the fact that, like, the government or, like, higher powers are trying to, like, invalidate these people's experiences are, like, crazy. Right? Because Yeah. Like, it's basically the government or, like, some, I don't know, like, group of people telling these authors, like, oh, your experiences are valid. Actually, we're gonna get rid of them.
Reiel:So, like, kids can't be indoctrinated with Yes. Which is actually really upsetting. And then the fact like, the DEI bans, like, they're just trying to erase other cultures from being in, like, people's minds, which is really, really kind of concerning.
Jada:Very. And that's why I never understand when you get certain people or you get individuals, and they're like, well, there's no examples of that. That can't be happening. Like, this isn't a thing. Dog, it's happening with books.
Jada:Are we seriously seeing this right now? Like, okay. Yes. We saw everything with DEI, all the laws being overturned, things being signed away. Hoo hoo.
Jada:It's happening with books. You're telling people you cannot read books. Like, I had to read The Hate U Give in high school. That was part of the list of books we had to read. Loved it, by the way.
Jada:My school took it to see the movie. Loved that book. These are books that is part of history and curriculum for a reason to teach these kids things about American history and how the country was founded and built. What are you going to them when you say, Oh, you can't read that book? You're gonna lie to them.
Jada:First of all, high school and under history already lies, and you don't tell half the stuff you're supposed to say anyway. We're not gonna get into that, though. That's why you gotta go to college and take a history class, because you'll learn way more than you did in high school. But what are you going to say in history now? What are we going learn?
Jada:We can only learn about the Founding Fathers for so much. And even when you do, what do you have to talk about with the Founding Fathers? Okay, yes, the secretary of state, building banks for the country. What are we talking about? Because all of it leads into talking about people that helped build the country that got stripped away from their homelands and the things that they knew, not by choice.
Jada:They were forced to come here to build all of the things we have now. And even a lot of the things that we have now, they still made great stuff out of it, generations down the line. Things that we use every day were built and created and experimented by people that don't look like you. So, if you say you've to take away these books, are you willing to take away everything that they made? Because I guarantee you, you could not live life comfortably no more.
Jada:And in fact, you're probably using something you don't even know was built by a black person, an Asian person, a Native American person. You don't even know. Because you don't first know what don't care to figure out. But you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just so mind boggling to hear, Oh, we're gonna take these books away.
Jada:You're harming the next generation from getting the knowledge we know. And they're gonna figure it out some way, and they're gonna be outraged, just like my generation was. Like, actually figuring out how much stuff they don't tell you about slavery and how much they don't tell you about people who actually owned slaves and the things that they did, when we found that out, even my class in high school, we were like, So y'all just was neverwe just weren't gonna talk about this stuff? Like, we literally went to our history teacher and was like, Hey, we did some research. Can we learn about this?
Jada:And the teacher says, Well, that's not part of our curriculum. We're not really gonna get into that. Like, no, we have questions about this. We understand all the other stuff. Like, thatwe understand that.
Jada:We have questions about this and what this means for us and how, you know, our people got here. That's what we have questions for. So, it's just the taking away books thing, it just blows my mind. As someone who loves books and knows how much reading books and literature brings just in general for knowledge and how much power a book can hold, taking away these people, like you said, experiences and the hard work that they did, especially books like The Hate U Give. If you read The Hate U Give, that's a hard book to read.
Jada:And especially them making a movie out of it, like, those are experiences multiple people go through every day. So not only are you invalid ating the author, you're invalidating those individuals that resonate with those books and say that they can't even have something that expresses their feelings.
Reiel:Mhmm. For Like,
Jada:mind boggling to me. It's crazy.
Reiel:Yeah. And then people, like, excuse their, like, ignorance for, like, well, it doesn't affect me. Okay. Well, I feel like everything is becoming political, and I think, like, it'll come back to you one way or another. Like, my hometown had my hometown library had this big issue of banning a book.
Reiel:It was it wasn't a black literature book. It was called Gender Queer by Maiko Babe. Mhmm. And basically, it was about, like, this person kinda discovering their sexuality and stuff. But then at the same time, they had, like, Colleen Hoover in the library.
Reiel:And they're like, well, Colleen Hoover's okay. But this book isn't okay. It's like, well, why are you, like, being so particular with
Jada:being a specific What's the difference?
Reiel:What's the difference? Right. And I think this person was a person of color as well. So it's like, why are you not being, like, ugly love or, like, other Colleen Hoover books, but then you're kind of targeting, like, representation of people who deserve to be represented? Like Yes.
Reiel:It's like and that's why I'm really grateful. I'm in, James Madison College. It's, like, the public policy college, but I'm learning so much more. And I thought I was, like, fairly educated. I thought I was fairly cultured.
Reiel:But then I got into JMC, and I started, like, really kind of analyzing and digging deeper to, like, Frederick Douglass and W. E. B. Du Bois. And I'm like and I thought I was educated.
Reiel:And I'm, like, being mind boggled by, like, everything I'm learning. Right? So it's just, like, the amount of ignorance people have, and then they excuse themselves. They're like, well, it doesn't matter to me. Like, it doesn't harm me.
Reiel:Well, it will one way
Jada:or another. It will one day, and it probably already does. You just don't know how.
Reiel:You just don't know.
Jada:Like, especially tying back to all of the DI stuff. You fall under that category. You just don't know how or you don't look like the people that it's supposed to help. So, oh, when that goes away, that has nothing to do with me. Yes, it does.
Jada:If you're a woman, if you're a part of any other category identify as that's marginalized or not part of this broader scheme that people find accepted, you get hurt by it. You know? And it's gonna come in any situation. It may not be to the extreme as you would get if you were that and a person of color, but you're gonna be hurt by it. And some of these things are not gonna be easy for you anymore, just like we were talking about out there, where people are like, alright, so how's scholarships about to go?
Jada:Because we're not gonna get the same fight that everybody has, and we're not gonna get the same journey that everybody else is gonna get, because this group of people is gonna get it way easier than we can. And since these scholarships that were tailored to give us the opportunity are not gonna go away, what do we have? What do we have? And, you know, I don't bring politics to All Shave Chocolate a lot, but I definitely think in today, and especially everything that happened just today, it's very important for not only black people, but everybody, just like I said, to keep educating yourself. And I know it's draining and it can be a lot to always look at that stuff, but you have to be in the know, because you don't know what's gonna hurt you and what's not.
Jada:So you always have to be aware, you always gotta have your backup plans, your game plans, just because you don't know. Now, we we don't know if it's a yes or no, so you gotta prepare for both. And I think it's really important, the stuff that you brought today, because, like, it impacts so much on a daily basis, and especially for, you know, if you have any younger people in your family. Like, I talk about my niece and nephew a lot, and, like, I have no idea what in school when they get to, like, fifth and sixth grade, when they really start getting the history in those, you know, language art classes and they're gonna start getting the books that they have to buy, have no idea what that's gonna look like, because it's already changing so much now. They're not even at that stage.
Jada:So to try to look so far in the future and everything that's changing now in days and weeks, what are we going to look like in ten years? You know, when it's their turn to be in those grades, it's their turn to learn this stuff, how are we going to have to teach them at home? And then how are they gonna go in school and learn all this, you know, whatever the curriculum's gonna look like? Like, how is that gonna balance itself out?
Reiel:Yeah. So, my brother is in seventh grade right now. Mhmm. And so, like, he's kind of in that stage where you're learning more about history and stuff. But I kinda, like, beat the game a little bit.
Reiel:I, like, kind of so, basically, I told my brother I was and, like, when he first got into middle school, I was like, hey. Like, so you're gonna be learning some uncomfortable topics, but it's important to be uncomfortable. Yes. And so I kinda wanted to, like, get him a little bit more exposed. So I, like, kind of started we kinda started talking about The Hate U Give, and I kinda want him to start reading that as soon.
Reiel:I, like we've 've had discussions, but I think literature has really helped me in kinda getting him exposed to that. Because, like, literature is kind of like a show not tell notion, which is kind of, like, ironic. But my brother reading the book and seeing, like, a primary account of, like, a black author talking about their experiences in life, you know, which is is really important for him because, you know, there's only so much I can say about other cultures that aren't my own. So by my by having my brother read stuff and kinda talking about him about, hey, this is something you should read or this is something you should, like, kinda look at, it's really, like, helpful for him and me too so, like, we can have discussions about that and what's important and what's, like, important to know about in kind of uncomfortable topics that he should know how to uncomfortable about. Because if you're getting uncomfortable, then that means, like, it's an important topic.
Reiel:It's important. It means something. Yes. So that's why you should know about it, you know? Kind of like because I think a lot of people are kinda don't wanna talk race or politics because it's uncomfortable.
Reiel:It's a scary topic. Like, I don't wanna talk about it. Mhmm. But I think, like, instead of, like, you talking about it, I think you should know about it. And, like, literature's such a good gateway for that.
Jada:Yes. I definitely agree. And, another strong point where you said it's like a show, not tell. And honestly, with the uncomfortable thing, I feel like I've said this to All Shake Tackle before, but like you said, if you're not uncomfortable in some conversations, you're not learning nothing. Or if you're not uncomfortable by something somebody is saying or the experiences they're telling you about their daily life, you're not getting anything from it.
Jada:Like, in this day and age, to learn about all this stuff that's happening, it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable for the people that have to do it. So, for you to be uncomfortable as an outsider, that's your one gateway to try to understand what their shoes are like, because you can understand how uncomfortable it must be to live that way. And it's super amazing that your brother has a sibling like you like that, because I feel like so many people need that person to be that guidance just to be like, Look, I know you're going to want to check out of this conversation, and you're going sit here and be like, well, this isn't my community, you know, these aren't my people. I get I've got to learn about it, but yada yada yada.
Jada:But no, really understand what's being talked about, because it can happen to you but in a different way. You know? It's happening to these people, but something like this could happen to our people. So understand it, learn from it, and then move forward. Because it's also gonna help you go into this world as a good person.
Jada:Know? It's gonna help how you shape to become an adult and how you enter this adult world with all these changing legislatures and these laws being rewritten and put in here. It's going to help you in the long run. So I think that's a really good idea. And yes, definitely how literature is that show, not tell.
Jada:Like, having someone who wrote down their entire accountand I also like books that are kind of like personal diaries of people, or, you know, they kind of make those into books, because I really feel like that's where people's true feelings come out. Because I kind of feel like if you write something down, somebody can't judge you, or you can't really be judged as harsh, versus if like, I'm talking to you and I say something. You're like, actually, I don't think so. As far as the book is out there for the world to see. It's published.
Jada:No matter whose opinion says something, it can't be changed. It can't be rewritten. It can't be edited. So that's all of your accounts onto that book. And I think that's so powerful, to have something like that.
Jada:And when you take that away from, you know, younger kids or even just young adults who don't have the opportunity to experience that, it can make some bad change. I know we're talking about good change, but that can make some bad change, honestly. And just some bad change is just gonna make some bad people. Like, are we notdo you not want to put good people out in the world? It's it's it's a it's a tricky subject for sure.
Reiel:Mhmm. The reason why I kinda started doing this with my brother, well, is because I think he had, like, a requirement to read a book that had, like, a black character in it. And I think I think it was Dog Man that had like one of the side characters as like he was African American. Right? And my brother served reading, he was like, oh, this is like my black character requirement.
Reiel:And I was like, you've gotta
Jada:be kidding
Reiel:me right now.
Jada:You actually have to be joking.
Reiel:And then like, he was like, yeah, My friend's reading Harry Potter. There's, like, this side character named Dean Thomas who's, like, black. And I'm like, guys, like, this is not and, like, Dean doesn't come up, like, ever. He's irrelevant. Yeah.
Reiel:It's like these you can't just read characters that are, like, about characters who are irrelevant because they're not gonna educate you on anything. They're not really representation or just gonna be pushed to the side like always, you know. So I told my brother to read something better other than, you know, some book that has a rando, like, African American side character. Like, come on. Like
Jada:Like, come on. We can do better than that. And, again, in a good point, you give us the representation, but then you give them two lines. And then that's the only time we see him. Like, they don't even they how are you gonna make a character where the characters don't even mention the name?
Jada:Like, you all go to this school, like, it's a school, for example, and then you have this one student, this one black kid, who says, like, four things to the main character, and then twenty two chapters later, they come back. Good does that do? Are we actually trying to fight here? What service? You could have just lumped them in with the other students said this.
Jada:You know how you phrase things to picture in your head, Okay, school, the students are talking. Why give them those four lines and think that's acceptable? I'm outraged. Now people are outraged. You're giving us spare change.
Jada:Like, what?
Reiel:Yeah. For sure.
Jada:And you definitely could give it more than that. Oh, yeah. We talked about a lot. I told y'all last episode to pull out y'all notebooks. Y'all better have it today.
Jada:But, yeah, you got anything anything else you wanna end off with?
Reiel:I think, like, literature in childhood, I think, is what I really wanna emphasize here because, like, I am very grateful for, like, the experiences that I got in childhood of, like, being exposed to certain things. I know I wanna mention this title. I can't end this without saying this title. Brown Girl Dreaming by Jacqueline Woodson. This and, like, it's poetry, and I tend to stay away from poetry.
Reiel:Right? But I read this book and it changed my life because it really talked about, like, the importance of family and identity, which, like, goes and which is specifically deep to, like, African Americans because of the rich history and, like, kind of the main character. I think this was, like, a anecdotal piece too. She was, understanding her family's history and how she can make herself out of that. Mhmm.
Reiel:And that really exposed me. It made me emotional. And I think, like, I remember other classmates were like, I didn't like it. I couldn't relate to it. It wasn't something for you to relate to.
Reiel:I think it was something for you to understand what was happening and kind of, like, try to do something about it. Because I feel like Yeah. People just, like, know something know things or, like, learn things or, like, read things on social media or the news and they kinda just, like, pass by. They're like, oh, this is happening. But I think literature what makes literature so special is that it's so emotional.
Reiel:It kinda hits you in a way that makes you wanna do something. Mhmm. And, like, you establish these connections with the characters. Like, you fall in love with the like, not the character. The author's word choices, their writing style.
Reiel:And I think just reading literature and kind of, like, invoking empathy in people is what is the key to, like, helping make change in the future, like, despite all these, you know, legislature, like, changes and, like, all the executive orders being signed. Like, I think us as a community, we all need to come together with empathy to kind of understand each other and kind of help each other out. And literacy is having literacy and kind of, like, being connected with literature is such an important way to do that.
Jada:I love that. We're ending on that. You couldn't have said that perfectly. I'm over here nodding like, absolutely. I love that.
Jada:And that is how we're gonna end this episode. Alright, y'all. This is a really good episode. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on here.
Jada:I really enjoyed having you. And this has been All Stated Chocolate where
Reiel:Rael.
Jada:And I have brought the sweetest, the hottest black culture to MSU. And remember to stay sweet. Bye. Bye.