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Hello and welcome to the Insights and Sounds podcast, a podcast centered around classical music. Join Dr. John Sinclair, and explore composers past and present, their works, and an occasional classical music informational episode.
Paul Jacobs Interview
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[00:00:00]
Dr. Sinclair: Hello. Good people. Welcome to this episode, and do we have a treat for you? We're gonna have a conversation with world class organist Paul Jacobs.
Paul Jacobs: I
Dr. Sinclair: go into his bio, Paul is so selfie facing that he's going to correct me on all of it before I get to the end.
But let me say that this is in my opinion. The organist of our generation. he's one that we always bring to the Bach Festival. he has probably played more concerti than anyone I know. he has the most active schedule. He's a professor of organ at Julliard School. I don't know how he does it all, but we're gonna have a great conversation.
So let's start with actually not anything very musical. We were just talking about, , starting in a small town. Tell, tell us about where you grew up.
Paul Jacobs: Oh, John. Well, thanks for that introduction. It is an honor to be back with you at the Bach Festival. I love coming to Winter Park and I, yeah, I am from a small town called Washington, Pennsylvania. Pittsburgh is the closest city I [00:01:00] did not grow up in a particularly musical family.
But was fortunate to have their support and also to have good musical mentors as a child and as a teenager, uh, piano and organ teacher who remained very dear friends, I feel indebted to them. And I started with the piano. Uh, we did have a little spin it in in our house and it was clear that I was interested in music.
So around age five, six began to take, uh, piano lessons. And it was in church that I. Saw the organ and heard it as a young boy. And at about age 11 or 10 or 11, I um, came up with the gumption to go to the organ loft and watch the organist play the post lus every weekend and was just fixated on all of the buttons and knobs and pipes.
And, and I kind of knew early on that I was gonna be an organist, but, but music that was never a question.
Dr. Sinclair: Wow. It's [00:02:00] fa fascinating to me that. That at an early age, you, you caught on immediately to what you wanted to do. Some people aren't quite that lucky in the music world, but you, you, you were so from there, where did you go? You went to college.
Paul Jacobs: Yeah, I, um, I went to the Curtis Institute in Philadelphia, and, uh, my own family hadn't heard of the Curtis Institute, but again, my, my teachers in high school, they directed me there and I was lucky to study with John Weaver,
Dr. Sinclair: one of the great masters.
Paul Jacobs: great masters.
Oh, I miss him very much. Great masters. And then I went to Yale. For a Master's and, uh, while I was a graduate student, I'd been performing more regularly and did some of these marathon concerts of Bach and Messian. And, uh, I got a call out of the, the blue it seemed, from the dean at Julliard when I was in my last semester at as a graduate student, and he said, well, would you like to teach?
Uh, at Julliard next year, and I thought I sure would. So that
Dr. Sinclair: How long have you been there?[00:03:00]
Paul Jacobs: This is my 22nd year
Dr. Sinclair: Oh my
Paul Jacobs: It's hard to
Dr. Sinclair: Now, am I correct in saying that you started at the Julliard School at age like 26?
Paul Jacobs: exactly right. 26.
Dr. Sinclair: This is unbelievable. And uh, it's, you know, it's. Hard to go. It's well, it's great to start at the top, you know? I mean it's, I'm trying to think. You know, there wasn't any warmup act.
You go right to the Julliard School. Good for you. That's fabulous. So one of the things that always fascinates me, let's go back. You said something about a marathon, if I'm not mistaken. I've been following your career a long time in 2000, which would've been the 250th anniversary of JS Bach's, , death.
You played all the organ Works, aach, and you did it all in like an 18 hour period. Is that right?
Paul Jacobs: That is exactly right. I actually, in my last semester as an undergrad, played the, the concert in 14 evenings, the first time in, uh, Philadelphia, and then in New York City in May, and in [00:04:00] July. I said, I'd like to offer this to, you know, the area that I'm from, the Pittsburgh region, and that was on the very.
Anniversary of Z Box death July the 28th. I started at 6:00 AM and I ended shortly after midnight the next day with just very brief breaks in between. And amazingly, I only had one cup of chocolate pudding and water throughout the day. That was it. That was it. That was it. It was pure, adrenaline,
Dr. Sinclair: and then afterwards you,
Paul Jacobs: I ate a lot
Dr. Sinclair: gonna say, yeah. And
Paul Jacobs: I slept until three the following afternoon.
Dr. Sinclair: gosh. Now you always fascinate me with your ability to memorize your music. And I want to get into, did you have a process or a procedure? But before you do that, did you do all 18 hours from memory?
Paul Jacobs: I, well, I memorized all of the Bach organ works, but in this condensed version, I would use the score for some of it.
Dr. Sinclair: That made me, that makes me feel a lot better actually, be quite honest with you. I [00:05:00] was hope, I was hoping you would say that. I was thinking the others just, oh my gosh. I, I'm, I'm gonna turn the mic off. Let's just, I'm gonna quit this business. Yeah. Oh, that, that's, that's astounding. So, do you have a favorite of the Bach literature?
Paul Jacobs: Oh, you know, that really is a, it would be an impossible question for me to answer.
I just love it all. I mean, Bach is, you know, John is one of those composers who just touches every human emotion and he's sublime. I mean, it's just absolutely transcendent out of this world music, and
Dr. Sinclair: I, I find that I can go back to the same piece and it speaks to me differently every time. It's, it's, it's, um, that level of great art that just continues to grow and continues to evolve at whatever stage in life you are.
Paul Jacobs: That's exactly right. It, you deepen the mystery every time you delve into it. It just grows deeper and deeper and more splendid and, uh, uh, there just aren't many things in life that you can say that about.
Dr. Sinclair: Yeah, that [00:06:00] is. That is for sure. Now you do a lot of different genre. You do a lot, of course. I I should ask this. Is there any piece of music for organ that you have yet to play that you want to play?
Paul Jacobs: Funny that you should say that. Um, I am, I haven't really talked much about this, but in light of the Bach marathons, et cetera, which was almost 25 years ago, for me, I'm thinking about art of fu. And it's one work that I have not played. But of course, you know, the, the, uh, instrument for which it was composed or instruments is ambiguous.
And I'd like to tackle this work for the organ. So I'm
Dr. Sinclair: Oh, I, I, I wanna be the first to listen to that. That's, that, you know, that we all know at the time of his life what he wanted to do with that piece. So, yeah, I, I'd, I'd like to, yeah, let us know when you do that. I wanna be in the front row. Uh, so you do all different genre, of course, the solo music and, uh, concert.
Is there a particular genre [00:07:00] that you are enjoying more now or that you used to enjoy more? Uh, in other words, what, where, where are you with that?
Paul Jacobs: Yeah. You know, and, and it's for different stages of life. You know, you gravitate more. Bach is that kind of timeless, uh, interest to me, but yes. I mean, sometimes it's in the 19th century French romanticism.
Sometimes I'm, I'm into re and Mendelssohn, or the 18th century, late 18th century with Mozart. I do a lot of, um, premieres and commissions, a lot of 20th and contemporary 20th century and contemporary pieces too. Last week I was with the, Philadelphia Orchestra playing a work by Alfredo Cosella, the Italian modernist, who was very well known of his time, the first part of the 20th century.
Not so much now, but this work Concerto Romano for Organ and Orchestra was, uh. Really, I think a find, uh, 'cause it's not been heard very often. So I like to dig into those corners that are lesser known too.
Dr. Sinclair: Well, I also know you play the barber quite often. Yes.[00:08:00]
Paul Jacobs: Yes.
Dr. Sinclair: I'm always interested in anything, Barbara. You know, he spent time here at Rollins and so, uh, I'm always fascinated by that piece and we must have you back to, to play that Tata.
Paul Jacobs: I would love
that.
Dr. Sinclair: Sometime we'll tell you about the story of his time here.
'cause we did find actually some manuscripts he wrote for Sidney and Louise and sent them on to the, uh, archives or, um, library of Congress. But anyway, this is bar, we came, Barbara Meti came here many times to visit family. And so we always try to remind people of that. So now let me ask another question that I, I find fascinating about your playing is that your registrations are, are s.
So creative. they're warm, they're rich when they need to be. They're unique and I, you make each organ feel, maybe you get the best out of that particular instrument. When I heard you play last time here, I thought he figured this, this organ out. He's, he's, he's got all the colors of this instrument playing.
What method do you go by when [00:09:00] you start your registration for a piece?
Paul Jacobs: Well, that's good. Thank you for the, those words. I work very hard in finding the right sounds. I mean, I think of the painter with a palette of colors and you, you know, combine those colors at, at pleasure. But it is the same thing with an organ. There's a palette of color. Every organ is different, and I believe that you have to find the strengths of that instrument and be imaginative.
Go outside of the box, do things that you wouldn't do elsewhere. Uh, sometimes the organ. Uh, it can be an intimidating instrument and organists can be a little too cerebral, a little too academic. And I, I, for me, I'm a romantic in the sense that I want the emotion. I love beauty. I love the power. I want that to connect with a person maybe who doesn't read a note of music and the excitement of an instrument in all of its glory and color that should come
Dr. Sinclair: Well, it comes out and, and the expressivity of your playing is, is, is beyond measure. tell me, I touched on it [00:10:00] Tell me how you go about your memorization and I'm curious, follow up question is how many pieces do you kind of keep in the memorized state all the time?
Paul Jacobs: Yeah, that is a good question. I, I'd have to think about it, but I was expected to memorize from an early age and, and organists don't regularly memorize, and I think I understand why, because of the nature of the instrument. Organists have so much to think about when they are performing things that.
Aren't musical, you know, where the buttons are and the gears and everything changes from instrument to instruments. So it's, it's easy to become distracted and you have to make all of those technical and mechanical, , requirements of organ playing, uh, seamless and make it seem like you're, but it does take some work.
but I was expected as an undergrad and beyond that to always memorize as a student. And so it's just something that. I, I took two and I find it liberating for me, uh, to not have to read a score and just to [00:11:00] allow that music to pour directly from the heart.
Dr. Sinclair: Do you require that of your students?
Paul Jacobs: Um, I require them to do some, and of course some are are more natural with it. Uh, they do it all the time and for some it's more of a challenge. But, you know, if they're willing to try, I think they realize the advantages of playing from memory.
Dr. Sinclair: So I'm also curious, you travel so much, how many recitals do you do a here?
Paul Jacobs: , It, it changes, I mean, between recitals and, and working with orchestras.
I don't know. It might be, um, or more than that. I'd have to think about it, but it's something I have to gauge very carefully with my teaching and, uh, you know,
Dr. Sinclair: Do, do you enjoy the travel?
Paul Jacobs: Well, I enjoy the Destina nations. Maybe not the airport
Dr. Sinclair: Anymore it's, it, the, I I would be the same way. The travel has gotten arduous, but, but once you get to the destination, and
we know you like coming here because the town, and we love having you here in this town too. So, so we [00:12:00] raise our intellectual level as soon as you, as soon as you enter.
where is the home organ that you play the most?
Paul Jacobs: Ah, yes. Well, there is a small Episcopal church on the upper west side of Manhattan, uh, not far from Julliard.
And I, uh, frequently practice there. It's a, it's not a large instrument, but it's a beautiful little organ by Schine and, um, I just am able to get in there throughout the day or late at night sometimes. And, uh, but I also do a lot of work on the piano. I still, I always have practiced even my organ music on the piano.
I studied the piano very seriously for years until I, you know, just didn't have the time to do it anymore. But I love sitting down to it.
Dr. Sinclair: And so do you find that when you go between the instruments, the touch difference considerable, or do you find preparing on the piano is helpful for the organ playing or vice
Paul Jacobs: versa?
Well, I find at the beginning, you know, there's so many. Other things to think [00:13:00] about when you sit at a big organ console and you have to think about the registration and the feet and all that. So initially when I'm learning a piece, I like to sit at a, just a piano keyboard. And, you know, you just work on the, the hands, the part for the hands and, and phrasing and other sort of basic musical things.
And then you add complications when you go to the organ.
Dr. Sinclair: we've talked around this. Do you have a, a process for memorization or is it.
Paul Jacobs: I would say that, well, I think of it and I talk to my students. If you have a, a pie, you cut up that pie into slices. And so if I have a large piece of music, I cut it up into sections and I will put in my score.
What I'll just call memory posts, little symbols, and I don't have a photographic memory. If I did it would be easy. I'd just look at the page and there's a, but I would say that the visual element of memorization has gotten stronger as I've done this over the years, and so I can visually see [00:14:00] pages in, in a very general sense when I'm playing
Dr. Sinclair: That. That's a great gift. And it sounds like it's a developed gift. It doesn't sound like it was one that you had the beginning.
Paul Jacobs: No, I very, where I've worked very hard at it, and of course there are times when your memory fails and, uh, you know, you just have to learn how to maneuver around in a way that not too many people
Dr. Sinclair: So, so when you're, when you're playing, and if that happens, are you, the melody's still in your head and perhaps the harmonies,
Paul Jacobs: Yes. I would say you have to find that sweet spot when you're performing. You don't wanna overanalyze or think too hard when you're performing live, then you're gonna have a problem. Uh, but you also, you don't want to go on autopilot
Dr. Sinclair: no, that's that. Well, you lose the musicality then you
Absolutely. , So what is it that we haven't talked about that you would like to talk about? I have a couple more questions, but I thought maybe you might have something.
Paul Jacobs: Well, sure. Just that I am in inspired every time I come here to Winter Park.
I think [00:15:00] of the history of this festival and, uh, what you do every season. It is just amazing the audiences, the love for music down here. I wish we could cut and paste this model in every town in this country.
Dr. Sinclair: Well, you, you are way too kind. To us.
Paul Jacobs: You know.
Dr. Sinclair: I tell my students that if you can find a way to make a living as a musician, you should take it. I mean, we are so lucky for those of us who actually get to make a living as a musician and then to find a community that really does appreciate music as the fine art that it is and, and wants to experiment with the variety of music we offer 'em.
Once again, this festival is gonna have everything from your fabulous recital to, to other recitals, to the king singers, to a b minor mass, to a Brahms Requiem and big band jazz playing spirituals. I mean, I, I, I kind of wanna do the whole thing. I, I'm convinced that if
we
only live in the past with music, we're [00:16:00] gonna be in trouble in the future.
Paul Jacobs: I agree. And an art form has to, to constantly live and grow. And you add to it. And, and we share that vision, John.
Dr. Sinclair: Well, we also share a friend, I think. I think you've played the Stephen Paulis
Paul Jacobs: Oh yes. Dear Steven. Yeah, two, two of his concertos. I had the pleasure and in fact I premiered his fourth and final organ concerto with the Phoenix Symphony, and this would maybe, maybe have been a year or two before he passed and uh
Dr. Sinclair: He was the year, he was, the year he was here, the year before he passed. We had just worked out. He wanted a new recording of one of his pieces. I said, how about I'll do that recording. I have a professor going on a sabbatical next year if you'll come and spend three weeks or a month teaching for our students.
And we'd made a deal that he was gonna come here and spend a month. And in return we were gonna record this, this, uh, a piece of his, and it was on July 4th, I think he passed away.
Paul Jacobs: Yeah, that's right. [00:17:00]
Dr. Sinclair: Family picnic. Yeah.
Yeah. What a, what a
Paul Jacobs: gentleman
kind and generous man.
And, and one of those composers who, as you know, I mean, he didn't have a regular teaching position. I mean, he was just, he just published a lot of music and people loved his
Dr. Sinclair: Yeah.
It's, it's fabulous. As hardly a semester goes by that I don't pull something of his out
to do. It's, and, uh, I, I, I've done a couple of his major works, but I do a lot of his regular anthems and they're just fabulous. And the organ piece, is it, is it as as
Paul Jacobs: good
as
the
other
words? Well, yes. I would say he wrote four organ concertos and, and he was an organist himself. He played a little bit and he sat at the organ when he was writing those pieces. So he understood organ and voice very well. Yeah.
Dr. Sinclair: That's good to hear. Now you've got another concertos or concerti we need, we
need to do
Paul Jacobs: so
Dr. Sinclair: while people will be listening to this long after the recital, , tell us what you're playing at, but I'm more [00:18:00] curious as to why you selected those pieces. Do you select them knowing what instrument you're gonna go to, or do you select it based on what you're working on at the time, or what your interest is at the time?
I'm curious as to how you put together. It's almost like a
Paul Jacobs: curator
Yes. Well, it's really all of those things. And of course, you have this beautiful AI and Skinner organ here in the chapel, uh, in a chapel by Ralph Adams. Cram one of my favorite architects. So this music, the Mendelssohn, the Fran, uh, the Ives, uh, the Bach, and the Great List aos.
Uh, these pieces work very well with the, just wider range, with the, the wide range of color. We have on this instrument, the expressivity. And, um, it is just beautifully suited to this instrument, I would say.
Dr. Sinclair: Uh, I, I, I'm glad to hear that, but I'm, I'm, I'm really curious, as the origin of this instrument, I would've loved to have heard it in its original first, [00:19:00] uh, before it was renovated, because as you know, Catherine, uh, Crozier and Harold Gleason took care of the first renovation, and in the words I read in some notes somewhere that they wanted it to be a little more romantic.
When they added it,
Paul Jacobs: I, I would say so. And, and it definitely has that, I mean, it, it's clear, it's voiced in such a way that you can play all the contra punal music as that TIF division and the stops have a little bit of articulation, et cetera. But the swell boxes are very expressive. And of course, you have the beautiful antiphonal division in the gallery that just fills out the sounds so
Dr. Sinclair: Well, when Randall Dyer redid it, the only request I had was. Let's not lose what we've got in this great instrument. And I think he, he kept that and, and gave us some, a little more power
Paul Jacobs: to
that Absolutely. While retaining the integrity of the organ
upfront. Yes.
Dr. Sinclair: , Over the years, do you
Paul Jacobs: have
Dr. Sinclair: instruments that you have just loved to play on?
We know what instruments you practice on. What are some of your, I, I don't want to get you in trouble by saying, I really love this instrument, [00:20:00] not this one. So we'll only deal with the positive. What are some of your favorite instruments as you go around the world that you play?
Paul Jacobs: Oh my. That's also a very difficult question because there's so many and it does depend on, uh, the repertoire and they're just organs in very different styles.
I mean, I, um, I spend each summer, um, directing the Organ Institute at the Organ B
Dr. Sinclair: Oh, I'm glad to. I wanted to go there. That's
Paul Jacobs: great.
Yes.
Yeah. And there's a beautiful organ, uh, by, uh, Brom Baugh. Up there and it's um, it's purely mechanical. Very different style from, uh, the instrument here in Winter Park and, and different from many other instruments, but beautifully suited to, uh, you know, the Bach and other literature.
And I take great pleasure in
Dr. Sinclair: And you've been there 10 years, haven't you?
Paul Jacobs: haven't you? Yes. This will be my 11th year, this coming summer, but
Dr. Sinclair: Yeah. Oh, that's fabulous. That's, that's, uh, one of the sister festivals and we always watch what they're doing 'cause it's such an imaginative,
Paul Jacobs: wonder. It's a wonderful festival.
I mean, a [00:21:00] d different structure of course, but as you say, Bach is that common
Dr. Sinclair: Yeah, yeah. It, it, it, it is great. So, any other great instruments across the world that you've enjoyed playing?
yes. I, I, probably too hard. It's like asking you
Paul Jacobs: to
pick
children.
Yes. There's so many around the world, but I could at least say in New York City, I was thrilled that it long last, the big organ at St.
John, the Divine, the cathedral has finally been, uh, returned and restored and it's sounding again, and that is spectacular. Uh, the Riverside organ also very impressive. The St. Mary, the Virgin in Times Square. I recorded a lot of Messian there years ago, and so, you know, it's just, I guess that's one of the joys of being an organist is you can never get stale because the organs keep you fresh.
Dr. Sinclair: You know, I think that that's a, that's a really positive way to look at it. For me, if I were an organist, it'd be frightening because every instrument is different, and as you're [00:22:00] playing, you're having to adapt to, I would imagine the stops are in different places on different instruments. There's nothing
Paul Jacobs: standard There's nothing standard.
And it's, it's fair to say that it's more work preparing for an organ recital than a piano recital. I mean, not to say any instrument is easy. Everyone takes a lifetime of study, but preparing for an organ, preparing the instrument takes a good day.
Dr. Sinclair: Oh, yes. I, uh, for those of you that are not aware of this, when we bring in a guest artist as a pianist, , they wanna come up and they're really wanting to feel what the instrument feels like, but they want to hear themselves in the room. They want used to the room Here. It's all that. Plus you gotta learn where all the knobs and the buttons and where the stops are and the colors in this
Paul Jacobs: instrument.
Dr. Sinclair: I mean, it, it is just would be so overwhelming to me. Um, it would be very comforting to go back to an instrument that I played and I liked.
Paul Jacobs: Yes, that's exactly right. So organists have to be perhaps the most versatile of all musicians.
Dr. Sinclair: can I buy that? Yes, absolutely buy [00:23:00] that.
All of us as musicians get asked this question, what would you do if you were not a musician? So what
Paul Jacobs: would you
Dr. Sinclair: do?
Paul Jacobs: Well, it's a good thing I am a musician because I can't imagine spending my life doing anything else other than music, other than serving music and bringing it before people.
Dr. Sinclair: Well, I don't know how we, uh,, say anything more profound, , to end this conversation, except for to say I'm very grateful you took some time to talk with us. I'm especially grateful you're here in Winter Park making music for us, and. I am honored and I find it so humbling, your musicianship and what you bring to us.
I am just thrilled that you're here, and thank you for continuing to come back
Paul Jacobs: to
us
all. It is truly my honor, John, thank you.
Dr. Sinclair: now, good people. I hope that you've enjoyed this conversation. Remember, the power of music belongs to each of us. Happy listening. See your next
Paul Jacobs: step.