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The podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world.
If you’re a founder, executive, or high-ranking leader, you already know this truth: the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to.
Lonely at the Top is a sanctuary in the storm—a space where the emotional cost of leadership is named, and where relief, clarity, and grounded support are always on the table.
Hosted by Soul Medic and former psychotherapist Rachel Alexandria, this podcast dives into the unspoken realities of high-level decision-making: the pressure, the isolation, the doubt, and the fatigue. Each episode offers insight, emotional tools, and conversations with seasoned leaders who’ve learned to navigate the weight of responsibility without losing themselves.
📍 that was the hardest period of business ownership for me
I was
literally failing at everything because I had tripled my staff. I had quadrupled my workload and I completely burnt myself out 100%
📍
📍 Welcome to Lonely At the Top, a podcast for high level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world. Because you know the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to. Here we welcome founders, executives, and decision makers who feel the isolation and pressure that comes with power.
Lonely At The Top is your sanctuary in the storm, and I'm your host, Soul Medic and former psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria.
Trigger warning. This. Episode does contain discussions of suicidal ideation.
Today on the pod we have Sarah Buino,
she is a licensed clinical social worker, consultant, and a visionary therapist, consultant and speaker dedicated to transforming the healing professions by integrating clinical expertise with grounded business strategy. As founder of Head Heart Therapy Incorporated. Head Heart Business Therapy, and Group Practice Revolution,
she supports therapists in aligning their personal growth with professional impact. She also has a podcast Conversations With a Wounded Healer, where she explores how our own healing journeys shape how we serve others. Such a good guest for today. I'm so excited you said Yes.
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.
Gosh, when did we have you on my podcast?
I don't remember. It was a while ago, I think.
Definitely. Yeah. Pre pandemic, I probably 2018 or 19. Is that how we met? Yeah. And I don't even remember.
I, I probably saw you on Instagram because that's how I was
finding a lot of people back in the day. Wow. Yeah. One of the few real life connections I have made via Instagram. Really? Oh yeah. Somehow
I've been finding people and connecting with them and I, there's still digital relationships, but real. People that I actually care about and that seem to care about me too.
Nice. You always were more
active on there. I am a kind of post and then watch funny cat videos. Yeah. In person on Instagram. Yeah. So I I, I'm sure if I was working it differently maybe I'd have more of the same, of the same experience as you. Well, I thought of you for this podcast because.
When you and I met you had built a clinic for other therapists. Mm-hmm. And in fact, we were talking about me coming in and teaching the Enneagram as a workshop for your clinicians. And then I know you have since stepped away I sold the practice, yep. Sold the practice.
So. I would love to hear just more about this 'cause we haven't caught up in a few years.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. There's been a lot that's happened. So Head Heart Therapy was the practice that I started in 2014 . Hired my first person in 2015 and it was like, oh, this is super easy because he just happened to be a really great employee and it ended up ballooning over the years.
In 2023, I sold it to our then executive director, Rayell Grayson. But honestly, the process of business ownership is literally the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, and I never wanna be a boss again. I'm happy to be a leader. But I don't wanna be a boss again, because there's just, there's a different vibe that goes along with that and different expectations and pain points and whatnot.
I, I distinctly remember it was probably 2018 when I just started thinking of myself as a boss, you know? So it took a good four years before I was like, oh yeah, I'm a business owner. I guess I should step into that. And I tried to build a leadership team from within. Didn't work because many therapists just wanna be therapists and they don't wanna be, leaders mm-hmm.
And, and managers and whatnot. And so at that point in time, like 2019, I was like, do I just dissolve this? Do I just walk away? I can't keep doing this. And at that time also really started digging into a different level of healing work on childhood sexual abuse.
It was
very much in the forefront for my personal life.
And so just all of that together, I was like, I don't wanna do this anymore.
And.
I, I ended up making the decision to try and hire an executive director, somebody from the outside, and I said to myself, either I find the right person and I hire this person. We can build a management team, and then I can decide what to do with it, or I don't find this person.
And I do dissolve the practice. And I ended up finding Rayell and in the interview said to her, I don't wanna do this anymore. And the ideal situation for me would be for the person that comes into this role to end up taking the practice over. And I don't know what that would look like. No idea. And in the interview she said, oh, I've always wanted to be a business owner, but I didn't need to start one myself.
And so, we just kind of like had that out there, the honesty. And then 2020 happens, right? Mm. I ended up putting myself into residential treatment that year because the trauma just, it was up to here and the hyper vigilance around covid and the way that I was interacting with my neighborhood just was not working.
And I, I went to treatment and I. It became very clear in treatment that one of the biggest issues in my life was my relationship with work.
Hmm. It
wasn't necessarily the business itself or even the employees, but just my relationship with the expectations I had for myself and how I showed up and how I was available and all that sort of thing.
And so as I started to heal, I started to have more direct conversations with Rayell about like, okay, I, I really need to be out. It's become very clear to me that this is a danger to my health and mental health. Mm-hmm. Do you wanna buy it? And we hired a consultant, Aggie Chaginsky, in 2022. And then by mid 2023, we were able to execute the sale.
And I am so happy to not be a practice owner right now. Wow. 'cause it is a shit show out there for therapists. So there's a lot happening in our world. Wow.
Yeah, first of all, I'm really glad that you're opening up about several things because I think it's gonna be really helpful for our audience.
I mean, the people who listen to this podcast are interested in deeper emotional truth. Right. I had a feeling.
Yeah. Otherwise, why are they listening? Wasn't gonna hold back.
I think it's really courageous, you know, a lot of people don't wanna admit going into residential treatment, for example.
Mm-hmm.
For those who don't know what that means, 'cause you know mm-hmm. Obviously you and I are our expert in this field.
Yeah.
Can you explain that for the listeners?
Yeah. If people are familiar with individual therapy, where you go see your therapist either in their office or telehealth once a week, that is typically the lowest level of care.
We call them all levels of care. There are different levels of care that you step up and basically they're more intensive and the highest level of care would be intensive inpatient, but, um, residential treatment, I mean, honestly these places, most of them look like spas and, very healing places.
I went to a place in Arizona in the desert, which I find very magical and mystical. So it was a great place for me. And you do therapy all day long and mm-hmm. It's with other people who are having struggles. And I mean , did I need residential treatment? Probably not. I probably could have gotten away with PHP or IOP, um, partial hospitalization or intensive outpatient, but I needed to get out of my environment.
Yeah. And I wanted to just be able to rest away from work away from my neighborhood. Yeah. Away, quote unquote from COVID, where you're just with the same people. And so we didn't have to worry quite as diligently about masks, once we knew everybody was safe. I needed to be able to completely disconnect in order to, to get some healing.
And boy did I,
wow. So a lot of people I think, don't wanna talk about things, like I have friends mm-hmm. Who have done things like, intensive outpatient treatment, people who just, especially after COVID or during that time, had to confront things like their alcoholism or
mm-hmm.
You know, their workaholism, mm-hmm. And who have done really intensive treatment and I think people often are like, oh, don't, you know, we, we sort of grew up in the age of like, don't even admit to going to therapy. Right, right, right. People will think you're broken and something's wrong with you, and it's like, mm-hmm.
Oh, maybe, hopefully now with everything that we go through, it's just become more normalized to say, mm-hmm, mental health is a real issue that everyone has to deal with. Just like your physical health. No one gets to not exercise and not eat well and be fine. Right. You know? And the same thing applies to the mental health.
So, yep. Thank you for being just very open about that, because I think it normalizes it, which is good. We need more. Yeah. Normalization of the different ways that people mm-hmm. Need to be supported.
Yeah. Um, and like you said, I don't think a lot of people know that that is available to them. And I'll just also say, especially leaders, I think could consider going on a retreat at a place like Onsite or The Meadows has five day retreats where you're doing intensive therapy for a short period of time.
Mm-hmm. To unlock a certain piece of healing or whatnot, or just to get away from work and disconnect and focus on yourself. So there's a lot more options available that I think people aren't aware of.
Yeah, absolutely. I have clients who've done things like
go on a retreat with a specific teacher, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Fly to the country that they're at. I have a client who's done Panchakarma a few different times as part of, uh, their healing from COVID
because they got
really bad long COVID and had to do a lot of extended treatment.
Wow.
Um, there's, I mean, there's so many different kinds of things.
I'm just naming a few, because I think it's useful when people wanna listen to this and then Google, yes. How do I do this? You know? Yes. And there's even, free options like going on a Buddhist silent retreat. Mm-hmm. Which isn't therapy, but at least it is. Yeah. Respite. Right, right. It's calm and there are talks to help you center your mind.
Mm-hmm. Things like that. So there are things available regardless of, ability to pay and things like that. So
yeah,
we got into the deep end right off that. Okay. So what I do best also, yeah, you get two therapists on a podcast and we're uhhuh, we're just gonna be like, okay, so let's get into that childhood trauma.
Right? Let's really dig in there. Yeah. Uh, so you were, in this experience of building and then running this clinic. How did you come to understand that you wanted out of being in charge?
Gosh, I don't think I've really thought about it. You know, even though I'm a, a heart center Enneagram, I'm a very gut led person too, and mm-hmm. I think that shows up in my human design, so I'm told is that I just really like, I just know.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I can say what it's not and maybe that'll help us get to what it was. I hear a lot of practice owners grapple or just business owners with, it feeling like failure if they wanna do something different. And that was not, that had no part of my decision, because I already felt very successful.
Mm-hmm. Because the practice was successful, so I didn't have that barrier. I wasn't afraid of what I would do next because even though I didn't know what it was, I generally am a successful person. So I could just, I kinda just trust myself and, I knew
worst case scenario, I just become a therapist again, individual therapist and I, I know I can do that. So, I didn't have a lot of barriers to making that decision, it was easier to just listen to what my heart and my gut were saying. And they were saying, we're done with this. We have, we have explored this adventure.
We have learned the things we need to learn, and now we need to learn other things elsewhere. Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Wow. Yeah, that's impressive. 'cause I agree. A lot of people who are high performers have a really big struggle with ending things because of the, the fear of failure, mm-hmm. Or the story about failure.
Mm-hmm.
Part of what I like that I hear in your story is something that I resonate with too, which is just that honest internal inventory. Mm-hmm. That just ability to hear your own truth.
Mm-hmm.
And, and not run from it. I think that's super important in leadership and in general.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And there's a part of me that learned that through the specific trauma treatment I was experiencing, but also I think there's a, just a big part of me that has n never been able to not be my authentic self.
Mm-hmm. Like
a lot of my childhood trauma, the developmental trauma piece of it was really, seeing the problems in my family, or like I, of course as a child, you can't really articulate it, but I'm like, this is not okay.
I am not okay. Mm-hmm. A child should not be chronically suicidal and yet everyone's telling me that I should be fine because I have a mother that loves me, a roof over my head and food in my belly, and then I should be okay. For better or for worse, I couldn't stay silent about not being okay.
And so when I'm not okay, I really listen to it and I really try to figure out what is at the root of not being okay. And if there's something in my capacity to change, I'm gonna do it. I've just learned about the Enneagram tri type, you know, having basically one, I know some people do, uh, don't into it, but the thing that made a lot of sense to me is, my tri type being a 3 8 7, and that's
all of the aggressive forward, action oriented types. So that's just how I roll through the world. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
What was your, original core Enneagram type again? Three. Three. Yeah, makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah. Self preservation three.
Yeah. So, for those who know the Enneagram who are listening to this podcast, that actually makes total sense that you just went, oh, I think I'm done with this journey, and I'd like to end it.
That sounds very self preservation three to me. Yep. Good for you. Good for you. Yeah. Thank you. Because I think it's interesting to explore the topic of completing something that you've built where you were, well, and actually we haven't even gotten into the experience you were having of , whether there was isolation mm-hmm.
In that experience of running it. Let's talk first about that. I mean, you closed it because it sounds like you were overburdened. Right. Mm-hmm. And that it just was no longer feeding you.
Well, I sold it. Didn't close it.
Yes. Yeah. Yes. Apologies. That's that's correct. No, it's okay.
You closed your own experience of Yes, I did. You sold it, which is much preferable. So what was your experience with being in leadership? I mean, you're a therapist among therapists. Yeah. And yet you are running the business you've built and are running the business that, that employs them basically, right?
Mm-hmm. They were your employees, correct? Yes.
Well, it started out as contractors because that's just what everybody was doing at the time. I think part of the problem is I didn't see myself as a leader when I first started it because I, like many therapists have been harmed by power, and so wanted to flatten the hierarchy, and unfortunately, that's just not possible.
Once you're signing somebody's paychecks, whatever relationship you have with them, you have power. And it took me several years to recognize what that meant. Once I was like, oh, I'm a boss. I should act like a boss. That's when it became even more lonely, I think. Mm-hmm. When I allowed myself to understand why the separation was necessary, and I was probably misusing my relationship with some of my employees to try to get that loneliness need quenched.
Mm. Um, then in my head was like, okay, I'm a business owner. I'm a boss. I'm fucking lonely. I had already hired a consultant, so I had been using her support, but I built a network, a small network. We called ourselves the badass practice owners, and we still talk all the time, are utilizing each other for support, and bouncing ideas off one another.
So we were meeting once a month and just talking about how hard it was. And, the uniqueness of being lonely in this world, and I definitely would not have survived being a practice owner without those women. That was crucial. And I, I've realized since then that that is a pattern of mine, that when I feel isolated in something, I go find the people and I wrangle them up and bring them around me because I don't wanna be alone.
Because you're a leader and so you create Right. What you wanna be a part of. Right. Yep. I'm curious if you're willing to share more about this and No is okay, obviously. Yeah.
Yeah.
You said that you noticed you were trying to use your relationship with your employees mm-hmm.
To help fill that loneliness.
Mm-hmm.
What did that look like?
I mean not putting myself in the box of employer boss. I was just trying to be friends with my employees and I don't think I did anything wildly inappropriate, but I definitely did not respect what my power position was in that relationship.
And so in that way I caused harm. And I remember, 'cause there was a period of time where I opened another business 'cause I had a business partner. He turned out to be full of shit and I got really screwed over by that. But I had tripled my staff 📍 and that was the hardest period of business ownership for me I was
literally failing at everything because I had tripled my staff. I had quadrupled my workload and I completely burnt myself out 100% inside and out. And I remember my husband and I were supposed to go on a weekend trip and our dog was sick and I was in no shape to keep working. And so he's like, you take it, you, you go to the hotel, you do the thing.
And I remember driving and I get to the hotel and there's this beautiful bathtub in the middle of the room and the water comes from the ceiling. Mm. And I remember thinking, trigger warning, for suicidal ideation. But I remember thinking I could slip my wrists and be in this bathtub and no one will find me until Monday.
Mm-hmm. And I've recognized as an adult that my suicidal ideation is a cue that I have backed myself into a corner. That I feel like there's no way out of. And so when I'm suicidal now, I say, oh, it's time to get help because I can't see the solution here. Mm-hmm. And I know that there's gonna be somebody on the outside who can.
And so that's why I put myself into treatment in 2020 as well, because I couldn't see the solution for the pain that I was in.
Mm-hmm. And
knew I needed somebody else with fresh eyes and you know, a career in this to really help me sort myself out.
Yeah. Thank you again for being willing to share that. It's a thing that we still get afraid of talking about, but mm-hmm. I think suicidal ideation is a lot more common than people wanna realize. Oh, yeah. I mean, take it from two, you know, one therapist and one former therapist. Right. Like it comes up.
Mm-hmm.
And it is that feeling like you can't escape the Yeah.
The torment that you have co-created in your life. Right. I mean, sometimes it's that you're actually being tormented, but we're not talking about those cases. We're talking about, the situations where, again, we'll say trigger warning, I had a, a day where I had some suicidal ideation and it was because I was running my own business and I was not making enough money.
Mm-hmm. Chronically, I was recovering from a divorce. I had made decisions during the marriage to do things that were going to create a certain career. And then once I didn't have that financial support of being in that partnership, I was really screwed.
Yeah.
Um, and that was a hell of my own making.
Right, right. I mean, there were circumstances that didn't support me, but I, I co-created that experience and mm-hmm. I also didn't see a way out. Everything I could think of resulted in the same circumstance over and over, and that's the place Yeah. Where, that plus coming down off of a benzodiazepine that I got administered at the er.
Yeah. Which I had never taken. Oh, wow. They were like, we think you're having an anxiety issue, even though what I came in for was a GI issue, but I, I don't think they were wrong. Wow. But yeah, my system was like, oh, okay. We we're fine. And then it came outta my system and it was like, wow, not fun.
Well, we shouldn't, let's just not be here. Yeah. That, like, that doesn't seem to matter. Mm-hmm. So. I think it's really important that we distinguish between the brain being like, I'm just trying to find a way out of pain. Exactly. And an actual desire to start taking action. Like, yes. I wanna kind of normalize that.
Yes. That suicidal ideation is fairly common and doesn't mean that a person is actively suicidal. Yep. It does mean that they are backed into a corner. Yep. And they don't really know how they're gonna get out. Yep, exactly. I love your story as really, a really good way of thinking about it.
Like good advice for people. If this is something you're experiencing in kind of a intense way,
yeah,
it's a sign. You need to get somebody else in there to help you find your way out. Exactly.
Yeah. And I even think so many therapists are afraid of suicidal ideation if they haven't experienced it themselves.
Hmm. I
mean, somebody was posting about it on Instagram not too long ago , about them just as a lay person experiencing suicidal ideation and how different therapists had responded to it over the years and why it is that we respond. Some people will respond with a safety contract or, you know, whatever it is, and Right.
Of course. 'cause there's liability. 'cause we are in a litigious society. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But really, anybody who's experienced it and come to the other side of it is, is gonna come to exactly what you just said. That it's like you feel stuck. Mm-hmm. You don't see the way out, and it just feels easier to just stay asleep than mm-hmm.
To try to figure it out by yourself. And yeah, there's so much shame, I think. About having it, that people might not wanna be honest about it, but yeah, I, I have no problem talking about it because I, I do think more people need to recognize that they're not alone in this. Yeah. Especially high pressure leaders.
This is probably why lawyers and dentists have the highest rate of suicide. Mm-hmm. I think the two professions are the highest. They have a lot of demands on them. And I was asking my dentist about it actually. 'cause I was like, why I didn't understand dentists. He's like, well a lot of them are in private practice.
Mm-hmm. We don't get taught how to run businesses either. Wow. We have a lot of people who don't wanna be here, don't wanna pay to be tortured. Right. And so it just becomes really stressful. And obviously the stress in law firms is just out of this world. So it makes a lot of sense that you would not wanna be here if you have a stressful life.
Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. And, then you're in a profession where you're supposed to present, just like therapists really too.
Mm-hmm. But
maybe dentists and lawyers even more, because at least therapists, yeah. We can do some personal disclosure or some vulnerability if we're mm-hmm. Trained in that way, or, feel like it's appropriate.
Mm-hmm. Although,
I think a lot of therapists probably don't. A lot of therapists feel like they have to keep up this veneer of I have it all together. When in reality they're just like doctors and nurses who chronically smoke. Like they know it's bad for them. Right. But nobody here is perfect.
Yeah. You know, I just, had an article published in Psychotherapy Networker that is about. What if we shifted the training for therapists to really center our own healing process?
Mm-hmm.
And have that be part of just our general, professional development. Because people are not okay right now, period.
Mm-hmm. And therapists especially. I think the demand during COVID was so great. I don't think most therapists' nervous systems recovered after that. It's just like nurses and doctors. 100%. There's never been
a recovery and, yeah. So I went to a program that centered our personal development as our therapy.
See, I, it was so great. Did you go to Naropa? Naropa. Where'd you go? No, but similar. It was a, a program called Leadership Institute of Seattle, which I don't think exists anymore. Uh, it was accredited through Bastyr University at the time, Uhhuh that I was there and. That's what they did.
They were like, we are not the most clinical program, but out of everyone training in the Seattle area, our students are the ones who are the most ready to be in the chair.
Boom. That's it. That's it.
Yep. 'cause it's relationship. It doesn't matter that, you know.
Yes. 8,000 practice modalities. It matters. Do you know who you are? Yes. And can you hold that center and the container for the person who's in the chair?
Yep, precisely.
Let's get into your personal ledger, because when you're at the top, no one sees your balance sheet of burdens.
But here we like to ask our guests to open their private ledger and share a couple of things from it. Exactly. Thank you for the sound effect. Could you share with us one cost that you paid for being in leadership? Ooh, just one. You can do more than one if you
want. I don't know if this is one, but the thing that I compare it to is I specifically decided not to have children because the trauma and the baggage that I thought I would bring to parenthood was like, I didn't wanna learn certain lessons
through having a child need to, I don't know, be the fall guy for that. And I learned all those lessons as a practice owner. Basically being shown aspects of myself Yeah. That I probably never would've seen. That again, this idea of power, mm. You know, having misuses of power, causing harm to people.
I like to think of myself as a good person who only does good things and you know when you Right. I know, yes, halo, but I made mistakes that felt so painful to have hurt people. With my own ignorance or my own lack of awareness of certain things, that kind of kick in the gut. It's not one thing, it's a whole host of things, but that's sort of my takeaway in terms of the ledger.
I actually, fun side fact, had a limited edition podcast before we even called it podcasting back in 2006.
Mm.
I called it Emotions in Your Small Business. And I did like 10 episodes on something that was called Blog Talk Radio. Back in the day, I still, I still have the, the audio files for that because I was like, wow, there's lots of business books, but nobody told me that going into business would bring up all of my internal shit.
Yes. Wow. Yes, and people need to know this. Absolutely. Yeah.
And having employees, did you ever have employees? No, I've just had contractors. Yeah. It having employees felt like a whole other thing and a level of responsibility that felt very much like, I did not want to do this as a parent. Now I put myself in a position to do this as a boss, and that's part of why I ended up in treatment was the weight I was putting on myself that I was
making myself carry that was probably more codependent and unnecessary because of the way that I thought I was supposed to
show up as a leader. Right. That makes sense. Tell us one invisible asset that you didn't realize you had at the time.
Uh, fearlessness. Fearlessness is probably the wrong word, but I generally I'm going to act whether I have fear or not, and I didn't realize how much fear stops people from doing hard things. I know I'm not the only one, but , more unique to me than it is to most therapists apparently.
Yeah. I, I agreed. When I first was in business for myself, learning how to run a business. I hadn't finished my therapy training yet. I was still in grad school. I had started a side business teaching people how to write professionally.
Yeah, I have a master's in poetry also already, and a, a few people who were in my program were like, you know, you could get paid to help people with that. I was like, really? Yeah. And I remember the first time somebody gave me a hundred dollars for an hour of my time to help him improve his written communication for his new job.
I was like, wow. I felt like, oh, you know? And so I started a side business while I was in grad school 'cause I had to quit my full-time job in order to do my supervision and internship and stuff like that. I spent a year learning all about being in business, going to all kinds of workshops, and I looked around at everyone that I was in school with and was like, these people do not have the same gumption and determination that I do.
I didn't call it that at the time, but I was like, these therapists are less outgoing, less extroverted, less leadership oriented, most of them Right. Than I am. And that's no shade, right? Like if any, any anybody that I went to school with is listening to this.
This is not a slam on you. It's just, it just felt like an honest assessment of our Right. Different characterizations. I felt like I was already a bit of an outsider in that program.
Mm-hmm. And
looking back years later, I'm like, yeah, I really was. I was not a typical therapist. Um, so I, are you an eight?
I am an eight. Yeah. I'm an Enneagram eight. Yeah. And I was probably the only one there who was, yeah. A lot of therapists I think are twos and fours I think is typical. And fives probably. Yeah. Yeah, , for those who don't know the Enneagram, this is gonna make no sense at all. Yeah. You can always go to my website at RachelAlexandria.com slash.
Tapping for Your Type. And there's a section there about learning about the Enneagram, so Yeah. But you can also just Google it and learn more about this personality type system that really helps understand people's nature, their energy and their motivations. Mm-hmm. Um. I, I actually created a weekend workshop to teach people in my program how to start a business and I brought in like eight guest speakers on different topics like marketing.
Of course you did website and it was amazing and no one from my class signed up. I was so heartbroken. Like I got people,
I
lost money putting it on. It was at this really nice retreat space. It was amazing. I had one friend who came for free and was my photographer and she was like, this is incredible, like surprised.
And I was like, why are you surprised? Yeah. It didn't occur to me I just didn't understand then how much people don't see what we're doing. They're just looking at their own life. I was like, yeah, I've been telling you about this. Like yes, of course. It's incredible. I, of course it's really good.
Do you know me? So, and then I had trauma about putting on workshops for about 10 years, but Oh, I bet I got over it. I got over it. Yeah. So. Yeah, I, I hear what you're saying. A lot of therapists are not built like you and I.
Mm-hmm.
And this is not a judgment. They have other qualities that you and I don't have.
Yep. There's people who, can sit and really absorb like, there's people who can see 20 or 30 clients a week. That's not me. It's never been me, probably never will be me. Same. Um, I'm much more of a challenge and sharp reflection kind of practitioner.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway, you saying that a lot of people in that profession have a lot of fear makes sense to me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it was just the fear that kept them from joining 'cause I was like, there's all these speakers, they will teach you how to run a private practice.
Yep. Because you're right. Nobody in therapy school learns how to do it. Nobody in dentistry or orthodontist school learns how to do it. Yep. Somebody could absolutely make a good business out of providing regular short workshops, giving people the basics that they need to know, even just about taxes.
Like you're gonna need to have this and that, and the other thing put together, here's the licenses you need to apply for. Yep. So obviously that's a thing I can go off on. Tell us in your private ledger, one investment that you're making now for your wellbeing and your soul.
I meditate daily, which is non-negotiable.
I, I signed up for a TM transcendental meditation and paid like a thousand dollars for a weekend thing, and I was like, God damn it, I'm getting my fucking money's worth. And that was eight years ago, and I've meditated every day since. So I think I got my money's worth now, but I'm hooked.
Wow, that's amazing.
How
long do you
meditate
for?
20, anywhere between 18 and 22 minutes usually. And I, I feel like I'm cheating 'cause I always listen to binaural beats, which
cheating.
Right. But sometimes, like today I was sitting there and I was thinking the whole time, but I know that the binaural beats are working their magic while I'm thinking about other things.
Mm-hmm. So that's, yeah, that's, that's one thing I do
Nice in this day and age, spending 20 minutes without looking at anything, reading or mm-hmm. You know, ingesting any kind of spoken content at all.
Mm-hmm.
I think is is remarkably restorative for your brain. As a fellow practitioner, I'm gonna give you the stamp of approval, not that you need mine, but Yeah.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna co-sign and say, yes, that is still meaningful. People think that meditation has to be thinking about nothing. Right. And it's not successful if you're not doing that and Right. That's not true. Right. It just needs to be making space. Yep. It's just making space to hear yourself. Yep. And to, let thoughts occur without becoming reactive to them. Without attaching to them and furthering them, but just noticing them like, oh,
mm-hmm.
That's what I'm thinking now. Oh, huh. That's where that went.
Interesting.
Mm-hmm. Without being
like, yeah, what about that? Now I have to solve this problem.
Sometimes I do do that while I'm sitting there, but can happen again. Yep. It's, can I tell you the other thing that I do? I color with sparkle pens.
Yes. So I don't know if you can tell the sparkles, but this is a tarot book. Awesome. And they're all sparkly. And I have them, like, I have them hanging on my wall in my office and I have some on my front door, so I color. I love it. Yeah, I love it.
I really want to love coloring. Yeah. And I think if I'm doing it with other people, I do, but there's something about it where my brain rebels and is just like, I would just rather draw.
Even though I really wanna be into coloring. That's funny. I don't do, I've bought books and I'm like, I'm not doing it. Well send them to me 'cause I will do them. Okay. Noted. Noted. You wanna, you wanna get on Sarah's good side, send her really awesome coloring books. Yeah. , I do love the meditative practice of crafting.
I have done things where I draw little colorful robots on the backs of dominoes, uh, inspired by Bot Joy is an art program. you can look it up.
He started and he leaves little, little drawn bots everywhere he, he launched. That's so cute. He told us about it at, World Domination Summit and everyone got a little colorful bot and they can be like a little bot that you can take with you into surgery. 'cause it's a little guy to help you be courageous, you know?
Yeah. Okay, so last two questions. What do you wish more leaders had permission to say out loud?
I don't know, and please help. Mm-hmm.
Simple as that. Yeah, I hear those often, like I ask this question of every guest and I don't know, is a common refrain. Please help is a little bit of a new one.
Yeah, when you start a business, you think that you have to solve all the problems, right?
And so it can be hard to think about asking for help. And I've been in the space where I sometimes forget, oh yeah, there's a person who knows how to do website things that I don't know how to do. Why don't I go ask them? I literally was torturing myself. Earlier this summer, 'cause I built this new platform.
I didn't build it. I had somebody build it and I was struggling with understanding how it worked and I was also working on a spiritual practice of surrender and did not put those two things together until I threw a temper tantrum. And the next morning I woke up and I was like, oh, I need to surrender and ask for help.
Mm-hmm. And then I got help and it was better.
Mm-hmm. The number of times I have been on my knees mm-hmm. With the divine just being like, I, I don't know how to do this. Right. Please, please, please do something. Please help me. Please show me the way. Right. And you know, from a a life school perspective, I think the majority of why that was happening was partly to get me into the practice of surrender.
Yeah. '
cause it was real hard. Yep. Well, especially as an eight, I can totally understand that. Yeah. Especially as an eight. Mm-hmm. I think leaders in general don't like the practice of surrender. I mean, we got into doing what we're doing because we felt like we could do it better than other people or because no one was doing it.
Yep. It's hard to then be like, and I need to not do everything because I can't and I'm not as good at it. Right. Before our last question, I wanna find out if people listen to this and they resonate with your story, if they're, feeling drawn to maybe working with you 'cause you are a practicing therapist.
Um, I'm not taking
clients.
Okay. I am only taking
consulting clients. Okay. So if you are a therapist leader and you want to work on that sort of stuff, that's what I do now. Yeah. I have clinical clients, but I'm not taking anymore. That's a very tiny part of what I do now.
Okay, so if you're a therapist, or a practice owner mm-hmm.
And you want help with business and marketing,
business leadership development, and with practices more the people part of it, if you're struggling with your staff and retention and how, to get people to show up and do the things they need to do, that sort of stuff.
Nice.
Okay.
How did they get ahold of you? HeadHeartBizTherapy.com,
BIZ. head heart biz therapy. Okay.
Mm-hmm. Is
that the main way you would prefer people get in contact is through your website? Yep. Absolutely. Yep. Alright.
And you can follow my podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Conversations With a Wounded Healer.
Wherever fine podcasts are sold. Wherever you're listening to this, you can just hop on over and look up that one. Yep. It'll be in the show notes too. Alright. So let's open the time machine. Ooh. We're gonna, bring the time machine in. The door is open and you can go back in time.
Oh shit.
To any
point in your life and say something to that younger version of yourself. Where would you go and what would you say?
Wow.
It would probably be somewhere in my teen years when I wouldn't have been able to put my finger on it being suicidal ideation. But it was definitely a chronic, I don't belong. I don't know where I fit in. People hated me in school. I didn't like my family and I, I would want her to know that the things that are setting her apart now in a bad way, she would be rewarded for later not to let go of those things and to know that it is gonna get better.
Nice.
Well, we'll send that back in time right now. Thank you so much for coming on the show with me.
Thanks so much for having me. It's so good to just chat again.
Yeah, same.
📍 Thanks for listening to Lonely At the Top. If today's conversation resonated for you, I hope you'll give yourself permission to pause even just for a moment and check in with what you might be carrying silently. You don't have to hold it all alone. I work with high performers and leaders who wanna clean up their secret messes.
You can learn more and book a chat with me at RachelAlexandria.com. If you know another leader who needs to hear this podcast, please send it their way because yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to stay that way.