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Greg and Michael are joined by Marty Friedel to discuss speaking at conferences and overcoming shyness.
Creators & Guests
Host
What is Ripples?
Greg and Michael discuss the thrill, the uncertainty, and all the other emotions that come with putting yourself out there and never really knowing where or when the ripples you send out into the world will overlap again.
Hey. I'm Marty Friedel, and, I'm here on the Ripples podcast today being joined by Greg and Michael.
Greg:Hey, Marty. How are you going?
Michael:Hey, Marty. Happy to be here.
Greg:How you guys doing today? This is fun. How are you, Marty?
Michael:This is good. We're going on going well.
Marty:At least at least Michael and I are on the same time zone now, you know, cross cross the cross a little bit further west and, yeah, now we've gotta figure out how to book meetings with everyone else around the country.
Michael:That's right.
Greg:Yeah. It's not too bad having an Australian guest. We've had some, odd hours that we've had to put other people through because Michael and I won't get up at 3 in the morning to do a podcast.
Michael:Well, it's it's not so much that I want. It's that my daughter my daughter's bedroom is on, like, the wall over there, on the other side of that wall. So I can't really talk in the middle of the night. I did, I did a podcast, like, a year or 2 ago with Matt Salfa. And, like, I picked up at 8 o'clock at night or something like that, or 9 o'clock, and he could tell straight away.
Michael:He's, like, do we need to record this at a different time? I was, like, I mean, we don't have to, but if you, if you can make it work at a different time, that would be good. It's the you never know.
Marty:It's the thing that we the other side of the world. So we're a Statamic partner as well, and there's partner calls every month. And most of the partners are on the other side of the world, whether it's in Europe or the US. So, sometime the the the most recent one was 11:30 PM, and that was the that was leading into a later later start the following morning. But, sometimes they're convenient for us.
Marty:Yeah.
Michael:So we have Marty on. You mentioned that you are a Stademy partner, and, we had you speak at Laracon AU last year on Statamic because as as much as statamic has been in and around the Laravel community for, basically, since the very beginning, really, with Jack and and his team, other than Jack, I don't think many people really speak about it. It doesn't really get a lot of airtime at, at Laracon. So I thought it'd be good to to kind of give it a bit more space to to come out. And so that's that was, you know, why we had you come and speak last year.
Michael:And that's really where our sort of relationship started, probably this time ish last year, when you when you put your submission in. And so, I thought we would get you on onto Ripples to to kind of talk a little bit about your journey and and kind of where where you came from and and how you kind of got to a position to submit to speak at Laracon and then, you know, where you're at now on the other side of that?
Marty:I've been doing this sort of stuff for such a long time, so I think I started writing code. We're looking at over 20 something years now that I've been doing this sort of stuff. And, technology shifted and changed a lot over time. And I think the big one was I was very, I think I was very hesitant of change. You know, I knew Laravel existed out there, but was stuck with some, old code that I just couldn't shake and, you know, kept doing things.
Marty:Now I was looking back, I now see it's a very inconvenient way to do things. And, yeah. So it was just before COVID hit that we, you know, started doing some more Laravel dev, and we were actually having our carpet change one day. And, I was sitting on a chair in the corner of the room thinking, I've gotta find some sort of content management system and and found Statimic. And, it it just it ticked all of the boxes that we needed to do because often, we don't like to well, we don't use templates for for any of our sites.
Marty:Everything that we do is always gonna be custom designed. And I like that statem, it gives us the freedom and the flexibility to do whatever we need to do in whatever way we need to do it. So there's no so many different ways to to skin a cat. Sorry. I'll make sure that Zach, who's sitting on my lap, doesn't hear that.
Marty:But it's given us a lot of freedom and a lot of flexibility with how we approach things, and it it's made for a much more cohesive, development experience. And I think that's really important too is that, you know, you're not fighting with the tools that you're using because the tools are actually working really well for you and allow you to do some really cool stuff. And and I think it would it took me a while to see the light because I, you know, I think you're very comfortable with what you're doing, and and you don't like to rock the boat. But rocking the boat in this instance has been the best thing for, I guess, for our business, for my day to day work and sanity. I I I would say I lost my head due to bad tech decisions, but I think genetics also plays a part of that too.
Marty:Yeah. I I think I I mean, I started working, professionally and then also worked at the University of South Australia for a while, and did some, prac supervision and tutoring there and even did some lecturing, in the School of Communications at one point, around interactive multimedia. And so that was kinda cool. And for years, I've just been praddling away on a blog of different things that I've learned or found. And and I've always found that something may seem obvious for people, but you don't know it's obvious until you actually know it.
Marty:And if I've been, you know, writing code for such a long time and still having these questions that have been unanswered, some of the that that basically inspires where these blog posts come from, and and what's being published. And, it was this time last year, we were actually heading off to the US for Flakam, which was the Statamic conference. It's not a conference, which was in North Carolina. And we you and I had spoken, Michael, just before that and, spoke to to Jack McDade over in, Flatcamp as well. And, it was great to float some ideas around about what can be useful for the community to hear about statemic because I think so many people are a little, confused when they first start looking at it because it can be everything to everyone in so many different ways.
Marty:But getting over that speed bump is kind of the big, the big thing for people. And and I think that my my past with working at the university, with writing blogs, I've spoken at at Joomla Day. Again, this was pre COVID. People tell me I've got a nice voice, so, clearly someone likes listening to it at least. I hear that with some of the classes I teach at the the side job as well at the gym.
Marty:So, yeah, it it's it's been a a long journey to get here, but the last couple of years have just been fantastic from a a work point of view, of feeling sane with the sort of things that we're doing and and how easy we're able to do some really cool things both in the Laravel space and, by extension, the static space given it's built on top of
Greg:Yeah. So, I think, you and I met at the tech check-in at Laracon AU.
Marty:In Sydney. Yeah.
Greg:Both of us, I think, fair to say a little bit apprehensive about jumping on stage. I don't know if we helped each other out or made each other feel even worse. No.
Marty:I I I think it's good. It's it's it's funny because, I so I teach some classes at the gym, and I've got no problem with public speaking and no problem with getting up and and being in front of people. But this was just so far out of my comfort zone because I feel that in the the group fitness space, when I'm teaching a class, I I'm the one that's in control. I know exactly what's going on. But suddenly, yeah, being not only a room full of people that I don't know, but also being filmed knowing it's going to be watched by people around the world later.
Marty:It play plays on your head a little bit. It's, it's a little intimidating. But, you know, the the the hype music that we had to pick. You know? I heard my song start.
Marty:I'm like, mhmm. Mhmm. Yep. Here we go. Let's do it.
Marty:And, someone said to me afterwards, oh, you're actually speaking really quickly. And I thought, yes. I was. And, then he said, oh, I I know why because I got to the end of the talk, and I realized why you were speaking so quickly. But, yeah, it was a combination of nerves and knowing that I had so much to get through in half an hour.
Marty:But it was, you know, it was nice to be able to share that sort of experience, with with all the speakers. And, you know, I think, Greg, you and I had some really good chats even the night before at the the dinner beforehand, which I think showed a lot of similarities between where we were in that sort of space too.
Greg:Yeah. I think both of us, is it fair to say, veterans of the PHP sort of tech space and, probably had a lot of very similar experiences in the lead up to our career. I mean, for me, it was, you know, playing around with software for more than 20 years, but now only just starting to tell people about it is For example, a lot of people these days who are just starting out, and the first thing they're doing is telling people that they're like, what they're doing, which I think that that's probably a product of of the younger cohort growing up in the sort of Instagram age and the sort of attention economy whereas, I don't know about you, Marty, but for me, it was, you didn't really talk much about your job. You just went off and did it. And, yeah, for me, that that pivot towards being more public is probably more more nerve wracking in a lot of ways than jumping up on stage.
Greg:But I I feel you about standing in front of, like, 400 people and speaking well, 350 people and speaking. It was, I did the the the thought of it being recording didn't actually cross my mind until you mentioned it. I'm like, yeah. That's really good. I'm just getting flashbacks.
Greg:But, yeah, I mean, also, I I guess, there's there's a lot of people who've paid a lot of money to come out and see the conference, and you kind of wanna make sure that you're giving good value and that you're, you know, having, enough content to make it worth their while, but also not too much content that you don't ever overload them. And, is a big release of energy once you finish doing it. Because, I mean, it's it's not just 30 minutes. It's, you know, months of preparation.
Marty:I think that you you've hit a really interesting point there with with regards to content because there are so many, so many of the talks, I saw the the titles for them in the lead up to Laracon and thought, oh, that one would be interesting or that one I don't really think is applicable to me. But sitting down in the audience for for everyone's talk in the lead up to to mine, they were all fantastic, covering different topics that, you know, if you were to be given a list of things to say, here, go and read about this, some of them wouldn't have been things that I would have considered reading or learning more about. But all of the presenters were, so engaging in their own way with the content that they were providing. And regardless of what I do day to day, everyone's talk was brilliant. And, I mean, even in some of the local meetups as well, the one of the recent, Adelaide meetups, had a talk that about something I'd never heard of before, and it was it was really, really interesting to to learn something new that, is something you don't really see in the Laravel space so much.
Marty:If you're in just doing PHP space, yeah, you you might have been a little bit more aware of it. But, you know, learning and learning about different things that you may not already be aware of, I think, has been really valuable. And I think something I'm trying to open myself up to a lot more is it's not just about this is what I've gotta do. Let's get this job done. Move on to the next thing, but also open up to different different technologies, different ideas, different, concepts because everyone has so much information to give, and you don't know what you don't know, until you hear something and, you know, just provide provided, I think, so much inspiration for taking on new ideas even this long in my career as well.
Michael:Yeah. I think that's, that's an interesting point and and something from my perspective as an organizer is always a tricky balance because there are, you know, as Greg said, 300 odd people in the audience. And you're trying to find this cross section that goes through the majority of them, even if not directly related to what they do in their day job or what they think that they're interested in, you know, you can sort of stay within, like, this medium, you know, either side of it, where even though it's not directly related, it can still be an interesting thing to hear about. And so, you know, I've I've seen not only from AU, but I've seen for Europe and and US, not so much India. I don't, like, I don't really hear too much about that.
Michael:They kind of exist in a vacuum. But for certainly for Europe and US, I I do hear that people are like, oh, that talk's not interesting for me or, you know, I I wouldn't do that. But then, on the other side of the conference and the other side of those talks, you you hear the similar sentiment. Oh, no. That that actually was an interesting thing because I think human beings and and us, you know, as tech people, even though something is not directly related to us, we can still be either challenged by it or informed by it.
Michael:We can learn things that that we weren't expecting to learn. And so this is why we kind of publish the schedule before we publish who the speakers are, because it kind of has a bit more conversation, a bit more thought about, do I wanna learn about this subject, rather than who is delivering the topic. And that makes it a little bit easier. It's a little bit less pressure for those speakers because, you know, there's no expectation that, you know, I'm going to see this speaker present, I'm going to see this topic is is a little bit different. And that also helps, I think, the speakers to kind of work on their talks in a bubble, knowing that, like, they don't have this outside pressure.
Michael:They're not gonna see any commentary around their topics or anything like that. People will guess and and and whatnot, but being able to kind of have that intrigue from one side and and having the speakers kind of working in in a little bit of safety and and secrecy even is is an interesting thing. So but, getting getting up on stage, you know, as a first time speaker or as a 100 time speaker, it's it's interesting. I think, you know, you as a fitness instructor, you are giving someone else's talk. You know?
Michael:You're you're you're presenting. Like, this is the class that if you go to any of a 100 or or a1000 or whatever, studios around the world, they're all being taught the same thing. Whereas you getting up on the stage, telling your story from your perspective in front of a crowd of people is a very different person.
Marty:I think it's it's it's really interesting that, the connection there with the group fitness world because you should be able to go to a class, like a body pump class anywhere around the world and get the same workout. And while you may get the same physical workout, there's still a lot of personality that goes in. And I think that even goes for, the the the speakers at Laracon or any conference too.
Greg:The you could
Marty:you know, I could give my material to someone else to get them to present, but they may not have my same same sort of nuances or sense of humor and personality. And I think that there's so much individuality that comes up as well, that there's still a lot of freshness out there and and trying to make it unique and engaging, whether, again, that's a group fitness thing or whether that's a a tech based thing or just a speaking in general thing. Making it engaging for people, but also still being true to yourself and the way that that you would be speaking and connecting. And someone's actually mentioned to me in the past, when it comes to writing, she she's now a client. And the reason we got the job over someone else who was actually, cheaper than we were was because she liked the fact that she could hear me reading the proposal.
Marty:So she could pretend she heard my voice, and she could hear the words coming out of my mouth. And I think that sort of personality and individualism, is is really important regardless of the topic too. You know, it's, yeah, it's it's it's hard getting up there and being trying to be funny without trying to be funny, if that makes sense. Because you wanna be engaging and not dry, but not have to feel forced. And not script your jokes.
Marty:Yeah.
Michael:Oh, oh, that I know. The the amount of jokes that I scripted, for my welcome, and when you when you script them and you say them over and over and over and over again as you practice, it it's a very different thing to giving it to an audience, and you kind of hope. Right? You kind of hope that the joke lands with the audience. Because by the time you give that, you know, talk, before you deliver that line, before you deliver that joke, no one has heard it.
Michael:You know? No. And you've heard it a 1000 times, and so it's just worn off on you. So I think it's it's important that, like, yeah, practice and practice and practice and practice. But remember, while you're hearing it for the 1000th time, the audience is gonna hear it for the first time.
Michael:Typically, once, they might go and watch the recording after, but they're hearing it for the first time. So practicing the delivery and the nuance of, you know, how the words come out and and the and where the pauses are and where the inflection is on all of these things. Stick with it. Practice it until you're sick of hearing it. Because when you get up on stage and the lights are in your face and the audience is sat in front of you, If you can reach into that place in your mind, where you have practice and you know exactly what you're gonna say and how you say it and, you know, all of that kind of stuff, then the fluidity of that presentation is is what people will remember, you know, on top of the content.
Michael:If you go out and you've only practised it 2 or 3 times, and you've never given that talk to I know that the the speakers in Brisbane all got together a week or 2 before the conference last year, and they kind of, shared their talks, they got feedback from each other and things like that. It's, you know, you, you wanna, kind of, get that feedback. But at the end of the day, it's the practice that is going to help you deliver that. You know what you're delivering at that point. Go out there and deliver it.
Michael:Don't don't be sort of afraid of the audience. Because for the most part, beyond the first 2 or 3 rows, you don't see too far back into the auditorium. You just see light. I think that that one thing
Marty:I forgot to mention there is the countdown timer. If you're someone who's trying to keep the time, having having this big number right in your eyesight, counting down, and you think, oh, man. Halfway through my time, but I'm not halfway through my talk yet. Yeah. That's the other pressure to deal with.
Marty:Yeah. You know, in the in the group fitness world, when we when you start, and go through your initial training, they do talk about scripting, and it's about scripting cues. And and for a new instructor, I think it's really important to have that level of scripting, because there are things you need to say from a safety point of view, from a choreography point of view, especially if it's a pre pre choreographed program, which is great. But in the real world, I feel that that doesn't actually flow well. And I think that even comes back to when I was working at, UniSA, where reading notes off of a slide, well, the audience can read the slide.
Marty:You wanna make sure the slide is a companion to what you're doing rather than, reading word for word. And and it's the same thing with, in the group fitness world. Every class I teach, I'll have a slightly different focus. There'll be a slightly different topic. So it might be on, you know, it might be on timing.
Marty:It might be on range. It might be on muscular activation, and that could be track specific or throughout the class. But then the next week when I go and deliver the exact same class with the exact same music, I'm not using the exact same cues. I'm changing the way and the focus and the the the purpose of the words so that it is keeping it fresh Mhmm. And keeping it, I guess, digestible as well is probably the other tricky part.
Marty:You wanna make sure that whatever is being spoken is not too overwhelming for someone who's brand new to whatever it is, exercise, tech talks, that people are able to understand it and and find those bite sized pieces out of what you're saying.
Michael:Yeah. Yeah. 100%. That is, you know, removing the superfluous words, removing the things that don't need to be there to say the same things Just just like that. Yeah.
Michael:Purposely twice. Just like that is a perfect example. But, also, rehearsing and going over and over and over and over again because you know like, you've effectively memorized lines at this point, and the delivery, and you're getting up on stage in a theater is like a performing art at this point. It really helps to hone in the message. We've got the the Laracon AU venue conference event details announcement coming out this Wednesday, or last Wednesday by the time anyone hears this podcast.
Michael:So you will have already heard slash seen it. And I did 58 takes of what ended up being a 15 second segment of video in the final in the final take, like, the final production. But 58 takes of scripting on the fly, of forgetting how to speak words in English, things like that. But at the end of it, like, whatever take it was that ended up being used, that, like, that is the most concise version of what you're presenting. And I think I think maybe Greg and I, we spoke about this or something, or or I saw it somewhere, where for, like, every one minute of final presentation that you that you have in your talk, in your presentation, whatever, you're spending an hour, I think, on on refining that.
Michael:So for a 30 minute talk, you're doing 30 hours of you're doing 30 hours of, of practice towards that talk kind of thing. So, you know, there is there is a lot that goes into it. Don't, you know, don't don't think that for a conference of this size and scale that you are gonna just turn up on the day and give the talk. You're gonna have like, these speakers are practicing. They're giving the talk either at other events or they're shopping at at meet ups or they're practicing it with their friends or or whatever else that, you know, by the time they get on stage, they have invested a lot of time and time.
Greg:I think to the practice thing, like, and I don't know if you have any similar thoughts on this, Marty, but one of my, big fears was forgetting the work when I got on stage. And that fear kind of came true. Like, I I don't actually remember being on stage. I was I completely blanked. I'm not the only one.
Greg:But the the fact that there was so much prep that went into it. And you mentioned the timer. Like, I had in all of my speaker notes a, time index that sort of said you should be at this point on the clock by the time you get to this point. So I could constantly, like, check-in with myself that I was, like, on schedule, that I wasn't rushing through it. So I'd take moments to slow down or moments where I could speed up.
Greg:And I had markings throughout the the speaker notes that effectively said you could drop this in the moment if you're behind. The amount of prep you have to do, and some of that might be some of that might be just overcompensating for for the worst. But, you know, it's the amount of practice and preparation that you have to do to make sure that you give, perhaps on the flawless, but as as flawless as possible, presentation. This is why I can't believe people who do live live coding on stage. I think that's, like, that just takes everything that makes this hard and makes it even Yeah.
Michael:Like and, like, not even a little bit harder. Yeah.
Greg:For sure.
Michael:10 times harder, a 100 times harder. I think even with, like, time coding stuff, if you find and and this is something that only gets better with practice, unless you're like a natural at at public speaking. Marty, you you rushed and you, you know, speaking quickly. If you've got, like, Greg had time codes in your speaker notes, so this is where I should be up to at this time, and you find that you're ahead of what you need to be up to, take a second to look at the audience, to let Mhmm. Like, to find moments of what you've said, to just let it sit.
Michael:You know, you don't you don't have to talk for 30 minutes, especially if you're ahead. You can just stop. You can let it simmer. You can pick up your water bottle and have a sip, you know. Everyone no one's gonna think twice of the fact that I, you know, been talking for 10 minutes here and needs to have a have a drink, or she needs to have a drink, or whoever needs to have a drink.
Michael:You know, there there are these things that you pick up over a long period of practice and public speaking that you can kind of just work in to to what you're doing. There are lots of ways of creatively hiding the fact that you've lost your place or that you are ahead of schedule. If you're behind schedule, there's less to it. You might just cut bits of your talk out, you know. But, but all of this comes down to, to practicing those things, you know, and and getting into a good space for being ready to go.
Michael:And, like, once once we lock in our speaker lineup, we've got, like, a Telegram chat that goes for the AU speakers. And we started that quite late last year, but we're going to start that basically from, from day 1 this year once we announce those speakers and they accept their invitation. So everyone will have the opportunity to to get to know each other over a period of, you know, months before the conference to, you know, if they're in the same city, to tee up maybe wanting to get together or we can do, you know, Google Meets or whatever else. There is a tremendous amount of support amongst the cohort of speakers before and then after the conference. You know, this is a shared experience that you're gonna have with these people for forever, basically.
Michael:And so, you know, we want to try and make that a good experience for our speakers as well. Because the more friendly, I think, that everyone is, the more cohesive that group of speakers is. And, and it, and it also means that having some heads up of what the other people are speaking about means that if you're talking about tangential topics or if you're talking about related things, if you're, you know, oh, such and such said this yesterday. I want to expand on that. Or, you know, here's my thoughts on that thing.
Michael:It kind of makes the conference flow together a lot better. And that, you know, from my perspective, again, as an organizer, and even as an attendee, it makes for a more engaging event that all of these things kind of chain together.
Marty:Yeah. I think everything needs to flow and everything needs to have, connection, I think, is probably the best word between individuals, between talks, between, the the community as a whole. And I think I I walked into Telerikon not really knowing what to expect, and I am this sounds a little weird, but I'm one of the shyest people you will probably meet. And I think even just the social side of it, of of meeting new people and and and being around, other people who who know everyone already, you know, I found to be really but also through things like the dinner the night before and and, you know, being able to hang out, you know, in the hotel before before heading out. It it was just really great to be able to break down some of those barriers, and it's not just about the speaking side of things, but there's also human beings there and hearing other people's stories and and backgrounds and skill sets.
Marty:And to be able to to talk about things, I think really really help create those connections. I mean, Greg and I have had quite a few chats since Laracon as well, on Telegram, which, introduced me to Laracon introduced me to Telegram. But it's been good to know that there there are like minded people out there who, you know, there's still almost just that little bump to, you know, push you a little bit further, push you past where you normally would go. Because at the end of the day, we all like to do what's comfortable, and we don't like to move outside of that comfort because, well, it's comfortable for a reason.
Greg:And the older the older you get, the harder it is to find Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, friends and and and support network. I find, like, you know, got a wife and 2 kids, and that occupies the lion's share of my my social time. So I don't have time to just randomly go out and make friends or having like, being part of a group, like, not forced into a group because they're, like it's a choice to go and do this.
Greg:It's a choice to go and speak. It's a choice to put your hand up and put yourself out there. But, you know, that that can then turn into, a network and then that parts of that network become friendship groups. I mean, Michael and I speak on Telegram almost on the daily, just about all sorts of stuff that, you know, conference related or, you know, ripples related or midslice related.
Michael:Yeah. There it is.
Marty:Jordan, can you mute him, Michael? Don't you have the hit the mute button?
Greg:He's just gonna use AI to make him to to change it to Tim Tans. That's right. The 10th best biscuit.
Michael:Yeah. Yeah. And that's you know, I I'm in touch with the majority of the speakers. The it's it's a bit bit more difficult for the the speakers that come in from outside of the community because they kind of dip in, they give their talk, they do a great job, but then, you know, they're off to their their own worlds as as Greg said. But for those of us that are in the Laravel community that are going to be staying in the Laravel community, it's great to to make that connection.
Michael:And I think whether it's, you know, Australia or the US or Europe, you know, going to these conferences really helps you to meet other like minded people. That's really what it's all about, and we're gonna try really hard to afford attendees as many opportunities before, during, after, and beyond, you know, the conference this year to, to really, to have those connections and, and to find people. You know, whether it's to make some new friends, to, you know, share some ideas with, or if it's to start new adventures. If it's to, you know, find work in the future, either, you know, client work or or a new employment opportunity, you know, all of this stuff kind of starts from putting yourself out there at the conferences. So, yeah.
Michael:At this point, people will have heard. I can't tell you too about it because it's still a secret at this point of recording. But people people will have heard, you know, what what we're trying to do, in in more detail in terms of, the networking. Like that was, that was something that, that was mentioned by, by several people last year that we didn't have the opportunities. So the, the theater we're at, or the venue that we're at, has got heaps of room to, to mingle, to eat together, to, you know, speak together.
Michael:After dark is an incredible and fun experience, but it's, you know, it's loud and it's not the focus really to have those meaningful conversations. But we will make space for more low key things to to be able to do that this year as well. So I'm I'm very excited to to get that information out. I have dusted off and rolled out the, the marketing apparatus for Laracon AU 2024 today with what I I don't someone asked me, like, did you come up with this or did you stumble upon it? And honestly, I do not remember.
Michael:I just remember going, mate. And then just drawing, drawing the conclusion from there. And I just turned the camera on and I just recorded, like, how many different ways can I say 'mate'? And in what different context can the word mate be used? Which I thought was just a fun little thing, which then landed on, you know, mate becoming May 8, which is when we will launch the full Laracon website with all of the details about the venue, all of the stuff that we're doing around the conference this year.
Michael:So I'm I'm really excited to to, get that out. And, I'm sorry to Steven.
Greg:Oh, poor Steven. So, Marty, after I mean, we've we've spoken a lot about the actual experience. I'm interested in, like, what the sort of post conference experience has been for you as a shy person who maybe wasn't putting himself out there, quite so much. I mean, I think you've guested on a bunch of podcasts since, and, you've moved house to made the made the big big move south to to Adelaide and sort of rebooted the rebooted your business in a in a in a whole new cave. So what has the post what has this sort of post, conference experience been for you?
Marty:I I I think it's still landing a little bit, you know, following on from what Michael was just talking about with regards to connection, I think my own, my own journey over the last, year year and a bit and probably nearly oh, no. Year and a bit, has really been on on finding quality connection. Life's too short to have connections that aren't providing value, whatever that is defined as for for what a connection means to you. And so I'm originally from Adelaide and coming back to Adelaide, you know, to be closer to my folks. They're getting a little older.
Marty:To be closer to my brother who's just had 2 kids and finding that sort of connection. And I think it's really shifted the priority of what I'm wanting out of things as well. You know, being able to traipse around Adelaide really easily is is convenient for that too. But I think, you know, these small situations, you know, talking to you 2 here today, is easy. I'm I'm really great in a small group of people.
Marty:You put me in a larger social situation, and that's where I really start to to, I think, get very uncomfortable very, very quickly. And that's something I've been working with my whole life. You know, it's it's just sort of where where I, I guess, land, in that sort sort of things. And that's where it's so so bizarre, the fact that I I have no drama with speaking in front of people. I have no drama with teaching a group fitness class.
Marty:That doesn't that part of things doesn't scare me at all. But yet, socially, I'm awkward awkward and weird and quiet and shy. And, yeah, you know, finding those connections finding those connections that are meaningful to help build me up as well, you know, that everything's a little bit of a two way And I think that's really been the big focus here, especially with the move as being, you know, connection. I my my oldest mate from May, from university, so going back 20 something years, you know, he's now dad with 2 kids, and he's 20 something minutes away, compared to, you know, a flight away. And that's a relationship that even after so much time where he's had so much happen in his life, I've had so much happen, that relationship's still there.
Marty:And I think that's that's gonna be one that's there for for life. So, you know, I guess focusing and reprioritizing what's important. That it's not just about work. It's about connection. Mhmm.
Marty:I
Greg:think to, it's like getting in with a group of like minded people. Like, I mean, I I feel the same way. I feel very weird and awkward, and I I, you know, often wondered how do you get into the sort of inside club, I guess, in the community. Not that there is really a club, but, you know, you sort of sit on the outside of this community and look into it and wonder how do you sort of become part of, part of what's going on. And realizing, like, through through a conference experience like Laracon and and Laracon, I think, is special.
Greg:I don't think every conference would be that way. I don't think all conference organizers go to the the, the lengths that Michael does to make sure that, you know, everyone knows each other and are friends, but, or friends by the end of it. But I think getting a group with a group of like minded people and realizing that, you know, the inside group isn't a bunch of very special influencers who are, you know, different than you are or better than you are. And they're just regular people with, you know, similar sorts of life experiences and similar hang ups and similar, you know, personality quirks. And, it it's I think it's really interesting to to experience that and and and and get a get a sense of bombing.
Greg:It's probably something that, that that stood out for me through my experience.
Michael:Yeah. The the speakers aren't necessarily special or part of any inside club or anything like that. They're just the ones who put a submission in, and that submission was interesting enough to to get selected to speak. If you don't if you don't put a submission in, you don't get to say, How do I get part of that club? How do I become a You have to put the submission in.
Michael:You have to put the work in. You know, I had someone that submitted a talk. A couple of talks, actually. And one of them, I picked. And the other one, I was like, I don't know about that.
Michael:And they, just out of the blue, messaged me and said, hey, I'm I'm really digging this other one, which they didn't know that I hadn't had had any interest in. And they kind of fleshed it out a little bit. They sent me a voice message about, you know, what they were thinking and how they wanted to approach the talk. And I was like, oh, well, no. That is interesting.
Michael:You know? And they've got a much better chance now of being selected. Not and it's not to say that everyone has to do this. But, you know, if you are clear in what that abstract looks like, then, you know, it's it's much more likely that you get selected and you get to be become part of that that group of speakers. So, you know, you don't you don't get to sit on the sidelines and throw shade at at at a conference because I'm not interested in any of those talks.
Michael:Well, if you're not interested in any of those talks, then you have to be, you know, part of the group of people that are putting up the talks that are of interest. Because the things that interest you, 99% of the time, are going to interest other people. So, you know, put yourself out there. In terms of, like, being socially awkward, I think I don't think that's a weird thing to say, you know, amongst us 3 friends. It's not a weird thing to say in our community of, like, 400 strangers at a conference.
Michael:We're all a little bit like that. And, you know, I've been looking at how we can, kind of, break that ice a little bit for for attendees. You know, not everyone coming knows each other. You know, some people are coming with a group of people from work. Some people have been to 2 or 3 Laricons now, so they might know a few people.
Michael:But, you know, we had heaps of first timers last year. And so, you know, I'm I'm looking at things like talking point cards and and things like that. Just like fun little things that we can put on the tables and go, you know, people come around that and go, what's this? And, you know, why don't you people, like, come up to that and have a look? And another person comes in and and this is how you kinda build those connections, amongst, you know, people that may not necessarily know.
Michael:What are we gonna talk about? Like, it's really easy to walk up to someone that's kind of standing on the side looking lost or, you know, like they don't know what to do and say, you know, what, what, what was your favorite takeaway from Greg's talk last session? Or, you know, what have you learned about STATAMIC from Marty's session? Like, these, these easy things in the conference setting. Like, everyone's got a common point of reference to start talking and, like, conversations just go from there at that point.
Michael:You know, it's it's I think conferences like this with like minded people, are easier than ever, believe it or not, as as socially awkward as you think you might be to to have great
Greg:So why don't you one of the really interesting stories that I that just flashed into my head since you mentioned that? And I agree with you, by the way. If you're going to the group and you got, like, 3 or 4 work colleagues and you see someone who's out on their own, just, like, adopt them. Adopt them into your group. But, I went I went to lunch on the 1st day of the conference, and I went to lunch with a bunch of people that I didn't know.
Greg:So I went to lunch with Daniel Coleman, who I had a had a few conversations with beforehand, and I think, a few of the other speakers, came along as well. And this gentleman who, I think, was from Japan, and his name has dropped out of my head, so I'm very, very sorry
Michael:if you're
Greg:listening. Followed us followed us into the restaurant and sat on our table. Like, so it was a whole bunch of speakers and this guy. And, Daniel and he started speaking in Japanese because it turns out Daniel spent a lot of time in Japan, in his youth. And it was it was really great.
Greg:So, I mean, I think putting yourself out if you're not yet quite ready to put a talk in, just put a talk in. But if you're not quite ready to do that, this is a group like, by and large, if you drew that sort of Venn diagram of of people who have varied interests, this is like a very, very tight intersection of all of your interests. There's a very, very, very high chance that 90% of the people at the conference are gonna be your friends, like, whether you know them or not. So, you know, putting yourself out there might not just be might not be about being brave and standing on stage. It might just be that group of people looks really, really interesting or that group of speakers looks really, really interesting.
Greg:I'm going to, like, follow them to lunch and have a chat with them or I'm gonna, you know, bail them up for coffee or, I'm gonna ask them to, you know, do some activity at after dark. You know, you don't have to stay. It is very, very safe, and it feels very, very safe staying within your group. But the the dirty little secret is that everyone at that conference is your group. It really is.
Greg:Like, they're all Laravel devs. They're all, you know, probably in the same Yep. Broad parts of their career that, that you are. They use the same tools. They have the same, interests in a lot of cases.
Greg:So there's there's a really great sort of shared shared understanding there that, I don't think everyone realizes is well, doesn't necessarily realize is there.
Michael:Yep. 100%. Wonderful. Well, I think that is a a good place to to wrap. I think we had some conversations there about putting yourself out there, about, you know, attending conferences, which which is obviously big in, my brain at the moment, you know, trying to get people to attend conferences, and, and just like, you know, the happy, happy eventualities, you know, the friends you make, the things you'll learn, the things that you'll take away, you know.
Michael:So, yeah, thanks. Thanks, Marty, for for joining us on Thank you very much
Greg:for having me.
Michael:Of the Ripples podcast. Excellent. We look forward to to seeing you again. I mean, you're in Adelaide now, so I should be able to find some reason to see you between now and and November. Hopefully hopefully, I'll get to see you again at If if I go out
Marty:the door and wave, you'll be able to see me. Adelaide is that small place where you can see everything.
Greg:Well, there's no tall buildings to go in.
Michael:That's right. That's right.
Marty:I I see everything in everyone. Duty to say that this though.
Michael:So if
Marty:I look out that way, I see the city. If I look out that way, I see the hills. So we are actually in a really good location here. And I think if if, maybe if your hair was still colored from Laracon days, Michael. Yeah.
Marty:If it was still colored, I reckon I'd be able
Michael:to color it from from
Marty:out looking out over the city. So, yeah, not too far away.
Michael:Excellent.
Greg:Well, you can oh, you're either up, Mike? Well I seem to be doing it all the time lately.
Michael:Alright. Well, you can find us, on Twitter, on YouTube at ripplesfm. You can find show notes for this episode at ripples.fm. Marty is on Twitter at Marty Friedel. Greg is at gregskemon, and I'm at Michael Dorinda.
Michael:And until next time, I hope to see you making waves. Bye, everyone.