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Join me, Jess VanderWier, a registered psychotherapist, mom of three, and founder of Nurtured First, along with my husband Scott, as we dive deep into the stories of our friends, favourite celebrities, and influential figures.
In each episode, we skip the small talk and dive into vulnerable and honest conversations about topics like cycle breaking, trauma, race, mental health, parenting, sex, religion, postpartum, healing, and loss.
We are glad you are here.
PS: The name Robot Unicorn comes from our daughter. When we asked her what we should name the podcast, she confidently came up with this name because she loves robots, and she loves unicorns, so why not? There was something about the playfulness of the name, the confidence in her voice, and the fact that it represents that you can love two things at once that just felt right.
Welcome to Robot Unicorn, hosted by my parents, Jess and Scott.
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Good morning.
Hi.
How are you?
I'm fine.
You ready for good?
Thank you so much for asking.
This.
Am I ready for this?
Day two of recording.
Well, more so personal questions for you.
Oh, yeah.
I'm fine with that.
I've nothing to hide.
Everyone wants to learn more about the man behind the I don't think these are questions just for me, are we?
There's a couple just for you in there.
Actually, yeah
I I feel like there's a few.
Well especially the ones that you start are.
I start the I start I know people want to know more about you.
I feel like I talk a lot about my experience of the
It's like who's Scott?
You do talk a lot.
That's true.
Who could he be?
No.
But it's not just we're not just doing questions about you.
This is a listener QA episode.
Yeah.
And we received a lot of questions.
Yeah.
But we're gonna try and keep this one a little bit shorter this week.
Yeah.
So that you're engaged and not bored by personal questions.
Because people listening probably care more about the actual topics that we cover on this podcast.
Yeah, there'll be some maybe some tips in here, but this is a little more personal.
Will there?
Well, I don't know.
Well I I mean we'll find out.
We don't even know what we're gonna say yet.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And so sometimes you just have to start talking and then see what happens.
Okay, well let's just get started on this episode of QA's from listeners.
And just so you know if you're listening, if you follow us on Instagram.
From time to time, we'll post a question box on our Instagram page and ask people for questions they want us to answer about ourselves or
Anything.
So let's get started.
Okay, the first question uh is Scott neurodivergent?
Yeah, I started that one.
I thought we we haven't talked about that.
So have we not?
I don't think so
Well, I have ADHD.
Is that considered neurodivergent?
That would be.
Okay, then yes.
When did you find out you had ADHD?
Earlier this year.
Although I s
we, I, whatever, suspected it for a long time.
Yeah.
Uh but yeah.
Just this year.
And what was that process like for you to find out that you had ADHD?
Like how did it feel when you learned that about yourself
Good question.
I think it's helpful to know it and understand a bit more about it.
And I've been reading up a lot on it and understanding what it takes to
Essentially, you can use the neurodivergent brain, I guess, that I have to potentially do things better than some other people that are neurotypical, but then also
I get very easily distracted.
So it's just trying to figure out how to navigate that where there's a certain level of creativity that I've always had.
Mm-hmm.
And desire to not do the same thing or eat the same food all the time or whatever.
A lot of different things.
I don't know that it's has it really changed the way I do things though.
I feel like it's changed.
Like so actually
Some history with Scott and I both got diagnosed with ADHD earlier this year.
So first me and then Scott.
Yeah, and the main reason I ended up going in is because I took the same
form or survey that you did and I scored far worse on most of the things.
Yeah.
So it's interesting and I mean I see this in my work, but the way it plays out is often different in males and females.
And so for me, the way that ADHD plays out for me often looks like still f I think forgetfulness, getting easily distracted, but also a hard time focusing.
And that was
I actually went in with anxiety and then left with the ADHD diagnosis, but I definitely also have anxiety, but
I think a lot of my anxiety was around my ADHD symptoms, like forgetting, not being able to follow a schedule very well, trying to follow
focus on something just like not being able to do it, especially tasks that are not interesting to me are like literally painful to do.
And I have to do a lot of things that aren't interesting now that I'm working full time.
And that's really hard.
And
Well, and running a couple businesses, it's uh there's a lot of things that you don't necessarily want to do, but you have to.
Right, running a few businesses and I would find myself like numbers would get jumbled around in my head, words would get jumbled around, like it would just be really hard to think straight
And I feel like I would always say that like I just can't think straight about this.
So for me getting diagnosed with ADHD also helped me have a lot of sympathy on my younger self.
what has helped me understand how my brain works, why sometimes it's really hard to think straight, and medication has been super helpful in my journey.
And then for you, I think ADHD as a child probably played out a lot different.
You were the one who was fidgety, had a hard time sitting in school.
Oh yeah, I was very hyperactive.
You had the hyperactive, and I never have had that
I get very overstimulated very quickly.
Yeah.
And like the opposite.
Like I'd be the sensory avoider where you'd be the sensory seeker.
And so I think that's just interesting to see how that plays out in marriage with two people with ADHD that are extremely different.
It
shows up differently in both of us.
And I would say for me, knowing that I would forget things, I a long time ago.
It probably helped that I got to travel as much as I did because I was on a plane and when I was travelling.
I mean there was no Wi Fi when I was
flying.
So you would be stuck there in your seat for however many hours.
And I read tons of books and one of them was on how to organize your life so you wouldn't forget things because I kept forgetting stuff.
And
Since then.
I feel like I have a pretty good system where I it's pretty rare that I forget anything important because I'm Scott has systems.
Yeah, I create very clear systems that help me not
Forget things.
Whereas I find it very hard to stick to systems.
I try my best, but it's very difficult for me.
I think also I'm more of like daydreaming, like da da da.
Like I feel like you I always did that too.
You can be too, but
You are better at sticking to a system than I am.
And creating the systems.
Yeah.
I guess maybe our creativity is just different.
I'm creative in terms of like writing, like thinking through a concept in a new way, whatever.
You're also very creative, but it just looks different for you.
Yeah, I feel like that's what's helped us run our businesses together, right?
Yeah.
I think because I found a system that worked for me, it made me very interested in
getting things to run efficiently operationally.
So I think that's helped us in the work that we do, create these systems that allow us to have a smaller team that does far more better work than a lot of other companies would
Yeah.
Scott's very good at that.
So I feel like it's interesting, but I will say for me, getting the ADHD diagnosis was, I would say, very life-changing.
Just in terms of
understanding myself and having compassion on myself for things I used to like really beat myself up over, like just why can't you be like this?
Like and like I would always just think I was just not very smart or just not very good at things.
And now I can be like
your brain works different.
And I can have compassion on myself and also try and figure out ways to help me with those things that are just always going to be trickier.
Just because of the way my brain is wired.
Okay.
This next question.
Parenting as someone with childhood trauma given uncertainty and stress in the world, how do you do it?
That's for you.
I would say that given that I know I grew up in a traumatic household, it's taken, I think, extra effort to understand
my shortcomings and like really I don't know I try and reflect on the way I act throughout the day or a week or whatever.
Maybe it's not every day that I do that.
Obviously I still have days where I'm short with the kids or whatever.
But I think it's just I've tried to over the years figure out how I can change the trajectory of, let's say, my kids' lives now
And even before that, I feel like I was doing it a little bit, but after we had our first, I feel like that's when I really tried to focus on learning how to think and act better.
I don't know how how how else to describe it.
Like I've gone to therapy not super regularly, but during tougher moments I've done that to try and work through and understand and figure out how to
think through the difficult situations.
But I feel like the question is more like I understood it more as like things that are going on in the news, like
politics, the world, like difficult things, like how do you handle that when you grew up with like I know like you went to therapy and all that, but like
Are there certain things that you do to help yourself handle traumatic things in the world without spiralling or getting Honestly for me that I don't see that as it's not a huge issue for me.
'Cause pretty much any difficult situation, let's say, we've experienced
or that has happened after I left my childhood home.
Yeah, there's been a lot of things that have been challenging, but I feel like it's been rare
if it's ever happened, that something has been worse.
So then I feel like I've experienced worse, I can handle this, I can work through it, or I can
help my family through it.
I don't know.
I feel like that's kind of more my mindset is I've been through worse and I know a lot worse is possible so then I'm not it doesn't like
beat me down to I don't know being incapable of doing anything.
Yeah, that makes sense.
That's kinda I don't know.
That's my mindset more
I would say for myself, not that I went through childhood trauma, but like to handle the world news and stuff, because I do feel like some of us are just more sensitive to that.
I think some people, like I used to be on the news constantly, like always reading the news.
I literally would like follow, you know, whatever police station like updates.
see the crime in our area.
It was almost obsessive the way that I would check it and and know what was going on in the world in a way that was unhealthy and fueled my anxiety.
So I feel like for people who are struggling with this
Like they often are very anxious, right?
And it's like, well, I think sometimes anxiety tells us if I know more, then I can do more to protect my kids, like that kind of thing.
That is something that I
end up doing, right?
I research a lot and it's kind of a protective measure to make sure I have all the data because I can't necessarily trust others to do
So sometimes it is about like do I really have to r like for me with the police news, right?
Like do I really need to know about all the crime that's going on around me all the time?
Like is that actually helping me protect my family
Or is that just making me more anxious and like have more of a bias to say that for sure something bad's gonna happen in our house, right?
So I started to learn like that's unhealthy for me.
I don't actually need to know
Every single thing that's going on.
Or I don't have to be on the news every single day.
That's actually not helping my family
And so sometimes it is about figuring out where those boundaries are for you, where like your anxiety might tell you you have to know everything, but is that actually helpful?
Don't that you think that that's more service level though, answer to this question?
Like yes, not reading the news and all that.
It's better to understand why you're doing that in the first place and why you feel the need to Totally
Research so much or read the news so much?
I think both are true.
Like you don't necessarily just stop there, but that's like even some people will like re-traumatize themselves just by like watching TV shows about
childhood and like childhood trauma happens on the show over and over where they're watching like these like murder shows.
Like I had a client be like, I can never sleep at night.
It's like, oh what do you watch before bed?
And it was always like some gruesome murder documentaries or something, right?
So I know that that feels surface level, but sometimes you have to stop doing those things to be able to get to the deeper point where you can understand why you're actually doing it.
And I just feel like we can get very fixated on what's going on in the news and it's not always healthy for us.
Fair enough.
Here's a less serious one for you, Jess.
Your favorite F one driver and team.
And this person says our family loves watching together.
Do I have a favorite F1 driver?
I don't think I have a favorite.
I just kind of go for whoever I have.
Whoever's winning.
I always tell you that I like Lando Norris because I always used to like them.
They'd be like a young Lando Norris.
Yeah.
They used to call him a young Lando.
I always liked it when they called him a young Lando, but that was like five years ago.
Whenever he started.
I think they still called him that two years ago.
Yeah.
Yep.
A young Lando.
A young Lando.
But yeah, I always liked the McLaren's, I think
I like Lando and I like Oscar, so that's probably usually who I'm rooting for, those two.
Those are your favorite, in your words, characters?
Those are my favorite characters, yeah.
How about you?
You're wearing a McLaren t-shirt.
Yeah, I know.
I wouldn't say McLaren is my favorite or not favorite.
I don't know.
For whatever reason with F1 I've enjoyed for
I don't know, the past decade now.
And I've gone in spurts of like favoring one team over another, and it's usually the underdog that I'm favoring.
Because McLaren is so far ahead, even though Max has been winning, I kind of am cheering for him right now, mostly because I want there to be a bit more
Fighting the front for the first place podium.
But yeah, it changes all the time.
If Fernando was right behind, I would do the same thing for him.
Yeah, though that totally makes sense.
This person asks, how do you emotionally move on when our children grow?
Well, you don't.
And this person says, I'm struggling with birthday sadness.
I guess this is a great question for you, because you don't.
I don't.
I read this question and I was just like, oh, I get it.
Like I just want to give the mom a hug.
You were probably tearing up as you read it.
I was.
There's nothing that just, ooh, hurts my heart more
Than our children getting older.
And I feel like it's just the summer became so real to me because our youngest is three, so she's not in diapers anymore.
She's not napping anymore.
And I feel like I could see it from this bigger perspective that I'm like, oh my goodness, they are all getting so much older and it's just never gonna stop and we're never gonna be in the baby stage again.
Unless we decide to have a fourth child randomly.
Randomly.
But I felt it so much and I already have nostalgia
for like the current moment and I just know that I'm gonna miss it and it's just getting me.
The older our kids get, the harder it is for me.
Birthdays are harder.
Watching them go to a new grade is harder.
And so I feel like how do you get through it?
You cry and you allow yourself to feel the emotions.
And try and savor the moments that you have and like do what you can to create the memories that you want to look back on forever and recognize in yourself that the feeling that you're having makes a lot of sense
So I feel like there's no way through it but through it.
And I think there's something like my friend came over the other morning.
It was her daughter's first day of daycare, her son's last day of daycare before he went off to school
And we just like had a cry.
She's like, have the tissues ready.
Like when she got there, we just both had a cry together just over how fast time is is going.
Right.
And I feel like sometimes that's the best thing that you can do.
So
Take lots of pictures, build lots of memories and I feel like it would be easy.
So I think honestly that feeling gets worse the more you spend.
time with your kids and the more moments you're trying to create with them.
Like it almost feels as though it makes it even more painful that they're growing up because you don't want to be out of it.
But I think that's still better than the alternative of trying to push them to do other things independently too soon and I don't know.
I feel like you don't really
I try and remember it.
How much I still am involved with my parents and like, okay.
Because some people be like, oh, you only have 18 years of your kids.
It's like, okay, well
It's kinda true though.
I mean it's true where they're little, but at the same time, it's not like you just don't have them anymore.
Like after we had our oldest, I still called my mom every day and was like, How do you do this?
Just the way that they need you changes.
But I try and remember it's not like
we won't have them.
I don't know, but it's hard, so I don't really have an answer.
There's no way to get over it.
You have to just feel it.
Accept it.
Yeah.
Feel it.
Hey friends, so at pickup last week our daughter asked Scott a truly kind of tricky question in front of her younger siblings.
Scott was telling me that when he heard a question like this, he used to panic, but this time he had a plan.
And he said to our daughter, thank you for asking.
Let's talk tonight when we've got privacy.
And that's a line that he learned straight from our new body safety and consent course at Nurtur.
So this new body safety and consent course is taught by me.
So Jess, if you listen to this podcast, you know me.
I'm a child therapist and a mom of three, and I have taught body safety and consent education for years.
This course takes all my years of experience teaching this education and gives you calm, age-appropriate language for body parts, consent, and boundaries.
You'll learn how to teach your kids that no means no, you'll learn how to teach them to read facial cues, you'll talk about safe and unspeakable.
safe touch and you'll even teach them about their uh oh feeling.
There's guidance inside this course for the real life stuff like tickling that goes too far and even the difference between a secret and a surprise.
We made this course at Nurture First because research shows that body safety education helps kids speak
sooner and we want that for our family, for Scott and I, but also for you.
So check the course out at nurturefirst.
com slash body safety and to save 10% use the code
Robot Unicorn.
And just full disclosure here, we are the creators of this course and we're so proud of it.
Okay, next question is how did you get Skeptical Scott to listen to podcasts, read, learn, grow on parenting?
Great question.
How did I get you?
I lured him in slowly.
I think
Because it was my line of work that was different because I was always talking to you about things I was learning, things I was doing.
Like we were together during my entire education.
So I think you saw
my passion for it and I often would just tell you things whether or not you were asking me questions about it.
And then I think we had and we've talked about this on the podcast
before when our oldest became a toddler, then you started having more questions for me.
But I think the difference between us and maybe a lot of other couples who have a skeptical partner
is I was educated in the field.
And I was working in it every day.
I already had your trust in that way
I think.
Like you were still very skeptical of everything I was saying.
I definitely push back.
You push back a lot and it was so annoying.
Yeah, Jess has become more accustomed to it, although it still probably annoys her a bit.
I don't push back quite as hard
Anymore.
Well, I you're on board.
Yeah.
Right.
You might push back on little pieces here and there, but for the most part we're on the same page.
Whereas like I remember the first time I was telling you, like, we're not punishing our kids.
We're not doing that
And you were like, well, what about this?
What about that?
And like you would just give me all these scenarios.
What about if they killed a bird?
Then what?
I feel like you had every scenario you could think of
And he would just like push me to be like, Okay, but seriously, if they did this, don't you think then it would make sense to punish them?
And I'd be like, Well no, because da da da da da And I think th what helped maybe is I have always been good at allowing you to ask questions.
And I think I've always so long as I've been a therapist teaching this, I've been quite confident in my answers.
And so I could handle your questions.
And I wasn't
scared to answer you and if I didn't have an answer, it's similar to now with this podcast.
If I didn't have an answer or like I needed some time to think about it, I would tell you.
Then I would go do some research and then I'd come back and be like, okay, now I have my answer for you
So I think that that's something that is important if you're in a couple and you're trying to sort out your stances, like not to be so defensive.
Like I was never like, oh Scott, you cruel, heartless person who wants to punish our child for Yeah, right
Killing a bird that has never happened, but you know, hypothetically if that were to happen, you know.
Yeah, I asked that from like other kids or people who are kids.
Certain things, right?
But I think welcoming your questions and then doing my very best to answer them got you started.
And then you read then I gave you a few good book options, I think, that I was like, I think you'll really like this
Um one of them was Rest Play Grow by Dr.
Deborah McNamara and I think that one helped you a lot.
That was a really good starting point.
I feel like there was a bunch more that preceded that.
Oh yeah?
That was before that?
But I can't remember
That was a long time ago at this point.
But I think you were willing to ask hard questions and I was willing to try and answer them.
And I think that was the biggest thing
That was important.
One thing that just in general, I'm not talking about you, but one thing that in general bothers me is when someone is very confident.
and what they're saying doesn't seem logical to me.
And they have no way of backing up what they're saying.
So that's even like with work, someone says, oh, like we have to do this and this will happen.
I'll be like, what that doesn't make any sense.
How do you know that?
And then if someone's response is, well, people say it, like that's just known.
Yeah, yeah.
Then um I usually push back and be like, I don't believe that then.
I guess what probably also helped you is that what I was saying wasn't just my own thoughts.
Yeah.
It was research backed.
Well, and you were writing blog posts at the time that had long citations.
Yeah, works cited on them and obviously I had gone to school for over eight years and I've been studying this
like all of this, right?
So when I would tell you something, it wouldn't just be like, well this is just why, like I just think this.
It'd be like, well, no, Scott, like this is what research says about children and their behavior.
Yeah, there were studies done on this and
And so you couldn't really argue with that.
And then you being the skeptical person you'd be like, okay, well fine, I'll look it up myself.
And you'd look it up and be like, oh shit, she's right.
Yep.
So I think that's always important for me when skeptical people come to the podcast or nurtured first.
It's like, this isn't just my thoughts and ideas that I just made up.
Of course, like some things like
My tiny moments or whatever.
Like I have my little things that I say, but everything is backed by research that we're teaching.
So that should help the skeptical parent.
Yeah, I think I love learning new things.
I've spent lots of time learning how to do different things or understanding the world.
And like I said
The one thing that really bothers me is when there are so-called experts who claim to know things but then back it up by like this is just known or they're not using scientific
Methodology to figure out the answers to their questions or answer people.
And then that bothers me and I my guards go up a bit and I
Typically am very disbelieving at first, and I think when we were having our original conversations, it was very much challenging to w the way I
Thought about everything.
Yeah, everything.
Parenting, whatever.
But you wore me down, you know?
You wore me down.
No, it was more you just you showed me actual evidence of what you were saying.
Yeah, and I remember a lot of this came to light because I wanted to r record a parenting course and I remember saying to Scott Forever, like, hey, I think people would really value a parenting course and there wasn't really a lot of parenting courses out there at the time.
And I'm like, I
Promise you, people are gonna want this information because I'm teaching this every single day.
So then I started writing parenting little kids based on all the things I was teaching my clients every day.
And it probably took me a year to like write this course up, like kind of on the side
And then it came time to record it and we sat down.
I didn't have like any crazy script, you know, I just had what I had been working on.
And I sat down to record it.
It's like 9 30 at night 'cause we recorded it in our living room while our toddler was asleep.
And I would start saying stuff and Scott would like
pause the recording and be like, I don't understand that.
What do you mean?
Like what does what does this actually mean?
Like how does this work in practice?
And I'd be like, I want to strangle this guy.
Like I'm so like I'd be so annoyed.
And you'd be like, I don't get it.
Like no one's gonna understand what you're trying to say here.
And so like we'd
talk like literally while we were recording and I'd be like, okay, tomorrow I'm gonna rewrite this in a way that's gonna make sense for logical people.
Yeah, we debated a lot during those are not happy days for
But I think like that helped the course be as helpful as it is for parents.
But also like that showed me what skeptical parents need to hear
because you were that parent who's like, wait, you can't just tell me that punishment's wrong.
That doesn't make sense, Jess.
How is it wrong?
What about this situation?
What about that?
And I'd be like
Okay, go back to the drawing board, rewrite.
So this question, I'm assuming they're asking so that they can potentially convince a partner or
Whatever someone else.
Yeah.
How would you go about trying to because I feel like you didn't necessarily have to convince me, it was more that it was a little bit of convincing, like No, but you were convincing me because let's say we were recording that course.
Yeah
and I'm the one doing the recording and participating in it and then you're explaining these things to the camera and I'm not understanding or I'm like that doesn't make any sense to me.
Like
So I'm asking for kind of evidence or proof that but most people don't have that, right?
So how would you convince someone else that to at least look into
Alternative.
A lot of the parents in our audience, they are in a similar boat, but it's just like their day-to-day life, right?
They're like, hey, I don't wanna send her to timeout every time she has a tantrum.
Right.
And the partner's like, well, why not?
What about this?
What about that?
Like so they are still there.
I think the one thing is like trying to lower your defenses.
Like I see skeptical parents in kind of two boats.
So one is the boat of like they think that
They're genuinely doing what's right for the kid and they genuinely want what's best for their child.
But because of their own upbringing, the things that they've heard, or what they just think is logical.
This is why they're kind of stuck on using a punishment approach.
And I think there's a skeptical parent who literally is just like, this is what I had when I was growing up.
I refuse to change.
I don't actually, I'm not actually interested in hearing anything else
And like they're so closely tied to their beliefs.
So the number one skeptical parent, that was you, right?
You just like genuinely thought this other approach would probably be more effective logically
Yeah.
And so I think you can use logic with those parents.
And I actually find that that's very effective because they want to be logical.
And so if you come at it from like, look, what I'm trying to teach you is research back.
I'm happy to show you the research.
I'm happy to go through it with you.
And I want to answer your questions and like embracing that, I find that works very well.
The other kind of parent I personally struggle with more because they really don't want to change.
And so you kind of have to figure out
Where can you align on your values?
And you kind of have to get to the root of why they don't want to change, which is that's the hardest thing
for them, right?
Figure out why they're so defensive, why they don't want to change and get curious with them.
Those are the ones who take longer.
They they can come around and change, I've seen it, but it is a bit harder.
Yeah, I think that makes sense.
Alright, let's move on.
This person asks, will Scott interview guest therapists?
I think his layman approach is very valuable.
Leyman.
Thank you for that, I guess.
Just a simple man of the woods.
That's a quick one to answer.
Yeah, probably.
I don't know if we're I'm gonna do everyone.
Probably not all.
Sometimes like if we have a guest and they're in person, then it's easier for Scott to be on, but it is just difficult on a virtual podcast to have
three people and for the conversation to flow naturally and for it to just feel natural.
Which is why we've gone to like just me and the guests when we have it virtual.
Yeah.
Typically I will do still a lot of prep work
for the episode.
So I'll give Jess some of my thoughts and questions and stuff and then she'll try and use that throughout the episode.
But yeah, I don't know, virtual
We like in person, but sometimes there's experts we want to interview and they just can't we just can't be in person, right?
So Okay, next question.
How did you decide to have a third child?
Did we?
Did we decide to have a third child?
I feel like with all of them it was kind of like it just happened.
We weren't actively trying to make anything happen, but we also weren't actively trying to not make anything happen.
Yeah.
I think mostly with our third child.
I think that not a surprise, but like I don't think I would have planned to have had kids that close together.
Okay.
Is that fair to say?
Yeah, maybe
Is that like a retrospective view of it though?
Or like no, I think even in the moment.
Like I remember being like, oh no
Like this is gonna be really close together.
And you just Yeah, but it's not like we were actively trying to prevent it from happening either.
I know, but I think I was still breastfeeding and Oh I see.
we might be okay.
Obviously I knew that it was a That was smart of it.
I knew it was a possibility and was like, oh it'll be fine if it does happen.
But I think in my head I'm like, oh it's pretty unlikely that'll it'll happen.
But it did.
Yeah.
Okay, we're just we're gonna skip to the last one here.
Do you have any advice for couples on how to stay strong and connected in between kids, work, household?
I feel like we've talked about this before on episode, no?
Yeah
From what I recall, we talked about there are certain seasons of life where you are busier than others, especially when you have a new baby or something like that.
Or You know what I think about?
I think about two things.
Let me just break it down for you.
One, the Gottmans in their research on couples who are strong, they say that couples who are the strongest regularly do this one thing.
And the one thing that they regularly do
is when one of the people have a bid for connection, the other person returns that bid for connection.
And bids for connection can be anything, from like a smile and you smile back at me to like, hey Scott, you want to sit and have a coffee together?
And you come and sit have
and have coffee with me, right?
Like there's tons of tiny ways that partners have bids for connection during the day.
And I think it's so easy to just ignore your partner.
Like you're probably like Jess, you ignore me all the time.
I was just thinking that like your example of
Scott, would you have a coffee with me?
I feel like that's very much the opposite.
And then you're in bed.
Oh, leave me alone.
I'm tired.
I'm not in those words exactly, but that's what it feels like.
I do try to respond to your bids for c there's just a lot
No, I'm just getting out of There's just a lot.
Thank you.
But even last night, I sat on the couch and then you sat next to me with the pillow and then like leaned the pillow on me, right?
And I was just so touched out.
And I was like, I really just don't feel like Scott leaning on me right now.
But I was like, you know what?
Obviously this is really important to him.
And
I didn't know.
Like I'm a small child.
No, but we kind of are at heart.
He needs some attention right now.
He needs me.
And I just gently struggled his shoulder
But then I was like, Oh, this is actually nice.
Like it's Yeah, you shushed me.
Shh shh shh shh, exactly.
Shh Shut it.
So obviously humor is one way that we stay connected.
No, but I do think for the most part we do try to return each other's bids for connection and even if it's in a simple way and I think that that helps.
The second thing, I was talking to a friend about this recently
is I will do things for you and sometimes you do No, you do things for me too.
Are you trying to say I don't do anything for you?
No, not at all.
No.
Well.
But she said, Will you s do things for Scott and do you feel
resentful or bitter if he doesn't like do things for you in return.
And I say, yeah, like I'll do like little special things for you all the time, right?
Where I'm like, ooh, I know
Like I'm in the area and I know he loves food from this restaurant.
Like I'm just gonna go pick it up for him.
Or the other night, but I was all mad at you for not drinking it, but I was just teasing you.
But
Every night, like I'll get myself a cup of like soda stream water.
We have a soda stream.
And I'll usually pour one for Scott too and just give it to you without you asking.
Usually?
Yeah.
Usu
The reason why I didn't drink it is because I didn't even expect that you would be getting it.
No, I
Okay, that's rude because I actually uh do that quite often for you.
Okay.
And most little things I do for Scots are unnoticed.
Now we'll see.
I'll see that all of a sudden I'm gonna be getting a glass of sparkling water at the end.
You literally do, all the time.
Anyway, clearly he doesn't know there's anything I do, so it doesn't even matter.
Wow.
Anyway, I feel like I do a lot for Scott.
You do.
And I think he's being playful, but I think he knows it
That is actually true.
It is.
Oh, I don't disagree with that.
And I do think that, as much as we're joking, like I do think that that is something that keeps the marriage feel strong.
Not that you can always do that, but we talked about also that it's we're not keeping score on that though.
Like if you do one thing, I don't do one thing in return necessarily right away.
That's what my friend was saying.
She was saying that it's almost like
If she does something, then she almost holds back to do something else until her husband does something, and then he'll hold back until she does.
So it's almost like
Okay, I did something nice for you, now I'll wait for my turn, you know.
Whereas for us, I don't keep score.
I'm like, if I have the opportunity to do something that I know is gonna be nice for you, like something simple like the cup of water that I know you're gonna want or
Oh is that oh no
Or the the roti that'll grab you if I'm in the area or I don't know, just like little things that I know that you'll appreciate.
I feel like
I don't keep score and be like, oh I did six things for Scott.
Like what has he done for me?
You know, I think it's just it's just part of helping the other person feel seen.
I don't know.
Mm-hmm.
But we have an entire episode on this where I talk with Dr.
Tracy that's really helpful as well.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
Nice.
Well I think that's a good place to end.
I think our editor will have fun cutting some.
Yeah, this will be some interesting uh work.
Some interesting work.
He's got his work cut out for him this time.
But yeah, it was a delight, Scott.
Was it?
I don't know.
There were some parts where you had a very serious look on your face.
So There'll be some reprimanding Yeah.
Well how is that different from normal?
So maybe we should do an episode room just like
Just the real version of me reprimanding you for all the things that you're gonna get in trouble for saying after these podcast episodes are done.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
Well, good talk.
Thank you so much.
All right.
Now these questions were good from the listeners because then it it makes us act talk about things that we don't
Normally talk about.
Yeah, and I think it is good to keep some of the raw in where we are.
Like we don't always agree on everything.
That's okay.
Yep.
Nope.
I disagree with that.
Okay, just kidding.
Okay, thanks for listening.
See you next week.
Oh man.
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