Redeeming The Game

They won only seven games… and then won a championship.

Nobody saw it coming.

But years later, I’m realizing the championship wasn’t the greatest part of their story.

These two former players took very different paths. One walked through the devastating loss of his father during his freshman year. The other has faced deeply personal struggles and battles of his own.

But neither man’s story ended there.

Today, both are pastors.

One is a youth pastor. One is a lead pastor.

One is married with a child. The other is preparing for marriage.

And both have discovered something bigger than basketball:

Your struggle is not your identity.

Your past is not your identity.

Your performance is not your identity.

In Christ, you are beloved. And because of Jesus, you are righteous.

This conversation is about an unlikely championship, grief, personal battles, grace, redemption, and two young men who eventually became shepherds.

Maybe God was doing more than building a championship team.

Maybe He was building two shepherds.

🎙️ Redeeming the Game Podcast

Part 1 & Part 2 — coming soon.

If I could go back and talk to my younger self as a coach, these are the 10 things I’d tell him first.

I put them all into a free guide called “10 Things I Wish I Knew as a Young Coach.”

No fluff. No playbooks. Just real lessons from years of coaching, leading, winning, losing, and learning.

If you’re early in your coaching journey, or you want to coach with more purpose and clarity, grab it for free below.

👇 Free download linked below 👇

www.redeemingthegame.com/10things

matt@redeemingthegame.com

What is Redeeming The Game?

This is a space for coaches, trainers, and leaders who love the game — but don’t want the game to cost them their family, their integrity, or their soul.

Here, we talk about leadership, pressure, culture, identity, and the quiet tensions no one prepares you for when you step into coaching.

This isn’t about chasing wins at all costs.
It’s about restoring what the game was meant to form in us — and in the players we lead.

This podcast is presented by the Beloved Coaches Collective, a community committed to coaching from identity, not insecurity.

I’m Coach Sanders.
Let’s redeem the game — one coach at a time.

Audio Only - All Participants:
Welcome back everybody to the

Redeeming the Game podcast.

As you know, I'm your host Coach
Matt Sanders, and, uh, man, I cannot

tell you how excited I am today.

We are, uh, per our time zone,
mine and, mine and the guy on the

screen, Tobias Welling, we're at,
uh, 8:00 Central Time, but Mr.

Seth Hauer is somehow 20 minutes past,
uh, the Central Time Zone and got in the

mountain somehow, and he is at 7:00 AM.

We all got up for all of you to listen
today, and, uh, I am beyond, uh, grateful

and excited for these two incredible
gentlemen to come on the podcast.

Uh, we're gonna bless some people today
and, uh, I, I just, um, I want everybody

to know that, uh, I- we got up early.

That's the point, is we got up early
to get this thing rolling today.

So appreciate you two guys, uh, jumping
on and, um, we are going to, uh, do what

we did last time with a couple of my
other former players, Iz and, uh, Tim.

Shout out to you guys for, uh,
for jumping on the podcast.

Um, thank you guys for coming
on, and thank them for coming on.

We're gonna, we're gonna split this
one into two parts because normally

these conversations, they just,
they roll and we are, we're here to,

to tell an incredible story about
these, uh, incredible young men.

So, uh, let's get it started.

Without further ado, uh, Mr.

Tobias Welling, uh, and Mr.

Seth Hauer, appreciate
you guys jumping on today

Yeah, we appreciate you having us on.

Um, I reached outâ¦

Well, I didn't really reach out.

Uh, you posted a picture on your
Facebook story, which I never

really am on Facebook, but, uh-

we just finished my basement at my house,
and, uh, had to get some furniture, so I

was, uh, Facebook Marketplace, uh, hunter.

Hey, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

All new furniture.

So I see Coach Sanders, a picture of
you with your ring- Oh, yeah â¦ from

our championship The one you lost.

Yeah, and that's what
I swiped up and said.

I was like- Oh man, I lost
that ring, but you know what?

Doesn't even matter.

It sucks, 'cause that was a really
cool ring, but the memories we made,

the experience of actually winning-
Come on â¦ the championship and the

brotherhood we formed, way more valuable
than a- Absolutely â¦ piece of jewelry.

So- So good â¦ um, that's kind
of what got the ball rolling

on this, um- Absolutely.

Thank you for the setup.

Yeah.

You need your own podcast.

That was really good.

All right, well, uh, full transparency,
this is my first time ever being on a

podcast, so little nervous coming in.

You might have to give me some grace.

Oh, you're good.

Um, withâ¦

Yeah, Coach will tell you, you
never would know what would

come out my mouth, so- So true

hopefully, hopefully, uh,
nothing crazy happens today.

I'll tell you that, uh, two of my, two
of my college roommates, uh, shout out

Greg White and, uh, Jason Browning,
actually Will Campbell too, were all

youth pastors, and they all are you.

All three of them dudes, you never
knew what was gonna co- Now, you

can't be a, you can't be a lead
pastor like Seth and y- Yeah

and just pop off.

Like, you don't get to just say whatever
comes out of your, whatever, wo- well,

whatever comes in your mind, right?

'Cause that'll, that'll
get you in some trouble.

So, uh- Yeah â¦ well, Toby, why don't
you take a minute right now and just

tell us about where you are, who you
are, where you're from, that kind of

thing, what's going on in your life.

Yeah.

Um, obviously my name's Tobias,
and, uh, I am located in a small

village in Nebraska called Greenwood.

Um, that's where we live.

Um, and I grew up just five, six miles
down the road, uh, in Ashland, Nebraska.

And now I'm serving at a church, it's
a country church, uh, way out in theâ¦

Uh, it's not way out in the boonies,
but, uh, y- you ha- there's only

dirt roads that lead to my church.

Um, but we surprisingly have a
great, vibrant, uh, full church.

Um, but where we serve and do ministry
is in Waverly, Nebraska, and that's just

another five or six miles down the road.

Okay.

Wow.

And the coolest part about, uh, where
we serve, um, like I said, our church

is way out in the country, but we
have our own youth building smack dab

right in the middle of Waverly, and
so we draw in a lot of community kids.

Come on.

And it's a great outreach, um,
to the community of Waverly.

Um, so we've been really blessed.

So on a Wednesday night, we see
anywhere from 100 to 130, uh, students.

It's been crazy.

Wow.

God has really just blessed us,
uh, with the number of students

that show up every Wednesday night.

And, uh, I'm married- And I just
had my first daughter, um, seven

months ago, so I've been learning,
um, how to navigate fatherhood.

Which, uh, one thing I appreciated about
Coach is he always said, "I hope all you

guys get married and have kids someday."

And, uh, he always, you would always
tell us that- Yeah â¦ that basketball

also connects with fatherhood.

Come on, bro.

So.

Don't, don't, don't, don't
go â¦ Listen, don't do the whole

podcast in the first- Yeah, I won't

first c- in the first scene right here.

Let's, let's- Yeah.

I should also tell everyone that I'm 26
years old, so I'm still young and dumb.

Um, and uh, they say your brain
fully develops when you're 25.

I think mine's still developing.

Um, maybe I'll get there when I'm 30.

So much truth to that.

Thank you, Toby, appreciate that.

Thanks for the love.

All right, Seth Hauer, tell him.

Uh, well, my name's Seth.

I am here in, uh, the big,
big city of Mullen, Nebraska.

Uh, sarcasm, uh, right?

Village of about 400 people, um,
surrounded by cattle ranches.

Uh, for those of you who don't
know, the nearest Walmart is about

an hour and a half, two hours
away, uh, so gotta make a trip- Oof

if I need something.

But beautiful country.

Lord has blessed me.

Uh, I moved here three years
ago from Grand Island, Nebraska,

where I was born and raised.

Uh, so just about three hours east
of here, and got set up, God placed

me in this church in, in ways that
I never thought would happen, uh, as

a senior pastor at 21 years of age.

Now 24, um, single, uh, wasn't
married like most pastors would be,

and God just said, "Hang on tight
to the reins," and here you go.

And, uh, started a whole new life that I
absolutely am blessed and to love to live-

Come on â¦ uh, out here in the plains.

Well, uh, it is, it's dawning on
me that both of you said the word

village, and I'm like, "Holy smokes."

I- what, what, what am I doing on here?

We should have titled the podcast
today The Two Guys From Village.

Yeah, I don't know.

I'm, I'm sure, I'm sure
my village is bigger.

Yeah.

We have post office, a bar, an Amish
furniture store, and- â¦ Nebra-

Nebraska's biggest candy store.

Hey.

That's pretty cool.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

All right.

I should give you g- uh, I forgot to
say, uh, Waverly Ori Servant Ministry's

right outside of Lincoln, Nebraska.

Okay.

And, uh, where I live, Greenwood, it's
about in the middle of Lincoln and Omaha.

So- Mm-hmm â¦ uh, for the
listeners- Well, we appreciate

both â¦ a little bit of geography.

That's g- no, it's good.

No, it's good.

It's really good.

It's good for everybody to know and,
and, uh, just, yeah, appreciate the, the,

the candor and the, and the authenticity
of where you are and what you're doing.

It's, it really, it really does matter.

So, um, so, uh, we've, we, uh, we're
gonna title this part one of the podcast

The Season That Nobody Saw Coming.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, and, and, and when I
say nobody, uh, we, we, our team,

we saw it coming, uh, in 2020.

And a- all the things, right?

We're in COVID, everybody's, you
know, we're all dealing with all

of the things that go with that.

But the thing that, uh, and I don't
know if you guys have seen the, the,

uh, you may have, the post I made a
year ago that absolutely went nuts

on TikTok, was I posted a video about
winning se- uh, winning only seven

games and winning a championship.

It went nuts.

And, uh, so the, the podcast today,
the beginning of the podcast, we really

wanna dive into that, where what,
like, what d- what was it really like?

You know, who were you,
you know, in that season?

And, and that's really kind of where we're
gonna go, uh, in part one of the podcast.

So y- before we talk about the
championship, before we, you know, um,

really get deep into that, because it's
gonna be important for people to know,

the real question is, and Toby we'll
come back to you first and foremost

here, who were you when you first walked
into that gym, uh, I don't know, three

years or four years prior to that?

Well, three years prior to that.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it was our junior year
when we Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Um- Yeah â¦ which, uh, uh, Seth came in
a year after me, I believe That's right.

Yeah.

It was my freshman year.

Yeah.

Oh, freshman year?

Yeah.

Good year to come on.

Absolutely.

Oh, man.

Oh, yeah.

So- Uh, back to your question,
um, who was I when I walked,

first walked into that gym.

Uh, it's pr- it's actually
a pretty cool story.

So, uh, obviously 18 years old, I came
to Calvary straight out of high school.

Um, and God really had a hand in
that because my original plan was

to go to a s- a Bible college in
Omaha called Grace University.

Uh, that's where my parents went.

They're alumni.

My sister is currently going there.

She's actually in her, uh, sophomore
year, gonna go into her junior year there.

And so that's just, you know, where I
had my mind set to go, and I also had the

plan of trying out for the team there.

I wanted to play basketball.

Didn't really, um, have anything lined
up, but, um, Grace was also, um, they

moved a step higher, so I wasn't sure
of the odds of that, playing there.

But like I said, God's hand was in it.

That university closed my senior year
of high school, so then I was like,

"Oh, shoot, what am I gonna do?"

Um, and, uh, God lined everything up
to where, uh, I came out to Calvary.

Um, and what's actually
cool is I just enrolled.

Uh, Coach Sanders didn't seek
me out as a player at all.

Um, and so I showed up, uh, the first
day of school, and we, we talked,

like, we talked over the phone, uh,
mainly Coach P and I- Yeah â¦ about

me wanting to play and he's like-
Shout out Coach Philip Parker.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

And, uh, he was like, "Hey,
we're having, like, a visit week.

You should come down."

Ended up not being able to make it to
the visit week, um, so then I showed

up to the first day of college, um,
or first day on campus, and was like,

"Hey, I still wanna play basketball."

And, um, Coach Sanders said, "Well,
we might have a place for you."

"Uh, this week we're gonna be scrimmaging.

We're gonna be just hanging out.

Uh-" Yeah "â¦ scrimmage with the
guys, hang out with the guys, and

we'll see if there's a place for you."

Uh, so long story short, uh, scrimmaged
with the team the whole week, and

they were like, "This guy's a baller."

No.

Not actually, but, um.

No joke.

Oh, this is a funny story too, and, uh,
these two guys have been on the podcast.

But, uh, I'm, I'm moving into my dorm
room- And I get a knock on my door.

I open it up, two dudes
at the door, Quez and Zeb.

And I see this, you know, 6'7" giant dude.

He's like, "Hey, we hear
you wanna play basketball."

I'm like- â¦ "Do all the players

look like you?

'Cause I don't know if, uh, I
don't know if I'll be able to, uh,

to, you know, compete with this."

But oh, man, that was a funny story.

Shout out, uh, Quez and Zeb.

Yeah, shout them out, buddy.

Anyway, yeah.

Anyway, um, played with the team for
the week and, uh, they, we, you guys

had a team meeting, and came to a
consensus that we do have a spot for him.

Yeah.

And so, man, that was just such a
blessing, uh, to be welcomed in like

that with not having, uh, being sought
out for anything, technically a walk-on.

Yeah.

So that was just incredible
to be able to do.

And a little bit of a background as
far as the basketball side of things

go, um, my junior year of high school
basketball, we went undefeated in losses.

And so in other words, we
didn't win a single game.

Um, and so, uh, I was the
only returning letterman.

We had no seniors.

Every other, uh, player that
played varsity suited up JV,

and it was mostly freshmen.

Yeah, come on.

And so I came from a, a
basketball background of a lot

of unsuccess, of not winning.

Mm.

Um- Mm

and so I was super grateful kinda like
for a fresh start when I got to college.

Uh, we had more success my senior
year of high school basketball,

but, um, don- coming into that space
kind of felt like a fresh start-

Yeah â¦ as far as basketball went.

That's awesome.

Um, and then as far as where I was
spiritually in my faith coming into

that gym, um, I grew up in a Christian
household, um, so I always had a faith.

Um, and so one of my favorite things
about going to Calvary was being

surrounded by other Christians.

Um, and so I think that was an
incredible experience as well to

just be in a body of believers, um,
especially as a basketball team, which

was, you know, completely different
from, uh, my high school experience.

And the funny thing too is when, uh,
I met all my teammates, I found out

a bunch of them were homeschooled.

And I didn't even know homeschool
basketball was a thing until

I showed up at Calvary.

Well, that's- Um- That's awesome, Toby.

Thank you.

That- Yeah â¦ that's powerful.

That's really powerful.

And, uh, I think it's important
that everybody gets to hear, um,

uh, n- the championships don't
always look like you think they do.

Like, it's the, you don'tâ¦

I- is that, that, uh, picture
of the iceberg, right?

Like, you see the tip of the iceberg, but
everything that's underneath it, right?

So you come in with that, and
then you get to experience it.

That's powerful.

All right, Seth, tell us who you are
Man, so I mean, like Toby said, or

we just found out, it was my freshman
year walking into that gym, um, that

we're talking about, and so it was the
first time stepping foot in the gym.

Um, rewind about a year and a half to
my junior year right after football

season, I came on a visit to Calvary
and, uh, sat down with Coach P.,

talking about maybe playing basketball,
and, uh, I still remember this.

I was sitting in his office and
he's like, he, he looks at me dead

in the eyes and goes, "Are you
sure you're not a football player?"

Like, trying to, trying to remind me that,
you know, I was still 6'4", 6'5", and 280.

Yeah.

Um- Yeah.

Big boy walking around.

But- Yeah â¦ uh, went on
a visit with my family.

I absolutely loved campus.

Worked out, had a workout with you guys.

Really enjoyed, uh, 'cause Zeb was there,
uh- Big Zeb â¦ hanging out with him,

um, getting some pointers from him.

Um, went home and just a few months later,
uh, my dad passed away, and it kinda

sealed it for me to go to Calvary even if
I didn't play basketball, because I knew

how much that environment was good for me.

Mm.

So walking into the gym for that
first time my freshman year, I was

a kid who was still learning how to
grieve, even though it had been a year.

I was trying to take care of my mom and
do all these things, and for the first

time I was out of the house doing my own
thing- â¦ um, still trying to learn how

to grieve, and still working on struggles
that I had as a 18-year-old young man.

Um, and so to step foot into that
gym and have 15 other brothers

who I finally learned I was
not alone in my struggles- Mm

and we could walk with each other,
hold each other accountable, and then

just have a blast of a time doing it,
um- Changed a lot of things and, and

started me on some great paths, uh, in
life and, and grew me up pretty quick.

My goodness.

S- uh, Seth doesn't hold back.

Seth just grabbed
the- â¦ grabbed the- Yeah

sword and went straight for the jugular.

I, people are gonna be weeping in
the first five minutes of this thing.

Uh, and I, I think that is incre-
and, you know, uh, I, I, uh, I don't

ever assume, okay, so don't take this
the wrong way either one of you, I

assume nobody listens to this thing.

So I, I, when I say this to both
of you, if you haven't heard me say

this, uh, this is one of the things
I, I say almost every podcast.

One of the things that I wi- I wish that
I knew that I want every coach to know

is that when a player walks into the
gym, we somehow were taught that you

were basically a, a part of the machine.

And I know that To- especially Toby, when
you got there, I was really in a place

in my career where I was still living
for the championship, that I wasâ¦

That you, us accepting you, I even
think back, like, when you said that,

I remember the conversation with the
team about how serious we were about

you being a part of the program.

Like, what were we doing?

I, in my, I'm like, that is
the most childish thing I think

I've ever heard in my life.

And so I want coaches to hear that you're
people And that you're people with all

kinds of stuff that have happened in
your life and that are happening, and

that when you walk in the gym, you're
not just a part of that machine or as Dr.

Naismith said, this is gonna
blow both of your minds.

His fear, his prophetic vision of coaches,
his fear was that coaches would learn

to love winning to the point in which
players would become a cog in the machine.

Basically, some- a, a
means to an end, right?

And I can, like, I can
totally resonate with that.

Like, not that I didn't see you as people,
but I saw you 6'5" or 6'3" or whatever.

I saw you asâ¦

You see what I'm saying?

Like, it's real easy.

Mm-hmm.

Like, how big are you?

How fast are you?

Can you shoot?

And you miss the person, you know.

Now six years on the other
side of all that, holy smokes,

wish I knew then, right?

And I, I say that so much on this podcast.

Like, remember coach, these
pe- these guys are people.

These girls are people.

They areâ¦

They have stories that they're walking
into your gym with every day, literally.

Not just the first time.

Mm-hmm.

But every day.

You never know what just happened
at home the night before.

You never know what happened in the
dorm, you know, the night before.

D- I, like Toby, you waited till the last
minute to do a paper at 3:00 AM, you know.

That, that never happened.

I, never, ever happened.

Um- Never.

Never.

Um, one of the things that sticks out
to me about what Seth said that I think

fits, because both of you are pastors,
as we kind of s- uh, slot over into the

next section here, um, is that in, in Luke
3:22 it says, "You are my beloved son."

And I, Iâ¦

That stands out to me that both of
you, because of your time, uh, on

the team and at Calvary, and shout
out CU, um, you learned to, that

you, what you are, what you are now.

That it was teaching you about how
loved you are by the Father, about

how loved you are- Mm-hmm â¦ as a son
of God, and you are how o- all ofâ¦

And, and the team does that.

Basketball itself, because basketball
is a ministry, it does that, right?

And so that's really,
really sticks out to me.

All right.

Here we go.

Uh, how did seven wins
become a championship, Toby?

Yeah.

So I was thinking about this, and,
um, a kind of funny thing that first

came to mind is I'm not the kinda
guy where I can remember, "Oh yeah,

that game when I had, you know, this
many points," and, "Oh yeah, that

happened in that game," you know?

I can barely remember
what I did yesterday.

Uh, I have a friend who, uh, he
played, uh, freshman year, he was m-

my roommate, and he can remember his
games from freshman year, and I'm

like, "How do you remember that?"

I'm likeâ¦

I remember playing at Austin Peay,
'cause that was the coolest experience.

Oh man, what an experience.

Yeah.

And, uh, if you look up my stats on
ESPN, I pro- I have, I think, five

minutes of play time with four fouls.

You went in there for real.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I was guarding a seven-footer.

Like, what else am I supposed to do?

Oh my gosh, yeah.

You and Zeb had that seven-footer.

Lord have mercy.

Yeah.

Sorry, that was a whole tangent,
but- That was good, though.

Um, so yeah, I'm, I'm not the
type that remembers very well

of, like, specific games.

Um, I just thought that was kinda funny.

But when it boils down to the seven wins
turning into a championship, um, the way

that happened is really we just showed up.

Um, I remember one of your rules was
always whatever time practice starts,

if you're not 15 minutes early, you're
late Well, the 15 minutes turned to

30 minutes, the 30 minutes turned
to 45, the 45 turned to an hour.

Yeah.

I swear, whatever practice time
was, almost every single guy was

in that gym probably close to two
hours before practice started.

So true.

And, uh, so I think that was really
a huge, uh, part that played into,

um, the seven win string to the
championship, was just we showed

up and we put in the work- Wow

with the goal in mind of, "Hey, no matter
how well our season's gone up to this

point, we have the tournament coming up.

This is a fresh start."

Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Um, which reminds me, which reminds me
of, um, our relationship with Christ.

Um, you know, no matter where we've
been at- Come on â¦ in our past or

yesterday, with Jesus, today is a
fresh start, and I've needed that

reminder so many times in my life.

Come on, bro.

Yeah.

You know, I say this, I say this
a lot, and I'll let you finish.

I say this a lot on the podcast, but
I've, I've, I've said it a ton on social

media, that that team was stillâ¦

I, the, I- there, I've had a coup-
there's another one that was really

good at this, but you guys were the
best practicing team I've ever coached.

I mean, we reallyâ¦

There were days where I, like, had
to stop you guys 'cause I thought you

were gonna kill each other, right?

It was World War III every day, right?

And even, even e- even the things
that nobody saw coming, we saw

them, because we saw it every day.

It wasn't producing on the, quote
unquote, "scoreboard", but we saw it

every day, so you're absolutely spot on.

Like, that's the truth about who
you guys were, like, building that,

um, that, um, repetition every day
that turned into a championship.

Yeah.

Seth and I, we never tried killing
each other in practice, ever.

Oh, God.

I think someone was the king of almost
killing people in practice- â¦ but we

won't call out names right now at all.

Yeah, it's funny that, uh, Seth, when
you told your story how Coach P was

like, "You look like a football player."

Well, Coach Sanders always would
say that I played basketball

like a football player.

You did.

100%.

Dude, the worst- 100%.

Worst drill was the outside
rebounding when Toby would get a

full head of steam sprinting up the
lane and you had to box him out.

Put his shoulder down.

Golly.

Oh, yeah.

The funny thing is, I don't think I was
even a good football player, to be honest.

Youâ¦

Well, if you had locked in like you were
with basketball, you'd have been a really

good football player, because you- Yeah
â¦ didn't have to worry about what the play

was, just go take somebody's head off.

You'd have been really- Well, my favorite
part of football was defense, so.

I'm sure it was.

Decapitation.

Yeah.

All right, Toby, thanks for that.

All right, Seth, g- give us,
give us the, give us how you

saw, as a freshman, man, thisâ¦

I, I think I had forgotten that you
were, you know, were, m- I mean, that's

the end of your freshman year, so you'd
been through a lot, but you- Mm-hmm

walking in that season,
what was that like?

How'd that happen?

Man, the, the one w- if I can boil it
down to one word, it, it was attitude.

Mm.

Um, and it was not like attitude
that most people think of.

You know, it was the attitude of we're
going to serve Christ in everything we do.

Let the chips fall where they may.

God is faithful.

I remember, you know, like our, a song we
played over and over again, like during

warmups, during stretching for practices,
was, uh, Man of Your Word and Promises.

And we would play that by Maverick
City Music almost every single day.

The team devotions we had, like that's
what sticks out to me some of the most.

Mm.

Um, was the leadership on that team,
uh, Zach, uh, Quez, Brayden, umâ¦

I'm trying to think who e- well,
Toby, were you a leader that year?

N- no, I don'tâ¦

Maybe.

No, you were.

You were.

I- You were.

Well, you were because, okay, you were
because- I can't remember if it was my

senior year or junior year â¦ Well,
well, because, because we, that

was when we started implementing
juniors into the program of the- Okay

the leadership program, so you were.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I remember.

Yep, yep.

And just, I, that's the main thing
I remember is the leadership on that

team and the importance we had placed
on scripture and the importance

we had placed on faithfulness.

And so we would go to war, you know,
and practice every single day, get

heated, and then we'd walk out and we'd
hug each other and love on each other.

go to Bible study with each other,
go to classes with each other.

And it was just this attitude of we're
gonna remain faithful with, with what God

has given us, and we're gonna do our best.

We're gonna be good stewards of
what God has given us- Come on.

Wow â¦ and then see
what God grants us with.

Mm.

You know, w- we can't be
responsible with a lot if we're

not responsible with a little bit.

Ooh.

Um, and so as we just walked through
all those, those games and practices

and the, the draw of, you know,
and not, the work not showing up on

the scoreboard, um, that we saw in
the practice, you know, it justâ¦

As Toby, you were talking about,
uh, how it reminds you of Christ, it

reminded me of Proverbs 24:16, which
has been on my heart a lot recently.

"The godly may trip seven times,
but they will get up again-

Come on â¦ but one disaster is
enough to overthrow the wicked."

Whoo.

And all those battles we went through,
you know, how many times we saw other

teams who weren't grounded, who didn't
have that attitude of faithfulness,

like destroy them with just two losses
or one loss, and we just kept our

heads down with the attitude- Come on

of we remain faithful, uh, and receive
what God grants us, but do our best,

do what, what He has asked us to do
and let the chips fall where they may.

Okay, so, uh, this, I'm, I'ma,
I'ma tie this in a little bit here,

uh, with a couple of questions.

But I don't know if you guysâ¦

And I, I already know Toby's answer
to this, 'cause he doesn't remember,

because he said he doesn't remember,
so I'm just gonna take him at his word.

But I think going back, I think I
counted somewhere between seven and 11.

So I can't remember the exact
number, so I'm, I'm pulling a Toby

here, that we lost se- between
seven and 11 games by three or less.

Do you remember that?

Yeah.

And I, I think- Yeah, I do â¦ what
gets lost in that championship is

imagine if we won those 11 games.

Right.

On the other side of it, now we gotâ¦

We, we won 18 games, and it's interesting
because, um, I, I ask this question a lot.

How many games does it actually
take to win a championship?

And it doesn'tâ¦

E- even though you feel like it's gotta
be 18, 20, 25, 30, it really doesn't.

Because if, if you stick to the process,
and everyone believes, and you practice

like you're champions, it will show up.

'Cause that's exactly
what happened, right?

Mm-hmm.

That make sense?

Okay.

All right.

So two questions here.

Seth, I'm gonna stick and stay
with you, give you the first.

This one's, this one's gonna be a,
a out of nowhere kind of question,

but it'll be easy to answer.

What did I do as the coach?

Because remember, we're talking
to coaches on this podcast.

Uh- Yeah â¦ what did I do
that actually helped that team?

I think a big piece of it was you
implemented the, I mean, the devotions,

the worship nights that we had,
uh, and, and made those mandatory.

Like, it wasn't a, "Hey, I
feel like going to this."

It was a, "Hey, as a team, we're gonna
sit down and we're gonna worship."

Come on.

Um, and that wasâ¦

I mean, that is one of the biggest
things that stuck out to me throughout

that year, was as 15 dudes sitting
down and just worshiping together,

uh, so that we can trust each other,
love each other in a deeper way.

That, that brotherhood of Christ became
so much deeper- Wow â¦ because we

weren't just bonding over basketball
and, "Oh, yeah, we have faith."

It was, we're bonding over faith and
then, oh, yeah, we have basketball

to play with each other, too.

Um, that was the, one of
the biggest things for me.

Um- So good â¦ and then- So
good â¦ place- placing those

leaders, uh, in the, the position
they were, um, where it wasn't just,

you know, boss man that makes all the
rules, that makes all the decisions.

It was the, the, the Tobys, the
Zachs, the Quezes, the Bradens who

took your ideas and your, uh, I'm
trying to think of the word, but your

understanding and your wisdom and
brought it down to a, a player level.

Wow.

And seeing these four guys who had
bought into the mission instead of

just you who had this mission, it was,
it was deeper than, uh, just coach.

It was the- Wow â¦ entire team's mission.

My goodness.

All right, Toby Man, how am I ever
supposed to follow up Seth, man?

That was so good.

Oh, man.

You can tell he's a senior pastor, 'cause
his, uh, his, it's like line on line.

He's, he's full-blown
Isaiah, like 30- Yeah â¦ 45.

Like, just all over it.

That's awesome.

Um, yeah.

Um, well, something Seth said
earlier that, um, stood out

to me, um, was just the, the
accountability we had as teammates.

Mm.

Um, and I think you really, um,
steward that well as a coach.

Mm.

Um, you, you let us know as players that,
um, we are responsible for one another,

for holding each other accountable.

Um, and- Mm

the, the way you steward that is by,
uh, showing us what it looks like to

correct a teammate, like, in love, and
being able to- Come on â¦ receive that.

Mm, come on.

And so, yeah, so there was
many times where, umâ¦

And I feel like, um, other years,
or especially my senior year, we

didn't do that well as a team.

We would, you know, go at each
other's throats when things went bad.

Um, whereas this junior year team,
we were able to be like, "Hey,

cut that out," and knock it off.

Yeah.

You know?

Mm-hmm.

Like, go, go at it with, um, you know,
calling it out, but- Come on â¦ with

love, and then being able to receive it.

Yeah.

And, um- Wow â¦ I feel like you as
a coach were even able to do that.

Like, we were able to, um, come
to you and, uh, correct you,

and, uh, you know- Absolutely.

Absolutely.

No, absolutely.

I think that's powerful.

All right, so then flip
that question on its head.

What did I not do good that helped?

Um, so I feel like, uh, there was a
couple times where, uh, you were still

kind of coming out of hothead Sanders.

Yeah.

True.

Um- True.

Very true.

Yeah.

Yep.

I was.

I think, I think there might
have been one practice where a, a

chair got thrown onto the court.

I don't have any idea about
what you're talking about.

Uh, which, which again, I think, I think,
uh, every coach, I think there is a time

and a place to get on your players and
to- Sure â¦ um, 'cause it, it, it'll,

it instills like, um, a motivation and
like, "Okay, we gotta, we gotta lock in."

Yeah.

Um, so there is a time, like you
can't just be, "Nah," all the time.

You got, there are, there is a time
and place to get on the players.

But I remember specifically, I don't,
I don't remember if it was this year or

not, but there was a couple times where
like we went at it on the sideline, like

coming out of the game, and, uh, you
had the, the maturity to like, not after

the game, but during the game, come to
me and apolog- like apologize and be

like, "Hey, um, you're doing a goodâ¦

You're doing a great job.

Like, sorry for getting on, on you andâ¦"

'Cause like there were, there were
times where like we would go at it.

Absolutely.

And- Yeah â¦ um, instead of-
Yeah â¦ just letting it sit there.

Yeah.

Or like be- Mm-hmm â¦ you know, you would
go, not just let it, not just let it sit.

You would attack it, you know?

In- in, infest her.

Yeah.

Like a, like a sore.

Absolutely, yeah.

Yeah.

Um- That's good, Toby.

That's really good.

I, I think it's important that
people hear, 'cause I, I try toâ¦

I'm, obviously you know
how transparent I am.

I try to be very vulnerable in this thing.

Like, I, I did those things, threw
clipboards, threw pens, kick chairs,

whatever, the whole kind, because,
because I was stuck in that mode of

like, this is a machine and we're
trying to win a championship, and Iâ¦

You lose sight of the whole person, right?

That didn't help anybody.

Seth, what, what about you?

Two, I mean, it's hard for
me for a couple reasons.

One, because I came in as you
were working on that transition-

Yeah â¦ out of that time, right?

That was- Yeah â¦ like one of the
first years that you were really being

conscious about the player instead
of just the cog in the machine.

Yeah.

Um, but two, it's also the senior pastor
in me of I see the best in everything-

â¦ until it just blows up in my face.

Yeah, I get it.

And I get hurt.

I get it.

So, I mean, it's hard for me
to, to point to something that's

like, "This was not g- well done."

Um- Okay.

All right.

Well, I appreciate that bec- well, you,
uh, Toby, the thing I appreciate about

both of you, but Toby in a different,
because you both are in different roles

in your life right now as a, you know, le-
senior pastor and then a, a youth pastor.

Like y- you, the lens that you see
everything through is so different,

like, and a part of your upbringing.

And then so I, I think people
can really appreciate that.

I think that's really, really important.

Okay, so as we begin to land the plane
on here on part one, uh, Seth, we'll

stick and stay with you on this question.

Um, and this one, this one to me makes
me think about 1 Corinthians 1:27, "God

chooses what the world considers weak
to display- Mm-hmm â¦ His strength."

I think about that with basketball.

That's why I'm doing Redeeming the Game.

The point is that basketball is ministry.

Basketball was created to win
people, win men and women for

the master Jesus through the gym.

So with that being, with that being, um,
in, uh, illuminated, and that scripture

being illuminated, what did basketball
teach you about God in every form?

And I, Iâ¦

This one can go wild, so do your
best to try to keep it â¦ Try to

keep it, maybe narrow it down to a
couple of points, 'cause I know that

b- for both of you it can go wild.

Uh, I mean, to go back all the way to
the, the attitude that I talked about with

the, the championship, I think it taught
me so much more about God's faithfulness-

Wow â¦ than I ever could have imagined.

Um, just the, you know, i- in the promises
of God that we can count as yes and amen.

Um, you know, it, it taught so much.

Matthew 6:33, "Seek first the Kingdom
of God and live righteously, and all

else will be taken care of," for lack
of- Come on â¦ a better way to put it.

Yes, good.

And as we walked in that faithfulness
and in that, that just righteous

attitude of, "Okay, I'm still
gonna stumble, but you know what?

I'm gonna get back up, keep my head,
keep my eyes focused on Christ and

keep walking," we saw the faithfulness
of God grow because each and every

guy had a deeper relationship with
Christ when we left that gym that

year than when we first walked in.

Mm.

Um, and it specifically reminds
me of the national tournament.

When we showed up- â¦ got there,
and all of a sudden we're at the

chapel, and they're like, "Oh,
yeah, the band couldn't make it.

We need somebody."

And Ike and Zeb- or not Zeb, Ike and
Quez and Coach Robbie jumped up and

led worship at the national tournament.

Crazy.

That's crazy.

Like, God's faithfulness of,
like, He had this designed for us.

He knew this was gonna take place.

He had this for- predestined
that this would come to fruition.

Come on.

That we had this work to do
throughout this season so that

we could be at that point.

Because I still remember the amount of
guys who walked up to our team at the

end of that worship night and said,
"That was the first time I ever prayed."

And it gave me chills then- Ooh â¦ and
it gives me chills now that, like- Mm

â¦ God's promise of, "Seek first the Kingdom
and all else will be taken care of."

And, you know, of course we had that
desire to win that championship, to make

it to that stage, but it transcended.

God's plan transcended our, our desire.

Our desire lined up with
God's, but yet He hasâ¦

His plan was so much greater- Come
on â¦ that it would impact five or six

guys who would pray for the first time
in their life because the worship band

couldn't make it, and three of our guys
stepped up and led worship that night.

My goodness.

Like, the faithfulness of God showed
up in such greater ways than I

ever could have imagined that year.

Yeah, that list is long.

Yeah.

Toby?

Yeah, that was such an incredible moment.

Wow.

Um, I kind of, I didn't forget about
it, but, you know, it unlocked the,

like, the memories of being in that
chapel, um, surrounded by all these

guys from all over the country, you
know, it was at the Nashville church.

Yeah.

And just, uh, lifting up praise to the
Lord, and it was, like, just so cool just

to see our guys leading that, and, uh, and
obviously the prayer that happened after.

Man, that was such a cool moment.

Um, but back to the question about
what basketball taught me about God.

Uh, one thing I super appreciated
and really valued about, um, our team

is we always said this, "It's Jesus
first, then school, then basketball."

Come on.

And so, um- Basketball, um, was last on
the list, uh, not because, you know, we're

not putting time to it or, you know, it's
least it's- Those other two things will

bleed into basketball, and like we've been
talking about, that year we had worship.

Weâ¦

There was times when, uh, we walked into
the gym with a practice plan, canned

it, and- Come on â¦ we partnered up
and we prayed because- Mm-hmm â¦ like

that's what we needed more than, um-
Come on â¦ basketball in that moment.

And, um, and then obviously school,
like we're studying the word of God

or whatever our classes are, but also
if we're not passing our classes,

then we can't play basketball.

That's so powerful.

S- that's really true, yeah.

And this, uh, this says a lot about,
um, that championship team that year

is I, I think we were like, um, the
highest percentage of like all As

or like the high, you know, like we
were one of the highest GPA teams in

the, in the history of the program.

100%.

And so that, that, that just, you
know, kind of speaks for itself and,

um- Man â¦ a contributing factor of
a championship team is, I mean, we

were putting in work not only off the
court, not only on the court, but off

the court, you know, in the classroom.

Um, it showed our work ethic.

And so anyway.

That's pow- good gracious, that's good.

Yeah.

So, um, what it really taught me about
God is, uh, that our faith is also like

a spiritual, um, not a spiritual, our,
our faith is like, um, also exercising.

We have to exercise our faith- Wow

â¦ just like we

exercise basketball.

Wow.

And I actually use that illustration
a lot with, uh, my, uh, students

that I minister to is 'cause most
of them are athletes, and I honestly

want to find a way to, umâ¦

Well, I already use
basketball, um, with students.

Like we play pickup games.

We, we shoot hoops and stuff, but, um,
it'd be cool to see if I could get more

involved in the basketball program at
Waverly with the students, you know.

But anyway I use illustration
a lot because so many of the

students are also athletes.

Yeah.

And it's like when, when you're
an athlete, you have to get in

the gym, you have to lift weights.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you have to practice.

There's so much more that goes into
it- So good â¦ just the game or the,

the performance of the final game.

There's so much going into it.

And so- Mm-hmm â¦ like with
my relationship with God,

I need to put in the work.

I need to be in the Word.

I need to be praying.

And, um, I don't always do a great job
of that full transparency, and I can see

it in my life when I'm not doing that.

Absolutely.

And I'm coming out of a season of,
you know, just summer, uh, running

all over the place, not really have,
like, making the time to be in the

Word, and you see the effect of that in
your life when you're not in the Word.

Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so, uh, that really was one
of the main takeaways of basketball

and my relationship with God is,
man, my game needs work, so does

my relationship with the Lord.

Come on.

That's powerful.

Um.

That's really good, Toby.

I, I think it is a, um, a powerful
way to end part one and, and just,

just, just to, to put a bow on it.

The Scripture says that, "God is
working both the willing and the doing

of His good pleasure in our lives."

So He is working in all
of the things that we do.

Romans 8:28, "He works out
all things for good," right?

So basketball is good, and Iâ¦

It's funny you said that, Toby,
and I'm gonna land the plane,

um, on part one with this.

Uh, Jesus, academics, and basketball,
and little did I know, had I known this

when I was coaching you, I would have
never, I would have never put it that way.

Because basketball itself is a ministry.

Mm.

And it was created to win
people to Jesus, and it works.

The, it, there, what I'm
saying is they're not one, two.

They're, they coincide because Dr.

Naismith's dream, his vision, it
became, it, basketball went global

because of Christian missionaries.

I mean, it has always been-
Mm-hmm â¦ ministry, and

man, I wish I knew that then.

And I, and, and you
should use that message.

You should use the origin story
of basketball when you talk

to other athletes, basketball
players about the game.

That's why we love it,
because God loves it too.

And that, the, the way I
want to w- end it is this.

God for, for God so loved the
world that He sent His only Son

so that none of us will perish.

And I want you to think about that.

He loves us so much that He- By
his infinite wisdom gives Dr.

Naismith a dream and a vision
that a game could be ministry.

And that's why it's so powerful.

And we all loved it, and all of
the things that come from it, the

relationships of love, the games we
love, the practice we love, which is

why we all seek after the kingdom by
the Spirit and by the Word, because we

love God, because He first loved us.

'Cause basketball was God's idea.

What a way to end it.

Well, I appreciate you boys, and
as we say each and every week, um,

we're redeeming this game one family,
one coach, and one play at a time.

Ladies and gentlemen, we'll see
you f- for part two next week.

Hope this blesses you

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