Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;16;01 - 00;00;19;09
Aaron
Hey, guys, we got, Jared here. Hey, Jared. Welcome.
00;00;19;14 - 00;00;43;28
Jared
Thank you for having me. It's, I'm super excited to be here. And, honestly, it's kind of the same sentiment Redbeard shared last week. I'm, admiring your guys's podcast from afar and listening every week, and just super honored and humbled to be here. It's an incredible honor. And thank you for having me. It's you guys are creating some amazing content and dropping, a bunch of knowledge way ahead of most people.
00;00;43;28 - 00;00;47;23
Jared
So really, kudos to you for what you're doing. And thank you for having me, man.
00;00;47;25 - 00;01;01;00
Aaron
Yeah, I mean thanks. Thanks. We appreciate it. And, appreciate everything that you've added to the space to Jared. So I'm kind of curious, how are you feeling about that and the NFT space now?
00;01;01;02 - 00;01;23;05
Jared
Well, obviously a huge bias bag bias and then running a platform, I have a bias, but, I honestly couldn't be more bullish. I believe in the tech more now than ever. I think that there's some interesting dialog coming out around, permanence and where stuff is stored on the blockchain. It's something that's like really deep in my mind running a platform.
00;01;23;07 - 00;01;52;00
Jared
But, you know, that's saying it's always darkest before dawn is kind of reminiscent to me. I always go back to, you know, when I interviewed RuPaul on this Google deal, he talked about like, a future state where there's, you know, crypto is going to be the highest or the fastest wealth accumulation in history is his philosophy, history, and how at the top of the expenditure pyramid is, Premier Art, and how culturally, people have collected art that's native to where they accumulated their wealth.
00;01;52;00 - 00;02;12;18
Jared
Or, you know, that's like part of, you know, society in, in sort of like the social boundaries and pushing the boundaries. And I just it makes so much sense to me that we end up here. What I'm what I'm starting to think, though, is just like, I don't know when you guys found it, but I found Bitcoin in like around 2013, 2014.
00;02;12;20 - 00;02;42;00
Jared
And even though it was like obvious there, it took, you know, a little over a decade for institutional adoption and the the NFT art specifically. That's my focus. It feels so obvious to me. But again, I think it's what I'm realizing is my optimism has a shorter duration than probably the rest of society will take it on. But I think that there's something special here, especially seeing some of the highlights from Basel and one of my favorite artists of all time, upon being able to captivate people.
00;02;42;07 - 00;03;10;00
Jared
His work is great. It's incredible. I just wish I had more liquidity by that big piece. I don't have a wall for it, but I thought, like, what he what he does in general with algorithms is incredible. His ability to bend code to his will is just been absolutely amazing. And it's I think it's just a matter of time before things like that start to come out and having things, a space like Basel, where others are able to see it and then they start asking the question of like, why is this important?
00;03;10;00 - 00;03;16;07
Jared
Or why am I drawn to it? I think it's a great long term strategy. It's just, you know, it's not that immediate. Our bags go up right now.
00;03;16;09 - 00;03;23;28
Aaron
Yeah, completely. I mean, how what do you think about the move to, like, smaller set sizes? And all that jazz?
00;03;24;00 - 00;03;47;06
Jared
I think it's, you know, full disclosure, we're going to have a couple releases coming out in the next month that are smaller sizes, and they've been curated down based on that. I think that's just a market requirement right now. You're seeing kind of like these two extremes, smaller sizes or kind of like what Nuclear Samurai did, which is like, you know, 10,000 piece low costs, you know, high participation.
00;03;47;11 - 00;04;08;02
Jared
But yeah, I think these smaller sets are unfortunately what the market demands. And I say unfortunately not because I don't like the sets, but just because I love long form generative art specifically and being able to facilitate, you know, the corners of the algorithm. I mean, the beauty of the algorithmic, generative art, in my opinion, is, you know, the corners.
00;04;08;02 - 00;04;25;13
Jared
Right? And the stuff that wasn't intended but ends up coming out. And the preeminent example of this is the goose wringer, right? Never did Dimitri say, I want this to look like a goose. It just kind of came out in the community, rallied around it, and those sort of, corners of algorithms just are really, really exciting to me.
00;04;25;13 - 00;04;30;15
Jared
And I think you kind of need larger algorithms in order for, for those possibilities to, to show themselves.
00;04;30;17 - 00;04;51;06
Aaron
Yeah, that's kind of my, my sense. Right. Because that that's where it's like the infinite canvas parts of generative art that I think are super interesting. Right. And kind of the snapshot that you get when assets generated, which I, I think some of that like randomness and, and emergence really gives, gives at least to me, something kind of interesting about that.
00;04;51;09 - 00;05;03;16
Aaron
Like I, I love the fact that those algorithms can I guess there's maybe some, some limitation on it, but just generate so, so many more unique works. I just think that that's always been like super cool.
00;05;03;22 - 00;05;27;15
Jared
And I'm really interested to see, you know, again on a long enough timeline, what sort of, momentum it builds when you have things like the, the god mode for Gans. You know, I think when Tyler was releasing Kql, he talked about God mode being, you know, 1 in 1000 like sets, like, you know, for lenses or a thousand pieces like, so that was only statistically supposed to happen in one of every thousand sets that ran.
00;05;27;21 - 00;05;47;04
Jared
And it kind of begs that question of like, holy shit. Like, what else did we did we not see, you know, that was the algo. And I think that when you have more God mode for dancers, you know, the Starry Night Meridian, you know, the even to some degree, you know, obviously my FPS is a squiggle. So I'm a huge, huge, fan of of chroma squiggles.
00;05;47;07 - 00;06;09;15
Jared
But there is a month where, like, only one full spectrum or perfect spectrum board came out. You know, what is the the hyper pipes? Only three of them like these sort of things like only emerging these larger sets and people start to rally around them. So I'm excited to see how people rally around some of the nuanced pieces as the as generative art specifically like grows.
00;06;09;15 - 00;06;13;23
Jared
And there's more opportunity for these these like brilliant outliers to emerge.
00;06;14;01 - 00;06;26;24
Aaron
Yeah. I wonder, you know, if and when that becomes kind of the norm again. It feels like, you know, I don't know if you've been following the trading card game type projects. Jared. But, that's been getting.
00;06;26;24 - 00;06;28;21
Jared
I'm obsessed. Obsessed.
00;06;28;21 - 00;07;05;06
Aaron
So that's interesting. Yeah. I mean, for me, I don't that that's not particularly my wheelhouse, baby. Kind of curious what you see there. And it's interesting because I feel like to a certain degree, it's almost like proving out some of the thesis, or at least around some of those, like larger, more like, identity based sets, in the sense that, you know, the theory was you released it on the internet, you, you find kind of product market fit with an early community like that early community kind of roughly solidifies that helps, build up the, the kind of IP and brand recognition related to it.
00;07;05;08 - 00;07;37;10
Aaron
And now you're seeing some of those, sets, break into more of the mainstream. Right? Like they're appearing, like in context. Not originally, thought they're appearing, you know, in physical form as cards and stores. You know, more and more people can kind of interact with them, and there's like kind of thesis that like, hello Kitty or, you know, like Pokemon or like large IP set would come out of the internet via like these large communities.
00;07;37;12 - 00;07;43;14
Aaron
I think there's least an argument that that's beginning to kind of play out. Yeah. What what's, drawing you to them.
00;07;43;16 - 00;08;06;26
Jared
So it's mainly the full disclosure. Like I collected baseball cards as a little kid. So it was kind of like in my, my DNA. But, in full disclosure, I'm not necessarily collecting, right now. My kids did have an interest in Pokemon, so I started flirting with the, that TCG specifically. But, you know, it's largely for for my kids benefit.
00;08;06;28 - 00;08;42;19
Jared
But like, the reason why I say I'm obsessed with it is like, we actually released on NFT a release with Sigma X, where it was editions and it was a blind mint, and you had the the opportunity to pull a limited edition and, you know, one of ones with an equal chance of minting. And that concept actually stemmed from opening packs with my kids, Pokemon, because there's that there's always that gambler's premium, the, the unknown of like when you, you know, when you hit the mint button or specifically open a pack of Pokemon like what is in there and the amount of optimism you have going into it, you know, like of infinite
00;08;42;19 - 00;09;10;28
Jared
possibilities. So I, I like that dynamic. I think that the things that are you hit on one that's like really, really fascinating to me and kind of Gary Vee, who's been pioneering it with his friends where he took, you know, NFTs and, collection of friends. And he's not monetized it. That's the wrong word. He has created, an ecosystem beyond just the NFTs through different cards.
00;09;11;00 - 00;09;33;17
Jared
And it's not a sorry TCG, but it's collectibles, right? He's big into collectibles and being able to see how he's done it and done it in a very intentional and strategic fashion has been really encouraging to me. You know, there's the first set and then it was like the premier set, and there's collectibles, there's rarities, and being able to, lean into that has been something that's been really interesting to me.
00;09;33;17 - 00;09;56;04
Jared
And then I think just recently saw pugs introduce their own collectible set. And then I'd be remiss if we didn't at least touch on peoples. Right. And they're like, so there's this, like really interesting concept of like baked in value. And I know you touched on it last week with Redbeard where, you know, you give an entry point that is, you know, below market opportunity or at least has a lot of upside potential.
00;09;56;04 - 00;10;32;25
Jared
And when people are collecting users, yes, there's some speculation. But, you know, there's a high level of enthusiasm because it's something that could bring value. And at least, you know, when you the it's that emotional connection that I'm really fascinated with right now. There's pride when somebody is posting about, you know, when they got the the Red Beard Cheeto version or a rare version of that or it's that level of possibility and sharing in, the community rallying around certain things that the, the collectibles market, I think is renewing attention to some digital assets.
00;10;32;28 - 00;10;57;25
Aaron
Yeah. I mean, the, the like the gambling aspects. I'm not that particularly interested in it. To me. I think it's it's almost like a corollary to what we're seeing in traditional finance, right, where they're pinning more objects, items onto a blockchain. And then that's like this big movement towards tokenized securities and other real world assets. It just feels like in this case, there's, another use case, right?
00;10;57;25 - 00;11;24;03
Aaron
Which is taking a collectible, you know, something that a whole bunch of people like, like that's either something they did as a kid, they continued, like, through their adult life. It's vaulting them. And if it's like a platform, like, like courtyard, maybe there's some others that do the same thing. And then it's representing that as a token and enabling it to get traded 24 seven, with some, you know, some value kind of sitting behind it.
00;11;24;05 - 00;11;41;15
Aaron
And you would think that, we'd see more and more of this, like over time, like, you know, tokenizing financial instruments, is super interesting and clearly something that's growing in, the broader space, but it would should be easier to kind of tokenize all these other types of assets.
00;11;41;21 - 00;11;58;17
Jared
Well, the the tokenization of cards is really fascinating to me because I think that you talk to or kind of hit on it, which is like what I would dub the the ease or the remove of friction. Right? Like in a traditional sense, you have to go get something graded. It takes duration to come back. If you want to sell it, you have to sit on eBay.
00;11;58;19 - 00;12;22;12
Jared
But some of these tokenized platforms like have automatic, you know, valuations and, you know, buyback numbers. And because they're tokenized on the blockchain like they're the the the friction associated with like, you know, moving an asset or, you know, having to go to UPS to ship something or wherever. It's no instantaneous. I think that that is a case study for the blockchain.
00;12;22;12 - 00;12;39;22
Jared
That's like really fascinating to me because we've always talked about like the ease of, transaction, the freedom to transact. Right. Like it's a big meme. And these real world assets that are being tokenized and being traded freely is a really, really fascinating reduction of friction that I'm, I'm, I'm fascinated by.
00;12;39;24 - 00;12;58;15
Aaron
Yeah. It's like that. It's a little bit like what we sell. It's, you know, like stablecoins, right. Like you can tokenize a dollar. It's kind of warehoused by a circle or I guess maybe by by tether. There's always been questions related to that. It is kind of like a, like if you take a step up like, a similar type of mechanic, right.
00;12;58;20 - 00;13;22;17
Aaron
Like I guess with like the clip, it's best to understand it. These like, collector compacts and NFTs mapped to a specific physical card. Right. It's graded by the third party appraiser, PSA. And then it's sitting in some vault, I guess Montana. And so if you hold the NFT, sell it instantly or ship the actual card to the the house, you can you can kind of do that now, which is which is pretty interesting.
00;13;22;17 - 00;13;39;04
Aaron
So, we couldn't do that before, right? Like with NFTs, you like, if you wanted to buy the physical painting, you could write and maybe you could get a chip to you. But it was a pretty cumbersome process. It's almost better to kind of have like a centralized vault that kind of handles that.
00;13;39;06 - 00;13;59;27
Jared
You weren't exactly where I was going. So I think that this then scales to to art right there doesn't have to sit in a Swiss, free port or, you know, you want to have these, like, huge insurance, for, for transport and protection. I mean, the ability to, to collect art, the barrier to entry and the amount of friction has been greatly reduced.
00;13;59;27 - 00;15;13;03
Jared
And I think that that's something that plays out really well long term.
00;15;13;05 - 00;15;28;13
Jared
There I think that there's multiple facets to it. I think that there's there's obviously you're highly speculative, like if you can go buy something, but I'm gonna make a number up for 40 bucks and sell it for 120 just by going to your local Target or Walmart. I think that there's like, a short term nature of it.
00;15;28;16 - 00;15;47;21
Jared
I think that there's also people who are interested in it long term. You know, there's this like there's a really interesting social component that I don't think has been here recently. And it's, this concept of rip and ship and what they do is like people literally pay others on a live stream to open packs for them, and they pay a premium for it, which is wild.
00;15;47;24 - 00;16;13;04
Jared
And so you're seeing this, phenomena happen and there's a depletion of quote unquote, unopened stuff. And, so there's like this concept of like a depleting supply. And by doing that, because people want this, like, social clout in a streaming fashion, it's now driving up the, the, the price of, of unopened stuff, generally speaking. Right. Like, obviously there's nuance to it.
00;16;13;06 - 00;16;46;13
Jared
And, and so there's this phenomenon of wanting the social club publicly, but then the, the product that they're opening going up also concurrently because there's, a diminishing supply associated with it. And then I think the other thing is you talked about the size of, the, the the product. There's the thing that I'm really fascinated with is, you know, I've done a couple studies on this is like, and this is where I think it can kind of translate into art is there's consensus around or taste about being smaller.
00;16;46;13 - 00;17;10;14
Jared
Right. If you have, like a rare Michael Jordan, like a Michael Jordan rookie card, for example, in perfect condition, I forget the market value, but let's just say it's roughly $500,000. That's an insane concentration of wealth. And I think there's a really interesting value proposition there for that concentration. So you don't have to like, carry around gold coins or, you know, a duffle bag full of cash that people are connecting to.
00;17;10;16 - 00;17;33;21
Jared
Obviously, like being in the digital asset realm would mean you could put it on a ledger and it's even more compact. But people see it as like this really interesting concentration of wealth. And there's like provable scarcity through these third party graders that, you know, if there's only I forget, there's like three, 400 of these Michael Jordan's all you need is 450 people to want one.
00;17;33;21 - 00;17;53;28
Jared
And the price starts going up, exponentially. So I think that it's, it's it's some of it's speculative, I think, on the lower end. And then I think, you know, the TCG space in particular has had outpaced returns. So it's garnering the attention of people who are maybe looking for investments and longer term plays.
00;17;54;05 - 00;18;15;08
Aaron
Yeah, I, I'm skeptical. I think like, my sense is there's still lots of folks that want something that's more gambling. And I, I wonder if this gets bigger and bigger if, if some of these platforms don't run into some issues there. But I do think like the underlying mechanic is like interesting, right? Like the NFT with these, in this context, they're not really the asset.
00;18;15;08 - 00;18;35;13
Aaron
It's kind of like the receipt. Like people are really trading at the core, like the underlying, you know, just like if you buy Usdc, you're really getting a receipt to a dollar. You're not getting like the actual dollar. And that setup seemed to work really well and found like, you know, areas that, dollars were demanded that otherwise weren't served.
00;18;35;13 - 00;19;01;04
Aaron
And I think that's kind of the same thing here. Like by reducing that friction, like you're building, like structurally, hopefully like a more sound market. That market may have like some, some speculative elements to it. I mean, it's like, their get their gaming assets at the core. But I wonder if over time that, that that mechanic kind of bleeds out to a whole bunch of different things, like, it's not that dissimilar if you wanted to like tokenized real real estate to do this type of stuff too, right?
00;19;01;04 - 00;19;24;13
Aaron
You could warehouse and I don't know exactly how you do that or, you know, somehow, set up like something like title to a deed or, or the underlying paperwork that's necessary to prove ownership over land, like, that's in a more centralized place that, where checks and then kind of provided and then now all of a sudden you have like a more liquid market around a harder asset.
00;19;24;19 - 00;19;48;16
Aaron
It's not necessarily like a security. And I think that there's probably other pockets where we're going to see, like NFTs use this as almost like that receipt. I'm not 100% sure what that looks like. And I'm I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. But I thought that that's interesting. Like, to me, I think it's one it could be one of these examples and I'm not fully there yet, but it could be one of these examples where the mechanics here just look like a toy to start.
00;19;48;16 - 00;20;13;29
Aaron
But they're they're pointing towards something like healthy and a lot broader. I don't know if you guys saw that post by it's by seems like, Dean Engelmann do you know that guy? He's been an. Yeah, yeah. And he he actually wrote a really nice, like, long form X Twitter article, just noting that, like, crypto is kind of in it's like, like late 1920s, period.
00;20;14;06 - 00;20;39;00
Aaron
Like if you looked at securities in the 1920s and before, like, that 30, 33 and 34 securities acts like stocks were just essentially gambling, like there was no, require disclosure. There was a lot of, like, market issues like rate pools or bucket shops. Then margins at the time, like financial markets were primarily in bonds because you can value a stock like people didn't know how to do that.
00;20;39;03 - 00;21;06;20
Aaron
And then the crash came and two things happened after that. You got this legal regime that made company financials real and enforceable. And then you also got a method to use those numbers. It was a book, I think, at the time by two authors, Graham and Dodd, called Security Analysis. And then from that, like we got investing and it took like a couple decades for it to take root and really blossomed in, I guess, the, 70s and 80s into what it is today.
00;21;06;21 - 00;21;31;14
Aaron
But I wonder if we're kind of going through a similar process right now where, you know, post FDX like that was kind of like the big crash. And that was our moment in like the late 1920s where a lot of this, like, bad activity hopefully is beginning to get whittled out or organically kind of dissolved as like the trader class moves onto stocks and, and other AI stocks and all this other stuff.
00;21;31;16 - 00;21;53;02
Aaron
And then we're seeing, you know, kind of a new model, which is a little bit more based on utility, like the NFT receipt or real world assets or, you know, tokenized dollars. And that will kind of lead to healthy growth. And then I think if that is the case, Jared. And pretty like, it feels like the art pieces are, are going to be a big a big part of that too, right?
00;21;53;08 - 00;24;08;09
Aaron
Like sitting underneath, like all these things, whether it's like generative art, I mean, it really is like, you know, sitting behind an algorithm that we can point to and look at. Right. Like that's your way to kind of represent value in that algorithm or an IP set in the case of something that's internet native, like Cryptopunks or some of the other sets, you have sets of people like maybe, maybe like the utilities starting to happen, which would be great.
00;24;08;11 - 00;24;31;20
Aaron
Yeah, I think so. I just I tried I was just running a couple queries to kind of see what the, the ratio is between speculation and utility. It's probably about 70% speculation and 30% utility. The like number is there's about 4.5 million pack opens. That's what Jared was talking about. But there's been 50,000 redemptions. So there is like real utility.
00;24;31;22 - 00;24;44;29
Aaron
But it's there definitely still is probably too much speculation in it. I guess the the positive signal would be that 30% real utility, if that's right. It's the highest it's ever been for like a crypto category.
00;24;45;02 - 00;25;04;15
Jared
Maybe this is sacrilegious to say publicly, but, you know, it kind of reminds me a little bit of like the with the tokenized stuff, a little bit like Topshot where there's this gambler's premium, you get like the blind and I look, I think some people will get hurt, you know, please use all of your, like, don't don't overextend yourself.
00;25;04;17 - 00;25;24;18
Jared
But I think that, you know, it is easy to, to hate NFTs, but because some of this is digital and once people realize there's blockchain rules behind it, I think it just opens up the question as to like, why, why, why is this a more efficient system? Why is it important? Why am I drawn to this? And kind of, again, similar to Topshot, I feel like it's going to be the red pill for some.
00;25;24;18 - 00;26;07;16
Jared
Obviously it's not going to be in the grand scheme of things for everybody, but my hope is that it at least, prompts the question of why is this important and why should I even be caring about it?
00;26;07;18 - 00;26;25;06
Aaron
Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, the bear case would be just like a redux. That meme coins, which I think I think with the, the yeah, the benefit with the benefit of hindsight. I know lots of folks were excited about that. I personally wasn't, but it didn't it didn't really do much to move the space forward. It kind of was like almost like a let a last gasp.
00;26;25;06 - 00;26;44;08
Aaron
Right? Like, a bunch of folks, got got hurt by them and then for at least lost money. I don't know if it did anything. There's not really like a lasting infrastructure that was built or like new technology. I do think like the like the spread of the like vault to receipt model, which is really what like circle and tether kind of pioneered.
00;26;44;08 - 00;27;02;02
Aaron
It just feels like that's kind of slowly happening in the background. And hopefully there's more utility here. Like if you are like a super, a super, you know, super Pokemon player or you know, this is kind of something that you do, it probably is like a lot more efficient for you to to play around in this, in this space.
00;27;02;05 - 00;27;13;07
Aaron
I can get that receipt and know that you can redeem it and hopefully, like have a more mature market around that because it it is scattered, but it is and reasonably sophisticated and big market.
00;27;13;12 - 00;27;31;14
Jared
And I think the thing that differentiates this from the, the meme coins is that physical redemption, kind of like what you were talking about for a Usdc, there's a token or something that's backing it. You know, it's I think that there is something that I feel like I'm defending the TCG stuff because I'm actually just more fascinated with the social side of it.
00;27;31;14 - 00;27;51;01
Jared
But there is a realm of collectors who are, like, genuinely interested in the IP and the physical product behind it, rather than just the pure speculative nature of things. So I'm a little bit more optimistic on this versus meme coins. I'm like, you know, I was a little bit skeptical. Never, never about any just cause I didn't see the longevity behind it.
00;27;51;06 - 00;29;11;20
Jared
But the TCG seems to have like some, some that I do agree that there's largely some speculators in the mix, but I also think that there's a core group of people who have some long term intent on it, and that differentiation is something that's fascinating me.
00;29;11;22 - 00;29;35;10
Aaron
And maybe that's because there's some utility behind it. Maybe it's not enough, but maybe I mean, maybe that's like that puzzle that, you know, we're all kind of what's that phrase when we're all blind, like touching to kind of understand what an elephant is. And maybe, maybe that's what's happening. People are realizing to build like sustainable markets, and use all the powerful things that blockchains and tokens can do.
00;29;35;10 - 00;30;09;04
Aaron
You need to like, have, you know, some percentage of utility related to it because, like, you know, all markets have some speculation. I mean, look at the AI stocks, right. Like that. Yeah, but but there needs to be it's probably like a ratio that needs to be in place for it to like healthily grow. And you know, if you looked at like the 20 to 21 like outside of Prime, like some of the fine art pieces, which is things that I think everybody here was interested in, there wasn't there wasn't the same level of utility kind of sitting behind, you know, but like digital art's a big category and a growing category in the traditional,
00;30;09;04 - 00;30;27;01
Aaron
in the traditional art market. So I think there was utility there. And we've seen it be used by some amazing artists as a, as a platform to kind of grow. Like Jared, you mentioned people before, but that's a great example. Or some of the other artists that were mentioned earlier. But I think for outside of that, the utility was really low.
00;30;27;01 - 00;30;47;04
Aaron
Right. And that's probably why it was not sustainable or even like you mentioned, flow before. Jared. Right. Like that was actually pretty cool. Like it was I thought it was interesting to have collectibles that were, you know, moments. Right? Like, and to make them animated and not run into, like the grading issues related to it. Like there was some real like structural advantages to like Top Shot and some of the stuff that was on file.
00;30;47;07 - 00;31;04;27
Jared
I totally agree, I'd love to see some of those come back, and be able to be recorded on the blockchain, because I think that there's a the permanence of the blockchain is something I just keep coming back to. Like, it's so obvious to me from a provenance and a verifiability that the blockchain is the most efficient path forward.
00;31;04;29 - 00;31;25;08
Jared
And having these assets on the blockchain is just a no brainer to me. In kind of like what you talked to, the article you shared about the stock market in the 20s is the equivalent to me of, you know, like Bitcoin in 2013, 2014. Like there's there's a speculative nature, but like there's some underlying and fundamental truths that are undeniable.
00;31;25;08 - 00;31;42;12
Jared
And like as we grow and refine some of the mechanisms and the I don't call it regulation, but the rules of engagement around it, it becomes, you know, a more trustworthy and clear value proposition to those who maybe aren't in the space and becomes an attractive entry point. Yeah.
00;31;42;12 - 00;32;06;12
Aaron
And I think regulation is always it's always, double edged sword, but, you know, you don't want to. I feel like crypto has been almost like a snake eating itself for the past couple of years. And I think having rules in place is helpful. You know, you kind of know it's kind of like, sports, right? Like you need a ref and you need you need to know the rules of the game, and then you can, you know, play the World Cup writer or NBA basketball.
00;32;06;12 - 00;32;29;14
Aaron
Right? And then all the positive benefits that kind of come from that. Yeah. I really because there are like, clear rules. Right. And somebody's calling balls and strikes or calling fouls or penalties, whatever the sport is. I think we're, I think we're we're moving towards that era. You know, maybe it's, maybe it's a good thing that some of the, the traders who obviously liked crypto have found like another trade, right?
00;32;29;14 - 00;33;01;06
Aaron
Which is this AI trade, just so we can have the time to kind of, shore up the foundation. It seems like, you know, at least in the States like that clarity bill is going to at least get voted on. So, I think that's what's been reported, which is great. So hopefully that that goes through and people realize that we're going to need, you know, the next generation of finance to be a bit more, more digital and, and not paper based, and also begin to, like, absorb all these other categories, like, like possibly collectibles and everything in.
00;33;01;06 - 00;33;38;10
Jared
Between where, you know, pre brought up the, the concept of real estate being on, you know, real world assets and real estate being on blockchain. And I think that, you know, it's maybe a good transition into the AI conversation is I think while it's maybe struggled in the past to get there, I think with like AI in the advent of agents being able to like seamlessly transact and push the stuff through the system, we're on the precipice of, I think, AI's utilization of the blockchain in a very prolific, even at least for me, being a little simpleton than I am of trying to understand like what the the degree of impact will be
00;33;38;14 - 00;33;52;20
Jared
when these agents are able to transact seamlessly, efficiently and near flawlessly. I think we're, you know, the two have a synergistic feel that that is, you know, it feels very special to me, at least.
00;33;52;23 - 00;34;23;26
Aaron
I think so. I mean, you just if you've built, like AI systems or like these Advantech systems, you just realize, like how fast they move, like first and foremost. And the speed, I think is going to mean that they're going to choose fast things for commerce to the extent that they're doing that on your behalf or, you know, organizations behalf or maybe over time their on behalf, it just it feels it feels likely that they'll use like a more open system, like a blockchain as opposed to something more closed, like a like, like stripe.
00;34;23;26 - 00;34;47;06
Aaron
I think that's why you see some of the big, you know, payment companies like stripe, kind of even themselves moving to like more of an open model with tempo. So but I think it's still like a bit of a slog to get there. I think I saw like Brian Armstrong tweet some, some updated numbers on like the transaction volumes and one of the blockchain based, payment standards called zero two.
00;34;47;06 - 00;35;01;01
Aaron
And I think it is kicking up again that I, I don't know what the time horizon is there. Like that could be that could be like what you just said. We're talking about it now like it was 2016 when we were talking about tokenized real world assets. It's a little bit hard to kind of figure that out the.
00;35;01;01 - 00;35;35;15
Jared
Way I've equated it. At least. You know, I appreciate any sort of feedback or perspective you have on this is because I've been playing around with OpenCL and Hermes, recently on a, on a mac mini. So I'm keeping all my my stuff separate. But the agent systems to me and fumbling around there is kind of the equivalent to me of playing with like my ether wallet back in 2015, 2016, where it's a little bit clunky, but like once you figure it out and you can like power through it, you start to see the, the, the nature of potential associated with it.
00;35;35;15 - 00;35;38;19
Jared
Does that resonate at all in your guys's. Yeah.
00;35;38;26 - 00;35;55;10
Aaron
It feels rough. Jared. Like, I actually, I think Hermes I mean, it's cool to see it come out of like a crypto community. It feels it feels just, like, really rough, almost like early web one stuff to me. Just because I'm such an old dog. Like, maybe it's like Mozilla. My sense is that's going to get really polished up pretty tight.
00;35;55;10 - 00;36;16;28
Aaron
But there's there's definitely you're seeing kind of the pieces of like the AI stack, like starting to come together. Right? Which is like you're going to want like some software harness of some sort, like a memory layer, like the ability to do these like longer running tasks, do like cron jobs or like have like something listening periodically to, to check to do something.
00;36;16;28 - 00;36;36;10
Aaron
And like with those basic primitives, I think you'll be able to build like a whole bunch of different things, like one of the, the big things that people were either like debating or kind of like in some instances, kind of making fun of it is like inside of anthropic this week they turn it into like a slack bot where they're not even opening up an app anymore to like, program.
00;36;36;10 - 00;37;01;06
Aaron
They're just in, you know, slack, slack channels beginning to like, build stuff together, which I do think is kind of interesting. I know people are kind of, pushing back or making fun of that a little bit. But I don't know. I do think it's interesting that, like, that piece is almost getting abstracted away, and I think it can get abstracted away because you have like, these harnesses and these other layers that are, that are getting, hard, you know, hardened and hardened, like every week.
00;37;01;12 - 00;38;35;15
Jared
I think, like when you start to play at those boundaries, it's like you start to I think for me it's like setting up for, you know, what the eventual when this thing hits scale, being able to have kind of like that muscle memory of kind of like struggling through it right here, in my opinion, is going to set people up or entities up for positioning themselves properly in the future.
00;38;35;18 - 00;38;51;16
Aaron
Yeah, I think the advantage to being like and playing around with it, though, is it's a little bit like understanding how computer works. I think if you have really deep knowledge with how a computer works, like a you're able to eke out more stuff from it and or know where it's going to go. And so that's, that's the only plug for that.
00;38;51;19 - 00;39;11;18
Aaron
But I think you're right. Like it will get hardened and like easier to use like my critique. And there's not there's some stuff to critique with anthropic, but you know, on balance not not that much because they've done such a great job building the models is just like the product itself is, is, it's still way too hard to use.
00;39;11;20 - 00;39;35;26
Aaron
Like it's got to get simplified down. It's got to get easy enough that anybody, regardless of, like, their background, can just, you know, open it up and use it in a couple minutes. But I think that that that's coming. Right. Like that's going to be like the quote unquote app layer, that's being built, you know, on top of this second emerging stack, like the AI stuff, just like another computing stack, just like crypto in many ways is like another computing stack.
00;39;36;00 - 00;39;42;09
Aaron
Yeah.
00;39;42;12 - 00;39;57;23
Jared
Yeah. For me, it's like I, you know, I think that once you've kind of exited the early adopter phase and you're going in towards mass adoption, the litmus test I use is like, could my grandma do this? And I have to be honest, like without the the use of ChatGPT guide me through setting up OpenCL, I couldn't have done it.
00;39;57;23 - 00;40;22;03
Jared
So to Aaron's point, we're very far away from from mass adoption. But the thing that's very encouraging to me is I'm seeing degrees of innovation, whether it's like, you know, agent tech innovation or people doing it, as part of open source or even behind closed gates at, OpenAI and anthropic, the level of innovation is going at a speed that I've seen that I have never seen before.
00;40;22;05 - 00;40;25;16
Jared
It's yeah, it's incredible. As an observer.
00;40;25;18 - 00;40;48;10
Aaron
We were talking about it a little bit internally, Jared. And I think there's like seven tech curves that are happening right now, like at the same time. So one is obviously like AI and like all the new models, we got a big, policy like pronouncement from the administration about quantum, which purportedly like cities like like Chicago and some other places want to really be known for it.
00;40;48;10 - 00;41;12;00
Aaron
I think there's been a fair amount of, really great innovation coming out of Europe when it comes to like, quantum computing. So that's like a whole new channel. You've got all the like, life sciences longevity and, health related innovations, which really seem to be kicking up. You also have robotics, which it begins to we're really beginning to see that, like emerge and move.
00;41;12;00 - 00;41;33;02
Aaron
And that's kind of related, I think, to the advancements in AI. I think there is a lot going on with kind of like virtual worlds and world models and kind of like new media that's going to come out of that. You know, that's the stuff like Google Genie or Google's, Genie product or DeepMind's Genie product. I forgot which unit that came kind of came out of that.
00;41;33;02 - 00;41;57;18
Aaron
I think there's a lot there that doesn't get as much attention as people think. And there was one more, I think that maybe all of them, but it's a lot, right? I don't remember, at least in my lifetime there being like multiple and then defense. Right. There's definitely like a lot to more defense. Right. There's a lot of, people that are trying to reimagine kind of what it looks to kind of like secure your borders or to secure a population.
00;41;57;18 - 00;42;09;19
Aaron
And then the last one is space, right? With obviously cyber space, you know, go and go now to crazy valuations. But the, the space innovation feels real. Which is not something I would have thought even a couple of years ago.
00;42;09;21 - 00;42;15;29
Pri
Did you mention the health care innovation to that's happening? Sorry. I don't know if you've if you said that, but I feel like that's.
00;42;16;05 - 00;42;20;26
Jared
That's actually when I wanted to double click on because I think that that one is the most intriguing to me.
00;42;20;28 - 00;42;24;13
Aaron
Means probably the what's health is wealth, right. It's probably one of the most important ones.
00;42;24;18 - 00;42;45;09
Jared
Well, for me, it's, you know, being a little bit older and starting a family of. So I started to realize that, like, health is a priority. I forget who said it, but there was, there's this new podcast about, you know, in the past, it was like, how long can you extend your life? And now it's like, how long can you go before the, the, the solution to your health issue is solved?
00;42;45;11 - 00;43;06;01
Jared
And it's it's, it's a really interesting concept to me because there the health space is being able to aggregate data and truths at a expedited rate in the. I won't say who, but there's somebody in the space who's a professor at a very prestigious, university. And he was telling me about how he's using, AI for doing a lot of his research.
00;43;06;01 - 00;43;22;21
Jared
So he'll literally, like, chat with the AI on a topic and we'll go do all the research, pull all the pertinent research, and then he writes a paper and something that would have taken 2 or 3 weeks of, of, of paper, you know, academic paper research and reading is done in, in the matter of, a fraction of the time.
00;43;22;23 - 00;43;49;20
Aaron
Yeah. I agree with you. Like, I find that, but you were mentioning before, like the learning that if you really are paying attention when you're using these AI systems, like the stuff that you can just get, like, walked through. And if you're reading it like, understand, like how to do it, I just find that, like, magical. That's why I'm always like, surprised when people are like, oh, I have like LM psychosis and all these other bits because I feel like these systems really can teach you a ton if you kind of put it into more of like a learning curiosity mode.
00;43;49;27 - 00;44;07;23
Aaron
Like, I just think that's magical. Like, yeah, like something like open. Open cloud, like pretty technical system. But the fact that you were even able to do it, and I bet you learned a couple things along the way, like, that's amazing to me. Or like, a professor could do that, learn something new about and, you know, adjacent fields so that they can discover something new.
00;44;07;29 - 00;44;09;06
Aaron
That's super cool to me.
00;44;09;11 - 00;44;27;02
Jared
Yeah. And I think that what what I'm saying is it empowers the individual. If you're usually willing to utilize the, the tool and, and lean into the challenge and not just get frustrated at at some stuff and, and everybody who, his mother in law was experiencing some health issues in his life. So fasting with the health aspect of it, doctors couldn't figure it out.
00;44;27;02 - 00;44;48;06
Jared
And through the use of like ChatGPT, he was able to pinpoint it down to two specific types of, cancer and proactively tested for it. And it arguably could have saved her life because they were more proactive with like the discovery of it just based off of using ChatGPT for symptoms. And that's sort of like empowerment to the average individual.
00;44;48;10 - 00;45;05;19
Jared
You know, obviously it's like you comes with like two sides right on one side. You know, everybody's gonna pretend to be a doctor now or has the potential to. And then on the flip side, there's the positive spin on it, which is like, we can get to the right solution faster and not be reliant on the sort of constraints that we're accustomed to.
00;45;05;21 - 00;45;09;08
Jared
And that sort of green grass, that green field is exciting to me.
00;45;09;14 - 00;45;27;14
Aaron
Yeah. And I think it's like one way to view, like, everybody can pretend to be a doctor or like medical literacy or legal literacy, right? Or technical literacy is just going up across the board. And, you know, now we can understand and avoid issues that we otherwise would have. It's funny that you kind of, you know, mention this empowering thing.
00;45;27;14 - 00;45;39;09
Aaron
I don't know if you guys saw this. I saw it yesterday that like saw SoftBank just put out like its 46th annual general meeting of shareholders deck. It's like a 50 page behemoth.
00;45;39;11 - 00;45;41;25
Pri
And it's just a picture book. It's amazing.
00;45;41;28 - 00;46;04;29
Aaron
Yeah it's pretty it's pretty pretty amazing in a lot of different ways. But you know if you haven't read it I think it's where it's kind of like, taking a look at it. You know, the, you know, SoftBank's did an amazing job on the investing side, taking like, big bets that at the time were kind of not not not obvious, like a little contrarian, with a lot of capital, you know?
00;46;04;29 - 00;46;27;14
Aaron
And so 16 years ago, they were really excited about what they called bringing brain computer to life, which is pretty much like AI, right? And so they invested heavily in like ARM, and they invested heavily in like, you know, the, the, you know, what they call the brain computers. I like the hyperscalers, like, open up an AI and, and some other, some other stuff.
00;46;27;21 - 00;46;55;10
Aaron
But they are kind of framing out now is that over the next 30 years, it's really going to be about physical intelligence. And then, you know, getting to like superhuman intelligence like ACI or AGI, people, you know, argue on the definition so that but the core reason why they're excited about it is this vision of having every person having a thousand agents working for them, which extends our human capability, where you know, every individual has a teacher, right?
00;46;55;11 - 00;47;20;29
Aaron
We get customized learning, and potentially even like something that could nurture you. You get like a deep researcher and an engineer, which gives you amplified powers to think and create, which is pretty cool. And then a doctor, right. Like each individual is going to get customized medicine to which hopefully will like deliver the best care. So you can, you know, spend more time with your family or make sure that your life, life here is, is kind of, more optimized.
00;47;20;29 - 00;47;45;19
Aaron
Right. And then at the same time, like once we put intelligence in robotics, right, we can make more things that are useful, right, which hopefully make things better. And then also, you know, put these things into high risk work like that could be outer space or, you know, our oceans or, you know, fighting forest fires and everything like that, you know, helping people from physical disasters, solving labor shortages to the extent that they exist.
00;47;45;19 - 00;47;59;29
Aaron
Right. Like you can see a lot of like positive visions for this, which I think are pretty cool. And Sam and so, definitely worth a with a skim through if you haven't read it yet. I don't know, pretty you take a look through it. I feel like you may have.
00;48;00;03 - 00;48;17;09
Pri
I did yeah, it was awesome. I was like, super into it. And like, this is the way that all communication is likely to to be just huge images with captions underneath. It just means it was just it was just it was a meme investment. And I was like, this is actually a great pitch deck. It's like, but it.
00;48;17;09 - 00;48;18;20
Aaron
Was it was tight.
00;48;18;22 - 00;48;23;21
Pri
And it was tight. I mean, you got I knew exactly what they were getting after. So I mean, it was effective.
00;48;23;25 - 00;48;31;02
Aaron
I didn't understand at the end it got like a little they had like a goose and some eggs, some golden eggs. And I'm like, what is happening here?
00;48;31;04 - 00;48;34;11
Pri
I'm like a strong I sort of like.
00;48;34;13 - 00;48;34;26
Jared
It took like.
00;48;34;26 - 00;48;42;29
Aaron
A strong pivot at the end. Some of the imagery is definitely worth it. It's like literally like a picture of a goose with like, gold eggs, like stacking up. So and then it just.
00;48;42;29 - 00;48;43;13
Pri
Kind of goose.
00;48;43;14 - 00;48;49;28
Aaron
Opens its wings. It's like it's pretty wild. I wonder how long they spent, you know, debating whether or not to put the goose and.
00;48;50;03 - 00;49;12;01
Pri
The golden goose. No, I mean, it's just seeing, like, the breadth of what the future will hold is it's going to be I mean, the next 5 to 10 years are just going to be like, insane. Like, there is like a, like it wouldn't be shocking to me in ten years. It's like people are like going out the space for like, you know, recreational tourism purposes, like that's how quickly things are happening.
00;49;12;04 - 00;49;32;04
Jared
Right? Sam? I maybe I lean a little bit more optimistic on the AI side. But I, I'm, I'm beyond excited for what the next 10 to 20 years holds. I think the future is going to be vastly different than what it is today. And I generally think that there will be some rough patches, but net net, it's it's for it's for the better for sure.
00;49;32;06 - 00;49;35;19
Aaron
Yeah. I think we're just I think we're just in a transition period a little bit.
00;49;35;21 - 00;49;51;21
Pri
Which is totally I think if you like step back and then just like realize that and then like all this stuff seems extremely normal, like all of, like the geopolitical or just like domestic politics. All of it like, feels the generational shift. Like, if you actually, like, just take a step back and like, look at it from that point of view.
00;49;51;21 - 00;49;56;26
Pri
It's like, okay, this isn't that. We're not like living in crazy times. We're just like in a transition period.
00;49;57;02 - 00;50;05;11
Aaron
I think it's more like America has always been kind of crazy, and we're just getting back to our kind of crazy roots. Pre like this is always kind of.
00;50;05;11 - 00;50;06;01
Pri
An.
00;50;06;03 - 00;50;13;08
Aaron
Insane place. I think we just had like a blip from, you know, 20, 30 year period where that was not the case.
00;50;13;08 - 00;50;14;28
Pri
So yeah, fair enough.
00;50;14;28 - 00;50;28;12
Jared
But both of those could be true to be honest. Like, I think we are in a transition place, but it's also in our DNA as a, as American to, to be a little bit chaotic was. Yeah chaotic like I mean it does both feel like truths to be honest.
00;50;28;15 - 00;50;31;01
Aaron
Yeah. I think that that's a fair way to describe it.
00;50;31;07 - 00;50;34;13
Pri
At least we have, fun art to look at along the way.
00;50;34;15 - 00;50;45;05
Jared
Amen. And it's and it's, universal. We can it's not locked up in a, some sort of Swiss report. It's all available on on your viewing platform of of choice.
00;50;45;08 - 00;51;05;12
Aaron
I do wonder, though, if those Swiss free ports. I was just thinking about going back to the the trading card game type bets. Like you would think though, that almost bet that vault would become more important, right? Like those free ports should be the ones because they can appraise things. They can, you know, confirm that they have cost you them.
00;51;05;14 - 00;51;09;18
Aaron
Like the custodian almost becomes the most important layer of the stack.
00;51;09;22 - 00;51;29;14
Pri
I mean, the custodian today is kind of an important layer of the stack. A lot of our collectors don't even, you know, be for tax purposes, like if you are in certain three ports, you don't have to and you don't like, fully accept the work you like, don't have to pay tax on it or something. So like people are already kind of playing those games with the free ports anyway.
00;51;29;14 - 00;51;45;29
Pri
So they are like pretty high utility for a lot of big art collectors of, you know, circumventing taxes to the free ports. I don't know exactly how that's done, but that is like a thing purportedly. So that kind of also is an added layer to their utility, I would say.
00;51;46;02 - 00;52;04;06
Aaron
And yeah, it's just it's just interesting. I think, you know, when even if you think of wallets, right, they're like kind of like personal custody solutions like that really does feel like that's the the layer that is capturing the most, the most value at a crypto, which I don't think it's the same in traditional finance. Right. Like it's usually like the marketplace.
00;52;04;07 - 00;52;24;02
Aaron
It does that as opposed to the the custodian. The custodians are obviously super important, but they don't seem to capture or be like the locus of as much innovation. I mean, like in many ways like circle is a custodian of treasuries, right? So and they, they kind of manage that. And I imagine that's going to be the same thing for tokenized securities.
00;52;24;05 - 00;52;45;14
Aaron
Like whoever's like actually can prove that they have access to the underlying security stock, whatever that is, is, is probably going to be able to build a successful business related to it as also thinking, are we going to get like space out pretty soon? Like usually, our art leads the way in cultural trends. So if we're if we're going out to outer space, what type of space are we going to get.
00;52;45;19 - 00;52;47;23
Jared
Would define space? This is a really interesting.
00;52;47;29 - 00;52;49;04
Pri
Yeah. I'm like I have.
00;52;49;05 - 00;53;13;25
Aaron
No I have no clue. But I mean we saw people play around with robots, right. And you know, a bunch of, like Mario and some other folks also play around that. And they're like plotters to a certain degree are robots. Right? And we've seen a bunch of artists play around with really interesting, uses of plotters, either as, like, a way to, like, create a physical form or just kind of imbue directly into and into the work itself.
00;53;13;25 - 00;53;28;16
Aaron
So we've kind of seen like, the artist class, like muse on robotics, but in some of those other categories, I don't think we've we've seen folks do much there. But I wonder if that starts happening. Maybe they'll display something from space. I don't know, like take was.
00;53;28;17 - 00;53;36;17
Pri
A take up. Jeff Koons going to do that, NFT project that with Pace Gallery in Space, that was actually a thing.
00;53;36;20 - 00;53;39;10
Aaron
Was I don't so maybe it's not. Maybe I'm not that far off.
00;53;39;17 - 00;54;05;04
Pri
It never took off. It was called moon phases, pun intended. It had never took off. That's actually funny. I'm trying to remember what it was. But I thought they were like, I don't know, I I'll find it. I need to I need to read it again. But there was like an NFT component that he was going to put, like some of these sculptures on moon.
00;54;05;04 - 00;54;22;11
Pri
It was like a pretty ambitious project. I don't remember the details, but it's funny when you did say that, it reminded it reminded me of this project. I'll send it to, We'll put it in the show notes, too, but I'll, I'll share it with you guys. Now.
00;54;22;14 - 00;54;42;14
Jared
I mean, the obsession with spaces is longstanding since, you know, the 60s, before. Right. So I think that, like, it's an obvious, you know, next frontier for what you're talking about. And I think that given its vastness, like, there's a huge opportunity to, to integrate it, and there's already a big thing collector base just with the obsession and interest in space.
00;54;42;16 - 00;54;57;22
Aaron
Yeah. The the, like, space nerds out there. There's a lot of them. And they're, like, scattered everywhere. So I don't know. I don't know what it looks like. I just I was looking at those categories and I mean, obviously a lot of artists like, put in like defense related, like objects in their work. So I don't think there's much there.
00;54;57;22 - 00;55;03;17
Aaron
I don't know what you can do for like, the life sciences, but it feels like like space. We should maybe see some space art.
00;55;03;24 - 00;55;24;03
Pri
What's kind of interesting is that when I was at Sotheby's in May, just kind of looking around the they had a section just for like super high end crystals. I mean, they were like beautiful, but they were like incredibly expensive. And it was just like different crystals from stones from different parts of the world. And like, they definitely were like showpiece kind of crystals.
00;55;24;03 - 00;55;41;03
Pri
I wonder if at some point, you know, space objects, whether it be meteors or other things, be kind, be some kind of collectible as well. I, I mean, I think you're already there. Yeah, me already there. I think I think people collect those. Right. Do people collect memories?
00;55;41;05 - 00;55;42;29
Jared
Oh, yeah. It's a big business.
00;55;43;02 - 00;55;48;15
Pri
Yeah. So maybe that just expands into like, space objects, I guess.
00;55;48;17 - 00;56;13;17
Jared
And I mean, like, think about this. Like Rolex is cutting up meteorites and putting them as, like prestigious dials. Right. And the fascination is with space is propagating further than just, you know, the, the individual collecting a meteorite or looking through their telescope. I think it's already propagated our, our society to some degree. And being able to, to hit that, to scale once, you know, going to space, I mean, Elon's obsessed with it.
00;56;13;17 - 00;56;14;29
Jared
Really. He wants to get to Mars.
00;56;15;01 - 00;56;19;10
Pri
Yeah. There's no way that, Elon doesn't have a bunch of meteorites at his house.
00;56;19;13 - 00;56;23;16
Jared
He sees the largest collector of meteorites in the world. They would be surprised by that.
00;56;23;18 - 00;56;27;14
Aaron
Oh, cool. Guys, we got NFTs in space. Maybe that's the show title. 12.
00;56;27;14 - 00;56;28;26
Jared
It of where it should be.
00;56;28;26 - 00;56;29;21
Aaron
Intro print.
00;56;29;24 - 00;56;57;25
Pri
Yeah. Let's do the intro. Hey, everyone. Welcome to Net Society today. It's special guest Jared, Aaron and me talking all things crypto culture, AI, art, space and more. Just as a quick reminder, these thoughts and opinions are our own and not of our employer and none of this is financial advice.