Pride & Prejudice Part 1 - Jane Austen - Classic Literature - Romance Book

In this episode, Shiara, Slava, and Jonathan dig into Volume 1 of Pride and Prejudice, and things get surprisingly heated. We break down why Jane Austen was basically living her own novel, why Mrs. Bennet is actually more tragic than she is crazy, and why Mr. Darcy is either the most misunderstood man in literary history — or just a really well-dressed snob.

Also: Jonathan was not bamboozled by Wickham (for the wrong reasons), Slava almost ruined Thanksgiving, and we had a full debate about the Georgian vs. Victorian era that started before church and ended on air.

Part 2 is coming. There is a lot more book to get through.

ABOUT THE BOOK
When Elizabeth Bennet first meets eligible bachelor Fitzwilliam Darcy, she thinks him arrogant and conceited; he is indifferent to her good looks and lively mind. When she later discovers that Darcy has involved himself in the troubled relationship between his friend Bingley and her beloved sister Jane, she is determined to dislike him more than ever. In the sparkling comedy of manners that follows, Jane Austen shows us the folly of judging by first impressions. She superbly evokes the friendships, gossip, and snobberies of provincial middle-class life. This Penguin Classics edition, based on Austen's first edition, contains the original Penguin Classics introduction by Tony Tanner and an updated introduction and notes by Viven Jones.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Jane Austen was born in 1775 in the small Hampshire village of Steventon, where her father was a Church of England clergyman. The household was large, creative, and deeply literary — a childhood that shaped everything she would become as a writer. She began writing seriously as a teenager and spent the following decades crafting some of the most beloved novels in the English language, publishing them anonymously, identified only as "A Lady." 

She accepted a marriage proposal once but changed her mind the following day. She never married. In 1809, she settled into a cottage in Chawton, Hampshire — offered by her brother Edward — where her most productive years followed and where she wrote, revised, and published all six of her major novels. 

In 1817 she fell ill, moved to Winchester to be closer to her doctor, and died on July 18 of that year at just 41 years old. The world didn't learn her name until after she was gone. Today she is considered one of the most famous and influential writers in English literature, celebrated for her elegant style, dry humor, and timeless explorations of love, reputation, and what it meant to be a woman with a mind of her own. 

More info here:  https://janeaustens.house/jane-austen/jane-austen-a-life/

ABOUT THE SIDE QUEST BOOK CLUB PODCAST 
Reading is the ultimate side quest. Side Quest is a casual book club podcast full of literary adventures. Join Slava and Jonathan as they discuss the books they are reading, life, history, belief systems, and more. Explore world-building, characters, and story development, and share some laughs along the way.

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Host

Jonathan

Host

Slava

What is The Side Quest Book Club Podcast?

If you’re a reader looking for something deeper or an indie author working on your book, The Side Quest Book Club is for you. We skip the usual book reviews and ratings. Each episode turns fun side quests into real lessons, so you’ll leave not just entertained, but with a better understanding of why storytelling matters.

I wouldn't want to put a musket in my, you know, moth-blowing brain. Because if you miss the first time, it's harder to... It's hard to reload with half your face missing. That's one less daughter to worry about.

I think you're right on it, Slava. So, Slava. Yes.

What did you think about Pride and Prejudice? I'm on the edge of my seat here. Well, I liked it. I didn't finish it just yet.

I liked it. I know the whole story because I watched adaptations and I read commentary on Jane Austen and an analysis, a literary analysis in the book. So I know it.

I understand they get together in the end, spoilers. But I liked it. I liked the prose and I like the commentary that Jane Austen is making about marriage.

I, you know, side with her. Because my wife has done studies on, well, we'll just call them gender studies, theologically adjacent gender studies. And the stuff that's going on in the country now with the trad wife movement and all the other gag-inducing nonsense associated with that, it comes off from trying to get back to the 50s, who, and in that moment, people in America were trying to get back to the Victorian era.

And people don't understand that it wasn't the golden age of marriage and the golden age of gender, you know, relations. It was weird. That's a different one, a different author.

I just made that mistake before we started recording. Yeah, so I enjoyed it and have enjoyed the adaptations that I watched and now reading it for the first time, actually, you know, sitting down, page one to, I think I got to chapter 16 or something. I enjoyed it a lot.

It's funny. Commentary's witty. I like her poking a little bit at the bear, if you want to call it that, for lack of a better term.

I enjoyed it. And knowing a little bit of her story, I enjoyed it even more. Yes, it's so interesting when you learn more about Jane Austen and then you read her books.

She's this weird enigma because she dies young at 41. We can call that young. She dies young and she dies what they would have called then a spinster.

She's never been touched. She's pure. She's never been married.

Well, are we sure about that? And yet- She never documented it. Well, we're not, we're not. She never documented it, yeah.

And she has, there's a lot of documentation because one of the really awesome things about Jane Austen is that she wrote a ton of letters with her sisters specifically. Cassandra or Jane, she had two sisters. There was several siblings, but they wrote a ton of letters.

And so what we know of Jane Austen is based on those exchanges. And in fact, I actually read an article not too long ago, they discovered a bunch of paintings that Cassandra had made during the time that Jane Austen and her were living together. And because they were both spinsters, neither one of them married and they took care of each other.

And they found that Cassandra had actually, she burned a ton of letters after Jane Austen's death to protect her privacy because she was already well-known. Although worldwide, she wasn't as an author. People didn't know that Jane Austen had written all these books.

She actually published most of her work as an anonymous lady. And so nobody knew, but her inner circle did. And people in the town where she lived, which she lived a long time in Bath, a seaside town in England.

And so people there knew who she was. Jane had one sister, Cassandra, eight, seven brothers? Something like that? She had, I can't remember exactly how many siblings she had. She definitely had, yeah, she definitely had a brother who helped her get her stuff published.

And then after Jane Austen died, he's the one that shared with publishers and with the world that Jane Austen was, in fact, the person that had written all these books. And that's when she really became famous after her death. But what we do know about her personal life, romantic life, is that she was proposed to once by someone who had a decent amount of money.

Scholars speculate that he may have been a character very similar to Mr. Darcy. But she, so she accepted and then declined very quickly because she didn't have feelings for him. She wasn't in love with him.

But she knew at the same time that she would have some financial stability if she did get married. And she chose to not marry him because there was nothing emotionally happening there for them. And then they also speculate that there was another gentleman, a lawyer, who she had a connection with and that wound up not turning into anything because she was not a desirable person or a desirable partner because she didn't have money.

And so he winds up marrying someone else and she winds up writing about it for the rest of her life. So she was stashing her book winnings in her mattress? Is that what you're telling me? She's a regular Victorian drug dealer? She was, I mean, she made a living, but it was not respectable for a woman to do that, which is why she never published under her own name. Oh, and she died in the middle of writing her last book, which any Jane Austen fans out there, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

She was unable to finish her last novel, Sanditon, which I think they still published, but unfinished. They published it unfinished. Yeah, I found it interesting that she ended up saying no to her version of Mr. Darcy.

And interesting just as a, like, literally as the fact itself, I'm like, oh, okay. So she kind of lived true to her thoughts or her beliefs. So I thought that was a cool tidbit when I read about that, that it was the next day, I think on the blog that I was reading, and it's connected to her family, like janeaustens.house. I think it's like either a super informed fan club or somehow connected to her family or her publishing house or whatever the hell it is.

But it was over the very next day, she accepted it and she thought about it, had some time to sleep on it. And I was like, you know what? I got zero for this dude, no vibes. And she just called it off.

At least she gave it a chance, right? One day's long enough. Hey, I've ended relationships over an hour. So yeah, good for her.

I've never even had an hour long relationship. Wow, well, maybe she'll write a book about it. Yeah, that's super interesting.

It makes me think, now that you say that, and I've never had this thought before, maybe, I wonder if she regretted making that decision. Like, you know, could she have given this guy a chance and maybe they would have connected eventually over time? Because I'm sure that did happen. And she like gave up on the potential there that existed.

Could be, because Victorian engagements, it wasn't like they were married the following Saturday. There had been an engagement period that had gotten to know each other. Lives would have been merged.

It wasn't just dances and tea parties to get to know you. So as soon as the engagement took place, there was time to get to know the person. But also there's like, that's true.

So there would have been time to get to know someone. But I imagine, I'm just like trying to put myself in her shoes and I'm thinking, she may have been scared to take the time to get to know him in that engagement period. Because once you start that period, now you really can't take it back.

Now you're in it. Now you have to walk down the aisle. It's not like she could have spent the next month while they're planning the wedding to like get to know this guy and then, nevermind, I'm just gonna, because that would have been absolutely unacceptable.

I mean, in the end, she still winds up alone, which it was for a lot of women, like the worst thing that could happen to them was to not get married, not have financial stability. So in some ways, she still lived that part of her life that she probably didn't think would happen to her. The only saving grace here is like, she did write books and she was able to make some money, enough to make a living and not be totally poor.

Yeah, good for her. I mean, she lived the life she wanted. And I know to some in our audience, that might be like, rah, rah, you go girl.

And to others in the audience were like, well, that's kind of selfish. But at the end of the day, she made a choice and she lived with it and she did make money and she died young, but. Well, and another thing to note, right, is like she could have moved towns, right? She could have looked around.

Maybe. I think society, I mean, I don't know for sure, right? But I think English society at the time was probably, you know, fairly small. Especially, there were all these protocols in place for women, depending on your class, you would have to be presented in court to be out in society, which meant you were free to date, to be courted by men.

And so people knew who you were. If you weren't presented in court, then you were just like a regular person and you could marry whomever, but the likelihood of you marrying rich, you know, it didn't exist. There was no likelihood, it was zero, right? That wasn't going to happen for you.

Yeah. Yeah, so it was super interesting. Let's talk about, she's one of my favorite characters.

Let's talk about Jane's, I mean, not Jane, Elizabeth's mom. Yes. Mrs. Bennet.

Oh, gosh. I love Mrs. Bennet. Her group side.

She is a unrestrained mother. She's absolutely ridiculous. Oh my gosh.

Her husband should have put his foot down more. But he's apathetic and he's tired of her ass. So like, come on, he's just like, ah, whatever.

I watched the 1995 Pride and Prejudice, episode one the other night, which is about the first third of the book, a little less. And I was just watching this guy and I was like, man, you got all these women and you're just trying to eat a chicken. You're just having your soup, eating your chicken.

And you just, just look at him. He's just like, he's just there. And they're all, me, me, me, me, me, me.

Yeah, but, well, first of all, I think it's a caricature. It is. But I don't think it's far off of how these people thought because I know Mrs. Bennet.

I've met enough in my life. They're obsessed with other things than marrying off daughters, but they're just as, you know, lunatic in their approach to whatever that thing is. So I liked her too for all the wrong reasons.

No, that's, I shouldn't say that. That doesn't make sense. And for the satirical reasons, yeah.

I liked her because I'm like, oh my gosh, this woman's ridiculous. So ridiculous. Yeah, I, there's something about her that is just so familiar to me.

I really don't want to say she's like my mom, but there's- I don't think your mom listens to the podcast. It's fine. Well, she'll listen to this one and I actually thought about this before and I was like, I can't make the comparison.

I can't make the comparison. But it's not, okay. It's the intensity.

It's the intensity in which she lives that reminds me of a Latin mother. And Latin mothers are very concerned with the men that their daughters marry. They're boys as well.

They're sons too. But the daughters, there's a sensitivity around that because we're women. And so I, yeah, the intensity level in how she lives.

It just, it's a very, very Latin of Mrs. Bennett. So how did Jonathan get past your mom then? What conjurings did he have to perform? He almost didn't. It was- That's not true, audience.

That's not true. My mom was not a fan. Let's talk about why.

I guess we're gonna get into this. Let's go. No, no.

Come on, come on. He has no money or prospects. Well, that wasn't why, actually.

I always have money. I'm always a prospect. I'm also, I'm like Jane.

I get that author mattress money. No, she was not a huge fan, but he grew on her. He grew on her.

I'm like a strong fungus. It's in your basement. You don't think much of it.

And then a year later, it's just everywhere. Yeah. In your lungs.

I'm talking everywhere, buddy. In your drawers. But no, the reason that she didn't like me from my perspective is because I snipped back at her.

She would say things and I'd go, and I'm just too quippy. I'm just, this is one of my favorite moments. So Mimi, if you're listening to this, this one's for you.

I came to pick you up one time and I was like, hey, we got work to do, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And she's like, oh no, you're not going to treat my daughter like a princess? And I looked at her. This is a half second.

I look at her and I go, your daughter's not a princess anymore. She's about to be a queen. You want to keep her from being a queen? And she's like, uh, uh, uh.

Alex, our moms are over here. Well, she just didn't know what to say. So it's, but those moments happened a lot.

So, you know, she, she, every interaction, basically. Cause like, I can be cordial. I can be fun.

But if you're going to be snippy, then like game on. What's the, put me in the arena. It's fine.

I will play that game and I will win every time because I don't have dignity. I just have winning. Now you don't, as evidenced by our text chat earlier today.

You, if you, if you've known me for 20 years and you think I have dignity, man, you got another thing coming. We've all grown to love our fungus. The only thing like that, that I had with my now deceased mother-in-law was I ruined.

And some, some of you in the audience will might remember the story from earlier. Like I think season three is I ruined Titanic for her and her stupid friends. No, she know the boat saying, but she was like so infatuated with the movie.

They were like, I'm a guy. Did you guys watch the movie? It was so great, blah, blah, blah. And this is now like 10 years after the movie had come out and they're still gushing over the movie Titanic.

I'm like, all right guys, let me get this straight. Mind you, everybody's been drinking wine, eating Turkey and you know, an ungodly amounts of both. I was like, all right, so let me figure this out.

Let me lay it out. Some street urchin seduces a young rich girl who happens to have an asshole fiance. They bang, he dies.

Wow. And if looks could kill and half of me was joking and half of me thinks the movie is whatever, I don't care. It's a great production.

He made a lot of movie. I'm happy for James Cameron, but the story is kind of shit. Like I don't care for the story itself.

And so I said that and I had four people looking at me with just, first it was, they were aghast. So they were like, Mrs. Bennet grabbing her pearls and fainting. And then they turned into whoever that sister was for making fun of Elizabeth for walking in the mud.

Then they turned into, you don't understand romance. I'm like, I don't care. Yeah, yeah, whatever.

So never snipped at my mother-in-law but I did ruin her life once. Cause she was like, she remembered that. She was like really, it was also Thanksgiving.

So what does that have to do with it? Well, you know, everybody's supposed to be happy and joyous around Thanksgiving. Yes. Be grateful.

Yeah. Anyway, we have went off the rails. Let's bring us back to Victorian era.

Let's bring us back, Chiara. Yes. Yeah, so Mrs. Bennet, she's a ridiculous lady.

Yeah, and Mr. Bennet is just like so annoyed that he has so many silly women in his life under his roof. And then they're all women, which means that he has the added stress of now I have to find partners for all of my daughters, three of which he doesn't seem to think are very valuable. That's right.

That's one way to put it, yep. He's like, because the connotation in silly, it's not like how we say silly these days. He's just like, these girls are absolutely useless.

They're boy crazy. They do whatever they want. They misbehave, they're just like wild.

They're just wild girls. Untamed stallions. Yeah, and now he has to do the work of like finding partners for them and they don't have money.

So it's not like they're attractive because of their money. So at least if they had money, then you could be like, well, somebody will want them because they're rich, but no money, poor personalities sound like, it's a hopeless situation. But he loves, but we know from the book that he loves Elizabeth and Jane.

Those are absolutely his favorites. Elizabeth, Lizzie is his favorite child, right? Because they're similar. You see how they like poke fun at different times in the book and they're like looking at each other and having a good time.

It's like their little inside joke. Yeah. I guess you got Mary who's just pretentious and Catherine who just likes sitting in a room and reading and F everything else.

And then you got Miss Bennett, who's probably the thorn in his side. Oh yeah. Jane seems to be kind and just sweet, but I don't think he has anything in common with her.

And this is again, Victorian era. So he's like, yeah, this is just another mouth to feed, another woman in my house. But something about Elizabeth really endears to him.

He's endeared by her. So the way you were describing their similarities. Yeah, yeah.

And yeah, one of his quips, and I'm racking my brain to remember it, but maybe Sherry can help me. When Mrs. Bennett is going on about her feelings and he says something like, no, I care about your feelings, but I've lived with them all my life or something. Yeah, he's basically become indifferent to them.

He's just like, yeah, okay. Your feelings are great, put them in the closet. Don't care.

Yeah, but that episode, or maybe I'm thinking about two episodes that happened, whatever the case may be, but the episode where she is prattling on about one of the daughters not taking a proposal and how she doesn't care about her feelings. And then the daughter walks in. She's like, see, she's silent.

And she's not even talking to me. Nobody cares. And I think I literally rolled one of my eyeballs in the back of my head when I was listening to that portion.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this is, so the story is told in a super funny way, right? We're all laughing. We're like, oh, Mrs. Bennett, here we go again.

She's being dramatic. But this is quite a serious situation. I think you're talking about when Mr. Collins proposes to Lizzie.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yep. This is huge because- Because he's her cousin? No, no, no. That's not important during this time.

Cousins married cousins all the time. It was fine. Because it was all about like keeping the money in the family.

No, this is important because- Have you seen British people? Sorry, sorry. Certainly one way to do it. Sorry British people out there.

No, really. Certainly one way to do it. I think they're used to it by now.

Everybody makes fun of their food, their teeth and their appearances. It's just a stupid thing that people do. No, this is important because Mr. Collins is going to be inheriting Mr. Bennett's property.

He is the only male heir. And so he comes to Longbourn? Yeah, Longbourn. He comes to Longbourn, right? Their estate, to find amongst all the daughters, someone that he can marry so that it'll stay in the family.

And he doesn't have to kick him out when he decides that he wants to move in. And so this is why Mrs. Bennett is so upset because she's basically saying like, you have absolutely ruined us. If he marries someone else, he has the right to ask us to leave.

And then where will we go? Because they have no money. So. But what's wild to me is that he's a clergyman and he lives two towns over or whatever with Lady Berg or whatever her name is, Catherine Berg.

And it's like, you're going to commute on horse to your clergy thing every day? Probably not. Seems distant. Because he's like, I'm going to take this thing here.

Then I'm going to get on the 1030 train. Then I'm going to take a carriage to your house and I should probably arrive around 4 p.m. That's a long ways away from wherever his job is. So, Slav, I know that you withheld a rant earlier that you mentioned to me about my complaints about books.

But that's my first complaint here is the logistics of his job in relation to the distance of procuring said house. Anyway, sorry, Shira, keep going. Well, see, that rant, I would agree with you.

Like us breaking the story or coming up with theories is great. What I thought you were going to complain about first is I want more, the usual bit. We're like, well, what's Elizabeth's backstory and where did Mr. Darcy come from and why does he dress the way he dressed? Who hurt him? Why is he so upset? Where you can't just enjoy the story as a slice of life.

You have to like dig into people's life. You're like a rabid detective. I am a rabid detective.

I do want to know who hurt Mr. Darcy and I want to get him some therapy. But it's interesting to note that despite Bennett being a crazy person, her fear, as you were just describing, Shira, is real. Like whether or not Collins is going to, you know, commute for, you know, two days, you know, to do his job or four hours or whatever the hell the commute is, whether or not he's going to kick him out, the potential to lose everything is real for this woman and because they don't have any money and maybe because, and this is me reading into it, Mr. Bennett is a little bit aloof and apathetic and not paying attention to her, maybe that scares her even more because if they were unified in their desire to marry off their daughters for the reasons that they are worried about it because of the culture they live in, if they were unified in their approach, maybe Ms. Bennett wouldn't be such a psychopath about it.

But her, you know, part of me kind of feels sorry for her. Like there's empathy, if you will. Like she is scared because it's more than just getting a hubby for her husband.

It's, oh, we're going to be destitute and poor. Okay, so let's go down this track for a second. Is he, and if I've missed this, just feel free to correct me, is he sickly or is this just a general fear that's like, well, he, you know, when he dies, we're going to lose it.

Because if it's just a general fear, my empathy wanes. If it's a, he's a sickly right now and so he could pop at any day, but I didn't get that from the book. No, if he dies, if Bennett dies without a son inheriting his estate, the daughter would get diddly.

Correct, correct, but he's not in bad health. So it doesn't matter. No, no, you don't know.

It's the Victorian era. People die, you know, spraining their ankle. Like, you know, the cold that Jane has, it's kind of brushed over in the book, but the cold that Jane has could have killed her in that time.

Yeah, and he makes fun of that at one point. He's like, oh, well, if Jane dies in the pursuit, you know, or if he, she dies from this cold, I will be glad to know that it was in pursuit of Mr. Bingley. He's being totally sarcastic, right? But each joke has an ounce of truth in it.

So that's one less daughter to worry about. Well, and it makes you wonder, you know. More to go.

You know, Jane Austen is like making fun of all these things, but they're all harsh realities for women during this time. And she's just like riffing and making fun. It's good satire.

It's great. It's great. It's absolutely great.

And in fact, in one of her books, it's a story about a mother and her two daughters, three daughters, and they get kicked out of their estate because the son from a first marriage inherits and they're pushed out and they're forced to like relocate into a very small cottage. And so the whole story is about that. But so yeah, this was a reality for them that they had to reconcile.

And so it's interesting that even with that pressure, these women are still looking for like a love match. Some high standards back then. Which they might never find.

Despite the reality that you're in. And I don't think, I mean, this is specifically for women. This is, you know, what they experienced.

So you can't really separate gender from it. But I imagine no matter who you are, if you're a normal person, a well adjusted person, you understand the culture you live in. And this is what we have to do.

We have to marry off Chiara, otherwise her and mom are gonna live in a shack. But you would want, I would imagine, most people would want something beyond just a transaction. They don't want the man to be a good person, a caring person for their grandkids.

Not everybody, you know, was just a monster back then because they had different sentimentalities than we do. I'm sure they wanted some form of love. It wasn't all transactional.

But to Chiara's point, this is just the reality of the society where if you're not married, you're f***ed. Sorry, ladies. And, you know, it carries over.

You're not, you know, in the way that you would imagine, but you're f***ed in other ways. By society. And, um.

But that hasn't changed. Right. In hundreds of years, that's still true.

That's, no, we're still there. But you have to, if you take it in, you know, in kind of a more global context, in America, it wasn't until the late 60s or early 70s where women could get their own credit cards. Because you know how women are with spending money, right? So you needed a co-signer.

You needed like a male co-signer to get a credit in your own name. And it wouldn't be in your name because you'd have a co-signer. So, you know, yes, those are not necessarily connected in, you know, the strictest of ways.

But the fact that, and especially during this time, women were S.O.L. That they weren't attached to a wealthy husband, whatever that meant in your class. Because there's no pretty woman scenario for the maid. The maid is not going to get swooped off her feet.

And they can live at the same house. Right. The chef.

They're not going to marry the man of the house. So, yeah, so to that, you know, women of lower class could marry and not, I'm going to ruin the story. So we know Darcy and Elizabeth wind up together, right? He's one of the wealthiest men in England.

And, you know, he has the right to do that. He can do that. He knows he's not going to, you know, get any money from this marriage because she's poor.

And it would have been looked down on that decision. It would not have been a prudent decision for him to make because it doesn't make him any money. But he's a man, so he can do whatever he wants.

Is it a smart financial decision? No, but he marries for love. And I think, if I understand Darcy, I think he's just bored with it all. He's just a better adjusted Mr. Bennett.

He's just like, I don't care about your dances. Monkeys can dance. He says, savages, even savages can dance.

Who the hell cares about all this nonsense? And as he gets to know Elizabeth more and breaks her down a little bit because she has her guard up, because she has rumors about him. And in her own way, the prejudice is, she's bought into society's prejudices, yeah, whatever, about what Mr. Darcy is, right? Because he's not playing the game. And so he's not playing the game because he doesn't care.

When he realizes that Elizabeth is much more attractive than any rich woman who plays the game, he's like, yeah, at least I can be happy. And not in some trite, modern day romance kind of happy, but in a real sense, I could have some sort of a partner, maybe, I don't know. A woman I could talk to, and I wouldn't want to put a musket in my mouth and blow my brains.

It's because if you miss the first time, it's harder to reload. It's hard to reload with half your face missing. I fired muskets.

I want to back up a second. Some trite, modern romance slobber, are you okay? Do you want to talk? No, listen, I am all for, I am Jane Astin's. I'm Jane's ass.

Jane Austin's cheerleader. I am Jane's wife. Yes, I am Jane's ass.

Okay, Fight Club. But the reason I love my wife is she is more of an Elizabeth than any of the others. I would literally kill myself if I had to deal with a Ms. Bennet, or I'd be in jail for murdering her.

Because I just couldn't deal. And I've talked about this before when we covered She Had Glass Eyes, Chiara. I cannot stand damsels in distress.

I have no problem playing some sort of version of your traditional gender role where I'm the man and I'm the provider. Sure, I get it. There's different distinctions, and they exist objectively and cross-culturally between men and women.

I'm all good with that. But I need an adult. I do not want a 14-year-old damsel trapped in a 40-year-old's body.

Doesn't do it for you, huh? Yeah. So I'm reading into it, and maybe you're projecting a little bit, but I think if I'm reading this book correctly, Darcy's somewhere in the same page as me. He's like, please, Lord, kill me.

Not another stupid dance. I don't have a second musket. No, no, I think you're right on it, Slava.

So let's talk about the dynamic between Elizabeth and Darcy, because this is really, this is the main attraction of the book is how quippy and sarcastic they are with each other. They're constantly pushing each other to the limit in their conversations, to the point where it makes, there are scenes in the book where it makes other people uncomfortable. Yeah, but they didn't make it uncomfortable because somebody dropped the wrong spoon.

So yes, that is true. That is true. That's absolutely true.

But still, that's part of the fun is they kind of, when they are talking to each other, they're in their own little world, and people don't know how to interject because they are being mean to each other, and they're having fun. And I think that you're totally right, Slava. He's got everything.

He's rich, he's got property, he's got business, he's got family, he has everything. And you know that he's bored because he has his best friends, the Miss Bingley, right, Mr. Bingley's sister, who obviously has a crush on him, and he couldn't give two shits about her. She's beautiful, she's attractive, she's elegant, she has everything that most men would want, money.

She doesn't have him. Except for she's not interesting to him, and he is obviously an intellectual man and likes the banter. Yeah.

And that's what attracts him to Elizabeth, really, in the end. Because at the end of her stay at Bingley's home when her sister is sick, we know that Darcy feels like he's in danger because he's so drawn to Elizabeth, and it's absolutely a conversation. Yeah, I didn't understand that line, exactly.

But that's a language barrier for how language was used then versus now. Well, they're saying he's in danger of falling for her. Got it.

Because he's trying to even not look at her, and it says somewhere in there, he tries to not address her. At one point, they're in the same room together, and he doesn't even speak to her, doesn't acknowledge that he's there. It's super awkward.

And maybe that's why I feel a kinship to Darcy or why I think I'm reading him the way I am is when my wife and I were set up, and we were set up by two yentas who wouldn't leave us alone and you guys should just sedate, you guys are perfect for each other, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, she's cute, fine. Okay, whatever, we'll hang out.

Leave me alone. I just got out of a relationship, had some transitions in my life, wasn't interested in dating. But then I'm like, oh, I kind of like the way she talks.

I like the way she talks about theology, I like the way she talks about the world, politics, all that shit. And I'm like, ah, interesting. And then, I don't know, a month later, whatever it was, it wasn't a long time, it was pretty quickly, I was like, damn it to hell, I think I like this girl.

And then I started actively pursuing her and she was still like, oh, okay, I guess he's warming up, but I'm not interested in dating. I just started college or I'm about to finish college, whatever the hell she was doing. And I'm okay with being just friends.

And I was like, we're not friends. We have been on seven dates. We are boyfriend and girlfriend.

You're in the trial period. Yeah, and she's like, but we haven't made it official. I'm like, made it official? I buy all your shit and drive two hours to see you.

I would not do that for a girlfriend, like a friend who's just a girl, unless there was some kind of mitigating circumstances that forced me to, like I was so lonely and it was the only friend I had in the world. Like, we're freaking dating. And then she finally came around and we were dating.

And then it was a pretty quick engagement. I was like, after a few months of that, I think all of it took about nine months. After about nine months of knowing her, I was like, yeah, okay, I'm convinced that this woman is for me.

And I did not even, my knee did not even hit the ground before she said yes. I was like, all right, well, ruin that, thanks. And- Did you spell her name right when you wrote the card? I did, I did.

I remember this story. This is funny. That makes one of us.

Okay. Jonathan over here trying to change my name. That's so romantic.

Very, very, very Jane Austen romance. That's why I think I love this book. And I don't get why people say that this is like a woman's book.

I mean, I get a part of it. Yeah, honestly, I feel like this book is not marketed well enough. Society, culture.

Because I'm thoroughly enjoying the book. Yeah, because I get it why women are attracted to this book or why it appeals to women. And I think we said it in the previous recording, I'll say it here in case it got mixed because we've got technical issues.

I think some women like it because of the romance, the gag part of it, and they don't understand what the hell's going on. And that's fine, whatever. You can like a book for whatever reason you want.

And a lot of women like it because it provides good commentary on what they know the history is and maybe how they feel about marriage today, certain expectations. So, but, so having said that, I think everybody should read Jane Eyre. Jane Austen or Jane Eyre? Like this is a funny book.

Jane Austen. They should read both. Everybody should read Jane Austen.

What is it like to lock a woman in a room? And then what is it like for women in the Victorian era? Yeah, I think everybody should read it, even if it's just for shits and giggles because it's written well. It's a funny story. It's a good story.

We should come up with the SideQuest book club must read list. We already have that. And if our audience goes to Instagram, they'll see that.

I guess I didn't go to Instagram. Anyway, clearly I don't run our Instagram. That's not clear to anybody else at the moment.

It is now. I want to circle back. Shira, pull your book up and read the first line of the book because we're talking about Mr. Darcy.

He has everything. Read the book. Read the first line.

First line of the book. Oh yes, the first line of the book is legendary. It is the truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife.

So I read that line and I thought, okay, that's a pretty good line. But because I'm going through the book for the first time, I, and I love a good first line. Man, if you can nail the first line, oh, it's just primo, right? This first line sets up the context for the whole book.

She deviates from it, not once, not a single time. And that is just good writing. I don't care who you are.

It's good writing. I know exactly what to expect. And then I know what the context is and I know where we're going.

And okay, I mean, I kind of assumed Elizabeth and Darcy would get together. I haven't finished the book yet, but we're speaking about he has everything except a wife. And so it's like, okay, cool.

That first line literally tells us, okay, this guy's going after a wife. Now we're seeing all the societal stuff play out as well, but that stood out to me. Yeah, she sets it all up.

I mean, even the sarcasm in that one line, she's like, oh, if you're a man with money, you must be wanting a wife. It never, Darcy never explicitly says that he's looking for a wife. What do men really know anyway? He does.

He does. He knows a lot. He knows a lot.

But yeah, I love, I want to talk about like their time, those first interactions. Let's talk about the ball at Meritan. This is where Darcy and Elizabeth meet and they're at the ball and everyone's being introduced because there was also a ton of protocol behind who could introduce whom and this and that.

And so it was all based on rank. So Darcy could not introduce himself. So he could introduce himself to Jane.

Jane could not introduce herself to Darcy because he was of higher rank than she was because he has more money. So there would need to be a middle man and it would likely have to be a man of higher rank than her entire family to be able to have a proper introduction. And there's another scene later on in the book in this first volume where you see the breaking of rank and it is considered absolutely disrespectful and is one of the reasons why Darcy winds up telling Mr. Bingley, like you can not marry into this family.

These people have no decorum. But so she's finally introduced and then they suggest this character, Mr. Phillips, I think says, hey, Darcy, you should dance with Lizzie here. She's a great partner.

And he basically says, no, I don't want to. Oh, actually, sorry, I'm getting confused. No, it's Mr. Bingley who comes up to Darcy and he's like, what are you doing standing around like an idiot? You need to come out to the dance floor.

Look, there's Lizzie, Jane's sister. Why don't you ask her to dance? She's super pretty. And then that's when he says, she's barely tolerable, but not pretty enough, not pretty enough for me to stand up with.

And Lizzie overhears this and she's absolutely insulted that he would say something like that about her. And thus begins the tension between them throughout the entire novel until the very end, basically. Yeah, and I think what exacerbates that issue is that cousin of his who lies or tells half-truths about how he was treated by Darcy.

So that cements in Lizzie's head that Darcy's just an a-hole. Well, first of all, he didn't want to dance with me. He could have faked it, right? Like, just dance with the lady.

You don't have to make a comment about it. And then obviously he has to be an asshole because he treats his cousin so poorly. Left his poor little cousin all destitute.

Whatever prejudice she had towards him, kind of the fire for that was started or was kindled by his comment that she overheard. And then definitely it was a whole swell after she gets the false information. But for her, that's what, yeah, of course he would do this to your cousin.

He doesn't even have the decorum to dance with a woman like a normal gentleman. Yeah. Bastard.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and there are some other things going on here, right? And you kind of piece this together.

These are like little cultural things, but they're at a country ball, right? They're in the country. There are already not enough men. There's the ratio is off.

There aren't enough men to dance with all the ladies. So if you're a man and you see that, then you try to dance with as many ladies as possible because they all want to dance. And nobody wants to be the girl sitting in the corner who's nobody's asking you to dance, right? That's considered rude.

So the fact that he knows this, it's apparent, and he still says, I'm not dancing with anybody. He's basically saying, F you society. I get to do whatever I want.

I don't care what people think. I don't need to dance with anybody that I don't want to. These women are ugly.

They're uneducated, blah, blah, blah. I'm not doing that. So yeah, he's the asshole here.

And that's a bit of his prejudice because this is the country. They're in a provincial town. So these are hillbillies to him.

They're like, okay, these are hillbillies with some money, but that's about it. Yeah, absolutely. But it's funny that in this society that even the hillbillies play that game, right? And the game meaning they had to find husbands for their wives, otherwise crap will hit the fan and play the whole Victorian decorum and the right way to hold the fork and the right way to walk.

And why did you get six inches of mud walking to your house where your sister was sick? Huh, huh, huh, huh. Like all that. I think Darcy, if I can come to his defense again, I think Darcy's looking at these hillbillies going, the hell is wrong with you all? I have everything you want and it's boring and you guys are like pigs looking for truffles.

Like, I don't know, like shut up. That's how I envision, if I can put my own thoughts into Darcy's head, that's how I envision him looking at all of this. Yeah.

So while reading this, I can't help but notice that this has a huge connection and the connection just seems like the right word, yeah. To Bridgerton, right? Like Bridgerton seems like the modern version of Pride and Prejudice where we've taken something that people loved with this Victorian era and the balls and the dancing and the hubbub and we threw some grotesque, you know, raunchy sex in it and now it's, you know, the new version of Pride and Prejudice. Just don't show Mrs. Bingley.

Don't show Mrs. Bingley. Now she'll probably love it. Or Bennett, Bennett, Bennett.

Nevermind, Bingley. Well, you know, you did it, this is your child, you gotta provide for us. Yeah, I meant Bennett, I ruined my own joke, nevermind, carry on.

Yeah, it's definitely like the modern version. By the way, we've been calling it Victorian era, where we, it's not Victorian era. I didn't know how to correct you guys.

It's Georgian era, yeah. Victorian era is just after that. Yeah, but everyone calls it Victorian.

Okay. People that don't know call it Victorian. It's Georgian.

Yes, I know. Because I've had to look. As is Bridgerton.

Right, yeah, they're all the same. But we call them, as a society, we call them Victorian era unless you're studied in it. People are like, oh, that's the Victorian era.

It's still wrong, doesn't matter. Ciara, this is a conversation I have with him all the time about stupid shit, it's still wrong. That was wrong, and we shouldn't call it the Victorian era.

People are gonna think that we're just idiots over here talking about Jane Austen and the Victorian era. No, not welcome to the internet. Do everything you can to 100%.

Don't be that guy who doesn't see. We're gonna go down this road. Welcome to, this is my other wife, Slava.

Listen to the woman in your life, Jonathan, you are wrong. Excellence is doing the best you can at the current state with all of your understanding and all of your skillsets. That's what we do every episode.

We bring excellence. Yeah, sometimes we get stuff wrong. Welcome to being human.

It's fine. And I bring the excellence because I've just corrected the group on the right. Two things can exist at the same time and both be true.

What you just said and what me and Ciara are saying. Fucking idiots, like we just were, kept calling the Victorian era when it's actually the Georgian era. We were wrong.

Doesn't mean that, oh, well, everybody in the internet is always wrong. Like, no, that's it. Two things can exist.

We were wrong. We try our best and we were freaking dumb. I'm still gonna call it the Victorian era because colloquially people understand that.

I forbid it. What'd you say? I said, I forbid it. You are not allowed to, you have now been corrected.

It is the Georgian era and we have to call it what it is. And three things can't be right because calling it something that's not because you have a population is. Oh, I didn't say right.

I said coexist. You said two things can coexist. I said three things can coexist.

And both be right. I didn't say coexist by itself. And both be right independent of each other.

And I'm selling you wrong. Ciara is backing me up. I know, even if she's being silent for the sake of being a polite guest.

Don't call it something it's not just because the rest of society calls it something it's not. But here's the thing. And I will die on this hill.

Communication with an other, the other, whoever the other is. So in this case, it's the audience. If you're communicating, well, it's the Georgian era and they're confused.

Then you've not had a conversation because they're confused. And sitting here and. Front load information, front load it.

Say normally people call this the Victorian era. This is what I tell you to do all the time though. I say, hey, can you define that for the audience? And you say, what are they stupid? I'm not going to define that for the audience.

And so now you're flip flopping on me. You're flipping. I'm not.

No, no, no, no. You're flopping. You're like, well, you should define it.

This is literally what I'm arguing about. I asked you, hey, can you define the fear? I'm not going to do that. You're they're dummies.

And I'm like, OK, but this is the thing. Colloquially, if you know that someone doesn't have the same level of education or the same vernacular, then you go, hey, I'm going to meet them where they're at. And I'm going to use their vernacular.

It's not about being right. It's about having a conversation. And I will die on this hill.

Also, most people can't name another era other than the Victorian era. Everything before 1932. How many eras can you name go? Which is probably part of the problem.

But there's, yeah, there's, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Any Jane Austen fans will know that it is not the Victorian era.

So for our listeners, we have corrected this. We know it is the Georgian era. This has been corrected.

And now you're a Jane Austen fan, because you know that. And now, actually, that is how you know that you're a Jane Austen fan, if you know this one piece of information. Because for most people, it's like, oh, Victorian era, Victorian era, Victorian era.

That's the only era they know. Every, you know, British literature novel out there is Victorian era. Yeah.

It's not, it was a long era, but this doesn't fall within those parameters. Well, you know what I say? Let them eat cake, which is actually Victorian era. Not part of the Georgian era, by the way, or the Victorian era.

Anyway. Okay, so yeah, let's talk about Mr. Wickham. So Elizabeth is walking through the country.

They're going to the little town, and they meet this very charming stranger. He's a soldier. He looks wonderful in his regimentals.

He's attractive. And then they all converge in the same little area. Mr. Bingley, Mr. Darcy, the sisters, Jane, you know, and there's like obvious tension between Mr. Wickham and Mr. Darcy.

And because Lizzie is such an astute observer, she notices this, and she's already, we know this, she's looking for trash on Darcy, because she already hates his guts. Yep. So she is like, well, what's going on here? Mr. Wickham takes the opportunity.

He hasn't even been asked, and he says, I'm sure you noticed this interaction between us. And then she's like, okay, now I can ask. And he tells her the story.

If you're reading it for the first time, you're like, oh, poor Mr. Wickham. He's been hurt by Darcy. And the story is, so Wickham is lived in Pemberley, which is where he grew up, where Mr. Darcy grew up.

His father was the steward of the Pemberley property, the estate, and Mr. Wickham's father dies, and Mr. Darcy Sr. decides, because he loves this kid, they grew up together, decides I'm gonna take this kid in as my child, and when I die, he will inherit some money. And what winds up happening is, in reality, that Mr. Wickham sort of takes advantage of that, and we find out later he's not a very nice guy. But he spins the story and says, actually, Mr. Darcy cheated me out of my inheritance, and now I'm a poor foot soldier, and poor me.

And of course, Lizzie eats this up, and she's like, I knew it, Mr. Darcy's an asshole, this totally lines up. Yeah, I don't know, what do you guys think? When I read it, I kind of fell for it. I was like, oh, there's more to Darcy.

So, because I didn't really buy him being an asshole for not wanting to dance, I understood why the characters in World thought he was an asshole for doing that. But then when this came up, I was like, hmm. And I kind of put that asshole not caring about stuff aside, I'm like, okay, maybe the two are connected, maybe they're not.

But by itself, the story that dude is saying, Wickham, I'm like, huh, this does add a layer to the character. Maybe he's not a nice guy. It may be the other asshole part of him, maybe that's not just him not caring.

So I fell for it, too. And then as things started unfolding, even before it became apparent that he was lying, I was like, wait a minute, nah, that can't be it. It made me think about it as it went on.

But the first few sentences, I was there with Lizzie, I'm like, yeah, girl, forget Darcy. I was not bamboozled the way that you were. Because when I hear that story, oh, well, I was part of the help and the father of the estate loved me, even if that's true that he did love him, there's no way that someone is gonna give the firstborn son's right to the entire estate to a servant.

That's not gonna happen. Well, that's not what happens. He gives him some money.

He says, I'll give you a living, but he's not gonna keep the estate. I mean, that always will go to you. And Wickham is saying that he got screwed completely on the portion that he was supposed to get, not the whole estate.

There's a small portion of it. Again, language barrier here, because I thought when he said that, he's like, I was supposed to get the whole estate. And I was like, absolutely not.

No one would ever, this is such a bold faced lie. Like no one would do that. Like, oh, I'm gonna take from my own blood and I'm just gonna give it to you.

Yeah, okay. No, no, no, no, no. That's not what the agreement.

He was going to inherit something, but not everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so the book we're reading is in English, Jonathan.

Difficult English at that. So I'm rereading this book. So I used to read this book every single year, every year and I haven't in a while, but the first time I read, the first time that I read Pride and Prejudice, I was in high school and now I'm reading it.

And I'm like, how did I read this in high school? My English must've been a lot better back then because I have no idea what these people are saying. I'm literally using chat GPT as I'm reading some of these. Like, what does this mean? You know, typing in the sentence.

So yeah, it can be a little hard to follow sometimes, but yeah, the point is he was not going to inherit everything, just a living, which I don't think that they ever specify how much the living is. Well, 4,000 pounds is like enough to live on. So he probably wasn't gonna inherit, I don't know, whatever, like a thousand.

Who knows, yeah. Still, the fact of the matter, when you're spinning a story telling me that you got bamboozled out of a large sum of an inheritance and then it's like, oh, well, who bamboozled you? It's like, well, the firstborn son. I still don't believe you.

All right, maybe it's not the whole estate, that's fine. I still don't believe you. It's like, well, why would someone give it to you? I don't care if the whole sob story, like he adopted me like a son.

No one's gonna adopt you like a son when they have their own son. So there's a line. You might feel that way.

There might be an emotional connection, that's fine. But when it comes to money, and it does all over, in every culture, always, there's a line that you're gonna take care of your blood first. So I wasn't bamboozled, not me.

The first time I read it, I absolutely fell for it. And I was like, ooh, this is, I haven't put everything together yet. I'm like, oh, who's this charming character? I even was like attracted to him.

I'm thinking like, oh, something's gonna happen here. We're gonna talk about this off-air. What's gonna happen here? Because he seems forthcoming and genuine, and she obviously likes him.

And you start the story, you're kind of on Lizzie's side in the sense that you believe her, right? You're viewing the entire story from her perspective. And so you're already on her side. And so I'm thinking, oh, this guy seems great.

This is gonna be great. We'll see what happens. And when I find out what happens later, I'm just like, no, Mr. Wickham.

I'm like totally shocked. Yeah, see, Jonathan, you're not buying it because you already went into it with a bias thinking that he was getting the whole estate. Obviously, that's a lie.

And he's not getting a generous portion of the estate. He's getting this much, enough to live on, which means he's getting something that Darcy wouldn't have missed if he lost 10 times that amount. That's why it's believable.

You already, you can't say you weren't bamboozled because you came at it completely misunderstanding the situation. English didn't make sense to me. That's fine.

But I still wasn't bamboozled, but because of how I understood the context. So, true. Okay, but, okay, but you had it wrong.

So you weren't bamboozled because you couldn't read the words or didn't understand the words you were reading. I said that. What's the point? But then you went back and then you said, oh, but I still wasn't bamboozled even if it was a portion of the estate.

Because I still don't think that he'd give him that much because you don't give help that much money. But it wasn't that much money. That's the point.

That's why it's believable. That's why Lizzie fell for it because it wasn't that much money. We should read more old books.

Hell yeah, we should. So people, can I just, I just want to state some obvious facts here real quick. So Slava and Chiara both speak English plus additional languages.

I, on the other hand, speak English. And it is I who cannot seem to understand the English books. And we've never had this much disagreements on the show.

So if you made it this far, it wasn't this heated. And we're still friends. We'll come back for episode two of this thing.

This is how Jonathan and I talk all the time and we walk away loving each other. So it's all good. We were supposed to record this yesterday and I'm just radio signing.

And then this morning I get up and just like berate Slava. And then he's like, I disagree with you. And this is before we go to church.

And I'm just arguing with him. And he's like, I understand what you're saying but I just disagree. And I'm not a shyster like you are.

And I'm like, okay. And I put a laugh emoji on there. Cause I'm just like.

I didn't say that exactly. But anyway, this is what 20 years of friendship does for you. And the funny thing is, you know.

In front of our editor, actually in two. We don't do this in private. We only do this in public.

So one of our friends, we're like, did she mute notifications? Because we haven't heard from you. And she's like, and he actually, he was like, yeah, I muted notifications. You guys are like arguing for like two days.

But that's why the show is so good. And that's what people don't get. Yeah, and that's why I honestly love Jonathan because he's not Mrs. Bennett or whatever her name is.

Every time I say something like, no, that's a shysty way of doing things. He doesn't take it personally because I don't mean it personally. I'm not literally calling him a shyster.

Just, we were debating on an approach to a marketing thing. And I was like, nah, we shouldn't even do that. He was like, no, but they'll do this and they'll do this.

And I'm like, I don't like that kind of way. And here's a little like marketing background for folks is Slava comes from a corporate marketing background and I come from a startup marketing background. And those are two extremely different places but SideQuest Book Club is a startup.

So we got to err on my side. So anyway, now that I've won that argument, Shara, back to your book. All right, let's get back to the book.

Let's get back to Pride and Prejudice. But we actually ran out of time because you guys were too busy bickering the whole time. So we- Don't hold me responsible for Slava's actions.

So we will jump back into Pride and Prejudice next week. Please come back and listen to the rest of the story. We'll be covering volume two.

There's a lot of really good stuff that happens in volume two, guys. I can't wait to continue chatting about this with you. Yeah.

And you're all now fans of Jane Austen because he knows the Georgian era, not Victorian era. Yes, well, that is something. Be sure to subscribe on YouTube so that you never miss an episode.