Defining Hospitality

In this episode, Dan sits down in person with Foreman Rogers, Principal at Blur Workshop, to discuss his career in hospitality design and the firm's recent milestone of celebrating their 10th anniversary! Foreman shares insights on the founding of Blur Workshop, the significance of blurring the lines between architecture and interiors, and the importance of empathy and listening in their design process. He also highlights the firm's collaborative culture, high retention rate, and the wide spectrum of projects they handle, from boutique hotels to large convention centers. Join us as we explore Foreman's reflections on the last decade, his excitement for the future, and the values that drive Blur Workshop's unique approach to design.

Takeaways: 
  • Create a workplace culture that aligns with a larger mission, such as caring for people or creating meaningful experiences. This can elevate the sense of purpose and motivation among employees.
  • Promote an environment where employees feel comfortable sharing ideas, asking questions, and providing feedback. Emphasize that there are no bad questions or ideas to foster innovation and collaboration.
  • Develop active listening skills and emphasize their importance across all levels of the organization.
  • Acknowledge the emotional aspects of work, especially in industries focused on hospitality and customer experience. Support your team in creating emotional connections through their work by understanding and empathizing with client and customer needs.
  • Cultivate a humble work environment where egos are checked at the door. Ensure that the focus remains on collective success rather than individual accolades.
  • While fostering a collaborative environment, ensure processes are in place to maintain efficiency and meet deadlines.

Quote of the Show: “The hospitality, it’s in our blood I think.” - Foreman Rogers

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Shout Outs:

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Creators & Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality
Producer
Rayanne Pruitt

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

DH - Foreman Rogers
===

[00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan and this is Defining Hospitality.

Hey, everybody. Today's guest is someone who's dedicated over 20 Part and brings a relentless where every project he touches. Previously honored and recognized by hospitality magazines, their shoutouts principal at Blur Workshop who just celebrated their 10th anniversary. I had the pleasure of recording this office as in a gentleman.

Foreman Rogers. Enjoy.

Dan: Ladies and gentlemen, Foreman [00:01:00] Rogers. Hey Foreman.

Foreman: Hey, how's it going?

Dan: Good. Welcome.

Foreman: Thank you. Welcome to our, I guess welcome to our office It's more

Dan: Well, I guess that's what I have to say. I have to say thank you for inviting me into this incredible office that you've built and team that you've built And for making me feel at home, especially with.

Foreman: It's

Dan: The greatest ice in the world. I love it.

Foreman: It's Atlanta. ice.

Dan: So, um, I just want to let the listeners know, um, and we were talking about this before, I, I remember you in your former life.

Foreman: Um, and

Dan: I can't believe that you started Blur 10 years ago. I cannot believe how big this team is sitting behind us. I can't believe that 10 years has gone past and it's literally it's been a blur.

Foreman: a blur. for sure,

Dan: but you should be really proud and all of you should be really proud of what's going on here behind [00:02:00] me.

It's pretty awesome and buzzing.

Foreman: Yeah, it's, we are, and we feel very blessed. And it was, you know, when you say me, it's really, we, and for sure. There's about eight of us that left a larger firm at one point and started this together. We're still together.

Dan: Um,

Foreman: Liz and Scott were the champions of the cause. They kind of, they were, they were with kind of the leaders and their perspective.

Dan: Um,

Foreman: Interiors versus Architecture of Hospitality and kind of took us with them.

Dan: Um,

Foreman: And it's just been great

Dan: great to to

Foreman: start this. It's kind of a dream come true.

Um, and It's been a lot of fun.

Dan: So a lot of the topics that have been coming up or also have to deal with just kind of that entrepreneurial journey and kind of taking that step into the unknown or the wild blue yonder, as the Air force is right, next to you. Um, but I was, I didn't realize, I'd like Blur to me has always been a really cool name and it's been really awesome to see your journey, but I didn't realize that Blur was meant because you were bringing [00:03:00] architecture and interiors together and you wanted to blur the lines between them. Right. Um, so first of all, that's awesome.

Foreman: Yep. It's something that Scott and I used to say a lot, and, and he, he more than anybody, when we go into interview, ,how we blur the lines between, architecture, you know, interiors and architecture, that I have an architecture background, but I lead interiors, Liz is the same way. .We have a lot of architects that, do that. you know, it's it's just cross back and forth constantly within our office.

that. You know, no one looks down on an interiors project. You know, sometimes in bigger firms you have like interiors on one floor and you have architecture up here and they kind of Here, we're all mixed together in one bag. You have an architect working on a, on a, roof plan sometimes. I mean an interiors person working on a site plan and an architect working on a bar.

They love it. They love learning about each other and it's kind of given

Dan: a respect

Foreman: the office for each, each discipline in a way that's just really healthy and you know, makes everybody work really well

together.

Dan: When

you

think about the 10 year, actually before we get [00:04:00] into the 10 year journey. No. Well, maybe

Foreman: You

Dan: If you have

a very detailed memory.

Foreman: Yeah.

Dan: Before we get into just the 10 year journey of where you are and where everything,

how

everything has evolved over the 10 years, but as you think about what you've built here, and not you, but you and your team and everyone here, so, um, I know that you're big on we, not me.

Um. How does hospitality weave itself into what you've built here over this 10 year journey?

Foreman: mean, hospitality is woven within everything within this office, I would say, to everything that we try to do as a practice. Um, you know, it's, you know, for us, hospitality is very emotional. Um, you know, you're, you're constantly trying to evoke an emotion of some sort in every design. Um, in order to do that, you have to kind of put [00:05:00] yourself in someone else's shoes.

put someone, Put yourself in someone else's home, someone else's place.

Dan: Um,

Foreman: you

have to really listen find out what's going on and wherever you're creating this space. Um, but you're ultimately trying to give the guest, you know, evoke an experience, of emotion when they're there. Whether it's a soccer stadium like we've done before where it's just crazy, you get excitement, you get a build up, and there's so many things that make that happen.

To a business hotel where you just want peace, you want order, you know, you want to make it as easy as possible for them. They're traveling they're on the road all the time. To, you know, a boutique hotel that's all about fun and drinking and night clubbing and all that kind of stuff. You know, there's, there's so many things we're trying to do to make sure guests Get an emotional response for every single thing that they're doing within the space.

Dan: Um,

Foreman: to do that, once again, you have to listen. And then, it's not just listening to the owner. Although they're the most important, you know, you're trying to figure out, what is what is it? what is their goal here? You know, usually [00:06:00] we want to make some money, or, you know, we want to make, we want to get more rooms, we want more leisure class, we want this, we want that.

Dan: Um,

Foreman: you listen to them first, then you start to listen to people that are, that are maybe, Down from them a little bit. Maybe it's the chef. Maybe it's the person that's working at the restaurant. Maybe it's the rooms manager. I mean, we'll go as far as even housekeeping, you know, what's, once we've gotten to a room design or something like that to say How How is how are you gonna clean this? How's this gonna work for you? Um, and we we take all this information as much as we can. There's so much. It's like the hardest I feel like Fidelity designers have the hardest job because you have all this information that you have to take. There's no formula You know, there's not a specific formula for, it. you have so many different types of brands, so many different types of hotels.

You take it all, you pull it together, and then you have to figure out your narrative. What story are you going to tell? What, emotion are we trying to evoke with this design, or whatever this hospitality project might

Dan: be?

Foreman: And the whole time, you know, I think you and I've talked about, you're managing expectations, you're managing expectations of the

Dan: client, [00:07:00]

Foreman: expectations of the guest.

Like, we're constantly trying to think, troubleshoot and think how they're going to feel within the space as well. So, it's emotional for us, cause we get really close to it. um, It's special to us, that's why we do it. We love it so much here. I mean We're pretty much all hospitality. We do some every once in a while, mixed use, but very not as much as you'd think.

Um, yeah. I think it just comes down to emotions. And it's an emotional journey when you're doing a project. Um, and in this, project this entire firm is an emotional journey as well. You know, we started, ten years

Dan: ago,

There were 10 of you who

Foreman: you who started

There were eight. There were eight, of us that left a larger firm and started this

group,

and we grew quickly. We, added two three, really right off the bat. Um, some that had worked with us in the past. that had come over. um, like I said, Liz and Scott had kind of championed the whole thing from the beginning. You know, they made this happen. We would not be here without them at all. Um, they were, you know, great role models, also great mentors of mine for years, many years.

Dan: [00:08:00] Um.

Foreman: And I was very blessed and very honored that they took me along on this journey. You know, that took me to that next level with them, and it's an honor. Um, and we've just built something that we feel really special here. We have a group of people that are, you know, it's a young crowd, which we love. We love the young, the young group.

They bring enthusiasm to it. Um, they're excited about it. Um, like I said, we sit together, so the architects and interiors all are kind of mixed.

Dan: Um

Foreman: And as we've built, we've really tried to do our very best to find the best employees we possibly can. We don't, want to hire, you don't want to hire when you're busy, and not hire when you're not.

We want people that will stay here, we want to keep them. I don't want to spend five years molding someone and trying to help them as much as possible for them to leave. And we've had a really good, I mean, our retention. is pretty good. Yeah, we're pretty good, I like to say that. um, Usually they, the majority of the time they leave just because of relocation or a different career path.

But, um, we've been very blessed to keep a lot of the people we've had for

Dan: years.

I [00:09:00] want to go back, to me again, I can't believe it's been 10 years. Like

that's socra so crazy. Um, but in the, as we started the conversation and in speaking earlier, you, you said you're a really good listener. You have to be a really good listener.

You said listen like 15 times already, let's just say. So. In the course of the 10 years, has, how has your, or has your, um,

Foreman: listening

Dan: or active listening, how Has it evolved?

and if it has, how has it? And how does it roll into what Blur's success has been?

I think,

Foreman: you know, for 10 years, you know, 10 years, right? So

Dan: you,

Foreman: you

learn to listen in different ways as you grow older.

You have better instincts, so you know how to write, ask the best, better questions, you know, you know, each project's completely different, but I think it's a constant struggle. I think for a lot of designers to sit back, be [00:10:00] quiet, and listen. We're all so creative, we all have great ideas, and we all trying to throw stuff at, at a project, and you have to just kind of sit back and revisit what is it that they wanted for this project, and how do we make that come to

life,

and make it the best we possibly can.

I mean,

Dan: mean,

Foreman: would say that the majority of our projects, you know, we have to, we have to kind of like, we have to draw a line in the sand because we just keep on going. We were, we're always, you know, we're always thinking about it, revisiting it, option after option. It's, you know, it's, like I said, it's emotional so People get really into it. Um, and we just don't give up until we feel like we've, we've given the client, or we've heard them, and what we've delivered is an answer to that. Um, and here in our office, you know. I think one of our successful, what makes us successful in this office

is,

we kind of check our egos at the door here, there's not a lot of that here, And you know, if there's a big ego here they don't last very long, check your ego at the door.

Scott always likes to say there's no bad question, [00:11:00] there's no bad answer. So when we're in a group, people feel that they can speak and talk about things and have ideas and suggestions, and that goes not just for a project, but in the office, you know. I don't know. About AT that well. somebody needs, if we need a new, if we need a new 3D printer or something like that, people make a proposal for it and we say yes.

You know, it's just what you know. we've tried really hard to instill in everybody that works here that this is their office as well, and they're building something for the future. So if they have something to add, bring it to the table. What, you know, we're constantly trying to figure out how to grow and be better and how do we make things, um, make things better for the future.

You know, kind of thinking ahead

Dan: and.

Foreman: It, it does instill kind of this comradery with everybody within the group. You know, we have people kind of heading up different things that they've just taken interest

in. Um,

I don't know if you have, a, we have a shop in the back that, I don't know if you've gone back there yet. It's kind of a mess

right now. There's, some chainsaws back there right now.

They're, they're cutting up, they're, They're, doing a [00:12:00] table for one of our projects and stuff and they're kinda having fun. But you know, there's a whole team that's kind, of taking that on.

And what's great is they also will teach others in the office how to do it. So, they have lessons where they'll come in and teach people how to make certain things and, you know, that the shop doesn't make any money for us. I mean, we build models from it, we see different perspective. but it just gives another layer to our practice that we think is important.

That you get to work with your hands, you get to build a model, you know, who does that anymore? Um, and it really does get people closer to the project, It, it's a little bit more fun, it kind of breaks your day from just constantly being at the computer. , um, anybody that can everybody, anybody can go back there with the right training and kind of work with people on it.

Um, we've done all kinds of things from

you know,

FormanRecording: custom,

Foreman: custom, concrete block to tables. Um, we've built some baguettes. We've done a ton of modeling. I think you can see the whole

row down there. yeah, There's a lot of models

Dan: going on. Love it.

Foreman: to big, you know, full scale mock

Dan: ups.

Foreman: that's just like one area that I don't know what's going on [00:13:00] there.

I see what comes out. But there's a group of guys that they've taken that on. That's their baby. They love that shop and they're making sure they're making sure everything works. It's soundproof. You don't hear anybody back there. they've made it happen. It's all been done by us, not outsourced. You know, we did build the majority of this office was built here and Scott Morris basically built the whole thing, with a group.

It's pretty amazing. So there's just a sense of pride and what we have, this kind of, um,

Dan: you

know,

Foreman: Which I think is something we do in all our projects. You can kind of see it here in the office, and then you can see it transfer kind of over to each project. How prideful we are of each one and each client.

Dan: I want to, um, go back to that, high retention that you guys are so proud of. With all, with the entire team that you've built behind, right behind me, here. Um, and then also talking about listening. So, in a way, you said, Scott said, there's no such thing as a, Dumb question or a dumb answer? Was it a dumb question,

Foreman: answer? Or a

bad, yeah, or a bad

bad,

Dan: [00:14:00] Bad idea. Um,

how do you think that,

Foreman: that

Dan: and checking your ego at the door and no such thing as a, a bad question or a bad idea, how has that helped you retain this team, build and retain the team that you have here? But also,

how

can that help you? How does that mentality, from your life experience and past work experience, how is that different and how does that help develop these multifaceted hospitality projects?

Foreman: Well, I think, for us to tell you, you can't have a huge ego. I mean, there's, granted, there are some big egos out there, I'm sure.

I I know a a few.

But, you know, for most of our clients, and most of the clients I would say that the majority of people in what I do, do, um, you have to, you have to look at things 50 different ways.

So you, you, you have to be able to listen and pivot. You know, you have to, you know, that whole idea of, you know, there's no wrong answer, there's no wrong, you know, I'll have a client [00:15:00] suggest something I'll think, oh, that's weird. but We will, we will go after it. You want us to look, discover this, We will, or study this, we'll study it.

And sometimes you're like, ah, that's what, you know, once we've studied it and kind of really worked through it, it works, and it's great. And so there's that, Um, I learned something new every day. There's no, like, I have a prescription of how it's, how this is going to work. you know, I don't have a, have a path that this is how we do things.

It's always changing. I, you know, I, guess every day I learn something new on the job, um, which is super refreshing and I love telling anybody that's young that you're going to learn. You know, The more you can learn, the more we're going to throw at you. You know, like, you know, it's amazing to see people get so involved that they want more because they've kind of taken it on as, as, their project.

It's not just me running a project.

Dan: Um,

I think it's, I think it's also interesting thinking, like you said, um, you have to look at things 50 different ways and really kind of break it down, whether it's the modeling, whether it's

just

checking

your ego at the door, asking the questions, [00:16:00] whether it's, um,

Foreman: don't know,

Dan: somehow.

I think it all ties back into the name, which I didn't realize, again, was blurring the

Foreman: and we have, we have lots of, we have design reviews where

you have other people that aren't even on the project, sit down and go, why are you doing this? You know, like, that kind of, well I'm doing it because of that, what would you do?

You know, this kind of back and forth which is great. I would say I've never made a decision in this office without asking 20 people what they think of it. You know, I'm one end user. I, you know, I know what I like in a room, well, what does she like in a room, what does he like in a room? And we're asking the client as well, before we go to the client, we need to make sure we have all these other kind of bases covered, which is nice.

you know, it's, it's, listening is so important and I think,

um,

getting everybody's opinion is so important. You know, you just want to make sure that people feel like they're being heard and that makes, you know, And ultimately, it makes you hurt even more. because they're, learning constantly, it's back and forth.

Um, We sit in this box that's over here, I think you saw it, and we do a lot, and we put a [00:17:00] blue beam on one side and Revit model on the other side. And we're going back and forth looking at the drawing, going through it, hitting details. it's the whole team, not just interiors looking at the interiors part and architecture looking at the architecture part. And we have some people, a lot of times, that aren't even part of that team listening in, just to make comments and technical and, why are you doing this? You could do it simpler doing it this way. or That goes even as far as picking out of fabrics, and you know, we have a whole whole stash of fabrics over there and they'll put everything up on the wall for a room

and then everybody will

come by you know, one by one and kind of critique or give advice, and no one's upset that they're saying anything.

There's a lot of unwarranted or asked for advice, but it's constantly being given in this office. you know, Constantly a comment here or there, oh I know where you could get this. You know, there's sharing, which I think is big, you know, I think I worked at one point at a firm,

that

Everything was kind of mine or theirs. You know, it's a

Dan: very, siloed.

Yeah.

Foreman: your project was yours, and you wouldn't share that, that, maybe that contact with somebody.

Here, everybody shares everything, you know, [00:18:00] constantly.

Dan: But, on another, on another side of that, in what we're doing, right, we're, we're designing, we're building, we're providing for these Real estate assets, right? So, they're hotels and time matters. So, I appreciate the blurring of the lines and the collaboration and getting all the buy in, but there's also a schedule,

Foreman: Well, you have to make a decision. It's not like we just go on for days, of course. you, take what you hear. And usually somebody has to make a decision. Usually it's me or somebody else that's running the project will make a decision on this is, this is okay, great, this is where we're headed. And then we go to the client and come back and get some feedback.

But, you know, it's not like we're just, you know, designing away here? We're on schedules. We're here to make money as well. You know, we're not the, you know, there's two things here. They're, trying to make money on their project and do it in a tight schedule. Schedules are ridiculous these days. Um, I think we have a project going on right now that it's the first time in probably four years that.

We're actually getting to [00:19:00] go out and site

measure

before things are made. Like, the building's being built and we're going in.

schedules are so hard nowadays. You don't have that anymore. You used to have it

all

Dan: the time.

Foreman: So, schedules are, are huge. But, we also too, you know, aren't going to let the schedule come, you know,

we'll push back on the schedule if we have to, to try and get that best product to possibly

can.

Late nights, you know, of course. But, I I

think that, you know,

It's

not just

us

over here thinking, constantly and

Dan: Right. But no, but it, but it, no, it's not rambling on. I just, I'm always amazed at like, because you do want as much collaboration and you do want to find that, you know, the best path forward, but you also have

Foreman: to You have to

do it

Dan: You have to do it

Foreman: quick. Yeah, And it's, and it's really cool that there's very few walls behind me here. Right. So, so

Dan: There is,

it just seems like a, an incubator for collaboration. [00:20:00] And there, there can be a lot of distraction in that, but you guys have seemed to manage

it very

Foreman: well.

Well, that's why we have a lot of conference rooms.

Dan: you're

Foreman: I mean, on any given day, you might see me locked in one.

Dan: think

Foreman: you're right. I think that the open concept of our office probably speeds that collaboration up faster than

Dan: anything. Mm-Hmm. ,

Foreman: Um, no one's, there's no closed offices. Everybody's kind of out there together and everybody's kind of asking questions and cross pollinating constantly through the office to where you're not having to have

a meeting

or necessarily to have that input that you might want on your project.

It's just right there behind you. Somebody's walking by, um, it's just constant.

Dan: Um,

I think another thing that's different

and

correct me if I'm wrong,

but

we're here in Atlanta, we're in your office. Everyone's coming to work every day. They're still in so many different places across the country.

It's still three, four

Foreman: Yeah,

Dan: sometimes

five days. So I think again if you're not coming in the office one day or two days That's 20 or 40 percent a loss of

Foreman: [00:21:00] collaboration.

Absolutely. 100 percent

that you're not going to get on a Zoom call You know, when you're at someone's desk and you're in real time looking at their, you know, you can sketch it out real quick with them or they can sketch something out or really quickly you can get up and go walk over to another project, pull out a box and say, this is what I, this, is the, this is what we used on this last project.

What do you think about this? Or we saw this project. We didn't get to use it here. Would you like to, or go and get four people together really quickly and huddle up in and off in, in a conference room. Like it's super, we're, we were firmly, we're firm believers that you need to be in the office, We don't we don't have, you know,

Dan: we

have,

but through COVID Right?

Foreman: We were right after COVID we were in

Dan: And right after. And so then, but also, okay, so let's talk about that and your high retention because I also think a lot of people want to come in the office

Foreman: every

day.

I, Everybody here wants to be here. You know, every once in a while when somebody's sick, they go, Oh, I hate working from home.

Cause they realize it's so much more, it's more fun. I mean, everybody has fun here. I don't, I know, sometimes we're not having the best time with a deadline, of course. You know what I mean? But It's like you're in hell, but you know, like any other, pro, you know, any other job, you're gonna have your moments. [00:22:00] But,

um,

You know, I think everybody here has fun with what they do.

They like to hear from other people. And working from home is just so hard, especially for young people. You know, I can't tell you how many people have come through, you know, for job interviews. So how many days off do I get? How many days, how many work from home days do I get? Like, you just graduated. You get none.

You know, Like, why would you work from home? You wouldn't, you don't know anything. And really, they get kind of upset about it. And I was like, you kind of look at this as a day off, don't you? You know, it was like, kind of like, this is your day where you can get

a yoga.

This is not where we're in the business for here. You know, kind of, and they're not a fit for fit for themselves. Well, and that's, I think that's also really important. Like sometimes you just know what's a good fit, what's not a good fit. Um, I will say from doing this podcast, a really good channel of feedback I get is just in that hybrid work situation. The younger people especially are missing out on 20 to 40, to 60 percent each day is 20 [00:23:00] percent of that collaboration and learn and learning.

Dan: And especially here, and not just here, but in other places, you just miss, even if you're not involved in what's going on, you see how someone's handling an issue and see that it's not okay. or like Oh, I didn't know I could react that way or I shouldn't react

that

way. and it's all that unlearned, um, Just ways of the of, yeah, exactly. All

Foreman: just part of what we did. Yeah, shop shocker. How do you get, you know, you have a problem, how do they handle it and who do

Dan: do they go

to? Mm. You know, half the time people come to me with a problem I was like, and I will direct them to three other people within the office. I know about this, but these people know better.

Foreman: If you can't get all of them coming back, we'll figure it out. But .you know, we're constantly trying to hook people up that have had similar situations and let them learn from it. We do lessons learned, of course, I think most firms do that. It's kind of a hard thing to kind of swallow sometimes after some projects, um, but it helps. it's

helpful. You know, you get to hear the horror

story and how you never do it.

Dan: Challenges and [00:24:00] problems on projects or in anything are, they suck when you're going through them, but I also

love them because it really helps,

Foreman: know, know, take the next kind of we're in the business of, We're in the business of puzzles, you know,

right?

We're, We're trying to fit all of this into one thing or maybe it's just,

you know, Ideas into one thing, right?

Like a narrative. But

then we're literally trying to fit all of this into a 5, 000 square foot box or, you know, whatever it is that you're given, you're constantly and it's

Dan: a

puzzle.

Foreman: And I always tell people like, it's fun, you know, like it's, it should be fun. Um, when you're designing a piece of furniture, it's, you got to think about it.

It's not just a pretty picture that you find out. You know, if we're doing custom and trying to figure out how to make something that's oversized, you have to think through how is it going to be put together. I know we have people that are better than us that will be doing it. Um, But if you think about it now, you won't be trying, you won't be disappointed when it comes out later.

Um, and I think that,

you

know,

puzzle, puzzles are what we're, we're, you know, a lot of times we have to get our engineers involved to help [00:25:00] solve that puzzle. But, you know, we're constantly trying to figure out the best possible way to do something. And it's fun, you know, it's like,

it's kind

of mind games, you know, that you get to still play.

It hasn't stopped. I mean, I'm very blessed and lucky that at this

firm,

I

still get to design, still get, you know, a lot of times you get, you know, a lot of firms grow differently. And one of the things we really, really wanted was we all love design. Everybody that's, you know, principal here, project manager, they love to design.

And we didn't want to give that up just to have a firm and we're still doing it. which is great. Um, I would be very sad if I was just managing people all the time.

I'd probably lose my mind.

Dan: I want

to go back to that. And I think that, As you were saying how you've, you know, kind of maintain that where everyone is still designing and like different companies evolve in different ways and you were able to help shape that culture, right?

So everyone is helping solve these puzzles. Um, when we look at blurb, the name blur [00:26:00] and blurring the lines between architecture and interiors, walk me through like how you felt at your previous how do you create something that is firm. Before you are, There's like always that anxiety of like, do I do this step, right? Do I take this step into this blurry unknown?

Number one, like what was going through your mind at that point? And then, you know, 10 years have gone by. So you, you start off thinking it's going to be one way. There's a blurry future always, but what's really come into focus over these 10 years and what are you most proud of?

of? I think, you know, at the beginning it was

Foreman: scary,

but it probably wasn't as scary for me as it probably was for Liz and Scott. They were kind of putting up the money at the beginning of this and they were risking their whole, you know, they were at a certain time in their life that I'm in mine kind of now.

And, you know, with that, you know, later becoming part owner, I have those, you know, I realized the anxiety that's behind [00:27:00] all of this, which makes this happen. Um, but it was kind of scary, but it was also exciting. You know, I, I kind of. I was ready for a change anyway, you know, it was kind of those things where

it was another city

or I don't know what it was, it was kind of a stalled, you know, we were kind of like, we were not having the best time at the place we were before.

We were traveling constantly, we weren't really seeing each other, there wasn't a lot of time to work on things together, it was because of all the travel, you know, every, you know, we were kind of, what do you call it, ships in the night, you know, kind of coming in and coming out.

and, you know, Starting

this firm was a totally different thing.

We really worked hard to say we're not going to do that. We're, we we concentrate on the U. S. We're not, we want to be in the same time zone as much as possible. Um, you know, we know that's not the case now, of course. But you know, when we started off, it was that case. And we said, okay, 35 people, that'll be great.

And we just hit 50.

Dan: uh, A

few weeks ago.

Foreman: the 50th of July. So, you know, it's that kind of, you know, that's the kind of thing, you know, now as a partner, you stay up, you get a little nervous at night about, for sure, you know, kind of keeps you up. But it's [00:28:00] exciting. Um, I think we built something special something special here. Um. But then as, as far, okay, so you were nervous, you

Dan: were

Foreman: we were a little scared.

Dan: Scott and Liz might have been more scared cause they were, you know,

going all in.

But you know, at a certain point that belief is a good trapeze net, right, and you, and you have to believe.

But

has anything surprised you from 10 years ago to now as far as like that blurry future to where you got, to where we are now, where we're sitting right now, and what's going on? And like, what are you most proud of on in that 10 years?

Well,

Foreman: I

think the blur has been the same as far as what we do here. Um, I would say what I'm most proud of is, that And I think and this is more on a personal level, I guess,

than anything else,

is I'm excited to come to work every day. Like, I really don't, you know, I, I'm excited to get here and meet on things or talk about things.

I want to see these people. You know, I want [00:29:00] to be here.

Dan: Um,

Foreman: and I think that for anyone in this industry is a blessing. I mean, I can't tell you, I mean, I have so many friends that are in different. roles. You know, segments of the world and it's just a job to them and they're not really happy, know,

Dan: they're not

I see that a lot in our

Foreman: It's and I Just, you know, I feel like I'm very blessed to come to work every day. Call my you know, my, these are my fellow principals and people that work here, friends that, we know, we tend to take care of each other, but we also just have fun together as well. there's, it's hard, you know, like I have days, you know, where it's just It's one fire after another.

But it's kind of fun when you've figured out that fire and like I tell them, we're not curing cancer here. There's always an answer. We can figure this out. You know, sometimes we're wrong. Sometimes, you know, we're not perfect,

um,

but there's always an answer to it. Let's fix it. Let's not run away from it.

And it's kind of a sense of accomplishment each fire that goes out, you know, or you

put

down

for a little

while, Um, and so I think that personally, that's probably the thing I'm most proud about. I hope that [00:30:00] everyone here feels the same way, that they're excited to come to work every

Dan: day.

Foreman: Um, I think we've also, you know, where we don't have, I wanted to circle back, where we don't have

FormanRecording: a

Dan: What

Foreman: kind of a work from home policy.

We do, some people do get to have different schedules depending on family and things like that,

but

we do really push travel. You know, we really, you know, if somebody's going to be traveling, we're like, we'll work around it. You work with your team, you figure it out. Um, I would say that this is a really well traveled team.

I think you can't learn enough from travel. Um, I know every time I do it, I learn, learn more and more. You learn compassion. You learn how to get around you learn how you learn. Different cultures, you learn. um, Um, once again, problem solving. on the fly almost every time. You know, especially when you're young and you're traveling at a different price point than maybe you are when you're older and you know, going as fast and as little as you can.

I don't know if you saw our fridge in there, but we have like 5, 000 magnets from all over the world. Like everybody has to bring back a tacky magnet from wherever [00:31:00] they've traveled and it's kind. of, It's kind of crazy. You know, it's, it's, I walk in there some days I don't have, you know, get myself a diet coke and I just start looking at all the different places and just shocked at how far diverse everyone's been.

So I think that, you know, as I said, There's so many important things about hospitality, but I think the number one thing is you gotta travel. Like I can't imagine being in this business and not loving to travel. We're all in it. cause we love hotels. like it's a living, breathing machine. When you go in there, you know, it's a whole thing working 24 hours, seven days a

Dan: week.

Foreman: And it's just churning and churning. And we do some big hotels where it's like churning in a way that it's like a mini city almost. And it's fascinating, you know, it's just fascinating to see how they work in different hotels in different places and different sizes and. you know, We all teased that Every one of us here, you know, whatever, you know, their partners would always, they all know the drill.

Don't go in the room. Let me photograph it first. And you can come in in five minutes. You know, it's like that kind of thing where we're always constantly, you know, sharing pictures and seeing things. And [00:32:00] they, you know, we've got this MO, it's like, I think it's the hospitality, you know, it's in our blood of

thing.

Dan: Totally. Yeah.

So to take that idea of blurring the lines of architecture and design, then also this, like, intense collaboration, open floor plan, everyone there workshopping, looking at puzzles or problems from five different directions. I know it's probably like all of the projects you work on are like your pets or children where you just have to love them all

Foreman: equally, but is there

Dan: Is there

is there a project recent or in the past 10 of the, past 10 years that really exemplifies

the blur,

the collaboration and the,

Foreman: puzzling.

That's tough. you can't have

Dan: a favorite child,

Well, maybe not maybe not a favorite, but maybe one that like exemplifies

Foreman: all of those five things.

Dan: Or a part of a project.

Foreman: It's just, it's tough because we've had several, you know, there's, there's many, you know, and I would say there's not specifically

Dan: one.

Foreman: [00:33:00] Um, I think when we get,

you

know,

there's

Dan: several

Foreman: types of projects that are, that are, that are more susceptible, I guess, to being more collaborative than others. I can't really say one project is my favorite at the moment or that exemplifies that the most. .We're trying to constantly do that on every single

Dan: project.

Foreman: I mean, I'm enjoying so many projects right now from, we're doing, you know, I think you know we do a lot of work with Ryman Hospitality and we're doing a lot of work with them right now still, um, they've been a client that kind of kicked us off. You know, like when we first started the

Dan: firm, they came

with

us.

Oh, I didn't know

Foreman: Yeah. Yeah. They were like, we did, it was like, we had a restaurant project, uh, It was the old Sunset Sam's, which became more Restaurant. And this year, that, that hotel and that property, and

I've known

a lot of the guys. at the gym has been there the whole time. And He's kind of moved into a Marriott role now.

But I know everybody's so well there. We finally made the full, uh, it's a massive hotel, 1, 600 rooms plus another three, three something. And [00:34:00] we've come full circle. We're finishing the lobby and all the rooms are being done. It's kind

of like,

It's like that crowning achievement of, and that's architects and interiors working each other, for

Dan: everything.

And maybe as a client, because, and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't, I know some of their properties, I don't know all, but they all seem to be massive,

Foreman: large

format, huge,

Dan: huge, like there's convention, there's rooms, there's restaurants, there's entertainment, they're just these

Foreman: mega,

mini city projects. But in a way,

Dan: you kind of need to look at those holistically and blur, and you know. Architecture, design, there's probably so many different challenges and puzzles and systems and

Foreman: it's, complicated for sure.

And working with them for so long we've been able to kind of plan ahead,

Dan: you know, what

Foreman: set a stage for how this hotel will mature and grow and,

Dan: um,

Foreman: and up itself, you know, kind of up the game on it, you know, every single time we're just trying to make it better kind of, um, and coming around.

So when we come around to the [00:35:00] lobby like we're doing now, The lobby, it's going to feel like it was built you know, when all the other stuff was renovated. You know, the rooms go with everything. It's, It's, a holistic approach that we kind of try to keep around the whole hotel, especially this one. Um, we're going to Texan right now.

We've done work out there. We built the tower there. Now

Dan: we're doing all the

guest

rooms.

That's, that's like

Foreman: thousands

of

rooms. It's, It's, it's, a lot.

Yeah. It's

over

a

thousand. Yeah. It's, yeah, It's, like six, uh,

Dan: there's a lot.

Um,

so I I would say that they are a very unique. Type of client? right? Correct. Okay. And a huge,

Foreman: like most

Dan: most hotel ownership groups do not have

Foreman: projects

like that. It's very unique. What they have is a very, I think they're the largest hotel hotels in the world that are non-gaming.

Oh, So they have

more rooms than any other hotel that's non-gaming. Like, they're the, they're basically

Dan: like

a, you know,

a

big

Foreman: Vegas hotel with that kind of size. But they're non gaming, It's

convention.

Dan: Um,

Foreman: come from a [00:36:00] convention background, believe it or not. Like, we we worked at TVS years ago. And They're very great, they're great at conventions. that's where I

Dan: I first

Foreman: Scott.

I think

it's DC Convention Center.

Dan: Um, and so,

that, that

Foreman: that, that

knowledge has really helped us with them.

Dan: them. Um,

Foreman: Because they have that convention center, that that convention

center,

Dan: um,

Foreman: department.

or Part of their hotel, and then it's also to the hotels and the restaurants, so we kind of, you get to do all of it in

Dan: one

hotel.

Yeah, massive

Foreman: Massive like, there's, and I think that our, I think our experience with convention centers really helps us with that.

Like, we're always asking, where are the majority of people coming from? Like, we're trying to, we're figuring out where they're coming from. How are we, how are they passing by this space? How are we getting more visibility? And, you know, when, when all this lets out, where do they all go?

You know, that kind of

I think for years we were in the business of moving people really well through spaces because of our background in convention centers years ago, many years ago.[00:37:00]

Um, and it's just kind of carried forward with them. But then we kind of, you know, they've been fantastic, they're a massive group, But then we do a ton of smaller hotels. You know, I think one of my favorites that we're doing now, you can see some of it, it's um, we're doing a boutique hotel at the Air Force Academy called Polaris that um, Coral Trees. doing with us, Matthew Southwest It's developing, g j's, the builder,

um, and it's been a big collaboration for sure on that

Dan: project,

Foreman: but it's, it's a smaller, more attainable and it's historic, but it's mid century, it's got all,

these things. it's totally different, you know, and then, you know, we have some, and I would say, you know, within the past five years, you know, getting to work on the Columbus Crew Soccer Stadium, one of the best experience I've had. and they won that year, you know, the year that we built, you know, it was like that kind of.

You know, they won the whole thing, And it was like this super exciting, And you could do it. you know, to get in fan world, and build these suites, and these spaces, and these big, you know, once again, moving a lot of people, but um, into bigger, you know, bigger and smaller clubs, was a blast. You know, like, we get to touch so [00:38:00] many different, this office touches so many different kinds of projects, they're all hospitality based, we're hired because we're good at hospitality, but they're all different.

You know, Ryman's huge, We might have this one that's smaller. We do one off restaurants all the time. Once again, they're not the biggest money maker in the

Dan: world, but

they're fun.

So let me ask this question because I,

Foreman: and

I

Dan: totally

respect the pets and children.

Foreman: but if

Dan: were to find a new client, that's somewhere between a restaurant and a Ryman, right?

So that's a huge spectrum. there.

Foreman: But

when

you

Dan: find

a client

like that, and you kick them off

Foreman: on

your blue

Dan: blur, collaborative team, awesome process.

Foreman: What would they say,

I

Dan: it,

how people,

because everyone works with everyone, but how would they say that working with you is

Foreman: different

than

working with

Dan: else?

Other than

Foreman: giving you the next job.

I

would

Dan: say,

or

what

do they

Foreman: appreciate?

I would [00:39:00] say they appreciate the fact that, um,

we

answer the call as soon as they, you know, we answer every call.

Um, we will give many options, we'll find the best option for them. Um, we always, I would I would say always get on a product. that probably exceeds their expectations. We're always thinking a little bit higher than maybe they are, but we know we can do it. We know we can push them in that direction, hopefully. And it works, and they make money, and they become successful about it.

And we've not just thought about you know, how to make money, but how to make something last. make it, you know, kind of timeless sometimes, You know, you don't want to have to reinvent things.

Dan: Um.

Foreman: And I think coordination wise, you know, we're we're really big on that, you know, our our, architects are fantastic at, you know, figuring a lot of things out that,

you know,

I wouldn't know necessarily, heading up most of the interiors group, but I would say that,

Dan: um,

Foreman: responsiveness, like we're here, and then owning things,

you know, we, you know, we're,

we're the first ones to own something we did wrong and we'll

Dan: [00:40:00] fix it.

Foreman: Um, there's never a, well, it happened because of this, it's like, okay, it's, it's messed up, how do

we

fix

it first? And then we'll figure out if you want

to

FormanRecording: to, if

Dan: if you want

Foreman: point fingers later, that's fine. Um, and I think that schedules, you know, we work within schedules, we work within budgets. You know,

Dan: we don't,

Foreman: we're not like, not looking at their money the whole time we're spending in building things.

Um, I think that that's something that clients really

Dan: appreciate.

Foreman: is that we're constantly trying to figure out how to keep the spirit of the project, but of course, wrangle it, within budget.

In a way, you're

Dan: giving and receiving hospitality with them by anticipating and going back to what you were originally saying, just by listening, listening, listening.

And, um, I, I, I think what you just said resonates with me so much about problems happen all the time. And like we said

Foreman: earlier

in

Dan: conversation.

They suck when you're going through them, but once you're done and you have

Foreman: a, not

Dan: when they're fully finished, once there's a plan

and a solution,

it's

the best [00:41:00] feeling in the world.

And it might take a while to work your way through it, but

I've

always been, and all, all the companies I've ever associated myself

Foreman: and

built,

Dan: it's, okay, there's a problem. Let's figure

Foreman: out

a solution. We

Dan: figure out, you know Who's issue

it

was later, but we

Foreman: have to

get

moving.

Dan: And

jump

on

it immediately.

Foreman: Yeah, I mean, I can't tell you how many times, you know, something's happened, or,

Dan: you know, say,

Foreman: the steel didn't show up, or something fell on the site or, you know, something's not working right. You know, I can't tell you how many phone calls on the weekend were like, all hands on deck, let's meet, let's figure out what's going on, let's get

Dan: this

fixed.

Foreman: And it's not a problem because we all don't, we're not going to put it off until Monday.

Dan: You

know. Yeah, because you want everyone to know that they're, we got

Foreman: their

back.

We got your back. We wanna be, you know, we want to be, we're proactive, I mean,

Dan: I think

that's something

that.

But that also comes just from the heart and caring.

Like that's like the ultimate.

Foreman: Value.

Right.

I think, you know, I Wouldn't you say that most, I feel like a lot of my friends that are in hospitality, I think all

Dan: care

Foreman: a little too much. sometimes. You know, like we're, we're all so, I mean, I

Dan: said

earlier,

it's [00:42:00] emotions.

Foreman: And it gets

Dan: on the empathy. We're

Foreman: you know, like, Yeah. I mean, like how many of us when we were young? kind of left the room for a little bit. You know, like upset about something or you get so passionate about it. it's really hard to let it go. You know, you don't want to cut that out of the project, but you're like, there's no other way. Um, so I think that, you know, I. I think we're all, you know, in this industry 'cause it's a passion.

Um,

it's,

and you can't help but be emotional about it. You know, like, like I said,

between walking into a, you

know, we're creating rooms that you walk into and hopefully evoke an emotion. I can tell you how many times I've walked into a restaurant, and gone,

FormanRecording: and go,

Foreman: Wow. You know, that kind of feeling sometimes. Sometimes you just don't, you want to feel so at peace, like, you know, that you don't even notice that all these things

Dan: being done.

Foreman: You've done it so well that no one's, you know, no one has anything to complain about, like that's when you've done your job really well, right? That They haven't even noticed that all these things that you've created are happening. It made it seamless and easy for them to, to navigate the space, use the

Dan: space. That's probably like the best

compliment,

right?

[00:43:00] Yeah, and uh, on

that

whole caring side and empathy side, I was sharing with you, I don't remember when this was, and it could have been before you were, it must've been before you were you you were at Blur, But One of my first memories of you was talking, I don't even know what the story was, but it was about your grandma in Alabama Oh my God, yes. Probably. I just

Foreman: remember, I talked about her a lot when I

FormanRecording: about

Dan: but

Foreman: She was pretty influential and I

think on all her

Dan: Yeah, but I just remember, um,

just

how heartfelt the story was that you were telling and I don't even remember, but I just, you just always struck me as like

Foreman: a

Dan: caring,

Foreman: person.

Oh, that's sweet. And just like,

Dan: on the spectrum of caring, like, over on

Foreman: the

other

side. Yeah. You know what I mean?

I, I think that, you know, I think we have to be, you know, in

Dan: this I

Foreman: think that,

um, creative people are that way. You know, like, we're telling a story constantly. Even if we're building something, you're still telling a story.

So,

I think growing up with a family that told stories, and talked about things, and [00:44:00] talked about trips, and, you know, Experiences, you know, like, her growing up, you know, it might have been her grandmother, it might have been her talking about her grandfather. or Her, grandfather, her father, who's my great grandfather, was old enough to tell me all about every single war. I mean, from the Civil War on, he was that, he was like five. So it was like, you're constantly, you know, these storytelling that we're doing, growing up and getting to hear about things in your own

Dan: life.

I

feel

like

Foreman: you didn't realize you're going to use that later in life to be able to tell stories to other people about what you're doing, with

projects.

You know, we're constantly trying to tell a story. Why are we doing this? Why are we building this hotel? What is this? hotel? What's the point of this hotel? What's the spirit of this hotel? What's the heart of it? What's the heart of this restaurant? You know, and you're constantly telling stories. So I think, you know, maybe it's a Southern thing.

I don't know. You can tell me. Um, but storytelling is a big thing in the south. Um,

and

it kind of bleeds over, I

Dan: into life and into

Foreman: work

I do. and

Dan: just.

I

appreciate [00:45:00] your caring and your open heartedness and like, I've just always picked up that vibe from you. So I, I really appreciate it.

And as

Foreman: you think

about, you know,

Dan: to reflect on the past 10 years, I know you have you're celebrating it

Foreman: this

Friday, your

10

year anniversary. Yeah, super excited. Um, and congrats, I mean, that's so awesome. So congratulations. But as you look, reflect at the 10 years you got under your belt and like, look forward, With what you've built here, what you all have built

here,

Dan: um,

The clients,

the projects, the team, the retention,

Foreman: um,

What's exciting most as you look into the

next 10 years?

I think

looking

out there, you know, looking out at what's coming behind me, um,

Dan: You know, this,

Foreman: this office was created

to kind of

grow and kind of pass to each pass on, you know, like I will be here for a certain amount of period and then it will pass on to someone else. And I get excited to see the talent that's

out

there.

FormanRecording: Um,

Foreman: I'm

constantly, you know, [00:46:00] surprised. Um, and it's, it's exciting to see and it's, you know, kind of exciting to see them kind of come forward and hopefully take on more and more roles and get them out there in of more and more people, you know.

Um, That's what gets me most excited about the future.

Like this, hopefully we've built something strong enough here, you know, like from the start to now that it will be here for a

long

time

and that it'll still be the quality of work and still be the place that it is that people want to come and work here. Clients, we love it when clients come here because they come in and they end up loving it, you know.

Um, but that's what makes me most excited about the next 10 years is seeing the talent that's out there and the people that we get to work with. Um, I think that the possibility, you know, as we've grown, we've gotten more clients and the possibility of going to other places and other, you know, other states and things that, you know, you know, there's goals, right?

I want to hit that place before I finish my career. You don't want to hit that place. You know, that kind of thing. You know, that I get excited about and hope that will happen.

Dan: Awesome.

Foreman: So before

Dan: you [00:47:00]

Foreman: made

the step

Dan: to

join Blur and be, become a principal and like take that leap from that where you were nervous and scared, like right before you were doing it, that place, that foreman,

if

the foreman

I'm sitting across from right now was to show

Foreman: up

in

front of

Dan: foreman,

would you have any advice

Foreman: or

experience

you would share?

I would probably

tell him to get a little more serious

Dan: earlier.

Really?

Foreman: Yeah,

I think that, Tell me about

that.

I think that, um, or

I think,

you kind of have the nativity when you're younger to not realize all the pieces and parts that are going on around

Dan: you to

Foreman: sure, you come to work every day but you're not really paying attention to everything that has to happen to make sure you have all of that to do your work and the work that's coming in and going out and all these other pieces and parts.

I'm shocked, you know, I wasn't

FormanRecording: be, you know, I

Foreman: expecting it to be this great. So,

Dan: you know, it's been,

Foreman: I'm pleasantly surprised all the time as to where I am in my life [00:48:00] this firm. And I don't think for two seconds every day, I don't say how blessed I am that I'm just so excited that this happened, that I was, you know, that I was thought of enough to be on this journey with other people that I love to work with.

Um, But I would have told myself, you know, kind of foreign, you know, look a little bit, look a little, look a little bit more, be a little bit more, you know, maybe listen more. There you go. Start listening sooner. Here you go. There you

go.

Right back to listening. Listen sooner and harder, you know, like really, you know, develop those skills earlier, um,

Dan: would

Foreman: would

probably be the best

Dan: advice

I give anybody.

I love it. And, And on the listening front, um, you know, it's been, I think you're at 10 years.

Foreman: think

Dan: next

week,

or The week after is the three year anniversary of starting

this. Wow.

And I think over that three years, I've become a much better listener too. Um, because this is such a weird way to

Foreman: communicate

with

people.

It is. We're not all used to doing it this way,

Dan: you're doing it really

good. Right? Oh, I'll stop. No, but what's,

Foreman: It's like you've been doing [00:49:00] this for a long time, to be honest.

Dan: Three years. Three years. But it goes by so fast, but I, but what I'll say is it's it's an unusual form of communication, right? So. typically, if we're out to

Foreman: dinner

Dan: at lunch

or something,

it's do you want sparkling

or still?

Do you

want, what drink do you want? What appetite? You're always

interrupted. Yeah.

And this is like an uninterrupted

Foreman: hour

Dan: just

Foreman: talking,

Dan: talking and trying to, and really for me to listen and see where you're lighting

up and then like

kind of

Foreman: dig

in

a

little bit

more.

Well, it's, do you know, it's also a better,

for me, it's easier 'cause I know you, I've known you, for years.

You were one of the first people I met in the industry. We've been together a long time. But it's also nice to have that friendship with somebody that you can talk to about this, that knows

the industry

really well. You've Been

in it for a long time

and it makes it that much more comfortable.

So it's, You don't get to have that, like you said, uninterrupted conversation with someone that knows what you're all about to an extent. And get to

Dan: find

out more.

Foreman: I mean, Somebody

needs to

Dan: do this to

you.

Somebody

Foreman: needs

to put

you in

[00:50:00] this

Dan: a seat. that's

like

Foreman: Uhhuh. dreadful.

It is somebody,

yeah. yeah, maybe I'll

do it to you. Turn, Turn the camera.

It'd

Dan: awesome.

Foreman: Uh,

Dan: Yeah,

Foreman: it

happens

sometimes.

Um,

Dan: and it's just always weird. I feel like I have nothing to say. Like, I just like, I I feel like I like talking to other people

Foreman: and

getting

Dan: stories out.

Which I'm probably full of shit. I probably have plenty to say. But it's, a, I just don't like

it. I

don't like the, uh.

I don't like the spotlight on me.

Foreman: I mean, it's not, I wouldn't say it's something that I was really looking forward to today, but I know you and I really wanted to do it. You know, it's like one of those, I just teased them. I was like, maybe I should have a

Dan: cocktail in front of you.

Foreman: Cause you don't, you know, it makes you a little

Dan: but

Foreman: it's It's been great.

Dan: have I been treated? have

I

made you feel

Foreman: It's been great.

I am super, super comfortable now and all good. Uh, yeah, I appreciate it. this easy.

Well

Dan: you.

I

mean, this has just been wonderful, and again, a heartfelt

Foreman: congratulations

No,

Dan: years. I mean, that's fucking amazing.

Yeah,

Foreman: excited.

Dan: congratulations. Um, if people wanted to learn [00:51:00] more about you

or

blur, what's

the

Foreman: way?

Our website, um, you can go to that very easily. Our names are on there

as you, you can

call me and there's a list of people on there. There's also a way to, there's also a link that can

that

can do an inquiry.

We have, a, we've found some of our best clients that way, you know, like, some people like, I can't believe I found you putting a link on your, that called them back the next day and said, saw, saw what you wrote and become a client and um, Instagram, a

Dan: lot

of

people follow us

on Instagram.

Oh yeah. That was also surprising.

Foreman: So

if anyone's

Dan: looking,

FormanRecording: me know.

Foreman: For

Dan: For a job, I don't know if you're hiring now or not, but it was really surprising to me that you're getting most of your new hires. from?

Foreman: for us, like three or four years ago, we realized that people were coming in and I was like, well, how did you find, how did you find, us?

You know, like you went to Yale. What are you coming down here for? I followed you on Instagram. I was like, what? Um, but it's, it's amazing how, you know, it's, it's a big thing, Instagram. is powerful, you know, like, it's, um, it's fun. But a lot of, I would say, I would say, Half the employees out there found us on [00:52:00] Instagram, or they were following us on Instagram during school, or whenever,

and

they wanted to

come to Atlanta.

So, you know, they interviewed at the firms that they were following, and, um, it was really nice. you know, It was kind of, you know, for some of the old fogeys that, you were like, oh, Instagram, you know, I love it a lot. But, you know, some people like, oh, I don't think it's that powerful. I was like, oh, it's powerful. a heartfelt thank you for your time and putting yourself out there and letting our listeners experience you.

know, it was great to have you. Thank you. And also, thank you listeners, because without you, we wouldn't be here. We keep growing. So, please remember to like, follow, subscribe.

Dan: And all that stuff. And we'll have

Foreman: more

and more.

So thank you.