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The Measuring Post is a podcast about growth, not perfection.
It’s a place to pause, reflect, and measure what actually matters in your life, your work, and your personal development. Not by comparing yourself to others, but by comparing who you are today to who you were yesterday.
I'm Joe Massa, and I created this show because I believe growth isn't a solo journey. Each week, you’ll hear thoughtful interviews with incredible guests: entrepreneurs, leaders, creatives, and everyday people doing meaningful work, sharing real experiences, lessons learned, and practical insights you can apply right away. These conversations are designed to help you think differently, grow intentionally, and move forward with clarity.
Alongside the interviews, you’ll also find The Daily Measure, short, bite-sized solo episodes focused on simple words of wisdom and actionable ideas you can use in your daily life. Think of these as quick check-ins to help you stay grounded, focused, and consistent.
This isn’t about hype or shortcuts. It’s about honest conversations, small improvements, and growing together over time.
If you’re someone who values progress, reflection, and becoming a better version of yourself, you’re in the right place.
Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, join the conversation, and grow with us.
Joe Massa (00:00.15)
pop up on my face. I don't know why they do this every time I record, so I have to click out of that. Now we'll go ahead and start.
Joe Massa (00:12.184)
Hello everybody, welcome to another edition of the Measuring Post. Today I'm really excited because we're gonna talk about something we don't usually cover on this show, but it's really important because the way that the modern market is working, how things are changing, the pace of AI's growth, but also what that means for the sales teams and the people working in those industries and how they navigate that scenario. So today I brought in someone very special. She's the VP of Sales at Unframe, which is a managed AI delivery platform. She's got more than a decade of experience building and scaling sales
teams at business to business SaaS companies that are focused on AI, data and enterprise software. And she also has a clear view into how large organizations are evaluating technology, managing risk and moving from experimentation to measurable outcomes. with all of that to digest, please welcome today Jacqueline Goldberg on the measuring post. Jacqueline, how are you today?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (01:06.564)
Great. How are you, Joe?
Joe Massa (01:08.502)
I'm very, very excited to talk to you. This is a topic I'm really passionate about. Obviously AI is the rage out there right now. It's everywhere you look and rightfully so it's so powerful, but we sort of forget that that's also tied to the human element. And that's sort of where you come in because you're still leading massive sales teams that are working on these enterprise levels. So how did you sort of find yourself in this position and how does your experience from, you your past really play into these modern
an AI focused enterprise level agencies.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (01:42.33)
Yeah, good question. So I think
just as a general question going all the way back, sales has always been in my blood and in my DNA. I tried to fight it very early on in my career and it kind of pulled me back in. And I started with marketing technology where machine learning was the backbone of everything that was being built. And I always found myself really trying to understand how the product worked because I wanted to use that to help my customers get value at the end of the day.
And so every place I've gone since my early days has become more technical and more technical. And I decided about five years ago to leave the marketing technology world, very, again, data machine learning as a backbone focus, to get into hard AI. I felt that this wave was coming. I could feel it. And so I got into the data training world to start.
to learn how to sell to machine learning engineers, which was a huge divergence from marketing. And then now being at AI, being more at the application layer, helping enterprises solve those needs. And I...
really just continued to again see that evolution of where the technology was headed and I just I followed it because I love being at the forefront of what's happening and it's just amazing to see the value that's being able to be delivered today.
Joe Massa (03:18.049)
Yeah, definitely a big change in the way things used to be, but obviously certain things don't change. The sales world itself, you still need to have certain characteristics, certain patterns of work ethic, the way you handle clients, the way you handle rejections. There's a lot to learn there, but I have a question. What's something that you believed about sales maybe early on in your career that through your experience you've learned was just flat out wrong?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (03:43.366)
I think early on in my career, felt that I always, because I've worked at venture-backed companies most of my career and I don't have that big company logo experience, that was something that I needed. I needed that training. I needed to be in the John McMahon system somehow.
I have found over the years that that's just not true. And if you are a student of life and of where you're working, there's tons of content out there that you can get there. You don't have to have that training.
Joe Massa (04:19.009)
Yeah, I think a lot of people misunderstand that you have to have the perfect plan and all of the degrees and all the training and certificates and really the best teacher's experience and going through some of the gauntlets that you inevitably will go through as you're learning any craft, but certainly in sales and coming from a minor background in sales myself, it is no easy feat. So I commend you on sticking with it and really teaching people how to be better at this. So now I'm assuming over the course of your career and I want to ask you a couple of loaded questions because
these are a bit more vulnerable. Have you ever lost a deal, a really big deal or something you thought was all locked up? And if you did, what did you learn from that experience and how did you recover from that?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (05:00.53)
of course, a few times. think there are many deals, one in particular where everything felt good. Like I had the pain and decision maker and all of MedPic fully understood and the champion. And then out of nowhere, the budget gets cut. And that's just not something that you could have.
necessarily predicted and I think learning from that is you could run a play perfectly and then life happens and so you always need to have enough in your pipe to be able to cover those situations.
Joe Massa (05:39.433)
Absolutely. Yeah, don't put all your eggs in one basket. That's definitely good advice tried and true So on the other side of that equation What's like the most unique way that you were able able to close a deal that maybe you didn't think would happen?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (05:54.0)
So years ago, I was in Miami for a wedding and was supposed to go see a customer that we were in a pilot with. before, so I was seeing him before while I was in town and I go to leave and I get an email that says, we can still have this meeting, but just so you know, we're gonna go with your competitor.
And I cunningly wrote back, well, if we're going to break up, we might as well do it in person. So I showed up under the guise that like we were breaking up and I basically just sat there and heard him out and poked holes in everything that I knew the competitor wasn't good at and that we were good at. And by the end of the meeting, I had saved the deal because I wasn't trying to sell him. I was trying to coach him on things that he should watch out for that I knew we could do better and that he may have cared about.
And to this day we still speak.
Joe Massa (06:49.899)
No, that's awesome. I love that if we're gonna break up, do it in person because it does, it's the icebreaker, gets you in the same room and then you can showcase not only your knowledge but kind of use your skill set as a saleswoman. you know, sales is inherently something that people are either really good at or really bad at. But do you think there's such a thing as like a natural born salesman or is that a myth and this is something you can learn with enough practice?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (07:16.146)
I think there are some inherent qualities that make certain sellers better than others. And I do think, especially in this new AI world, that those qualities are crucial.
And that perhaps the big machine, especially at companies with a lot of help and process, like sellers in today's day and age, like just can't hack because especially at startups and new technologies, like they just haven't been invented yet. Like how to very specifically sell this product and.
all the pipe coming to them. think that for me, there are two things that make a very good seller. And I say this often, so I'll beat a dead horse on it, but I think they're very important, which is intellectual curiosity and grit. And I think everyone believes they have a certain amount of that. And I'm sure as human beings, we all do. But for me, what it means on the intellectual curiosity part is being ruthless in asking questions.
at every stage of the deal and not taking the customer at face value. As an example, here at Unframe, we look for hard problems to work with. And if a customer gives you a problem,
Oftentimes a seller may say great and then they run with it. But is that problem worth solving right away or are we gonna end up in a 18 month deal cycle because it's not urgent right and how are you able to find? Problems worth solving. Are you able to ask the right questions to get to the right answers to ensure you have a clean deal and Those are those are
Jacquelyn Goldberg (08:53.292)
skills that unless you're naturally really, really curious from that degree versus asking perfunctory questions that you may be given, right, if you're in the big machine to ask.
Like you have to just figure it out. And with that comes grit. And again, I think that means a lot of different things to different people. To me, it means like you, I've had this in my career where I've shown up and been handed a laptop and said, figure it out. And those sorts of folks are inherently those that are going to figure out how to get a deal closed in sales. And so I think that there's certainly things like charisma and the ability to have executive presence. I think some of that can be taught.
some of it is inherently within a personality. But I think those two other things are really, really important to be a good salesperson.
Joe Massa (09:45.729)
Yeah, I definitely agree. And you said one thing earlier that I want to circle back on because I love how you framed it. You weren't there to be salesy. You were there to coach that individual that you were able to re-snag that deal from. And that sort of leads me to one of the people that I grew up under learning some sales was I'm not here to sell you. I'm here to provide a service. If that service doesn't fit your needs, that's fine, but that's not going to change my approach to it. So I really liked it. You're using like the coaching mindset. I'm here to educate. I'm here to help you solve those problems.
But also you mentioned, you know, are we working on a problem that is really not a problem or something that could be put on the back burner? It really takes a keen eye and intellect to be able to identify the current problem that needs to be tackled. So I really like that you framed it that way. So is that something you've noticed?
even in smaller companies that you're running into sort of the really salesy, pushy people. And what's one thing when you're hiring a salesperson that you can tell within maybe the first five minutes that this person is not cut out for sales?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (10:52.626)
I think it's based off of the questions they ask me, purely. I know pretty quickly. Each person is trying to sell themself, and or partly in the questions I ask and their ability to get to concrete examples. Are they listening to me? Are we engaging in a dialogue back and forth? Because sales is a relationship.
Right? And so there's give and take in a relationship and is the conversation give and take as well.
Joe Massa (11:24.288)
Yeah, absolutely. So would you say that most salespeople though have to be like extroverts? I know that's sort of a misconception and I've always kind of wondered what people's thoughts on that. I myself very extroverted, I do well talking to people, engaging, know, certain people that I've worked with that are in sales, very reserved, very introvert. Is that a necessary skill or just maybe a beneficial one?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (11:47.506)
I think it can depend on the sale, right? So like, if you're in a very, very technical sales, also selling to introverts, I think that that can be an advantage. But if you're selling to a marketer, they're usually extroverts. Like, I think you need to be an extrovert or they won't feel that. I tend to think most sellers need to be extroverted, but I've been proven wrong in the past.
Joe Massa (12:16.042)
Yeah, I think you're absolutely hit the nail on the head there. It's an important skill set to have when you're sort of matching energies, maybe is a better way to frame that. But it's always gonna be to the audience that you're speaking to when you're talking about sales. But, you know.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (12:24.859)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Massa (12:31.626)
When you're working with these bigger companies, especially when they learn that you're working with a company that's AI centric, right? Obviously you started more in the marketing side, but now you're in the AI enterprise scale side. Is that a common question? Like how do we eliminate people from sales by using AI? I'm assuming that's something that comes up probably pretty frequently.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (12:51.858)
You know, it actually doesn't come up as often as you would think. I feel very, very strongly that salespeople are not going anywhere, at least the really good ones, because at the end of the day, people want to know that there's someone behind it, right? That it's not just like...
an agent that's selling to an agent, like it needs to be something that's actually there and you're there to help them solve their problem. I definitely think that we are in an era where there is a ton of efficiency that can be created in AI to make good sellers better.
But at the end of the day, you can't just rely on AI to do your job. And if that's the case, then you'll get nowhere. As an example, I think meeting prep, most people are using it with AI today. That's great. But if you don't fully understand what the output is to be able to have an intelligent conversation where you're having that give and take, where you're able to ask a follow-up question from your question, then it's useless. And you're just a robot at the end of the day and not creating that relationship.
Joe Massa (13:56.982)
Yeah.
Yeah, the human element definitely very important when you're talking about sales or anytime there's going to be money exchanged. would highly recommend having that human touch. And I agree. The AI is phenomenal and what it can do and streamline your workflows, eliminate busy work, make you more efficient, clean up, maybe your email drafts. That stuff is exactly where that should live in the sales process, but you really got to have boots on the ground, shaking hands and, making sure that you're closing those deals and demonstrating your knowledge and also your, your passion.
to help them. I think most people really want to feel that you're like a part of their team, even when you're not. You're saying, look, I'm here to provide what you're missing, that missing link. So how do you find yourself sort of making those human connections in a very dominated computer focused AI world?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (14:48.912)
get to your point, get to meet them in person. So getting out on the road, whether that be events or just going into town and having a bunch of meetings, I do that often. I think that that's really, really important at the end of the day, being able to get in person. And I think it's a hard muscle that a lot of people have forgotten about over COVID and are trying to relearn it.
Joe Massa (15:13.257)
Yeah, I think a lot of people got really comfortable in the business up top in the pajama bottoms, you know, as we're all on Zoom calls. And there was a time and place when that made sense. I think a lot of companies realized that maybe they could go fully remote and it would be fine. But I think a lot of other companies are realizing just how powerful that in-person feel really can be for your business. that kind of leads me to my next question about enterprise sales, because everything I've personally experienced was on a much smaller,
to mom and pop, small to medium business size. When you're talking enterprise, you're talking hundreds, maybe even thousands of employees. So what is like a superior enterprise sales team look like in your perspective?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (15:58.3)
I think that it's a team built on the principles that I talked about earlier and those qualities around intellectual curiosity and grit. To me, it's a team that's being held to standards of excellence of everyone putting in their work to help the greater good of the company and not just their own and teamwork along that is extremely well. Ultimately, at the end of the day, that we are solving big problems for our customers consistently and being able to show that
we can do that.
Joe Massa (16:30.577)
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's really important to have a cohesive team with sort of a really defined purpose and roadmap. I have found in pretty much any industry you're in, if you have a fragmented team that doesn't understand the vision, then you get skewed pretty quickly. But I think that comes from, and it's really empowering to hear you talk the way that you talk, because it comes from a leadership side, right? You as the leader, as the VP of sales have to set that
expectation of what we're gonna do, how we're gonna go out there. These are the qualities that we represent and demonstrate. And when you lead by example, which you clearly have for over a decade now, that's how you attract good talent as well, I would imagine. Yeah. So what's some of your tactics when... No, you're good, yeah.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (17:13.201)
Yes.
Leading from the front. Sorry to cut you off, Joe. I think that's a very, very important thing. No matter how big the company is, leading from the front, think, will help any rep feel that they're supported and that you know what's going on.
Joe Massa (17:30.035)
Yeah, definitely. And I think a lot of people respond really well to that when they can see, hey, my manager, my VP of sales, they're out there doing what they're asking me to do. So if they're doing it, you know, there's absolutely zero reasons why I shouldn't be giving this my all. When you're actually recruiting someone though,
Obviously sales is pretty cutthroat and there's a lot of, I would imagine people that would apply for a job if you were to just post it on LinkedIn. So how do you cut through the 5,500 applications that you get on a single opening? So what's like sort of the few top things other than those two qualities that you mentioned, which are kind of hard to dissect in a resume. What's like the one thing that would really stick out to you? Like this is somebody that we should put to the top of the interview list.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (17:55.442)
Sure.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (18:14.032)
I think there's a couple of things. One is, on paper, do they have a strong track record at working at relevant companies to what we may be selling? So in our case, it would be more of a platform approach versus small point solutions. Good tenure, that's important to me. I think you can explain one or two.
here and there, where you've been there, 18 months or less, but beyond that, it's hard for me to evaluate enterprise performance, because sales cycles are long. The ability to consistently hit and exceed targets is important. And ultimately,
Some folks that I've met with have had really creative outreach to me on LinkedIn as well. And I get hit up all the time. But just sending me a LinkedIn request without explaining why you're reaching out is probably not going to get you very far. So you have to sell me as you would a client or a customer, right? And if it's the same thing that you're doing, like you're submitting a form or you're just applying, that won't stand out.
Joe Massa (19:16.255)
Yeah, I love that you mentioned that, especially the requesting a connection without a note on LinkedIn. So several years ago, that was like what they would recommend you do. They say, don't add a note when you're making a connection because then they go, they're reading this like, why do I know you? It sort of gives them a reason to reject you. But if you leave it sort of open-ended, it's more of this enticement, like, who is this mysterious man trying to connect with me on a professional level? But again, I agree with you more on the way you explain it. You do have to sort of sell yourself
for lack of a better term and really capture the attention of the person that's doing the hiring. And there's so many cookie cutter templates. People use the same AI chat, GBT stuff that sort of regurgitates very similar, you know, elevator pitches for lack of a better term that don't get noticed. So the, ability to differentiate yourself very, very powerful, but elevator pitches was sort of my next topic. Do you have like an elevator pitch or the 32nd? Is that something that's still really
matters when you're making outreach to say somebody in the enterprise space that maybe wants to adopt unframed technology. Do you have like that 30 second sort of elevator pitch that works every time or is it more organically driven?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (20:30.564)
It's more organically driven, but it depends on who we're talking to. Each persona is a little different. think overall, our value prop resonates though with most. The through line is you have a problem, we'll solve it for you in a matter of days. And you only pay once you're happy with what we've delivered.
Joe Massa (20:54.056)
Yeah, so focusing on the outcome and not so much the process, really a powerful piece when it comes to sales. Always remember that and lead with what they're gonna get because what I've found over the years of doing this too, and maybe you can agree, most people don't care about where you came from. They don't care about your process. They don't care what tools you're using. They wanna know, you solve my problem?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (20:56.379)
Exactly.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (21:17.392)
Mm-hmm. Exactly.
Joe Massa (21:20.168)
Yeah, I love it. And it seems counterintuitive, but people don't leave with that. They like to say, hey, look at me. I'm the greatest. did A, B, and C, and I worked for this company, and I can definitely show you. And they go, I don't care. Give me a proposal that shows me you're going to fix my problem. So I think outcome driven is definitely a big focus in that. So when you're selling on an enterprise level, guess, what's one of the biggest mistake that
people make when you're approaching a client of that magnitude, as opposed to selling a $500 course, you're selling tens of thousands of dollars, a much larger payday, but obviously delivering a much bigger deliverable.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (22:04.668)
I think treating everyone in that company the same versus really understanding the needs of the person that you're getting into. And oftentimes, you'll see.
maybe a rep get on the phone with somebody at a large company and they realize very quickly they're not the right person. They're not using them to get more information to help them navigate that account. And to maybe that person knows of the pain or the problem specific to whatever you're selling, but they're not a decision maker nor an influencer, but you can still get good information to help you when you do reach out next.
Joe Massa (22:45.512)
Yeah, no, I think that's a really smart angle to approach. And obviously the more information you can gather from people inside the circle will help you put together that sort of polished pitch when you get to the next person that maybe is the decision maker. But how do you like make companies feel?
Like there's a low risk for them when they're buying cycles in AI and software. Obviously there's this shiny object syndrome too, where they go, yeah, Unframe has phenomenal enterprise opportunities for us, but what if something else comes out tomorrow that's even better? Like, do you get a lot of that, especially in the ever-changing AI space where it's sort of like, we're just feeling you out, but we're also shopping everywhere?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (23:28.814)
Not really from that standpoint, just because of the fact that A-
We're very low risk and that we don't charge for them to see the value. B, when we do charge, it's per solution per year and that includes us maintaining it and adding features. And we're LLM agnostic. So as new foundational models come out, we can swap them out and what we're building, we can continue to add new features. So customers that started working with us a year ago, their solutions look entirely different today. And that's all included in working with us. And so I feel like that's why we don't get very many of those objectives.
actions.
Joe Massa (24:04.638)
Yeah, because a lot of times you're going to run into churn no matter what that business is. People are going to cancel, people do that. But if you have the ability and you set yourself apart to be able to grow and evolve as the technology evolves, obviously you position yourself as somebody that's really hard to replace. And when you're building these systems that become so intertwined in a big enterprise company, it's really hard for them to want to get rid of you because you are kind of the glue that makes everything work underneath.
Joe Massa (24:35.324)
Awesome. Yeah. So tell me a little bit more about, you know, from your past experience selling to like these fortune 500 companies, if somebody were trying to break into sales and get to this level where you're at, where you're going from zero to now, you're, you're a company that's bringing in millions of dollars a year. What sort of the roadmap, what the timeline, how long did it take you to build this skillset?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (24:57.938)
That's a good question. I have been Evolving it over my entire career I can't say that like there's one thing that that I've done it just experience and More than anything everyone just needs to get in it and do it. I think today if I were the first rep at a company trying to build from scratch
I would start making some hypotheses on where the product fits and where the repeatability may be, and then try several plays and just get feedback. The more feedback you get, it's a gift to continue to tweak and evolve what you're doing. And with all of the AI out there, you can get to that much faster. You can get help with messaging with the LLMs much faster than needing to have product marketing as an example.
early on at least. think it's a very important role so I have to caveat that.
Joe Massa (25:54.238)
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And definitely you have to be willing to do some A.B. testing, try things, see what's working, what's not working. But you also talked about one of your two really big characteristics. One is grit. Grit to me also means that you have to be comfortable hearing the word no. Because when you're selling or providing a service or coaching, you're going to hear a lot of nos. And if you're easily discouraged, that's something that can take away from your ability to go out and find that next stop or
So that leads me to the next question. How do you find that you handle pressure in these high stakes situations and what sort of habits and mindset help you, you know, go forward after you hear no or something falls apart that you've been working really hard on?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (26:40.86)
to just continue to try and create momentum. More activity, more meetings, more outbound. Because the more at-bats you have, the more you'll learn. And I think when you hear no, understanding why there's a no is really important. And not trying to fight them to sell it, but try to understand why it's a no. think just like I did in that meeting, I tried to understand like.
why they're going with that competitor and why it was a no to us and then poked holes in it. So not that you necessarily want to poke holes, but I think it's a learning experience. And I think just continuing to create momentum as you here knows, it will keep you going.
Joe Massa (27:22.439)
Yeah, I don't want to gloss over what you just said because it was extremely powerful. is finding out the reason why you got to know. It's not just saying, well, whatever. I'm not, know, you guys just wasted my time. Some people get like hissy like that and they take it as a personal attack, but I love your, your mentality there. Let's discover why you didn't want to go with us. And then either a, I can learn from that and maybe have a better chance of getting the next client or be more than anything. It just really gives me more knowledge on how to
service this type of client better. You know, these are the people that are actually doing the work day to day. So when you find out their internal pain points, their struggles, their bottlenecks, and you go, okay, I appreciate you're not going with us. Can you give me a reason that separated us from company ABC? That is a really powerful mentality to hold of where you can close the gap on maybe some of your competitors or simply just give yourself more insight into the industry. So definitely very powerful sales tactic there.
So with that in mind, where do you foresee AI sort of in the sales world over the next maybe three to five years? Obviously it's no crystal ball. It's hard to say what's gonna be coming down, you know, the big LLM highways, but how do you foresee AI adoption in enterprise sales going in the next couple of years?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (28:45.01)
It's such a hard question to answer, but I do think we're going to continue to see the promise of AI deliver in general, whether that be in sales or other places. And a lot of internal inefficiencies will be automated. And I think our day to day will just look so different. I mean, it's hard to imagine a world today without the foundational models. It's hard to imagine a world today without Google before that. So I think we don't know what that future will be and it's going to be rapidly evolving. But I do know that
how we do our work will continue to fundamentally change.
Joe Massa (29:20.455)
Yeah, definitely. And you're right. It's like, seems like AI is only, it feels like it's been here our entire lives at this point. Like you can't have a conversation where they're like, I chat GPT did, or I clotted this and, it's like five years ago, be like, you did what, what are you talking about? So.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (29:34.16)
Well, even think about not even sending an email, but I do, as you could imagine, a fair amount of planning and strategy work running a sales team. And some of those plans and strategies would take me days that I'd never had. Now I can do that in a matter of hours, at least have a blueprint to start with. And that's really exciting. And I keep thinking, how did I do this before? Because it would take a lot of research to figure things out sometimes.
Joe Massa (30:03.901)
Yeah, definitely. It's a great tool. It's not a replacement, but it is a great tool that should be utilized, especially with the road mapping, the blueprinting, sort of the game planning of what you're gonna do next. Really valuable to use that. So what's next on the horizon for unframed sales team? Is that something you're expanding or are you more or less using your skill set to acquire new clients for your business?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (30:27.74)
Well, we are doing both. are expanding rapidly. We're hiring globally sellers. So if anyone's listening and they're interested, please take a look at the career page on our website. And we are trying to service our customers and allow them to experience the promise of AI on a day-to-day basis.
Joe Massa (30:50.653)
Yeah, good to know, definitely.
So again, you can check out more of Jacqueline Goldberg and unframed by visiting unframed.ai. Check out their offerings for enterprise AI deliverable scale solutions. Definitely something that could be very beneficial if you're a larger company looking to get that break into the industry that maybe you just don't know how to wrap your minds around. And also she's got a great plan where you're not paying for it upfront. You see the actual product working. Then you get to come in and become a partner. Something that I think a lot of companies
don't do well enough is offer that deliverable upfront where they can actually show a tangible product to a client. Much easier to close a deal would you say when you can actually show them what they're getting?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (31:35.91)
Yes, for sure. It's much more tangible.
Joe Massa (31:39.208)
Yeah, definitely something that is not easy to accomplish. So my hat's off to Unframe AI for building such an amazing platform. Again, Unframe AI. And if you're just tuning in, we've been speaking with the VP of Sales, Jacqueline Goldberg at Unframe. And she's really showcasing and sharing over 10 years of experience selling to Fortune 500 companies. So these aren't selling Girl Scout cookies in front of the store. These are really big, heavy-hitting clients and these skill sets are transferable.
how to do this, you're gonna be somebody that can be a really valuable asset to a sales team, maybe even the unframed AI sales team, if you're interested in checking that out.
Joe Massa (32:23.409)
So any final words that you have to the Measuring Post audience before we wrap up here on today's episode.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (32:31.728)
it was a pleasure to meet you, Joe. I really enjoyed our conversation. I always love talking about sales and hiring and AI. So you checked all those boxes for me.
Joe Massa (32:43.613)
Yeah, again, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge here today. It was really great. Can't wait to share this episode and really help people learn a valuable skillset that isn't going away anytime soon. AI will not replace you. Use the tools at your disposal, but more or less use that grit that you have inside of you and your tenacity to learn. I promise you that's gonna help you.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (33:07.302)
Thank you, Jo.
Joe Massa (33:09.789)
All right, so that pretty much covers all the main questions. So I'll bring Reena back in. If we wanna ask a couple more pointed questions, we can do those. And then again, we'll edit all these down and provide tons and tons of clips from that. Is there anything that you felt like we didn't discuss that you would like to add in?
Jacquelyn Goldberg (33:17.328)
Okay.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (33:22.066)
Okay.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (33:26.689)
Jacquelyn Goldberg (33:30.958)
I don't know. Let's have Rena come back.
and I just slacked her.
Joe Massa (33:42.95)
OK, cool. I was going to do that,
Rina Konishi (33:54.072)
Hey!
Joe Massa (33:54.727)
You are natural though, I think you'll do quite well in the podcast circuit. Jack, Jacqueline's a rock star.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (33:56.786)
thank you. Thank you.
Rina Konishi (34:00.588)
I'm Love to hear it. I knew it.
Joe Massa (34:04.998)
So we pretty much covered all the questions you sent over. We just did a real back and forth question. I would sort of lead with a question and let her kind of explain. And then we piggybacked off each other from there and kept the momentum going. This doesn't necessarily have to flow in one 30 minute solid episode. We can break it into little chunks. We'll do a bunch of like thought leadership reels, audiograms, quote graphics as well. That way we get a lot of, you know, LinkedIn profile pieces for Jacqueline. But, you know,
Rina Konishi (34:17.656)
Perfect.
Joe Massa (34:34.51)
Essentially, I know you weren't involved in that, so it's gonna be hard for you to answer this question, but I feel like we covered everything on the list, but if there's anything that you're thinking of now that you would like us to ask, I can certainly add more content to this. And the other option is, after we get all these put together, we can do a round two, we could do a round three. We don't have to make this a one and done.
Rina Konishi (34:54.86)
Yep, let's do that. I would love to take a look at the answers and then we can take it from there.
Joe Massa (35:00.784)
Okay, so what I'll do next, I'll pre-process this now, I'll pull it off, I'll cut out all the gaps and stuff that's in there. I'll start putting reels together, but would you like me just to send you the raw file for now so that you and your team can work on it? I'm happy to put all these together as well on my end.
Rina Konishi (35:12.984)
Sure, yeah, that'd be great.
Yeah, if you can put it together, that'd be great. I would love to see the raw file though. think like, kind of building on what are the things that Jaclyn thinks about, talks about, like that will be useful for me.
Joe Massa (35:29.296)
Yeah, so I'll also give you the full transcripts that way so you have all the text based easier as well and we can parse that and then find out what ways, maybe we can find some viral moments that came out of that. But also that I'll make some quote graphics for that as well with the audio playing underneath it. That way you can post those statically on like Instagram or LinkedIn or whatever as well.
Rina Konishi (35:48.258)
Yeah, that sounds great.
Joe Massa (35:50.703)
Awesome. Well, I appreciate it ladies. was a pleasure to meet you finally, Jacqueline face to face, even though we're not face to face, not quite a, you know, in person, but Rena pleasure to see you as well. And if there's anything you need in the short term, please let me know. Awesome. Talk soon. actually hang on a second. Hang on before you hang up Jacqueline. sorry. Cause
Rina Konishi (36:03.074)
Sounds good? Thanks, y'all.
Jacquelyn Goldberg (36:03.634)
Thank you.